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The following stories have received the most reader comments during the last 7 days.
- The country's mess is our fault (170)
- Obama is not a moderate (130)
- Sarah Palin's book hits the shelves: Locals react (73)
- Lodi City Council plans to cap number of taco trucks at 22 (50)
- Public health care is a Christian option (49)
- The haves should help the have-nots (30)
- Tokay in, traveling to unbeaten No. 3 Grant for football playoffs (25)
- Government-run health care is a bad idea (22)
- Young woman fatally shot at Acampo home (17)
- Sierra Adventure store to close after four years in Downtown Lodi (16)
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Automakers need a simple car
Monday, December 1, 2008 6:39 AM PST
It is the U.S. automakers' time to listen. Just give us a "people's car."
Another company did it in the past, so it can be done. Use a body style that is easy to build, a 4-cylinder electric/fuel engine that will cruise at 65 mph, a standard transmission, two doors with a back seat, am/fm radio with two speakers, heater and a/c with basic controls, rubber mats on the floor, durable interior and a popular inexpensive tire size.
Its only purpose is to get us from point A to point B. We do not need a V8 engine, 12 speakers, DVD, GPS, map screens, Sirius radio, climate control, heated seats, plush carpet, leather steering wheel, wood-grain trim and all the other accessories. All we need is a simple, inexpensive driving machine — a "people's" car.
I don't think you need the government's help this time; you need to listen and make do like the rest of us have to.
Phil Hamilton
Lodi
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SportsGuru wrote on Dec 8, 2008 10:29 AM:
TO WCPATTY
The bottom line is that the US Auto Workers for Japanese companies make around $27 per hour (on the high side).
With all the union benefits, pension, and union unemployment checks .. UAW workers make around $70 per hour.
Look on the web, there is info everywhere on this including the NYT article I cited below.
Of course, the UAW is attacking the NYT article as "false" (they can't sit by and let that kind of information go unchallenged) "
SportsGuru wrote on Dec 8, 2008 10:26 AM:
Interestingly enough, in doing my research I am finding that the UAW has not been successful in unionizing the Japanese car makers US plants primarily because (after bonuses are paid for performance) the compensation package is as good, if not better than GM.
And it is a PERFORMANCE BASED compensation package. Some workers earn $6,000 or more a year in bonuses for putting out a quality product.
Union membership in the UAW has dropped by almost 50%, and many UAW members are happy to move to the Japanese auto manufacturer's plants because the working environment is better. "
SportsGuru wrote on Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM:
TO WCPATTY
From the NY Times:
"G.M. currently employs about 8,000 people who actually dont come to work. Those who do go to work are paid about $10 to $20 an hour more than people who do the same job building cars in the United States for foreign makers like Toyota. At G.M., as of 2007, the average worker was paid about $70 an hour, including health care and pension costs."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/business/economy/18sorkin.html?fta=y&pagewanted=all
ANOTHER REASON WHY US AUTOMAKERS STRUGGLE:
"For more than two decades, many autoworkers who lose their jobs have been able to enjoy one of the best unemployment benefits in the nation: receiving nearly full paychecks without even leaving home."
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-Some-Idled-Autoworkers-Get-Full-Pay.aspx?menuid=248 "
mike wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:08 PM:
real facts wrote on Dec 5, 2008 1:03 PM:
figures
anyway, my new nickname is actually hwsnbnbuwbychy. make sure you get it right "
real facts wrote on Dec 5, 2008 12:58 PM:
since they never seem to learn, you see the resultant posts below
but it's interesting that these people can say whatever THEY want, yet you seem to only challenge me when i do.....would you like to explain why that is? "
Lodian wrote on Dec 5, 2008 9:32 AM:
M u S t
R e S i S t
feeding the troll (aka "hwsnbn"!
.................. "
mainframe wrote on Dec 5, 2008 1:38 AM:
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:00 PM:
" WCPatty: See what I mean? ").
maybe you can point WCpatty in the direction of billy rubins post where he lied that audi terrorized billy's car because billy was gay, and then you all can discuss the progress you all are making in re-assuring society that homosexuality is "normal", as well as integrity-trading liberalCHISM
maybe you can discuss with her the several 'ailments' YOU suffer from in these blogs as well?
if your feeling up to the task, maybe you can also fill her in on why you have now resorted to spraying the blogs with your lies about me being the reason the blogs have been squelched?
there is so much you need to fill her in on, so go ahead, i will step back for a moment while you do.... "
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:52 PM:
gee, maybe we can be greatful that he "only" lied about you (audi) smashing his car's mirrors, rather than his past lies of "me having sex with my own daughter", or "Christians cruising around galt and lodi looking to shoot queers", or "cruising the gay young man for sex", etc.
it looks like he was being "nice" to us (lol).
billy is NOT a "victim", that's for sure, but i ALWAYS am reminded that while billy spews his lies without conscience in these blogs on his way to selling the notion that homosexuality is "normal", that voter called billy "sane", sam said billy was "a wonderful man" and lodian high fives EVERYTHING billy says and does
pretty conclusive on what i like to call the "integrity trading block" of life "
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 2:09 PM:
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 1:11 PM:
you know, i always seem to admire people in life (puke) that HAVE to lie about others while attempting to sell to the world their choices are "just", that they are not "victims" in their life of anything.
billy, you are a one man wrecking crew in the war on selling homosexuality as "normal", so you can add that to your fast growing "resume" "
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 12:53 PM:
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 12:48 PM:
sure billy, we all know we can count on nothing but the truth coming from you, which is why i included your accounting of your life's "work" being a male model, air traffic controller, a dentist and all the other "truthful" revelations about your life
my little blurb was aimed at demonstrating why your positions in life cannot be trusted, because you people fade in and out of truth without conscience, thus my timely recollection of what you HAD said about your car in the past.
realistically, i could care less if your car was pink with a feather boa hanging from the rear view mirror "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 4, 2008 12:47 PM:
Hey, Reverend Fruitcake! Why don't you ask God to lead you to the Honda? I told you before it sits in plain view with its bumper clearly visible from the street.
Maybe you and Audi can tag-team it and take turns beating it with a bat? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 4, 2008 12:45 PM:
After you idiotically claimed that basic autos cannot be sold because they have no market, I proved you wrong using the most basic and the most successful car as an example. I've never had a bug and don't care who buys them. You said a stupid thing; it's just that simple.
As to the rainbow stickers, it's odd you would wonder "how that works" for me. The old Honda bears the scars and obscenities scratched it it that you would expect - or have probably done. It had had four mirrors broken off - again probably by you.
And no, I have no plans to remove the stickers. That would be admitting haters like you won. After all, it's just a car and if it lets you get your rocks off beating on it instead of a gay kid, go for it. It's insured. "
real facts wrote on Dec 4, 2008 12:37 PM:
" WCPatty: It gets worse than that, WCPatty. He keeps files on everyone here. ").
all i have is an excellant memory, and the aBILLYity to make sure you people own your stuff with that memory
bummer for you huh, considering YOU told everyone in these blogs the street you live on.
are you going to blame that on me too?
laughing "
Lodian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:29 AM:
Lodian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:25 AM:
WCPatty wrote on Dec 4, 2008 9:05 AM:
WCPatty wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:58 AM:
WCPatty wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:55 AM:
My question should have been directed at Sportsguru.
Sportsguru: Where are you getting your info that AUW make twice as much as the foreign car workers? "
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:44 AM:
The gaping hole in Mr. B Rubin's disjointed argument in defense of the VW bug, is the production numbers. VW has never lead the U.S. market in sales. Not even close. It's never been the car of choice for U.S. consumers.
Perhaps Mr. Hamilton can take Rubin's advice and buy and VW bug, it would certainly fit his criteria.
As a tip, if you find a nice Bug at a good price but it appears to have too many frills, buy it and then remove the unwanted items if that would make you feel better about the car. As far as adding multiple rainbow stickers, you'll have to ask Rubin how that's working for him. "
WCPatty wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:47 AM:
Where are you getting this information? According to the Center of Automotive Research, one Toyota plant actually exceeded domestic car wages at $30/hour vs. UAW's $28/hr. Nisson and Honda is close behind. Foreign car companies pay wages and benefits comparative to UAW to discourage unionization. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:00 AM:
After briefly driving a putrid black ranger pickup in college, I know I'll never have another black vehicle. You'd have to be nuts to own a black car in the valley.
It's a good thing the Honda still runs like new; with the economy this sour I'll probably be driving it another 9 years. "
real facts wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:27 PM:
I have an older silver Honda with about 4 thousand rainbow stickers - and also now about half that number of Obama '08 stickers - on it. ").
well then, you must be an incredible automobile painter in your spare time of being a male model, a dentist, an air traffic controller and a drag queen, because 1 1/2years ago you said your honda was black with rainbow stickers
just how did you paint around all those stickers? LOL "
SportsGuru wrote on Dec 3, 2008 5:06 PM:
I heard an interesting commentary on the US Automakers the other day. Apparently they have more or less given up on making cars that can compete with the Japanese and have instead focused on creating loopholes in US law for building SUV's that don't have to meet fuel economy standards.
By doing this, they created a market for themselves that they could corner... and now they are paying the price now that the market has collapsed for SUV's and other non-fuel-efficient cars.
I say let them go under, re-structure (and throw out the unions), so that they can be profitable again.
Currently, US car makers pay TWICE AS MUCH to assembly line workers as Nissan / Toyota / Honda pay US workers to assemble their cars here in the US.
The unions are KILLING THIS COUNTRY'S ABILITY TO COMPETE! "
SportsGuru wrote on Dec 3, 2008 5:03 PM:
To Phil,
You may not NEED a V8 engine, 12 speakers, DVD, GPS, map screens, Sirius radio, climate control, heated seats, plush carpet, leather steering wheel, wood-grain trim and all the other accessories.... but that is what most people WANT.
Owning a car is no longer a practical matter, it is a matter of STATUS! "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:49 PM:
You're still claiming the VW Beetle, the most popular autombile in the history of the world, was a failure with no "appeal to the masses" and trying to back it up by saying luxury car shoppers wouldn't buy one.
That argument, though, is one you are having inside your own head. It's not what Hamilton said and it's not what I said. I am gladdened you are proud that the entire US auto industry produced more coupes, sedans, vans, wagons and trucks than a foreign manufacturer's production of a single model.
If American makers are as successful with their lines as you seem to believe, why then are they bankrupt while the makers of econo-boxes are not?
Enjoy your nonsense rant that broke US makers are the greatest while you drive your imported car. "
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:56 AM:
P.S. I did not say "no one wanted them", as you claim with your non applicable absolutes. "
wtf wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:38 AM:
The US automakers may be the worst of the lot, so far.
Years of incompetence and now manoeuvring in the halls of Congress for a massive bailout.
Management prefers to hold onto private corporate jets rather than push for fuel efficiency standards to make their products more competitive.
Union members would rather hold onto their gold-plated pensions for life than to save their companies.
Why should taxpayers help those who have so frequently refused to accept responsibility themselves?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7754768.stm "
wtf wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:18 PM:
Leonard please don't put words in my mouth. I did not say Ron Paul was a prophet; I **did** say he brought up the economy during the debates and was ridiculed by the same people you were ridiculing in your post of December 1 at 10:18 AM who were saying the economy was doing just fine.
Ron Paul happened to mention the elephant in the living room. The crowd you seem to be having fun with now; made fun of him then. It seems to me you're arguing for the sake of argument and I will leave you to it.
Again, thank you WCPatty! It's always nice when people actually check out what Ron Paul has to say. "
Lodian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 4:57 PM:
" Audi500(0), as a former 1985 Audi5000 owner, let me tell you that it was a piece of crap."
--------------
LOL! "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 2, 2008 3:15 PM:
You're still trying to say the VW Beetle didn't appeal to the masses? Is it your position they sold about 40 million of them because nobody wanted one? You're the Real Facts of the car world who wouldn't know the truth if it ran over you in a cross walk.
I understood what Hamilton was saying and that his letter was directed toward US auto makers. But it was Audi who started talking about foreign cars, wasn't it?. Remember now?
And no, I don't have a VW. I have an older silver Honda with about 4 thousand rainbow stickers - and also now about half that number of Obama '08 stickers - on it. "
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 1:47 PM:
As for the Bug, its success was its narrow appeal to the younger crowd as it was cheap to own and drive. It was a bottom-of-the-barrel car that did not appeal to the masses.
Volkswagen has severely cut the production of the new Beetle the last number of years due to lagging sales.
Sorry Billy if you happen to drive a V-Dub, it's nothing personal. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:41 PM:
To say the VW Beetle had a "narrow niche" is laughable. You must be nine years old and are speaking only from your life's experience. Perhaps you missed my post or didn't believe it that the Beetle broke every auto production record on earth. The entire planet is covered in VW Beetles from a 50 year production run: to which you say they had a "narrow niche".
The New Bug has been selling for ten years and is going strong; hardly, as you phrased it, "short lived".
If you are able to pry open one of your clamped-shut eyes, maybe (maybe) you would see the roads are filled with new "proven bad idea" cars. For the most part they are foreign; perhaps that accounts for you selective blindness toward them?
Hamilton said basic, durable, inexpensive, etc., which you equated to "flop" and "lemon". Foreign auto makers producing their (according to you) bad idea cars here in the US and are not asking for gov't. bailouts, are they? "
WCPatty wrote on Dec 2, 2008 12:40 PM:
Many people, myself included, would rather vote for someone who most closely represents their views on issues rather than resign themselves as lemmings and settle for the status quo from the left or right. "
Jeff wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:36 AM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:16 AM:
Leonard wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:08 AM:
Indeed, if you want to talk about marginal candidates and diversionary campaigns, I think Ron Nader made the same argument back in November 2007. "
wtf wrote on Dec 2, 2008 8:48 AM:
What happened? At the time, he was smirked at and ridiculed; yet, a few months later, everything he had said during the debates regarding our economy came to pass.
So on the one hand, you post regarding the Recession we're in and crow about it; then, on the other hand, you pooh-pooh the man who warned us about it.
I thought you were better than that. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 6:49 PM:
If you spent months arguing with a friend talking about Nader, you both loose as there are no winners when it comes to Ralph.
Ralph Nader and Ron Paul are just different sides of the same coin. They both exist solely to marginalize dissent in the American political system.
Ron Nader and Ralph Paul are the same tree falling unheard in the forest. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:24 PM:
Yes, anyone will tell you the Volkswagen (figuratively and literally the "People's Car") beetle, after breaking every automotive production record on earth, was a bad idea.
Utter failure.
Can't possibly work.
Right Audi?
And the old Ford Model a or Model t didn't sell either.
Doomed to fail. "
dogs4you wrote on Dec 1, 2008 2:26 PM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Dec 1, 2008 2:17 PM:
Phil's "People's Car" is a proven bad idea. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 2:12 PM:
I spent months this fall arguing with a friend of mine who was a Naderite on this very subject. In the end it was all for naught. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:56 PM:
" Leonard your post was quite melodic; however, it is lacking in sense. Why don't you try actually finding out what the "Ron Paulites" are "moaning" about...you might learn something...like they don't just "moan" they have some workable **solutions** "
Lets be honest here. Your so called solutions may well be theoretically "workable" but in reality that means nothing because they don't have a snow balls chance in hell of being enacted.
In the real world, in order for a solution to be workable, it has to be enactable. Anything else is simply political masturbation. "
wtf wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:40 PM:
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:59 PM:
The cultish refusal of these groups to participate meaningfully in the political process perversely facilitates the very homogenization of political life that they bemoan.
The ship of state may be sinking but these nattering nabobs of nihilism will continue to argue about how the deck chairs should be arranged right up to the moment they hit the bottom. "
dogs4you wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:51 PM:
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:04 PM:
I was willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt; but when I saw today that Hilary Clinton is to be Secretary of State and that some of Obama's economic "advisers" are some of the same people who got us into this mess, I have to agree with Ron Paul that the only change in government will be the faces and the name of the party running things - and there is NO basic difference between the Republocrats and Dempublicans.
This is not entirely true. Significant differences do exist between the parties on some issues. The Environment would be a good example along with public funding of basic scientific research. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:01 PM:
Those looking for quality know that Detroit has taken up the Yugo's mantle in that department.
Those looking for style know that nothing says tacky new money like a 21st century caddy. "
dogs4you wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:39 AM:
wtf wrote on Dec 1, 2008 11:15 AM:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=5264
He talks about the economy and what he thinks of the "change" Obama will bring.
I was willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt; but when I saw today that Hilary Clinton is to be Secretary of State and that some of Obama's economic "advisers" are some of the same people who got us into this mess, I have to agree with Ron Paul that the only change in government will be the faces and the name of the party running things - and there is NO basic difference between the Republocrats and Dempublicans. "
Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 10:18 AM:
In a statement released Monday, the members of the groups Business Cycle Dating Committee made up of seven prominent economists, most from the academic sector said that the economy entered a recession in December 2007.
A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in production, employment, real income, and other indicators, the members said in a statement. A recession begins when the economy reaches a peak of activity and ends when the economy reaches its trough.
I suppose this is an answer to the poster who spent all of the Spring maintaining that the economy was just fine and those who were talking recession were full of hooey. "
wtf wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:35 AM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSZ8TUa3Vg
Rather than the greedy SOBs moving offshore or hiring illegals and H-1B visa holders; if these stupid sods actually hired American workers for a livable wage (something Ford did) rather than finagling to see how much they can screw out of people to line their **own** pockets, our economy might have a chance.
Regarding debt, a good movie to watch is "Maxed Out"
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1809425658/details "
wtf wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:31 AM:
Henry Ford was a true visionary whose book "My Life and Work" is **still** available today and used by many in the Japanese auto industry. Perhaps American industry "leaders" should read it.
And it was this book by Henry Ford, read by a young man while in prison, that is directly responsible for the original "People's Car" and the creation of the autobahn.
Regardless of what else this young man did; the creation of a car for the people and the autobahn were marvelous. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:45 AM:
Think of how much more you could buy if you didn't have the debt in your life. I heard a stat a while back that 98% of us retire broke, that is with more debt than assets. Do you really want to rely on a broke goevernment to pay for your retirement years? "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 AM:
All this is compounded by big business like the auto makers who thought of debt as free money to pay for previous debt. Then their sales dried up and they can't make thier payments.
Even the government treats debt like it is mystically reappearing money. "
Rhodie wrote on Dec 1, 2008 8:35 AM:
Here it is logically: We, as Americans, bought the lie that we need everything our hearts desire. To that end we use debt like it is cash. So people bought the lie of taking out loans for more than their houses were worth to buy the new car that lost a large chunk of value as soon as they drove it off the lot. The use debt to pay for vacations, Christmas and fast food. When things finally caught up with us those with 120% of their houses value tied up in debt needed to sell. They couldn't for what they needed so they foreclosed. Enought people started doing this, websites were set up to show people how to foreclose AND still live in the house short term to save for an apartment. Or they uses those debt consolidation places but didn't change thier habits so the debt racked up again. "
lodisafeway wrote on Dec 1, 2008 6:51 AM:
This is where Detroit has gone astray. The American work ethic- so celebrated as being superior to all others- has eroded to such an extent that "quality" has little meaning. Even now as we observe what we can get for $20,000 it sure isn't much. While our economy has spiraled out of control over the last few decades, in the mid-1950s my grandparents bought a very large four-bedroom home (new) for $12,000. Yes, salaries were lower and things cost less. But still, no one even blinks an eye at paying so much for a car when they really get so little.
As we've witnessed over the past year, our economic situation is on very thin ice. And I challenge anyone to logically explain just how we've arrived at this point. Every day when the market climbs or dips we're treated to a variety of "reasons" why- little of which makes much sense. "
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