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On Lodi City Council prayers

Discussion points out need for minority to respect the majority — and vice versa


Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:34 AM PDT

Sometimes it takes a scandal to get people talking about something they should have discussed long ago. While it's never comfortable to have outsiders meddling in your business, sometimes they can hold up a mirror forcing us to examine ourselves and decide whether we like what we see.

The controversy over public prayer at the Lodi City Council meetings is for the most part, as one comment eloquently put it, a "tempest in a teapot." While it's apparent now that at least one person was offended enough to raise the issue, it's something that has gone on in Lodi for years and never bothered anyone until now — at least not enough for them to get vocal about it.

And perhaps that's a problem.

For the record, I have no problem at all with public prayer. I don't mind people expressing their faith in my presence, even if it's not a faith I share. I think belief is a beautiful thing, even if we are expressing it in different ways.

I think that's true of most people. And while it's tempting to say, "Most people aren't bothered, so who cares?" I don't think that's the right thing to say.

It's very easy, when you're a member of a mainstream group, to take that status for granted. People in the mainstream can make a hundred different hurtful comments and never realize it. We don't mean to be hurtful, or to exclude, but when you're in a situation where most people you interact with have the same background you do, it's easy to forget that there are other experiences out there.

Have you ever been in a situation when someone said something about a group of people, not knowing you were a member of that group? Your immediate reaction is usually anger or hurt, but because of the situation, you have to weigh whether to respond. Maybe a friend said something and you value the friendship over the comment; maybe a co-worker said something and it's not worth risking a peaceful work environment; maybe a stranger said something and you can't know how they'll react to a gentle correction. And even if you decide it's not worth making waves, it still bugs you, a little, and you feel suddenly very "other."

This is where the mirror comes in. It can reflect a truth that needs to be told, that people may have been keeping silent out of respect. An outsider can sometimes show us clearly what we'd be unable to see if a friend or family member showed us.

Under the mirror presented by the Freedom from Religion Foundation, Bob Johnson said, "We are a Christian community, regardless of whether people like it or not."

Now, this quote has people upset, though I don't believe Mr. Johnson meant it the way it sounded. But just because you don't intend to step on someone doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

The key word in Mr. Johnson's statement, the one that has people stirred up, is "Christian," but it shouldn't be. The word that people ought to focus on is "community."

Lodi is a community, and it's a wonderful, vibrant, diverse community. But, as in many communities, Lodi is also a place where it's easy for members of majority groups — whether that majority trait is ethnic, religious, sexual orientation, socio-economic, or ability — to lose sight of that diversity. It's human nature to believe other people are just like you, in experiences, beliefs, abilities and attractions, unless you are constantly reminded they are not.

There many who follow the Muslim, Sikh and Buddhist paths in Lodi, and others who follow different paths or none at all. But they aren't as visible in the community as Christians are, and so some of us may forget them.

A community cannot be strong unless it is inclusive, so that everyone is encouraged to contribute to the community's success (or, to quote from my own faith, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand"). Here in Lodi, where our community is very diverse, this means that those in the minority must be tolerant of the majority — and vice versa.

While public prayer is not in any way, shape or form a bad thing, prayer sponsored by the local government has the potential to be.

If the invocation at the City Council meetings gives equal time to religious leaders from all of Lodi's religious groups, then I don't believe that there's any complaint to be made, even if there is the occasional mention of a religious figure.

But if one religion is getting the majority of the time so that other groups are being excluded — whether it's consciously or not — from being able to comfortably participate in local government, then there's a problem.

Lodi has tried the non-denominational invocation, and it's not working. If it was, a group from Michigan wouldn't be poking their nose in Lodi's business. It may be too late to begin enforcing the policy currently in place; or maybe it was just too easy to forget about it in the first place.

The way I see it, there are two ways to solve this problem: Either make sure that all of Lodi's religious groups have equal time to present the invocation (including atheist and agnostic groups), or begin each meeting with a moment of silence, in which people can offer their own, silent, individual prayers, or simply gather their thoughts and read the agenda before the meeting begins.

But ignoring the problem and continuing on a path that obviously makes some members of our community feel excluded from its governance will only make matters worse. Because if any member of Lodi's community feels as though they cannot have a say, or that their words matter less than someone else's, we've divided our community.

Kyla Cathey is a copy editor at the Lodi News-Sentinel.

Reader Feedback

Lodian wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:49 PM:

" A moment of silence respects everyone. "

Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:19 PM:

" Except for the inanity of it.

"Would you all please rise and join us in a pointless moment of silence - in which you may think about what ever you want..."

Why bother?

Those predisposed to prayer should get their fill before leaving home or stop by the church for several hours if they feel the need. "

Lodian wrote on Jun 18, 2009 1:37 PM:

" A moment of silence is appropriate. "

Robb wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:48 PM:

" I agree with the moment of silence, ANY prayer in a public forum, while it may be welcome by some, it is abuse to few..

it seems to me that the Nazi's thought they were right too... "

wtf wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:02 AM:

" You're welcome, OTH; I totally agree with you. "

OTH wrote on Jun 14, 2009 7:21 PM:

" wtf

Thank you for the Desideratra. If only man could live by that alone "

dogs4you wrote on Jun 14, 2009 5:20 PM:

" The house is OK ??? It`s fine for the person that built it, but not for me. Burning wood for heat is incomplete combustion, not good to breath. From the pic, it looks like the roof needed to be mowed.

Billy, you need a mountain for a house like that, we are flat landers. "

Lodian wrote on Jun 14, 2009 11:53 AM:

" The house is pretty is the pictures and maybe in a fairy tale but I wouldn't want to live there full time... maybe a little visit would do. "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 5:08 PM:

" Thanks, guys! The only real problem I had with that house was the compost toilet. Blecchh!!! "

sam wrote on Jun 12, 2009 1:22 PM:

" Ha... glad I live in the county !!!! "

Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:47 PM:

" I liked that house, wtf. Very cool.

But can you envision the myopic uptights at Lodi Building Dept. issuing a permit for THAT??! LOL. Not bloody likely. "

sam wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:38 PM:

" wtf... very cool house indeed. Thanks. "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Thanks, sam! ;) The following link is off point, but the house is too cool, so I'm adding the link. Check it out! Make sure to scroll down and see the inside.

http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm

My grandparents had a house built into the side of a hill in Colorado, from the street it looked like a one story; but from the backyard, you could see it was a two story. And I'd like to add that Mother Earth is an excellent insulator. "

sam wrote on Jun 12, 2009 10:30 AM:

" wtf, as always you have me chuckling with your last "prayer". Keep up the wit ... you are appreciated. "

sam wrote on Jun 12, 2009 10:27 AM:

" Kayla, what a great editorial. Thank you.

I also would like to hear from Kayla more often. "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:04 AM:

" Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy. "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:04 AM:

" Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

(cont) "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:03 AM:

" If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

(cont) "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:02 AM:

" This is the text of the "Desiderata" which is as spiritually generic as you could get.

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

(cont) "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:59 AM:

" But, I am not all heartless cynicism. I also kept having that old "song" by Les Crane from 1971 keep popping into my head; the one where he spoke the "Desiderata" set to music. Was able to find a music video on it. Talk about bringing back memories!

Anyone else remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-hGKruOYQ "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:56 AM:

" I (we) plan on placing friends in executive positions. I (we) will pocket what funds I (we) can get away with, but see that the rest is spent on necessary social improvements that I (we) deem acceptable. You will have no voice in my (our) decisions any more than you ever had. You will have to accept my (our) judgment which you will and if I (we) succeed in fooling the public, the public will only have themselves to blame. For I warn you that I (we) am as crooked as any politician can be. Despite my (our) unsavory profession, I (we) will try to keep all of you as happy as possible after I (we) take care of ourselves." "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:56 AM:

" This thought was toodling around in my brain regarding prayer before the CC meeting before the CC preys on the citizens of Lodi. ;)

Make it a real government prayer. You know, generic, and then all the different religions could take turns reading the generic politician's prayer:

(cont) "

Cogito wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:49 AM:

" Wtf, LOL, no I didn't notice I'd made the error. Can one make a Freudian slip with ones fingers? "

wtf wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:45 AM:

" Cogito, your post on Jun 11, 2009 at 7:59 PM gave me a chuckle. I don't know if it was a typo or intentional; either way, thanks for a laugh. ;)

"...I too believe Jesus was chastising those who prey in public..."

Shouldn't that be "pray" in public? Unless you were thinking of recent headlines, then it would be: "Jesus was chastising those who prey ON the public." LOL! "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:59 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:35 PM:
" Leonard, it's "can of worms" and "ball of wax".


Touché.

:) "

Cogito wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:35 PM:

" Leonard, it's "can of worms" and "ball of wax". Sorry I got my original Biblical languages mixed up. But, you're right about Mounce, she's missing a personal compass. But she's a loyal little puppet. "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:16 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:59 PM:

" Jesus is not condemning public prayer,rather, he condemning self-gratifying prayers with improper motivations that seek approval from people, and are unconcerned about God".


In my experience, there is seldom a difference, especially when you are dealing with the likes of Mounce. That woman has taken the prostitution of religion for political gain to a regional high point. "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:13 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:59 PM:
" Leonard, you say you'll go by Jesus' own words. Do you really have an original text and are able to read ancient Hebrew?


No, but I've spent enough time studying the Gospels to know that they were written in Greek, not Hebrew and I have read them in Greek.

Of course, the question of whether Christ himself spoke Greek or Aramaic is a whole different ball of worms. "

Cogito wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:59 PM:

" Leonard, you say you'll go by Jesus' own words. Do you really have an original text and are able to read ancient Hebrew? I am impressed. If not, you are just reading from an interpretation. I too believe Jesus was chastising those who prey in public, and not in private, and referring to those people as hypocrites. That being said, I don't believe a denominational prayer has any place in a public forum. I don't believe that those in attendance necessarily believe in the words being spoken. A moment of silence would be most appropriate for each to either seek their own guidance, or simply enjoy the quiet. On the website "Into Thy Word: Teaching people how to study the Bible", their take on the passage you quote is this: " Jesus is not condemning public prayer,rather, he condemning self-gratifying prayers with improper motivations that seek approval from people, and are unconcerned about God". I think this the proper interpretation. "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 5:11 PM:

" Ruth1940 wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:35 PM:

Anyway public prayers should be eliminated out of respect for any who believe Jesus meant it when he directed in Matthew 6 to pray in private.


Indeed. "

Ruth1940 wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:35 PM:

" I doubt Lodi is any more a Christian city than our nation is a Christian nation. Michael Lind clearly explained the history that shows America is not a Christian nation in his recent article: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/04/14/christian_nation/

Here Rob Boston listed in detail how some might have mistakenly got a different idea: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/04/14/christian_nation/

It has been clear that the 14th Amendment changed federal religious guidelines so they also apply to local governments ever since Vashti McCollum won McCollum v. Board of Education in the Supreme Court in 1948.

Anyway public prayers should be eliminated out of respect for any who believe Jesus meant it when he directed in Matthew 6 to pray in private. "

Bohica wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:50 PM:

" "Have you ever been in a situation when someone said something about a group of people, not knowing you were a member of that group? Your immediate reaction is usually anger or hurt, but because of the situation, you have to weigh whether to respond." This is the entire story in a nutshell. If you answer the question posed in the 1st part of this comment with a yes, then YOU are the issue/problem. I would presume that you are of a generation that has been taught, incorrectly, that YOU are the center of any situation. Example:Britain would be considered a free nation with a civilized culture; would YOU really expect that in a scenario posed in this story that the "Brits" should bow to YOUR sense of sensitivity or in most cases; over-sensitivity where someone's feelings would be hurt?! Exactly! YOU are NOT the center of society whether you are in the majority or minority. YOU are part of a group! Call it a neighborhood, town, a city, a metropolis,whatever...it's still a group and as such ALL must be considered as part of that group with all of it's "dynamics" whether positive or negative. WHEW! What a rambling!Sorry. "

wtf wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:17 PM:

" Taffy, GREAT post at 12:15 PM! I, too, would like to hear more from Kyla. "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:10 PM:

" patton1 wrote on Jun 11, 2009 2:47 PM:
" Jesus was not against public prayer. That is incorrect interpretation as I am sure you know. He was against people praying aloud as to appear to be Christians when their actions were otherwise.


I am glad to hear that you personally know that what Christ really meant. Personally, I will just stick to his actual words.

I have no doubt that Mounce is quick to pray in Church and anywhere else she thinks she has an audience. The women has never hesitated to prostitute her religion for political gain. "

patton1 wrote on Jun 11, 2009 2:47 PM:

" Jesus was not against public prayer. That is incorrect interpretation as I am sure you know. He was against people praying aloud as to appear to be Christians when their actions were otherwise. I have seen several members of the cc in church. They dont seem hypocritival at all. "

Leonard wrote on Jun 11, 2009 12:46 PM:

" You know, when it comes to public prayer I take Christ's position on the issue.

Jesus was dead set against it. Christ said that those who prayed in public were hypocrites (Matthew 6:5).

His words seem all the more pertinent in relation to these ridiculous displays by the City Council.

I have dined in private with two members of the current council on several occasions and I have eaten in restaurants with all of them and I have never heard a single utterance of Grace or any other prayer of thanks from any of there mouthes.

Be that as it may, you can bet that when the Baptist preacher is up before the group hawking votes JoAnne Mounces lips are moving right along with him. The Lord only knows what is actually going through her little mind but I suppose he does know and she will be held accountable for her shameless pandering. in the next world if not in this one. "

Taffy wrote on Jun 11, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Thoughtful and well-written.
km — I don't recall reading in Kyla's editorial that she was "scared" of prayer and Christianity. Or, that she was "offended." Kyla is simply commenting (very balanced, in my opinion) on an item in the news that affects our community.
Her comment "I think belief is a beautiful thing, even if we are expressing it in different ways." certainly underscores her open-mindedness in this issue.
Personally, I'd like to hear more from Kyla. "

ccinlodi wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:40 AM:

" I am an atheist, I have never felt excluded or left out of the proceedings just because a prayer is said asking God or Jesus to give guidance.I have never been made to join in on the prayer nor has anyone ever asked me why I did not pray...I am not so egotistical to think my way of thinking suits everyone, I believe it is this diversity that makes this country strong. I think the person who brought suit must have a self-esteem issue and they have my sympathy, but not my support in this matter. I say "allow all prayers to be said, take from the words what wisdom you can and ignore those that you think do not impart widsom" "

liforiley wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:35 AM:

" Good grief, this woman is a copy editor at the Lodi News-Sentinel? No wonder the paper is looking more like the Stockton Record every day.

It's obvious the City Council needs diversity and tolerance training to assume the insanity of political correctness.
We are a Christian community because the majority of people living here are Christian. If that inhibits a Soroastrian from attending council meetings...so be it. "

km wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:44 AM:

" Kayla, With all the problems facing us in our country, state and city, you take the one positive thing that happens in a city council meeting and want to get rid of it. What is it about prayer and Christianity that scare you? Is it about equal time for your beliefs? Why haven't you spoken up before if you were so offended? How does beginning a cc meeting with prayer make people feel that they don't have a say or their words matter less? How does a prayer keep you from participating in a cc meeting? If you take away Christians rights and silence them, are you doing to Christians what you are accusing them of doing to people who follow other paths? Respect and acceptance of others goes both ways. "

wtf wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:27 AM:

" Excellent article, Kyla! However, I would like to say that it wasn't Bob's reference to being Christian that tripped my personal trigger; it was his added phrase "whether they like it or not" - just sounded too combative.

But, overall, your article nails it. Lodi, as a community, would be better served if we were more "inclusive" and less exclusive because, from my point of view, learning about others is much more positive and joyous than focusing on fear and perceived differences. "

Stella wrote on Jun 11, 2009 6:28 AM:

" Wow, this is a wonderfully reasoned look at the issue. I hope all of Lodi reads it, and that it makes them think of what it is like to be the "other." "

Comments on this story are now closed.