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Uproar at Lodi High

Now teachers earning their grades, too


Wednesday, February 4, 2009 2:42 PM PST

Comments (103 comment(s))

Lodi High is in an uproar, and for once it's not the students who are causing the ruckus — it's the teachers.

The controversy stems from Lodi Unified School District's policy of evaluating teachers once every two years. While there is usually not much controversy over the evaluations, this year many teachers feel that they are being evaluated unfairly. In the past, the evaluations were simply a formality. The school's administrators sat in the classroom and essentially gave most teachers a "satisfactory" rating on their report.

But this year the teachers are actually being evaluated. It seems that the teachers have to (gasp!) earn their grades (like we do).

Teachers see these evaluations as unfair because not only do they make teaching essentially the same as any other profession, but they also put pressure on bad teachers. The teacher evaluation system as it currently stands is more stringent and constructive than it was in the past because it actually evaluates teachers and provides them with feedback as to what they can fix.

This is a rewarding development for students because it requires that bad teachers shape up, and if they don't, the stricter system holds them accountable.

So why is this so dreaded by many teachers? Simply put, the attitude in the teaching community is that once a teacher has tenure, they are essentially above reproach. What teachers fail to understand is that the tenure system is unique in the professional realm. In no other career does simply being around for a certain amount of time disqualify an employee from being fired. Granted, there are union contracts that prevent the termination of employees for certain reasons, but these are not the same as the tenure systems for teachers, most of which are based solely on the number of years spent teaching.

The problem lies not in the tenure system itself but in the bureaucracy that oversees it. Tenure would be fine if there were sufficient and stringent enough evaluations and other forms of oversight, but as this year's uproar over the stricter standards and evaluations demonstrates, this has not been the case. The government — in this case the school board and administrators — simply lack the capacity (be it manpower, time or backbone) to oversee an entity as complicated as the American school system. The only way the tenure system protects good teachers is if newly hired teachers are evaluated stringently and more often, thus weeding out the bad teachers before they get tenure. By doing this, the tenure system will actually protect the good teachers and not the bad because the bad will be eliminated before they receive tenure. Otherwise, I can see no reason why teachers should be offered a protection that other members of the workforce do not enjoy.

In no way, shape or form do I mean to offend any teachers through the content of this column. This is meant to be an observant student's perspective on the local education system. But with that said, I really do not understand why these more stringent evaluations are even an issue. This is what the district should have done all along. The good teachers (of which there are many at Lodi High) have absolutely nothing to fear. If anything, they only seek to profit from the elimination or improvement of bad or unproductive teachers from their profession. Furthermore, if the teacher is doing nothing wrong and is still terminated because of an evaluation, he can always file a wrongful termination lawsuit. They have the same legal recourse as every other American.

While I understand the resistance to the more stringent system after years of getting a free pass, I simply want to offer my thanks and reassurance to Lodi High's teachers. You have nothing to fear. You all perform a thankless job, and succeed at motivating many students to (not to sound too cheesy here) pursue their goals and aspirations. I and the rest of the student body appreciate your effort. Simply put, thanks.

Editor's note: The column is reprinted from the Lodi High Flame, where Josh Gums serves as opinion editor.

Reader Feedback

danielh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:29 PM:

" edumacation: It's nice to see someone else understands eduation.

Down in Stockton, problems start at the School Board, and they roll down hill. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 13, 2009 3:31 PM:

" danielh I agree. Its true that employees rise to their level of incompetence. When principals or administrators are incompetent everyone suffers. Surveys show that most new teachers quit within 5 years. Some are not suited for teaching, but 50%? Studies have repeatedly demonstrated that when principals, personnel administrators and other bureaucrats do a lousy job, teachers quit. Well this time they are being fired, so more overpaid clerks can keep their jobs. "

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danielh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:11 AM:

" One bad evaluator can ruin teaching at the whole school.

Remember politics!

If a principal doesn't like someone because of politics, the evaluation score can go down.

Politics is a bad reason to get rid of a teacher. "

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danielh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 12:04 AM:

" Good teachers can be absolutely destroyed by bad evaluations, if perhaps a principal doesn't like something political about a teacher.

Suppose a principal is performing poorly.

Instant remedy! Blame the teachers. "

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danielh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 12:02 AM:

" One bad administrator can ruin a whole school, just through the evaluations. "

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Gator wrote on Feb 12, 2009 2:24 PM:

" Hey I-spy, youre kidding right ??? "

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govagent wrote on Feb 12, 2009 5:50 AM:

" Its about time, we Lodians deserve the best education for our kids and ths will weed out the slackers, and you know who you are! his should go all the way down to elementary education as well! For the amount of what teachers make this makes good sense. I have sen where teachers are poor at commanding respect of studens and are walked all over. Student that want to learn cannot because of the kaos in classroom. Some teachers loose their zeal and become complacent and that is when failure starts. There is one style of teaching which is tradiional, yet not all students are traditional learners, there are many diffeent learning styles and a good teacher needs to see why a student performs badly and make adjustments accordingly. I say the school district is moving in the right direction and if teachers dont like it they can work somewhere else! "

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Gator wrote on Feb 11, 2009 6:59 AM:

" Education, you get out of it what you put in to it, quite simple, eh mate !! "

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Robb wrote on Feb 10, 2009 9:00 PM:

" getting more, longer is USELESS, when it is SUB-Standard, AN LUSD education is as below par as the state college system in California, But hey, if you expect nothing, nothing changes... "

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Gator wrote on Feb 10, 2009 8:19 PM:

" Believe me friend a GOOD Teacher knows!! Dont kid yourself .. "

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RU4REAL wrote on Feb 10, 2009 7:05 PM:

" How does one target blame after failing to achieve success in life? Unlike most other occupations, teachers have the benefit of not knowing if they've been effective until it's too late. Even then, it's not possible to determine at which stage of education the ball was dropped. If an educator is effective, evaluations should not be feared, but embraced as a tool by which to improve. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 10, 2009 5:30 PM:

" Gator-- I agree! Its a waste of money time and precious resources to promote the idea that "everyone" should go to college. The number one training organization for teaching adults real skills is the US Army! If there is a trade, there is a slot for a man or woman in the US Army. Many young people don't know what direction they will take in their future. The Army with its accurate testing, can find what aptitudes and abilities a person has and combine that with interest, you have a career. Uncle Sam pays for it all, free room and board, the best meals anywhere, free transportation, and with an enlistment contract, they will even give you money to go to the school or college of your choice when you are ready. The Marine Corps, Navy and Air Force have similar programs. Other programs are offered by the Coast Guard and the California State National Guard. If students could see that the net result is a positive for military service, more wpould be serious about it. Virtually every job category is within the military services. "

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Gator wrote on Feb 10, 2009 4:30 PM:

" I know an outstanding Teacher who retired not long ago! She was Teacher of the year in an other part of California, a Mentor Teacher and looked up to by many of her peers
She said Teaching was no longer fun and fulfilling as they were putting the Children into
overload and teaching to test in place of teaching to learn!! Lets face it not every one is
cut out to go to collage..20/20 ran a piece on some hard facts if a person is not in the top
25% of their graduating class their chance of dropping out of college is over 95% and if
one fumbles and stumbles through with a 4 year Gen education degree, study after study
prove your in debt up to your Wazoo and with a piece of paper no better that a High school Diploma Technical schools and training and Military schools will serve you far
BetterNo child left behind is a Joke!!! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 10, 2009 2:26 PM:

" Sven31-
re:your comment. When my kids were in elementary school, I started visiting their classes to see how I could help. I observed teachers overburdened with politically correct activities and real learning was on the back burner. I asked questions and learned it was worse than I thought. I saw good students "punished" ie intentionally NOT recognized for doing superb work, while loafers and slackers were rewarded with high grades and un-needed attention. Pavlov could easily predict the results. I spoke with many teachers who enrolled THEIR children in private school. Maybe they know somehing?

I started homeschooling without district permission and received a letter from the state warning me to get a credential. I compromised and got at least four credentials + supplemental auths in about 18 months. It was EASY, and the testing was moronic (MSAT +many Praxis and CSETS). The state left me alone, and wished they never threatened me!! I know too much about their little credential games. The law of unintended consequences was operative. I advocate for a complete modernization of public schools and favor National Board Certification for all teachers. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 10, 2009 12:11 PM:

" teach247365
Yes I take the side of the teacher because I have seen good teachers treated like.. Well, very badly. My evaluator downtown said I sided with the teacher and thought like a teacher to much and that is why I retired. I guess my skill set didn't include lying and stabbing in the back and undercutting hard working professionals who, for the lack of support, would never be able to do a good job.

Yes if you look at scores on any set of tests you will see a drop. But this has been going on for 30+ years. One of the reasons the state education department keeps changing tests is that so you cannot make direct comparisons from this year to 10 years ago.

I realized this a long time ago: More American children are educated longer than any other country in the world. You can compare us to Japan and Germany, or who ever. Our kids get more longer. I think that's pretty damn good and something to be proud of! "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 10, 2009 12:04 PM:

" Edumacation and teach247365:
If you are currently working as teachers then you have some fellow teachers with general secondary credentials, which allow them to litteraly teach anything. The single subject credentials were a way to put an end to that and for good reason.

I think the R2M was for teachers in peculiar situations that were prepared, but did not qualify for a standard credential. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 9:05 PM:

" Gator good points! All parents with school aged children should ask themselves this question: When do you think is the time that your child should be ready for adult responsibility? Will you prepare them slowly over many years, or will you thrust it upon them on the day they turn 18? I don't think its fair to expect babies at 17 11/12 to turn into adults with responsibilities overnight!

Who is responsibility for teaching manners and accountability? Parents or teachers?

Its NOT about the money--although it can be- ITS ABOUT EXCELLENCE! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 9:00 PM:

" To Teach 247365- I agree with you on all points. If we inject honest academic preparation into the credentialing process that would help. Perhaps we could allow new teachers 5 years to get prepared for National Certification. I have conducted classroom observatons of several teachers with National certification and was favorably impressed with teaching skills as well as outcomes. It can't hurt the teaching profession to attempt to clear out ineffective or academically limited teachers and replace them with skilled certified professionals. Even if pink slipped, many districts --other than Lodi- would clamor for National Board certified teachers. We should immediately start exploring the possibilities. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:53 PM:

" Sven31- Its seems that much of your argument is based on the point of view of the prospective teacher. I am ONLY interested in trying to figure a way out of the big problems of public school that exists today. The average freshman SAT scores have been dropping for over 30 years producing a lower standard assessment. Guess what that does to public education as time goes on? The standards go lower and lower.

Your second paragraph proves my point. You can teach a subject you know nothing about about with the existing credentials game. I don't think this is what teachers, parents or students really want. We need to go on a journey to excellence. All of us! "

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Gator wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:39 PM:

" You could have all PhDs Teaching in the class room, but till you get some semblance of
order in the class room your basically spitting in the wind.. That is needed from grade 7 on
up. No eating in class, no cell phones period, no F-bombs or other Fowl language Period
and last but not least absolutely no dis-respecting the Teachers Period!!! Now how about good old Lodi High,its an Oldie but it sure isnt a goodie its an embarrassment, give it
to Lodi Fire to burn for practice and Build a new Large modern school!! Also if the teachers are supposed to take a ten percent cut, why not start at the top, he non-producers
the Admin say 15% across the board "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:29 PM:

" The good thing about National Board Certification is that it allows you to teach in any state. Some districts DO provide financial incentive for National Board Certification, Lodi Unified does not. It would be difficult to require NBC for all incoming teachers, since you must have at least 3 years teaching experience in order to enter the program.

Sven, in order to teach in California, you must now pass tests or graduate from a CCTC approved program, no matter what state you are coming from. You can't even major in Biology at Chico State, and teach without taking the Biology CSET. Chico State does have a "biology for education" program, but if you went the ACTUAL Biology route, you can't teach without taking the test. You also must take more indoctrination...I mean coursework, in education. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 6:51 PM:

" Edumacation:
I can't think of any tangible reason for national certification other than for the teacher that gets one. Currently, you're not paid anymore, you don't get to choose your job assignments. I think it really only matters to the person who has one. The principal and the district will trot you out anytime someone from Sacramento drops in, but what you do each day won't change at all. And the process to get one isn't easy. I put it at the same level of having a CLAD or BCLAD (or what ever it's called now). It's nice to have and hang on the wall, but nothing really changes how you do your job.

As for someone not teaching in their credential area, it can be good, but more often bad. Just before I retired, they came through and did the NCLB certifications. I was rated highly qualified in an discipline I've never even sat in one class for. I never taught that class because I didn't know anything about it.

There might be some who would. I even turned down an assignment to teach that class. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 6:06 PM:

" teach 247365 A teacher can teach outside of their credential, but it has to be a single group and they must be the same grade level." Yes I agree--- Is that a good thing for our kids? "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 6:03 PM:

" Sven31 and/or teach247365 Do either of you have an objection to requiring a higher standard than the CSTP? What do you think of the National Board Certifications? I can't think of any scenario where students will not receive a benefit. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 5:57 PM:

" Edumacation:

CSET was not around when I started. I took the National Teachers Exam in several areas rather than go through taking another year in college.

As far as I know (and it's been several years now) people with a major in "education" do not qualify to get a teaching credential in CA. This came up when my district recruited fresh college graduates from other states.

All of the people we got had to take the CSET or take college courses to satisfy the requirements for a single subject credential.

They were somewhat annoyed that their college degree didn't qualify them for a job here.

As to my last post, you are either misunderstanding the scenario or someone is giving you bad information.
Again from experience, we used to be able to teach in areas outside our credential for a portion of the day.

There was a change in the code (sorry I don't remember, but it was in the early to mid 90's) which put an end to this practice. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 5:48 PM:

" Edumacation:
I see you are looking at a R2M credential.

"This credential authorizes the holder to teach all subjects in a self-contained class and, as a self-contained classroom teacher, to team teach or to regroup students across classrooms, in grades twelve and below, including preschool, and in classes organized primarily for adults."

The key here is that in order to qualify, it must be a self contained classroom. Every high school class subject requires a single subject teaching credential and/or authorizations for a person to teach them (some exceptions like in-school suspension).

It continues: "this credential authorizes the holder to teach core classes consisting of two or more subjects to the same group of students in grades five through eight, and to teach any of the core subjects he or she is teaching to a single group of students in the same grade level as the core for less than fifty percent of his or her work day."

A teacher can teach outside of their credential, but it has to be a single group and they must be the same grade level.

Sorry it took so long, CCTC site down earlier. "

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gray cloud wrote on Feb 9, 2009 4:27 PM:

" Hey !! "edumacation" contact Marty to see if he will give you a column. You cant write, but you cant stop yourself either. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 1:45 PM:

" Gator- I agree with you, but the educrats made up these weird rules to help them and confuse everyone else. It has nothing to do with helping kids get the best teacher. Whatever your age, I recommend picking up a teaching credential so you can help kids that are being failed by the existing system. That was my choice and many others as well. My kids and I are too blame for our failures (none so far) and successes. Teaching this way actually takes less time than the 7 hours per day kids are at school. The law requires much less. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 1:40 PM:

" Sven31 yes supp auths are still allowed but some can go as high as grade 12. It is really much faster and easier to take the appropriate CSET battery. If you really know the subject, why not take the test? On the front of each credential it will note whether it is by EXAM or other pathway. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 1:37 PM:

" Sven31, you are partially correct. The NCLB requires input from each state on how to implement it. Currently, in California HOUSSE allows poorly qualified teachers to teach. Their qualifications are lower than the CSET exam route or the CCTC approved major route. Teach247365 and I both agree that these cctc approved blank-edumcation majors dont represent much in terms of scholastic requirements. These (fill in the blank-edumacation) majors qualify them for almnost no other work outside of public education. Yet, if a person with a real math or science major applies they put them through an ordeal to scare them away and keep the edumacation -dabblers happy.

All teachers should be NATIONAL BOARD CERTIFIED---its the right thing to do. Good teachers want it, and educrats hate it. The LUSD can and should require this certification from all teachers BEFORE they are hired! "

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Gator wrote on Feb 9, 2009 12:42 PM:

" edumacation, Talk less,say more!!! "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 11:57 AM:

" edumacation: apparently you are a credentialed teacher. I haven't checked recently, but the CCTC used to let you attach a supplemental credential in specific areas provided you had enough course work. I think it was 10 upper division or 20 lower division units.

I think you might be confusing NCLB requirements with Ca teaching credential requirments.

When I worked downtown, we had a complaint about independent study courses being offered at a high school.
I looked into it. The teacher had a multiple subject so she could teach a lot of high school classes but she couldn't teach those in specific content areas ABOVE the 9th grade like government or chemistry, etc.

We used to allow teachers to work outside of their credential for part of the day. A new provision (I don't recall the name, again I could look it up) in the early 90's prohibited that practice so a person credentialed in physics,without anything else, could no longer teach math. Only if they had enough math to qualify for a credential in math, Most did but this is what the provision changed. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 11:12 AM:

" Edumacation: The following:
"The single subject credential allows teaching of a single subject, in a self contained classroom organized primarily for (blank). Here is the loophole, If a teacher has a Clear Single Subject credential in anything, they are allowed to teach any other subjects during the day as long as its for less than 50% of the day. ie a Homemaking teacher can legally teach calculus for a few periods per day."

I might be wrong,but if this is the same credential I'm thinking of, but I believe this code only allows a teacher in a self-contained classroom, or a multiple subject classroom up to grade 9.

This came up when a teacher from out of state had an assignment in physical sciences course in a high school. As I looked at it, it seemed that this teacher had to work 1) in a self-contained classroom teaching one subject and 2) only with students up through grade 9.

I can look it up if you want, because the person still has a credential and be more specific. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:42 AM:

" Sven31 here is your Tennis degree program you exprssed doubts about: They have a BA and an MS in Tennis Management--http://www.ferris.edu/bachelor-degree-professional-tennis-management.htm

Here is a collge with your choice of: Leisure Management, Sports Management or Teacher Certification in PE.
http://www.newberry.edu/academics/majors/physicaleducation.asp

I think I'll major in "Leisure Management- These people are serious!? "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:30 AM:

" Sven 31- I had to brush up on the latest cctc rule. I have a plethora of credentials that some ying yang edumacrat with the county LEA required me to have to etach my own (bio) kids. The result for the family was actually good. I can say objectively that earning a California teaching credential is possible the easiest academic thing an adult can do. Oh I didn't forget the pretend exams on the RICA, MICA and CLAD. If a teacher whines about the "difficult" requirements, ask yourself why? I say test them all annually in each subject they teach. LOL ROFL WHy NOT? They are teaching testing and grading your kids! Lets have the highest qualified teachers! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:24 AM:

" The NCLB HOUSSE requirements provide for a "portfolio" of experience and teaching that is peer reviewed by other similar teachers. Hypothetically if you are a good football coach and want to teach chemistry, to qualify using house you need X number of years actually teaching chemistry, part of the day. If you buddy Department chair (could be the Tennis coach) wants to keep you as a football coach, she can sign off on your portfolio. Voila!

So parents, when your child comes home from school confused, you might know a few reasons that can explain it.

Ask DETAILED questions about actual majors of your teachers AND MOST IMPORTANTLY PRINCIPALS! How many are former cheerleaders? Golf coaches?

If you put PRESSURE in the school board you can reverse the trend to lower qualifications. There are many other loopholes but I did not discuss those (rural school etc). "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:17 AM:

" Comprehensive professional post graduation exams are usually not required. Example: Physical Education for teaching.

The Multiple Subjects credential plugged up this loophole a few years ago. That loophole was usually called the "waiver" program. If you took enough courses, you did not have to take a comprehensive test. The courses could be in basketweaving.

Loophole #3- Its called the NCLB HOUSSE requirement. Under HOUSSE, ANY credentialed single subject teacher in California has three ways to show subject matter competency: 1) approved cctc major and college. 2) If you have a single subject credential in anything, you can take the CSET exams in the subject field. ie PE teacher who teaches Biology more than 50% of the day. These exams are not rigorous and only include subject matter from the content standards K-12 (except some AP exams---1st year college).

Now to loophole three: If a teacher has been teaching a single subject for X number of years, and they are not defined as a "new" teacher, they may not have to either have a cctc approved degree or have passed the required CSET exams. HOUSSE "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 8:08 AM:

" The multiple subject credential includes an ever changing maze of requirements. When more than two subjects can be taught in a self contained clasroom, generally speaking a muliple subjects credential is required. This is the credential of most K-6 teachers. However, the credential permits teaching multiple subjects in a self contained class to adult! This implies the multiple subject credential should be more rigorous.

The single subject credential allows teaching of a single subject, in a self contained classroom organized primarily for (blank). Here is the loophole, If a teacher has a Clear Single Subject credential in anything, they are allowed to teach any other subjects during the day as long as its for less than 50% of the day. ie a Homemaking teacher can legally teach calculus for a few periods per day.


Loophole #2- In order to be "fully" qualified as a teacher in California. All "new" teachers as defined in the law, must complete a cctc approved major in (blank) from a cctc approved college. These majors are designed ONLY for teaching. These are streamlined degrees emphasizing teaching not content. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 9, 2009 7:55 AM:

" Sven31- I agree with the first paragraph. I maintain that I and the teacher were honest about a "major in Tennis". In fact, within the "academic field" of physical education, the splitters and lumpers disagree about breadth and scope of education. This department chair had amazing knowledge of Tennis---hopefully he was competent understanding Netwons laws--when he teaches AP Physics-- LOL But he was also the Department chair of a large high school. I can call him today and get more details for you. WHy the big deal. He hates most other sports activities. Tennis is his game. And if you want to learn Tennis, I recommend him. He very agile, and quick for his age. He is educated and intelligent, but not about Physics, Chemistry or Biology. He is a good organizer and meeting manager and thats what he does other than Tennis. LOL--he has even called "me" up to get my opinion on his lesson plans ;>)

OK- here goes the cctc has this thing called a self-contained classroom organized primarily for (blank). There are two main forks: Single subject and multiple subject. "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 9, 2009 7:43 AM:

" edumacation:
Re:Feb 6, 2009 11:38 AM post.

Sorry it took so long to get back.
It's not subject knowledge I'm talking about. I'm speaking of very,very small tasks, items,etc. that add up. Does the teacher use a video projection unit if they have one. If they do, what are they showing on it to reinforce or provide information. Does every student have a book and is it open to the right page. It is the little things like that that apparently now days are being used. This is what happens when the evaluators are not familiar with the subject.

As to your science teacher who you report graduated with a degree in tennis, either you or the teacher are not being honest. Let's assume it's the teacher. Tennis is not a major. Anywhere. Find it if you can.

Second, in CA public school, a teacher must be qualified in the area they teach. 100%, not 50%. They must have a major or examination to qualify them for their credential. You can look that up to. "

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Gator wrote on Feb 9, 2009 7:27 AM:

" You would think the Grades made by the Students would an indicator as to the worthiness
of the schools Teachers, any School !! Now Having a Nephew Graduate from LODI HIGH
last year really gives me a little pause for thought!! The disrespect shown teachers, eating
In class, using fowl langue in class its like the inmates guarding the asylum.. Maybe it
would be a good Idea to recruit new Teachers from the Marine Corp !! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 11:01 PM:

" teach 247365 QUOTE: 1141 "...In order to avoid the test, you must go through a "commission approved" program at certain colleges/universities. Basically, they created "(enter subject matter here) for Education" majors at certain schools, so they could get more money. A real Bachelor's in that field means nothing to them. " "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 10:57 PM:

" Mrs. S- Write about your concerns to the LUSD Board. They mist know about the razzle dazzle of the "credentials' game. Few will talk about it. It might be the seed of the old saw "People who can do, people who can'tn teach. Yes there are highly qualified teachers, but ar they being properly utilized. A friend has a BS in Micro from UC Berkeley and an MS in Chemistry. He was annoyed by the lack of preparation of may students and requested and now teaches Drivers Education and a few shop classes. He uses the school CAD software to redesign his house and has reslized he gets the same pay for teaching Drivers Ed and shop classes as Chemistry or physics. I don't blame him. Parents should blame the principals and the Personnel department for these nefarious plans. Ask questions, stay on task and don't allow "credential" educrat jargon answers.

A ping pong coach (PE-CCTC major) never had to be tested with the CSET and can legally teach PHYSICS or calculus to your kids as long as its less than 50% of the day! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 10:46 PM:

" Mrs.S. The fact of the matter, is the retired science teacher wouldn't dare admit to having a Masters in Education with all that implies about his absence of skills and knowledge. No MS wasn on his employment application. He have a degree in pine trees, which would have qualified him to teach about conifers!

Principals could care less about REAL teacher qualifications. Most look for the minimum academic requirements.

One more point- Many principals also have what I call spurious or "education" based degrees. One of the most common is a degree in physical education---for teachers. They don't need to take any CSET tests---ironic. The easiest major is not required to be tested!!! REALLY!

I have a few recomnmendations for parents that can easily fix this.

1) Demand to know the academic degrees--ie: MAJOR subject, school and year for each teacher, counselor and administrator. Don't accept the "credential" doubletalk--it means NOTHING. Don't let up, don't accept silly "credential answers". If you question the academic ability of a teacher with this knowldge, ask the adminsitrator to be more careful in their selections! "

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Mrs. S. wrote on Feb 8, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Edumacation,

re: your comment Feb. 7 (11:00 PM), I think I know who you're talking about. Both my sons had this particular teacher. My eldest had him in his freshman year, and the experience was disappointing. Fortunately, he had better teachers after that (those whom this particular teacher said he "was different from"). He's now a biomedical engineering major in college.

My middle child had this same person. At Back to School night, this teacher made a big deal about how he had a Master's in Education, but he never mentioned his science background, if any. Telling. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 1:23 PM:

" teach247365 1141- Ah Yes, thats correct. This is more evidence that supports my hypothesis that the CDE and CCTC do more to scuttle highly trained teachers and require the PC faux degrees that are required. Using their logic (cctc) a NOBEL prize winner could NEVER be qualified to teach juior high school alegbra, but the ping pong coach is the best bet to teach AP analytic geometry--as long as her portfolio of experience--meets the cctc rules.

It is disgusting how mediocrity is the goal. Your explanation informs me why a teacher who had a degree in XYZ which was a cctc commission approved degree, knew little about her field! Her degree would not be good enought to comnduct eral work in the field. She had no lab skills or associated knowledge-your explanation about the cctc approved majors sheds light on it. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 1:12 PM:

" teach247365-1133-
You should be very proud of yourself for the results you have produced. I especially agree with your last sentence. "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 8, 2009 11:41 AM:

" You are incorrect about the CSET. In order to avoid the test, you must go through a "commission approved" program at certain colleges/universities. Basically, they created "(enter subject matter here) for Education" majors at certain schools, so they could get more money. A real Bachelor's in that field means nothing to them. "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 8, 2009 11:33 AM:

" I am a high school teacher. I have several former students who are currently in graduate school, and are very successful. I have former students at universities like Berkley, Davis, Stanford, UCLA, Gonzaga, and MIT. I have former students at smaller private colleges. I have former students at junior colleges. The students at all of these schools are successful. I have students who chose not to continue their education in a traditional way, yet are leading successful, productive lives in their chosen profession. A graduate degree is not the ONLY indicator of success. Being a productive member of society indicates success.

I have had many students come back to thank me for pushing them to do their best. At the time, they were certainly annoyed when I would answer questions with other questions, but now they know how to think things through and solve problems for themselves. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 11:12 AM:

" I don't detest REAL teachers. I do want to see the laws changed so that the lowest common denominator of teacher and student requirements is no longer the goal. I never said I was an expert in anything. But when one of my kids was in a middle school class and the teacher lied to me about their education, I wondered why. Now I know.

There are students who "hide" in class by avoiding meaningful participation or learning.

There are also many teachers who hide behind their faux teaching credentials instaad of real degrees.

PE coahes teaching chenistry and they never took a course in it--all legal under state cctc and CDE rules. Not quite what I call quality instruction. "

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NOFXfan wrote on Feb 8, 2009 10:28 AM:

" Edumacation, I don't understand where your detest for teachers comes from. Touting how you were successful in home schooling your children does not make you an expert in teaching. In my experience, most teachers are dedicated, educated, intelligent, and professional people. Spend one week in a high school teaching business, since that seems to be something you grasp, and then you'll understand the challenges teachers face everyday. Anybody can educate motivated students, educating the masses is what is difficult. It is also what separates our great country from the rest of the world. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 9:57 AM:

" teacher247365- Question? I thought the CSET exams were only required for single subject teachers who were teaching out of their field? They should be easy anyway since they are only based on the state content standards---look up the state contract RFQ. The only "difficult" CSETs are the ones for AP classes which are designed for first year students at the highest levels. If you want college course credit, you should know the material!

There are no CSET exams on Differential Equations or Thermodynamics. LOL "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 9:51 AM:

" Have "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 9:50 AM:

" teach247365- What grades do you teach? Any successes? Has any of your kids gone on to do graduate University work in your field? These should be the question administrators ask when assessing teachers. No fair preparing students to go into "edumacation" where they don't even have to have a pulse to learn that indoctrination. These are the factors that tell me the difference between teachers, not whether the teacher is well-liked and gives everyone A's, or actually encourages students to learn on their own and ask their own questions. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 8, 2009 9:44 AM:

" Teach 247365- Good points. What is your opinion about my postulate that once a student is competent with reading, writing, basic arithmetic and understands how to think rationally, most teaching is self teaching? Kids are very curious about most everything. Once they have the interest and basic skills, they can be their own teaching machines. It is no longer required to spend hours at a research library just to locate one publication. Look at your students. How many are "hiding" or going through the motions to make you feel good, or them. You know that not much is going on inside, but they are "trying" at some level of participation. When learning about Newtons laws to teach physics to my kids, I was no enrolled in any class. I would call an engineer or local college professor to explain some concepts. I had zero problems understanding the knowledge required by the state standards that I was required to teach. These content standards are very low at the highest grade level, and too high for the lower grades.

Why is the CBEST, at only the 8th grade level? "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 8, 2009 8:58 AM:

" Edumacation, I know the teachers I work most closely with have degrees in the field in which they teach. I haven't interviewed everyone though.

I do agree that its ridiculous that I still had to take the test to prove I knew my stuff, even though I have a degree in the subject. Education classes are a complete waste of time for most people. However, I do understand that there are some people who KNOW the material, but have no idea how to teach it. Perhaps we need to have team teaching, rather than education classes. Pair up a new teacher with a master teacher, and let them learn from each other. "

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dogbark wrote on Feb 8, 2009 8:56 AM:

" when I was growing up (pre-integration) there was a simple soultion for bad teachers.
They got assigned to the black schools.
Only now, a generation later, are we seeing improvement, finally, in education. Because now we all have to put up with the bad teachers. "

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NOFXfan wrote on Feb 8, 2009 8:56 AM:

" I am pretty sure that the term "tenure" is not used anymore in LUSD. I believe it is now called Permanent Status. There are fundamental differences. Tenure was used to protect University professors' right to teach controversial subject matter. Meaning they could not be punished for their opinions. I respect the author's right to free speech, but he should get his facts straight. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 11:10 PM:

" I also agree that many teachers are highly educated. But are they highly educated in what they teach? We have a plethora of teachers with master degrees in edumacation and Edumacation doctorates---that is an oxymoron-- EdD---like the last TV advertisement---approved ONLINE doctorates. Get YOUR DOCTORATE in your spare time---while working for Taco Bell. Accredited by the CCTC. High standards?? And LUSD teachers get an extra $1,000/year for this edumacation. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 11:00 PM:

" One retired local physics teacher has been bamboozling everyone for years. I ran my own background check on him when he applied to work for me. He told everyone he had a BS degree in physics. Actually, he had a BS in BS. I posed a simple question (I found in his school textbook and confirmed the answer through a mechanical engineer).

He BS'd the answer and gave an "explanation" that would have Isaac Newton turn over in his grave. Today, the edumacrats think he is "Mr. Science". His REAL resume' proved that he was "Mr. pine tree"- his major in college. Transcripts showed no academic coursework in statistics, calculus, engineering, chemistry or physics.

"Stand and Deliver"? The CCTC and CDE would not permit Jaime Escalante to teach math because he "only" had a degree in Math and had taught math and physics for 9 years in Bolivia. But the CDE and CCTC said "NADA" to his credentials. He had to get edumacated by the CCTC. LUSD has how many BA/BS degreed math teachers? science teachers? "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 10:37 PM:

" Teach 247365- I am, glad we agree on a mandatory requirement of the National Board Certifications for ALL TEACHERS!

Now, all we need is National Board Certification for principals and adminsitrators.

Okay since you assessed yourself, assess your department colleagues. How many have degrees in chemistry, physics, engineering or math (not edu-math junk degrees)? I contacted the California State Science Teachers Association and offered to finance a survey of their members. The survey would be self-administered and would gain insight into the ACADEMIC or SCHOLASTIC experience and education of the teachers. They refused even if THEY developed the questions. The realize that a "credential" to teach a single subject may mean absolutely NOTHING!

They referred me to several of their EXPERT and long time science teachers--average over 30 years experience. I interviewed them. Only one of them had any science related degree- Biology.

The others had degrees in physical education, history or industrial arts.

Conduct your own survey, but be cautious when accepting their comments. Ask specific questions concerning bachelors degree, major, awards, university, graduation dates and any memorable professors. "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 7, 2009 5:55 PM:

" I do agree with your 3:04 post, Edumacation. Sorry, I didn't have room for that on my previous post. "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 7, 2009 5:53 PM:

" Edumacation, I'd love to know when this occurred. Have you been to the schools lately to see what degrees are held? I know you certainly haven't come to my school to ask me.

I have a degree in the field I teach in, and you want me to leave teaching? I just want to be able to do my job. Not have to put up with people in jobs that exist just to make me go to more ridiculous meetings. I'm tired of giving my input, only to have it ignored and then later told that "teachers had input in this decision."

Many teachers ARE highly educated. However the taxpayers continue to think that 'those who can't, teach' and ignore us when we say that things NEED TO CHANGE. Taxpayers continue to vote the same people into the school board over and over, and then wonder why our schools are in the state that they are. Who makes the decisions? The superintendent. The school board rolls over and says "whatever you want."
Take your complaints there. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 3:04 PM:

" continued- So in my hypothetical public school district, a minimum requirement would be National Board Teacher Certification for EVERY teacher. You could always add CLAD and BLAD if you want plus additional academic standards, but LUSD will never do that. Can you imagine what students would do if they actually ahd to be responsible for their behavior? No blaiming anyone else for failure. If a student refuses to cooperate in learning or doesn't care, the teacher should not be blamed. Someone has to be the adult in the classroom. When teachers manufacture excuses and labels and give a myriad of reasons for failure, many kids will take the lazy road and still expect straight A's.

Its is all about accountability and responsiblity by Administrators, teachers, parents and students. The edumacators will stand on the sideleines cheering all sides while they collect large salaries. Peek into the ESC and look around. Anyone see any classes in that building? I didn't think so, so whats hiding in there? "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 2:55 PM:

" Commonsense - I agree. This begs the question why any administrator would want to retain unprofessional teachers. I don't beleive there are many unprofessional teachers in the LUSD, but I question the very low academic requirements especially for subjects like math and science. It's not about not paying enough salary to these specialists, but it is about protecting the status quo of mediocrity. Even though the California Commission on Teacher Credentials has abysmally low academic standards for most teachers, that is not a reason to restrict hiring to only the lowest. Its obvious that at one time educator "diversity" was an issue that required the lower standards, however, the standards are so low now, how far down do we need to go? When you place the stricter requirements of National Board Certification, some complaints will come from protectionist teacher unions, but most of the whining will be by the administrators. What will they do if they actually have proven excellent teachers, and they will have no one left to blame, for student failure or mediocrity? "

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commonsense wrote on Feb 7, 2009 9:36 AM:

" With the future of the upcoming layoffs, it would be nice to see those teachers that do not have high standards of professional conduct, that have gone infront of the California Credentialing Board,and are on probationary discipline be the first teachers to be removed from school districts. Our society should not tolerate unethical conduct among our teachers. Save a teacher that is worthy of teaching in the profession, not teachers that have been arrested multiple times. Get rid of the deadwood! If they want to teach, go to a 3rd world country, not the USA. That board is liberalism at it's best! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 7, 2009 9:12 AM:

" to Sven31- Can you explain how homeschooled or non-schooled students can excell academically, yet "high acheiving", public school kids who have been cottled from Kindergarten are not successful? Sometimes I think that public school is its own worst enemy. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 6, 2009 3:38 PM:

" teach247365- What do you think? The fact concerned relationships of the radii of electron cloud orbitals horizontally and vertically in the periodic table. BTW, Why don't you just seek alternate employment and help the dictrict by providiung YOUR NEEDED INPUT about the ignorance of the policy of allowing science/math non-majors teach physics or calculus. The HOUSSE exemption PROVIDES SUBJECT MATTER EXPERIENCE CREDIT based on a bogus "portfolio" of experience. NO TESTS ARE REQUIRED TO BE FULLY QUALIFIED. In addition, any homemaking teacher can legally teach chemistry if it is less than 3 classes/day. What a crock! The next time you want a basketball coach to do surgery on you, let me know? This travesty must stop. Now I am also guilty since I "taught" my kids coursework that I knew little about, BUT WITH A DIFFERENCE. I admit I DO NOT KNOW, I don't puff my chest out as an edumacator, and my statistics on my students is exemplary. 100% successful graduates at the University of California WITH LITTLE HELP FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS. If I can do it, many parents can! Parents owe their children a better education. Ask Questions! "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 6, 2009 3:24 PM:

" continued- So we had several science and chemistry teachers teaching blatantly WRONG information for several years and no one caught on. Not the teachers, not the administrators not the science curriculum educrats. Think of the layers of "science" advice that were used to justify purhcase of the textbooks. In my view the main objective of the text was not science but cultural diversity and beautiful illustrations. This supports my point about teacher ability. It is NOT about teaching ability. It can't be. The textbook errors would have been recognized. Its all about parenting, entertainment and playing politically correct games with the parents. How do we help our children if we "teach" them WRONG data! BTW the facts of the matter in this instant case were discovered in the 1930's. So we are 79 years behind what is known by chemists. No wonder so many students are confused. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 6, 2009 3:16 PM:

" Bob Loblaw- I am glad someone understands the edumacation game. It's not about excellence, or professionalism but about careerism and cronyism. One of my kids was planning to take a HS course in chemistry. I am a proud home schooler and have professional clear credentials in a few areas, but have limited knowledge of chemistry to teach her. But, I am not afraid to ask questions and not afraid to learn. I visited a local high school chemistry teacher who was the science dept chair. I asked for suggestions on textbooks and materials. I purchased the textbooks and read them thoroughly for understanding. I saw some Serious contradictions between "facts" as presented in a college textbook and one in my high school chem textbook. I made an appointment with the HS science chair, and he told me the University textbook was incorrect! I asked about his education and learned he had a degree in Tennis! I contacted a University chemistry professor and he was outraged to see all the SERIOUS errors in the district approved textbook. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS! "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 6, 2009 2:52 PM:

" If you want to attract strong science and math people, you have to make it worth their while. I teach because I love the students, I want to see them succeed, and money wasn't the most important thing to me. However, I'm thinking of leaving the profession because I'm spending 10-12 hours a day at school, coming in on the weekends, and still being told I'm not doing enough. I put a lot of money into my classroom, and now I'm struggling to make ends meet. So it could be back to the lab for me. "

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Bob Loblaw wrote on Feb 6, 2009 1:36 PM:

" edumacation: One problem is the vast majority of teachers have liberal arts degrees. Most folks who major in a science or math go into other fields. Schools will never have enough of these teachers if a degree in that discipline is required, thus the 50% rule. I don't agree with it, but I understand where they are coming from. In elementary school the teachers can usually bluff their way through science if they are strong in other fields, but in secondary and high school, forget it. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 6, 2009 11:38 AM:

" sven31- Just because the teacher has "taught a lesson 5x per year for 20 years", does NOT imply they understand what they are trying to teach. When I was preparing to teach my children high school level single subject classes, I contacted "subject matter specialist" teachers at a few high schools to receive any suggestions. Many of them, in different subject areas especially in math and sciences, informed me that THEY also had problems with the concepts they were teaching and stayed only a few pages ahead of the students!!! Without the textbook TE edition they were sunk! This inspired me to be determined to UNDERSTAND what I was teaching BEFORE I taught my kids each lesson. At least these teachers admitted they had no confidence in their own knowledge of the subjects. My point is that the credentialing method for determining quality of instruction is grossly deficient. Would you rather be taught by a teacher with an academic degree in a subject or a person who only had a credential? A single subject credential teacher (example- ping pong) can teach ANY class as long as its for less than 50% of the day. WHY? "

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sven31 wrote on Feb 6, 2009 8:12 AM:

" As a retired district administrator (not LUSD), the problem might be that teachers are being evaluated based on criteria that may be outside of the pre-evaluation conferences. The teacher selects some, the administrator selects some, the teacher says this is what I'm going to do, and they set a time and date.

The teacher might do very well in the mechanics of the lesson, but the administrator might also be looking at content standards, re-teaching, evaluation, method of instruction,etc.
Even a veteran teacher, who can do a lesson on a wing (because they've done this lesson 5X a year for 20+ years), might not show every aspect of the lesson, while the evaluator is there.
Not all lessons end in a paper quiz. A veteran teacher knows who gets it and who doesn't, just like they know something is wrong with a kid without having to ask the student. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 9:19 PM:

" Bob loblaw- I reread your post and agree with the CTA for only one reason. These are babies evaluating educated adults. Just ebacsue a few of them can form a complete sentence, does not mean they are adults. I also believe that the administrators lack cajones AND objectivity. I have been present when a clerical type functionary at the ESC was ORDERING a principal how to evaluate a teacher! I think they get away with this, because the prinicpals are always on some type of probationary status. I don't know the administrative details, but the effect is that pricipals are told what to do by educrats who are playing power and ego games. Recently, I have heard that there are retirees dictating policy--at least thats what they boast. I agree that administrators must first be objective and professional. They must remove the game players and strive for proper management controls to do their job. Of course they need control, but they must get the sycophants out of the control booth. When that happens, it will be a more trusting, efficient and professional organization. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 9:05 PM:

" Bob Hussein Loblaw- Thank you for the details. I can understand an informal survea of ADULT consumers, but to trust children with a task requiring maturity, honesty, and an ability to form an opinion based on the facts with an inventory that could have important consequences is ludicrous.

Notice, that our criminal justice system won't allow them on juries for this reason! THEY ARE CHILDREN! Thanks again. I think this is outrageous. What kind of adult would allow this survey? Can you imagine recruits in basic training assessing their First Sergeant? He didn't teach me how to do push ups---waah waah! My peanut butter and jelly sandwich was a little too dry! waaah!

One day years ago, when my little one was at a bus stop, I overheard several students bragging about how they were going to get a bus driver fired. Of course this is childish prattle, but I did notice that they were actually plotting and planning to lie about the driver. Some sweet little angels we are parenting? "

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Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Feb 5, 2009 8:54 PM:

" edumacation -- I think you're referring to my comment about student assessment data being used to rate teachers. I was talking about the data districts collect on assessments students take in class to determine whether or not they are learning the state standards (my daughter's school calls them benchmark assessments). District folks look at the data to see which teachers are doing an effective job teaching the standards, but don't use it to evaluate the teachers' job performance. My contention is districts are afraid to do this because the CTA intimidates them. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 8:44 PM:

" Continued: Some of the other customers ,all ladies, were fearful because this big football player was whining like a nut. He looked unstable. Well, mommy resolved the problem and let him keep his little curls. The hairdresser was red-faced and embarrased for him because of this little outburst. And THIS is what secondary teachers have to deal with? I'd never let a wimp like this date my daughter. Talk about helicopter parents. I have read that it can even get worse in college. The economic realities of today, may finally force families to require some responsiblity and maturity for their childeren. Can you imagine what kind of adult he will be in only a few months? Its time for a change! We should be weaning our kids as when they are very young and not wait until they are 200 pound adults. Lets get some ROTC in the schools. Today, there are men and women his age fighting with real weapons. I don't get it! How can we get these big babies off the bottle? Come one mothers, help our babies grow up. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 8:34 PM:

" Giovanina_ Hi, I haven't seen you post until recently. What you say is certifiably 100% true. Anecdote: I was having my hair cut at a local hair cutting establishment when I noticed a 17 year old high school football player in his uniform---CRYING and whining like a baby. The last time I posted this it was censored. What is wrong with telling the truth? SO I won't mention the high school, but the student should know who it is. Anyway, if you have ever seen a two year old with a mean and nasty temper tantrum--you know, the "I won't" stage of the Terrible Two's. But this baby was at least 185 pounds 6 feet and about 17 years of age. Was there a life threatening injury? NO! WHat could it have been? Did a close friend die? NO, the tantrum played out for all customers to endure. It seems that mommy brought baby to the salon to have his hair cut for school photos. He was having a fit because some un-noticeable wisp of hair lost its little curl. "

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Giovanina wrote on Feb 5, 2009 6:22 PM:

" Look at today's kids, a mass of entitlement. I like what you said, edumacation. These kids are supposed to learn basic manners before they get to elementary school. This way, they can listen to the teacher and learn reading, writing, math, oh and Duties and Responsbilities of a student, in elementary school. This way, they can become the self learner by secondary school. Too may are now getting to secondary school acting like they are entitled to have good grades without performing any of the above. For the last 10 years, the reading, writing, math, and responsibility levels have gone down. Soon secondary teachers will have to have diapers and baby bottles in their classes. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 3:53 PM:

" Bob Loblaw 1336- Your comment re keeping incompetent teachers out of the classroom reminds me of a retired administrator who had the reputation of being the worst teacher. She thought that students in her presence, were behaving properly because of her not because of her authority. What else can they do? Lying to mommy and daddy won't work, lying to the teacher won't work, I guess I'l be forced to behave, until she leaves.... "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 3:40 PM:

" Bob Loblaw- Do you mean students are rating the teachers? LOL I guess if I did that with my kids, I would have failed. Can you please explain how my kids (bio kids) are doing so well at the graduate university level and they never attended middle or high school? They taught themselves, no baby coulda should woulda excuses are ever accepted.

If what you are saying is correct about students rating teachers, it supports my speculation that much of public school teaching is a popularity contest with an entertainment objective. Ms. teacher you better watch out, if Doris gets bored she might change the channel, and thats YOUR fault! How can these kids ever learn to grow up if you coddle them like babies until they are in their late 20's? "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 3:20 PM:

" Bob Loblaw- What is your opinion about my generalization that in most cases after a child learns the skills of reading, writing and rational thought, the student is the teacher. The idea that a teacher somehow must force feed or use tricks to communicate knowledge into an unwilling or unprepared student seems to be common. Unfortunately many parents see the schools as a magic box, something like a refrigerator. You put stuff in and after a while it gets colder. The child returns smarter and well behaved. The fact that a child is present in a classroom should never imply anything other than the fact they were physically present. When I taught my kids specialty subjects such as chemistry, I learned along with them. But guess what? One of them was able to pass her Advanced Placement exam to get course credit by my "teaching". We must give children more credit for their participation in their own learning. The current osmotic method of education is a very expensive failure. "

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Bob Loblaw wrote on Feb 5, 2009 1:36 PM:

" edumacation: I think I would rather have the poor teachers hiding in the ESC than teaching kids in a classroom. Getting rid of them all together would be the best option, but again, that takes some cajones from people who are afraid of their own shadows.

These days, teachers a rated based on the assessment data from their students. Now if this data could be used to evaluate those teachers and help decide if they should be retained or not, then we'd be getting somewhere. Alas, it is back to the lack of cajones... "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 11:40 AM:

" Bob Loblaw- You also make a good point, but that begs two questions: 1) It supports my observation that poor teachers get promoted to the ESC to hide and 2) How can one objectively decide what a good teacher is? A few years ago, California was provide cash incentives for teachers to earn the rigorous and acknowledged valuable National Board Certification in the file of instruction. Quickly, the local educrats at the ESC became jealous, (I don't know any LUSD ESC educrat who has this certification). As a result they started hounding teachers with the certification. I know "peer review" people who were upset that someone else knew more! To the educrats, its not about the kids, its about their puny sel-esteem. Some school districts require National Board Certification for ALL teachers. I support this, but the educrats want don't like it because they lose control over "professional growth" and the myriad useless seminars and trainings that they provide. I think there still remains a requirement, that a teacher must take a "course in email", before they are allowed to have an account. Only in Lodi. "

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Bob Loblaw wrote on Feb 5, 2009 10:45 AM:

" Much of the blame for the deadwood teachers goes to CTA and their local union affiliates. Bad teachers are protected by their union. It takes years and years of consistent documentation to fire a tenured teacher. This rarely happens because the documenting burden falls to principals who come and go. With the unprecedented fiscal crisis currently gripping schools, this is a great time for districts to declare a state of emergency, tear up their collective bargaining agreements, and start over. Too bad district leaders don't have the cajones to actually do it. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 9:45 AM:

" alf-- Good statement. In the Lodi Unified School District the "dead wood" gets promoted to the ESC. Why do you think there are so many bureacrats sitting around the Areida center trying to look busy and justify their positions. I predict that if the financial crisis ever gets remediated, many good teachers will have been terminated and the high paid "administrators" will remain. It's sad but true. The Peter Principle" in action: Every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence. "

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edumacation wrote on Feb 5, 2009 8:14 AM:

" Neo 8:51 Good point! The crony system of teacher administration uses the pretext of teacher evaluation to exert power over those teachers who they don't like, for whatever reason. I agree, grading teachers is like a beauty contest. Two significant responsibilities that teachers have are not in the California teaching standards, but are used to evaluate teachers. These are parenting and entertaining. Public school teachers are required to be the parent during school as well as the entertainer of fidgety kids. As a multi-credentialed home schooler, I went through the teacher indoctrination programs and learned that in most cases, above grade 4-5 that most learning is "self learning"! I am sayng that my kids who went to the University of California did it on their own horsepower and I can't take credit for them. I am not qualified to teach chemistry, but when I taught my own kids we learned together. Once a child learns the skills of reading, writing, and rational thought, thats all that is requited for them to learn unless they have some organic medical problems. People have been teaching themselves for thousands of years. "

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teach247365 wrote on Feb 5, 2009 6:25 AM:

" The problem with this piece is that there are no actual interviews with teachers to back up any of Josh's opinions. I know several teachers at LHS, and the uproar isn't over the fact that they are being evaluated, it is HOW the evaluations are taking place as well as the fact that confidential information regarding evaluations was made public. Teachers WELCOME evaluations with constructive criticism. That is NOT what is going on at LHS, from what I have heard. "

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alf wrote on Feb 4, 2009 11:14 PM:

" tenure needs to go. why in the world is it that teachers are the only job that in 2 years time, you get tenure, can never be fired, all the perks. if something goes wrong, oh, well. just move them to another department or school. this is why many students are not learning squat. get rid of the dead wood and grades will go up. way up. i guarantee it. can i see some backbone from school boards? "

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Cogito wrote on Feb 4, 2009 10:41 PM:

" It would be nice if every profession could run their business in the manor of Jack Welch, former CEO of GE. Every year, he would fire the bottom performing 10% of his managers. He would give the top 20% bonuses. GE thrived during his tenure. The problem with evaluating teachers is that student performance is also based on student ability. Smart kids can make a bad teacher look good and vice-versa. You also can't eliminate the human frailties of the evaluators. But, over an extended number of years, patterns will develop. What needs to be eliminated is tenure. No one should be immune from firing. But someone needs to set up a plan to keep school districts from getting rid of the high paid teachers to balance a budget. There are no easy answers, and there are bad teachers. We all had them. But, thankfully, there are more good ones. Great article Mr. Gums, your teachers (and your parents) are obviously doing a great job. This was as good a journalistic piece as anyone twice your age writes. "

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Neo wrote on Feb 4, 2009 8:51 PM:

" "grading" teachers is like judging a beauty contest. Who can really say which teacher fails to "reach" certain students? Different teachers tend to interact differently with different students, it`s not discrimination or bias, just how the world works. I was somewhat of a basket case in high school and appreciated knowing that not everybody had to be "perfect" to be a good, decent, contributing member of society. "

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Whoa Nellie! wrote on Feb 4, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Lodian 9:53-- you are SO RIGHT! My son had a teacher at LHS who had such a reputation (bad) that we tried everything to get him out of that class. About half the class failed, and worse, at that time she did not use Pinnacle because "the averages dont work right for our weighted scale" or some BS. He retook the class with a well respected teacher and earned 86%. So dont let anyone tell you teachers dont make a difference in presenting the same exact material. "

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jaysam1 wrote on Feb 4, 2009 3:33 PM:

" Lodian - LOL!!!!! "

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Lodian wrote on Feb 4, 2009 1:27 PM:

" Jaysam1: School transfers work. "

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funyon wrote on Feb 4, 2009 12:39 PM:

" This is hogwash. The LNS is a joke for printing this without fact checking and rebuttal. The premise--that CA teachers have "tenure" is false. They have due process which is much different than "tenure"! They're no different than cops or firefighters in how they gain/keep their jobs. So why pick on teachers AGAIN? Last time we were hijacking a tanker off Africa in a recent cartoon you ran about CTA. Can you say bias LNS? Try teaching in CA--you'll be amazed at how challenging the job really is. Maybe you can run a negative editorial about all dentists now that one was accused of groping local patients. Only in Lodee. "

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Jaysam1 wrote on Feb 4, 2009 12:21 PM:

" WCPatty and Lodian: I can think of one particular teacher here in town that has a considerable amount of complaints against them and every parent that wants to remove their child out of the class is not only told "no", but that there are no disciplinary measures they can take because this person is tenured. There have been parents that have taken it to the Superintendent in order to have their child placed into another classroom, and that seems to be ineffective as well. "

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Lodian wrote on Feb 4, 2009 9:53 AM:

" WCPatty: Not only that, Patty, I wish the district would take into consideration the opinions of the students and parents. If a teacher gets terrible evaluations every single year (for many years!), as well multiple complaints every year, then a teacher should finally be considered for dismissal. There are absolutely terrific teachers in the LUSD, but there are some very bad teachers that should be fired so the students do not have to suffer at their hand. There are some teachers in this district that have infamous reputations and most parents try hard to make sure their kids do not have these bad teachers. We all know who they (the bad teachers) are yet they continue to teach every year. This is disgraceful. "

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WCPatty wrote on Feb 4, 2009 8:50 AM:

" Jaysam: Yes, very district has teachers that should get the boot. Not only do I think evaluations should be conducted more often and with stricter standards, they should be done without prior notification so that the evaluator gets to see the "real deal". "

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Jaysam1 wrote on Feb 4, 2009 8:19 AM:

" I can think of a several teachers that are tenured with LUSD that seriously need to go. Just because you are tenured does not mean that you do not have room to improve, nor should you not be held accountable either. Acampo-mom has a point though - I have seen what happens when accreditation time rolls around. They pull out all the stops to get it, once they do, everything goes back to status quo. "

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wtf wrote on Feb 4, 2009 8:03 AM:

" Excellent article, Josh! Keep up the good work and, if you plan on becoming a journalist as a career, don't sell your soul and become a corporate mouthpiece. Keep doing the type of work you've demonstrated here because there are many who want the facts of a situation so they can form their own opinion...which is what a journalist's job was originally intended to be.

GREAT JOB! "

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WCPatty wrote on Feb 4, 2009 7:35 AM:

" I seemed to have missed any information provided supporting that the teachers think evaluations are unfair. How did Josh reach this conclusion? How many interviews did he conduct with teachers? I am curious because I come from a family of teachers and administrators, also have many friends who are teachers and ALL of them welcome evaluations with open arms and in fact wish they were conducted more regularly in order to weed out unqualified teachers. "

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Acampo_Mom wrote on Feb 4, 2009 6:36 AM:

" I agree with Josh that there are many great teachers, but every once in while my kids come across one that for whatever reasons refuses to teach the curriculum. Instead the kids are left to their own devices to "figure it out", or I end up trying to help them learn it (after having to learn it myself). I can't see how the "evaluations" are all that productive...wouldn't a teacher just fake it while they are being watched??? "

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