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Prayer showdown
Two groups — one for prayer and one against — to hold rallies before Wednesday's City Council meeting
In an all-black outfit, Gordon James Klingenschmitt stood with his Bible in hand and quoted from both religious texts and the U.S. Constitution to prove that Jesus should be allowed in prayer at the Lodi City Council meetings.
The founder of the Colorado Springs, Co.-based The Pray In Jesus Name Project was standing in front of Carnegie Forum at a news conference he set up Monday.
Publicity is one of his organization's best tools to get the word out about their cause, and a prayer rally is planned for 6 p.m. Wednesday, Klingenschmitt said. The group also used an Internet campaign to collect 5,185 signatures on a petition advocating that the word Jesus remain in prayers. Of the signatures, 2,826 are from California.
"Jesus is not an illegal word. ... Now, an atheist's group is using the government's sword to tell me I can't pray in Jesus' name," Klingenschmitt said.
A former Navy chaplain, Klingenschmitt has been in the media in recent years for arguing with communities and the military about the use of Jesus in prayer.
As the only member of the public attending the news conference, Lodi resident David Diskin stood off to the side and listened.
A week ago, Diskin joined with a small group of residents called Lodi United to organize a "counter-rally" starting at 5:15 p.m. Wednesday. He stresses that the group will be made up of both atheists and people from a variety of faiths who share the belief that the council should not pray before meetings.
He is the group's unlikely spokesman, having never identified with the Republican or Democratic parties or led a political citizens' group before. But for him, it's important to let people know that they can speak out.
"We want to show the people of Lodi and the Lodi City Council that there are people who have strong opinions. ... People might not come Wednesday because they are worried what their family, colleagues or business partners would say, and I can sympathize," Diskin said.
Rallies at a glance
On Wednesday, two different groups will gather in front of Carnegie Forum to voice their opinions about prayer before Lodi City Council meetings.Prayer meeting
Main group involved: Pray In Jesus Name Project
When: 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. in front of Carnegie Forum
Counter-rally opposing prayers before council meeting
Main group involved: Lodi United
When: 5:15 p.m. to 7:15 p.m. in front of Carnegie Forum
News-Sentinel staff
Klingenschmitt and Diskin are on opposite ends of an argument over whether the council should enforce its "non-sectarian and non-denominational" prayer policy.
Both groups have decided to hold rallies Wednesday, even though the council will not be discussing the prayer policy.
For years, the council has allowed religious leaders to say Jesus' name in their prayers. The Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation challenged the practice in May and demanded the council enforce its own policy or face a lawsuit.
The challenge has set up a debate between those who believe the council should get rid of prayer completely and others who believe the council has gone too far by requesting that the name "Jesus Christ" be removed.
In Jesus' name
Klingenschmitt has been embroiled in controversy over the past years by taking his organization to various communities and pushing them to continue or reinstate policies that allow prayers to Jesus.
His crusade started in the military, when he said he was told he could not pray in the name of Jesus, he said.
But his story surrounding his struggles in the Navy is different than the story of his superior, retired Navy Captain Norman Holcomb, whom the News-Sentinel interviewed by phone Monday.
During his service, Klingenschmitt preached about hell at a sailor's funeral and protested the Navy's failure to meet a Jewish sailor's request for kosher meals, according to a January 2006 article in The Washington Post. The article also said he organized a group of Navy personnel who refused to attend a church service led by a gay minister during Fleet Week.
He led an 18-day hunger strike in December 2005 and January 2006 in front of the White House to require the Navy to allow him to pray in Jesus' name. But the Navy said it had no regulation against praying to Jesus and "has always encouraged every chaplain to pray according to his own individual faith during worship services," Navy spokesman Lt. William Marks said in the 2006 Post article.
As his commander for two years, Holcomb said Monday that Klingenschmitt's discharge had nothing to do with praying to Jesus. Holcomb described Klingenschmitt as untruthful, lacking military commitment and unwilling to abide by established rules and regulations.
Holcomb said Klingenschmitt was court martialed because he wore his Navy chaplain uniform to a political rally, after being warned that he would be violating military procedure, he said.
In September 2006, The Washington Post also reported Klingenschmitt was court martialed because he attended a political rally in uniform during March of that year. He was found guilty of a misdemeanor count of disobeying a lawful order in September 2006.
Klingenschmitt maintained he was at the event to offer public prayer and had written permission to wear his uniform when he is conducting "a bona fide worship service or observance," he said in the article. But military prosecutor Cmdr. Rex A. Guinn said the event was not a worship service or observance.
Klingenschmitt was then honorably discharged in 2007.
Holcomb said Klingenschmitt was always allowed to pray in Jesus' name, but many troops did not like him as a chaplain because he would incite the soldiers during his prayers, Holcomb said.
"If you are a chaplain in the military, you can't act like you are a preacher at a local church, because you have to take care of everybody, regardless of whether they believe what you do or not," Holcomb said.
From the military, Klingenschmitt founded The Pray In Jesus Name Project and has been to several states in the country to assist local people in fighting against groups trying to limit prayer, he said.
"We want Lodi to stick to its guns and allow religious freedom," he said.
SaveCalifornia.com, a statewide pro-family organization, is also throwing support behind Klingenschmitt's cause. The group heavily campaigned for Proposition 8, a ban on same-sex marriage that passed in November.
At the Monday news conference, president Randy Thomasson said the government should not interfere with a group's religious freedom.
"This is about Lodi, but it is also about America. ... If atheists are able to squash religious freedom in Lodi, they will be hungry to squash religious freedom in other cities," Thomasson said.
Another group, the Alliance Defense Fund, has also voiced support for keeping a policy that allows for uncensored prayers.
Local attorney Mark Bowman, who is a member of the fund, has sent a letter to the city offering to defend Lodi in court for free if the council adopts a prayer policy that does not restrict the content of the prayer.
"It is my hope that our city will not succumb to mere 'threats' to remove a practice that has enjoyed over two centuries of protection," Bowman said in a letter dated July 28.
Word of mouth opposition
While sitting outside Carnegie Forum, Diskin admits if his group had more time maybe they would have thought to also hold a news conference.
Diskin, whose day job is providing training on Microsoft Office, has never actively protested religion in government but has always felt there should be a separation of church and state.
He said Lodi United is depending on word of mouth, and he hopes the Wednesday rally will be the start of a group that opposes religion in government.
"When something comes up that is important to you, you tend to get on it right away," he said.
The rally will go from 5:15 to 7:15 p.m. and end with appetizers at Lodi Beer Company. Diskin said it is important to give the group time afterward to discuss, because many of them will be meeting for the first time.
His main objection to The Pray In Jesus Name Project is that they are going beyond supporting prayer.
"He doesn't want to just allow prayer, but he wants to bring Jesus into these meetings. ... Why would someone feel comfortable if they didn't believe that," Diskin said.
He imagines the group he is forming will exist even after the Lodi issue is solved, because it includes people from around the region, include Modesto, Sacramento and Turlock.
"There is no reason we can't lend our help to them when the time comes in their cities," Diskin said.
Contact reporter Maggie Creamer at maggiec@lodinews.com or read her blog at www.lodinews.com/blog/citybuzz.

Reader Feedback
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 10, 2009 5:16 PM:
If Bryan ever figures out what the word liberal really means, he/she might have a seizure. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 10, 2009 3:40 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 10, 2009 3:22 PM:
Bob Loblaw wrote on Aug 10, 2009 3:18 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 4:30 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 4:27 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 4:26 PM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 9, 2009 3:51 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 3:19 PM:
So I take it you don't believe, as it states on the Army website, that these internment camps not only exist but there are more in the making? "
Lodian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 2:23 PM:
voter wrote on Aug 9, 2009 1:34 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 1:20 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 1:17 PM:
Please tell us about your campaign
to round up the people who don't think like Obama to be put in internment camps.
http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=292
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106304 "
Lodian wrote on Aug 9, 2009 11:35 AM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 9, 2009 8:54 AM:
voter wrote on Aug 9, 2009 7:31 AM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 9, 2009 12:05 AM:
Robb wrote on Aug 8, 2009 10:06 PM:
What a load of crap.. come on people, think for yourselves... sheep.. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 7:50 PM:
voter: Here are more pictures from the rally.
http://www.facebook.com/photo_comments.php?id=105675112751#/album.php?aid=94989&id=105675112751
... "
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 6:30 PM:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41267439@N03/#photo3800429435
. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 6:28 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 6:26 PM:
Bryan: What in the world are you talking about? Are you okay? You are obsessed with farting. Are you in 6th grade? "
Brian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 12:17 PM:
If I happen to let one go at night
and my wife just happens to have the covers over her head, it's self induced on her part. "
voter wrote on Aug 8, 2009 11:51 AM:
" I don't give my wife dutch ovens and then force her to sleep in the doghouse
if she doesn't like it. "
You're implying that she somehow likes this treatment on occasion--you don't force her IF she doesn't like it. You two are quite a pair. "
Brian wrote on Aug 8, 2009 11:15 AM:
I don't give my wife dutch ovens and then force her to sleep in the doghouse
if she doesn't like it. "
voter wrote on Aug 8, 2009 8:25 AM:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41267439@N03/#photo3800429435 "
voter wrote on Aug 8, 2009 8:16 AM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 7, 2009 11:16 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2009 4:21 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2009 4:19 PM:
bug wrote on Aug 7, 2009 4:08 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2009 2:26 PM:
" As usual, lodian has nothing to offer other than the usual attacks on people she disagrees with. I'm still convinced
she makes her husband sleep in the doghouse because she refuses to put up with his criticism of her endless flatulence. "
Geez, it's sort of sad how Brian doesn't see that his own actions are exactly that of what he accuses others of doing. Classic projection. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 6, 2009 8:04 AM:
Brian wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:52 AM:
she makes her husband sleep in the doghouse because she refuses to put up with his criticism of her endless flatulence. "
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:16 PM:
stantaves wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:41 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:00 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:00 PM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:19 PM:
So we can conclude that you don't think I do not a have a cat and do not allow my cat to not go to these meetings? " "
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:04 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 5, 2009 3:01 PM:
Not buying your BS.
Mao's atheism had
nothing to do with his actions is about as logical as saying (radical theism had nothing to do with the crusades), a charge atheists are quick to not let society forget. "
linengray wrote on Aug 5, 2009 12:32 PM:
I think I will go back to my planet of "we are as crazy as you". And I am not taking passengers. "
stantaves wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 AM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2009 1:36 AM:
" brian do you not think that you can not learn to not put to many negatives in a sentence? "
LOL! Well said. "
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:57 PM:
I wouldn't call them "out there", and certainly not lump them into the same category as Mr Klingenschmitt. They are secular individuals who believe chuch should be separate from state. Their religious ideals, or lack thereof, are not at issue here. I welcome them to Lodi.
Brian, atheism means a non-theist. Why would my position on atheism preclude me from disapproving Mao's actions? His atheism had nothing to do with his actions, but that doesn't make it right. I fail to follow any of your logic.
lodimaestro, thanks for the kind words. Everyone who has contributed to our cause, especially those who will be at our rally Wednesday, are the ones who really deserve the credit.
For more information about Lodi United, please visit www.LodiUnited.org. "
jeff wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:10 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:09 PM:
yeah you wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:37 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:34 PM:
So we can conclude that you don't think it is not a foolish policy to not allow
prayer at these meetings? "
lodimaestro wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:18 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:44 PM:
So we can conclude that you harbor the belief that
atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for?
If this is the case then we must conclude that you don't have any ill will for Mao because his Atheism had nothing nothing to do with his motives as a Communist to slaughter millions?
Is this your position? "
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:37 PM:
" Mazie, I would not try to stop you, as I am a Christian myself, and fully support (and encourage!) your right to pray anywhere you see fit. It's your tactics and vitriol with which I disagree. Not effective, not healthy, not in the mold of Jesus. It gives all of us Christians a bad name, and I hope to disassociate others of us with the way that you go about expressing your views. "
jrs: Very well said! I completely agree. "
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:32 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:58 PM:
Anthropis, from your post you make it sound like Christ was the only person to die on a cross. For your info. that was the way of excuation in those times. Spartacus was, ( and yes there was a Spartacus ) and 3000 of his followers were crucified on the Arpinum Way, the road that lead to Rome and their bodies were left there to rot, with orders not to be taken down. According to Rome, Christ died for treason, life was rough in those times, no ACLU. "
shockedinlodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:16 PM:
Gordon James Klingenschmitt - Now for you. I will not waste words for you. You are insane. You talk of God and your words are nothing but hate. You are a hate seeker and will find it any way you can in the name of God. People like you turn people in to Atheists.
Both of you need to grow up. "
sooziesdad wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:01 PM:
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:54 PM:
You have been misled by the same propaganda that circulated through the US when we were at war with Russia.
Regardless, this is not an issue of atheism. It is an issue of tolerance, acceptance, and respect.
We cannot let our city council meetings make people feel unwanted or unwelcome. With prayer to a specific diety, they do. "
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:51 PM:
The issue that they were invited is the very reason we are rallying to begin with. It causes people to feel uncomfortable, and unwelcome.
We hope that the time can be replaced with a moment of silence. "
voter wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:28 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:59 PM:
all religons combined. A fact the anti-prayer kooks don't want to discuss. "
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:49 PM:
anayud wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:31 PM:
leah wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:24 PM:
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:19 PM:
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:04 PM:
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:43 PM:
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:42 PM:
"Would you like it if the city council came into your church on Sunday and interrupted the sermon with LUSD agendas, wastewater issues, etc. It's just unecessary and ridiculous!"
That was wonderful! Thank you, and I hope you'll be joining us Wednesday at 5:15.
More info at www.LodiUnited.org "
dogs4you wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:28 PM:
leah wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:25 PM:
Shocked: I'm in...but I might need a shot to go with that beer! "
justin wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:13 PM:
shockedinlodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:10 PM:
:) "
dogs4you wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:52 PM:
leah wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:49 PM:
leah wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:37 PM:
jbhiker wrote on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 PM:
4AStrongLodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 12:45 PM:
I don't think many people object to religion, if it is practiced without trying to restrict or enforce the rights of others. I, for one, am scared of what the Religious Fundamentalists in this Country are trying to achieve. "
linengray wrote on Aug 4, 2009 12:34 PM:
wtf wrote on Aug 4, 2009 12:27 PM:
But, anthropis, that does NOT mean freedom for you to shove your religion down everyone else's throats! ;) "
shockedinlodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 12:26 PM:
Well if there bringing Jesus, I am there.
Does this country have any tolerance for anything anymore? Does everything have to end in a lawsuit?
“ and end with appetizers at Lodi Beer Company.”
Can someone tell me what appetizers will be served? I need to know so I know who I will be supporting. Beer vs. the City Council Meeting….hmmm I just don’t know where I will end up. "
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:39 AM:
4AStrongLodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:21 AM:
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:11 AM:
anthropis wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:55 AM:
Religious Freedom or Religious Intolerance. "
4AStrongLodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:41 AM:
Stinkeypete wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:31 AM:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
Audi 5000 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:19 AM:
We can disagree with love and with respect for people of other faiths, but never are Christians ever to embrace ideology that is in direct opposition with the truth of God's word. We don't compromise the transcendent word of God for cultural acceptance, popularity, or religious "unity". "
glassparguy wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:03 AM:
With that said, Tiger, I agree with you 100%. If Muslims or Hindus or whoever want to throw a prayer in there, by all means go ahead. I am a Christian, but I have respect for all religions. I would personally be honored if someone from another faith prayed for me. And it has happened before. I'm from the melting pot known as San Jose so naturally I have many friends with many different faiths and lack thereof..lol. This seems like a huge waste of time to me. Don't we have more important things to worry about here? "
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:45 AM:
And, I would encourage you to check out some of the "prayer" that Mr Klingenschmitt has given in Jesus' name.
He has specifically prayed for harm to come to others. His website is full of anti-homosexual and anti-muslim remarks. "
tiger wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:19 AM:
Have people forgotten about respect? Just respect for others and their beliefs? So what if the majority are Christians? what if the majority was Muslim? would we condemn their prayers to Allah before meetings?? Don't need to rain hell on them. (pun not intended).
Praying for a good session, or just wisdom in general is NOT a problem, should not be a problem.
And this is just a silly argument between right wings and left wings who can't just leave each other well enough alone. "
4AStrongLodi wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:12 AM:
I'll there supporting David and Lodi United! "
wtf wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:57 AM:
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:53 AM:
wtf wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:51 AM:
davidd wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:51 AM:
jeff wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:49 AM:
jrs wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:39 AM:
jrs wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:36 AM:
Mazie wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:28 AM:
Mazie wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:27 AM:
jrs wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:22 AM:
Jenn H wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:47 AM:
I went to Klingenschmitt's website. It is filled with extremist views and hate speech. I was particularly offended by their campaign to urge Schwarzenegger to veto SB 572 which will at long last honor Harvey Milk.
Those whackjobs cannot be allowed to dictate what takes place in Lodi.
City Council Members: STICK TO YOUR POLICY AND DO NOT WAIVER. "
Mazie wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:22 AM:
uncle stinky wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:15 AM:
wtf wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:48 AM:
"We want Lodi to stick to its guns and allow religious freedom," [Klingenschmitt] said.
The irony of this guy's statement is that he wants "religious" freedom only as long as the religion practiced is his brand of religion....what about others?
Oh boy! Here we go again! LOL! "
Comments on this story are now closed.