" Gator wrote:

And thats a bad thing???? "

-Absolutely not. I see you're catching on. "

" in a socialist system the government would be running every thing. Even educating the doctors to work in the hospitals.... oh wait, medical schools are supported by tax dollars.
You mean we pay to educate the people who overcharge us? "

" Brian wrote on Sep 7, 2009 4:05 AM:

" It seems to me Obama may be unknowingly
throwing the trial lawyers under the bus. And thats a bad thing???? "

" Doctors and patients who want nothing to do with the government will, I hope, create their own parallel world where medical care is paid for as a quality product, not a mediocre "right" handed out by the government, worth little or nothing. This will be all that's left of freedom and innovation in the medical profession on planet Earth. I'm not sure how well it will work, but it's really our only hope.

I am convinced that our current Congress and President would never permit this, but a future Congress and/or President, less inclined to command-and-control socialism, might insist on it. Assuming we continue to have elections and freedom of dissension, that is.

Now more than ever: Stay healthy! "

" http://www.drhurd.com/index.php/Daily-Dose-of-Reason/Health-Care-Reform/health-care-underground.html

Did you know that the Canadian government spends over $1 billion each year for Canadians to receive medical treatment in the United States?

If national health insurance is so great, then why must the Canadian government, which provides national health insurance, rely on the American private sector to handle much of its medical care?

How much more scarce will health care in Canada become once the U.S. government has totally taken over health care in the United States--something being legislated (although not debated) as I write this?

And: Where will Canadians, to say nothing of Americans, go for medical treatment once there is no private sector in health care left anywhere in the world?

I comfort myself with one last remaining hope: That in the United States, there will at least be a private sector of medical care--where profit and trade are still allowed--as with private schools. At least those who can manage to save the money will have the option to get genuine health care, at a price. Cont. "

" We may not need malpractice reform after all if Obamacare passes. But I'm not going to hold my breath. "

" It seems to me Obama may be unknowingly
throwing the trial lawyers under the bus. "

" http://www.drhurd.com/index.php/Daily-Dose-of-Reason/Health-Care-Reform/but-what-will-the-lawyers-do.html

I wonder how universal health coverage will sit with trial lawyers who make money in the malpractice business? Once all Americans are covered by government insurance, how will malpractice claims be paid? Doctors will have even lower incomes than before. Of course, to the socialists who now run things, that's a good feature of socialized medicine since, according to them, money is the root of all evil, at least in medicine. As it is, malpractice premiums are skyrocketing to where many doctors must close up shop. Once all or most medicine is public, like most schools are public, will trial lawyers sue the government on behalf of patients? It will be interesting to watch it unfold, if and when government becomes the insurer of everybody. I know that in Canada and Europe, malpractice claims are reportedly lower--and they have universal health care (with little or no private sector care) in those countries, as well.

One wonders: What will the trial lawyers do when there's no money left for which to sue? The new American credo of "spreading the wealth" has many consequences.

-Is Obama for his plan given his loyalty to lawyers? "

" With out trying to sound like a wise A** they do what they do because the
electorate refuses to hold them accountable. If they feel their not accountable then that’s a free ride to do what ever they want. If people
would for once stand up and Re-call or impeach crooked politicians, Judges
City council and County supervisors you will get their attention. Vote in big
numbers. There is no reason not to vote none what so ever. Americans should be embarrassed by their lousy record on Voting. The Iraqi’s and the
Afghans show how important voting is even if it means getting your finger
cut off…. "

" I'd give 4 million just to be able to micturate without it hurtung. "

" The main problem with SS and Medicare is the misuse Graft and corruption
of both. When I turned 65 I went into the local SS office in lodi at 7:30 am
and the place was full by 7:45 am. 3 of us were the only ones fluent in
English. It doesn’t take a Rocket scientist to see there people taking advantage of a system that they really aren’t entitled. There are people out
there that milk the system for all it’s worth who are fully able to work but
would rather not . It’s the same with welfare there are whole families that have made a career out of welfare. There are those in the medical profession
who make a practice of over billing and running test that are not required.
To be very blunt there is nothing wrong with SS, Medicare and welfare as it
was intended. No it’s a group of slime balls that have corrupted it and put
It into the mess it’s in. And guess what You and I foot the bill…. "

" What is it, you're trying to say Sven13. Pull you head out of the weeds -- the argument is up here. "

" There are many opportunities to invest on line on your own but it takes special attributes. I am a trader of the stock market right from my home pc. "

" As for scam artist a couple of gentleman friends watch out for me. Mr. Smith And Mr. Wesson… "

" Well like dogs I have an excellent retirement from PG&E and I paid into SS
For 32 years there and 11 from Pacific Bell/Cingular wireless and 4 in the Navy. That comes out to 47 years.. My wife’s Retirement is excellent also.
along with investments life is good. Why?? Because I listened to my father
who said if your going to work for a living work for a company that pays
well and has benefits and take what ever they offer. We pay for SS and you
will pay for Medicare. Question Arne just what are you going to do with out it?? Duh!! There are to many people who can’t even afford that.. Never made Good money never saved any money what will you do put em in the
Ovens!! A country’s first reasonability is to it’s people. The rest of the world
Comes in last… "

" Rhodie:
There certainly is a large number of Americans who are savy in investments. Most are not. These are the people that scam artists would target and successfully relieve the retirees of all their retirement.
I talked with many people at the time who thought that private investment would liberate them from government dependence in their later years. All of them said they could do a better job investing the money on their own.

A lot of these people are now downsized, underemployed or just flat out of work with a mortgage many of them can't afford. If they could I'm sure they would pull whatever money they had invested out to help them survive now, but would have nothing at retirement.

I left my investments alone, but took a big hit as did most people. I've got time for it to go back up.

If your investment drops to $0, there is nothing to recover. I'm glad your parents did alright. "

" Rhodie, well said. We are too old to start over, so we will just slog along with what we have coming in on a monthly basis. Without SS and MC, which by the way we pay into, we might be living in a cardboard box under I-5. However, thanks to both, along with an outstanding retirement plan, my wife and I live very comfortably.

It is my hope that Bo`s owner has a new residence after the 2012 elections.

Ansen, same tune, different lyrics. "

" anthropis wrote " I don't know rhodie, do you know anyone that is better off today than he was when bush was president?"

We are, but that is because we aren't depending on the government to take care of us, we're doing it on our own. One of the things my smart wife did was round about the middle of Feb, we pulled half our (bank) savings and put it into our stock portfolio (more than doubling it). Two months ago, for the first time in a couple of years we saw growth in our stock values.

My brother (a cop) is doing better as well. But he is following the same program as I am. In fact most people I know who are living debt free are doing pretty well today. "

" Rhodie, the stock market has nothing to do with government or stimulus plans, it is investors and traders through out the world who determine its ups and downs by bidding and selling. The stock market bottomed on March 9, 2009 and has made a nice move upwards since then. If you have a stake you can make money in the market but your gains are taxable. "

" I don't know rhodie, do you know anyone that is better off today than he was when bush was president? "

" you know sparky, the whole thing defies reason, obama claims to be adding 46 million people to the medical system and at no cost to the taxpaper, and where on earth will the doctors come from to treat these people and at no cost to the taxpayer at that. pure insanity or maybe he is just a big time liar! "

" "Know of anyone who invested that has done well over the last two years?"

My parents.

While their stock portfolio dropped but they didn't really lose much because they didn't pull $$ out. When stocks drop, you only lose money when you pull the $$ out. Two years ago their portfolio was almost to an exciting level for them. It dropped to about half last Christmas but is almost back to the level they want.

This goes into what I said before. People like me, who will never see a dime of SS should have the option of NOT paying into a broken system but instead use that money to build our own retirement free of government meddling. "

" Good point, Anthropis. Maybe someone can explain how obama is going to cut medicare by $500 billion and maintain the same level of care to the elderly. Rationing and end of life counseling will be on its way for our seniors. "

" those who put their trust in the present administration must know that the Obama health care plan will cut medicare drastically, that is the reason senior citizens at the town hall meetings are so concerned and involved? "

" had all the funds collected for social security been deposited into a private trust fund, rather than the governments black hole, the program would be solvent today. "

" Rhodie: I didn't say that they won't be broke in a couple of years anyway, just impliying that if we had done what President Bush had proposed, they would probably be broke sooner. Know of anyone who invested that has done well over the last two years?

And thanks to mrrantraves (aka: stantaves) for clarifying the liberal position incorrectly again. How or why someone thinks they strengthen their argument by using the word left is beyond me.

I'm not in the SS system so I will never see a dime from my 36 quarters of contributions. "

" sparky, the left believes that it is "unfair" for so many of us to have such high standards of living while the rest of the world has to struggle so much. They actually believe that wealth is not created, but instead is taken somehow from the struggling masses; They just can't seem to understand that high standards of living come to those who place high standards upon themselves. So what do they do? They throw in with a bunch of hucksters who promise to bring "fairness" back to the system, but the "fairness" never manifests itself. It's an old tale, and try as they may the end is always the same: the producers win, and the crybabies cry. "

" sven31 wrote " How many retirees would now be broke if Bush had been successful in his attempt to privatize social security?"

How many retirees are going to be broke in a few years when SS is broke anyway? I'd much rather be in charge of my retirement $$ than the politicians and their financial "sense".

The couple of years after SS and MC fail where do you think that money is going to come from to payback those seniors who worked hard all thier lives with the government promise of paying for their retirement? Or, Sven, are you of the mindset that when the government needs more money all they need to do is prinit it?

I don't think I would do away with SS completely but I do think an opt out clause needs to be established so those of us in younger generations can save our own money for our own retirement. "

" How is it that social security and medicare are such great programs when they are both just a few years away from being bankrupt? I am paying into these socialistic programs and will most likely never see a dime from them. But then again, that is the liberal/socialist way-- take from those who have and give to those who have not. This is the greatest nation on earth (if you disagree, go find your dream country and leave us alone). Why are the democrats trying to give our freedom and liberty over to the total control of the federal government.

I believe most every American would like to see our health care system reformed. The democrats want to keep complaining that the republicans are against reforming it. Stop the lies. Democrats are the ones who wrote the entire bill HR3200 without allowing any input from republicans. Nearly every time a republican tries to add amendments to this bill in a bi-partisan effort, it is immediately rejected by the democrat majority. Stop the lies. Republicans want reform, not a government takeover like you want. "

" How many retirees would now be broke if Bush had been successful in his attempt to privatize social security? Thousands of scam artists would made out like bandits as older citizens turned over their SS accounts to them. The conservative response would have been something like "you have to be more careful who you do business with", as they skimmed the accounts themselves.
Another outstanding idea from the right in their efforts to get richer while the rest of us would have gotten poorer. "