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Does citing the facts on immigration mean I am a hate-monger?


Saturday, November 22, 2008 5:50 AM PST

Toward the middle of every week, I check the News-Sentinel blog to find out how readers responded to my column from the preceding Saturday.

I'm curious to measure how effectively I've made my argument. And I look for valuable feedback from readers who may point out an angle that I might have overlooked.

The columns that have generated the most passionate reader reaction are the critical ones that I've directed at President George W. Bush and those that reflect my reductionist immigration philosophy.

Three weeks ago, commenting on two stories by News-Sentinel reporter Jennifer Bonnett about the Lodi Unified School District's English as a second language classes, I wrote that after more than 20 years of teaching adult ESL, I had serious doubts about their effectiveness.

In my summary, I made two central points.

First, if the district and, in fact, the nation wants to reduce the huge numbers of non-English speakers who drain increasingly scarce financial and teacher resources, the Mexican government will have to fulfill its obligation as a sovereign nation to provide for its citizens. Instead, Mexico actively pushes them toward California, where they bring their school-age children. Once here, more children are born.

Second, unless the decades-old trend of unchecked illegal immigration reverses itself, America as we know it will cease to exist.

Some News-Sentinel readers objected.

Several feel that a multicultural, multilingual California would be a richer, more rewarding place to live.

Others say that California once belonged to Mexico and it is only just that, through immigration, the state will gradually revert to its original status.

Still another group concluded that I am too harsh on the young second-language learners. One invited me to go to Stanford University, where her former ESL student is pursuing an advanced degree.

All those views are well and good. And many Californians hold them.

But here's the key thing: Every single one of them is an opinion and debatable.

Maybe bilingual signage and pressing 1 for English doesn't bother you. But it does me.

Mexico, in fact, did once own the California territory. But Mexico lost a war with the U.S., willingly signed a treaty, accepted payment in exchange for its land and thus allowed the U.S. to acquire California legitimately.

And sure, we can find ESL successes at Stanford and maybe even Harvard, too. But with the California Hispanic high school dropout rate at about 25 percent, it's obvious that there are more failures than successes.

We can argue and argue and argue.

But there's no disputing my two conclusions. Like it or not, they're fact-based and 100 percent accurate.

To repeat, the students overwhelming our schools are either illegally in the U.S. or the illegal aliens' children. If Mexico treated its citizens with dignity or if the U.S. enforced immigration law, they would still be in their native countries.

And if the border remains wide open, then the America that many Lodians and I grew up in is finished.

Should anyone care to challenge either of those two observations, please feel free to contact me.

I'll make one final and important point that readers also overlooked.

Although some charged me of "hate," I'll simply say in my defense that I didn't pull the statistics out of the air. Don't kill the messenger.

Bonnett's original story and the column I followed up with cited the Pew Hispanic Center and the U.S. Census Bureau as calculating that by 2050 Hispanic K-12 student enrollment would increase by 116 percent nationwide and that two thirds of all San Joaquin Valley children are Hispanic.

Does that make the Census Bureau and the Pew Hispanic Center "hate" organizations?

The reality is that to deal effectively with the increasingly high rates of non-English speakers in California's public education system, we have to address what I refer to as politically incorrect "hate facts" — that is, irrefutable facts that that everyone ignores because of their connotation.

As long as no one — except maybe me — dares to talk about them, then you can expect more of the same, at least until 2050. For now, that's as long as the Census Bureau dares to looks ahead.

Joe Guzzardi recently retired from Lincoln Tech Academy, where he taught, among other subjects, ESL for more than two decades.

Reader Feedback

Leonard wrote on Dec 5, 2008 10:11 AM:

" Others share Brian's view:

(12-05) 08:19 PST AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) --

A 105-year-old singer whose past as a singer in Nazi Germany has dogged his reputation for decades is back in the spotlight after telling a Dutch television show Adolf Hitler was a "good guy"
"

mainframe wrote on Dec 5, 2008 1:48 AM:

" Brian: Which is more remarkable to you, Schindler or the nazi he was? i see what leonard is saying. Schindler is the stand out, not the nazi party. Schindler's good rose above the nazis. it's not that Schindler was the good product of the nazis. does that make sense? in other words Schindler is not a product of evil or the nazi party. Okay i'm tired so not sure if that made any sense. let me know. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:00 PM:

" Brian, it gives me no happiness to know that you are so ignorant and bigoted that you think Schindler saved the lives he did because he was a Nazi. "

Hmmm, he was a Nazi and he did. He was also a human who had compassion. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:06 PM:

" Leonard Wrote: You are an idiot if you think that the Nazi Party led Schindler to do the good that he did.

Hmmm, Now Leonard contends that no good can come from evil.

I guess Schindler was just a mirage. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 8:00 PM:

" Brian, it gives me no happiness to know that you are so ignorant and bigoted that you think Schindler saved the lives he did because he was a Nazi. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:55 PM:

" Leonard, Does it make you feel good to call me an idiot because I dare to point out the 1100 Schlindler saved? "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:34 PM:

" Again Brian, I cannot make you look stupid.

Only you can do that. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:33 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:27 PM:
" You might as well just go piss on his grave. Have you not any compassion?

I don't know. Do lesbians have any compassion for men?


Uh-oh....

It looks like he is drinking again.

Anyone want to take a bet that he uses the n-word before the night is over? "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:31 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:14 PM:
" You called me an idiot for pointing out the small ray of good that came out of the Nazi Party.


You are an idiot if you think that the Nazi Party led Schindler to do the good that he did.

A few members of the Party did fight against its agenda but AGAIN, they did what they did IN SPITE OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP IN THE NAZI PARTY NOT BECAUSE OF IT!!!

The Nazi Party preached a gospel of pure evil and hate. Nothing good could come from that message. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:27 PM:

" You might as well just go piss on his grave. Have you not any compassion?

I don't know. Do lesbians have any compassion for men? "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:24 PM:

" Lodian, So what!

So you don't give a damn about what Schindler did too?

Why don't you just tell all your Jewish friends that what Schindler did is irrelevant. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:16 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:20 PM:

" Oskar Schindler provides an example of an ordinary man who rose above the madness and insanity around him to take action based on his inner conscience. He provides proof that is it possible to do good even from the very center of hatred and persecution. He worked from within the Nazi Party to achieve his purpose in saving human lives. He refused to stand passively by and watch an entire people be systematically destroyed for believing in a different religion. His actions beg us to examine our own lives and ask ourselves what we would do in a similar situation of oppression and persecution. By saving 1,100 lives, Oskar Schindler shows us that one person can stand up against bigotry, prejudice, and intolerance, and in doing so make a difference. "
------------



Brian: This is called PLAGIARISM!



------------ "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:14 PM:

" You called me an idiot for pointing out the small ray of good that came out of the Nazi Party. What kind of creep are you anyway? So now you're saying no one else in the Nazi Party wanted to join up with Schindler. How do you know this?
I don't have any desire to redeem the Nazi Party. Neither did Steven Spielberg when he made "Schindlers List".

You need to back off with your accusations!!! "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:02 PM:

" Give it a rest Brian.

Schindler was a good man despite the fact that he was a Nazi, not because of the fact that he was a Nazi.

The Nazi Party was a force of pure evil and your attempts to redeem it are despicable. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:51 PM:

" Leonard, How do you measure "Some Good"?

Is the act of 1 man saving 1100 people not enough?

How dare you!!!!! "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:49 PM:

" How am I back peddling Leonard? You are the one who said I was an idiot for saying the Nazi Party was not all bad.

Are you comfortable saying all the descendents of Schindlers's list are just putting on an act when they visit his grave regularly? "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:44 PM:

" Leonard wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:56 AM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:32 AM:

the Nazi party was not all bad.

See Brian, it's like I said. You don't need me to make you look like a complete idiot.

-Leonard, many Jews today can thank that little ray of hope Oscar Schindler.
Perhaps you should contact each and every Jew that is alive because of Oscar Schindler and tell them I am an idiot for saying some good came out of the Nazi Party. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:32 PM:

" Brian, if back peddling ever becomes an Olympic sport, I think you have a good shot at the Gold. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:20 PM:

" Oskar Schindler provides an example of an ordinary man who rose above the madness and insanity around him to take action based on his inner conscience. He provides proof that is it possible to do good even from the very center of hatred and persecution. He worked from within the Nazi Party to achieve his purpose in saving human lives. He refused to stand passively by and watch an entire people be systematically destroyed for believing in a different religion. His actions beg us to examine our own lives and ask ourselves what we would do in a similar situation of oppression and persecution. By saving 1,100 lives, Oskar Schindler shows us that one person can stand up against bigotry, prejudice, and intolerance, and in doing so make a difference. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 6:05 PM:

" Leonard wrote: Pat Robertson wasn't the first theo-fascist to suggest that homosexuals should be murdered in public stonings and I am sure he won't be the last.

Leonard, you need to just admit that you feel Robertson could turn into a Hitler and we can move one.

I suspect the public stonings thing was taken out of context. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 4:36 PM:

" Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 4, 2008 10:38 AM:

" Mr Dockter, if the United States is going to invade every country run my a murderous dictator, we are going to need a much bigger Army.

-A rhetorical statement. And that being said, you still believe Saddam was not an immiment threat?

Actually, If you believe we should go after every dictator at the same time militarily and expect to get the same results as going after one dictator at a time then you're more foolish than I thought. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 4:30 PM:

" Leonard wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM:

" First Brian starts ruminating on the inferiority of other races and now he is claiming that the Nazis were not "all bad".

-Yep, and you just keep trying to re-write history that Oscar Schindler was not a member of the Nazi Party. Thousands of the Descendents and the remaining Schindler Jews would differ with you about this member of the Nazi Party.

What's ironic about this whole conversation is the site Leonard won't go to re-enforces how he feels about Pat Robertson and it draws parallels with his social conservatism and the social conservatism of the Nazi Party.
Leonard is always looking for proposterous things to back up his liberal agenda. Yet I find something for him and he wants no part of it. "

Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 4, 2008 10:38 AM:

" Mr Dockter, if the United States is going to invade every country run my a murderous dictator, we are going to need a much bigger Army.

Perhaps you should volunteer. I understand that you have some relevant experience. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 10:22 AM:

" I think Brian is ducking the question, again. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:46 AM:

" So, Brian, would you care to share some of Hitler's "good points" with us?

I've seen some of his art and I am pretty sure that's not what you're talking about. "

Brian wrote on Dec 4, 2008 7:37 AM:

" Leonard wrote: To claim that the most foul and loathsome expression of pure evil to raise its head in the last hundred years was "not all bad" is to invite, ridicule, disgust, humiliation and general disdain from all of the decent and good people on this planet. "

-HMMM...The Democratic party overall did not want to invade Iraq. In general, they wanted to give Saddam another chance. I smell a hipocrite here. Many decent and good people from the Democratic party did not agree that Saddam was ALL bad that we should remove him. Aren't they too inviting ridicule, disgust, humiliation....?

Indeed there were good aspects of the Saddam regime too. I would still remove Saddam and Hitler from power regardless. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 4, 2008 5:12 AM:

" Gator wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:30 PM:
" Leonard, life is good Just went out and shot my new Ruger model 77
Mark II 30-06 to-dayLaminated stock, all stainless Just makes all
The Bull S*** in the world fade away!!


Nice! I bought this new ranch rifle a few months back and I've only taken it out once so far. One of the ironies of my life is the fact that now that I have the money to buy the guns I've always wanted, I don't have the time to shoot them.

I do keep a dry fire pistol though, to keep my sight picture clean and steady. "

real facts wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:59 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:48 PM:
" richnlife: The blogs were shut down (no more comments allowed) right after real facts complained to the LNS. ").

if you couldn't lie, you would have nothing more to look forward to you in your life.

how about YOU explain to rich WHY i made the contact with the LNS in the first place, so that the blame for all this fallout can be traced rightfully back to your doorstep.

i am laughing at you yelling at brian in these blogs to own his stuff, when i have been watching you pull your garbage in here like this for over two years, and NEVER owning what YOU do

the board has YOU to thank for it's "squeeze"

in the meantime, maybe you can also explain to rich how in over two years you have yet to apologize for anything you have ever said/done in these boards "

Gator wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Leonard, life is good Just went out and shot my new Ruger model 77
Mark II 30-06 to-dayLaminated stock, all stainless Just makes all
The Bull S*** in the world fade away!! "

Leonard wrote on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM:

" First Brian starts ruminating on the inferiority of other races and now he is claiming that the Nazis were not "all bad".

I don't like where this is going. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Geez, Brian, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself. You blame others for your stupid comments, but you keep'em comin'! Wow! "

Leonard wrote on Dec 3, 2008 8:56 AM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:32 AM:

the Nazi party was not all bad.


See Brian, it's like I said. You don't need me to make you look like a complete idiot.

To claim that the most foul and loathsome expression of pure evil to raise its head in the last hundred years was "not all bad" is to invite, ridicule, disgust, humiliation and general disdain from all of the decent and good people on this planet. "

Brian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:40 AM:

" Leonard, As a lefty, you would enjoy the link. "

Brian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:36 AM:

" Like I said, A liberal is far more likely to write a book "In Defense of Hitler". Since Hitler was a liberal, the left would grab it up like hotcakes.
Appeasement is the left's middle name. "

Brian wrote on Dec 3, 2008 7:32 AM:

" Can you explain to the rest of us what you meant by the term "the Nazi's Social Conservatism"?

Were you referring to some policy that existed separate from their campaign to murder Jews, leftists, homosexuals and gypsies? "

BINGO, Not everything about the NAZI party was ruthless. If you had just followed the link I provided you would have noticed it was from one of your leftist ilk. The link slammed Coulter, Robertson, and others. Funny thing is, even the left understands the Nazi party
was not all bad. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:05 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 PM:
"Yep, it's typical of Leonard to distort what other people say to make them look stupid."

Brian: You don't need anyone's help to make you look stupid. Actually, I think Leonard has been more than generous in giving you many opportunities to explain yourself so you don't continue to look stupid, but you blow it every single time. How much help should we all give you? Shouldn't your comments stand on their own? When you can't explain away your racism that shouldn't be anyone else's fault. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:11 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 PM:
" Yep, it's typical of Leonard to distort what other people say to make them look stupid.


Sigh....

OK, Brian, lets try this.

Can you explain to the rest of us what you meant by the term "the Nazi's Social Conservatism"?

Were you referring to some policy that existed separate from their campaign to murder Jews, leftists, homosexuals and gypsies? "

Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 PM:

" Yep, it's typical of Leonard to distort what other people say to make them look stupid.

I'm not the only one who gets this treatment.

He's so insecure. When he's unfamiliar
with something he get condescending. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 4:47 PM:

" Oh, Brian. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 2, 2008 9:32 AM:

" Historical Perspective:

I have stood near Castle Garden and seen races of far greater peril to us than the Irish. I have seen the Hungarians, and the Italians and the Poles. I have seen these poor wretches trooping out, wretches physically, wretches mentally, wretches morally, and stood there almost trembling for my country, and said, what shall we do if this thing keeps on?

Professor E.H. Johnson, Crozier Theological Seminary, 1888
"

Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 7:29 AM:

" Leonard Wrote: Should we expect a new book from Michelle Malkin called "In Defense of Hitler"?

-I doubt it. But as soon as it becomes PC to be a Hitler apologist some liberal will be writing a book.

But it is PC now to be a terrorist apologist. Deepok Chopra is a known terrorist apologist. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 2, 2008 7:26 AM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 AM:

What else have I said that you would attach a different meaning to to make me look stupid? We all know how you love inflating your ego by making others look stupid.


Brian, you are the only person who can make you look stupid.

Why don't you exercise some personal responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for your problems? "

Leonard wrote on Dec 2, 2008 7:24 AM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 AM:

" I see you're twisting words again Leonard.

Sure I said Nazi Social Conservatism.

And you said "I have never heard anyone describe the murderous policies of the Third Reich as "social conservatism".

Neither had I until you said that.


So what, on Earth, were you talking about? What, precisely, did you mean by the term "Nazi Social Conservatism"?

Please, do clarify, if you can. "

Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:49 AM:

" Leonard wrote: Brian, I wasn't referring to your link which I did not click on or follow.

-I didn't think you would. If you would have then you wouldn't have been able to distort what I said. But, that's how you operate. "

Brian wrote on Dec 2, 2008 6:35 AM:

" I see you're twisting words again Leonard.

Sure I said Nazi Social Conservatism.

And you said "I have never heard anyone describe the murderous policies of the Third Reich as "social conservatism".

Neither had I until you said that.


What else have I said that you would attach a different meaning to to make me look stupid? We all know how you love inflating your ego by making others look stupid. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 6:31 PM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:02 PM:

If you read the link I provided You would have seen that theey weren't describing the murderous policies of the third reich as social conservatism.
But you can describe it as that if it makes you feel good.


Brian, I wasn't referring to your link which I did not click on or follow. I was referring to your own post in which you addressed the topic of "the Nazi's Social Conservatism" (your words, not mine).

If you do not want to be held accountable for your own words, don't post them on the blogs. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:38 PM:

" Brian: Perhaps you could post more of your own words and not as many "copy and paste" jobs and so many links all the time. But then again you get into trouble when you post your own words too. LOL! Oh well... do your best. "

Brian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:02 PM:

" Leonard wrote: I have never heard anyone describe the murderous policies of the Third Reich as "social conservatism".

If you read the link I provided You would have seen that theey weren't describing the murderous policies of the third reich as social conservatism.
But you can describe it as that if it makes you feel good.

Actually, your policy of not going to links from here will further you to misinterpret the article because that's just how you operate. "

voter wrote on Dec 1, 2008 4:00 PM:

" If the LNS wishes to keep the online discussions active and relevant, they need to provide an explanation to the regular posters regarding their decision to ban comments on all content related to religion or homosexuality. Without the ability to discus topical issues, there is no reason for some of us to frequent this website. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 3:48 PM:

" richnlife: The blogs were shut down (no more comments allowed) right after real facts complained to the LNS. "

richnlife wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:47 PM:

" whats up with all the articles concerning prop 8 being closed or not even mentioned online.

It's sad when people decide to ignore issues simply because it's to much for them to handle "

Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:25 PM:

" edumacation: Geez, you sure seem to enjoy painting a wildly colorful picture of what you think I "think" even if none of it has a grain of truth.


Not for the first time I am reminded of the Dreaded Rear Admiral. "

Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:25 PM:

" edumacation: Geez, you sure seem to enjoy painting a wildly colorful picture of what you think I "think" even if none of it has a grain of truth. Well, enjoy yourself. I must say, you are the most difficult person to converse with here on the boards, well... other than "the troll". But you're pretty close. Oh, well. Have a nice day.

P.S. Has anyone ever told you that you seem to have a hard time staying focused and on task. (chuckle) "

SportsGuru wrote on Dec 1, 2008 12:01 PM:

" .
I am an American who happens to be of mexican descent, and I don't find "enforcement of immigration laws" to be racist at all.

But then again, my family came here legally. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:58 AM:

" edumacation wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:24 AM:

" Lodian: I don't hate the criminals. I only wish they would be indicted or arrested. People like liberal, San Francisco TV-Radio commentator and child porn afficionado/prison inmate Bernie Ward


Bernie Wart is doing time. The same cannot be said of the large number of high ranking Republican pedophiles and predators that have been exposed over the last 8 years. "

edumacation wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:24 AM:

" Lodian: I don't hate the criminals. I only wish they would be indicted or arrested. People like liberal, San Francisco TV-Radio commentator and child porn afficionado/prison inmate Bernie Ward, thieves like Donald Rumsfeld, criminal aliens - open any telephone book.

Real liberals will refuse to defend criminals and elected officals just because they are "politically correct". I guess that you were probably an OJ supporter? Once you know someones liberal credentials, you make your decision about them. Liberals don't ask "Did you do the crime?" Instead they ask what color/sexual orientation/religion or country of origin? I guess you are upset that the mayor of Birmingham, Alabama was arrested this morning? Yup the FBI is picking on "people of color" again?

At least you liberals are consistent. If a criminal passes the "liberal litmus test" they can do NO HARM?

Its not what crime did they do? It's what color etc etc etc are they? "

Lodian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:59 AM:

" edumacation: Oh, I see, you are bitter and hate everybody. "

Leonard wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:58 AM:

" Brian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:33 AM:

So Leonard, Are you also suggesting that Robertson and the like's Social Conservatism my lead us down the road similar to the Nazi's Social Conservatism?


That's a new one.

I have never heard anyone describe the murderous policies of the Third Reich as "social conservatism".

Should we expect a new book from Michelle Malkin called "In Defense of Hitler"?

I should have known when they rehabilitated Joseph McCarthy that their Fuhrer wouldn't be far behind. "

Brian wrote on Dec 1, 2008 7:33 AM:

" http://community-2.webtv.net/westernmind/REICHOFFICE/

So Leonard, Are you also suggesting that Robertson and the like's Social Conservatism my lead us down the road similar to the Nazi's Social Conservatism?

Your type of conspiracy theory can only come from a troubled mind polluted with liberalism. Oh well, this is the type of stuff you libs promulgate and cherish. How sad. ): "

edumacation wrote on Nov 30, 2008 10:51 PM:

" Lodian: You rang? How in tarnation did you think up that request?? I could write another book. GW Bush is nothing but a B grade cheerleader hatched by a family of self-centered nouveau riche. At first I thought that "monkey boy" was amusing- Can he pronounce "NUCLEAR"? But as I watched his plans hatch and he eagerly encouraged people with evil intent to profit from his office, I changed my attitude. GW isn't just stupid, he appears to be a willing partner in crime. The idea of our Vice President earning more each year in "salary" in his ex-job at Halliburton as they receive billion dollar sole source contracts, boggles the mind. I mentioned before that many conservative and liberal commentators do all of us a disservice by refusing to talk about the crimes of their heroes. From the evils of a Dianne Feinstein (her hubby is knee deep in crimes) through gay brothel owner Barney Frank and to "Mr. Shredder" himself Dick Cheney. Its only a matter of time before Congressional committees or Government agencies start investigating them. Remember Vice President Agnew? He had to resign and plead nolo for his crimes. "

Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 6:22 PM:

" Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:41 PM:

I'm beside myself trying to understand
even if the U.S. could be labeled a Christian nation how that could compare to how people are treated in Islamic countries under Sharia Law.


Well, I suppose it would depend on which brand of fundamentalist whack jobs was to seize power. Pat Robertson wasn't the first theo-fascist to suggest that homosexuals should be murdered in public stonings and I an sure he won't be the last.

If that is the sort of tyranny you seek to impose on our country, then yes, I would say it would be pretty comparable to Sharia Law. "

Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 6:22 PM:

" Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:32 PM:
" How little you know about Islam. You didn't even know or heard about Sharia Law until I brought it up in a blog some time ago.


Chuckle....

Please, don't let the facts get in your way. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:41 PM:

" You libs are so convinced that Christian Fundamentalists want a theocracy in this country you'll spread lies and propaganda to make it seem so.
Yet you overlook the 34 countries that are labeled Islamic. Given 99.9% of all the terrorists attacks are by Muslims, I'm beside myself trying to understand
even if the U.S. could be labeled a Christian nation how that could compare to how people are treated in Islamic countries under Sharia Law. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:32 PM:

" How little you know about Islam. You didn't even know or heard about Sharia Law until I brought it up in a blog some time ago. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:30 PM:

" Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 11:19 AM:

" Brian, will you ever learn to look before you leap?

There are a number of groups campaigning for better treatment of Islamic women both here in the US and around the world. Almost all of them are run by people you would call "liberals".

Its just like I always say. Facts are like kryptonite to conservatives. "

-I never said there weren't groups.

You have some facts that all these groups
would be called liberals by conservatives?

The Jihadwatch website has a multitude of Islamic watchdog sites that I would consider conservative.

I always thought liberals had trouble even saying Islamic Radicals let alone
acknowledging the treatment of women in Islamic countries to the point where they would want to help them. "

Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 11:19 AM:

" Brian, will you ever learn to look before you leap?

There are a number of groups campaigning for better treatment of Islamic women both here in the US and around the world. Almost all of them are run by people you would call "liberals".

Its just like I always say. Facts are like kryptonite to conservatives. "

Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 11:15 AM:

" Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:32 AM:
" Leonard wrote: I don't think you are bright enough to understand what you
wrote.

What else do you see in your crystal ball Leonard?


I don't have to be a sage to see edumacation for what he is. You may want to smear lip stick on a pig but I simply call it like I see it. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 10:09 AM:

" http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=3261BB96-7E07-4CCE-9DE8-C2F7FB854E51

The number of rapes committed by Muslim men against women in the last decade is so incredibly high that it cannot be viewed as anything other than culturally implicit behaviour. It is overtly reinforced and sanctioned by Islamic religious leaders who blame the victims and excuse the rapists. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 10:00 AM:

" cont.

Women who live in Saudi Arabia, where the fundamentalist Wahhabi sect exerts such a strong influence, risk arrest on suspicion of prostitution simply for walking down the street alone. Ironically, Amnesty International claims that in Pakistan, a locus for sexual slavery trafficking, women have actually been killed for refusing to engage in prostitution.

We hear very little about the sad plight of women in Muslim countries. In America there is much more of an outcry against Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell for their alleged opposition to women's rights. For instance, on the issue of abortion, Robertson and Falwell place the issue of the unborn child's right to life ahead of the right of the mother to have a "choice". They are condemned for speaking out on behalf of the child, who, after all, cannot speak for himself or herself. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 9:57 AM:

" http://www.aim.org/guest-column/islam-and-the-west-buzzwords-wont-fill-the-gap/


Many Americans concerned with civil rights are quick to come forward with charges of abuse and discrimination against so-called "Islamophobes," yet fall strangely silent when they are urged to examine Islamic beliefs in greater detail. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 9:32 AM:

" Most of the ten big lies about America are promulgated and cherished by liberals in order to advance their agenda. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 9:24 AM:

" http://blog.heritage.org/2008/11/24/the-10-big-lies-about-america/

The ten big lies about America. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:51 AM:

" Edumacation wrote: Why do USA liberal groups refuse to discuss the way Islamic women are beaten, raped, abused and tortured. How about the way they are treated in Lodi? If these women were in any other PC group we would hear it if they stubbed a toenail. Where are the cries from the N.O.W. ladies? Hmm, perhaps it should be spelled H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T. instead?

-Yes, they are strangely silent on this issue. But they aren't silent about spewing propaganda that the U.S. is the root cause of the spread of radical Islam even though Jihad is one of the prime directives in the Koran. "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Leonard wrote: I don't think you are bright enough to understand what you
wrote.

What else do you see in your crystal ball Leonard?

Coming from a person who has said to me he often doesn't realize what he is writing. How can Leonard be so sure about Edumacation? "

Brian wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:28 AM:

" http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/outsourcing/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205917099

Vast Majority Of U.S. Companies Don't Offshore IT Work


A survey of 1,400 CIOs by Robert Half Technology found that only 5% of CIOs said their companies have offshored technology jobs. "

Leonard wrote on Nov 30, 2008 8:22 AM:

" edumacation wrote on Nov 29, 2008 9:32 PM:....

Nah, I think I will stick by the deal I outlined to Mazi. Your terms are way to complicated and, frankly, I don't think you are bright enough to understand what you wrote.

As for my feelings about homosexuals, I try to follow Christ's teachings and to extend love and respect to all people. "

Lodian wrote on Nov 29, 2008 11:06 PM:

" edumacation: Can you please give us the real facts on what Bush has done for us, in any area you choose? "

edumacation wrote on Nov 29, 2008 9:32 PM:

" Leonard: That look like a safe wager from my point of view. Why not sweeten the odds and the pot a little? What if we give Obamanation 48 months to pullk off some kin ds of "amnesty" deal? Actually it isn't amnesty---its amnesty in advance. We don't know who these people are. If he INDENTIFIES them FIRST with fingerprinting and a DNA profile, and follows that up with a top down audit of what the foreign national has received in FREE benefits under ALL their names, adds 5% interest from, DAY ONE, to the total, and sets up an undischargeable debt THAT MUST BE PAID IN FULL before "amnesty", and must pledge NO LAWS can be broken---anywhere. "Any" criminal arrest history--and POOF back to wherever they came from. The "amnesty" plan sounds better, but we need to extend the statute of limitations on ALL crimes from the DAY they first entered the country. Any criminality or illegal voting---OR illegal anthing --Poof out of OUR country. I submit EXTREMELY few illegals will be eligible for any so-called amnesty. Leonard you need to give up your HOMOphilia! Love of homos! "

Leonard wrote on Nov 29, 2008 6:26 PM:

" Mazie wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:03 AM:
Especially since Obama's aunt is here illegally. He will grant citizenship to all first thing.


Really? You want to bet?

Here's the deal. If Obama signs legislation giving citizenship to all illegal aliens in the first hundred days of his Administration, I will leave these blogs forever and never post here again.

If he doesn't sign such legislation, you will remove your racist homophobic carcass from these blogs never to return.

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Care to put "

Mazie wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:05 AM:

" Of course, then they will HAVE to be paid minimum wage which will up the prices for our vegies. Go figure that one. Makes no sense to me. We need to bring back "Operation Wetback." "

Mazie wrote on Nov 28, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do. Especially since Obama's aunt is here illegally. He will grant citizenship to all first thing. "

tired wrote on Nov 28, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Great article. The facts speak for themself. If anybody says anything derogatory about any race but white's (which is OK for everybody) they are hate mongers. Its about time everybody stop making excuses and start doing something about it. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 27, 2008 9:42 PM:

" Mazie: A lot of our produce comes from other countries. But I agree. Perhaps we should all start our own victory gardens. Its healthy, there are no pesticides and it helps give a focus activity for the family. The only produce I buy is exotic(for the locale--bananas, pineapple, cocoanut, etc) or out of season. Lets all start growing our own veggies! But I could never be a vegan. I love blood red beef. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 27, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Gator: Yesiree. I will be hring twelve of them via another firm in India. even with all the paperwork its cheaper than here. Plus the work is the best. I have a few in Fremont but they are moving back to Mumbai. Enginneers get paid more here, but have nothing to show for it. As long as 1940's tract houses cost $800,000 why deal with it? "

Mazie wrote on Nov 27, 2008 10:01 AM:

" Why are we educating illegals and why are we supplying them with free services? Because they work cheap? I would rather pay more for my vegetables and get them the heck out of here. "

Gator wrote on Nov 27, 2008 8:47 AM:

" India arguably has the best engineering school in the world. The Telecom company I worked for use lots of them along with Pakistani, Iranian and
european engineers. The Reason, they worked cheaper and their work ethic
was better, all this took place in the San Francisco bay area and in Reno
and SacramentoThe Asians have only one advantage they know how
to study and they know what success means and they go after it As for
the Gate program, the last time I picked up my grandkids at Elkhorn there
were a good number of Asians there "

edumacation wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:31 PM:

" I forgot. you don't have to pay with USD. Shares are as good as money. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:13 PM:

" Many issues are presented here. Whew! But its notable that I have so much company. I am in the process of closing up shop. Yup! We are moving our business to India. Its not because of greed, but to allow us to stay in business with a new President who is anti-business, pro-welfare and pro Investment bankers. We have no other options. By outsourcing, we have to deal with Indian regulations and more middle men, but they are less of a hindrance than our government. FYI I can hire a PhD engineer in India for $40k/year, and they will work nonstop 7 days a week, and NEVER complain. You can't do that here. "

ralphcesena wrote on Nov 26, 2008 8:45 PM:

" Happy Thanksgiving!

Don't forget to support Adopt A Child on Saturday:

http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2008/11/25/features/1_rotary_081125.txt "

sam wrote on Nov 26, 2008 6:07 PM:

" wtf, well I want that short list of companies who are 100% USA.

wtf, I do love your blogs.

Happy Thanksgiving and blog on. "

wtf wrote on Nov 26, 2008 6:01 PM:

" Lodian wrote: "It may be easier to list the companies that do NOT outsource!"

Ye gads! I think you're right; especially since the one I posted was the ***short*** list. "

Lodian wrote on Nov 26, 2008 3:16 PM:

" wtf: It may be easier to list the companies that do NOT outsource! "

Lodian wrote on Nov 26, 2008 3:15 PM:

" edumacation: Don't get me started on the GATE program again! "

wtf wrote on Nov 26, 2008 2:48 PM:

" Socrates wrote: "Those caught hiring illegals will get their business license revoked, fined, and in jail for one day."

I totally agree. Well said! But I'd lock them up for longer than one day. "

Socrates wrote on Nov 26, 2008 12:47 PM:

" Joe tells it like it is. They expose the true facts. Joe is protected under the Constitution and Freedom of Speech. People need to know the truth with facts. Politicians need to be held accountable for not enforcing laws against illegals in Lodi and San Joaquin Valley. If they committ a crime in Lodi and are illegal, deport them to Mexico or wherever their country of origin is even if it is Pakistan, Russia, Ireland, Egypt, etc. It's not fair to taxpayers to foot the bill to educate the children of illegals who knowingly break the law. Law enforcement need to fine Lodi employers who knowingly committ fraud by hiring illegals leaving unemployed citizens with no jobs. Maybe, Lodi needs an ordinance. Those caught hiring illegals will get their business license revoked, fined, and in jail for one day.
America is broke, unemployed, etc. Taxpayers will not pay more taxes in a recession type economy when people are hurting. Mexico's corrupted government needs to get the message! Stop sending your poor to California and start taking care of all Mexicans not just the rich elite de ls Ciudad De Mexico! "

edumacation wrote on Nov 26, 2008 10:05 AM:

" Voter: I could write a book about it. Lets start locally. Try looking at the LUSD GATE program. There is a selective disdadvantage for Asians. Selection criteria is exclusive not inclusive to this group. Subjectively defined "lower socioeconomic" credit is assigned to certain identified ethnic categories. South Pacific Islanders and Asians are not included. "

Gator wrote on Nov 26, 2008 9:25 AM:

" Yes the list of companys look swell, question is so what ?? On one hand the
American worker has priced himself out of a job and on the other hand
environmental restrictions have restricted development on many fronts no mater how clean the company wasUAW workers under contract make 70.00+ an hour in wages and benefits as for USA Toyota its 40.00 and hour
wage and benefits. The main reason for the offshore is the American public
hasnt put their foot down and said no!!! We stopped immigration reform
twice dead in its tracks with the I-net and phone calls the same can be done
with the offshoreYou need to be involved 24x7x365 not just sit around
and moan were getting screwed.. "

wtf wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:58 AM:

" Nordstrom

Northrop Grumman

Northwest Airlines

Owens Corning

PepsiCo

Pfaltzgraff

Pfizer

Phillips-Van Heusen

Pinnacle West Capital Corporation

Pitney Bowes

Quaker Oats

Radio Flyer

Radio Shack

Rainbow Technologies

Rawlings Sporting Goods

Rayovac

Raytheon Aircraft

Sallie Mae

Samsonite

Sun Microsystems

Target

Tupperware

USAA

Wachovia Bank

Walgreens

Xerox

Zenith

Fact is, it's getting harder and harder to "buy American"

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/75822 "

wtf wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:58 AM:

" Delta Air Lines

Delta Apparel

Direct TV

Eastman Kodak

Ethan Allen

Evenflo

Evergreen Wholesale Florist

Evolving Systems

Evy of California

Expedia

Extrasport

ExxonMobil

Ford Motor

Foster Wheeler

Franklin Mint

Franklin Templeton

Freeborders

Frito Lay

Fruit of the Loom

General Electric

General Motors

Generation 2 Worldwide

Genesco

Georgia-Pacific

Gerber Childrenswear

GlobespanVirata

Goldman Sachs

Gold Toe Brands

Goodrich

Goodyear Tire & Rubber

Google

Haggar

Halliburton

Hamilton Beach/Procter-Silex

The Hartford Financial Services Group

Harper-Wyman Company

Hasbro Manufacturing Services

Hershey

IBM

John Deere

Johns Manville

Johnson Controls

Johnson & Johnson

JPMorgan Chase

Kraft Foods

Lear Corporation

Leech Tool & Die Works

Lehman Brothers

Leoni Wiring Systems

Levi Strauss

Leviton Manufacturing Co.

Lexmark International

Moen

Money's Foods Us Inc.

Monona Wire Corp.

Monsanto

Morgan Stanley

Motion Control Industries

Motor Coach Industries International

Motorola

Nabisco

Nike "

wtf wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:56 AM:

" T&C wrote: "Billions of dollars are SENT BACK TO MEXICO...and that is a FACT! Buying from American based businesses only makes sense!"

The following is a partial list of U.S. companies identified by CNNs Lou Dobbs as outsourcing jobs to foreign countries:

AFS Technologies

A.G. Edwards

Agere Systems

Agilent Technologies

AIG

Alamo Rent A Car

American Dawn

American Express

American Greetings

American Household

American Management Systems

American Standard

American Uniform Company

Anheuser-Busch

BellSouth

Bentley Systems

Berdon LLP

Berne Apparel

Bernhardt Furniture

Best Buy

Bestt Liebco Corporation

Beverly Enterprises

Birdair, Inc.

BISSELL

Black & Decker

Bristol-Myers Squibb

Capital One

Cardinal Brands

Carrier

Carter's

Caterpillar

Cigna

Circuit City

Cirrus Logic

Cisco Systems

Citigroup

Clear Pine Mouldings

Clorox

CNA

Coastcast Corp.

Coca-Cola

Dell Computer

DeLong Sportswear

Delphi

(cont.) "

Gator wrote on Nov 26, 2008 6:47 AM:

" The word illegal speaks for its self Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal Date: 1538 .It doesnt matter one iota what race they are, if they come In under the radar, home they go!! Look at it this way its equal opportunity deportation!! And as I said before they are a slap in the face of
every one who follows the law and takes years to get in. An interesting point
is f you knew how much of all your taxes go to support the illegals it would
make you quite ill.. We only owe those folks one thing, to be treated humanely other than that, not one thingIt has become quite common to
bend the law to suit ones agenda and that is wrong!!! "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:57 PM:

" Ed--can you give an example of which institutions are discriminating against Asian children and just what form that discrimination is taking? Generally, the discrimination goes the other direction, with Asians viewed as the "ideal" immigrant and all others viewed as somewhat less welcome by racist types. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:51 PM:

" voter: Because of the BIG problem with Mexican aliens who have invaded San Joaquin County. I new you were going to play favorites with your minority of the month program. If you only knew what the Aztlan crowd thinks of anyone other than Indios. Go visit their website. The Aztlan crowd hates one group more than Gringos, or African-Ameicans. Guess who the group is? Yes. the enemy of you buddies the Palestinians. Do we have some cognitive dissonance? Visit their website! Libs love Aztlan advocates but Aztlan groupies (Sen Diane Feinstein-Blum of all people) hate Jews. How can that be? Libs love Arabs but libs--go ahead you finish it. See the word LIBERAL also spells H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T.E.

I know a place in Jalisco, you might not enjoy. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:41 PM:

" Voter: Please don't try to speak for me. It is painfully obvious that Asian children are discriminated by many of our institutions because they are not valued by the liberals who like to measure them. It seems that liberals are only happy if they can be paternalistic toward people they look down on. I can give you some neighborhoods of "minorities" to rescue here in the USA, and you would be lucky to enter and survive to tell about it. Currently, in some parts of Compton, areas are cordoned off by Mexican nationals who have a goal of killing anyone but one of their own. Special emphasis is given to African-Americans. Libs like to call them "latinos". I call them what they are terrorists from Mexico. Mexico doesn't want them and we don't want them. Why don't you rescue them? Police patrols require 3 officers per car. It sounds like a war to me. Maybe if liberals didn't encourage these Mexican national criminals, they would try invading Guatemala to the south. But wait, the Guatemalans can't be racist because they don't want the Mexican invaders. Explain. "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:02 PM:

" Ed--it interests me that you seem to think that the only illegal immigrants are Hispanic. The Bay Area is filled with illegals from Asian countries. Maybe you have been to Hawaii. Who do you think is doing all of the service work in those big hotels? Lots and lots of them are illegal Asians. I have nothing against any immigrant group--I just don't think you should be singling out Hispanics to focus your anger upon. "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:56 PM:

" Ed--why would you think that Asian students were not valued? Many outstanding students in LUSD are of Asian descent. Few of the top students are themselves immigrants. They are the children and grandchildren of immigrants. But many more Asian students are struggling. Go visit any of the North Stockton schools. You'll find plenty of Cambodian, Hmong, and Laotian children that are not meeting the state's expectations. Many children of all racial groups are struggling--immigrants and established groups alike, including Caucasians. Socioeconomic status is a bigger predictor of school success. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Voter: YOU made the broad stereotypes, not me. I only mentioned my friends. It's obvious an education filter is whats blinding you. Look around here in Lodi, where are the kudos from liberals about the EXCELLENCE of our students from Asian countries. You won't, because they are not on your liberal PC "in-group" for this year. Today, its African Americans, illegal Mexican aliens and gays. When ASIAN immigrants work and achieve ON THEIR MERITS, you hide. Liberals love losers and love to feel guilty. Does it make you feel better about yourself?

Well, while your heart bleeds for your selected poor, I have a question for you. I dare you to be honest.

Why do USA liberal groups refuse to discuss the way Islamic women are beaten, raped, abused and tortured. How about the way they are treated in Lodi? If these women were in any other PC group we would hear it if they stubbed a toenail. Where are the cries from the N.O.W. ladies? Hmm, perhaps it should be spelled H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T. instead? "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:15 PM:

" And Edumacation, I have been to South America and witnessed some of the worst poverty I have ever seen. It is hard to imagine these poverty-stricken indigenous peoples, particularly those in the Amazon basin and the Andes looking down on people from other nations--certainly I never witnessed that sentiment. Maybe your friends are more well-to-do types living in urban areas. Still, even the nicest sections for the cities I visited were surrounded by unbelievable poverty and often violence too. Why would they look down on foreigners when their own citizens are living in such squalid conditions? "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Illegal immigration is a separate issue that needs to be dealt with by our government. Those immigrants who are here legally, regardless of education level or proficiency with English, need to be treated with a basic level of respect. They are attempting to make a better life for themselves and their children, just like countless millions before them. "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:05 PM:

" Edumacation, your views are based on broad stereotypes and a complete lack of historical perspective. The inscription on the Statue of Liberty reads in part, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. . ." The immigrants who built this country were largely from the lowest classes of foreign nations. Almost always uneducated and illiterate, they resided in slums where they continued to speak their native tongue--Italian, Irish, Russian, etc. Their children received schooling--but often dropped out--they learned English and basic literacy. It's historically the third generation that finally was/is very successful in school. In the last several decades, immigrants from India, China, and Korea have arrived with more education--many of them high-tech workers--and their children excel right out of the gate. These parents have already experienced the value of education. Immigrants from Southeast Asia have not fared as well--only 5 or 6 percent of Cambodians, Khmer, and Laotians have college degrees. Many Hispanics, like these Southeast Asians and many of our European ancestors, will require more time to acculturate. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 6:32 PM:

" My friends in Mexico, Bolivia, Uruguay, Brazil, Belize, Argentina, and Chile ask me how Americans can allow these paracaidistas (illegal migrants-squatters) to sneak into our country. All of these people are disgusted by them. I suggest that YOU travel to Sudamerica to experience other cultures. According to them, its a toss up between the peasants of Colombia and the Indios of Mexico. Which are the worst?

Most immigrants to the USA come here for freedom and a new way of life which includes learning a new language and culture. When you take the absolute worst of a culture and bring it to the USA to celebrate it. It is only a salve for the guilty consciences of liberals. I don't hear you applauding other immigrants who are successful, ONLY the losers. Look at the immigrants from Korea, China, and Viet Nam. Their children had to learn a NEW ALPHABET before they could learn English. Mexicans with the same alphabet fail to graduate from high school in record numbers. The highest achieving students in the LUSD are immigrants, but NOT from Mexico. Explain that Mr/s liberal. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 6:16 PM:

" To Voter You are amusing! How do you think the way you do? Please explain. I detect a nascent liberal tone to your comment. Yes, "our" world is getting smaller. But this impression is partly because of technology and communication, but that's probably not what you meant. I frequently travel to otehr countries and have learned that many people in other countries view the USA as a Third World country. The selfishness of US liberals is part of the problem. Yes, I won't knowingly have friendships or business relationships with homosexuals. BTW lesbians and gays are homosexuals. You are begging the question by trying to assert that lesbians are somehow different than gays ie ("gays and lesbians"). Apples and oranges may be different, but they are both FRUIT.

I never implied that I did not associate with those who speak another language. Illegal migrants from Mexico would do well if they did speak Spanish. But alas, many of THESE people are illiterate in Spanish. I have many friends in central and South America. If you think I hate illegals from Mexico, you should hear what they say. "

voter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 5:46 PM:

" Edumacation, your world seems to be shrinking rapidly. You won't associate with gays and lesbians, and you won't associate with anyone who speaks a foreign language. I have news for you, heterosexual white people who only speak English will soon be a small minority of this state's population. Maybe try North Dakota. "

T & C wrote on Nov 25, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Billions of dollars are SENT BACK TO MEXICO... and that is a FACT! Buying from American based businesses only makes sense! It is everyone's right to shop or not to shop at any store. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 5:15 PM:

" Election year: It's really simple.

It's my telephone, and I answer it the way I WANT. Press #2 and you go to voice mail hell, where the caller will, hopefully, have an opportunity to listen to all the singing that he, she or it (non-gender specific for those who are confused about such matters) would like to enjoy or endure.

If you are observant, you will notice that typing characters into this comment space will result in different results. This is a software issue with the Townnews network servers as well as time delay issue with the various switches.

I don't need a "lesson" in grammar or spelling, however I suggest that you take a few lessons in manners.

Bottom Line: I won't do business with those who make NO effort to speak English. Guess what? Its my choice. Its a purely personal business decision. My customers make money from my work. Why encourage slothfulness, and laziness? "

Election Year wrote on Nov 25, 2008 4:37 PM:

" edumacation: Is that #2 choice supposed to be "try to learn English?" or are you suggesting we all need to learn Spanish? When the take-over is accomplished you'll probably need it!

concerned citizen: Make up your mind which way you want it. Everyone screams that they want "them" to learn English, but when "they" take ESL, "they" are preventing "American born" children from learning. What do you propose other than sending "them" all back across the border? And given your poor spelling and usage, perhaps you would "benifit" from taking a class in English. "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:27 PM:

" I think I'm going to put this song on my answering machine. At the end of the song will be a message that says if you speak English press 1, if you speak Spanish press 2. If you press 1, you will get through, if you press 2 you will get to hear the song all over again. After a few times, they will either: 1) Learn the song and hopefully start singing it 2) Try to start learning Spanish or 3)Hang up and leave the country. All good choices! "

Leonard wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:34 AM:

" Does citing the facts on immigration mean I am a hate-monger?

Only if you are also inciting hate. "

concerned citizen wrote on Nov 25, 2008 10:26 AM:

" FACTS ARE FACTS!
English for a second language being taught in elementary schools has slowed down the learning of our American born children. We are paying the price for illegals to be hospitalized and educated with our HARD EARNED dollars. Where is the sense in working people paying for able bodied illegal aliens to benifit from our hard work and THEN expect us to change our rules to accomodate their language!??!?!? "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:41 AM:

" Joe Tex lyrics Continued:
Yep, turnabouts fair play
Heck I already love the food.........and Tequilla
I'm gonna fly the Lone Star Flag and Old Glory every day
I'm gonna celebrate every 4th of July
I'm gonna make them print them forms in English just for me
I'm gonna marry me a pretty senorita and
well have free medical care and free education for all our kids
Heck playin my old guitar is the only OTHER skill I got
I wonder if I'll see old George Strait over there
Hey Gringo you swimming the wrong way man
Yeah Yeah I know
Hey Amigo, Hey Amigo you got a seester? "

edumacation wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:39 AM:

" Great article!
This song by Johnny Tex says it all:

http://www.texasreddirtmusic.com/slthm.html

"I was sittin in traffic listenin to the radio
George Strait was singin Seashores of Old mexico
IT sounded so good I got an idear
I'm gonna go there since they're all over here
the Lone star state should be renamed Texico

So long Texas hello mexico
I'm gonna swim the Rio Grande at El Paso
I'm leavin tonight I ain't gonna pack
I'm only takin the clothes on my back
So long Texas hello mexico

I'll drive a rattletrap car with no liability
I'll demand equal rights though I'm there illegaly
I'll protest in the streets 'till they finally grant them
Sing English words to their national anthem
Hey Vincente what's right for your people should be right for me.
Theres no controllin that tide that keeps rollin across the line
This old Texas cowboy feels like my home states no longer mine.

So long Texas hello mexico
I'm gonna swim the Rio Grande at El Paso
I'm leavin tonight I ain't gonna pack
I'm only takin the clothes on my back
So long Texas hello mexico

Yep, turnabouts fair play "

Lodian wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:52 PM:

" Brittanicus: Can you please cite your source for that copy and paste. Thanks. "

Brittanicus wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:11 PM:

" NO! YOUR AMERICAN PATRIOT, FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL AGAINST IMPOVERISHED ILLEGAL WORKERS SLIPPING ACROSS OUR UNDERMANNED BORDER.

START THE BALL ROLLING--TELL YOUR CALIFORNIA FRIENDS AND FAMILY!

Start the push to stop SANCTUARY CITIES and STATES, beginning with LOS ANGELES, California. Sign the petition for JAMIEL'S LAW, to stop local government, corrupt politicians in collusion with special interest groups. Go here and become a patriot and stop once and for all the slaughter by illegal alien gang members, criminals and drunk drivers on our streets and highways. Go to www.jamielslaw.com.) Sgt. Anita Shaw believes that this struggle has to do with more than her sons memory; that she has in fact come home from one war on terror in Iraq to fight another one on the streets of America where the stakes are equally high. The costs of $1.trillion dollars yearly is appalling to subsidize parasite businesses.

Her son was murdered by an illegal alien gang member in LA, as was the 3 Bolgna family members with a AK 47 weapon in San Francisco where refuge for illegal foreign nationals thrive? Thousands of others throughout this country have died at "

T & C wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:44 AM:

" http://www.reportillegals.com/

http://www.illegalaliens.us/ "

T & C wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:40 AM:

" Here is part of the problem with Illegals, and enforcing our Immigration laws! "The LAPDs ban on immigration enforcement mirrors bans in immigrant-saturated cities around the country, from New York and Chicago to San Diego, Austin, and Houston. These sanctuary policies generally prohibit city employees, including the cops, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities"!
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html "

T & C wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:38 AM:

" Obama had the "Hispanic vote in his back pocket to ensure his presidency! Legal hispanics wanted total amnesty for illegals without the requirement to learn our language, learn our laws, pay any fees, no fines, no returning to their OWN Country even for a mere 10 days! Illegals refused to stand in line with the rest of the world's immigrant applicants! They are here, millions and millions of them, and they WILL BE GRANTED TOTAL AMNESTY before December 31, 2009! "

T C wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:35 AM:

" "Californias prison population is combustible, divided roughly evenly among three groups: 38% of inmates are Hispanic, 29% are black and 27% white"
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/03/california_pris_1.php "

wtf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:34 AM:

" Closely aligned with the alleged new Secretary of the Treasury is the info from the story below.... Illegal immigration is falling in America. Experts say that's because of the struggling economy and stepped-up enforcement.

I don't know about the stepped-up enforcement part; however, **if** illegal immigration is down in large part due to sucky U.S. economy, this tells me that a BIG part of the problem are greedy U.S. corporations who don't want to pay a fair wage.

Illegal Immigration Declines In America

http://cbs13.com/national/Illegal.Immigration.Declines.2.831040.html "

wtf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:33 AM:

" I worked years ago and saw a payout for about 15 farm laborers and two office people. The office people worked for about $8.00 an hour. It totally shocked me to see that the two office workers made MORE than the 15 laborers combined.

Someone said they work without a union; it seems to me they work are far below minimum wage as well - which is criminal - and of course no American worker would work at these rates. Still, given currency fluctuation and the economy in Mexico at the time, the little paid here might have gone a long way in Mexico.

Everything is relative. "

wtf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:22 AM:

" Gator I just had a feeling your lucidity wouldn't last very long and it seems I was right. LOL! "

wtf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:21 AM:

" peppier2 wrote: "please stick to the topic instead of giving us sites about Ron Paul. We're sick of his name by now. How about giving our new President-to-be a chance?"

I was more than willing to give Obama a chance, and still am, to an extent; however, when I come across things like the following:

Geithner Likely to be Treasury Secretary

Geithner has been a key player in the current economic crisis -- helping Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and his team manage the wall street bailout.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/21/1685124.aspx

I am **not** re-assured. As for mentioning Ron Paul, I will continue to mention his name because he is still maintaining his Campaign for Liberty.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Furthermore, you say: "We're sick of his name by now."

Interesting, so you speak for everyone else now, do you? "

Gator wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:01 AM:

" Simple! If you have to ask why, wouldnt understand anyway!! "

mainframe wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:44 AM:

" Gator wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:56 PM:

" wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:32 PM:
" To Gator regarding your post on Nov 23, 2008 10:32 AM

Hunhhh???? " Man thats deep!!!! "

Hey Gator: I didn't get it either man. "

Election Year wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:26 AM:

" Guzzardi makes a great arguement by stating only a small percentage of the facts. I'm disgusted by several factors: He is an "educator" who has profited from "teaching" the very people he vilifies; his ignorance of the history of California and the Treaty of Guadalupe and its true consequences; his support for the Southeast Asian invasion of the 70's disguised as "political asylum." (How many of these collected welfare?) I remember attending Delta College, driving my beat-up '63 Chevy pick-up and paying full tuition, while SE Asians went for free and drove brand new Toyotas. Maybe he is partial due to his SO being of the Asian persuasion.

Yes, we need to protect our borders, both North and South. But our government (and others) know the real reason this is not happening....we need these people for economic reasons. The "push and pull" of Mexican immigration since the late 1800's is deeply tied to our economy. When we need them...Fine. When we don't...Let's round them up and deport them. Our government dictates who comes and goes and what benefits they get. The loudest (corporate) voices speak. "

Gator wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:56 PM:

" wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:32 PM:
" To Gator regarding your post on Nov 23, 2008 10:32 AM

Hunhhh???? " Man thats deep!!!! "

alodivoter wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:42 PM:

" I mean Government,exuse my typo. "

alodivoter wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:40 PM:

" I'm just curious. If Mexico takes over California, like some Hispanics would like, wouldn't they be defeating their purpose? I mean, US Citizens would leave, US Businesses would leave, and the Mexican Governmebt would take over. This would mean corruption and more. Isn't that what they were trying to escape? "

peppier2 wrote on Nov 23, 2008 8:05 PM:

" wtf--please stick to the topic instead of giving us sites about Ron Paul. We're sick of his name by now. How about giving our new President-to-be a chance? It's bash, bash and more of the same. "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 7:41 PM:

" I suggest we trade the Bible belt Republicans to the Democrats for the liberal democrats that are going to be disappointed with the Obama administration.

Here's an idea and the GOP needs a facelift.....

Hey, Ron Paul Republicans!?! It's Time For A GOP Palace Coup!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/hey-ron-paul-republicans_b_145745.html


This is something for you, Cogito.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=7867 "

Cogito wrote on Nov 23, 2008 2:42 PM:

" Obama has shown a history of telling people what they want to hear, just to get their votes. He likes using the clout of others for his own gain, then kicking them to the curb when that relationship no longer benefits him. Jeremiah Wright is a good example. Obama outgrew Wrights sphere of influence. When he became a liability, their friendship was disposable. Obama will do whatever will make him look good. That will probably be a good thing for all of us. He gave the leftist fringe the lip service necessary to procure their vote, but he's probably too smart to deliver on many of his Socialistic promises. He wants to be reelected. That means taking care of those with power. In Washington, money is power. "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:32 PM:

" To Gator regarding your post on Nov 23, 2008 10:32 AM

Hunhhh???? "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:22 PM:

" On another note......found this on another site. It's a **very** good idea!

JFK issued $4.5Billion Greenbacks without interest via EO11110 and LBJ serving the Federal Reserve Banking Scam had them collected. There is no plausible reason to charge interest on currency we never borrowed. The Federal Reserve Bank's assets should be confiscated, all officer jailed, phony debt set aside because of fraud and the $500Billion annual interest payments used to restart the American economy. This can all be done with a single stroke of the pen. It's a must action needed to restore America without a single syllable of debated. "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 12:56 PM:

" Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5yymadwxj8


Lyrics:

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Won%27t-Get-Fooled-Again-lyrics-The-Who/761EF79AAB42FA9C48256977002E72F9


Now, open the first link and listen to it; then open another browser and click on the following link.

This Is Change? 20 Hawks, Clintonites and Neocons to Watch for in Obama's White House

http://www.alternet.org/audits/107666/this_is_change_20_hawks,_clintonites_and_neocons_to_watch_for_in_obama%27s_white_house/?page=entire "

Gator wrote on Nov 23, 2008 10:32 AM:

" It al boils down to the Republicans want cheap labor and the Democrats want victims!!! Wtf W T F!!! get over it.. "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 10:26 AM:

" Now Obamanation (think abomination - a special ridiculous name just for you, girard) - with the Clinton crowd in the cabinet and Bush Sr. probably lurking in the background.

Fact is the only 'change' this election has brought has been the skin color of the prez; with the Clinton crowd working with him, it will be business as usual.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Oh, and girard, please don't speak for me. You wrote, "In spite of what we think of those "we" put into office..."

I know you used quotations, but **I** did not vote for any of these scumbags and do not need you speaking for me regarding the election of these slimeballs; nor do I need you speaking "to" me....who are you? "

wtf wrote on Nov 23, 2008 10:23 AM:

" lodisafeway wrote: "George W. Bush isn't solely responsible for the onslaught of illegals in this country. Ever since Reagan - that would be he, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have all been a part of this."

lodisafeway you amaze me. Sometimes your self-important pontificating actually makes some sense....like now.

You are exactly right.

Reagan with Bush Sr. lurking in the background - round one

Reagan with Bush Sr. lurking in the background - round two

Bush Sr. steps out of the shadows and into the light - only lasted one round

Clinton - Bush Sr. Bobsey Twin - round one

Clinton - Bush Sr. Bobsey Twin - round two

Bush Jr. - Bush Sr. lurking in the background - round one

Bush Jr. - Bush Sr. lurking in the background - round two "

Gator wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:37 AM:

" doctoroctopus That was then this is now!! Basically it has no place here, this
Is about immigration and the total lack of any control over it..Its about people who come here illegally and then think they have the right to stay and we owe it to them let them stay!! We owe it to them to send them home
PDQThey cost billions in health care, they overwhelm our hospitals, schools and prisons and foster crime with their gangs and it cost every one of us in the taxes we pay!!! And I will say it again, we need to shut down all
Immigration for at least 5 yearsLastly every illegal is a slap in the face to a legal immigrant who waited in line for years to come here!! "

doctoroctopus wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:14 AM:

" Joe, (this will be mt last comment) you state that there is no disputing your 2 conclusions, one of which is that America as we know it will cease to exist. Like Michael Savage you seem only to preach to the converted. Joe, the fact that cannot be disputed is that the America you grew up in should cease to exist. As many others do you seem to judge the "America you grew up in" through your own narrow vision. Read "Black Fire" by Nelson Peery to see the "America you grew up in" from another perspective. While you were freely going to school, working, dating, etc. there were colored drinking fountains, thousands of lynchings, etc. You write an article that is faithfully read by dozens. Give them a little more to think about. "

OTH wrote on Nov 23, 2008 7:31 AM:

" wtf

This a little off topic but every problem CA had when they recalled Davis is still here only twice as bad. His term can't end fast enough. "

lodisafeway wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:21 PM:

" You know, people who resort to this clever (sarcasm added) of distorting the names of our elected officials only make themselves look as ridiculous as the names they use. In spite of what we think of those "we" put into office, treating them with such disrespect and disdain in this way only makes us look like pathetic children. At least have a little "self"-respect.

What's going to happen when these types of name-distortions are conferred upon the new president? Oh, the outcry will be fast and furious. Much like Al Sharpton's indignation over Al-Qaeda's recent remarks referring to Obama as a "house negro." Never mind he had no qualms about people referring to Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice in the same way - but now that Obama's in the cross-hairs of such stupidity and silliness, he becomes incensed. But I really don't expect much more from the likes of Reverend Sharpton.

I'm all for free speech - so go ahead and continue if you want; just know that it makes those who behave this way appear nothing more than moronic. "

lodisafeway wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:09 PM:

" George W. Bush isn't solely responsible for the onslaught of illegals in this country. Ever since Reagan - that would be he, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have all been a part of this.

But even more than that was a Congress (you know, the guys who actually create the laws) who have done little, if anything to halt the problem when it was at least manageable. Now with so many illegal aliens here it appears to be almost impossible to get rid of them - but this is precisely what we must do.

Any granting of amnesty will be simply wrong; and We the People must find a way to get that message through to the new president and the new congress "if" they decide it's actually time to fix the problem. Once we cave into the idea of wholesale lawlessness, where will that end? How will anyone take our laws seriously when we won't enforce them?

First - REALLY secure the borders; not just pay lip service to the idea. Then, get 'em out! One-by-one; two-by-two - for as long as it takes. No one should be immune. "

Lodian wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:55 PM:

" wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:17 PM:

" But it is more than just Hispanic people who are invading...I mean Bushco has let in virtually anyone. Don't believe me? Look at this.

http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/zombiestrippers/

Don't let the campy, sleazy, b-grade appearance fool you....Bush, Cheney, the whole gang are behind this one and plan on leaving it for Obama. "
------

You're silly! LOL! ;-) "

wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:39 PM:

" OTH wrote: "The same with Mumblenegger as governer."

You got that right! Hmmmm..... I wonder.... are we better off now than when we recalled Davis?

NOT! "

wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:52 PM:

" Well no wonder the U.S. is in the shape it is.

US officials flunk test of Amerian history, economics, civics

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120/od_afp/ushistoryeducationoffbeat


Here's the report

http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/2008/additional_finding.html


And for those who are game, here's the quiz

http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx "

OTH wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:26 PM:

" wtf

There are a lot of little brown gooey piles that will be left for Obama. We can't get that little troll out of Washington fast enough. The same with Mumblenegger as governer. "

OTH wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:24 PM:

" Sam

This has been a number of years ago and their policies may have changed. He was all gung ho to go and got shot down. "

Gator wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:24 PM:

" The first week I was in New Zealand I was watching the evening news and
Saw this report on a young man from Rumania.. He was being questioned on his sponsor, a young woman who had been in New Zealand for 7 years. He was asked if he knew her before, he said no!! after about an hour he admitted he met her on a trip to England.. They said wait here, when the
Immigration officer came back they took the man up-stairs to wait for a
Flight back to Rumania( deported on the spot) later it was reported they deported the woman also. They dont mess around!!! "

wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:17 PM:

" But it is more than just Hispanic people who are invading...I mean Bushco has let in virtually anyone. Don't believe me? Look at this.

http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/zombiestrippers/

Don't let the campy, sleazy, b-grade appearance fool you....Bush, Cheney, the whole gang are behind this one and plan on leaving it for Obama. "

pat maple wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:11 PM:

" I fought long and hard to make things fair and equitable for ALL students but the special interest groups think only of themselves. I was called a racist because I opposed the Nueva Vision high school, even though we added 12 new programs and curriculums for Hispanic students, employed 9 new administrators as well as additional support staff who were bi-lingual (only one spoke Spanish before I was elected). If looking out for the interests of ALL students makes me a racist then the definition of racist needs to change. "

pat maple wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:59 PM:

" Joe: Two points...if you are an American you are here legally if you are not legal you are not an American. My ancesters are from here thus... American Native. You are American Italian...get the drift? Octo: The drop out rate is closer to 40% when calculated properly. Most HS dists are loaded with special curriculums and support for Hispanics. In Galt that is not enough...a group plans to open an all Hispanic charter school called Nueva Vision...is that enough? You will be paying for it. So do your kids who want their special curriculum. "

peppier2 wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:40 PM:

" Joe, you are right on! We're behind you on this. "

lodisafeway wrote on Nov 22, 2008 5:38 PM:

" doctoroctupus - there is an inherent difference between "racist" and "racial." Your comments were incredibly racial - going so far as to wonder what your business would be like without Hispanics. I would think others might find that "racist" as you have determined Guzzardi to be in his piece. They would be just as wrong as you are. Just because you don't necessarily agree with the author (which, by the way I submit you do), certainly doesn't mean that his motives are racist.

Speaking about Hispanics, Caucasians, Africans, Italians or any other hyphenated American cannot always be regarded as racist. That notion is profoundly ridiculous. Likewise, I believe all hyphens should be eliminated when discussing American citizens. That one little punctuation mark goes a long way to dividing this nation than anything else in the English language. "

sam wrote on Nov 22, 2008 5:16 PM:

" Sorry to hear that, OTH, my older sister loves it there. She is working on dual citizenship and that was one of the stipulations. Actually she is over there right now (spring time there). I will email her about the age thing. She never mentioned it but has mentioned the retirement money required. "

lodisafeway wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:51 PM:

" No, Mazie - the News-Sentinel "owns" this forum. They can do whatever they please with it. There is no right to speech (or anything else) in this private enterprise.

Their interference in our movements on their site does however, indicate a problem. Because they aren't comfortable with the direction of the discourse I suppose this is their way of making themselves feel better. I really don't know. Had they eliminated the ability to respond to ALL articles/letters/editorials, at least there would be some level of consistency with their actions. As it stands, unless there were violations of their forum policies and rules (as they are published to the right of the dialogue box each time we submit our opinions), I don't understand their motives. Perhaps they would care to enlighten us?

If there were violations, they should have addressed them one-by-one as they occurred and either suspended or ejected the violators from further contributions. Absent that, they should have simply shut down their entire system. Of course these are just my opinions (although I don't really believe I needed to add that little caveat). "

OTH wrote on Nov 22, 2008 3:35 PM:

" Sam

He had money but it was his age that kept him out. He died a multi-millionaire but at the time he wanted to immigrate that's the only reaon they gave him. He had a friend who lived there and they wanted to start a business. "

doctoroctopus wrote on Nov 22, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Joe, I've never enjoyed your columns. I rarely read them and as usual I found fault with this one. You have a problem with bilingual signage. Canada has bilingual signage as do many European countries, Japan, Iraq etc. Bilingual signage is a necessary reality. 25% hispanic dropout rate makes it obvious that there are more failures than successes? Isn't the 75% graduation rate actually the larger number? There are many, many legal students who benefit from ESL. You choose to ignore them. I employ many hispanics (legally). They are very simply the best, most reliable workers for my business. What would our agriculture industry be like without hispanics? Would caucasians work fields without unions, etc. Look to GM, Ford and Chrysler for your answer. Can you imagine the huge financial impact of life without our southern neighbors? Don't get me wrong. I am for enforcing reasonable, sensible laws but your article does strike me as having a racist tone. "

Feisty wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Great article; and glad to see the posted responses. A long time ago(l980's), I was a young new enthusiastic voter. An initiative came upon the ballot to allow other languages to be printed on all common
documents and interior signage. It was touted as a way for incoming immigrants to transition into "English". I honestly believed that would be great way to help would-be citizens get with the program. After all these years, it simply promotes seperatism. My great-grand parents immigrated from Italy, when they got to America, they were very proud to call themselves Americans. they immersed themselves into the culture. They insisted that the children be good citizens and speak only english. Coming to the U.S. should mean trying to assimilate into our culture. "

sam wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:09 PM:

" OTH, my sister has a home in Australia and one here on the coast. In order to retire in Australia you have to prove that you have a million dollars for retirement. It used to be $500,000, but they raised it last year.

They take care of their citizens and do not want a bunch of broke, retired people moving to Australia living off of their system.

I agree with them 100%. "

Mazie wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:08 PM:

" LodiSafeway: has LNS not taken away our freedom of speech by not letting us comment on prop 8? Hmm, perhaps we should get sign and protest in front of LNS, kind of like they are doing with prop8? "

lodisafeway wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:01 PM:

" Mr. Guzzardi - Although it is still early and your editorial is still in its infancy, I do wonder where the pro-illegal alien hate-mongers are. Oh, I know they're out there - waiting in the wings waiting to pounce when we least expect it. It will be interesting to read how they'll be able to counter what you presented as well as the comments posted thus far.

Or could it be that someone finally got through to them with the use of facts and common sense? Even if this might be true, I wouldn't count on that sentiment remaining intact too long after January 20th, 2009.

However, if you have singularly been successful with this hot topic, perhaps an editorial or two on other politically-difficult-to-discuss issues might be in the offing; say, Proposition 8? But since the LNS has ceased permitting any comments whatsoever to be posted on that subject by us lowly bloggers, we might never find out if your journalistic skills might work there as well. "

OTH wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:32 AM:

" Gator

Is Australia the same as New Zealand on immigration? My sister-in-laws father wanted to go to Australia when he retired. They told him he was too old, that their was a cutoff age. "

Mazie wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:36 AM:

" I totally agree. Remember Operation Wetback. It worked, let's do it again. One reason Obama will grant amnesty is because of his aunt living here illegally. They should fine her AND HIM for her being here. The more illegals we have, the higher the crime. They think if they legalize them, they will get more money out of them in the long run. They are wrong. "

wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Still there's a silver lining to our economic woes, and that is that illegal immigration is down. LOL!

http://cbs13.com/national/Illegal.Immigration.Declines.2.831040.html

The numbers from the Census Bureau seem to hold up what you say

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

But the question then becomes, could this be due to expectations?

http://www.latinalista.net/palabrafinal/2008/07/californias_high_dropout_rates_of_latino.html

The Pygmalion Effect coined as a result of a study by Rosenthal and Jacobson shows that expectations can affect performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Quantum_physics_and_the_evolution_of_human_consciousness.html

Finally, I think it's pretty neat how you've engaged the readers, Joe. "

wtf wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Great editorial as always, Joe, and some really great posts. Never thought I'd say this, but you are spot on, Gator regarding Canada and New Zealand. I've looked at both places and the immigration policies are very tough. Why can't the U.S. do the same?

One thing you forgot to cover Joe was that a lot of illegal immigrants come to the U.S. because they are hired by cheap business types. So a big part of the problem are companies that don't want to pay a decent wage and encourage illegal immigration.

I think you covered Sanctuary Cities before T&C, here's a link to some more.

http://www.sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_maryland.htm "

Bry wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:18 AM:

" Nice to see that so many understand how and why the the illegal Mexican aliens are playing the victims and calling those who support America's laws racists and haters. Playing the victim and vilifying others for ones own wrong doings has worked for many years within the black community so of course it will continues to work with these illegal invaders. Since there is no genuine effort being made to seriously stop this invasion, at the expense of Americans, I hope that people also understand the we as a people who lack representation from either party and it is only going to get worse. By the way, the number of illegals here in the U.S. is not 12 million, it is more like 40 to 50 million. "

Gator wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:59 AM:

" I suggest people read a book called Mexifornia A State of beginning!
by Victor Davis Hanson.. I defy anyone to call it racist, it just tells it
like it is "

jramagic wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:39 AM:

" Its not a racial thing at all. Its just common sense. Here is "Common Sense:
a) End the absurd "Anchor Baby" laws.
b) Heavily fine and rigorously prosecute
employers of illegal aliens.
c) Rigorously enforce current immigration laws that are already in the law books and implement rigorus border enforcement.
d) Create an implement a fair program for foreign workers to do needed work in the USA doing specified jobs...and force them to leave when the job ends.
e) Create a path to citizenship for foreign workers who work and don't break laws...and toss out the rest, STAT. "

ra wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Here's a real fact that supports Joe's argument. California's entire agricultural industry brings in $28 Billion annually. But, this state spends $40 Billion on MediCal for low-income residents. How are we moving ahead if we are subsidizing low-income residents more than our most important industry? The answer is we're quickly going bankrupt. You can't keep handing out entitlements (read wealth) to those whose skill level or level of effort do not match what they take from others. Most of those who actually produce jobs and innovate were smart enough to leave this state during the last boom. Expect a greater exodus of the "productive" when taxes increase to give more to the "takers". "

patricia wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:21 AM:

" You won't get an argument from me, Joe. You are correct and right on with your assessments.

Thank you for reviewing the history of how the U.S. came to acquire California legitimately. Very few people remember that part of history, because some were never, and still are not, taught the facts in school.

And I agree, unless things change, America will cease to be America, as we know it.

Maybe we can migrate to Mexico and make it the new America, when all of the habitants have come here. "

Gator wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:10 AM:

" Hate-Monger, now isnt that a nice title to hang on some one who just wants
Immigration laws enforced??? If a person sneaks in and gets caught, home
they go, period. Where do people get off saying we owe these illegals anything except a fast ride back to where they came from. Lets talk about
Canada, A friend of mine moved up to Dawson Creek to go to work for BC Hydro. After a ton of paper work and a few interviews he was told he had to
Have 10,000 in the bank and sign that he wouldnt go on government help
For a year, he is still there 38 years later and now holds dual citizenship
How about New Zealand, you DONT get in if you dont have a needed skill or can be a benefit to the country. If you mess up you are deported on the spotTell me why do we have to be a patsy for these illegals I say
Close the door to all immigration for a least 5 years!!! "

T & C wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:06 AM:

" "Identity theft is associated with illegal immigrants who use social security numbers that do not belong to them, in order to obtain fake work documentation". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft "

T & C wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:59 AM:

" I read on MSN a few days ago, that there are 3 million illegals in California. Those who are related to them, friends of theirs and those who employ them under the table are quick to use the Racism card, to make us say nothing!People from all over the world desperately want to become LEGAL immigrants and file the papers, pay the fees, learn our laws and customs, learn to read, write and speak ENGLISH and then IMPATIENTLY wait for the day they become America's NREWEST citizens! Those illegally in America, 11 Million of them, have NO INTENTION of being Legal immigrants like the rest of the world's people do! They hide, or blatantly walk among us working under the table or popping out Nino after Nino, waiting for the day OBAMA grants them TOTAL AMNESTY which I predict will occur before Dec. 31, 2009! Our southern neighbors have "No Special RIGHT" to invade America with no intention of immigrating lawfully! When anyone disagrees, "we are called racists"! The law is the law"! Please go back home , apply for immigration and stand in line with the rest of the world! "

Comments on this story are now closed.



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