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Christian prayer excludes non-Christians
Monday, September 28, 2009 5:55 AM PDT
Including "Christian" prayer, namely prayer that ends "in Jesus' name," in government-sponsored events excludes anyone who isn't Christian.
Many other religions, in addition to non-believers and secular people, do not pray. You are excluding almost a quarter of the population when you do this. This amounts to nothing less than a form of religious bigotry.
I strongly urge the Lodi City Council to uphold the Constitution and the law of the land by rejecting the practice of government-sponsored Christian prayer before meetings. Why not consider instead an option that is inclusive of everyone — a "moment of silence"? A moment of silence allows everyone the freedom to do whatever it is that provides them support and meaning going into the important business of managing a city. Christians can pray to Jesus, Muslims can pray to Mohammed, Buddhists can meditate, atheists can reflect ... you get the idea.
May I bring to your attention,U.S. Constitution, Article VI:
"The Senators and Representatives ... and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
U.S. Constitution, First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ... "
Snyder v. Murray City Corp., 159 F.3d 1227 (10th Cir. 1998) (en banc), cert. denied, 526 U.S. 1039 (1999):
The Tenth Circuit Court ruled that a government body violates the U.S. Constitution's Establishment Clause (set by the First Amendment) when a legislative prayer "proselytizes a particular religious tenet or belief, or that aggressively advocates a specific religious creed, or that derogates another religious faith or doctrine." Because the court believed that Snyder's prayer proselytizes his religious views and disparages others, the city was allowed to reject it.
Mai Dao-Horton
Mount Hermon
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Lee wrote on Oct 5, 2009 10:35 AM:
Now that's funny! And oh so true! "
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:50 PM:
I can make reasoned arguments, and state facts, but my only response will be nose wriggling and tail wagging. Adorable, but useless.
So, you are correct. I simply can't win.
Don't get me wrong, I love my dog, I just wouldn't put her in charge of much more than NOT taking a crap on my rug. "
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:34 PM:
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:33 PM:
giggles!
note: my opinion is based upon your blogs. "
veritas wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:31 PM:
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Sep 28, 2009 2:03 PM:
" Giggles! "
Giggles? That's your rebuttal? Debating you is as about as useful as debating Sarah Palin.
It seems, when pressed, you simply become increasingly adorable. "
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 1:25 PM:
jeff wrote on Sep 28, 2009 1:06 PM:
“There is no maxim, in my opinion, which is more liable to be misapplied, and which, therefore, more needs elucidation, than the current one, that the interest of the majority is the political standard of right and wrong”
“In Republics, the great danger is, that the majority may not sufficiently respect the rights of the minority”
“Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history”
james madison "
davidd wrote on Sep 28, 2009 12:48 PM:
Are you not aware that Lodi has other faiths and religions as well?
We are fortunate to have a growing Muslim population, Jewish population (who attend two synagogues in Stockton), and Buddhists, none of whom pray to Jesus.
We also have many denominations of Christianity, some of whom are strong supporters of the separation of church and state.
Even if we accepted your suggestion that majority rules, I think you would hard-pressed to find your 85%.
Considering that recent statistics show that 20% of the country is a non-believer (atheist, agnostic, etc), you've got a ways to go. "
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Sep 28, 2009 12:48 PM:
Who is it that you are accusing of spin here?
Facts are important. If you state an opinion, you can say whatever the hell you want. If you state a fact that isn't true, then you are a liar. "
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 12:27 PM:
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:53 AM:
I doubt very much the Christian percentage is that high.
Also, even if 99% of the citizenry were Christian, it doesn't make it right to exclude the other 1%.
In fact, the constitution was designed specifically to prevent that kind of abuse by majority. "
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:51 AM:
What is the source of your data? "
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:39 AM:
Americans should never be silenced, rather we should always support the free exercise of religion and free speech. "
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:16 AM:
Our council should represent all citizens, regardless of their beliefs.
Please visit LodiUnited.org if you support a moment of silence or the elimination of sectarian prayer in our meetings. "
jeff wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:10 AM:
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 10:54 AM:
wtf wrote on Sep 28, 2009 9:39 AM:
anthropis wrote on Sep 28, 2009 8:38 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.