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Lodi Middle School Student Elizabeth Nesbitt, 13, was suspended two-and-a-half days for accidentally pointing her bow and arrow at a teacher gym class. Also pictured is Nesbitt's mother, Jennifer. Brian Feulner/News-Sentinel)

Archery accident

Lodi girl suspended for pointing bow and arrow toward teacher; mother wants 'blemish' off daughter's school record

By Jennifer Bonnett
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Updated: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:20 AM PDT

A Lodi Middle student with a 4.0 grade-point average and plans for college has been suspended for pointing a loaded bow and arrow toward her physical education teacher during archery class.

Elizabeth Nesbitt, 13, has already served her two-and-half-day suspension, but her mother wants it off her school record, especially because, she said both the principal and teacher have told her they believe the incident was an accident.

"It's unreasonable for suspending her for something they feel was totally unintentional," Jennifer Nesbitt said Thursday after an unsuccessful meeting with Lodi Unified Associate Superintendent Odie Douglas.

"We are appalled and thoroughly disappointed in the teacher, principal and the higher-ups," she said. "I would have understood even failing her in archery, but this punishment affects her in her other six classes as well."

Last week, Elizabeth was among a group of students who lined up to practice shooting at targets with their bows and arrows. When hers was unusually tight, she turned to her teacher to ask for help in pulling it back and inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.

Since the arrow was already pulled back slightly, teacher Ron Fisher was concerned he would be shot, according to Nesbitt, who met with the teacher and principal the day after the incident.

But Elizabeth maintains she was pointing it toward the ground, not Fisher.

"I could barely pull back, like barely an inch," she said Thursday. "He said if I let it go he would have been punctured. If I would have let it go, it would have hit the ground."

Neither Fisher nor Lodi Middle Principal Marco Sanchez could be reached for comment.

Suspension at a glance

According to Lodi Unified School District, Elizabeth Nesbitt was suspended for violating state Education Code, section 48900:

"A pupil shall not be suspended from school or recommended for expulsion, unless the superintendent or the principal of the school in which the pupil is enrolled determines that the pupil has committed an act as defined pursuant to any of subdivisions

"(k) Disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials, or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties."

Source: www.leginfo.ca.gov

At the time, Elizabeth said her teacher yelled her name, told her to put the bow and arrow on the floor and go straight to the office. She was to be suspended for five days, possibly even expelled for brandishing what is considered a deadly weapon.

"I was asking for help, not for (Fisher) to suspend me," Elizabeth said.

Nesbitt, who owns City Girl in Downtown Lodi, doesn't argue with the facts. She's fighting to get the suspension removed from her daughter's record. "The time is already lost," Nesbitt said of the suspension her daughter served last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. "I don't want this on her record. If it comes down to two students for a scholarship or to get into college, and she has this blemish ... "

The suspension form, provided to the News-Sentinel by Nesbitt, reads that: "Elizabeth pointed a loaded bow and arrow at Mr. Fisher during P.E. Two other students were also in the line of fire and were shaken up. Elizabeth was aware of the rules, however, displayed a lapse in judgment that could have resulted in serious injury or death. The act was unintentional according to the student."

The form is signed by Elizabeth Nesbitt and the school principal.

Nesbitt said the suspension has already threatened Elizabeth's membership in a scholarship club.

Elizabeth said she didn't know how she'd be treated when she returned to school Monday. "I feel like people thought of me as a goodie-two-shoes and then I get suspended."

She thinks a referral sent home to her parents for their signature would have been a fairer punishment.

Nesbitt and her husband John, a San Joaquin County Sheriff's deputy, decided not to punish their daughter because they believe it was an accident. There is no evidence the student was goofing off or not paying attention.

"She's a good kid. She never gets into trouble. She's active in her church," Nesbitt said, listing the reasons she feels the suspension was unfair.

Principal Sanchez reduced the original recommendation to just two-and-a-half days of suspension and told the Nesbitts that Elizabeth could have been expelled since she technically pointed a deadly weapon at someone. (Nesbitt disagrees, since the school put the so-called weapon in her child's hands.)

Associate Superintendent Douglas said he could not comment on any specific instance of student discipline.

He said his decision is the last step of suspension appeal.

"But any parent can go before the board — that's what open session is," he said.

Douglas said the only way a suspension can be removed from someone's record is if it can be proved that the incident did not take place as reported.

He would not comment if there have been any other incidents with Lodi Middle School's archery program, but did say the district has had to deal with other cases of students with dangerous items.

Contact reporter Jennifer Bonnett at jenniferb@lodinews.com.

Reader Feedback

getreal wrote on Oct 7, 2008 10:49 PM:

" Lets just hope this young lady learned a safey lesson, her parents do the right thing and go through the appeals process and other parents do not follow the irresponsible actions like the the mother of the "Thiz kid who was encouraging drug use in a prom pic". This mom saw the stupid actions of the other mom and thought this was the way to go. Unfortunately the girl did not have a history of acting up like the Thiz kid. Now she is paying the high costs of the mothers actions. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:59 PM:

" SportsGuru (8:23 AM): There is something to what you say as there are some areas where the district wastes money, IMO. A student/family should not be denied the opportunity to address the board with a serious issue due to budget issues. I say cut the money elsewhere in the district and make sure the appeals opportunity is allowed when serious issues arise. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:49 PM:

" Rhodie wrote "... the basics of self defense sounds like an interesting idea."


That's not a bad idea, Rhodie! "

Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:46 PM:

" Aimee: It's simple. Stop dishing it out when you can't take it. You go off on other bloggers, and me, with nasty comments and attacks and then act the victim two seconds later? And you've done this ever since you logged on as Aimee. Stop playing the innocent victim. No one is buying it. You attack the pride one has for raising their children and make nasty comments about the spouses of other people. You're a big fake Aimee. And stop accusing me of using a different handle when that's exactly what you do yourself. What good for the goose... "

Aimee wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:10 AM:

" Does anyone know if this site has an "ignore" feature? I think it's time I put it to good use. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:10 AM:

" Lodian: Well, I can see it's impossible to get anything coherent out of you. I shouldn't be surprised, though, this is your normal mode of operation. You obviously think you're so cute and funny when really you are one of the most annoying posters on here and have been since you first started blogging.

If you were insinuating that Lodi Resident and I are the same person, think again. I know it's hard for you to believe that someone else other than myself would think that you are full of crap (because, of course, you could never be wrong) but just get it out of your head that I post on here under any other name but "Aimee". I am not Lodi Resident. You've beaten that old argument to death over the past few years and I can see it's still one of your favorites in your little annoying bag of tricks. I know in the past you've used this tactic for your personal amusement and to bolster your posts when people started attacking you, but some of us don't play those sorts of games. "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:23 AM:

" .
Leonard Wrote:
"LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system."


Of course they don't. They have their hands full trying to administer their "diversity" program which takes about 20% of all district resources to manage - and it serves less than 2% of the student population.

That is a lot like the Mortgage Crisis in that the Clinton Administration put in place regulations that allowed PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO BE HOMEOWNERS into home mortgages. In this case, we have a large amount of resource being aimed at a small percentage of the student population. There will NEVER be a 0% sub-standard student rate, no matter how much $$$ you throw at the problem. LUSD needs to start dealing in reality - not Utopian feel-good policies. "

Rhodie wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:18 AM:

" dyan wrote on Oct 3, 2008 7:33 AM:
" Hey. The terrorists are coming to get us at any moment."

That could be why the Middle-schoolers are learning to defend themselves.


An interesting question occurs to me here: Would a school sponsered (like during PE) self defense course make sense in today's day and age? Especially for the girls with the stats out on how many of them are likely to be attacked. I'm not sure if I would support our schools teaching our kids to be warriors, MMA fighters or such, but the basics of self defense sounds like an interesting idea. Then you can point your fist at someone without worrying about it slipping or going off and hitting someone across the yard. "

dyan wrote on Oct 3, 2008 7:33 AM:

" Hey. The terrorists are coming to get us at any moment. Let's focus on the priorities in life and quit crying over some poor baby who got her butt kicked for doing something stupid. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 4:13 PM:

" I guess you're not smarter than a 5th grader. (chuckle) "

Aimee wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:54 PM:

" Lodian: seriously, clue us in to what you were trying to insinuate. I'd like to know just what you're getting at. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Aimee: Come on... aren't you smarter than a 5th grader? LOL! "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:24 PM:

" Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2008 12:53 PM:

" Leonard, Excellent post!! Good ol accountability! "

Gator: How is this kid not being accountable if she truly knows she did not point a weapon at the teacher? "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Leonard: continued...

Q: "LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system. Do you want to have your taxes raised so that every case of detention can go through a 6 month appeals process?"

You state that the LUSD has a lack of resources, but this would be no excuse to disallow a student/family to appeal the decision of a teacher/admin when they feel it is serious enough to take it through the appeals process. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:18 PM:

" Leonard: Addressing your questions...

Q:"Why? The kid broke the rules and she suffered the consequences."

A: I think this warrants a further look. There's a difference in accounts on what actually happened. All agree that this is not a "problem" student. She should have her day in front of the board. She already did serve her time and did what she was told. She has the right to be heard.

Q:"Do you think that every kid who gets suspended should have their case reviewed before some sort of appeals board?"

A: It depends on the case, but if there is an incident that looks serious enough to the parties involved then they have the right to appeal. That is the process. One size does not fit all. This punishment seems like the wrong choice for this student.

continued... "

Aimee wrote on Oct 2, 2008 1:54 PM:

" Lodian wrote: "..Lodi Resident only seems to show up and do a hit and run on me, and back up Aimee, so you do the math. :-) Hmmm."

and

"...She just seems to enjoy these childish "hit and run" attacks....then, of course, she changes her handle again and blogs on."

What are you trying to insinuate, Lodian? Please, tell those of us that aren't "savvy" enough to "do the math". "

Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2008 12:53 PM:

" Leonard, Excellent post!! Good ol accountability! "

Leonard wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:23 AM:

" Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:15 AM:

" Leonard: Any incident regarding weapons handling in a class at school and a student should be reviewed in full when a teacher feels a suspension action is warranted.


Why? The kid broke the rules and she suffered the consequences.

Do you think that every kid who gets suspended should have their case reviewed before some sort of appeals board?

LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system. Do you want to have your taxes raised so that every case of detention can go through a 6 month appeals process? "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:15 AM:

" Leonard: Any incident regarding weapons handling in a class at school and a student should be reviewed in full when a teacher feels a suspension action is warranted.

If the teacher feels this incident warrants a suspension then it shouldn't stop there. All procedures should be reviewed especially since the accused says there was no intent and states that the bow was not directed at anyone. I have a feeling that there is more to this story. And we need to remember that a newspaper does not always have every detail exact. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:00 AM:

" It's simple and obvious. Lodi Resident wouldn't have a clue as to how much we post on the LNS boards if she were not here just as often. It's odd how "Lodi Resident" never actually engages in the conversation on topic. She just seems to enjoy these childish "hit and run" attacks....then, of course, she changes her handle again and blogs on. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 10:45 AM:

" SportsGuru wrote "I'd wager that Lodi Resident is a Liberal Democrat. Am I right?"

No way! LOL! Seriously, I don't think so. Lodi Resident only seems to show up and do a hit and run on me, and back up Aimee, so you do the math. :-) Hmmm. "

Lodi Resident wrote on Oct 2, 2008 8:12 AM:

" To Sportsguru:

The difference is that if you check the frequency of my posts and compare to the frequency of your posts, you will see that I visit infrequently. You and Lodian, on the other hand, waste your little lives here.

LR "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 2, 2008 8:02 AM:

" .
LODI RESIDENT writes:
"Can you not see that they have nothing better to do than hang out here at the LNS blogosphere?"


I always get a chuckle out of people who bash other people's participation in blogging, while at the same time blogging themselves!

I guess that can only mean that persons with such an outlook only believe their opinions should be expressed in the Blogosphere, and that anyone else with a differing opinion simply have "nothing better to do".

Based on this observation (only Lodi Resident's opinions are worthy of blogging) ... I'd wager that Lodi Resident is a Liberal Democrat. Am I right? "

Lodi Resident wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:40 PM:

" To Aimee:

Why do you engage Lodian and Sportsguru (what an idiotic self-serving handle)?

Can you not see that they have nothing better to do than hang out here at the LNS blogosphere?

Seriously, you are right...they are wrong...move on. "

Leonard wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:15 PM:

" I'm kind of hard pressed to imagine what she could possibly say that would change my opinion with regards to this incident.

She was instructed not to point the weapon at a person.

She pointed the weapon at a person.

To me, these are the relevant facts and they seem to be quite clear. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:58 PM:

" ...but, I won't hold my breath! "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:56 PM:

" Leonard wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:17 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM:
" At this point I hope Elizabeth Nesbitt takes this issue to the board. I'd be interested to know the outcome.

If the board backs up the teacher will you be satisfied with the outcome? "

Probably. I'd be interested to hear their comments on this and see how they handle it. Hopefully this will not be brushed off as just some kid's side of the story and blindly back the teacher's version of the events. I expect the board to listen carefully and take all into consideration with respect given to both parties. "

Leonard wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:17 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM:
" At this point I hope Elizabeth Nesbitt takes this issue to the board. I'd be interested to know the outcome.


If the board backs up the teacher will you be satisfied with the outcome? "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM:

" At this point I hope Elizabeth Nesbitt takes this issue to the board. I'd be interested to know the outcome. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:15 PM:

" SportsGuru wrote "AIMEE, You are the MASTER of nonsense!"

SportsGuru: You said it. Yep, Aimee is a law student. LOL! "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:14 PM:

" ....signed, Dr. Lodian (LOL!) "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:12 PM:

" Aimee wrote...

"How does it feel to approach your golden years knowing that the only worthwhile and meaningful thing you've ever done is raise children to adulthood?"

"I thinh your devotion to Lodian is touching. Does your wife know?"

To Aimee...

Seriously, Aimee, attacking someone's marriage and stating such disrespect for the raising of healthy productive children to adulthood are not the comments from a very intelligent person of good character. Are you happy with the path you have taken in your life? Then why attack another's marriage and the pride they have in raising children?

Perhaps you could take on some level of respect for families. Nothing here has warranted such an attack on another's marriage and the pride of raising their children. I think it's really sad that you have a hard time debating an issue without attacking marriages and children. When you seem to be losing the debate you start in with the personal attacks on marriage and children. That is all too telling of your character. Maybe you are proud of that characteristic, but no one here is impressed. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 3:47 PM:

" No, it's not nonsense. You made a point of highlighting the use of sarcasm on this blog and the fact that people can make statements regarding their personal selves on here with no proof to back them up. Then, you do a complete 180 and start posting personal things about you and your family, expecting to be taken at your word. And when someone turns biting wit towards you, you feel compelled to respond, not caring for the statements made.

I believe that you and I are the same in one aspect: we're both honest and would like people to take us at our word because we speak the truth. You strike me as a hard-working man who is proud of the things he has been able to accomplish over the years. Of course, as you stated, there's no proving this without revealing who we are on this board, which is not a good idea. We can call a truce to this nonsense and go on or keep it going. Bygones? "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 3:23 PM:

" .
AIMEE,

You are the MASTER of nonsense! Through all your blather, the fact still remains (whether it is my factual family, or someone elses)...

My point was that there is NOTHING MORE HONORABLE to do than choose to RAISE YOUR CHILDREN as a career. "

Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:39 PM:

" DeltaPenguin wrote "As for the school, this would be a good time to review current policies and how they can affect everyone involved."

DeltaPenguin: I agree. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:01 PM:

" SportGuru wrote: "It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living."

And wrote againm on October 1: "It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living."

Hmmm, let me think.....nope, still not offended. LOL! "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 1:48 PM:

" SportsGuru: Whoa, hit a nerve there, didn't I? Hey, SportsGuru, you of all people should know that, "..our posts are known as SARCASM. You would think that someone....would recognize sarcasm when they saw it, but apparently not. Sarcasm is a biting form of wit." Very well said, SportsGuru, very well said.

Your assertions that "I have raised three children, all honor students, all exemplary citizens, and all attending college (and other statements I chose to not reproduce for the sake of brevity)" really can't be believed. I mean, after all, certainly even you recognize that "...the fact of the matter is that just because you BLOG that you (have raised educated and productive children), doesn't FACTUALLY mean that (you have raised educated and productive children). Hence, the fact that I do not believe is BASED ON FACT -and based on the ACTUAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION!"

Remember, this is a site where people post anonymously-heck, you could be a California Supreme Court Justice for all I know.

Honestly, we just can't believe anything that people post about their personal selves on here, there's just no proof that it is true. "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:41 PM:

" .
BTW, this was more sarcasm...

"It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living." "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:39 PM:

" .
So, AIMEE
Now that you've opened the can of worms, I'll spill it.

I personally have no problem with Obama, McCain and Palin pursuing a career ... so long as their significant others are primarily focused on raising their children. SOMEONE has to bring home the bacon.

In my family, I play that role. My wife left her career and raised our children. We sacrificed a lot to do that, but our investment in our children has paid off a HUNDRED FOLD.

I have a friend who is in the opposite position. He stays home with the kids, and his wife works. Either way, the kids get what they need.

Perhaps your parent's didn't make that sacrifice for you when you were growing up. If true, that would explain why perhaps you can't grasp that concept. "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:34 PM:

" .
AIMEE, you have a lot of growing up to do. My point was that there is NOTHING MORE HONORABLE to do than choose to RAISE YOUR CHILDREN as a career.

I pity you if you only measure your self worth by what "Job Title" you hold, or what "Pay Grade" you achieve.

That isn't what life is about.

How do I know?

I have raised three children, all honor students, all exemplary citizens, and all attending college.

Like it or not - your resume (a Juris Doctorate) pales in comparison to that achievement.

And I find it interesting that you would criticize my points, while at the same time lobbing a childish comment laced with sexual innuendo - by mentioning my wife.

If your arguments don't stand on their merits, then let them lie. You don't have to pull a "Clinton" by attacking the messenger. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:30 AM:

" SportsGuru: why don't you write a note to Obama and let him know he shouldn't bother running for president-the fact that he is helping to raise his two girls should be enough fulfillment for him and his wife. Because, after all, as you stated so eloquently, "There is nothing MORE WORTHWHILE AND MEANINGFUL than to have raised a child to adulthood." I guess Obama, McCain and Palin all have their priorities backwards, eh? LOL...keep trying. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:27 AM:

" SportsGuru: whatever.....funny that you assume so much when you know so little about who I really am.

Your insults and assumptions don't bother me in the least. If you were trying to offend me, you fell very short of the mark.

I thinh your devotion to Lodian is touching. Does your wife know? "

sportsguru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:56 AM:

" .
WOW, we were right on the mark with the "condescending" label for Aimee...

AIMEE WROTE:
"How does it feel to approach your golden years knowing that the only worthwhile and meaningful thing you've ever done is raise children to adulthood?"


Dear Aimee,
There is nothing MORE WORTHWHILE AND MEANINGFUL than to have raised a child to adulthood.

I pity your children (if you have any), your husband (if you have one), or both. If you have neither, I suggest you keep it that way. "

SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:02 AM:

" .
AIMEE Wrote:
"Lodian and SportsGuru claim NOT to care about my educational status yet look at all their posts referring to the subject! Funny!"


Our posts are known as SARCASM. You would think that someone with a Juris Doctorate would recognize sarcasm when they saw it, but apparently not. Sarcasm is a biting form of wit.

But I forget - a Juris Doctorate would mean you are leaning towards being a lawyer, and there is nothing funny about being a lawyer. It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living. "

DeltaPenguin wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:24 AM:

" To jnesbitt:

Sometimes, when a fire occurs and it is unintentional, the person who set the fire still gets burned.

In this case, (all why does the school allow this arguments set aside), a mistake was made that could have ended in a fatal, or serious injury. Let this die. Because of the seriousness of the error on your daughter's part, she was made an example.

The universities will not give a rip about this incident when it is her time to enter. You have now brought much more upon her and your family then a measly 2 day suspension.

Just let it rest.

As for the school, this would be a good time to review current policies and how they can affect everyone involved. "

DeltaPenguin wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:12 AM:

" To Her Aunt:

I admittedly topped reading after viewing one of your comments mid-blog. It ticked me off enough to just address that...

I am trying to figure out why you are concerned about this going away and why you would tell people to mind their own business.

The family chose to bring this to public attention. Any flack received as a result of their poor decision is on them, not the posters here.

It will go away in time. Contacting the paper to try and appeal to the public was a poor decision for the parents to make. Shame on them for bringing this type of attention on their daughter.

Whether or not the act was intentional does not concern me. However, based upon the family's poor judgment in bringing this public, it brings to question just how far the apple fell from the tree. "

Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:10 AM:

" Lee: Tell me something, since I am much younger than you. How does it feel to approach your golden years knowing that the only worthwhile and meaningful thing you've ever done is raise children to adulthood? It has obviously made you bitter against your more ambitious sisters.

You spend much of your time on here blogging but I have YET to see you post anything remotely intelligent and probing. You answer questions with more questions. You post irrelevant observations about nothing in particular. You only agree with the more intelligent posts of our more thoughtful bloggers instead of creating your own. You engage other posters at random with your sharp words when they don't deserve your unkind words. At one time, you had multiple handles simply for your own amusement. In short, you're simply a middle-aged rabble-rousing woman who has the superiority complex who spends most, if not all, of her time on this site. Sad. "

Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:14 PM:

" Lodian wrote " Rhodie: I think that too many people dismiss the arts as well as artistic abilities "

This is one change I would make to the education system. I think all students should have to take an creative outlet course every year. Be it music, drawing, writing, photography and painting even fasion design. How many kids would be better off if they had an outlet to express themselves through?

Unfortunately budget cuts have made the focus of schools to feeding the mind rather than nurishing it. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Aimee wrote "Lodian: I am sure that you probably deserved whatever it was that you were called..."

I have no doubt! LOL! "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:25 PM:

" Aimee wrote "LOL..Lodian and SportsGuru claim NOT to care about my educational status yet look at all their posts referring to the subject! Funny!"

Aimee: It's not your "educational status" that begs a response. It's your superior attitude and insistence on pretending that, whatever your educational background, you seem to think it makes you superior on a public forum in a blog debate/conversation. THAT, oh Aimee, is what is so funny. You ask for it yet you still don't get it. It's okay, dear. Maybe time and maturity will teach you what you need to know. Someday you will learn that the degree you hold does not make you an intelligent person. There's a lot more to it than that, Aimee. When one has to boast of their credentials, whether they are real of not, then that is when ya know they are full of sh!t. LOL! Learn to laugh at yourself Aimee. "

Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:03 PM:

" Lodian: I am sure that you probably deserved whatever it was that you were called if you act in person as you do on these blogs. "

Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:58 PM:

" LOL..Lodian and SportsGuru claim NOT to care about my educational status yet look at all their posts referring to the subject! Funny! "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM:

" SportsGuru: I've been called worse. ;-) LOL! "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:39 PM:

" .
TO LODIAN:
I think I have made it CRYSTAL CLEAR to everyone here that you are a professional Dominatrix. Let's not try to pretend otherwise!!! :D "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Rhodie: I think that too many people dismiss the arts as well as artistic abilities "

Robb wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:54 PM:

" I'm gumby damnit... "

Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:40 PM:

" Lodian, back in '99 I was actually contacted by a publisher to write a book on candle making. Unfortunately after hiring a photog. for the proposal and doing a few shoots and examples of the candles the publisher decided not to. But it was still fun to try.

I had more fun teaching the classes than writing about it anyway. As I said here before I talk better than I write on non-fiction. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:15 PM:

" Aimee wrote "Lodian: No, I wasn't joking. You've failed to respond to my question-why do you care?"

Aimee: Okay, so you're not the sharpest tack, but did you really not understand that the point was that we do not care what you state as your background. It doesn't mean a thing here on the boards. You see, Aimee, you are as anonymous as any one of us. FYI, you have absolutely no idea who I am either. You only know what I have chosen to post here on these blogs. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Aimee, I can discuss cookie and bread baking tips;)

Alright I can go quite indepth into the tricks, stratigies and marketing of homemade soaps and candles. "

Cool! Can I get a catalog? ;-) "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:06 PM:

" Aimee, Aimee, Aimee... You should be well aware that this is a public forum where all can read and respond to whatever they so chose. If you want to go private with another poster then by all means do so, but when you post here it's all fair game. If you need more help in understanding how all this works, by all means, just ask. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:54 PM:

" professorssj: Do you often twist off this easily? I hope you don't teach a class on how to handle weapons. "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:45 PM:

" .
Ok, Ok .. I gotta make one other point:

AIMEE Wrote: "..the fact that you do not believe does not change the reality of the situation."

My dear, the fact of the matter is that just because you BLOG that you are an expert, doesn't FACTUALLY make you an expert. Hence, the fact that I do not believe is BASED ON FACT - and based on the ACTUAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION! "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:42 PM:

" .
TO AIMEE:
One last observation.. I think others here have caught on to the subtle point that you are somewhat self-promoting with regards to your education and background.

You sound like someone fresh out of college, who thinks their 4 to 6 years of academia make them more qualified than the rest of us "less educated" fools who have a lifetime of experience under our belts. "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:40 PM:

" .
TO AIMEE:
Oh, and ... your grasp of terms used on CSI:Miami is EXCELLENT! :) "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:39 PM:

" .
TO AIMEE:
I think you miss the greater point. Your legal education status really isn't of interest here. Most of us non legal-eagles probably agree that with regards to the law - in particular California - there isn't much common sense applied.

Where else can illegal immigrants come into a state and get MORE BENEFITS than those that live here (e.g. the discount their children are afforded for entry into colleges)?

This is a COMMON SENSE ISSUE, more than a legal one. Sometimes, a conservative legal advisory organization (such as Pacific Legal Foundation) is necessary to get California bureaucrats to see the trees through the forest. "

Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Aimee, I can discuss cookie and bread baking tips;)

Alright I can go quite indepth into the tricks, stratigies and marketing of homemade soaps and candles. "

Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:27 AM:

" However, I highly doubt that you would be able to engage in a scholarly discussion of time mechanics whereas I would be able to discuss the finer point of evidence submission in California and/or Federal courts (re: character evidence) or the difficult task of interpreting the US Constitution, depending on which school of thought you subscribe to. "

Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:24 AM:

" SportsGuru: That's fine if you don't believe me. Your disbelief is warranted due to the fact that you are unable to verify that it is true or not. Conversely, the fact that you do not believe does not change the reality of the situation.

Blog on...... "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:08 AM:

" .
Aimee:
My point was .. on the internet you can claim to be whatever you want to be. Just because you BLOG that you have a juris doctorate degree, doesn't mean that you don't work at McDonald's (and looked up "Juris Doctorate" on Wikipedia)....

Did I tell you I was a ghost writer for Steven Hawkings for his book "A Brief History Of Time", specifically the content on "Super String Theory" which attempts to explain all of the particles and fundamental forces of nature in one theory by modelling them as vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings?

You didn't know that???? "

Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Lodian: No, I wasn't joking.

You've failed to respond to my question-why do you care? Why did you feel compelled to respond to my post to SportsGuru? It wasn't addressed to you nor was it intended to be taken as an assertion of any superiority. He questioned my ability to give a legal opinion, I gave him the reason why I am capable of giving one. So, again, why do you care? Did I offend you in stating that I have a post-graduate education? "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:59 AM:

" .

http://www.innovativearms.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/STEYR.jpg "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:59 AM:

" .
TO LODIAN:

Yes, I own an Austrian-made Steyr GB 9mmm semi-automatic pistol that is no longer sold in the US.

I don't need the NRA to tell me how to handle a gun (break into my house and you'll find out!).

Besides, you missed my point entirely! "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:54 AM:

" .
I just noticed .. Section K of the code under which she suspended is poorly written and can be interpreted differently..

(k) Disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials, or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties.

I think the spirit of this would be more accurately reflected by adding one word:

(k) WILLFULLY disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors...

If you add that first WILLFULLY, I think it's clear she did nothing wrong unless she WILLFULLY disrupted school activities (not accidentally disrputed them) "

dyan wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Good point on the loaded gun question, Leonard. Case closed! "

Leonard wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:02 AM:

" I was reading the following and it made me think of this blog.

Palin's joint appearance last night with running mate John McCain on The CBS Evening News With Katie Couric was a public-relations disaster, conveying the impression of a father coming to the defense of his nave daughter who had gotten into trouble at school.

"I'm so proud of the work she is doing," said the beaming poppa.


http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080930_Couric_having_a_field_day.html "

professorssj wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:58 PM:

" Lodian- Again, I say, Mr. Fisher's teaching regarding safety with these deadly weapons needs to be reviewed before another class of children is given deadly weapons. This should be the very least that is done at Lodi Middle. --

of course you would say this... you have NO IDEA WHAT HIS SAFETY ROUTINE IS WITH THESE STUDENTS - not children- teenagers- with brains and common sense... or they should possess this anyway... and so should YOU!YOU HAVE ONLY HEARD ONE SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OF course this teenage is going to make it look like she is innocent.. she's not going to tell the newspaper that she screwed up and that's why her mom called them, so she could tell everyone she did. Her mom is trying to save face, keep up with the Joneses, and "fix" this for her daughter... heaven forbid her child should be less than perfect.

It's amazing how Elizabeth has changed her story and yet everyone blames the teacher even though NO ONE knows his!!! "

professorssj wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:55 PM:

" This should in part reflect on Fisher's training, supervision and safety procedures with his class/students-- HOW DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS??? YOU ARE ALL ONLY HEARING ONE SIDE AND AUTOMATICALLY ACCUSING THE TEACHER OF THE WRONGDOING.... You have no idea what he does or doesn't do in terms of safety. And, he's been there for years and never made the front page of the paper before for an incident.. ask yourself why a mother would call the press on this.. her "perfect" child (teenager) now has a blemish, but she did nothing wrong! Get real... come on everyone.. you have jumped to conclusions without knowing the other side... I hope a court is more forgiving should you have to come in front of one some day. We live in America, yes freedom of speech, but also due process and innocent until proven guilty... you have condemned the teacher... interesting! "

Leonard wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:35 PM:

" SportsGuru wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM:

Hey, Leonard
By your own logic... if your kid pointed a loaded gun at someone accidentally, the gun owner would go to jail.


Have you ever owned a gun? Are you at all familiar with the NRA's 3 Rules of Gun Safety?

I strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself with the contents of the following website.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 5:19 PM:

" Aimee: Oh, I see. So when you said "Actually, I have a juris doctorate degree."...you were actually joking. I should have known. "

Aimee wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:35 PM:

" Lodian: see SportGuru's post of Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM.

Why did you feel compelled to respond Lodian? Why do you care? "

Robb wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:11 PM:

" and... your point is?? "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:57 PM:

" Aimee wrote "SportsGuru: Actually, I have a juris doctorate degree."

Aimee: Why are you compelled to make sure we know this information? "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:53 PM:

" SportsGuru: How did you do it? You have me pegged perfectly! LOL!!! ;-) "

Aimee wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:32 PM:

" SportsGuru:

Actually, I have a juris doctorate degree. If you'd care to debate me on the finer points of the law, I'll be glad to oblige, "Your Honor". "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM:

" .
AIMEE Wrote:

My personal legal opinion..."

AND

..If memory serves, Lodian has stated that she is a current/former employee of LUSD.

For all we know, you are an Exotic Dancer and Lodian is a Dominatrix in real life.

So .. I guess I'll claim I am a California Supreme Court Justice, and that people should pay attention to my advice - and ignore yours - because (afterall) I am a Supreme Court Justice!

Sheesh ... "

SportsGuru wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM:

" .
LEONARD WROTE:
To my mind, pointing a half cocked bow at some one is just as bad as pointing an unloaded gun at them. If a child of mine did either of these things they would receive a punishment that would engrave the laws of safe weapons handling on their youthful mind for all time.

Hey, Leonard
By your own logic... if your kid pointed a loaded gun at someone accidentally, the gun owner would go to jail.

Who owned the bow and arrow and had responsibility for it's safe use? The girl's parents? I think not.... "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:52 PM:

" getreal: Try blogging again when you can take what you dish out. And until you can handle someone that disagrees with you maybe you should stick to your celebrity gossip rags. :-) "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:47 PM:

" getreal wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:23 PM:

" To Lodi Resident: Taking your advice. "

getreal: LOL! Sure, take the advice of someone that posts every few months (with another handle) only to make a nasty comment about another blogger and never adding anything to the topic being discussed. Great debate tactic getreal. Can't you handle the discussion when someone disagrees with you? Sorry it's too much for you. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:31 PM:

" anna macanas (Sep 26, 2008 8:27 AM): Well said. This should in part reflect on Fisher's training, supervision and safety procedures with his class/students. Time to make this a safer class activity and add some safety tips on those arrows. It's not a big deal and it sure couldn't hurt. Most weapons have a safety on them so why not the weapons these kids are using? They are, after all, in the hands of children. "

getreal wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:23 PM:

" To Lodi Resident: Taking your advice. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 PM:

" getreal wrote "This girl seems to be concerned that she had a "goody two shoe" rep. and is excited to be known as a rebel. Good luck Mr and Mrs. Sheriff, sounds like your daughter is searching for another kind of popularity."

getreal: This is inappropriate. Now you are trying to accuse this girl saying she did this on purpose? What is wrong with you? Everyone involved said they believe that this girl did not do anything wrong on purpose. So, what makes you believe you have the right to decide that she had a motive for what she was accused? I wonder if you write for a gossip rag or something because you can sure spin and twist a story. Shame on you as this is just a young girl. She doesn't need you to talk crap about her. Are you an adult? "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:13 PM:

" We've got bigger things to be concerned about today. The DOW is down 679 points.

Today has seen the biggest one day drop in history, down 735 points. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:06 PM:

" getreal: Even the brightest young person will make a mistake, especially when learning a new skill/activity. Also, just because someone has high academic marks does not necessarily mean they have such prowess in sports activities or weapons handling. This young girl had trouble with her bow and looked to the adult for help and guidance. "

getreal wrote on Sep 29, 2008 12:40 PM:

" LodiReaderFromStockton: you know what they say about asuming. The point is that someone this bright should be aware of simple safety procedures and should have been listening to the the saftey instruction part of this class Had she done this she would know the rules or very simply she was not paying attention. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Again, the safety procedures need to be reviewed for this archery class and safety tips need to be added to these arrows. Maybe this incident will help to make this class/activity safer while the kids learn to handle the bow and arrow. One must be prepared for kids to make a mistake when teaching a new activity. I think this has shown Lodi Middle (and everyone else) that there should be more safety measures taken in this class... just in case a kid makes a mistake while learning to handle this weapon. "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Leonard wrote "At what point should the girl be held accountable for her actions?"

When she wakes up in the morning!

One needs to keep in-mind that she's still a kid and not an adult.

A 13-year-old is responsible for her own actions, choices and mistakes. I do not say that this girl shouldn't be addressed regarding this incident. I do think the adult in charge of the instruction and supervision of the class needs to think about this incident himself. The problem here is that we don't have all the details or know those certain specifics that would allow us to form a better opinion on the matter. With what we know, I have a problem with just sending this girl home with a suspension. It does nothing to make sure she knows how to handle the bow and arrow, if in fact she actually had the darn thing pointed at the teacher as Fisher states. We all know now that all involved know the girl didn't do it on purpose, and mistakes should be expected from a kid. The reaction/decision from the teacher, admin and Douglas should be different than what they've-handed-down-as "punishment". "

Robb wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:14 AM:

" There is NO recourse for Poor judgment,
deal with it, move on....let it die... "

Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:07 AM:

" Aimee (8:38am): Your memory fails you. "

Lodian wrote on