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Council gives OK to Wal-Mart

By News-Sentinel staff
Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:03 AM PST

Comments (184 comment(s))

After a meeting that lasted for more than six hours, the Lodi City Council gave the green light for the Wal-Mart Supercenter plans to continue.

The council voted 3-2 early this morning to overturn the Planning Commission and approve parts of the environmental impact report for a new Wal-Mart Supercenter.

Councilmen Phil Katzakian, Bob Johnson and Mayor Larry Hansen voted to approve the Final Revised Environmental Impact Report. Councilwomen Susan Hitchcok and JoAnne Mounce voted against the project.

The report still has to be approved by a court that has previously overturned the city's approval for this project because it said the report did not list enough specifics about the effects of Wal-Mart.

After the court ruling, Wal-Mart and developers Browman Development made changes and presented the report to the Planning Commission. The commission rejected it 5 to 1, with one member abstaining in October.

The city also has to send the report back to the Planning Commission so it can review the remaining elements in the report, including an application to sell alcoholic beverages, a map of the project and architectural plans.

Reader Feedback

real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2008 5:17 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 2:03 PM:
real facts said...."i already told my family make sure you shut the ventilator off as i already know where i am going"


Walmart?? "
***************************************

ok, that was funny, but no.

besides, the SWM might actually carry defibrillators in stock

the only part of WM i consider "heaven", is when i am jonesing for some chocolate oreo's, and they have those there for $2.50.

not "heaven", but close "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 16, 2008 3:45 PM:

" Oh, and it dosn't escape me that you avoided the question of why you shop at a place you have belaboured as filthy with bad to non-existant customer service and as a "dumpy monstrosity".

I would think if this was your real impression of Wal-mart you wouldn't caught dead in one of them. "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 16, 2008 3:41 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 2:02 PM:
" Rhodie wrote "If Walmart is such a hole of lowest human behavior then why do you CHOOSE to go into them?"
Those are your words, not mine.

That is your inferance when you discribe (apparently your fellow) shoppers as "trash", when you complain that SWM will bring gangs and crime and when you point out with disdain the condition and people you see at the Stockton SWM. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 2:03 PM:

" -----

"i already told my family make sure you shut the ventilator off as i already know where i am going"


Walmart?? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 2:02 PM:

" Rhodie wrote "If Walmart is such a hole of lowest human behavior then why do you CHOOSE to go into them?"

Those are your words, not mine. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Up your nose with a rubber hose. "

now your dizzy, and your getting your big box stores mixed up. the blog about lowes is farther down

but hey, it depends on the circumference, and i much prefer something more recycleable, and i already told my family make sure you shut the ventilator off as i already know where i am going

you know, wisdom dictates a man/woman learns these valubale lessons BEFORE they die, because in eternity, there are no "SWM's"

see what happens when your lack of self control clashes with my name in your dizzying head? "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 16, 2008 12:25 PM:

" "I shop in all sorts of stores, including Walmart."

I'm curious, if all walmarts are "dumpy monstrosities" then why do you go in them at all? There are stores I can't stand (K-Mart for one) and I find what I need without going in them. If Walmart is such a hole of lowest human behavior then why do you CHOOSE to go into them? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Up your nose with a rubber hose. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2008 11:04 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:46 AM:
Just like RF you seem to digress from debating the topic in order to try and belittle opposing views and opinions by making it personal").

oh here we go again.

the queen of all things drama in these blogs calling the kettle "black" once again in the midst of another "memory blackout"

it's tragic the blog police cannot fine you for comments like these when you 'attempt' to blame others for the behavior(S) you pull in here

maybe we should re-visit "personal", and see how far you get with your accusations (thats code for someday you will learn to keep me out of your imaginative mind) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 11:01 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Lodian, I don't see SWM as unhealthy growth. "

SWM is not a good fit for Lodi. One of us will see our wish come true. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2008 10:58 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 8:14 PM:
" Lodian, I'm not putting anyone down for shopping anywhere, that seems to be your department. "

I don't put anyone down for shopping anywhere. Why would I? That's just ridiculous. Like I've said, from garage sales and Goodwill to Coach and Tiffany's, my shopping has always been diverse. I shop in all sorts of stores, including Walmart. I prefer second hand stores the most. In recent years I have also discovered the joy of online shopping. Anyway, again you are barking up the wrong tree in trying decide why I am not for a SWM in Lodi. SWM is simply not a good fit for Lodi. We already have a Walmart. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 8:16 PM:

" Lodian, I don't see SWM as unhealthy growth. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 8:14 PM:

" Lodian, I'm not putting anyone down for shopping anywhere, that seems to be your department. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 8:13 PM:

" Lodian, "can do better" than who? "

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sam wrote on Dec 15, 2008 6:13 PM:

" dyan wrote on Dec 12, 2008 9:13 AM:" Aren't politics a joke? All those people went to the Council to speak and in the end, the vote went exactly as predicted. Money talks... everything else walks. "

Ha, you are so right. Unless you can provide an attorney who will scare the CC from voting "as usual" with a law suit or two, they are so predictable. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 3:27 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 1:39 PM:

"Lodian' then could you explain your 10;49 blog?"

Cogito: It was a short and sweet comment. Seems clear to me. What is your question? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 3:25 PM:

" Cogito: Like I said (and you chose not to address) I enjoy shopping at the Goodwill store as well as garage sales etc.

Is this the "upscale" shopping you were describing when you said, "Rhodie, Lodian obviously thinks that if you shop at more expensive, upscale businesses, that means your a better person."?

That's a real snide remark, Cogito. Please explain to us what an "upscale" shopping is to you? Isn't it all relative?

Are you going to put me down now that you know I enjoy shopping at the Goodwill store and garage sales? You keep trying to figure out why I would not like to have a SWM in Lodi besides the simple facts I have listed.

You want to make this more about ME rather than the facts about SWM and healthy growth in Lodi. Why is that the case with you? Please explain. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Lodian' then could you explain your 10;49 blog? By the way, I'm not here to live up to your expectations. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:46 AM:

" pardon the double "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:46 AM:

" Lodisafeway wrote "Therefore, unless I find something of interest to engage in with you in a true debate, I will simply do as I have failed to do thus far - ignore you."

Lodisafeway: H a l l e l u j a h !

And I will no longer indulge your strange desire in dissecting my feelings rather than discuss the words/position stated in any given debate. Just like RF you seem to digress from debating the topic in order to try and belittle opposing views and opinions by making it personal. That's unfortunate as I think we have all had enough of such odd behavior. Ciao! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Lodisafeway wrote "Therefore, unless I find something of interest to engage in with you in a true debate, I will simply do as I have failed to do thus far - ignore you."

Lodisafeway: H a l l e l u j a h !

And I will no longer indulge your strange desire in dissecting my feelings rather than discuss the words/position stated in any given debate. Just like RF you seem to digress from debating the topic in order to try and belittle opposing views and opinions. That's unfortunate as I think we have all had enough of such odd behavior. Ciao! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:38 AM:

" LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:16 AM:

" No, Lodian - you do not wish to "debate" anything at all.

Lodisafeway: There ya go trying to tell me what I wish. Are we on topic yet? I see you are not going to let this go and continue trying to analyze me.

*yawn* "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:36 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Rhodie, Lodian obviously thinks that if you shop at more expensive, upscale businesses, that means your a better person. "

Cogito: Ya, that's classy and respectful. I expected more from you Cogito. For your information, I enjoy shopping at the Goodwill store as well as garage sales. Is this the "upscale" you were describing? Any questions? "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 15, 2008 11:16 AM:

" No, Lodian - you do not wish to "debate" anything at all. You've made that absolutely, crystal clear in your posts since this matter was being scheduled for the City Council meeting. And that's perfectly acceptable. Once again, as long as we confine ourselves to the Posted Rules there shouldn't be a problem. But even as you and I now argue over the definition of "debate," we are on the cusp of violating those very rules ("Comments unrelated to the story").

Therefore, unless I find something of interest to engage in with you in a true debate, I will simply do as I have failed to do thus far - ignore you. You do whatever you desire. Of course I don't think this will cause any unhappiness for you (at least not that you would state here); you and I should now be able to coexist on this blog with little unnecessary conflict. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Rhodie, Lodian obviously thinks that if you shop at more expensive, upscale businesses, that means your a better person. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:50 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:43 PM:

" Lodian, "bored" in GALT! No way! "


Gotta love that flea market! :-) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:03 AM:

" I agree Cogito. I guess I was just raised to look for the good in people"

Really? Well, if seeing the good in people is your goal then I think you can do better. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:46 AM:

" Lodisafeway wrote "You are too blinded by your fear and hatred for the corporation."

Lodisafeway: Fear and hatred? Please! Youre just trying to belittle my view and position on this SWM project again. Like I said before, you can say whatever you like, but it doesn't make it a reality. If it makes you feel better about your position on this subject to say the same thing over and over again, even though I already addressed your assumption of any hatred on my part, then I guess you'll just have to continue to be under the wrong impression. Its your choice not to hear what is said and I will no longer expect anything more from you. It's unfortunate that this is now how you insist to present your views. I prefer to debate the issue, but you seem to enjoy trying to make my opposing view about hate. That's your opinion, but its simply not the case. Hopefully in future discussions you will be able to discuss/debate an issue rather than try to figure out and present how others are "feeling" when they state their position. I wont hold my breath. "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 10:03 AM:

" I agree Cogito. I guess I was just raised to look for the good in people. But to each their own, I guess. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 15, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Rhodie, those people will always find what they're looking for, because that's all they're looking for. "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 15, 2008 7:22 AM:

" "Of course all of those "quotes" are out of context"

That's why when I quoted I also refered to when the quote was made so if someone wanted to see they could go back and read the whole thing. Otherwise I could of squeezed another in.

Side note: My oldest son just came over and asked why I visit this site. I explained the LNS page then refered to this article and how some feel that Walmarts are "dumpy Monstrosities" that attract "trash", gangs and the lowest denominator of people. His response, "what world are those people living in?" See, we're there all the time and we just don't see the gangs, "trash" and other social abominations those who fear Walmart claim they do. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 15, 2008 6:52 AM:

" Obviously, Lodian you did not observe the entire City Council meeting. Had you paid attention to Ms. Hitchcock's questions during the citizens' comments part of the meeting you might have a better idea as to what I was referring to.

That being said, I wouldn't expect you to accept that anyone said anything disparaging about either Wal-Mart or those who support its expansion. You are too blinded by your fear and hatred for the corporation. Yes, I said "hatred" because your attitude here (and elsewhere on this forum) indicates nothing less than utter contempt for them. Of course you may "feel" differently, but your own posts belie any such well-hidden feelings. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:43 PM:

" Lodian, "bored" in GALT! No way! "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:41 PM:

" You know, on second thought, maybe Hitchcock is right. Lodi has a lot more in common, business wise, with Vegas than it does with Carmel. With Carson City too! The only difference between Lodi and Carmel is , well......., everything. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:40 PM:

" Cogito wrote "Lodian, a friend of mine, a big time Lodi banker, told me of a recent business trip in which he visited a SWM. He called it one of the coolest stores he'd ever been into."

Cogito: I've been to SWM's all across the country and my opinion is opposite of your friend. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:23 PM:

" Rhodie: Sorry, buddy, but it's just weird that you took the time to copy and paste all those quotes. Geez louise, put your noggin to better use. You're so "melodramatic".

:-) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:19 PM:

" Rhodie: You sound more like "hwsnbn" everyday. Ya been taking lessons from RF?

Of course all of those "quotes" are out of context, but I still don't see all the melodrama you seem to think you are sniffing out as you run behind Cogito on this one. Aren't you being a little "melodramatic" with all of this melodrama stuff? Geez, what a non-issue. And you two say I am making too much of a SWM?? That's rich. You guys must be bored. LOL! "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 14, 2008 8:25 PM:

" The melodrama is easy to find. These are only from an article and a half.

Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:36 AM:
"Cogito: Again, I don't know where you think I was so melodramatic."
Lodian wrote on Dec 8, 2008 9:20 AM
"I do not see one reason to allow this monstrosity to be built in Lodi"
Lodian wrote on Dec 8, 2008 4:44 PM:
" Studies show that land hungry chains, such as this SWM monstrosity"
"Lodian wrote on Dec 12, 2008 12:15" AMIt is 100% COMPLETELY ignorant to think for one minute that masses of people from Stockton will not come to the Lodi SWM. For one thing, the Stockton SWM SUCKS! They're gonna want a new one to invade."
Lodian wrote on Dec 12, 2008 2:14 PM:
" sam: It's the shoppers they attract and the way in which Walmart operates. I know Rhodie would call that an elitist snobby comment, but it's the truth"
In regards to the last quote, Lodian, ever read the Millionaire Next Door? The average millionaire (the ones who work for their money) shop at places like and including Walmart because they know where to look for bargins. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 12:08 PM:

" 16925, where did you get your info! "Approx" doesn't work for me. I was able to find the dimensions of 2 of their stores, they were 163,000, and 164,000 sq.ft. respectively. Since the Lodi Lowes looks exactly like every other Lowes I've been in, I'm assuming that theirs is similar. Since approx. double that is 326,000 sq.ft., you only missed by your total assumption of the "approx" entire size of the Lodi store. I could be wrong, but excuse me if I don't go by someones guess. When you add in the outside garden center, you may be looking at a footprint "approx" the same size as Lowes for the SWM. I may be wrong, so show me. "

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16925 wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:38 AM:

" I have been to the SWM outside of Reno. It is a zoo and the meats and produce are very low quality. "

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16925 wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:36 AM:

" Aprox 2x times the size of Lowes. I hear SWM is 225,000 sq ft "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:33 AM:

" Lodian, a friend of mine, a big time Lodi banker, told me of a recent business trip in which he visited a SWM. He called it one of the coolest stores he'd ever been into. Why do you hold your entire definition of what a SWM is based only on the Stockton store? Is it because others may influence your belief system in which your mind is already made up? Or is it because you've never been over 20 miles from home? "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:28 AM:

" Lodian, go to the Target on Pacific Ave. in Stockton. It looks nothing like the Lodi Target. As far as the "monstrous" thing, how much significantly bigger than Lowes will the new SWM be? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:16 AM:

" Cogito:

Monstrous; Exceptionally large; enormous

Yes, that describes the SWM all right. In what way is that melodramatic? Are you of the opinion that a SWM is a small business or building? Are you of the opinion that a SWM has a small impact? What is it exactly that does not fit a SWM when I say it is "monstrous"? Have you ever seen a SWM? Been inside a SWM? And as far as your friends that "love" SWM, I guess its all relative. Hopefully their SWM is a heck of a lot better than the Stockton SWM, which is what we can expect if this one gets built here in Lodi. So many people keep wanting to compare this SWM with some "nice" store they saw in some other state, but why do they ignore what is already in our own backyard? The Stockton SWM is an obvious example of what we can expect in Lodi. NO THANKS! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:57 AM:

" fawn lebowitz: Have a nice day. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Lodian, thanks for proving my point though. Referring to SWM as "monstrous" "with a history of big problems" I think fits the "melodramatic" definition. There are many SWMs all over the country that are loved by the locals. I have friends in Phoenix and Dallas that love theirs. Thew people in Phoenix are some high profile folks too, not gang bangers or welfare queens. "

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fawn lebowitz wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:49 AM:

" Lodian-no, not weird...you're comments reflect an emotional involvement absent of reason. You tend to personally attack when peeps don't agree with you, that's all. I hope you have a great Sunday. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:43 AM:

" But Lodian, where were you when these "worse" businesses were being proposed? Were you as adamantly opposed to porn and nude dancing as you are to WalMart selling produce? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:36 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Mel-o-dra-ma-tic(adj): exaggerated and emotional or sentimental; sensational or sensationalized; overdramatic.
Synonyms: histrionic, sensational, theatrical, emotional, exaggerated, showy, artificial, and best of all overemotional. "
------------

Cogito: Again, I don't know where you think I was so melodramatic. When the conversation/debate cranks up then so do to comments. To pluck mine out of the bunch in unfair. Could it be that you think my view about SWM coming to Lodi is "melodramatic" simply because I am of an opposing view? Perhaps you should have been at the CC meeting the other night where there were a lot of Walmart supporters there in force with plenty of melodrama (pouring it on with melodrama!). "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:25 AM:

" fawn lebowitz wrote "I totally agree with Cog's comments on Lodian."

That's sort of a weird thing to say. I'm not the topic of this blog. Now, if you'd like to address my views on this story (SWM) then great... go for it. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:17 AM:

" Cogito wrote "Lodian, with gangs, drugs, prostitution at day spas, legal gambling, live nude shows and porn stores, I think SWM isn't the biggest problem for "your family town/neighborhood you call home". I think if you really care, and I believe you do, you should reprioritize."

Cogito: I can appreciate that and those you mentioned are of great concern as well. These are businesses (some illegal obviously) that we cannot sit idle by and hope all goes well with their presence in town. The fact is that the SWM is monstrous with a history of big problems. We need to be proactive about these issues in Lodi. We already have a Walmart and bringing the monstrosity to town is not the best fit for Lodi for many reasons (already spoken of at length). Just because there are "worse" things we could be addressing in town does not mean that we let others slip by without close scrutiny and careful decisions. "

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fawn lebowitz wrote on Dec 14, 2008 10:08 AM:

" correction to my post...not two differences, meant to say "the only difference between Carmel and Vegas...
I totally agree with Cog's comments on Lodian. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:57 AM:

" Fawn, she obviously wasn't using common sense when she made THAT statement. How embarrassing. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Mel-o-dra-ma-tic(adj): exaggerated and emotional or sentimental; sensational or sensationalized; overdramatic.
Synonyms: histrionic, sensational, theatrical, emotional, exaggerated, showy, artificial, and best of all overemotional. "

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fawn lebowitz wrote on Dec 14, 2008 9:52 AM:

" I'm not quite sure about distasteful with respect to Hitchcock-but the two ridiculous things she said at the meeting were that the only two differences between Las Vegas and Carmel is planning. She also commented to the Bowman guy that she likes "to use common sense most of the time." Does that mean she doesn't use it the rest of the time? "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 13, 2008 10:37 PM:

" Lodian, with gangs, drugs, prostitution at day spas, legal gambling, live nude shows and porn stores, I think SWM isn't the biggest problem for "your family town/neighborhood you call home". I think if you really care, and I believe you do, you should reprioritize. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 13, 2008 9:07 PM:

" Cogito: I don't ever have to shop at SWM for it to affect me, my family and the town/neighborhood I call home. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 13, 2008 9:04 PM:

" Cogito: Melodramatic? I don't know what you mean. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 13, 2008 4:41 PM:

" Lodian, I know people all over the country and I've never heard of any "deep wound"ing going on by their local Wal Mart. I think you're either being overly melodramatic about this whole thing, or you've been buying into the melodrama someone else is selling. Really, you, and those who believe like you, just don't shop there. How easy is that? If SWM drives some other corporate chain grocery store out of business, so what! Too bad they couldn't compete. That's capitalism. I strongly believe in capitalism. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 12, 2008 9:28 PM:

" Rhodie wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Does anyone else wonder how long until LNS starts blocking comments on Wal-mart? ;) "


Rhodie: As long as we don't start debating Bible verses and gay marriage we should be okay. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 12, 2008 9:25 PM:

" Lodisafeway wrote "I was even more concerned about Council member Hitchcock's overt disdain directed not only at Wal-Mart but its employees as well. She did little to hide her personal feelings; something that I find distasteful in someone who is supposed to at least appear objective."

Lodisafeway: In what way was Hitchcock remotely distasteful? I never saw her show any personal feelings or disdain towards anyone from Walmart whatsoever. I was concerned that the CC did not ask more questions about the NEW information they received about the EIR, brought to their attention by Jolly. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 9:59 AM:

" Dyan - I don't think it is necessarily a joke; but since the matter was clearly divided prior to the meeting as it was, why would anyone believe that by stepping up to a microphone would alter the opinions of the decision makers? There was nothing new from the number of citizens who pleaded with them to vote for or against this particular matter.

Of more concern to me was that the meeting did turn into a love/hate-a-thon about Wal-Mart when the meeting was supposed to determine whether or not the requirements placed on the City by the Superior Court were satisfied. Only once or twice did any Council member remind people that their feelings about Wal-Mart were not the purpose for the meeting, but little was done to keep the discourse on track.

I was even more concerned about Council member Hitchcock's overt disdain directed not only at Wal-Mart but its employees as well. She did little to hide her personal feelings; something that I find distasteful in someone who is supposed to at least appear objective.

Nevertheless, this matter is not yet concluded. There are a number of hoops yet to jump through. "

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dyan wrote on Dec 12, 2008 9:13 AM:

" Aren't politics a joke? All those people went to the Council to speak and in the end, the vote went exactly as predicted. Money talks... everything else walks. "

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Acampo_Mom wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:57 AM:

" I think I'd have to agree with LodiSafeway this time (can't destroy something that does not exist).

Even though I HATE shopping at Walmart (I mean I really really dread walking through the doors of the place) I still shop there. There are some deals that you just can't get anywhere else, and I don't like to pay more for something if I don't have to. If Safeway (my preferred store) offered comparable deals to Walmart and Food 4 Less, then I would go back to Safeway. Until then, I'm joining the ranks of unhappy bargain shoppers trying to make ends meet. "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Does anyone else wonder how long until LNS starts blocking comments on Wal-mart? ;) "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:38 AM:

" "who can think of why anyone from any other community in California would wake up on a bright and sunny morning and turn to their spouse and/or family and say, "Let's go to Lodi today!"?"

See, this is why I think an over the top family entertainment complex in the old WM would be a great idea for Lodi (if only I had the capitol, I seriously would). With a mini theater, arcade, games, mini golf course, food venders (both chain and local), a small dance area, and (in my fantasy world) a small stage setup for local bands to come and perform.

So how much is the lottery up to this week? "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:18 AM:

" Face it folks, regardless of Council member Mounce's fear that Lodi may soon become "Anywhere, USA" that is precisely what we are. No matter which road anyone travels to visit our fair city, aside from the Lodi Visitor's Center on Turner Road (for east-bound visitors from I-5), there is absolutely nothing distinctive about Lodi's landscape. And once they do find the downtown area, what exists there that could possibly draw them in or convince them to return on a later date or recommend to anyone else that Lodi needs to be visited?

I suppose I can sum up my concern in this fashion: who can think of why anyone from any other community in California would wake up on a bright and sunny morning and turn to their spouse and/or family and say, "Let's go to Lodi today!"?

My point is that a Supercenter could not possibly destroy Lodi's small-town feeling or its uniqueness - because Lodi is not a small town and it is not unique. Once again, I don't ask these questions to demean or disparage Lodi; but how can Wal-Mart (or anyone/anything else) destroy something that does not exist? "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:08 AM:

" And the Grapesox are gone, according to my recollection.

As for downtown, aside from a yellow sidewalk and some pretty trees lining School Street, what is it that draws anyone there? Could it be the variety of restaurants? Not much variety there either. So, what is it that makes Lodi so special in contrast to any other central valley community? I would really like to know. "

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Rhodie wrote on Dec 12, 2008 8:02 AM:

" "Do you really get that lovely small town feel from a Super Walmart Center? Walmart does not say charming hometown to me."

Of course I don't get it from Food 4 less, Target, Lowes, K-mart (talk about a dump), Big Lots, OSH, Pep Boys, Safeway, Office Depot, McDonalds, Carls Jr, S-mart, Penny's, Longs Drugs, Block Busters and on and on.

The ONLY part of Lodi that says small town is down town, Lodian and maybe the Grapesox. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 7:32 AM:

" Now for those out there who are so desirous of Lodi maintaining that "small town feeling," here's a bit of new for you: Lodi is not a "town." We are a city that in order to survive must behave as such. As more people move here to enjoy whatever it is that draws them, we have an obligation to create an environment that actually keeps them here. Services must be increased, thus taxes must be collected. Enough retail stores must be created in order to supply everyone with what they need and most of what they want. These are simple economic facts.

However, there has been much discussion about Lodi's "uniqueness." Will someone please inform me as to exactly what it is that sets Lodi apart from other communities in the valley - or anywhere else. Of course this is a great place to raise a family; it is relatively safe and secure. But what specifically is it about Lodi that so many believe is being destroyed by Wal-Mart (of whatever size) or any other business approved to open its doors here? I'm really at a loss as to what makes Lodi so special. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 6:59 AM:

" But even if Wal-Mart does become dominant with their Supercenter, unless they do something illegal or unethical to achieve that distinction, how can they possibly be blamed (as if blame is even the correct word to use)? A free market economy dictates that there will be winners and losers - that's inevitable. Other like businesses are fully aware of what Wal-Mart does to get customers in their doors; it is completely up to them to determine the best way to get those customers back. Moaning and whining about the "big, bad, evil" Wal-Mart does little to achieve success for those in such fear of them. Intelligent and creative thinking (and action, of course) is at the heart of any successful business. Wal-Mart has proven that over and over again.

I witnessed a lot of complaining the other night - and much of it from two members of our City Council. It has become quite silly actually. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 12, 2008 6:45 AM:

" Wal-Mart has been here for years and certainly has not become the "only show in town." Unless I am wrong, haven't the majority of businesses located on that one corner in Lodi literally thrived since they arrived? Sure, there have been a couple of fast-food companies that came and went - but I doubt anyone could point to Wal-Mart as the overly-dominant force there with the balance of stores barely holding their own.

As for our illustrious downtown area, had Wal-Mart not established itself in Lodi at all, that area of town would have died and been in need of rejuvenation. The Supercenter will have no impact on the problems along School Street and the few side streets in the "center" of town. Aside from the theater, a few restaurants, specialty stores, second-hand shops, and a Starbucks there isn't much else to draw folks (and certainly not any visitors) to that area. The main problem with the stores there is that they simply charge too much. In times of economic uncertainty (or at any other time for that matter), people are going to look for the best deal for their dollar. Simple economics. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:49 PM:

" T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:57 PM:

" Well, Whoa Nellie.... The old wal-mart building can be sub-divided into a Mall atmoshere, multiple small stores, Penny's can move into it, or buldoze it and make a row of nice small shops like the rest near-by! Please don't worry about the small stuff! "
------------

"Small stuff"? Oh geez. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:47 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 PM:
" How would WalMart survive if it killed the towns it moves into? "

Cogito: They become the only show in town. Besides, they don't "kill" the town so much as they deeply wound (disable) them and create a less healthy and thriving community. Do you really get that lovely small town feel from a Super Walmart Center? Walmart does not say charming hometown to me. What do you think, Galt man? "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:30 PM:

" Scrutiny, I can't know who everyone is in Lodi. I rarely need printing done anyway. If the guy owned a winery, we'd probably be exchanging Christmas cards. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:20 PM:

" O.K. Scrutiny. If the powers that be read these blogs to get a pulse on the community, you're right, they ARE screwed up! VOTE EM OUT! Because I'm rarely very serious here. I hope people aren't making decisions based on what I write. The whole prospect is hilarious! "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:15 PM:

" Cogito.... U do realize that Lodi`s mover and shakers read these thing religiously dont you????? There is always the urge to have information that is current. U r kidding yourself if you do not think that these blogs are relevant... U dont know who I am, but I can tell u first hand that many ideas incubate in the forum that is the blogs................ "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:15 PM:

" Hey, and I don't deny the fact that I may be disturbed. In fact, most of my family would agree with you. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:13 PM:

" Hey, until I Googled Phil, I only had a 50/50 chance of picking him out in a room with only 2 people in it! "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:11 PM:

" Hey I see people comment from a position of ignorance here all the time. In fact, it seems to be the norm. Why should I be treated any differently? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:11 PM:

" I actually find you quite entertaining Cogito. We agree a LOT more than we disagree...But if you actually find Phil to be competent............... well.....u are more disturbed than i realized. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:09 PM:

" Scrutiny, are you under the impression that these blogs influence Lodi's politics? That's the most HYSTERICAL thing I've read here for a while. AWWWW but you weren't trying to be funny......Were you? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:07 PM:

" And if u have to Google Phil`s name to find out who he is, u have NO business even commenting on things you obviously do not know about!!! What exactly do u admire "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:06 PM:

" I've worked in Lodi for 32 years, self-employed for 28. I find you people FASCINATING. And I enjoy the sport of pushing everyone's buttons. My wife and I are thinking about moving into the Bridgetown subdivision in the near future. But even then, although I'll be a Lodian, I'll still feel the same as now. I still won't care. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Cogito, you dont even live in Lodi yet u desire to influence its politics....... Why do u even care? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:58 PM:

" Cogito, you become an elected public official and I can damn well guarantee you that I will expose every weakness that you may have!!! This is not Illinois! "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:57 PM:

" Scrutiny, I don't live in Lodi. I had to Google his name to realize I'm not even sure if I've seen him before. But I really liked and admired Ted Katzakian. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 PM:

" How would WalMart survive if it killed the towns it moves into? WalMart needs shoppers with money. The towns they are in have the money to keep them in business. How do you explain that? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:54 PM:

" Cogito, I actually admire most of your posts, but you cannot tell me that you really think that Phil has what it takes to be an effective councilman. He`s a deer in the headlights... I mean... come on... you realy dont see that? "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:53 PM:

" Lodi Boy, I think WalMart is more like a garter snake. A lot of people have an irrational fear of it. Trust me, it can't hurt you. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 PM:

" Scrutiny, you mean if I run for city council people will find out about my inner weakness for Dennisons Chili on everything? OMG, I just spilled the beans didn't I. "

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lodi boy wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:50 PM:

" I know that some do like WalMart, but it's like this:
WalMart is almost like cancer. I begins small, but then spreads and spreads - eating healthy cells along the way.

Ultimately, it takes over and you can have it removed or die with it. Either way, once the body dies, so does the cancer.

There's no philosophical meaning behind that. It's just an analogy that came into my head. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:46 PM:

" Wow Scrutiny, you sure have a lot of hate for the guy. What's wrong, did he beat you up in school? Steal your lunch money? Girlfriend? I like the idea of a SWM too, and I'm not on the payroll either. I only go to WalMart about once a year. I may go to the new one all the time since I work on Kettleman Ln. anyway. Get some smoking deals! "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:40 PM:

" Believe me Safey, I have spoken with Phil on MANY occasions! I know who he is and what he can do... but once you run for public office you expose your most inner weaknesses to the public. He was urged to run by people that do NOT care for his ultimate legacy. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:29 PM:

" Still waiting for ANYBODY but the Wal-Mart rep. "Safey" to resond..... "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:27 PM:

" Every REAL Lodian knows that Phil Katzakian is a buffoon in councilman`s clothing. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:19 PM:

" Safey, it is obvious to all that you are a tool of the Wal-Mart machine. You are bought and paid for by Wal-Mart. I`m sure you are VERY well compensated. I wish you a Merry Christmas as well! "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:14 PM:

" Scrutiny - I believe the silence you are witnessing isn't anyone agreeing with you regarding Councilman Katzakian. It may very well be because you've become somewhat irrational with your disdain of him.

It's one thing disagreeing with our elected officials - I would advise any normal person to offer up any evidence or proof of the alleged deficiency suspected. But you have only spewed forth a couple of accusations and disrespectful names - hardly worthy of a response. Even what I have just written here should be considered a gift to you. Merry Christmas.

That being said, the lack of activity here could very well be that others have more pressing matters to tend to than to "blog." I was just getting ready to shut this machine down when I happened upon your incessent rant. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:08 PM:

" What? A half hour and no trash talk from my fellow bloggers? Can we all agree that Phil Katzakian is unfit for the job then? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:03 PM:

" Phil.... you are in WAAAAY over your head... everybody knows it. You`re a nice guy but you are not a leader................................. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 8:50 PM:

" You wanted the seat Phil and guess what, you got it. Welcome to the fishbowl! Either fish or cut bait my friend! "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 8:47 PM:

" God help us all if Phil Katzakian is the next mayor of Lodi. He is completely incompetent, "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Katzakian has NO business even BEING on the Lodi City Council!!! He can barely put two semi-coherent words together!!! "

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pgardener wrote on Dec 11, 2008 8:42 PM:

" Hey, here's an idea. Instead of having SWM pay a fee to downtown businesses, let's have them fund a wine tasting room so all the out of towners stocking up on groceries for their RV's can also have an opportunity to sample Lodi's wine. Maybe that would make the whole idea more appealing to Lodi's elitist's. "

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Trackback wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:48 PM:

" Ah, thanks LS. Being out of town, the only information I get on this is from the LNS. From what I gather, there are three pro-growth and two anti-growth members of the council. Unfortunately, aside from their respective positions, I have not heard a whole lot on their specific rationale for holding them as such. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:38 PM:

" Ra, yeah it's funny that all of a sudden it's an "image" problem. Where are these people when a place that has nude dancing and porn for sale open up? What about gambling with the card room? Or the "Day Spas" with the locked door? I guess everyone prefers these types of business over someone that sells cheap groceries. Says a lot about what they like. "

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ra wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:29 PM:

" I've read much of the anxiety about the "image" a SWM would bring to Lodi. Food4Less and Wal-Mart have already blighted the City with the countless spilled carts left by losers at the bus stop. Can we ticket these jerks? Our current image already stinks to out-of-towners traveling Hwy 12. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:29 PM:

" Robb "the drunks are in charge"? Yeah, thank God! "

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Robb wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:26 PM:

" I guess if I read this blog correctly, I am supposed to believe there is a big conspiracy in Lodi..

Come on guys, let the crap go, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, the ONLY thing we know for sure that is FACT, is that drunks are in charge... "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 7:13 PM:

" Hey, Heinitz has always been on the shady side. Ask anyone who has ever done business with him. But, I like the guy, and I've never done business with him except to buy some shirts. The Lodi First group said that they WOULD file a lawsuit if SWM passed, so it's a done deal. Based, I would guess, on the EIR. Which in this town stands for the "Elitist Impact Report". They're probably running through the streets right now screaming "THE HILLBILLIES ARE COMING....THE HILLBILLIES ARE COMING!!!!!! "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:41 PM:

" Okay, so now a commissioner owns property that may be impacted by the Supercenter. C'mon - let's get serious here. These rumors and innuendo do nothing to bring this matter to a reasonable conclusion. "If" Heinitz is compromised, I would have thought someone (anyone) would have revealed it by now. Part of due diligence to be performed on any project of this magnitude, governmental or private is to determine if anyone can unfairly profit by its success or failure.

But to simply throw the notion out on an inconsequential blog with no offer of proof to accompany is at best irresponsible and at worst libelous. The middle ground is just stupid. "

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sam wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:25 PM:

" Bobbyg, if Heinitz really owns that property he is a corrupt muther.

We should report him to the Grand Jury. He has no business even voting on any of this stuff.

IT IS ILLEGAL. "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:09 PM:

" Patricia???? Who are you to DECIDE what is BEST for everyone else in Lodi??? "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:05 PM:

" LodiSafeway ... I was thinking the same thing about scrutiny's comments. I see a pattern forming here. "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:03 PM:

" Scrutiny? Where do you get your thoughts? "

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Observer wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:02 PM:

" bobbyg, Heinitz has been one of the most vocal planning commissioners opposed to Walmart and hasn't owned that property for quite a few years. "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 6:01 PM:

" T&C perhaps you need to do some price shopping and not believe the walmart gossip. They do not have the cheapest prices on food. Infact there is little mark up in food. Most stores make their money by selling shelf space. Yes that is right... if you want to sell your product at the grocery store you have to lease the shelf that it will go on. When I worked for a restaurant Coke came in and gave us 100K to sell their product for 5 years. This is how the Grocery Business works too... they have to rent the shelf space then they have to guaranty that consumers will purchase so much of that product. "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:59 PM:

" Oh IO forgot, we could convert it into a "Deportation Ice Center if America were to "Enforce" the thousands of illegals, in this county, but please breathe easy everyone, that won't happen! "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:57 PM:

" Well, Whoa Nellie.... The old wal-mart building can be sub-divided into a Mall atmoshere, multiple small stores, Penny's can move into it, or buldoze it and make a row of nice small shops like the rest near-by! Please don't worry about the small stuff! "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:56 PM:

" One more note... Heinitz owns the property just to the south of the proposed wal mart site (where there are about 6-8 houses). He actually stands to gain value to his property depending on how this votes out. He should be disclosing this but that property might be zoned in the "County". Any way you look at it he is crooked and always has been.

When the city said no more building alley houses on the east side he would get a variance from... you guessed it, his fellow commisioners. He built more alley houses than anyone else when there was a moritorium on building them. Wake up Lodi! "

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T & C wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:54 PM:

" Boo Hoo to Food-4-Less, Raleys, safeway and S-Mart! Be competitive and lower your prices and you can still have PROFIT! Let shoppers, Falilies who are struggling to keep their homes and families together, and let them have a CHOICE of where to get the most groceries for their dollars! Stop your whining! Who promised Union workers a gravy train lifestyle at the expense of all who are trying to make ends meet? "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:49 PM:

" When this property was annexed into the city (1985ish) by then mayor Snider, he promised that it would not be big box style retail that it would be a regional mall. This is how he got it through the city then. I think we should hold him to it. We dont need more vast asphalt jungles.

It wont increase income from tax dollars
1) grocery has no tax

2) all it will do is take away from current business dollars somewhere else in Lodi and transfer those dollars to a possibly lower price at Walmart which in fact = lower tax revenues.

I work in the hospitality industry and do not work for a grocery store and I am not a union worker. I just dont like that they dont take care of their property now and they wont take care of a bigger property. "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:41 PM:

" First its not a new idea, many counties and/or cities currently require a higher minimum wage and also require employers of a certain size to pay for health benefits. I would bet that most of the companies with that large of an EE base already offer some sort of health benefits, Banks, Manufactures,etc... wanna bet? If these big businesses want to move into Lodi and absorb jobs they should want to be good employers, right? Maybe I choose the wrong word using "prevailing wage"... I should have said "Living wage".

I think it would work. I gives back to the community and the employees. "

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Patricia wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:40 PM:

" Not over 'til it's over. NO on SWM! We have a Wal-Mart that is enough. Think! Council! Members! Think LODI! Don't let us down. Get quality in there. The environmental impact will be significant,yes. So if we're going to do it, get a quality revernue maker in there to do the job. There are other options besides Wal-Mart! Thanks Joanne and Susan, you're the only ones with any common sense! "

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Patricia wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:32 PM:

" jramagic wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM:

" HEY SUPER!
Now install on fixed safety divider on Hiway 12 and I'll drive over from Isleton
and shop in Lodi every week! Probably a lot of others out on this end will, too!
But not till that deathtrap "highway" is made safe. until then, no Lovely Lodi for me...

Yeah well, FLASH! The road is dangerous because of irresponsible drivers, not because of highway 12. Safefty dividers are not going to stop stupid and careless drivers! "

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Whoa Nellie! wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:16 PM:

" First, all the talk of transforming the Wal Mart building into some sort of bowling alley "slash" batting cages "slash" whatever wont work. Notice all of the 6x6 metal posts in the building? It is not structurally built to allow wide open spaces. Some isles you can barely squeeze a cart past the shelves and the post.

Second, BOBBYG- you idea would only KILL more Lodi jobs. To pay for that health insurance many companies would have to layoff employees. Win-Lose is not acceptable. AND, I bet $1 that if that was the case of prevailing wages and mandatory health insurance big bad SWM would back out of town faster than you can say "Snake Oil Salesman." "

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mp wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:12 PM:

" girard 74 must now be lodisafeway! "

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jramagic wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM:

" HEY SUPER!
Now install on fixed safety divider on Hiway 12 and I'll drive over from Isleton
and shop in Lodi every week! Probably a lot of others out on this end will, too!
But not till that deathtrap "highway" is made safe. until then, no Lovely Lodi for me... "

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Acampo_Mom wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:37 PM:

" bobbyg...

That's a nice idea...but if Lodi did that, all the big businesses would move out of Lodi, then even more local jobs would be lost. Walmart should just take it upon themselves to be a fair(er) employer and start paying a living wage, and maybe at least try to negotiate a group discount on the health insurance (I don't know if/what they are currently offered). "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:32 PM:

" Well, as long as they pay the "minimum wage," I would think any law to require them to pay more would be struck down rather quickly.

Also, the notion of a "prevailing wage" is subjective at best; how would it be accurately (and fairly) determined? "

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JD wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:30 PM:

" You know, I'm cautiously pro-Wal-Mart, but it looks pretty bad when the City Council overrules a five-to-one decision of the Planning Commission. It sounds like there were some legitimate concerns with the EIR, and it's too bad that legitimate concerns were swept under the rug.

Of course, it didn't help that the EIR became an excuse for certain Lodi business interests to attempt to stifle competition . . . "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:10 PM:

" I do have a thought though, many people complain that Walmart doesnt pay its employees enough or that it doesnt offer health benefits to enough employees...

What if we made a local law which stated that all business with over 150 full times employees must pay a prevailing wage of said position and supply ample health benefits for all the employees. Also for every two part time employees (no matter how many hours the ee works) they count as one full time employee. This is not only for Walmart but for all businesses. Lets make our entire community better! "

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bobbyg wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:03 PM:

" While a stike zone type of thing would be great Lodi has a history of not supporting these types of things. Whether is was Chuck E Cheese, the bowling alley, the Skating rink or other types of similar establishments. Lodi just doesnt care about its youth, it seems like in Lodi that children should neither be seen or heard. "

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peppier2 wrote on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM:

" lodisafeway--Yes, I knew how you meant about the PHD's. It's that Scrutiny that I was talking to about calling people almost derelects. Sorry about not making myself clear. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 3:25 PM:

" peppier2 - My comment regarding Ph.D's was meant to be taken very sarcastically. I apologize if the sentiment did not come through as intended. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Scrutiny - hmm, "retard?" Is that verified? Is he truly mentally disabled? Is this simply your way of disagreeing with him? You see, comments like yours are what make forums such as this one a little messy from time to time. But I suppose you have your right to voice your opinion, no matter how silly or outrageous it might be. "

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peppier2 wrote on Dec 11, 2008 2:52 PM:

" The person that talks about derelicts is very immature. Shame on you to look down on people and think you are big stuff. Not everyone with a PHD is smart in all fields. How many PHD's do you know? "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 2:41 PM:

" Trackback - I think each one of the City Council Members (except for Katzakian who was interestingly quiet) was quite clear in their intentions prior to voting. "

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Trackback wrote on Dec 11, 2008 2:38 PM:

" It would be interesting if the council members wrote opinions a la the Courts on why they voted the way they did. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 2:26 PM:

" See you in about 2 1/2 years Safey!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 2:03 PM:

" As far as the EIR is concerned the meeting may not have been such a waste of time. This matter had to have been brought to a vote in order for it to be returned to the court. Now, depending upon whether or not the smarmy attorneys for or against this issue are successful in their arguments, it just may be able to move on to the next step.

Surely there will be a number of lawsuits filed as this moves forward, but I am hopeful that the frivolous nature of the majority of them will be identified and summarily dismissed so as to allow the process to continue as it should. These things do take time, but for some unbelievable reason this particular one has gotten nearly out of control. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 PM:

" Yes! By all means investigate just three of our five City Council members for impropriety. Certainly they must have done "something" wrong. Just how transparent would that be- simply because they voted for something that others are against they should be suspected of criminal behavior. So much for the attitude of a "loveable" Lodi. It's just too bad that people who do not win are so bent on blaming someone for the defeat and wishing them harm. "

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midtowner wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:49 PM:

" stuck: It doesn't appear that your that "stuck" after all! Good times a Strike Zone! "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM:

" U guys do realize that this whole meeting was a complete waste of time don`t you? It`s going back to court and we`ll do this whole drama all over again in 2 or 3 more years. It wont end for quite some time Im afaid. "

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Shelby wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:38 PM:

" What will happen to the Old building. will wal-mart find some other business to take it over, Or will it become a big eye sore to Lodi. "

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stucknlodi wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 PM:

" the strike zone in Manteca is owned by the Raymus Family, developers in Manteca. I think someone else manages it now. Maybe people should talk to the Browman Group to have them build and manage a strike zone. I know my family would go, we go to the one in Manteca. "

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dot dot dot wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:13 PM:

" ra: Most groceries are NOT taxed = little added revenue. "

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midtowner wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM:

" Safeway: check out the Strike Zone in Manteca, it is on Yosemite Ave. 1/4 mile west of Hwy 99. You will enjoy it. It is well maintained and monitored and, yes, it has disco lights after 9:00 pm on weekends. "

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wtf wrote on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM:

" The more I think about it, loadeye, the more your suggestions made on the other blog make sense. Perhaps, given the recent scandal at Delta regarding Ms. Serna, the three ayemegoes should be audited...open their personal financial records to make sure there are no pay offs, kick backs, or any other type of financial shenanigans that helped to push this thing through. Especially since they virtually made the Planning Commission unnecessary by over-riding their recommendation. "

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cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM:

" Scrutiny, what do you consider a "borderline derelict"? Domestic car, cotton clothing, $15.00 haircut, noticable lack of any plastic surgery on those over 40? Do you have any problems being an elitist in a small farming community? How did you wind up living around so many common people? "

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cogito wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 PM:

" Whoanellie, if one were to spend an hour in the Stockton Target on Pacific Ave. nobody would want one of those either. Yet, everyone in Lodi seemsa to be in love with Target. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM:

" essayjay - do you wish to say "no" to the sprawl that you believe has taken root in Lodi, or just to the construction of a Wal-Mart Supercenter? There is a distinction and I am curious as to where you (and perhaps others) stand. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 PM:

" I wonder why it must be "weird" that people in support of this project are employees of Wal-Mart and/or disabled. Their employees have every right to voice their opinion about this matter as do people who are handicapped.

Nevertheless, I don't believe that those who actually spoke at the meeting are a definitive representation of those who desire to see Wal-Mart expand; people from all walks of life shop at Wal-Mart. By attempting to view those who spoke last night as undesirable or weird reveals more about those who voice that opinion than of those who actually took the time to step up to the microphone and speak to the City Council. "

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essayjay wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Food4Less on one corner, Safeway on another, Raley's up the Street, and you have mini-Penny's and a closed down Mervyn's on the same Street with Marshall's across the Street and Ross down the Street. So here we put in a WalMart supercenter because of pressure from the big guy's hoping to squeeze more tax dollars out of the community at the expense of other businesses. Not a good decision. In the meantime urban sprawl continues. Bob Johnson said this corner was designated for commercial zoning 16 years ago. Well Bob? Rezone it!! Reverse the sprawl. Show some spine. In few more generations we will all be eating food grown in China! We won't be just buying cheap goods from WalMart made in China, ther'll be nothing grown here anymore! It's time to say no! "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM:

" Thanks midtowner. I think a bowling alley has always been a mainstay for American towns. Unfortunately, in recent years they too have attracted a certain element that might not be conducive to Lodi; younger kids with little or no money to spend tend to hang out at these run-down alleys with too much time (and little supervision) on their hands. This might be the reason why the one on Cherokee Lane was replaced by San Miguel.

However, I have also seen facilities such as the one you describe on television and elsewhere. If something like that would draw sufficient numbers of customers AND if it is continuously maintained and monitored it just might bring some fun to Lodi. "

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patton1 wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM:

" Did anybody notice that it seems like every person who supported WalMArt was disabled or was an employee? Weird. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 PM:

" I think Scrutiny by your comments that you have nearly cornered the market on "ignorance." But this is what I've come to expect from people on the losing side of any issue, i.e., Wal-Mart; Proposition 8. "

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midtowner wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM:

" Safeway: Strike Zone is bowling alley with about 30 lanes, a video arcade, batting cages, sanck bar, restaurant with a boxing ring. My family and I have been many times and have always had a good time. It is a family oriented business which caters to birthdays and general celebrations. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 PM:

" But exactly what is a "borderline derelict?" How does one know if they have or have not crossed the border? And what difference does it make? "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM:

" Scrutiny - yes I noticed that. And those opposing it were all verified college graduates with Ph.D's. What a contrast!! "

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ra wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM:

" I would argue that we will see more tax revenues with a super walmart. If I can't find something at Target or Wal-Mart, I end up purchasing it online and usually from a tax-free source. If the offerings are expanded to match the "Big City", I will most likely buy local first and online second, hence leaving more tax dollars in Lodi. We already have a Wal-Mart, so the real issue is expanded selection and the grocery. I recommend ALL read babnick's comment in the other thread regarding the large supermarkets' lack of concern when they put local florists, bakeries, and pharmacies out of business. This is a simple dose of you get what you give. It's a free-market...shut up and compete. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM:

" Did anybody else notice that most of the people who spoke in favor of the SC last night were borderline derelicts? That new SC will become a breeding ground for ignorance and sloth. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM:

" midtowner - briefly describe a Strike Zone. I'm interested. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM:

" That corner has been standing vacant for as long as I can remember. Now that someone actually wants to do something with it to add to the value of this City, everyone seems to have a solution other than a Wal-Mart Supercenter.

Amusingly, one such lady approached the dais last night and offered her concern that so much farmland is being destroyed for the sake of urban sprawl (paraphrased). She even asked the Council to look nearly 100 years into the future to determine just what this Supercenter would do in causing people to go hungry. Now, it was hard for me to contain myself, but just how ridiculous is that? I've never seen a crop grow at that corner in nearly 20 years; and now someone is concerned about what Wal-Mart's impact there will be on world hunger 100 miles down the road? That Supercenter, and everything with it, will be long gone in 50 years, let alone 100. The histrionics are beginning to get out of control. "

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midtowner wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 PM:

" A Stike Zone would be perfect for the old WalMart bldg. If you are unfamiliar with Strize Zone, there is one in Manteca which is continually busy and is private enterprise. I wish I had the resources to open one, because it would be successful. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 PM:

" Well, oooph, I simply don't want to drive ten miles to the Supercenter in Stockton (that's actually 20 miles because I would need to drive back home). You see, this doesn't come down to just what this community "needs," it also has to take into consideration what we "want."

I also don't enjoy shopping at Food-4-Less; it is nothing more than a warehouse that requires that I pack my own groceries in their bags. You see, I don't only want value for my buck, I want a least a modicum of service to go along with it. These Supercenters are built very well and if maintained by its management do become assets to their communities.

Now, do I want Food-4-Less to fail? Of course not. Those who wish to shop there should have the opportunity to do so; just as I should have the opportunity to spend my money where I want. "

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pgardener wrote on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 PM:

" It is my understanding that part of the deal was Walmart had to find a tenant for the old store or tear it down. It would not be left vacant. They could not move until one or the other was decided on. I believe in past articles in LNS Walmart had stated they had found a tenant for 90% of the old store. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:55 AM:

" An indoor sports facility would be nice, but I don't think the current Wal-Mart space would be an acceptable site. That entire area should be reserved for retail businesses. One of the issues raised at the meeting last night was empty parking lots resulting from vacated buildings. When not in use, a sports facility such as the one suggested here would leave the area virtually silent - not conducive to attracting customers to the other, smaller businesses surrounding it.

No, the new tenant will have to be vetted very carefully. Their success will be nearly as important as the Supercenter's. If one cannot be found, the building should be demolished. "

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El Rushbo wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Well the Three Stooges have struck agian! Actually the similarities between Moe, Larry and Curly, and Hansen, Bob and Phil are astonishing! I mean Hansen is obviously Moe cause he`s the brains, Bob and Curly could have been twins separated at birth, and the mental abilities of Larry and Phil are so similar it`s scary! "

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oooph wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Safeway, actually the checks come in auto-deposit now. (I was making a point about them needing public assistance when they loose their jobs.) Anyway, it's not fear mongering, it's reality. Wal-Mart will will replace good paying jobs with much lower paying jobs. I just don't get it. We already have a Wal-Mart. Why the hell do we need a new one on steriods? If you must save 2% on grocerys, drive 10 miles to Stockton's Wal-Mart or just shop at Food 4 less for God's sakes. Let's do something else on that corner that we can be proud of and won't ruin our existing jobs... "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:41 AM:

" oooph - Just so you know, unemployment checks are mailed to the recipients. There is no need to drive to Stockton or anywhere else to pick them up.

But seriously, talk like this isn't based on any facts; only fear. "

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oooph wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Jay, while I would also love the indoor sports facility, I bet the buisness owners in that complex would rather not loose their anchor. No retail anchor will equal empty storefronts. Bowman knows it but he wants to blow sunshine up the CC's a#@ because he wants his supercenter. Question for you; who pays the bills for the indoor sports center? It won't be the city. Those pockets are empty. If it's a private buisness it's not going to be cheap to use... Blow up the whole corner and build something that works! It's a blight now with an empty anchor. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Whoa Nellie! Yes, there was discussion regarding the Stockton Supercenter as well as a number of other such stores in Northern California. Mayor Hansen discussed the results of his unscientific survey of a number of them that he took over the past weekend. Virtually all of them had at least two or more other grocery stores within close proximity and open for business. In fact, one Safeway he said had its parking lot full.

As far as Mervyn's is concerned, does anyone suggest that the proposed Supercenter is at the heart of that corporation's demise? If so, then that is extremely disingenuous. Businesses succeed and businesses fail- there is no avoiding that fact. But this uncontrollable fear of one company (that has done so much good for our community) is getting very tiresome. People are looking for guarantees that one company will produce (or fail to allow) things that are impossible to foretell. This isn't about other stores closing or an empty building- it is about an innate hatred for Wal-Mart because of its ability to succeed. No matter what they do, they will be vilified. What a shame people are so afraid. "

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pgardener wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM:

" Don't worry about Food 4 Less, they're covering their bases and probably preparing to close the Lodi store. The Stockton Record reported on 12/10 that the construction of an upscale grocery store "sort of like an Angloized version" of Rancho San Miguel had been approved by the Stockton City Council. This store will be built at 8 mile & Davis Rd. This store will be built by the owners of Food 4 Less/Rancho San Miguel. The approved store will be larger than a Food 4 Less. Maybe they'll call it Super Food 4 Less. This is all about competition. Food 4 Less needs a bigger, better store just like Wal Mart. Read between the lines. Food 4 Less is already making plans to leave Lodi. The writing is on the walls. "

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jay dubb wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:33 AM:

" I would love nothing more than to see the vacated Wal Mart used as a fabulous indoor sports facility to support our community. You could have an indoor soccer field with leagues running 7 days a week. Leagues for both adults and children. You could have training areas for soccer, softball, basketball, full batting cages, training facilities, etc. Volleyball and basketball leagues. I would think it would be filled immediately with tons of families utilizing the facility. I know my family and especially my kids would love to have a place like that to go to. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:28 AM:

" Whoa Nellie! - Well, Browman (the developer for the current center at that particular corner as well as the proposed Supercenter) purchased the present Wal-Mart not too long ago. During the meeting last night he was quite convincing regarding his abilities to not only manage these types of shopping plazas, but to keep vacancies to a remarkable minimum.

So, unless he was lying about the vacancy rate of his current projects (which will not be too difficult to determine), I don't foresee a big problem in finding a tenant for the building. Regardless, one condition for the Supercenter being built has been that the current Wal-Mart must have a tenant signed on even before construction begins.

However, if the worst happens and there is no suitable tenant available, razing the building would be the final solution. Therefore, having the current Wal-Mart contribute to any sort of "urban decay" or "blight" seems highly unlikely.

Still, it appears to me that people are expecting so much more of Wal-Mart than any other business desiring to extend its success in Lodi. And still they wish to build. That is amazing to me. "

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oooph wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:25 AM:

" Safeway, what will change is now you will not only have an empty shell at Mervynn's but you will also have an empty shell at the current Wal-Mart followed soon thereafter by empty store fronts next door. We will likely get another empty shell across the street at Safeway to boot! And all those Wal-Mart employees will be spending their $9 an hour checks while the people that were making $12-15 an hour at Safeway are commuting to unemployment office in Stockton to pick up their checks. Our wonderful free market system at work!Can't wait. Build it quick! "

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Whoa Nellie! wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:22 AM:

" Safeway- go hangout at the SWM in Stockton for an hour. Spend some time in the parking lot, then go inside and browse the entire store.

Go home. Look in mirror and ask yourself, "Do I really want that mess in my town?" "

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Whoa Nellie! wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:16 AM:

" I believe that Rancho San Miquel has nothing to worry about. Alot of their customers do not have cars and walk to RSM. I doubt they will take Grapevine to SWM.

Again, I'm more worried about what becomes of the current WM building and the surrounding businesses. I foresee an empty building, failing small businesses, and a giant eyesore. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:13 AM:

" So let's take a look at Lodi. Exactly what is it that we want people to see as they arrive here? Why do we want them to come here at all? What do we really have to offer that is absent from other like communities within 50 miles? We have a number of wineries and a man-made lake; hardly unique.

I'm not attempting to be disparaging of Lodi, I am simply trying to be realistic and honest. I've lived here for nearly 20 years and consider this my home. I will probably die here. But it isn't because Lodi offers anything more to me that I can't find virtually anywhere else in California. Much of my family is here and I do enjoy the peaceful environment that a city of this size provides.

Will the construction of a Wal-Mart Supercenter change what already exists? Will people move away in droves because of this so-called "monstrosity?" If they do, then they are free to go. But I suspect that what we will get from this new business will be much of what we already have- a place to shop and pay lower prices. Another reason to stay. "

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LodiSafeway wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 AM:

" Having sat through the entire City Council meeting last night, one issue was repeated a number of times by not only those against a Supercenter but by two members of the Council itself. The question of what do we want people to encounter upon entering our city on Highway 12 from the west was raised. Tied to that was considerable ballyhoo over Lodi losing its uniqueness if this store is permitted to be built.

First, what does anyone see now as they arrive at the corner of Lower Sacramento Road and Kettleman Lane? From my perspective I see nothing unique or different from virtually any other valley community. The sketches of the proposed Supercenter will not change that profile at all. Moreover, exactly what is it that people think makes Lodi so "unique?" A comparison was made during the meeting between Las Vegas and Carmel; what makes them different was nothing more than "planning." Nonsense! An ocean, coastline and a host of other natural phenomena creates the ambiance of Carmel. Yet Las Vegas is unique in and of itself because of what man was able to accomplish with nothing more than a desert and imagination.(Cont.) "

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SportsGuru wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:52 AM:

" .
If Food 4 Less and its Rancho San Miguel subsidiary aren't willing to COMPETE for people's business, then what does that tell you?

It says that they ALREADY have a monopoly on a segment of their business - and don't want Walmart to interrupt that monopoly.

So that makes them guilty of the very same practice that some criticize Walmart for. "

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midtowner wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:14 AM:

" Finally! I've heard rumors that Food4Less and San Miguels will not renew their leases if WallMart is built..well boohoo to you. This is America, where free enterprise reigns supreme. All those businesses who THINK that this will affect them need to learn how to compete, because you can! "

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SportsGuru wrote on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM:

" .
I wonder if they will sell discount sporting goods.... "

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