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Prayer in public is granted by Constitution


Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:15 AM PDT

Comments (32 comment(s))

My sincere hope is that the Lodi City Council will not capitulate to the Christ-haters who use the false premise of "separation of church and state" to remove God from "public" life.

Our U.S. Constitution's First Amendment (1791) says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

The key terms are defined as follows: "Law" is the collective stature and rules of conduct established and enforced by the authority, legislation or custom of a given community or other group. Law implies prescription and enforcement by a ruling authority. "Prescription" is defined as the acquirement of a right, title or something from time immemorial or over a long period, i.e., a right or title prescribed by custom or long use. "Establish" is defined as permanently instituting, ordaining or settling something. "Prohibit" means to forbid, prevent, hinder or refuse to permit. "Abridge" means to shorten or lessen in scope, to curtail or deprive of rights, privileges, etc. "Freedom" is the state or quality of being free, i.e., exemption or liberation from the control of some other person or some arbitrary power, i.e., independence — the absence of hindrance, restraint, confinement, repression, as in freedom of speech. "Exercise" means to put into action, to carry out, perform, fulfill or to practice. "Infringement" means to fail to observe the terms of agreement, to break a law, or to violate or encroach on the rights of others.

According to the terms of our Constitution (agreement) praying publicly in the name of Christ Jesus at the opening or closing of any meeting, public or otherwise, is a prescriptive right of Christians, i.e., accepted since the founding of our country even before the Constitution was written.

Christianity is the bedrock foundation of this nation, like it or not, and Christians cannot be prohibited from the open free exercise of it, nor have our right to freedom of speech infringed upon or abridged by those few with a godless agenda who desire to rewrite our Constitution into something they can manipulate and force down our throats.

William Van Amber Fields
Morada

Reader Feedback

dogbark wrote on Jul 1, 2009 4:11 PM:

" People always get this backwards. The founders of our nation wrote the Constitution (including article six which prohibits a religious test for office) the people wrote the Bill of Rights. Before the Constitution could be ratified, the people through their state legislatures demanded the bill of rights be added as protection from some of the power written into the Constitution. "

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yeah you wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:27 PM:

" Careful, Dyan. There are people who will believe you because it fits in their twisted vision. "

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dyan wrote on Jun 27, 2009 9:37 AM:

" IKt's right there in Article II. "Christian prayer shall begin every city council meeting. All athiests shall be burned at the stake." "

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danielh wrote on Jun 26, 2009 11:58 AM:

" Leonard: Are there any Aryan Brotherhood elected to the CC who want to do one of their prayers?

If someone from the Aryan Brotherhood wants to pray, let them. "

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Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2009 5:53 AM:

" What happens if some pastor from the Aryan Brotherhood of Christ shows up and demands the right to give a prayer which references his belief that the so called "mud people" are the servants of Satan?

I think most people would (rightfully) be deeply offended by such an invocation but, if the council bars such a pastor, they will truthfully be making a law that discriminates against a particular faith based on their beliefs. "

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Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2009 5:46 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:39 AM:
" I'd like to see a chicken beheaded before a meeting. That would assure at least one interesting thing happening that night. The cc doesn't need prayed for at a meeting. The citizens however, may need a prayer of protection FROM them.

Ditto. "

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yeah you wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:05 PM:

" Imagine the lawsuit if a Council meeting starts with a prayer to Jesus and then a Muslim, Jew or Sikh loses a vote for a housing development or downtown bar. "

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danielh wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:54 PM:

" dogs4you: Yes I meant to put "not" in there. However, I concede they might be saying some kind of a prayer, but still, I don't want anything they have.

I was referring to the critical mass of corruption that cannot exist within such a small area of about 66 square miles at the same time, without having a nuclear explosion.

With that much corruption in such a small area at the same time, I can't see how anyone can tell me that they have God acting with God's blessings in what they do. "

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Robb wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:42 PM:

" Christianity is the bedrock foundation of this nation??

What "rock" have you been under?
Oh yea, you live in stockton, uhhh morada..
whatever... "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:33 PM:

" danielh, did you mean to put "not" in the first line of your post, i.e. I do not believe our nations top leaders are praying? Lead by example would be good advice coming from the 554 people that run the government in this country. I have everything I need and got it through hard work, didn`t ask for anything and didn`t get anything I don`t deserve. I know people that go to Reno, Vegas and Laughlin and pray that they will win allot of money, is that a little over the top for you? "

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danielh wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:55 PM:

" dogs4you: I do not believe that our nation's top leaders are praying.

You said, "praying doesn't work given the state the country is in and is a waste of time."

Everybody that prays is answered. It is our duty and responsibility to investigate through our social lives who we prefer to associate with, and hopefully we choose people that pray.

I believe your statement about prayer not working is in reference to some conditions that are being created in Washington right now, and I am not interested in their spiritual energy. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:43 PM:

" An invocation is for everyone, it is beyond my comprehension that people actually get uncomfortable and feel left out if a clergyman offers an invocation. When I was growing up in Lodi there just wasn't so much intolerance for what others believed. "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:07 PM:

" If praying helps the CC of Lodi all the way to both houses of Congress, then I could go along with it. With the condition Lodi, the state all the way to the White House, it would seem to me that praying doesn`t work given the state the country is in and is a waste of time.

The only time a non-believer believes is when he is going into battle and might not survive, at that point he wants to cover all the bases. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:32 PM:

" Anthropis, a "long held tradition" that is not respectful to the beliefs of all citizens, in a public forum representing all citizens, is not representative of what we are about. America is a country for everyone. You may still say a prayer. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:12 PM:

" Anthropis, sometimes respecting the beliefs of all citizens at a public gathering is a good thing. You still have the right to say a prayer if you wish. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:03 PM:

" Cogito, both houses of congress still open with an invocation. why oh why should we dispense with long held traditions? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:41 AM:

" Anthropis, I agree, the separation phrase is nowhere to be found in the Constitution. The "free exercise thereof" phrase IS in the constitution however, and mostly ignored. But the prayer said before a council meeting is more of a tradition and a formality than heartfelt. I feel they should just dispense with it. It's neither inclusive, nor respecting of all citizens beliefs. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:11 AM:

" The separation of church and state is a myth created by a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, activist judges adopted it out of context and legislated from the bench. Was a violation of the 1st Amendment and also their oath of office. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:06 AM:

" To Jeff, In view of the law as it is written and published congress is prohibited from restricting religion or free speech. To conclude that an invocation (which is religious in nature and free speech) is actually establishing a religion is a real stretch. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:34 AM:

" Jeff, could you please explain how allowing a prayer would be "establishing a religion"? There is no law being passed. "Prohibiting the free exercise thereof" would be more likely a first amendment violation were it prohibited. I agree, they don't need a prayer. But my idealism has nothing to do with the 1st amendment. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Anthropis, you're right, even the potential for the outstanding entertainment provided by a headless chicken causing chaos in council chambers couldn't get me to attend a meeting. "

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jeff wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:25 AM:

" anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:29 AM:

" To Voter; Whomever the City Council invites to give an invocation. "


I believe this to be the exact problem/issue. The CC, as government, is prohibited from establishing religion. By allowing the CC to invite, or not invite, any and all religions is allowing government to establish which religion can or cannot be heard (at their meetings). This is counter to the First Ammendment. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:45 AM:

" To Voter; I believe the law should be consistent as in the lady with the scales being blind folded.

To Cogito; you surely jest. "

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voter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:43 AM:

" I'd show up for a chicken beheading. Maybe this would be a way to get more community involvement. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:39 AM:

" I'd like to see a chicken beheaded before a meeting. That would assure at least one interesting thing happening that night. The cc doesn't need prayed for at a meeting. The citizens however, may need a prayer of protection FROM them. "

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voter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:37 AM:

" Well, at least you're consistent. I'll give ya that. "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:30 AM:

" The wording in the 1st Amendment is explicit! "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:29 AM:

" To Voter; Whomever the City Council invites to give an invocation. "

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voter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:22 AM:

" Are you good with a little Voodoo incantation? Some Wiccan chanting? Pirates praising the Flying Spaghetti Monster? How about a small animal sacrifice in the Santeria tradition? "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:22 AM:

" To Voter: The term 'religion' in the first amendment should mean just that, any religion! Why do you feel, pray tell, that Christianity should be singled out? "

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voter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:16 AM:

" anthropis, are you suggesting that ANY religious invocation at public (govt.) meetins should be protected or just Christian invocations? "

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anthropis wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:08 AM:

" While I agree with the writers overall defense of invocations in public, I disagree that somehow we have a constitutional right to do so. The Constitution of the United States does not endow rights upon anyone, it is rather our Creator that bestows rights upon people. The 1st Amendment rather prohibits government from denying the free exercise of religion, abridging free speech, etc. An invocation at public meetings in Lodi should be protected by the constitution rather than abridged! "

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