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The assault on Christmas continues, aided by some misguided PC types
Saturday, December 13, 2008 6:08 AM PST
Political correctness has ruined America.
At no time is the change more evident than at Christmas, more commonly referred to these days as the "Holiday Season" or the "Winter Festival."
Every year the offenses against Christmas grow more outrageous. A news item in the Charlotte Observer detailed that the University of North Carolina decided against putting up — decorated and lit Christmas trees in front of the school's library as has been its long-standing practice.
When she found out that Chapel Hill was the only in-state university to still have Christmas trees prominently displayed, Sarah Michalak, associate provost and university librarian, ordered them kept in storage.
Defending her decision, Michalak said that anonymous complaints from library employees and patrons lead her to review the Christmas tree policy.
And Michalak added that libraries are places that offer information and belief systems from all corners of the world without judgment. According to her, displaying one particular religion's symbols is antithetical to that philosophy.
Reading between the lines, a handful of people who do not have the courage to be quoted by name in the newspaper and an assortment of students from diverse, non-Christian cultures ended the decades-old practice of displaying Christmas trees at Christmas.
That, in a nutshell, is the definition of political correctness: If one out of 100 objects, he prevails.
My reaction — and this is from the perspective of a non-practicing Christian — is that anyone who feels so strongly that Christmas displays are inappropriate should be willing to be cited by name, rank and serial number.
For those students who happily accept our generosity by allowing them to study at American universities, then turn around to criticize our customs, perhaps they would be more at ease if they stayed home.
The "War Against Christmas" has been heating up for more than a decade.
Those who started and continue to wage it claim that its goal is to be culturally sensitive and more inclusive of the many holidays celebrated during December and January. By eliminating references to "Christmas," it eliminates any possible unintentional offense to non-Christians.
Opponents — the pro-Christmas combatants of which I am one — feel that an avoidance of the word "Christmas" is an effort to avoid a direct reference to Jesus or Christianity rather than an effort to appease non-Christians.
As evidence, we point out that nearly 97 percent of Americans, including 20 percent of non-Christians, celebrate Christmas.
Encouragingly, pockets of common sense still exist. In Rockefeller Center New York, residents and millions of visitors can see the lit up 90-foot Norway spruce on display from Dec. 3 through Jan. 9.
Directly across the street, people lucky enough to have tickets can watch the Radio City Christmas Spectacular throughout December.
This year, the Rockettes performed a special "Christmas in August" show to preview the season.
I'm also happy to report that my former home in Lodi (still close to my heart) and current Pittsburgh, Pa. home are resisting Christmas assaults.
News-Sentinel reporter Ross Farrow told the wonderful story about 14-year-old Ryan Neal and his 40-foot Christmas tree light display in front of his home.
Neal has been constructing his Christmas exhibits for three years. This year, with the help of family and friends, it is the largest ever.
Here in snowy Pittsburgh, one of the outstanding Christmas events is Overly's Country Christmas that began when Harry Overly decorated his rural Armbrust home with just a few strands of lights and is now one of the town's can't miss traditions.
Overly's show features over 2.4 million twinkling lights on 15 acres of Westmoreland County Fairgrounds.
As locals like to say, it the light strands were put end-to-end, they would stretch to Mars.
They mean Mars, Pennsylvania, just a few miles from Pittsburgh.
Here's a simple test you can try out to measure how little true objection there is to using the word "Christmas." Regardless of his religious affiliation, wish everyone you see a Merry Christmas.
And invariably, they will respond with "Merry Christmas" — and a smile.
Joe Guzzardi encourages his reader to resist politically correct efforts to diminish the Christmas season. Send him mail at guzzjoe@yahoo.com.
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Lodian wrote on Dec 31, 1969 4:00 PM:
mike wrote on Dec 28, 2008 4:59 AM:
Dan(aka billi) wrote;" I suppose none of us should waste our time waiting for Gator Boy to chastise Mike for calling names or insulting people.
Why do you suppose that is?
Well, we actually *KNOW* why, but still - it's fun to point out the obvious. "
Dan; That seems awfully hypocritical of you, even if I totally missed your point here,but, MY LEVEL OF NAME CALLING AND INSULTING ARE FAR FROM BEING ON PAR WITH YOURS.
Just to point out the *OBVIOUS* . "
real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2008 3:29 PM:
listen, are you going to make the first move toward bobby or not?
now that you celebrate CHRISTmas, you and bobby are closer than ever ideaoloGEE-wise, and now would be as good as time as any.
bobby won't solidify his OWN "committed relationship" here on the LNS blogs after bloviHATING for blogs on end about God "accepting" homosexuality, so my guess is there is a chink in bobby's relationship armour afterall, which would provide an open door for you.
who knows, maybe you can be his next C-BFF?
am i being "mean" and "unloving"?......NO
what i AM doing is demonstrating you cannot turn sin into a hallmark card no matter how you play it, and using you two as an example of why that's impossible
you two provided the opportunity. don't blame me... "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 27, 2008 2:34 PM:
real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2008 1:01 PM:
Would you like a tissue? ").
nope, just the satisfaction of knowing that on thursday you were thinking once again that "Jesus Christ never even lived" (according to you).....is good enough for me
look at your last post billy. bobby posted just minutes after you did. what do you think the odds are that bobby will leave his "committed relationship" with his C-BFF and give you a call?
it could happen you know. even though bobby (who "claims" he is a "Christian") is SUPPOSED to gravitate solely to someone who ONLY shares his "biblical values", that guy will have a (cough cough) "relationship" with someone OUTSIDE his defined parameters, so you actually have a shot billy.
blog love. how nice and cuddly
one is a died in the wool God-hater, and the other is a wolf in sheeps clothing by biblical definition (thus the "wool" connection), so it's not out of the realm of possiBILLYity.
and no, i don't have to be "nice" to evil....."it" gets what it deserves "
real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2008 12:48 PM:
" a tissue wont help him, a white suite with wrap-around-locking arms and a light blue padded room, is what he needs. ").
would you look at that......poor bobby can't handle the fact that someone doesn't get sucked into the emotion of bobby's nice guy act, and actually pushes that aside so as to expose bobby's trumped up agenda of attemting to use God for justification purposes.
poor bobby, he's just a little miffed, as bobby is used to going unchallenged in his quest to FORCE homosexuality into being biblically acceptable.
don't wait for an apology from me bobby, as i don't treat people that lie about Gods word for self justification purposes in that God-less "PC" fashion.
do it again, expect some more from me.
the truth is at stake bobby, and unlike you, i am not the least bit troubled by not garnering the most well liked award in here.
now, while you are here, tell us again why you CAN'T even justify your OWN life sexually/biblically........while telling the blogs about "God honoring homosexuality".......laughing "
real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2008 12:38 PM:
" Actually Fruitcake, it is I that called myself a Wonderful person, (because I am).
In MY name be done.. ").
truly robb, you are about as weird as i have witnessed in the 3 plus years on these blogs.
your all over the place. first you trot out the "nice guy" persona, then you turn around and lie and say you "never call me names", and you "don't mock God", etc.
whatever. you need to sit down some day and decide who you are going to be, because right now you fade in and out of different "personalities" it's dizzying.
as far as i am concerned, i don't take it personally, as your inner turmoil that you struggle with while trying to convince yourself that your in a good place, has NOTHING to do with me.
your just a case study of what happens to a man when he chooses to fight against God.
good luck with that
i still find it unnerving that you have 6 kids for which to pass down your "different personalities"
"they" become the real victim(s) "
Robb wrote on Dec 26, 2008 4:53 PM:
In MY name be done.. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2008 3:28 PM:
Yes, it's curious. :-) "
bobbyg wrote on Dec 26, 2008 12:49 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 26, 2008 12:31 PM:
Would you like a tissue? "
real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2008 4:05 PM:
it's too bad that something physioILLOGICAL doesn't happen to you when you purposefully lie to give you "some" icentive not to. i have come to expect nothingless from your life. God knows (literally) that your life isn't exactly integrity laden.
be that as it may, maybe you can jog your long term "memory loss" about how many pages you devoted to hating on God on the discussion boards alone, including your yearly assaults on Christmas. your hatred for all things God eminated from there.
go ahead, tell the blogs (lie) you "never did"
your a running joke of a human being, thats obvious, but what's poinant in here is that all those people that know you have assaulted Christmas over the last 3 years, they will say nothing that you lied about "not doing it", and will in fact still call you a "wonderful person"
their accesories to your crimes in here
it's an ongoing pathetic display "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 24, 2008 2:11 PM:
Do you think you could refresh our collective memories? Otherwise you just seem to be making those wild personal attacks again.
Do you have a Christmas tree, Reverend?
Do you exchange gifts?
Do you look with fondness upon Christmas lights and other decorations? "
real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2008 12:26 PM:
in the meantime, i do thinks it's funny that you have anything to do with Christmas after trashing it for 3 years straight.
did you purposefully spell the word "guilt" right instead of guilded? LOL
tomorrow will be another opportunity for you to make another excuse about your previous statements that Jesus Christ never really lived.
tomorrow is another day that proved he DID "
LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 24, 2008 9:36 AM:
LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 24, 2008 9:35 AM:
Curious. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 24, 2008 9:04 AM:
I (and the rest of the boys at the Lavender Noodle) dipped into the tip jar and we pulled out all the stops! We bought you a new leather-bound, guilt-edged bible; we could think of no better nor more symbolic gift.
We have it in the cloak room at La Nood, and all you have to do is tell either Erik or Agador (whoever is working then) that you've come for "the treasure". They'll understand and they'll give it to you without question.
I know I don't say it enough, but thanks for all the laughs and witty banter; over the years it has lifted so many of the boys' spirits.
From all of us at the Noodle,
Merry Christmas to Lodi and a Happy 2009.
Billy "
real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2008 2:47 PM:
because integrity wise, that would be a little difficult explaining to them how you can justify spending 364 days out of the year bashing something that (according to you) "doesn't exist", and turning right around and using a day of reminder ABOUT Jesus Christ as a day to buy gifts for your 6 kids.
then again, thats but another example of the irony of your life.....that you CANNOT escape who Jesus Christ really is... "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2008 10:07 AM:
Is there something you wanted to say or were you simply lonely for someone to talk to? "
Robb wrote on Dec 23, 2008 9:23 AM:
you sound like charlie brown's freaking teacher... "
real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2008 7:46 PM:
"..... commemorating the birth of an allegedly divine infant")......
substitute the word "alledgedly" for the term "proven", and you would then be able to celebrate "Christmas" 365 days of the year
it's a good thing i won't allow ONE day of the year to rule my appreciation, so that i can exceed my priorities in life by chasing something with the wrong motive FOR ONLY ONE DAY
for the true follower/believer......365 days a year.
for the 'pretender", 1 day a year (maybe).....with alternating "i need you God" when emergencies arrive...
and for the UNbelievers, there aren't enough days on the calender of their life (if you catch my drift) "
sam wrote on Dec 22, 2008 6:27 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 31, 1969 4:00 PM: "
sam wrote on Dec 22, 2008 6:17 PM:
Merry Christmas, y'all. "
Gator wrote on Dec 22, 2008 5:58 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 22, 2008 5:55 PM:
"Is it just me or is there something vaguely appalling about commemorating the birth of an allegedly divine infant (whose exceptional life would inspire countless acts of compassion and benevolence) by drowning our offspring in disposable, media-hyped novelties assembled by disposable children forced to toil in slave-labor sweatshops; moreover, paying for the grisly merchandise with currency that embodies a perfectly amoral system of socio-economic exploitation, based on the wickedly devious lies of enlightened self-interest. Yet, somehow, the garish spectacle appears rational and even altruistic because we idiotically believe the psychotic ramblings of economists who are, ostensibly, the real deities of this shameless pretense for civilization. Oh well, . . . . .. . .. .. it's probably just me."
Anybody else get one of those cards? !!!!!! "
sam wrote on Dec 22, 2008 5:02 PM:
I feel the need to share...
To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2009, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
To My Republican Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! "
WY wrote on Dec 22, 2008 10:58 AM:
Does anyone want to say hi to the guys I support in Iraq? I can get them to look at the lodinews.com site and go to the "home front" They might like to see a few notes from us.
I just got word that some of my family is stuck is a storm and won't be here for Christmas. :( Now I know what it feels like to not be with your loved ones. Please go to the "home front" and leave a Christmas hello for my guys in Kirkush. There are 12 of them out in the boon-docks of Iraq. Go wish them a Merry Christmas for me. They will see it if you do it. Thanks **== and Merry Christmas to all my blog'n buddies "
WCPatty wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:42 AM:
Due to some sad times for us, we didn't decorate this year, but we made sure we had the Nativity up, since that is what is most meaningful for us.
Sorry for the rambling. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Seasons Greetings to all of you. "
WCPatty wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:38 AM:
WCPatty wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:34 AM:
Personally, I welcome anyone's sentiment, whether it is Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings, because I appreciate the intent, and don't get hung up over the exact words. cont... "
WCPatty wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:29 AM:
WCPatty wrote on Dec 22, 2008 8:24 AM:
Christmas is safe, people. I sincerely believe that situations such as what Joe mentioned are the rare exception, rather than the rule.
Before Thanksgiving, as I did my shopping, there were decorations up as well as Christmas music playing - and I mean real Christmas songs, like "O Holy Night", "Little Drummer Boy" not just secular "Winter Wonderland" cont... "
voter wrote on Dec 22, 2008 7:24 AM:
Giovanina wrote on Dec 21, 2008 10:44 PM:
" Gator wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:50 PM:
Minnesota is a prime example
People want jobs in grocery stores but wont handle pork or liquor.
They had this problem in North Carolina where my mother's family is from. The county they live in was dry until about 10 years ago. When the stores started selling beer the evangelicals raised an unholy ruckus. Some of them even files suit.
Now it is full of illegal aliens who drive around drunk and kill people. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 21, 2008 9:39 PM:
Anyway, since the posts are in chronological order shouldn't that post be at the bottom? I blame it on Y2K. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2008 9:01 PM:
real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2008 5:16 PM:
yeah, like that will ever happen
who knows, maybe lodian, voter and bob loblaw will invite billy over for Christmas like they said they would for thanksgiving dinner.
you know, it's a shame we can't "resurrect" the old discussion boards that demonstrates billy's 3 year ongoing tirade about Christmas. now that would make for good reading (in comparison to the new revelation that billy actually DOES believe there was/is a real Jesus Christ who claimed to be God, and THAT'S why we all celebrate THAT DAY......because afterall, billy DOES receive presents and decorates his house.
how cuddly
after listening to you talk trash about Christmas the last 3 years billy.....you-deserve-this-"reminder"-of-who-you-REALLY-are "
begsbelief wrote on Dec 21, 2008 3:06 PM:
An even happier and prosperous new year with good health and happiness to everyone.
Begs Belief. (A) "
begsbelief wrote on Dec 21, 2008 2:58 PM:
" I suppose none of us should waste our time waiting for Gator Boy to chastise Mike for calling names or insulting people.
Why do you suppose that is?
Well, we actually *KNOW* why, but still - it's fun to point out the obvious. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How is Love is...? Seems friends on here know you from elsewhere. Tell us why you think name calling is okay?
<<My reaction and this is from the perspective of a non-practicing Christian is that anyone who feels so strongly that Christmas displays are inappropriate should be willing to be cited by name, rank and serial number.>>>
Are you willing to be cited by name, address and who you really are? LOL!
Shocked to read what I was sent but it appears Real facts is right.
Your a fake. "
real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2008 12:43 PM:
" Sigh, I see the resident social disease has arrived. ").
i know, but why have you waited all this time to call billy rubin exactly what he is?
you know, you could have said something way back when billy told me "to go have sex with my own daughter", but you said nothing.
neither did lodian.
obviously THAT statement is as disgusting as humanity gets, so despite the fact neither of you have said ANYTHING to him despite him giving you ample opportunities after repeating it several times, here is but another chance for you two to "discuss" his impropriety with him
go ahead...here's ANOTHER chance for you two to demonstrate what "integrity giants" you both are...
leonard will once again lie and tell the board "he cannot read my posts" because he "supposedly" has me on ignore (laughing), while lodian will parrot anything that walks, and hides behind the skirt of others.
those two cancel out each other, but what i want for Christmas (in here) is for billy to tell us again that Jesus Christ never even lived
baWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA "
Gator wrote on Dec 21, 2008 12:25 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2008 11:59 AM:
It's obvious indeed. :-) "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2008 11:35 AM:
Why do you suppose that is?
Well, we actually *KNOW* why, but still - it's fun to point out the obvious. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2008 11:50 PM:
mike wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:57 PM:
rhodi; I like the sports analogies and I hope Santa treats you and yours well.
R facts; Your efforts are appreciated.
InCognito;I Wish you a prosperous new year and you've inspired me to give more to Goodwill industries.
Eschewated reader; hopefully you get that Dale Carnigie book this year.
Voted; your oxymoronic views continue to confuse me, THANKS
Leotard; even if your views offend my sensibilities, I enjoy the read
G74 way; you do either dazzle 'em with brilliance or baffle 'em with %#*& ^&*+
Lardian; Hopefully you get the 19" saddle you need this year (and careful your hacking is making you really read like a hack on this blog)
WTH; that creature from Jekyll Island really has high jacked CHRISTmas huh?
Happy HOLIdays to all! "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 7:18 PM:
So you are an advocate of armed citizens taking matters into their own hands?
I'm just generally in favor of an armed citizenry.
An armed citizenry prevents a whole host of societal problems before they even happen. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:59 PM:
So you are an advocate of armed citizens taking matters into their own hands? "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:44 PM:
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:42 PM:
Oh, and to answer your gun, I don't think a gun can solve problems in our society.
That seems like an overly broad statement.
To my mind, it really depends on the nature of the individual problem. "
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:19 PM:
Say good night Ozzie!! "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 20, 2008 6:11 PM:
Or do you, too, find yourself conveniently at a loss for words when looking down the barrel of a Christmas gun?
Hypocrites."
While the term "lock and Load" comes from meaning a gun ready to fire. In our society it also means to be ready to fight, it is especially prevelant in sporting venues. I've heard many times in sideline clips where the football players are shouting at each other to get locked and loaded. They don't mean to go out and shoot the other team, but rather get in and fight for their team.
Oh, and to answer your gun, I don't think a gun can solve problems in our society. And it is quite a leap of logic from you to take me from being offended when people who hate everything Jesus died for say Merry Christmas to shooting all non-believers over Christmas.
If you want to rant about what I say at least keep it in the same ballpark. Sorry another sports analogy. "
real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2008 5:38 PM:
laughing more than i EVER have in these blogs
tell us again how you decorated your house nice and purty while calling Jesus Christ nothing more than a myth for 3 years running
yeah billy, "we" should take our integrity que's in life from your merry-go-around
please, by all means make up some other "truthful" things about "us" so all the others that swim in the same river as you can high five themselves also. tis the season ya know?
they LOVE IT when you twist our words and lie about us.
shoot, they should celebrate YOUR LIFE.......at least it would be a more honest "committment" to who they really are "
real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2008 5:28 PM:
Good idea Reverend?)".
why are you asking me about things in life YOUR into?
remember it wasn't but a few blogs ago YOU were the one saying in here that "Christians ought to cruise the streets of lodi and galt looking to shoot queers", so YOU will have to compare notes with gator on the "advantages" of owning a gun while you are disagreeing with somebody.
you sure suffer from short term memory loss billy.
can YOU count the amount of times i "reminded" you about Christmas when you asked me for "proof" of the life of Jesus Christ after YOU said he never even lived?
this blog cracks me up, and should be dedicated to the world of billy rubin......"i HATE Christ/Christians" (but i LOVE Christmas)
probably the funniest blog i have ever witnessed "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 20, 2008 3:25 PM:
"You like to name call and make nasty
cracks about people you disagree with. I think your just a tiny little troll"
LOL. Yeah. How could I EVER argue logic like that?
Lock and load Gator. All them ferriners is a comin ta git ya. Next damn thing they'll be bringin their ferrin food an 'spectin you ta eat it.
Draw yer bead Gator boy. One shot tween the eyes 'll do, ya think? Maybe two. One in the neck. Right Gator?
LOCK AND LOAD!! "
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 3:11 PM:
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 3:08 PM:
to dignify to the drivel you spew!! You like to name call and make nasty
cracks about people you disagree with. I think your just a tiny little troll
posting just to make folks mad, then again I just might give you to much
credit for any reasonable thought processI have this picture of you, Its
Ozzy Osborne in his new commercial, just a thought Merry Christmas.
happy ×—× Ö»×›×” or ×—× ×•×›×” , happy Kwanzaa.. That should cover it for you!! "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 20, 2008 1:23 PM:
Good idea Reverend? Are you with him or against him in this Jesus Season?
How about Rhodie? 'tsup, Rhodie? Shoot-to-kill those non-believers who are co-opting your holiday that was stolen from the Pagans fair and square?
Or do you, too, find yourself conveniently at a loss for words when looking down the barrel of a Christmas gun?
Hypocrites. "
real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:59 PM:
especially the running sideshow of all things God-hatred, billy rubin.
that guy has spefically trashed Christmas in specific for over two years straight.
funny watching a guy lie about history and say the ENTIRE reason we even have Christmas, by continually stating it's nothing more than a "myth", that Jesus Christ never even lived.
when i reminded him in the aost on several occasions that celebrating Christmas PROVES Christ DID live.....billy called me a liar, and said Jesus Christ NEVER lived
"integrity giants" these people are...
i appreciate you taking the heat on this one, and you are 100% correct "
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:51 PM:
If I had gone into that country and said I dont like Shira law or Ramadan or
Honor killings or I was gay I would have been found dead before SundownBy the way I dont have much use for ANY Fundamentalist religion "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:20 PM:
" Leonard, The point I made was those people come here to get from the mess their countries are in and right off start making demands on America. You tell me Leonard whats right about that!!!
The same demands that fundamentalist Christians have been making for decades.
Just yesterday the Bush Administration put through special orders that allow fundamentalist Christian doctors not to advise rape victims about the morning after pill if doing so would conflict with their beliefs.
This sort of thing is as American as apple pie. The fact that you don't like the color or creed of the people making the demands does not change that. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 20, 2008 12:05 PM:
"...Political correctness will be the end of America as we know it[.] All I can say is lock and load!!"
? "
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 11:04 AM:
idea is to fit in. Most do including my brother in-law who has made a good
life for himself here in America as the head engineer in a fortune 500
Company. He said the way a lot of people act here in America they wouldnt last a day in his home country of PakistanPolitical correctness will be the end of America as we know itAll I can say is lock and load!! "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:10 AM:
I take it by the barage of attacks on MY opinion that y'all think I don't have the right to be offended when people who "disdain Christianity" use Christmas as an excuse to get stuff.
The purpose of Christianity is to bring Souls to Christ, not to serve as some sort of exclusive social club for the likes of you.
Yes, your attitude offends me. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:08 AM:
Christmas is just that, not winter solstice,
not winter festival, its Christmas and its not broken so stop trying
to fix it
Don't let the facts get in your way there. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2008 10:08 AM:
Leonard, the people Im referring to are a large group of Somali who along with other Islamics demand we change to fit their needs!
Oh, I see. This behavior only bothers you when it is perpetrated by brown Americans.
Got ya.
Horse S***
Yup... that's the word for this kind of thinking. Its surely sorry to see it coming from you. "
Gator wrote on Dec 20, 2008 9:49 AM:
not to read 3 little pigs in her classI have friends that work
for ARAMCO in Saudi Arabia and live in the western compound
and you can be assured they dont demand anything from the
Saudis. I was going to Saudi Arabia to do training and equipment
repair, I was told to hang onto my passport and airline tickets because if the Saudis got them they would keep me there till all
Repairs were madeWe bend over backwards for people and the
thanks we get is immigrants want more and want change to fit
their needsHorse S*** Christmas is just that, not winter solstice,
not winter festival, its Christmas and its not broken so stop trying
to fix it "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:18 PM:
It would be interesting to get an African-American's perspective on this. "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:15 PM:
" Voter. Do you think African Americans who still live their lives rich with the traditions of thier native Africa would be offended to see the Klan throwing a Kwanzaa feast? "
If the entire country celebrated Kwaanza with feasts --If every store in America had Kwaanza doorbusters and the Kwaanza fairy brought gifts to little redneck children I can't imagine that anybody would be too offended. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:15 PM:
" Okay, the boards are tweaking out again. "
I kept hitting F5 waiting for the refresh so my last message would show up. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:14 PM:
" Rhodie: My understanding is that you take issue with people that just want "stuff" (aka gifts) and use Christmas to get those gifts (aka greed)."
I don't know haw many times I have to say it. It is the people who disdain Christianity but still celebrate Christmas that I have issue with.
I even stated it before "And for most people I'm sure Christmas is a fun time of year and nothing more. I don't begrudge them. Again, it's the people who hate God, ridicule Jesus and call the Bible fiction, then celebrate Christmas I wish would call it "Solstice Day" instead." (Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:23 PM:) "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:10 PM:
" Rhodie: My understanding is that you take issue with people that just want "stuff" (aka gifts) and use Christmas to get those gifts (aka greed).
-------------------
Wow! Looks like I've been posting here since I was a child. LOL! "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:08 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:07 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:06 PM:
Well, I'll have you know that there are many a Christian that do this same thing, so why be so bothered by those that are not Christians and want "stuff" too? This is the point where Sr. Mary Margaret would say "Mind your own sins". "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:05 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:04 PM:
Again, NO. If they spend all year blasting Christanity I think they should call their year end something other than "Christmas, yes. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:02 PM:
" People who "grab stuff" deserve nothing. "
I agree. The surest sign for me that Christmas was going the way of the buffalo was when the fights broke out over the Cabbage patch dolls and again with the tickle me Elmos.
Just this year at least one person was killed on black Friday because people wanted their stuff.
And for those thinking I may be as bad as the rest of society Christmas is simple in our house. One moderate gift for each person in the family and the stockings. The stocking gifts are the little things I've bought for the kids all year long but hid away for Christmas (Funny pens and Indean flutes from travel, books and music I think they might like). "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 11:00 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:57 PM:
I also worked with a Druid many moons ago. Was always saying how wrong Christianity was. How it was a sham, a con, a money-making scheme. But the four years I worked with them they always celebrated Christmas. I asked why once and they just said everyone expects them to. "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:55 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:54 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:54 PM:
Then why not call it kwanzaa instead of Christmas? "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:53 PM:
" "Rhodie: Where do you encounter these people?"
I was just using it as an example. "
Rhodie: I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I was asking where you encounter these folks that bash Christians all year and then go all out at Christmas with their Christmas traditions and saying "Merry Christmas"? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:53 PM:
" Rhodie, your contention that non Christians just want to "get stuff" is extremely unfair."
It is my contention that people who disdain everything Christian for the entire year but want gifts for Christmas only do it for the stuff. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:52 PM:
"People who scoff at the notion of sainthood celebrate Valentines Day with hearts, cards, flowers, and cupids."
You may have given me the sumation I needed here. If a co-worker of your's spent all year talking about how stupid love is, that it is nothing more than a chemical reaction. He constantly goes on about how people in relationships are fools following an outdated mode of social interaction. But on Valentines day comes in and grabs a gift cards for the movies meant as a gift for the people in relationships, would you be a little put off? (recognizing the discrimination aspect of having something for people in relationships but go with me on this one) "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:51 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:47 PM:
I was just using it as an example. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:46 PM:
"As for your comments regarding disdain and contempt, you'll have to explain yourself better."
Calling the tenants of a religions belief structure "fiction", "Fairytales", "insane", "ancient superstition", and "lies" as well as a host of more agressive vocabulary that was not used on this board is disdain and contempt.
Why do would someone who hates all things Christian (except the one day a year they can get stuff from it) still celebrate Christmas? Why not Kwanzaa instead? "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:45 PM:
"I don't know anyone who worships St. Valentine. "
Neither do I. It's become completely secular with no religious connotations whatsoever for the vast majority of us. People who scoff at the notion of sainthood celebrate Valentines Day with hearts, cards, flowers, and cupids. And then, just a month later, we've got green beer and leprechauns flying in the face of another saint--and this time perpetrated by a bunch of drunks. Springtime must be hell. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:43 PM:
Rhodie: Where do you encounter these people? "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:41 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:31 PM:
" Well, Rhodie, Do you have a Christmas tree in your home? Do you exchange Christmas gifts in your family?
If so, do you consider yourself "...a pretty good definition of greed" as you put it?"
I would conceed your point if I spent all year blasting Ba'alists and their fairytale religion then turned around and decorated my house to show my Ba'aliday spirit, shouted "gleeful Ba'aliday" to strangers and waited for people to bring me gifts. That would be greed.
On the opposite side if my neighbor was a devote Ba'alist, observed the teachings as best they could and celebrated the Astrological assention of the sign of Ba'al with the exchange of gifts, then, no I would not call that greed.
Don't you think it would be hypocritical of me to say how wrong something was all year and then celebrate a holiday of its tradition? Don't you think a Ba'alist who has heard me say all sorts of nasty things about their faith would be offended if I spent two weeks a year asking for gifts in their faith's name? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:22 PM:
" Rhodie, would you expect all those who do not worship Saint Valentine to stop sending Valentines?"
I don't know anyone who worships St. Valentine. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:21 PM:
I know there were a lot of posts so let me respond how I already did:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 7:30 PM:
" Leonard wrote on Dec 17, 2008 7:17 PM:
" Most scholars agree that Jesus Christ was born sometime in late summer before September."
"I think I was like 12 when the timing and reasonings were explained to me, by the parish Priest, in front of the who congregation."
So, please, Billy, show me where I am stubbornly holding on to the Dec 25th date when I already agreed with Leonard that the actual birth date was probably in the late summer. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 10:16 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:32 AM:
" I don't know, Joe. I think I get more offended by people saying "Merry Christmas" when they disdain Christianity than when they could say "Happy Holidays" or whatever instead."
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:23 PM:
"And for most people I'm sure Christmas is a fun time of year and nothing more. I don't begrudge them. Again, it's the people who hate God, ridicule Jesus and call the Bible fiction, then celebrate Christmas I wish would call it "Solstice Day" instead (I like Happy Hallmark Day" myself). At least then they are being true to their convictions."
I take it by the barage of attacks on MY opinion that y'all think I don't have the right to be offended when people who "disdain Christianity" use Christmas as an excuse to get stuff. I never said all non-Christians nor any other group BUT those that spend all year spitting on the Bible (metaphorically) then turn around and say "Merry Christmas". I keep thinking I need to just repost what I've already written so those of you who joined late can see what was said. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:08 PM:
As a Christian, I feel that no possible harm can come from non christians celebrating Christmas.
At the worst, nothing will happen but it seems to me that there is a chance that some of them may unintentionally find Christ's message and who could possibly be against that? "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:06 PM:
fit in or dont come here!! Merry Christmas
I don't know Gator, these folks in NC have been here since before the Revolution.
Where would you have them go? "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:04 PM:
Minnesota is a prime example
People want jobs in grocery stores but wont handle pork or liquor.
They had this problem in North Carolina where my mother's family is from. The county they live in was dry until about 10 years ago. When the stores started selling beer the evangelicals raised an unholy ruckus. Some of them even files suit.
Fundamentalists.... you can't live with them and... well you just can't live with them. "
Gator wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:54 PM:
"in or dont come here!! Merry Christmas "" "
Gator wrote on Dec 19, 2008 7:50 PM:
Just dont be stupid enough to say that to mePolitical correctness is
flat out ruining this country. Im sick and tired of people coming to this
Country trying to make it fit their needs. Minnesota is a prime example
People want jobs in grocery stores but wont handle pork or liquor. They
want time off with pay to pray several times a day. They drive Taxis but
you cant bring liquor or dogs in the TaxiThey want a separate prayer
room at the airport along with foot baths. The same goes for the University
of Minnesota. Let me re-phrase want to demand. My answer to that is fit "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:52 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:50 PM:
You speak as if you and fundamentalist Christians alone own Christmas. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:46 PM:
You seem to be laboring under the misconception that Christians somehow "own" this span of dates on the calendar and anyone who walks around with a smile or a kind word on their lips better damn-well be a full-on fundamentalist Christian or there will be hell to pay. YOUR Christmas is by approval only and you're the self-annointed bouncer at the door.
You seem stubbornly disbelieving of the fact that "Jesus Christ" was not born on Dec. 25, in the year 0, and that humans have been celebrating centuries before the bible was written and re-written by the hands of hundreds of men and the "Christmas" holiday was invented.
I'm not really a wizard or ghost and I celebrate Halloween - is that OK with you? I'm not an Easter Bunny, but I still celebrate Easter (which, before you burst into flame, existed BEFORE "Jesus Christ" did. Am I ruining Easter for you, too?
As for your comments regarding disdain and contempt, you'll have to explain yourself better. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:34 PM:
Yes because too many people have stood by while the religious aspects of Christmas have been chipped any by those who hate Christianity but still want their stuff on Dec 25th. That's a pretty good definition of greed.
I have been a Christian my entire life but for you to come here and try to tell people how or whether they should celebrate a holiday that existed centuries before Christ was born and which generally has little to do with Christ is not just preposterous, it smacks of arrogance. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 19, 2008 6:25 PM:
If so, do you consider yourself "...a pretty good definition of greed" as you put it?
Or, are you exempt from your "...definition of greed" only because you consider yourself a devout and deserving Catholic and, therefore, you and your family are qualified to enjoy the American Christmas Holidays (to the exclusion of everyone else) in your mind?
Is everything you do, observe and celebrate connected exclusively with Jesus and his birth, during this season? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 5:51 PM:
IT doesn't deminish my experience. As I said in my first post here "I think I get more offended by people saying "Merry Christmas" when they disdain Christianity than when they could say "Happy Holidays" or whatever instead." (Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:32 AM:)
I have not been talking about the average celibratory people. I have been talking about the ones that spend all year trashing Christianity then spend one month a year saying "Merry Christmas". I would rather they say "happy holiday's" or "Joyful Solstice". At least then they are not bveing hypocrites by pretending to particpate in Christian holiday.
"as celebrated here in the United States, is mainly NOT a Christian holiday."
Yes because too many people have stood by while the religious aspects of Christmas have been chipped any by those who hate Christianity but still want their stuff on Dec 25th. That's a pretty good definition of greed. "
wtf wrote on Dec 19, 2008 5:15 PM:
With education comes knowledge making it more difficult to rule by fear because a big part of fear is fear of the unknown. Since so many religions celebrate during this month, it would be nice to know what they are all about - not to convert anyone - just educate them.
Taking away Christmas trees because it "offends" some people is, to me, stupid. What do these people want? The U.S. to resemble the old U.S.S.R. in bleakness and grayness? I'd much rather celebrate ALL faiths that celebrate in this season of universal brotherly love. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:41 PM:
" I definitely endorse using tax dollars to promote ALL religious faiths in an effort to educate people.
Why?
To my mind, it is not the place of the State to tell me about affairs of the Soul. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:39 PM:
Tell me Billy, why do you celebrate a religious holiday if you hold that religion in such disdain? Christmas IS NOT a secular holiday. It is a Christian celebration.
I would think that it would be pretty clear here that Christmas, as celebrated here in the United States, is mainly NOT a Christian holiday.
With the exception of Christmas Mass, almost everything we do on Christmas has its roots in other traditions, and mainly pagan ones at that. "
wtf wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:26 PM:
God is the mountain top and each different religion is merely a different path to God whatever term is used.
Besides, a display of all the different religions would, to me, be way cool! ;) "
wtf wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:26 PM:
Given the fact that so many religious holidays are celebrated in December:
December 8: Bodhi Day (Buddhist)
http://www.budtempchi.org/bodhiwriteup.html
December 8: Eidul-Adha (Islamic)
http://www.islam101.com/dawah/hajj.html
December 12: Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe (Catholic)
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=456
December 21: Winter Solstice (Lunar Event)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm
December 21: Yule (Pagan/Wiccan)
https://www.msu.edu/user/rohdemar/earth/sabbats/yule.html
December 22: Chanukkah (Jewish)
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday7.htm
December 25: Christmas (Christian)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
December 26: Boxing Day (Canada, Europe & U.K.)
http://www.calendar-updates.com/info/holidays/canada/boxing.aspx
December 26: Kwanzaa (African American)
http://www.tike.com/celeb-kw.htm "
wtf wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:25 PM:
Like Cogito, I totally agree with this; however, given the recent use of our tax dollars
Bailout payout tops $8 trillion
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/16620
(That comes out to about $100,000 per household - plus accruing interest - in tax bills, for which we receive NOTHING in return!) "
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:11 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:09 PM:
voter: You're absolutely right. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:05 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 19, 2008 2:47 PM:
Tell me Billy, why do you celebrate a religious holiday if you hold that religion in such disdain? Christmas IS NOT a secular holiday. It is a Christian celebration. So, please, explain to us all why you celebrate a Christian holiday. Is Christmas the only thing Christian you observe simply because it means you get stuff? Do you do it for no other reason than the rest of society does it? Explain why, when you hold Jesus, his teachings and his followers in such contempt, you still spend money on in observance of his birthday.
You belittle Christians as hypocrites who don't practice what they preach but why is it okay for you to say that the one of the most holy days in Christan observance is fine to celebrate? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 19, 2008 1:01 PM:
According to Rhodie, I must rip down our Christmas lights, throw all the Christmas cookies in the garbage, burn without opening any Christmas cards that come, discard the Christmas tree under cover of the dark of night and otherwise dispose of all trappings of Christmas; because all of these symbols of Rhodie's lord and Savior Jesus Christ are defiled by non-believers like me.
Simply put: Under Rhodie's rule I would not be allowed to celebrate or acknowledge Christmas. There would be no options, all must celebrate Christmas Rhodie's way or be banned.
More loving, all-encompassing Christianity. Or religulousness or something. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 19, 2008 8:18 AM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 19, 2008 5:00 AM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 18, 2008 9:08 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 18, 2008 7:12 PM:
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 6:06 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 5:35 PM:
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 2:01 PM:
As you can see, I am in the Holiday/Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah/Solstice mood, not my usual crabby self.....
**Don't** mess it up! LOL! "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 18, 2008 12:31 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:57 AM:
Good thing the ACLU wasn't around back then to force them not to recognize a single religion since they were government employees at the time. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:54 AM:
Isn't it sad though that it is only during this time that people think about treating each other better. That is unless the other person is grabbing the last Cabbage Patch doll or Tickle Me Elmo. Then it becomes a free for all. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:43 AM:
If you seek evidence just look at the history of the last two hundred years.
As a Jew, I think Gandhi's quote on the subject pretty much sums it up for me.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." "
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:40 AM:
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:40 AM:
http://www.secondattention.org/articles/psy_christmas.asp "
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:39 AM:
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:39 AM:
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:39 AM:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/joyeuxnoel/main.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5iDz8Ul_AQ&feature=related
Note that the song Silent Night and the Christmas Tree were recognized by all parties and helped pave the way for the temporary truce. "
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:38 AM:
As I got older and my beliefs evolved, I began making my gifts because they took time and were from my heart. I also enjoy learning about all of the other forms of celebration and have no problem with Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwanzaa, or any other greeting during this time because, to me, what **really** counts is the ***feeling*** of compassion and love. "
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:38 AM:
And, believe it or not, the Christmas Tree is celebrated around the world. Here are a few links to pics of trees from all over the globe. The last link has a power point presentation.
http://www.pbase.com/ralf/xmas_trees&page=all
http://julianaslair.com/2007/12/02/christmas-trees-around-the-world/
http://www.guy-sports.com/humor/christmas/christmastide_lights.htm "
wtf wrote on Dec 18, 2008 11:37 AM:
Hmmmmmif I were that librarian, rather than take *away* the Christmas tree; I would **add** to it the celebrations from other cultures because the complaints from those who wished to remain anonymous said more about them than the display of the Christmas Tree. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 10:29 AM:
I offered justification for my opinion, Ivan, can you offer justifications for yours? "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 18, 2008 8:46 AM:
Again, in my opinion there is no such thing as an "Atheist".
And the last Christian died on the Cross. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 8:03 AM:
How about a man who obeys the law to aplease his King?
"Of course, some of us simply obey the speed laws because it is the right thing to do to keep us, our families and those around us safe."
And when you come to the end of the road what waits for you? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 7:59 AM:
Again, in my opinion there is no such thing as an "Atheist". IF there is no belief in a faith then they have simply replaced that void with belief in something else, science, humanistics or societial acceptance (to name the big ones). And their "principles" are simly based on what their replacement belief allows them to do. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 18, 2008 7:52 AM:
I wrote last night:
"There are people who have a Sunday social club they show up for regularly. They are about as convicted to their faith as a Lion to eating vegetables."
Yes, there are even ministers who have their Sunday social clubs. I like the imagery Frank Peretti paints in his This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness books about the struggle inside all of us with our darker side. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2008 6:57 AM:
That said, I have also known many highly principled men and women who were atheists or agnostics.
The most depraved and abased man I have ever met was a Christian minister.
He molested children. Apparently, the fear of a heavenly ticket wasn't enough to keep in line. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2008 6:54 AM:
For the most part people who know there is a cop on the highway don't speed. People who don't know/care if there is a cop on the highway tend to speed.
Of course, some of us simply obey the speed laws because it is the right thing to do to keep us, our families and those around us safe.
I am not sure how much virtue I see in a man who merely obeys the law to avoid punishment. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:33 PM:
There are those who seem to hate all things Christian so why should I believe them when they say "Merry Christmas"? I'd rather they say "happy Holidays" (if my other suggestions are to trend-setting for them), at leas then they are being consistant. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:31 PM:
The directive was to "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations". It never said how. Personally I like the adaptation of pagan traditions to entice better than the kill all unbelievers method. But if some have a problem with that That is their dilemma. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:26 PM:
" Rhodie: How many people do you encounter that "...spit (metaphorically) on the Bible all year long" and turn around to say "Merry Christmas"? Is this a big problem? I don't see it. "
Were you reading the posts here for the past few months (and I suspect longer)? Fiction, ancient supersticion and fairy tale are not terms of endurement or tolerance but spitting on the Bible (metephorically). "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:23 PM:
It offends me not disrespects me. I think it disrespects someone way more important than me.
And for most people I'm sure Christmas is a fun time of year and nothing more. I don't begrudge them. Again, it's the people who hate God, ridicule Jesus and call the Bible fiction, then celebrate Christmas I wish would call it "Solstice Day" instead (I like Happy Hallmark Day" myself). At least then they are being true to their convictions.
One thing I hate is two-facity. If you are going to have a conviction, a cause or a value, be true to it all the time. If you can't don't mock those who don't agree with you. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:22 PM:
Yes, many of them are borrowed. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:20 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:19 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:17 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:17 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:16 PM:
Sure, next thing you know you'll be telling me Jesus wasn't really white.
Relax I know he would have been from Middle Eastern, Jewish descent. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:14 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:12 PM:
To most others it probably isn't a big deal. But why call it Christmas if it isn't what you believe. Call it Festivus or Winter festival or Greed day for all I care, but when someone who spits (metaphorically) on the Bible all year long turns around and says "Merry Christmas", I get offended. Which is what I originally said way down at the bottom "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:11 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:09 PM:
voter: I saw the same documentary on PBS. I recorded it for our home library. It was fascinating indeed. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:08 PM:
Actually had to address this issue in H.S. Went to a private Catholic H.S. and one of the kids over the weekend beat another up so bad that surgery was needed. An athiest teacher put aside the lesson plan to pose the same arguement you posted. The TRUTH is (at least for Catholism, I can only speak what I know) that repentance and forgiveness is a matter of spiritual conviction. You can't commit the crimes and say "I'll ask forgiveness for it later." I've heard more than one priest say if they don't believe you're sorry (i.e. confessing it just to be safe but not really thinking you did something wrong or not having any intention to change) they'd walk out of the confessional.
Christians who live their life expecting a last minute act of repentance with not real spiritual conversion to save them may get a big surprise. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:07 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:05 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:01 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:59 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:58 PM:
Then they should call it something else. "No, we don't celebrate Christmas, but we observe the winter solstice four days late."
Let's put it another way. At your wedding someone spends the entire cerimony whispering in the crowd how same sex marriage is wrong, scowling and scoffs at the vows taken. At the reception mocks gay marriage more all the while eating the food provided and even gives a half-hearted "congrats I guess". Would you be offended? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:53 PM:
I think an important distinction needs to be made here. There are people who have a Sunday social club they show up for regularly. They are about as convicted to their faith as a Lion to eating vegetables. Then there are people of faith who go on Sundays (or what ever their day of worship is) to get recharged and celibrate their faith with other similar believers. They live the lessons taught in their book of worship. In Christian/scriptural terms they have faith tested in fire. That is they live a life in which people can see God reflected in them. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:52 PM:
Geez, Rhodie, bad analogy. Celebrating Christmas with trees and lights is not akin to dog fighting, which is cruel and illegal. If someone, that says they don't believe if Christ, wants to put up a tree and lights at Christmas why would that bother you? Maybe there is a spark there that could be kindled during the reason for the season. Don't put those people down. WWJD? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:49 PM:
Should the politican have the ability to vote according to their religious beliefs? Let's take abortion. If a politician's faith condemns abortion do you think the politician should not be allowed to 1) vote on any issues related to abortion. Or 2) be allowed to vote but only if they can justify their vote using non-religious criteria as a justification? "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:48 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:45 PM:
I think people who are aware of what happens to them after this life conduct themselves in a way different than those who think this is it. (to continue an analogy from an earlier discussion) For the most part people who know there is a cop on the highway don't speed. People who don't know/care if there is a cop on the highway tend to speed. "
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:44 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:41 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:39 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:38 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:36 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:34 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:34 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:25 PM:
I think it is more dangerous to remove religious influences (moral code of conduct) from politics. Unfortunately (IMHO) more and more political leaders are devoid of a moral compass. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:23 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:16 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:12 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 10:07 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:58 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:50 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:49 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:47 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:47 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:39 PM:
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:35 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 8:37 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 7:30 PM:
" Most scholars agree that Jesus Christ was born sometime in late summer before September."
I think I was like 12 when the timing and reasonings were explained to me, by the parish Priest, in front of the who congregation.
People who think Decmber 25th was the actual birth date don't know much about sheparding. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 7:26 PM:
That said I also recognize why some Christians have bought into the whole Hallmark version of Christmas, they just want to have some fun with the season. I don't understand why people who are not Christian still celebrate Christmas. I am absolutely dumbfounded as to why people who spend all year saying Jesus was a lie and God doesn't exist still celebrate Christmas. It is hypocritical. Along the lines of a PETA member hosting dog-fighting in his basement. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 17, 2008 7:17 PM:
The holiday that is celebrated in late December is a pagan winter festival to which Christian trappings have been appended.
For an interesting discussion of the timing of Christ's birth based on Scriptural evidence, check out this link:
http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ARTB/k/568/When-Was-Jesus-Born.htm "
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 6:39 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 6:36 PM:
4AStrongLodi wrote on Dec 17, 2008 6:26 PM:
Happy Hannukah!
Happy Festivus! "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 5:48 PM:
How about Fundimentalist Athiests? "
voter wrote on Dec 17, 2008 3:51 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:34 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:08 PM:
If the hypocrites would use logic making their points it would be easier. But then they wouldn't be hypocrites, would they? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 12:43 PM:
Actually I tried to be very clear that I thought it was my religious right to vote what I believed to be morally right.
But this line takes us into taboo subjects so that is the end of that subject for me, here and now. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 17, 2008 11:59 AM:
"...I thought you had stated that the Bible was fiction during the whole Prop 8 debate."
Apparently Rhodie was not one of those who dishonestly claimed Prop 8 was not about religion. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 17, 2008 9:13 AM:
If Adams and Hancock said it, it's practically treasonous to believe anything else, right? Good ol' American compulsory Christianity. Believe or be gone. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 17, 2008 8:45 AM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 17, 2008 12:28 AM:
I'm sorry Voter, I must have you confused with someone else. I knew I should have bought that notebook to avoid this kind of confusion. I thought you had stated that the Bible was fiction during the whole Prop 8 debate. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 16, 2008 9:57 PM:
educated reader wrote on Dec 16, 2008 8:18 PM:
I think the occasion of Christmas prompts many to just "BELIEVE," no matter the details of their individual traditions. "
voter wrote on Dec 16, 2008 4:55 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 16, 2008 4:40 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 16, 2008 4:30 PM:
No where on any of these threads have I ever said that "Jesus was a lie," only that it is my belief that fundamentalist religion of any flavor is ignorant and dangerous. You have no idea what my spiritual beliefs may or may not be. I have never stated them on these boards. Certainly, I would fight for your right to worship in any manner you choose, whether I believed the same or not. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 16, 2008 3:56 PM:
" Rhodie, how do you feel about Christians who have those giant inflatable false idols out on the front lawn? You know, the rotund gent in the red suit?"
I think it is tacky and demonstrates the sociatal pushing of God out. I also think this about Elvis, Enterprise and Barbie Christmas ornamants. In my house the kids know Santa is purely a social creation (based on legend of a real person) while the Celebration of Christmas is Jesus' Birth. Hence I don't understand why people who reject Jesus celebrate Christmas. To me this is like the Klan observing Martin Luther King Day (an extreme example to show the conflict of celebrating something a group fights against).
How bout you Voter, is there Christmas in your house? You have repeatedly said how Jesus is a lie and belittled Christian beliefs, so do you still exchange gifts on Dec 25th? "
Bob Loblaw wrote on Dec 16, 2008 3:45 PM:
voter wrote on Dec 16, 2008 3:22 PM:
Merry Christmas, everyone! "
dougc wrote on Dec 16, 2008 9:20 AM:
Patricia wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:03 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 4:32 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 15, 2008 12:45 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:32 AM:
educated reader wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:21 AM:
WELL DONE!!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT! "
Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 9:13 AM:
M E R R Y
C H R I S T M A S !!!! "
educated reader wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:50 PM:
Joe: An incredibly uneducated and, to say the least, ignorant comment about the "students who happily accept our generosity by allowing them to study at American universities." This is not "generosity." Universities actively recruit out of state and foreign students so they can collect the enormously inflated tuition that is charged for these categories of students. No generosity is involved at all. Stanislaus State charges $1802.00 per semester for full-time enrollment for in-state students. An additional charge of $339 per unit is added for out-of-state and foreign students =, by my calculation, an additional $4068.00 for 12 units. "Generosity?" For the price, any student, foreign, local or otherwise should be able to voice their opinion. Whether those opinions are acted upon by administration is another matter. "
Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:35 AM:
WY wrote on Dec 13, 2008 8:47 PM:
Gator wrote on Dec 13, 2008 1:04 PM:
Patricia wrote on Dec 13, 2008 10:14 AM:
Observer wrote on Dec 13, 2008 10:08 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.