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Waterboarding is torture
Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:27 AM PDT
Former Vice President Cheney is lying to America again, as he and the rest of the Bush "crime family" has done for eight years.
The fact is, the Japanese used waterboarding during World War II. After the war, some Japanese who waterboarded were in jail for life and some were even put to death.
Bush, Cheney and the rest of the "crime family" should be tried for their war crimes. There is no evidence it saves lives.
Arne Aasen
Lodi
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sam wrote on Jun 26, 2009 4:19 PM:
stantaves wrote on Jun 26, 2009 3:35 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2009 9:04 AM:
Bahahahaha
Now THAT is the funniest phrase yet. Thanks for the best chuckle ever. "
stantaves wrote on Jun 26, 2009 7:33 AM:
Brian wrote on Jun 26, 2009 5:58 AM:
We're already all too aware of how little you know.
-As usual, Lodian has little to offer other than condescending remarks.
Stan,
Many of us here appreciate your posts.
Your observations and your assessment of things aren't overlooked. Thank you. "
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:30 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:07 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:57 AM:
stantaves wrote on Jun 25, 2009 7:54 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 24, 2009 12:57 PM:
We're already all too aware of how little you know. "
stantaves wrote on Jun 24, 2009 8:42 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 23, 2009 4:28 PM:
Were you gone? "
stantaves wrote on Jun 23, 2009 10:18 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:50 PM:
Mousavi, Celebrated in Iranian Protests, Was the Butcher of Beirut
"He may yet turn out to be the avatar of Iranian democracy, but three decades ago Mir-Hossein Mousavi was waging a terrorist war on the United States that included bloody attacks on the U.S. embassy and Marine Corps barracks in Beirut.
"Retired Navy Admiral James "Ace" Lyons, sometimes called "the father" of the Navy SEALs' Red Cell counter-terror unit, also fingered Mousavi for the 1988 truck bombing of the U.S. Navy's Fleet Center in Naples, Italy..."
rest of article:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2009/06/mousavi-celebrated-in-iranian.html "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:34 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:33 PM:
I would love to hear your response after you see it. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 4:46 PM:
Yes, along with the Israeli Mossad. Looked at the trailer for "Crossing Over" - looks like a good movie and I will definitely check it out. Thanks for the lead! "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 4:37 PM:
Thank you. I discovered that. We helped put the Shah in by helping him over throw the democratically-elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq.
Didn't our CIA even train the Shah's secret police?
The 1979 Iranian Revolution deposed of the Shah and replaced the pro-Western monarchy with the anti-Western Islamic Republic of Iran.
Aren't we so smart??? "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 3:56 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 3:42 PM:
Yes, we did. Here's the famous pic of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
However, you're a bit mistaken regarding Iran. The current government, which has been in power about 30 years, tossed out the U.S. backed government of 1953. It is the 1953 redux that the U.S. is backing again. In other words, we didn't put the current government in Iran in place; what the U.S. and others are trying to do, is put the gov they put in place over 50 years ago, back in place....sounds confusing, I know. ;) "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 3:17 PM:
History is not my thing at all, but did we not give Saddam Hussein money, power and military support in the 1980's?? "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 2:25 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 2:24 PM:
My friend told me that he and his fellow Marines were herded onto a military transport at gunpoint with their rifles sans ammo. How they were supposed to rescue hostages without bullets is beyond me; but then there's also the lurking question of:
Were this second batch of soldiers supposed to be killed/murdered to create an "international incident"? We'll never know. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 2:09 PM:
"Formed under the guidance of United States and Israeli intelligence officers in 1957, SAVAK developed into an effective secret agency...SAVAK increasingly to symbolized the Shah's rule from 1963-79, a period of corruption in the royal family, one-party rule, the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners, suppression of dissent, and alienation of the religious masses. The United States reinforced its position as the Shah's protector and supporter, sowing the seeds of the anti-Americanism that later manifested itself in the revolution against the monarchy."
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iran/savak/
The current situation in Iran looks like a re-play of the 1953 events that brought the above security apparatus into existence. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 2:04 PM:
What I find interesting is that during this current brouhaha, the former Shah's son is getting a whole lotta airtime in the U.S. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 1:50 PM:
Looking at the evidence, I would have to say we (the U.S.) are playing a part in what is going on along with a few other countries, primarily Israel and the UK. Remember that Iran is bordered by both Iraq and Afghanistan, two countries currently occupied by U.S. forces; not to mention Iran has a nice oil supply.
There is much more here than meets the eye. Plus, I keep wondering where all the U.S. people who are so concerned with the Iranian elections were when Bush stole TWO of them in our own country! LOL! "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 1:46 PM:
I most certainly do and, if I remember correctly, there were allegations regarding jury tampering as well as FBI entrapment with the guy the FBI used being paid something like a quarter of a million dollars in taxpayer monies. That entire "terrorist" case was suspect from the get go. "
Gator wrote on Jun 22, 2009 12:20 PM:
feel of the recoil…:-)))))))!! "
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:56 AM:
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:32 AM:
I am curious though, because I do respect your opinion, do you think this Iranian uprising is driven by us, the US? "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:30 AM:
California's budget is frightening. Personally I think we employ way to many people. When their pensions come due, how are we going to pay? Actually just look a little Lodi. In a few more years pensions are going to bankrupt the city.
As for waterboarding, I believe it is torture. I believe the men who flew the planes on 9/11 are terrorists. And I also do believe many many Iraqi citizens believe we are terrorists.
I saw a great movie this weekend... Crossing Over.
I do not know if you are into movies, but it is out on dvd and a great watch. "
Gator wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:29 AM:
to believe verbatim every little bit of information that comes over the
Fiber pipeline.. They tend to be insulted should one challenge their
beliefs, because to them it’s the final word on a subject. So they love to
attack, insult and make fun of a person who would dare challenge their
ideology how ever misguided…All in all they come across of being some
what intellectually Challenged. Oh and they LOL a lot…Hmmmmm!! "
voter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:16 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:15 AM:
OK. Just curious. Actually, I'm not concerned with Iran at all; just wanted to give you some links on what others are saying.
Me? These are the headlines I'm concerned with while a lot of Americans are focused overseas:
California Collapsing
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/california-collapsing-34271
Unemployment crisis grips US states
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14050
Soup kitchen queues grow as US teeters on brink of new downturn
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/21/surge-in-demand-us-soup-kitchens
Costs are keeping patients from care
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/06/21/costs_are_keeping_patients_from_care/
How the Financial Reform Plan Protects the Status Quo
http://www.counterpunch.org/hudson06222009.html
It's good you're keeping an eye on Iran, sam, since you have a personal interest; I'll be keeping an eye on things closer to home. "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:04 AM:
And by the way, the only sites I am following are in Farsi and have to be translated. Or you can translate them using the google translator.
Did you know that "Death to the US" does NOT mean death as we know it? Two weeks ago Ahmadinejad was handing out potatoes during his campaign. Many non followers were chanting "Death to potatoes".
Go have a conversation with an Iranian. It is extremely interesting.
Why my interest in Iran? I have a personal tie. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:53 AM:
Why? "
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:50 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:48 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:45 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:42 AM:
"Beijing fears a confrontation looming and counsels Obama to keep the pledge in his Cairo speech not to repeat such errors in the US's Middle East policy as the overthrow of the elected government of Mohammed Mosaddeq in Iran in 1953."
This is particularly worrisome since China owns so much U.S. "paper" "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:40 AM:
Excellent article here:
http://atheonews.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-actually-happened-in-iranian.html "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:38 AM:
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:33 AM:
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:31 AM:
I find it fascinating that 70% of the population are under 30 and do not remember how we "helped" in their last revolution. I hope and pray we stay out of it.
I also love the involvement of the women. (2/3 of the college students in Iran are woman).
I find it so fascinating how the whole thing is being played out over internet. I love their drive and tenacity. "
voter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:23 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:20 AM:
On June 29, 2008, Seymour Hersh reported in the New Yorker: “Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country’s religious leadership.” "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:20 AM:
On May 23, 2007, Brian Ross and Richard Esposito reported on ABC News: “The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert “black” operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell ABC News.”
On May 27, 2007, the London Telegraph independently reported: “Mr. Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilize, and eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs.” "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:15 AM:
The announcement of the results of the election were planned in advance:
Corporate-controlled media mouthpieces had already declared Mousavi the winner even before the people of Iran had had an opportunity to cast their vote. When the result turned out to be contrary to their perceived wisdom, it was immediately denounced as “rigged”. It seems even Mousavi had fallen for this propaganda because as soon as the polls closed, he told a press conference in Tehran that he had “won”. How he could make such a claim when no results had come in?
http://www.infowars.net/articles/june2009/220609Meddling.htm "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:13 AM:
"What about the 2006 (monitored) democratic election in Gaza in which the people resisted western threats and bribes and elected Hamas as their leader? We responded by punishing the people of Gaza and cutting aid to the region." "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:12 AM:
"As soon as Ahmadinejad was declared the victor in Iran’s election EACH of our mainstream media sources were ready to cry foul and dismiss the results as an 'obvious' fraud.
"If you doubt that the Iranian election media bombardment was deliberate, ask yourself - Do you know who won last months Panamanian election ? Did you even know there was an election? "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:08 AM:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/on-eve-of-global-anti-torture,868735.shtml
Info on this day
http://www.un.org/events/torture/bkg.htm
sam, look up info regarding the 1953 coup in Iran to see what's currently happening there. Don't you find it strange that there was more objective evidence that George W. Bush stole his two elections than there is at this time of election theft in Iran. But there was no orchestrated media campaign to discredit the US government. "
sam wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:51 AM:
The current Iranian government today has now labeled all the people who are opposing the elections as terrorists. "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:38 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:36 AM:
Earth to Cogito....what the h*ll are you talking about? This entire blog is totally ridiculous. There are no terrorists here and the alleged terrorists in the countries the U.S. has invaded are just people who want the U.S. OUT of their country. How would you like it, Cogito, if China invaded the U.S. and YOU were the one labeled a terrorist? But, of course, you'll rationalize that away like anything else you don't like. Fact is, you are getting spooked over something that doesn't exist.
We need to bring our troops home NOW! "
voter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:36 AM:
voter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:35 AM:
As an aside, what do you think the odds are that one of the "dysfunctional animals" would have one of your family members and you would have one of there's? How often outside of tribal warfare do you think this situation might come up? You've been watching way too many "B" movies if this is your justification for torture. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:28 AM:
Gator wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:47 AM:
Egyptian Doctor (surgeon) Ayman al Zawahiri.. Zawahiri got his militant
Ideas from another Egyptian Sayyid Qutb who was living in the United
States in the fifties…Zawahiri was said to be behind the assassination of
Anwar Sadat.To simply write these people off as ignorant savages hiding
In caves is done at our peril.. They are dangerous, sadistic and calculating
Biding their time. Their problem is not just with America, it’s the whole
western world and Islamic’s who side with us. Zawahiri has said the
world will kneel before the Sword of Islam and it’s Convert to Islam or
Die…To call water boarding torture is to be very naïve, what these people
do makes water boarding seem like a fun day at Disneyland… "
wtf wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:46 AM:
Cogito wrote: "Need I remind you buddy that you're reading the "opinion" page, not the fact page."
May I suggest you follow your own advice, Cogito? Especially when you're jumping my case when I simply voice **my** opinion.
But perhaps you're right. Maybe they are dysfunctional animals.
"Last week, the U.S. State Department announced that a preliminary investigation had concluded that Israel may have breached agreements with Washington on the use of U.S.-supplied cluster munitions during the Lebanon war."
The "Toys" That Kill in Lebanon
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1585565,00.html
"And here is where it gets nasty. Those American food packets bear more than a passing resemblance to the unexploded cluster munitions."
Especially for those who don't speak English.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/meanandnasty.html?q=meanandnasty.html
Oh, wait a minute, this is Israel and the U.S. doing this....must mean it's justified in your book; right, Cogito? "
voter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:40 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:04 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:26 PM:
Brian, you don't need to come to Lodi to face your enemy - he's you. "
Gator wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:28 PM:
off as a parrot , someone feeds you an Idea and you squawk…As for water
boarding being torture all I can say is Horse S***.If It came to stopping
a nuclear attack and I had the folks that knew the details, water boarding
would be the least of their worries… "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:56 PM:
How can you ever expect me to have a rational conversation with you if you insist on beliving that your crystal ball is dead on when it comes to making assessments or predictions? While we're at it, can you ask your crystal ball where I can get enough fertilizer at a cheap price to fill a panel van? :) "
Leonard wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:43 PM:
-With this assessment, I am confident that Leonard would in turn erect a momument for all the Radical Islamic martyrs and siting McVeigh and Rudolph as being morally equivalent to these barbarians.
Come now, Brian, lets discuss this rationally, if you are able. Timothy McVeigh's political agenda seems to have largely mirrored the sentiments you have expressed on these blogs.
Is there some single area in which your beliefs differ significantly from those espoused by McVeigh or Eric Rudolph?
If so, I would like to know. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:37 PM:
" If the Praegerites and the Limbuggers ever succeed in seizing power in this country, one of their first acts will almost certainly be to erect a monument to Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph and all of the other martyrs who have fallen over the course of their long cultural jihad. "
-With this assessment, I am confident that Leonard would in turn erect a momument for all the Radical Islamic martyrs and siting McVeigh and Rudolph as being morally equivalent to these barbarians. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:30 PM:
Lets not forget that the second worst act of terrorism in US history was committed by a right wing whack job who espoused many of the same viewpoints that are so popular with Brian's crowd. "
-Hmm, Timothy McVeigh trained with Al Qaeda in the Phillipines. Are you saying that right wing whack jobs are more likely to be terrorists than left wing whack jobs? I didn't think you shared the sentiments of Napalitano about people from the right. Now you've made it clear that YOU are willing to advance propaganda as a recruiting tool for terrorists. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:24 PM:
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:19 PM:
" And Brian says he's worried about terrorists? LOL! From the way he's talking, it looks like some Americans have to worry about certain individuals closer to home (read: Brian) rather than some far off people living in caves. "
-wtf, you're digging yourself into a deeper hole. It's becoming quite clear that you don't have a problem with conspiracy theorists, ie, 911 truthers, etc. Why don't you just come out and say
that these far off people living in caves don't use the propaganda, that these therorists put out, as a recrutement tool while you're at it?
Why not just also come out and say that Hamas and Al Qaeda don't have people imbedded here waiting for their marching orders? How ignorant you are. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:16 PM:
" And Brian says he's worried about terrorists? LOL! From the way he's talking, it looks like some Americans have to worry about certain individuals closer to home (read: Brian) rather than some far off people living in caves. "
Lets not forget that the second worst act of terrorism in US history was committed by a right wing whack job who espoused many of the same viewpoints that are so popular with Brian's crowd. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:06 PM:
This is typical of bullies who don't have a valid argument; they resort to violence. "
-HMM, Billy says I approve of child sodomy, a blatant untruth, and I don't have a valid reason to knock his block off? Whatever wtf. "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 5:38 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 5:36 PM:
This is typical of bullies who don't have a valid argument; they resort to violence. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:24 PM:
YOU ARE in over your head here. I have zero respect for anyone who wants to make this prisoner abouse issue more than it is. Alex Jones must be getting desperate for him to give this issue so must energy when he knows damn well that terrorists use this propaganda as a recruiting tool. Who's the traitor here? He seems to be so obsessed with his ratings he's forgotten that the very people that make it possible for him to give this issue energy are the very people who are keeping this country safe from terror. But he chooses
to advance this propaganda anyway. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:08 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:05 PM:
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:04 PM:
Perhaps there are some isolated incidents of prisoner abuse. Is there some documentation and proof that these people were under 18 who were supposedly raped? And are these incidents so widespread that it has to inhibit the ability of our military to perform their duties because of such un close scrutiny? There are many out there that are anti-military
and I'm really surprised that Jones would want to devote any of his time to this rubbish that puts our military in grave danger of being perceived with a moral equivalence to terrorists. This is sheer propaganda to use against our military. Shame on you, Alex. "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:01 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 3:59 PM:
Wow, Billy! Judging from Brian's post of Jun 21, 2009 3:23 PM it seems you've struck a nerve! Way to go! LOL! "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 3:23 PM:
The picture from the link that wtf originally posted does not have a picture of children being sodomized nor is there any links at all showing this that wtf insists exists. I'm not at all surprised that wtf would be posting links that are along the lines of media matters and the daily kos. Liberals do tend to advance a lie long enough that certain people (you for example) would construe it as truth. I doubt you were be this courageous to accuse me of endorsing such vile acts even if they di exist at Gitmo if I lived in Lodi or the surrounding area. Perhaps if I am ever in Lodi and I run into you you're more than welcome to join me at the nearest gym and put on the gloves. We'll see then how tough you are once I'm done with you. So, in the meantime,
I suggest you keep your despicable comments directed towards me to yourself. "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:47 PM:
http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com/ "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:46 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:46 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:45 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:45 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:44 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:44 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:44 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:43 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:43 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:43 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:42 PM:
There were these guys at a place called PNAC who called for a new Pearl Harbor. Gee, I think one of the flight attendants on that scam was called Pearle. They set up an attack on America, coordinated and effected by Mossad and the CIA and others and blamed it on some Arabs in a cave in Afghanistan. The mountain of facts all dovetail to the same conclusions. "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:42 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:42 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:41 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:41 PM:
No… you are not going to let it go and I’m not going to waste my time making links for poor propaganda junkies who really think the world is as stupid as they are; most of the time they are right. However, most of the time, most of the world is not as foul, low down, double dealing ugly like them either. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:34 PM:
You seem to be saying that you oppose all torture - so the Bush administration was wrong?
Is it possible for you to give a direct answer?
But then you state that sodomizing children is something of which you approve.
Brian wrote:"...How is this torture? This picture represents everyday life in San Francisco and they claim if you don’t allow it you’re being intolerant – even homophobic. There is nothing worse than fake outrage just to promote a political agenda."
Yes, I agree about the fake outrage and the promotion of politics. It's reprehensible that you and your cohorts resort to it. "
Lodian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 12:44 PM:
Gator wrote on Jun 21, 2009 12:08 PM:
forced water into the stomach until it distended their stomachs badly.
then the Japanese soldiers jumped on the distended stomach ..The US
had medical teams there to make sure no one came close to drowning..
also the Japanese had an odd trick they did with living Bamboo and a
certain orifice of the human body that caused great pain and death…As
water torture has been around for over 400 years it has been practiced by
some of the very same countries condemning the US for doing it…One
used by the Chinese was a single drop of water between the eyes every
4-5 seconds for days on end, it tends to drive one over the edge…To
stop a nuclear attack on America, what ever it takes, the gloves come off ! "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:18 AM:
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:13 AM:
that warring tribes with so much wealth from oil would turn into a clusterf*&%k, I don't have a clue. "
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:09 AM:
Brian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:06 AM:
What part of "this is fair" don't you understand? "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:54 AM:
"Using enhanced coercion techniques...to extract knowledge from a dysfunctional animal..."
Another smooth move. First rule: De-humanize your victim by calling them a "dysfunctional animal"
Did it ever occur to you, Cogito, that that is how ***you*** are viewed for invading the countries of other people?
Of course not. For some bizarre reason, you think you have the ***right*** to invade other peoples countries and steal their resources. Geez! "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:47 AM:
I can also see that you don't appear to have any creativity so you've called in Brian to assist you. Smooth move, there, Cog! LOL! "
wtf wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:46 AM:
Yes, Cogito, the subject is waterboarding; however, I must reiterate your need for a reading comprehension class. Look at the title, Cogito. What does it say?
Waterboarding is torture.
I can see you've called in the idiot brigade because you, and them, do not have any valid arguments justifying torture and seem to be all for it, and now the heckling begins. You're such big, strong men. NOT!
Sick. "
Robb wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:23 AM:
Come on people, there is a reason that it is called war..., some things happen that we may not like, tooooo bad.. Be Done! "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 9:01 PM:
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:57 PM:
How is this torture? This picture represents everyday life in San Francisco and they claim if you don’t allow it you’re being intolerant – even homophobic.
There is nothing worse than fake outrage just to promote a political agenda. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:51 PM:
just do the "eenie meenie miney moe thing" in determining who will be the next subject. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:47 PM:
and downright intellectual dishonesty.
wtf can put a feather in his cap for being the nincompoop of the year. "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 7:15 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 7:09 PM:
There is absolutely NO justification for torture.
Period. "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:50 PM:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/07/15/hersh/index.html
Were Children Sodomized In Front Of Their Prisoner Mothers At Abu Ghraib?
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/11/were-children-sodomized-in-front-of-their-prisoner-mothers-at-abu-ghraib/
Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html
Media Ignores Real Controversy Behind Torture Photos; They Show Prison Guards Raping Children
http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-ignores-real-controversy-behind-torture-photos-they-show-prison-guards-raping-children.html
"...detainee abuse photos that Obama has suddenly decided to suppress."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/why-no-investigation_b_209996.html
Obama-backed Bill to Ban Release of Bush-Era Torture Photos Passes Senate
http://obamboozled.blogspot.com/2009/06/obama-backed-bill-to-ban-release-of.html
US Senator: Obama will block abuse photo release
http://www.zimbio.com/Barack+Obama/articles/lw3EtVYR027/Senator+Obama+will+block+abuse+photo+release
The Latest Torture Cover-Up Scam
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0906d.asp "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:50 PM:
It seems you are "sold" on the idea of torture; so it would also seem that the idea of sodomizing children in front of their mothers sits OK with you as well.
Sick.
Though you don't like links, I will provide them for those who are serious about educating themselves and not just interested in spouting the "party" line. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:21 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:13 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:09 PM:
Hunh??!!?
Maybe you need a Reading Comprehension course, Cogito. My post at 2:31 PM today in response to your earlier, similar post was:
Cogito wrote: "What I was trying to point out is that it is a natural, normal response to do whatever necessary to protect ones progeny and species."
Too true; however, Cog, one must first make sure they have the right enemy.
Wow! I agreed with you; but, I added the caveat of ***first making sure*** you had the ***right*** enemy.
Good one with the leather whip, Leonard. LOL! "
Leonard wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:00 PM:
a good slap in the head with a bull whip
More leather fringed fantasies from the Dreaded Rear Admiral of the Folsom Street Armada.
Who EVER mentioned bull whips???
LOL! "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 6:00 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 20, 2009 5:23 PM:
this is too funny...
http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/hes_barack_obama "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 4:38 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 4:33 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 4:02 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 3:54 PM:
Wow! Strong words from someone who doesn't bother to inform himself! LOL! Guess an individual who has been a Major in the USAF wouldn't sway you from your FAUX snooze induced brain fog, either. LOL!
Major Matthew Alexander was a U.S. military interrogator for 14 years and received a Bronze Star for leading the team that tracked down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq and, at the time, a higher priority target than Osama bin Laden. Mr. Alexander has personally conducted hundreds of interrogations and supervised over a thousand of them…without using torture. "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 3:49 PM:
A lot of the “terrorists” being tortured are innocent individuals. In the countries the U.S. has invaded, there is a “bounty” for “turning in” alleged terrorists. In other words, if you, Cogito, don’t like Leonard, you would turn Leonard in as a “terrorist” for a “bounty” and a “good guy” badge in one of these countries. Poor Leonard would then be tortured for information he does not possess based solely on your greed and dislike of him.
This quote fits you perfectly! LOL!
"The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate." "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 3:36 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Jun 20, 2009 3:05 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:59 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:57 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:55 PM:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3404 "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:33 PM:
Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/06/humanitarian-aid-worker-torture-only.html
Here’s a link for the stubborn ones:
Why We NEED Torture "To Keep Us Safe"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13940 "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:33 PM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYov5o5_2s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newshoggers.com%2Fblog%2F2009%2F05%2Fif-major-alexander-says-torture-doesnt-work-believe-him.html&feature=player_embedded "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:33 PM:
Dick Cheney says that torturing detainees has saved American lives. That claim is patently false. Cheney's torture policy was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of American servicemen and women.
Major Matthew Alexander is a credible witness - he was a U.S. military interrogator for 14 years and received a Bronze Star for leading the team that tracked down Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq and, at the time, a higher priority target than Osama bin Laden. Mr. Alexander has personally conducted hundreds of interrogations and supervised over a thousand of them…without using torture. "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:32 PM:
New declassified information reveals that the CIA’s torture programs produced false information. September 11th mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitted he made up stories under torture, refuting a long-standing and still-used Bush administration argument that harsh interrogation yields highly valuable information. Rachel Maddow provides the details.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/20090616_new_torture_details_on_rachel_maddow/ "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:32 PM:
"The reason for the government's justification of the invasion of Iraq was a lie based on a confession coerced under torture.
"This was the stunt the American government pulled to get a war going in Iraq.
"I have to wonder just how long it's going to take the American people to wake up, and just what form their rage will take when they finally comprehend what has been done in their names, with the blood of their families, and their tax dollars to the Iraqi people, all based on a lie from a tortured confession." "
wtf wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:31 PM:
Too true; however, Cog, one must first make sure they have the right enemy. A lot of the “terrorists” being tortured are innocent individuals. In the countries the U.S. has invaded, there is a “bounty” for “turning in” alleged terrorists. In other words, if you, Cogito, don’t like Leonard, you would turn Leonard in as a “terrorist” for a “bounty” and a “good guy” badge in one of these countries. Poor Leonard would then be tortured for information he does not possess based solely on your greed and dislike of him. "
Pat Maple wrote on Jun 20, 2009 2:16 PM:
Nextel wrote on Jun 20, 2009 1:29 PM:
That's a crock a sh#T Cog and You know it! "
Nextel wrote on Jun 20, 2009 1:25 PM:
Nextel wrote on Jun 20, 2009 1:18 PM:
The Geneva Convention rules of engagement and treatment of prisoners was good enough for Nazi Germany and the Japanese, but not good enough these cowards??? "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 1:17 PM:
" Cog, your definition of torture seems entirely to hinge entirely on the question of lasting physical damage, with little or no regard for pain and agony.
To me, this seems spurious and more than a little self serving. The commons definition of the word, as laid out by Merriam Webster doesn't even mention lasting physical damage.
-This concern about the definition of torture leads me to believe that some would even rule out a good slap in the head with a bull whip if that's all it would take to get a terrorist to confess that he knows the location of the dirty bomb in a U.S. city. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 12:58 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 12:50 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 20, 2009 12:31 PM:
To me, this seems spurious and more than a little self serving. The commons definition of the word, as laid out by Merriam Webster doesn't even mention lasting physical damage.
Main Entry:
1tor·ture Listen to the pronunciation of 1torture
Pronunciation:
\ˈtȯr-chər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle French, from Old French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquēre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drāhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
Date:1540
1 a: anguish of body or mind : agony b: something that causes agony or pain
2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
I realize that your need to defend the indefensible has driven you new heights of sophism but I think our time would be better spent discussing what actually is, as opposed to what you might wish was. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 12:04 PM:
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 12:00 PM:
How can a rubber replica of Jesus be the King of Kings and not be the King of Kings, Billy? I'm anxious to read your twisted response.
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:06 AM:"Brian,you must come to grips with life. A rubber "replica of Jesus" is not really your Lord and Savior. It's a piece of rubber. Does it look like Jesus? What,exactly,does your vision of Jesus look like?Do you imagine he is actually a rubber sex toy?Do you rage against plastic Jesus statues perched on car dashboards? Is THAT a fitting place for the King of Kings?Do you worship a painting of Jesus in your home? Do you know that for Christians it is a sin to worship idols?If the rubber sex toys are,as you claim,idols that must be revered, who is sinning? " "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 11:43 AM:
One would conclude from your posts that you oppose all torture and that the previous administration was wrong? "
-I can't even begin to fathom how my posts indicate I am against torture.
But then I tend to think on a rational level, unlike you, Billy. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 11:37 AM:
" I understand your need to put words in my mouth Brian, in order to make your pitiful argument. It's not worth the time to correct you again.
-You are the last person that is in any position to be accusing anyone of putting words in your mouth given you tried to make it look like I consider Jesus Christ an idol to justify your twisted belief that a rubber dildo made in the image of him should not be offensive. "
Nextel wrote on Jun 20, 2009 11:33 AM:
"Have any of You pacifist pukes seen "taken."
Nothing like comparing real World History and current events to Hollywood movies and tv series like 24. Way to think outside the Fox box Cog. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:47 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:45 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:44 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:36 AM:
One would conclude from your posts that you oppose all torture and that the previous administration was wrong? "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:09 AM:
Please don't remind us that you find someone being a "Self-proclaimed Christian" more offensive than a
"As dictated by the Koran terrorist". "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 10:03 AM:
But I suspect you'll just regard this site as right wing propaganda as an excuse not to visit it. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 9:57 AM:
voter,
in case you're not aware of the movement
to reform Islam, here's the link. Getting Islam modernized will not only eliminate a lot of the terrorism but it will also get the Muslim world to understand that so much of the Koran
justifies the terrorists actions and there is no place in modern society
for these ancient and barbaric philosophies. "
Brian wrote on Jun 20, 2009 9:26 AM:
You have no soul if you believe torturing either human or animal is justifiable. "
-The Koran justifies this. At least you seem to understand that those who commit acts of terror justify their acts
because the Koran dictates it. These terrorists have no soul. But those who use enhanced interrogation techniques to gain information from terrorists in order to save people from terrorists attacks aren't soulless as you insist they are. And you'll just keep on advancing the notion that we should treat terrorists with kid gloves because they are misunderstood even though they are doing what they do (as dictated by the Koran) can be changed with a few good sessions of Psychoanalysis. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 20, 2009 9:18 AM:
We all know how that works. "
Rhodie wrote on Jun 20, 2009 9:00 AM:
What is the strongest action you would justify to prevent 2000 husbands/wives, mother/fathers and all the others from living through another collapsing tower?
Personally I think drugs may be the better answer, isolation in conjuction with drugs may work really well.
But what I think would be the best thing would be to realease info on some of the attacks averted. At least let us know that what they are doing is having an affect. Show us the numbers. Maybe put a time limit on in, things from 5 years or more ago are released. The info used is outdated now and a side benifit could be the people who gave us that info would suddenly see that their options for going back to their friends they betrayed may suddenly remember a few more names if they could be sent somewhere other than to their betrayed friends. "
voter wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:47 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:36 AM:
voter wrote on Jun 20, 2009 8:29 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 20, 2009 7:41 AM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 20, 2009 7:26 AM:
" Torture: Anything that leaves permanent disfigurement or physical disability. "
Mr Maple, a man can have his testicles hooked up to electrodes and a with a low current running through them and experience the most excruciating pain imaginable.
A month later, if this torment was conducted by a real professional interrogator, there will be no physical evidence that anything ever happened.
Would you argue, then, that the victim had not been tortured? "
Cogito wrote on Jun 19, 2009 9:45 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 19, 2009 9:30 PM:
" Leonard, beginning on Jun 18, 2009 5:48 PM up to the present.....all excellent posts and right on the money!
Cogito: ***Listening*** to John McCain was torture for me. LOL! "
I'd like to add Sarah Palin and George Bush to that list. Definitely painful listening to them speak!...
"You betcha!"
UGH! "
Cogito wrote on Jun 19, 2009 3:17 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 19, 2009 3:10 PM:
danielh wrote on Jun 19, 2009 2:29 PM:
http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2009/06/16/opinion/letters/ltr_zarefakis_090616.txt "
voter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 1:42 PM:
1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions. "
Pat Maple wrote on Jun 19, 2009 1:33 PM:
Trackback wrote on Jun 19, 2009 12:59 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 19, 2009 8:53 AM:
Cogito: ***Listening*** to John McCain was torture for me. LOL! "
Gator wrote on Jun 19, 2009 8:24 AM:
country the would make the hair stand on the back of your neck.. I believe
what we are about to see in Iran will make my point. As for the so called
terrorist be it al Qaeda or the Taliban, they would gladly disembowel your
entire family, make you watch and then kill you over a 4 or 5 day span…
My guess is if we want to act like the last Boy Scout we do so at our own
Peril. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 19, 2009 7:23 AM:
voter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 7:17 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 19, 2009 5:05 AM:
" Dogs, you are so right. One thing these animals understand is brutality
I am trying to think of the last conflict in which both sides didn't believe that their enemies were animals who only understood brutality.
I'm not saying that these Jihadi pig rapers aren't the worst of the worst but, if the moral purity of your enemies was the standard by which you decided whether or not you would apply torture, torture would be standard operating procedure in every American conflict.
The reason we don't commit war crimes isn't because our enemies are good people, it is because we, as a nation, are. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 19, 2009 4:57 AM:
" Leonard, you don't think that the member of the Bush White House with the most military experience, was privy to the goings on of the military? There's no doubt in my mind he knew what was happening,
I am not sure it was a crime for someone outside of the chain of command to know about the waterboarding. What specific charge were you thinking should be lodged against Powell?
Failure to report? "
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 10:33 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:20 PM:
The Jap`s were very brutal in WW11, the Marine Corps beat them at their own game, they became more brutal, to all you liberals be glad they did. "
dogs4you wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:16 PM:
At times I wonder what Daniel Pearls wife thinks of Waterboarding since she lost her husband to terrorists who promote torture. I doubt she`s OK with it.
Waterboarding--- a means to an end, if it gets results. One result will do. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 8:22 PM:
Gator wrote on Jun 18, 2009 8:01 PM:
Waterboarding and are taught how to beat it… "
Leonard wrote on Jun 18, 2009 7:28 PM:
I'm sure Benedict Powell would fall into this group too. I wonder how popular Obama would be for putting him up on charges.
I am just curious to know what you are basing this one on. The State Department doesn't handle interrogations, does it? "
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 6:57 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:52 PM:
" I find Voters reference to Ghandi quite interesting, because Ghandi is the perfect person to reinforce my point. Ghandi was a pie in the sky pacifist who was murdered by a fanatic who disagreed with him. I'm not motivated by having an early funeral, no matter how grandiose and well attended it may be.
Somehow, you managed to forget to mention the fact that he also tossed the British Empire out of India.
A minor accomplishment, to be sure, but I thought it ought to be mentioned. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:50 PM:
" WTF, you call waterboarding a "war crime". What do you call beheadings of journalists and other people? What do you call suicide bombing of civilians? What do you call IEDs placed in places where they either kill our soldiers, or kill innocents who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? What do you call explosives placed in toys in order to maim or kill the children of your enemies?
Those are also war crimes. Of course, if we don't prosecute our own offenders, we look pretty ridiculous complaining when our guys get tortured. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:48 PM:
" Leonard, maybe this could be a good thing. At least its finally got them to stop whining about Nixon. But remember Arne, If Bush and Cheney are brought up on charges, it wouldn't be fair to leave out our plastic fantastic Speaker of the House. She was complicit in her knowledge of waterboarding, and never even once protested it's use until it was politically expedient.
If that's the package, I'm good with it. Anyone who was complicit in this nonsense should be brought to justice, regardless of political affiliation. "
dogs4you wrote on Jun 18, 2009 4:07 PM:
Concerning Ghandi, he should have stopped by Denny`s and packed on a few pounds.
Waterboarding goes back to the 17th and 18th century used in France.
The God of Christians promotes love and love your enemies, where as the Qur'an`s instructons in Suiah 8-60 is quite the opposite saying strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah.
Remember Daniel Pearl, he was murdered and beheaded by his captors in 2-1-2002.
I would think that Aasen is busy at work getting his next addition of "Love Thy Neighbor" ready when he is again allowed to send more of the same. I slept knowing President Bush was on the job, now I have restless nights wondering how "Barry" is going to pay for his "Yes we Can" and "Change" rant. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:44 PM:
voter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 2:20 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 2:08 PM:
voter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 1:47 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 1:28 PM:
wtf wrote on Jun 18, 2009 1:26 PM:
Pat Maple wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:34 PM:
Ghandi was talking about murder and the prevention of it...not how it was prevented. The definition of a war death is much different than the definition of murder. There are no heroes in murder. Within broken lies an opportunity for repair. "
danielh wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:11 AM:
danielh wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:09 AM:
danielh wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:08 AM:
danielh wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:04 AM:
WingIt wrote on Jun 18, 2009 10:54 AM:
I justify it in my book if its going to save soldiers lives. War is war and you have to fight to WIN not be PC correct. I wonder how many soldiers lives could have been saved if we didn't have to be so PC correct? "
voter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 10:29 AM:
Cogito, one atrocity does not justify another. As Ghandi said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 8:11 AM:
wtf wrote on Jun 18, 2009 7:51 AM:
Therein lies the crux of the matter....BOTH sides - Dem and Repub - are equally guilty, therefore, they "want to move on" and pretend this never happened when technically they are guilty of violating international law and war crimes. "
Pat Maple wrote on Jun 18, 2009 7:08 AM:
I say torure away...they'll survive. It beats letting someone else die...THAT would be hard on MY conscience. "
t jefferson wrote on Jun 18, 2009 6:39 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 18, 2009 6:06 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:20 AM:
This guy is becoming the Jerome Kinderman of the left. "
Comments on this story are now closed.