" I ignored the whole thing. As a teenager I thought "what waste of money!" My father thought is was the greatest thing that ever happened to mankind. A different generation. "

" To Dogbark: Roof, Woof and Ruff. Come up to speed. "

" How mostly refreshing. Just scientific discussion of events of historical significance. Dogbarks you are correct on calling veratis with truth and maybe his/her comments were early in the discussion and did not know the direction it would take as it went no further, I'd let it lay as is.

If you get a chance go see the Hornet (CV/CVA/CVS 12) in Alameda. It's not crowded and may be the best kept secret in the bay area. It is huge but small by today's standards for the US Navy.
There are very few Essex class carriers left (Lexington (CV 16) in Texas and the Intrepid (CV ?) next to "Suley's" landing stip, the hudson river.

It hasn't got much in the way of static displays but the tours are good. Take a coat!

I recall the hull # and name of the ship were switched after the original Hornet (CV 8) was sunk and it's #12's name given to a later carrier.

Back to the tour, we had someone who served on intrepid and had many annecedotes he shared. Worth it. "

" veritas, there were at least 9 or 10 apollo missions during the years Obama was living with his grandparents in Hawaii.
We don't mind you listening to Rushannity, just stop believing what they say and then posting it here as truth.
or drop that moniker, sir or madam. "

" Mr. Dogbark,
Bean was the 4th man on the moon. Pete CONRAD (Apollo 12 commander) was the third. I got up early, very early, to watch CONRAD (aka "third man on the moon") and Bean (aka "4th man on the moon") moon walk. One of them ruined it with the camera. Very disappointing.

Carlos:
I think you may be right about the reduction of gravity meaning that pulling 3G's on the moon at liftoff (and I'm only guessing the numbers) would make lift off very comfortable. Using F=MA, guessing at the actual masses of the astronauts and the gravity on the moon and the amount of acceleration to leave the surface of the moon (9.3m/s/s on Earth), and again using general figures, 3Gs on the moon would be less than one G on Earth.

So, now that question is answered. Thanks for the heads up. "

" Sven that makes no sense. Apollo missions had three aboard, two would descend to the earth, so to leave out Bean just so your Adam spookiness works is absurd.

oh wait, Bean = garden = Eden. OK I figured it out. Wow! Spooky. "

" President Osama remembers the splash downs in the Pacific while he was living in Hawaii. Unfortunately, he was living in Indonesia at the time. Oooops. "

" Sven; you are right, the panning camera was Apollo 17, I was just responding to cogito and didn't mean to imply it was Apollo 11.
The RTLT (round trip light time) to the moon is about 2.5 seconds.
The lunar module was first referred to as the LEM (lunar excursion module), this was later shortened to LM so both are correct. "

" Spooky Coincidence:
The first initials of the last names of the first 3 men to walk on the moon and the first 3 men to walk on Earth were the same. (aybe not in the exact sequence. I'm not up on the bible)

ADAM ABLE CAIN
ARMSTRONG ALDRIN CONRAD

Cue erie music. or biblical music or maybe gregorian chants. what ever. "

" Will danielH have something new to focus on?
We wait in nervous anticipation. "

" Continued:
I don't believe that there were any mention of the clip of the LEM lifting off until 1972 or '73 because it hadn't happened yet.
And Apollo 12 didn't have live action because Conrad or Bean pointing the camera at the sun by accident which burned out what ever things burn out when you point a camera at the sun like our retina's burning out if we stare at it.

I'm still thinking about the gravity thing Carlos. The 1/6 thing hadn't occured to me until you mentioned it. I'm not sure that would effect movable objects. Acceleration in zero G effects mass, not weight, and mass doesn't change on Earth or the moon. The acceleration/deceleration is most prominent on take-off as they stage and undergo extreme Gs even though they are traveling in a more or less straight line. "

" Cogster, Carlos:
The clip you are referencing of the top part of the LM taking off IS NOT APOLLO 11. I believe it's Apollo 17's LEM. (Is it LEM or LM? I don't remember). It was a "anticipatory" delay shot controlled by someone at the Houston control center.

There is an 8 second delay between the moon and Earth so everything you see "live" actually occured 8 seconds ago.
Same with moon light to day. That is the light from 8 seconds ago.

The controller listened to the countdown and around 10, 9, 8, started panning the camera up. It was a one shot thing. It was the last Apollo moon mission and there would be no second chances from another camera.

Other clues: It's in color. Apollo 11 and 12 had B/W cameras. Moving picture cameras, not single shot cameras which were color. Also the LEM? was slightly different between 11 and 17, primarily because of the lunar rover which was stored in the decent portion of the LEM and took a lot of room. "

" Sven; remember they were taking off in 1/6G, the acceleration was relatively gentle, actually about like that of an elevator.
Cogito; the camera pan command was given from mission control. They actually had to time it taking into account the time delay in reaching the moon so that the camera panned at the correct time to catch the liftoff. "

" I think the coolest piece of "anti" evidence, is that the camera left on the moon pans up to follow the craft during takeoff to reconnect with the orbiter. Can anyone explain that anomaly? Was there some kind of tracking feature built in? "

" Dogs, respectfully, if there is good evidence for your idea, I would be willing to look at it. "

" If they continued the SATURN-V / Apollo mission series, it was said that someone was going to get killed. There were too many band-aids and easy-fixes throughout these space vehicles. "

" Finally, when the LEM was on the ground, one of the astronauts snagged his space suit on a sharp corner on a circuit breaker that was below knee level.

That circuit breaker was needed to complete the circuit to energize the booster to leave the moon.

The astronauts were aware of this damaged circuit, and they literally took it apart and inserted a manual piece of metal into the contacts when the command was given to fire the booster. "

" Dogs. Niel Armstrong was running out of fuel.

There was about 15 seconds of fuel remaining in the tank before Armstrong would have had to slam the ABORT button.

Houston is reading to Armstrong the number of remaining seconds before zero-fuel (with 1211 Alarm), and when the second astronaut reported that he saw dust, the man on the voice in Houston knew that Armstrong was going to land if there was even 1-second remaining, and he shut up. "

" Dogs. Another few tidbits: In the voice-feed with Neil Armstrong when he's bring down the LEM, you year "1211 alarm" almost like a footnote that doesn't matter.

BTW: the 1211 alarm was literally an autosafe re-boot of the master computer that was being used to maneuver the LEM for landing. "

" Dogs. Respectfully. I think it's good that you don't trust the government, and the news media.

I worked in aerospace starting in the 1980's, and I am familiar with the kind of failures that can happen in a space mission, and as a general rule, noone can possibly predict what can go wrong.

The astronauts in Apollo 13 almost died, and quite frankly, it is a miracle that the oxygen tank explosion occurred when it did. If it happened before they docked to the LEM, they wouldn't have come home. Also, if it exploded after they landed on the moon, they wouldn't have come home.

The kind of thing where you see Mission Control camping in the Mission Control Center is real. A MC Manager wearing a dirty filthy vest that he won't take off. That's real. "

" There is no conspiracy or cover-up. Americans walked on the moon, not on some movie set.

One question: How did Armstrong and Aldrin remain standing when the top part of the LEM separated from the bottom part to return to the CSM? The acceleration must have been intense, far more than like an elevator going up. This is the only thing that would make me think the whole thing was faked (and it wasn't).

Cog. is right. Thousands would have known that it was faked and said something in the years past. Only nuts did. Nuts who weren't involved but have it on "good authority" which means another nut who didn't have anything to do with the thing says that it was faked.

Increase the amperage of your foil hats!
A new transmission is coming in. "

" Dogs, how do you know the pads don't have any dust on them? Have you tried wiping them down? If they are made of smooth metal, dust won't tend to stick. No matter how fine the dust is, it will settle instantly due to the vacuum. That was even demonstrated by an astronaut kicking the dust for the camera. Please give us more of your evidence. "

" Dogs, how could you make an assertion as to the density of the surface of the moon if nobody has ever been there? You state that there is "allot of evidence", that seems like a pretty weak example. The thing conspiracy theorists ever fail to explain is how many people it would take to pull off a fake, yet not a single credible person has blown the whistle in 40 years. Let alone that the whole thing took 3 presidential administrations to complete. The theory is just like the movie, a figment of an overactive imagination. "

" Allot of evidence that it never happened. One thing, the landing pods do not have any moon dust on them. As soft as the make up of the moon is, it should have taken days for it to settle. Not a bad job, considering it was done in a hanger, NASA was under unbelievable pressure to get the launch under way, something like the movie Capricorn One. "