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Group may sue city of Lodi over prayers at council meetings
A national organization is threatening to sue the city of Lodi because of Christian prayers said before Lodi City Council meetings.
On May 21, the city received a letter from Madison, Wis.-based nonprofit Freedom From Religion Foundation asking the city to stop allowing pastors to say prayers in the name of Jesus Christ.
"The problem is that Lodi is a very diverse population, with many diverse backgrounds and even non-believers, and they are made to be outsiders in their own community when Jesus is invoked," said Rebecca Kratz, the foundation's attorney.
But Bill Cummins, pastor at Bear Creek Community Church, said when he gives council prayers, he is simply following a more than 200-year U.S. tradition.
"I find it almost amusing that this organization would threaten a lawsuit over the use of one five-letter word that is not profane," Cummins said.
After receiving a complaint from a Lodi resident earlier this year, the foundation watched online video archives from 55 invocations from 2007 to May 6's council meeting. They found 39 had a reference to Jesus Christ.
The Lodi City Council will discuss how it wants to address the possibility of litigation during closed session Wednesday.
When the city clerk's office sends out invitations to churches, it includes the city's policy that any invocations must be "non-sectarian and non-denominational," city spokesman Jeff Hood said. The council established that policy in March 2006.
It invites any religious groups that have previously given invocations and any group that has expressed interest in participating.
Meetings at a glance
Here are what other governmental entities do before meetings:Council members started doing invocations in the early '70s, Hood said. The council asked local religious leaders to participate in the mid-'70s, Hood said.
The letter states that Mayor Larry Hansen said he knew the city was in violation of court case law by having an invocation. He made the comments during a 2006 debate on whether "In God We Trust" should be in the council chambers.
Hansen said he has expected that the city would eventually have to deal with the Christian-centered invocations.
He said he does not know what the city will do until the council talks to City Attorney Steve Schwabauer about the threatened lawsuit. But he believes the city might have to change its policy in order to avoid legal action. He suggested possibly a moment of silence or a stricter set of rules on what can be said during the invocation time.
"It would be very easy to say, 'You know, we are going to fight this all the way,' but they are citing the U.S. Supreme Court, so I don't think we would have any opportunity to overcome that," Hansen said.
Councilwoman Susan Hitchcock does not believe the policy should be changed, but instead the city should focus on enforcing it.
"I think that our current policy is designed to eliminate the marginalization of other religions," she said.
The church community will support the Lodi City Council in whatever decision is made, said Cummins, who was one of the pastors cited in the complaint, for using Jesus Christ in six of his prayers before the council.
But he does not think any of his prayers have violated the city's non-sectarian, non-denomination clauses because he has never mentioned a specific "brand" of Christianity. He also said the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate start sessions with Christian prayers.
"When I pray, it's for council wisdom, protection of police and firefighters and new financial resources to come to our city to provide services," Cummins said.
In three of his four prayers, Reverend Alan Kimber did not mention any of the Christian-centric words the foundation was noting. He said he tries to not mention direct scripture references or Christian dogma, although in his first prayer he inadvertently asked people to bow their heads.
"I do think it's a sad reflection on where we are," he said. "With all we are facing as a country and a city, that we have to spend energy in this area seems strangely inappropriate."
He said the city could offer an invocation for those who wish to attend outside the chambers before the council meeting. He also suggested that religious groups should include prayer for elected leaders in religious ceremonies.
One thing he would not be in favor of is a moment of silence.
"It gives the impression that there is a bereavement," Kimber said. "It may suggest God is dead."
While she has had no personal problems with the prayers, Councilwoman JoAnne Mounce said she will wait to hear from Schwabauer to see if it is a violation. She is surprised that a citizen would take a complaint to national group instead of talking with a council member.
"I would really hope if any of our citizens have a problem with what the city council is doing, they would contact us personally. Nobody has come to me and complained," she said. If the complaint is accurate, Councilman Bob Johnson said the city may have to change its policy. "I do know they open the U.S. Congress and Supreme Court with a prayer," Johnson said. "If it's good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for livable, lovable Lodi?"
Contact reporter Maggie Creamer at maggiec@lodinews.com.

Reader Feedback
Gator wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:35 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 5, 2009 5:32 PM:
I suspect reciting their prayers in a City Council Meeting would only serve to further upset him. "
what22 wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:19 AM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:09 AM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 5, 2009 8:06 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 4, 2009 6:13 PM:
Sorry, Audi, I didn't mean to leave you high and dry. I was so amazed at your dishonesty with the first part of your post, I missed the fact that you don't read what others write.
If you will read the posts, you will see which of the loving Christians want the non-Christians to forego public meetings and to leave this Christian community. But it starts with you reading the posts. "
voter wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:38 PM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM:
None of this was an issue until a few from far away attempted to stir the pot. Why are they affraid of the name of Jesus? "
voter wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:29 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:21 PM:
Who is preventing you from praying?
Who?
Name names, Audi.
Who is keeping you from praying?
Or are you sore because you want everyone else to have to pray? Is that it? "
voter wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:03 PM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 1:03 PM:
Historically Lodi has been a Christian community and that community is still a strong presence.
BTW, what's harmful about a prayer that asks for wisdom guidance, the best for our city, safety, etc? Sounds like a good thing to me. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 PM:
Audi, you're being ridiculous.
To try to pretend that others are somehow preventing you from praying is assinine. I feel safe in suggesting nobody in Lodi cares if you stay up 24 hours a day praying.
The problem, that you intentionally deny, is when city council members state that this is a "Christian community", to the exclusion of all others. The problem, that you intentionally deny, is when other citizens, fanned by a councilpersons assertion, start demanding others leave town.
But you knew that. "
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:52 AM:
They are guilty of exactly what they accuse others of. "
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:42 AM:
Is this the best argument Ms. Kratz can muster? A religious belief has no bearing on the status as a citizen of Lodi. Just drive around Lodi and take note of all the various churches. Nearly every religious train of thought is represented. No one's citizenship has been revoked because they belong to a non-Christian church.
Therefore we must ask what Ms. Kratz real agenda is? Is it to pad her weak resume? Make herself nationally relevant? Foolishly attempt to place her finite ideals above God infinite wisdom? Appease her fear? Guilt? All of the above? What is it, Ms. Kratz? "
sam wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:24 AM:
He says he believes he does not have the right to enforce his beliefs on others. Kudos to Arnie. "
Brian wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:03 AM:
I wonder if Obama is going to bring the subject up on his Mideast tour?
-If a person knew nothing about Saudi Arabia they would think it was full of a bunch of men given the majority of the pictures we see of Saudi Arabia are a bunch of men walking around together in dirty nightshirts and checkered tablecloths on their heads. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 4, 2009 7:08 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 3, 2009 6:37 PM:
Before they run the city into the ground financially they are asking for God's guidance?
That is an insult to my God. "
sam wrote on Jun 3, 2009 5:50 PM:
Check out Chop (Charles) Keenan against Half Moon Bay. Chop is a dear friend of mine. Cities cannot just take landowners rights away. Chop also proved a city cannot declare bankruptcy to get out of paying.
Way to go Chop. "
sam wrote on Jun 3, 2009 5:44 PM:
Do you consider him a Republican still? Or is he now a kool aide drinking Obama supporter?
I do understand if you oppose gay marriage because of your religious beliefs, but I do think it is quickly becoming a non-paritsan issue. "
dyan wrote on Jun 3, 2009 4:44 PM:
Gator wrote on Jun 3, 2009 3:45 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 2, 2009 10:23 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:14 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 2, 2009 5:53 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:14 PM:
" Well, OK, Cog - when you wrote that you learned your Republican values at your church it must have been during one of your last meth-induced frenzies or whatever it is that you dopers have.
Weak.....
:( "
Lodian wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:08 PM:
" Dyan, there are only 3 categories of liberals, or Demoncrats for that matter. Fascists, Marxists, and the largest category of all, clueless. And they're all a bunch of angry little parasites. "
Cogito: Unless you are going for the laugh here this has got to be the most ignorant comment ever on these forums (well, almost! LOL!). Were you going for the laugh here, Cogito? I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but... "
Lodian wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:04 PM:
Acampo_Mom wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:25 PM:
What a ridiculous bunch of children.
I used to find these forums entertaining, interesting, or at the very least a way to kill time.
I don't believe I'll be back again. You're all embarrassing yourselves, and I feel embarrassed for you.
Sad "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:20 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:14 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:13 PM:
dyan: Yep, you and your right wingnut pals seem to be the most hateful of all. "
dyan wrote on Jun 2, 2009 1:40 PM:
He doesn't seem to know that liberals are not supposed to be hateful people. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:33 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:24 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:07 PM:
Robb wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:32 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:20 AM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:37 AM:
erikisawesome wrote on May 31, 2009 11:16 PM:
Acampo_Mom wrote on May 31, 2009 10:39 PM:
" Frank, I pray that what you are saying can not be true -- It's letter time Frank. "
You bet it's letter time! But don't waste your time writing a letter to the editor, write it to several news stations. Better yet...give them a call! "
stantaves wrote on May 31, 2009 7:09 PM:
Frank wrote on May 31, 2009 6:28 PM:
Frank wrote on May 31, 2009 6:20 PM:
How ignorant and unresponsible can we get? Deprive them of water? How stupid are our civic leaders?
This prayer lawsuit is NOTHING compared to the lawsuits coming down the pipline. "
Frank wrote on May 31, 2009 6:16 PM:
How about us be sued for screwing over new annexed residents? What is wrong with our city? "
Frank wrote on May 31, 2009 6:14 PM:
I hear they requested a permit for a new well.
Lodi said NO. Now they have no access to water except for a hose from a neighbor. Lodi will not provide city water.
I say we deserved to be sued for depriving them of water. How can we not give them water? Are we as a city that stupid? We annex the land and then deprive those in the area of basic services.
WTF. "
Cogito wrote on May 31, 2009 3:33 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on May 31, 2009 1:59 PM:
They both believe that they know better how their neighbors should live than their neighbors do.
Personally, I don't have much use for either of them. "
stantaves wrote on May 31, 2009 11:21 AM:
stantaves wrote on May 31, 2009 11:13 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on May 31, 2009 10:27 AM:
I remember questioning you at the time.
You said you learned all your Republican values at your church.
You can try to deny it or spin it or amend it in an attempt to de-politicize it now, but you were quite clear then that your godliness and sanctimony is rooted in your Republicanism and vice-versa.
Your church, you said, taught you your political values. "
Rhodie wrote on May 31, 2009 9:12 AM:
Anyway, if these are the religions represented and the prayer is for guidence in descision making then the prayer should be one that members of the council give weight to. Sorry, the attending audience is not making a descision so they can listen quietly or step outside if it offends them.
Anything that gets the desciding committees to think of something other than their own agendas has my full endorsement. Of course I wouldn't mind the councils being hooked up to some sort of lie detectors for every meeting as well. Because asking for wisdom in action doesn't mean you will follow it. "
Rhodie wrote on May 31, 2009 9:07 AM:
As to whose prayer, in whose name and which religions are represented I think they should be that of the representative body. If athiests Or whoever) want to represented on the board then put a canidate up. If there are Jews, Christians, Islamic, Wicca and Buddhists "
Rhodie wrote on May 31, 2009 9:02 AM:
"If Christians truly believe that prayer to the God of the Bible will sway some favor for us locals"
Just a point of clarification; All the pryaers before a deciding group that I have heard are for guidence, not favor. They are usually a prayer asking for wisdom and understanding. The difference is asking God to give you the job you really want (removing any blame from the individual if they don't get it) vs. asking God for the ability to get the job (placing the ability to act or not act on the individual).
In terms of the CC it can be looked at this way: Asking for wisdom to make the right choices can boil down to the little nagging voice in the back of their mind that says 'what I am voting on is bad/good for Lodi but my supporters want me to do what is opposite of what I think is right. I'm going to go against what I is best for me and do what is best for Lodi." Cont. "
Cogito wrote on May 31, 2009 8:27 AM:
Cogito wrote on May 31, 2009 1:00 AM:
Lodian wrote on May 31, 2009 12:55 AM:
I guess Cummins doesn't know the power behind this five letter word. "
Billy Rubin wrote on May 30, 2009 9:14 PM:
Did you change gods or churches, Cog? Because just a few weeks ago you were happily blogging that your church taught you all your Republican values.
Cogito wrote "I don't want my God associated with politics as they are today..."
Was your god associated with politics a couple of years ago when the Republicans had it all? Do you want your god to come back to the political forefront when the next election hits?
What changed, Cog? Jesus, you told us, was a staunch Republican, now you want him nowhere near it. When do you want him back "running things"? "
scott wrote on May 30, 2009 2:40 PM:
Cogito wrote on May 30, 2009 12:20 PM:
Leonard wrote on May 30, 2009 11:44 AM:
It is too bad that people don't understand that Satan is after the good and the bad. He'll remind you of every past sin, every dark moment, every foolish thing you ever did.
Wow! All that and the Presidency???
That Barack Obama must be one heck of a multi tasker! "
Leonard wrote on May 30, 2009 11:38 AM:
Try it. I have myself and I have the scars to prove it. "
Attitude wrote on May 30, 2009 11:04 AM:
It is too bad that people don't understand that Satan is after the good and the bad. He'll remind you of every past sin, every dark moment, every foolish thing you ever did. We must put on the shield of faith.What is that you say? Our great protection against every devilish, hurting word spoken against us. To hold it up against the enemy's onslaught is to extinguish every voice of fear and unbelief. "
Cogito wrote on May 30, 2009 10:51 AM:
Jenn H wrote on May 30, 2009 8:34 AM:
Brian wrote on May 30, 2009 8:27 AM:
Now this is ridiculous. At least they don't say Jesus Christ in their prayers, this group might say. "
Mad Dog wrote on May 30, 2009 1:33 AM:
I pray that this will resolve the problem. "
Cogito wrote on May 30, 2009 12:14 AM:
Leonard wrote on May 29, 2009 7:32 PM:
Leonard, in their own way, perhaps Satanists and Wiccans conduct the own version of prayer, who`s to say?
I don't know about Satanists but the Wiccans pray ad nauseum.
I had a cousin who got married in a Wiccan ceremony years ago and the ceremony went on forever. By the last half, I was praying to Jesus that I wouldn't die of old age before it was over. My dad was laughing his bass off at the whole thing. "
yeah you wrote on May 29, 2009 7:29 PM:
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 6:51 PM:
Leonard, in their own way, perhaps Satanists and Wiccans conduct the own version of prayer, who`s to say? "
Leonard wrote on May 29, 2009 6:33 PM:
Will someone please drop me a line when the Satanists or the Wiccans sign up to conduct the prayer?
It would be worth the price of the airline ticket to fly home and see that spectacle. "
Cogito wrote on May 29, 2009 5:58 PM:
voter wrote on May 29, 2009 5:49 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on May 29, 2009 5:47 PM:
Those who believe in nothing soon have fallen for the idea there is a magic man gazing at them from the clouds who is helping them think. They fall for the idea that praying would make George Bush a better man.
The "something" of their belief was nothing.
Far better to believe in something - reality.
I think pooreastside said it all for the Christian lot with, "I hope this group rots in hell."
A Christian mantra if ever I read one. "
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 5:42 PM:
davidd wrote on May 29, 2009 5:19 PM:
Whether or not they reference a particular religion, they still are of a religious nature. They give praise to a god, ask for its blessing and wisdom, and that bothers me.
Worse than this being a waste of time and tax dollars, it serves as a reminder that we have people who think that there is some outside force influencing our universe. "
wtf wrote on May 29, 2009 5:15 PM:
pooreastside wrote on May 29, 2009 5:13 PM:
Cogito wrote on May 29, 2009 5:08 PM:
sam wrote on May 29, 2009 4:20 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on May 29, 2009 4:10 PM:
warrenb1973 wrote on May 29, 2009 3:20 PM:
Very well said dogs4you... "
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 2:58 PM:
Cogito wrote on May 29, 2009 2:24 PM:
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 2:17 PM:
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 1:57 PM:
jbhiker wrote on May 29, 2009 12:17 PM:
onestooge wrote on May 29, 2009 12:09 PM:
kidsalami wrote on May 29, 2009 12:02 PM:
warrenb1973 wrote on May 29, 2009 12:00 PM:
onestooge wrote on May 29, 2009 11:51 AM:
onestooge wrote on May 29, 2009 11:48 AM:
warrenb1973 wrote on May 29, 2009 11:39 AM:
dogs4you wrote on May 29, 2009 11:28 AM:
jbhiker wrote on May 29, 2009 10:29 AM:
WRONG - This country was founded on LAWS. I Quote: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" "
onestooge wrote on May 29, 2009 10:21 AM:
jbhiker wrote on May 29, 2009 10:09 AM:
WRONG!! - We forget the LAW. Laws were passed because religious nut jobs were DEMANDING allegiance to THEIR god. Let's see.. Dark Ages, Crusades oh and War for American Independence. You know, George the Sovereign King of England and the New World? "
wtf wrote on May 29, 2009 10:04 AM:
Principal files complaint over missed high-five
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gEEwYxGf04lrUnvZkHK2YP1e0Z5gD98FJIG00
Lame. "
wtf wrote on May 29, 2009 10:00 AM:
This not only promotes diversity; but by providing insight into others, also promotes peace through understanding. "
wtf wrote on May 29, 2009 9:57 AM:
Thanks for the info! Then I don't see our fair city having any problem and think that my 'tempest in a teapot' may be an apt description. LOL! "
kidsalami wrote on May 29, 2009 9:39 AM:
gail1 wrote on May 29, 2009 9:30 AM:
Cogito wrote on May 29, 2009 9:25 AM:
Lodian wrote on May 29, 2009 9:03 AM:
Mazie wrote on May 29, 2009 9:02 AM:
ElBombero wrote on May 29, 2009 8:52 AM:
caveman wrote on May 29, 2009 8:51 AM:
ElBombero wrote on May 29, 2009 8:49 AM:
Mazie wrote on May 29, 2009 8:49 AM:
Mazie wrote on May 29, 2009 8:42 AM:
If you don't like it, leave our country! "
ElBombero wrote on May 29, 2009 8:38 AM:
Cogito wrote on May 29, 2009 8:38 AM:
peppier2 wrote on May 29, 2009 8:33 AM:
T & C wrote on May 29, 2009 8:32 AM:
ElBombero wrote on May 29, 2009 8:27 AM:
Journey wrote on May 29, 2009 8:18 AM:
Whoa Nellie! wrote on May 29, 2009 8:11 AM:
They are so unhappy with their own pathetic lives they look to stir-up anything to fulfill their need of self-importance. Code name: Loser. "
Journey wrote on May 29, 2009 8:02 AM:
Brian wrote on May 29, 2009 8:01 AM:
Brian wrote on May 29, 2009 7:58 AM:
be renamed? I wouldn't be surprised. "
wtf wrote on May 29, 2009 7:57 AM:
Sounds like a tempest in a teapot.
Besides JC doesn't seem to have helped our CC too much. LOL!
They want diversity? Let the CC invite some Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc. to give the invocation...do this with the Christians in a rotating fashion. "
Brian wrote on May 29, 2009 7:49 AM:
1143 wrote on May 29, 2009 7:48 AM:
Is this group an extension of ACORN? "
yeah you wrote on May 29, 2009 7:34 AM:
ra wrote on May 29, 2009 7:18 AM:
mjp wrote on May 29, 2009 7:03 AM:
Rhodie wrote on May 29, 2009 7:00 AM:
jbhiker wrote on May 29, 2009 6:56 AM:
Jenn H wrote on May 29, 2009 6:49 AM:
classof72 wrote on May 29, 2009 6:31 AM:
Acampo_Mom wrote on May 29, 2009 6:10 AM:
If someone doesn't want to participate in the prayer...then oh, I don't know...DON'T!
I don't care WHAT religion you are, it won't kill you to stop and say thanks once in a while (to whatever god you believe in). "
Comments on this story are now closed.