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Presidential oath is swore on the Bible


Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:49 AM PDT

Comments (68 comment(s))

It saddens me to hear that the people of the Freedom From Religion Foundation are fighting to take prayer out of our City Council meetings.

The way I see it, no one is forcing you to bow your head, close your eyes, fold your hands and say, "Amen." I do not think they are trying to offend anybody with a simple prayer. Most people chose to simply ignore things if it is something they are not interested in listening to.

So I must ask, why can't those who do not want to pray tune out the 30-second prayer? No one is forcing you into their religion by praying. It is just a tradition we have carried on. Whether we like it or not, this country was founded and based on the word of the Lord.

No one criticizes the fact that when the president is sworn into office, he takes an oath on the Bible, or that a president has prayed with Congress before a meeting. And why? Because it is a tradition that started with George Washington, the first president of this great country.

I hope the City Council members decide to keep the prayer and continue carrying on the tradition.

Rachel Morgan
Acampo

Reader Feedback

Cogito wrote on Jun 29, 2009 7:14 AM:

" Contrapasso, thanks, I would have swore it was "sworded". "

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Leonard wrote on Jun 29, 2009 4:48 AM:

" voter wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:55 PM:

Why does the word "Borat" come to mind?

LOL! You have defined my mental image of Brian for all time. "

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Contrapasso wrote on Jun 28, 2009 11:58 PM:

" SWORN, not SWORE! "

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Lodian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:20 PM:

" Laughing with voter @ 7:53 PM. :-) "

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Lodian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:19 PM:

" Brian wrote "Me being a person of Ukranian descent I am quite capable of handling a retired combat proctologist. Roll the dice. Go for it. If you think you can out-debate me you're in for a rude awakening."


Now this one takes the prize for goofiest post to date! LOL! We're not laughing "with" you, Brian.

P.S. Brian, if you are of "Ukrainian" decent perhaps you should already know how to spell it. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2009 9:58 PM:

" Ukraine and the former Soviet Union were such an enigma. The people are intelligent to the point of chess being a spectator sport, but economically they were boiling rocks to make soup. Maybe it's because they make such great vodka. they did show us that a government controlled economy will never work, no matter how smart you are. "

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voter wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:36 PM:
" Since you are such a mighty Ukranian intellect,"

Why does the word "Borat" come to mind? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:54 PM:

" Brian, could you give me one valid reason that a prayer to anyone is necessary before a city council meeting? Because to me, it just seems totally odd and out of place. As far as the LA seal, I was against the Cross being removed, as I was the Goddess Pomona (a Pagan symbol), and the oil derricks. It represented their history. If you want to know, rosary beads still adorn the Los Angeles seal. There's still a symbol of the Catholic Church, instrumental to the city's founding, well displayed . "

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voter wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:53 PM:

" It's a chronic condition, Ivan. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:41 PM:

" I've seen this sort of reaction before in the field. The sphincter muscle contracts, cutting off the flow of blood to the brain. Without immediate action to remove the cranium from the rectum, long term brain damage can ensue. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:37 PM:

" I think Mr Dockter believes that the word "Hombre" is somehow intimidating.

I'm just not sure why. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Since you are such a mighty Ukranian intellect, this shouldn't be too hard for you. Just explain it to me Mr Dockter.

Why should I have to have my tax dollars used to provide a forum for your prayers.

WHY? "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:35 PM:

" I'm not advocating spending tax money on taking down signs anymore than I am advocating spending money on putting up new ones.

That said, I do not want my tax money spent funding a forum for your misconceived prayers. You've got plenty of Churches to do your praying in, I don't see why you need to use the forum that my tax dollars built as well. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:13 PM:

" Ivan,

And you know where you can put your advocacy for the Freedom From Religon Foundation, HOMBRE! "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:09 PM:

" Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 5:05 PM:

" In addition to state sponsored religion I am also opposed to public displays of astounding stupidity.

-A short prayer at a city council
meeting is not state sponsored religon.
Careful making public protests of this prayer. It will make you look astoundingly stupid, HOMBRE. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 7:01 PM:

" And Ivan,

Me being a person of Ukranian descent I
am quite capable of handling a retired combat proctologist. Roll the dice. Go for it. If you think you can out-debate me you're in for a rude awakening. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 6:55 PM:

" Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Don't use my tax dollars to provide yourself with a forum for your prayers.

Well Ivan,
There are references to Christianity throughout many public buildings that have to be maintained with tax dollars.
So, are you an advocate of removing all these references. It sure seems to me you are. So how can you not be opposed to cities with all it's signage and such
with names of Saints. Make yourself clear Ivan or I will conclude that you accept tax dollars to be used on certain
instances. Why don't you just give up and stop your stupid drive to remove religon from public buildings. Live your life without trying to shove your anti-religious stance in public building
down our throats, HOMBRE! "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 5:05 PM:

" In addition to state sponsored religion I am also opposed to public displays of astounding stupidity.

Give up now, Mr. Dockter or I will be forced to institute a series of protests in front of your keyboard.

As a retired combat proctologist, I can assure you that I am one hombre you do not want to tangle with. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 5:02 PM:

" Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:48 AM:

-Can you also assure me that the vast majority of you "Judeos" are not at all crazy about your tax money being used to maintain signs of cities named after
Christian and Catholic Saints? Are you going to go this far?

Mr Dockter, that is the stupidest question I have seen today. It does not warrant any further response. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 28, 2009 4:59 PM:

" "Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 9:56 AM:

Are you saying that tax money should not fund any religon?"

Yup Mr Dockter, that's exactly what I am saying. "

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dogbark wrote on Jun 28, 2009 4:52 PM:

" I meant to type "The rube" (parson) and I meant to type "our YOUTH" (the scouts)
my fingers got bewitched with my snarky Wiccan comment! LOL. "

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dogbark wrote on Jun 28, 2009 4:50 PM:

" Also you have to have heard some of the invocations to understand what the uproar is about.
I've not noticed any untoward parosnage behavior the few times I've attended a council meeting, but I do recall a "non denominational" prayer for a scout gathering where to rube thanks "Jesus" for giving the scoutmasters the guidance to protect our your from the "Gays of San Francisco." Offensive? yes I thinks so, At the least very bizarre from an ordained minister of the religion that preaches tolerance and love. But this is what sometimes happens when you allow "invocations."
Anyway, that word sounds very Wiccan doesn't it? "

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dogbark wrote on Jun 28, 2009 4:44 PM:

" The inaccuracies begin with the title.
It is Sworn, not swore.
Also the Constitution makes NO provision for a Bible, nor the oath stating "under God."
President Washington did choose to say that, but it was not part of the planning for inauguration, in fact they had to borrow a Bible from the nearest church as none of the founding fathers were apparently much on Bible toting, and so there was not one present. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:54 AM:

" Ivan,

Are you also opposed to the headstones with crosses on them at military cemetaries being maintained with your tax dollars? "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:48 AM:

" Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 27, 2009 7:08 PM:

" Mr Dockter, it may or may not be true that the foundation of this country is "Judeo Christian" but I can assure you that the vast majority of us "Judeos" are not at all crazy about the idea of our tax money being used to fund Christianity.

-Can you also assure me that the vast majority of you "Judeos" are not at all crazy about your tax money being used to maintain signs of cities named after
Christian and Catholic Saints? Are you going to go this far? "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:36 AM:

" Cogito,

Were you one of those who led the drive to have the cross removed from the great seal of Los Angeles? "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:18 AM:

" Cogito wrote:
Teaching future generations tolerance doesn't include shoving our beliefs down their throats with some misguided sense of tradition. "

-I don't see how a small little prayer at a council meeting can be construed
as shoving beliefs down ones throat. I'm not aware of a prime directive one
must abide by in order to attend these meetings. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:10 AM:

" No. Brian.
You're still too stupid to read what's written. I never mentioned Muslims; that was Stamos. Sorry for you incapacity.

Billy, what part of "people from the same religious affiliation may indeed need to be protected from people of the same religious affiliation is not stupid" don't you understand?

Are you prepared to denounce so many on the left who insist that Timothy McVeigh blew up the building in the name of Christianity? Were other Christians stupid in your eyes to think
that they should be protected from people like him?

I don't believe McVeigh blew up the building in the name of Christianity, to be clear. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 28, 2009 9:56 AM:

" Ivan wrote:

but I can assure you that the vast majority of us "Judeos" are not at all crazy about the idea of our tax money being used to fund Christianity. "

Are you saying that tax money should not fund any religon? Or just Christianity? What is it Ivan? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 PM:

" Brian wrote on Jun 27, 2009 5:45 PM:"I really don't know where Billy is going with this. Next thing he's going to tell us is one is stupid to ask why Muslims must be protected from Muslims even though the majority of the people killed by radical Muslims are Muslim. "

No. Brian.
You're still too stupid to read what's written. I never mentioned Muslims; that was Stamos. Sorry for you incapacity. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:13 PM:

" Brian, you're using a narrow minded, bigoted culture to justify a narrow minded, bigoted point of view. This is America. We're supposed to be bigger than that. Time you got on board with "Judeos" like Ivan, and "Christians" like me. Showing a little respect for one another, and valuing everyone's spirituality (or not) as equals, will make us a better society. Teaching future generations tolerance doesn't include shoving our beliefs down their throats with some misguided sense of tradition. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 27, 2009 7:08 PM:

" Mr Dockter, it may or may not be true that the foundation of this country is "Judeo Christian" but I can assure you that the vast majority of us "Judeos" are not at all crazy about the idea of our tax money being used to fund Christianity. "

Report Abuse

Brian wrote on Jun 27, 2009 5:53 PM:

" Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:19 PM:

" So, to help me with Anthropis' phrasing; Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Atheists, etc. should not feel excluded when official government prayers address Jesus Christ, but if prayers OTHER than Christian prayers are offered, Anthropis is ready to vote out the perpetrator and replace him/her with proper Christian-thinking politicians?

Is that it?

-Getting you up to speed Billy: The foundation of this country is Judeo Christian. I'm sure you would like that to have been different. But it's not.
Christians don't go over to India and tell the city council of a particular city that Christian prayers must be accepted in a Hindu culture. "

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Brian wrote on Jun 27, 2009 5:45 PM:

" Billy wrote:

I'm sorry, Stamos, but were you so stupid as to ask why Christians must be protected from Christians? "

-In any society there may be people of a certain religon who may do harm
to people of the same religon. I really don't know where Billy is going with this. Next thing he's going to tell us is one is stupid to ask why Muslims must be protected from Muslims even though the majority of the people killed by radical Muslims are Muslim. "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 27, 2009 4:24 PM:

" Anthropis, must be nice to set yourself up as a judge concerning the intolerance of opinions, keeping in mind that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that shouldn`t boggle your mind. Are you sure you haven`t looking at the sun to come up with a comment like that. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 3:45 PM:

" the intolerance of opinions of varying degrees is mind boggling! "

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sam wrote on Jun 27, 2009 2:50 PM:

" Yes, I do. "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 27, 2009 1:20 PM:

" Anthropis asks jep why December 25th is the birthday of Christ, well here`s how that happened, a calander and a dart, the dart just happened to land on the 25th of December, so viola Christ is born. Most of these posts sound like they came from members of "Jerry`s Kids". Light`en up folks and remember don`t look directly into the sun. "

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mep wrote on Jun 27, 2009 1:15 PM:

" I don't know. Why did early Christian leaders change the date of Jesus' supposed birth to Dec. 25th and mix their traditions with a pagan and germanic celebration, the winter solstice? "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Don't use my tax dollars to provide yourself with a forum for your prayers.

Its as simple as that. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:45 PM:

" Hey mep, tell me then, why it is codified in our federal laws (the United States Code) that December 25th be an official holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ? "

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mep wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:38 PM:

" We are supposed to have a secular government. Am I wrong? Why is there a prayer at all. It's silly and unnecessary. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:38 PM:

" mep, you said He was tough and I just used a more acceptable word. Me defend God? really, you must be kidding! "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:34 PM:

" Billy Ruben, if your great compassion for the exclusion of Jews, Muslims, etc, why doesn't it extend to Christians as well? By the way are you kidding or do you really feel that an invocation said by an invited pastor is an 'official government prayer? "

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mep wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM:

" @anthropis - What's omnipotence got to do, got to do with it? I'm only wondering why you or anyone else thinks they need to protect god? Isn't he really tall? Can't he defend himself from words and thoughts? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:22 PM:

" And all religions are equally fairly represented when Bob Johnson stands up to bray that "This is Christian Country, like it or lump it"? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:19 PM:

" So, to help me with Anthropis' phrasing; Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Atheists, etc. should not feel excluded when official government prayers address Jesus Christ, but if prayers OTHER than Christian prayers are offered, Anthropis is ready to vote out the perpetrator and replace him/her with proper Christian-thinking politicians?

Is that it? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Wtf, thanks. Plus, while I agree with your sentiment, I wonder why spirituality, of any kind, is necessary at a public meeting. Where's the harm in having a secular forum when dealing with a city and its needs? I think all business could be attended to, as proficiently as it is now, without involving God, Jesus Christ, Buddah, Allah, Krishna, etc. That's my point. "

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wtf wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:52 AM:

" Cogito your post on Jun 27, 2009 9:48 AM is right on the money! WELL said!

From this ongoing debate, to me, the biggest problem is one of semantics i.e., the definition of "God" and the use of "Jesus Christ"....if the focus was more on the "spiritual" aspect, that, to me, would automatically be all-inclusive....even the atheists whose "spirituality" takes the form of hard facts. I also believe, that spirituality is what is really being strived for regardless of the name of the god. ;) "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Cogito, No, I didn't post such a thing. However if it did happen we are a Constitutional Republic which is a representative government. If we don't agree with a civil servant we can vote them out of office the next time around.
Getting offended and angry I believe is very shallow. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:44 AM:

" MEP, Our Creator (mentioned in the great declaration) is omnipotent! "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:37 AM:

" Anthropis, are you telling me that if every council meeting began with a Buddhist prayer, you'd have no problem with that? Somehow, I think you would. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:30 AM:

" Jeff@10:20, exactly! "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:21 AM:

" Sam, do you know skilos? "

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sam wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:11 AM:

" skilos ? "

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MEP wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:09 AM:

" BTW Rachel Morgan, the "Presidential oath is swore on the Bible" except for when it isn't. "

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MEP wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:46 AM:

" anthropis - I cannot believe that rational people think they need to protect god. I thought he was a tough guy? "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:25 AM:

" Jeff, As a person, I do not drink the liberal cool-aid! "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:22 AM:

" I am conservative and a Greek Orthodox Christian, your post surprises me Cogito
as I believe the progressives (statist) are working to get our Creator, the Endower of our Unalienable Rights, out of the way so they can make our rights alienable! "

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jeff wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:20 AM:

" More shallow than those that feel it should/must be said? "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 10:12 AM:

" cogito, I cannot believe that rational Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Athiest, etc. would feel excluded from a public meeting after hearing a Christian Pastor mention Jesus Christ. I would consider such people to be very shallow! "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 9:48 AM:

" Anthropis, I am a conservative Christian Republican. I have been to enough of these things to know that the opening prayer is more of a formality than a heartfelt request to God for guidance by the entire audience. If you end the prayer with "in Jesus name we pray", you've just excluded the Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and aethists, just to name a few. The City Council represents every citizen, of every belief or non-belief. I respect my beliefs, but others believe differently. Why would I want to make them feel like 2nd class citizens in a gathering open to every citizen? The meetings are for all of us, and the "traditions" should reflect that. "

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Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Jun 27, 2009 9:32 AM:

" Mazie said: "If we had more God we would have less hate."

This coming from one of the most hateful people blogging here. I guess your idea of sterilizing all the illegal immigrants is an example of your axiom, huh Mazie? You're a hypocrite. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 9:11 AM:

" Cogito, traditions just happen to define a community! It is obvious that so many follow the progression away from our roots, our traditions, our customs and our laws. These people actually define themselves as 'progressives' who claim to be changing America for the better, are they? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 27, 2009 8:34 AM:

" "Tradition" is a weak argument. What if slavery were defended by saying it's a tradition to own workers. What if we had kept the policy of putting native peoples on reservations, and slaughtering those who resisted. What if women never got the right to vote, because that wasn't our tradition? Our traditions should be inclusive whenever possible. So why don't we start a new tradition of respecting everyone's beliefs, and just dispense with the rote practice of a prayer before a council meeting. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 27, 2009 8:09 AM:

" To Jeff, makes sense to me; Christians believe God lives in their hearts and that He is the 'God of Love' who encourages His followers to also love their neighbor. Hence God living in the hearts of more people would promulgate more love thus less hated and intolerance. "

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jeff wrote on Jun 27, 2009 7:21 AM:

" "If we had more god we would have less hate."

Hands down funniest ten words ever read on LNS comments! wow, classic short-sightedness, mazie. thanks for the morning chuckle. "

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Mazie wrote on Jun 27, 2009 6:56 AM:

" Rachel: you are so correct. The main reason our country is in such turmoil is due to the fact that everyone is taking God out of everything we do. If we had more God we would have less hate. I think if anyone does not like it they can LEAVE. That should be their only right. "

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