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Lodi Middle School Student Elizabeth Nesbitt, 13, was suspended two-and-a-half days for accidentally pointing her bow and arrow at a teacher gym class. Also pictured is Nesbitt's mother, Jennifer. Brian Feulner/News-Sentinel)
Archery accident
Lodi girl suspended for pointing bow and arrow toward teacher; mother wants 'blemish' off daughter's school record
By Jennifer Bonnett
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Friday, September 26, 2008 6:20 AM PDT
A Lodi Middle student with a 4.0 grade-point average and plans for college has been suspended for pointing a loaded bow and arrow toward her physical education teacher during archery class.
Elizabeth Nesbitt, 13, has already served her two-and-half-day suspension, but her mother wants it off her school record, especially because, she said both the principal and teacher have told her they believe the incident was an accident.
"It's unreasonable for suspending her for something they feel was totally unintentional," Jennifer Nesbitt said Thursday after an unsuccessful meeting with Lodi Unified Associate Superintendent Odie Douglas.
"We are appalled and thoroughly disappointed in the teacher, principal and the higher-ups," she said. "I would have understood even failing her in archery, but this punishment affects her in her other six classes as well."
Last week, Elizabeth was among a group of students who lined up to practice shooting at targets with their bows and arrows. When hers was unusually tight, she turned to her teacher to ask for help in pulling it back and inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.
Since the arrow was already pulled back slightly, teacher Ron Fisher was concerned he would be shot, according to Nesbitt, who met with the teacher and principal the day after the incident.
But Elizabeth maintains she was pointing it toward the ground, not Fisher.
"I could barely pull back, like barely an inch," she said Thursday. "He said if I let it go he would have been punctured. If I would have let it go, it would have hit the ground."
Neither Fisher nor Lodi Middle Principal Marco Sanchez could be reached for comment.
Suspension at a glance
According to Lodi Unified School District, Elizabeth Nesbitt was suspended for violating state Education Code, section 48900:"A pupil shall not be suspended from school or recommended for expulsion, unless the superintendent or the principal of the school in which the pupil is enrolled determines that the pupil has committed an act as defined pursuant to any of subdivisions
"(k) Disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials, or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties."
Source: www.leginfo.ca.gov
At the time, Elizabeth said her teacher yelled her name, told her to put the bow and arrow on the floor and go straight to the office. She was to be suspended for five days, possibly even expelled for brandishing what is considered a deadly weapon.
"I was asking for help, not for (Fisher) to suspend me," Elizabeth said.
Nesbitt, who owns City Girl in Downtown Lodi, doesn't argue with the facts. She's fighting to get the suspension removed from her daughter's record. "The time is already lost," Nesbitt said of the suspension her daughter served last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. "I don't want this on her record. If it comes down to two students for a scholarship or to get into college, and she has this blemish ... "
The suspension form, provided to the News-Sentinel by Nesbitt, reads that: "Elizabeth pointed a loaded bow and arrow at Mr. Fisher during P.E. Two other students were also in the line of fire and were shaken up. Elizabeth was aware of the rules, however, displayed a lapse in judgment that could have resulted in serious injury or death. The act was unintentional according to the student."
The form is signed by Elizabeth Nesbitt and the school principal.
Nesbitt said the suspension has already threatened Elizabeth's membership in a scholarship club.
Elizabeth said she didn't know how she'd be treated when she returned to school Monday. "I feel like people thought of me as a goodie-two-shoes and then I get suspended."
She thinks a referral sent home to her parents for their signature would have been a fairer punishment.
Nesbitt and her husband John, a San Joaquin County Sheriff's deputy, decided not to punish their daughter because they believe it was an accident. There is no evidence the student was goofing off or not paying attention.
"She's a good kid. She never gets into trouble. She's active in her church," Nesbitt said, listing the reasons she feels the suspension was unfair.
Principal Sanchez reduced the original recommendation to just two-and-a-half days of suspension and told the Nesbitts that Elizabeth could have been expelled since she technically pointed a deadly weapon at someone. (Nesbitt disagrees, since the school put the so-called weapon in her child's hands.)
Associate Superintendent Douglas said he could not comment on any specific instance of student discipline.
He said his decision is the last step of suspension appeal.
"But any parent can go before the board — that's what open session is," he said.
Douglas said the only way a suspension can be removed from someone's record is if it can be proved that the incident did not take place as reported.
He would not comment if there have been any other incidents with Lodi Middle School's archery program, but did say the district has had to deal with other cases of students with dangerous items.
Contact reporter Jennifer Bonnett at jenniferb@lodinews.com.
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getreal wrote on Oct 7, 2008 10:49 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:59 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:49 PM:
That's not a bad idea, Rhodie! "
Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2008 2:46 PM:
Aimee wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:10 AM:
Aimee wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:10 AM:
If you were insinuating that Lodi Resident and I are the same person, think again. I know it's hard for you to believe that someone else other than myself would think that you are full of crap (because, of course, you could never be wrong) but just get it out of your head that I post on here under any other name but "Aimee". I am not Lodi Resident. You've beaten that old argument to death over the past few years and I can see it's still one of your favorites in your little annoying bag of tricks. I know in the past you've used this tactic for your personal amusement and to bolster your posts when people started attacking you, but some of us don't play those sorts of games. "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:23 AM:
Leonard Wrote:
"LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system."
Of course they don't. They have their hands full trying to administer their "diversity" program which takes about 20% of all district resources to manage - and it serves less than 2% of the student population.
That is a lot like the Mortgage Crisis in that the Clinton Administration put in place regulations that allowed PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO BE HOMEOWNERS into home mortgages. In this case, we have a large amount of resource being aimed at a small percentage of the student population. There will NEVER be a 0% sub-standard student rate, no matter how much $$$ you throw at the problem. LUSD needs to start dealing in reality - not Utopian feel-good policies. "
Rhodie wrote on Oct 3, 2008 8:18 AM:
" Hey. The terrorists are coming to get us at any moment."
That could be why the Middle-schoolers are learning to defend themselves.
An interesting question occurs to me here: Would a school sponsered (like during PE) self defense course make sense in today's day and age? Especially for the girls with the stats out on how many of them are likely to be attacked. I'm not sure if I would support our schools teaching our kids to be warriors, MMA fighters or such, but the basics of self defense sounds like an interesting idea. Then you can point your fist at someone without worrying about it slipping or going off and hitting someone across the yard. "
dyan wrote on Oct 3, 2008 7:33 AM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 4:13 PM:
Aimee wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:54 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:26 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:24 PM:
" Leonard, Excellent post!! Good ol accountability! "
Gator: How is this kid not being accountable if she truly knows she did not point a weapon at the teacher? "
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:23 PM:
Q: "LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system. Do you want to have your taxes raised so that every case of detention can go through a 6 month appeals process?"
You state that the LUSD has a lack of resources, but this would be no excuse to disallow a student/family to appeal the decision of a teacher/admin when they feel it is serious enough to take it through the appeals process. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 2:18 PM:
Q:"Why? The kid broke the rules and she suffered the consequences."
A: I think this warrants a further look. There's a difference in accounts on what actually happened. All agree that this is not a "problem" student. She should have her day in front of the board. She already did serve her time and did what she was told. She has the right to be heard.
Q:"Do you think that every kid who gets suspended should have their case reviewed before some sort of appeals board?"
A: It depends on the case, but if there is an incident that looks serious enough to the parties involved then they have the right to appeal. That is the process. One size does not fit all. This punishment seems like the wrong choice for this student.
continued... "
Aimee wrote on Oct 2, 2008 1:54 PM:
and
"...She just seems to enjoy these childish "hit and run" attacks....then, of course, she changes her handle again and blogs on."
What are you trying to insinuate, Lodian? Please, tell those of us that aren't "savvy" enough to "do the math". "
Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2008 12:53 PM:
Leonard wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:23 AM:
" Leonard: Any incident regarding weapons handling in a class at school and a student should be reviewed in full when a teacher feels a suspension action is warranted.
Why? The kid broke the rules and she suffered the consequences.
Do you think that every kid who gets suspended should have their case reviewed before some sort of appeals board?
LUSD has neither the manpower nor the resources to set up such a system. Do you want to have your taxes raised so that every case of detention can go through a 6 month appeals process? "
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:15 AM:
If the teacher feels this incident warrants a suspension then it shouldn't stop there. All procedures should be reviewed especially since the accused says there was no intent and states that the bow was not directed at anyone. I have a feeling that there is more to this story. And we need to remember that a newspaper does not always have every detail exact. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 11:00 AM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2008 10:45 AM:
No way! LOL! Seriously, I don't think so. Lodi Resident only seems to show up and do a hit and run on me, and back up Aimee, so you do the math. :-) Hmmm. "
Lodi Resident wrote on Oct 2, 2008 8:12 AM:
The difference is that if you check the frequency of my posts and compare to the frequency of your posts, you will see that I visit infrequently. You and Lodian, on the other hand, waste your little lives here.
LR "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 2, 2008 8:02 AM:
LODI RESIDENT writes:
"Can you not see that they have nothing better to do than hang out here at the LNS blogosphere?"
I always get a chuckle out of people who bash other people's participation in blogging, while at the same time blogging themselves!
I guess that can only mean that persons with such an outlook only believe their opinions should be expressed in the Blogosphere, and that anyone else with a differing opinion simply have "nothing better to do".
Based on this observation (only Lodi Resident's opinions are worthy of blogging) ... I'd wager that Lodi Resident is a Liberal Democrat. Am I right? "
Lodi Resident wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:40 PM:
Why do you engage Lodian and Sportsguru (what an idiotic self-serving handle)?
Can you not see that they have nothing better to do than hang out here at the LNS blogosphere?
Seriously, you are right...they are wrong...move on. "
Leonard wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:15 PM:
She was instructed not to point the weapon at a person.
She pointed the weapon at a person.
To me, these are the relevant facts and they seem to be quite clear. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:58 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:56 PM:
" Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM:
" At this point I hope Elizabeth Nesbitt takes this issue to the board. I'd be interested to know the outcome.
If the board backs up the teacher will you be satisfied with the outcome? "
Probably. I'd be interested to hear their comments on this and see how they handle it. Hopefully this will not be brushed off as just some kid's side of the story and blindly back the teacher's version of the events. I expect the board to listen carefully and take all into consideration with respect given to both parties. "
Leonard wrote on Oct 1, 2008 6:17 PM:
" At this point I hope Elizabeth Nesbitt takes this issue to the board. I'd be interested to know the outcome.
If the board backs up the teacher will you be satisfied with the outcome? "
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:15 PM:
SportsGuru: You said it. Yep, Aimee is a law student. LOL! "
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:14 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 4:12 PM:
"How does it feel to approach your golden years knowing that the only worthwhile and meaningful thing you've ever done is raise children to adulthood?"
"I thinh your devotion to Lodian is touching. Does your wife know?"
To Aimee...
Seriously, Aimee, attacking someone's marriage and stating such disrespect for the raising of healthy productive children to adulthood are not the comments from a very intelligent person of good character. Are you happy with the path you have taken in your life? Then why attack another's marriage and the pride they have in raising children?
Perhaps you could take on some level of respect for families. Nothing here has warranted such an attack on another's marriage and the pride of raising their children. I think it's really sad that you have a hard time debating an issue without attacking marriages and children. When you seem to be losing the debate you start in with the personal attacks on marriage and children. That is all too telling of your character. Maybe you are proud of that characteristic, but no one here is impressed. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 3:47 PM:
I believe that you and I are the same in one aspect: we're both honest and would like people to take us at our word because we speak the truth. You strike me as a hard-working man who is proud of the things he has been able to accomplish over the years. Of course, as you stated, there's no proving this without revealing who we are on this board, which is not a good idea. We can call a truce to this nonsense and go on or keep it going. Bygones? "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 3:23 PM:
AIMEE,
You are the MASTER of nonsense! Through all your blather, the fact still remains (whether it is my factual family, or someone elses)...
My point was that there is NOTHING MORE HONORABLE to do than choose to RAISE YOUR CHILDREN as a career. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:39 PM:
DeltaPenguin: I agree. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 2:01 PM:
And wrote againm on October 1: "It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living."
Hmmm, let me think.....nope, still not offended. LOL! "
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 1:48 PM:
Your assertions that "I have raised three children, all honor students, all exemplary citizens, and all attending college (and other statements I chose to not reproduce for the sake of brevity)" really can't be believed. I mean, after all, certainly even you recognize that "...the fact of the matter is that just because you BLOG that you (have raised educated and productive children), doesn't FACTUALLY mean that (you have raised educated and productive children). Hence, the fact that I do not believe is BASED ON FACT -and based on the ACTUAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION!"
Remember, this is a site where people post anonymously-heck, you could be a California Supreme Court Justice for all I know.
Honestly, we just can't believe anything that people post about their personal selves on here, there's just no proof that it is true. "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:41 PM:
BTW, this was more sarcasm...
"It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living." "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:39 PM:
So, AIMEE
Now that you've opened the can of worms, I'll spill it.
I personally have no problem with Obama, McCain and Palin pursuing a career ... so long as their significant others are primarily focused on raising their children. SOMEONE has to bring home the bacon.
In my family, I play that role. My wife left her career and raised our children. We sacrificed a lot to do that, but our investment in our children has paid off a HUNDRED FOLD.
I have a friend who is in the opposite position. He stays home with the kids, and his wife works. Either way, the kids get what they need.
Perhaps your parent's didn't make that sacrifice for you when you were growing up. If true, that would explain why perhaps you can't grasp that concept. "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 12:34 PM:
AIMEE, you have a lot of growing up to do. My point was that there is NOTHING MORE HONORABLE to do than choose to RAISE YOUR CHILDREN as a career.
I pity you if you only measure your self worth by what "Job Title" you hold, or what "Pay Grade" you achieve.
That isn't what life is about.
How do I know?
I have raised three children, all honor students, all exemplary citizens, and all attending college.
Like it or not - your resume (a Juris Doctorate) pales in comparison to that achievement.
And I find it interesting that you would criticize my points, while at the same time lobbing a childish comment laced with sexual innuendo - by mentioning my wife.
If your arguments don't stand on their merits, then let them lie. You don't have to pull a "Clinton" by attacking the messenger. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:30 AM:
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 11:27 AM:
Your insults and assumptions don't bother me in the least. If you were trying to offend me, you fell very short of the mark.
I thinh your devotion to Lodian is touching. Does your wife know? "
sportsguru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:56 AM:
WOW, we were right on the mark with the "condescending" label for Aimee...
AIMEE WROTE:
"How does it feel to approach your golden years knowing that the only worthwhile and meaningful thing you've ever done is raise children to adulthood?"
Dear Aimee,
There is nothing MORE WORTHWHILE AND MEANINGFUL than to have raised a child to adulthood.
I pity your children (if you have any), your husband (if you have one), or both. If you have neither, I suggest you keep it that way. "
SportsGuru wrote on Oct 1, 2008 10:02 AM:
AIMEE Wrote:
"Lodian and SportsGuru claim NOT to care about my educational status yet look at all their posts referring to the subject! Funny!"
Our posts are known as SARCASM. You would think that someone with a Juris Doctorate would recognize sarcasm when they saw it, but apparently not. Sarcasm is a biting form of wit.
But I forget - a Juris Doctorate would mean you are leaning towards being a lawyer, and there is nothing funny about being a lawyer. It's not fun chasing ambulances and conducting quests for people who have had bad reactions to prescription drugs as a living. "
DeltaPenguin wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:24 AM:
Sometimes, when a fire occurs and it is unintentional, the person who set the fire still gets burned.
In this case, (all why does the school allow this arguments set aside), a mistake was made that could have ended in a fatal, or serious injury. Let this die. Because of the seriousness of the error on your daughter's part, she was made an example.
The universities will not give a rip about this incident when it is her time to enter. You have now brought much more upon her and your family then a measly 2 day suspension.
Just let it rest.
As for the school, this would be a good time to review current policies and how they can affect everyone involved. "
DeltaPenguin wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:12 AM:
I admittedly topped reading after viewing one of your comments mid-blog. It ticked me off enough to just address that...
I am trying to figure out why you are concerned about this going away and why you would tell people to mind their own business.
The family chose to bring this to public attention. Any flack received as a result of their poor decision is on them, not the posters here.
It will go away in time. Contacting the paper to try and appeal to the public was a poor decision for the parents to make. Shame on them for bringing this type of attention on their daughter.
Whether or not the act was intentional does not concern me. However, based upon the family's poor judgment in bringing this public, it brings to question just how far the apple fell from the tree. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 1, 2008 9:10 AM:
You spend much of your time on here blogging but I have YET to see you post anything remotely intelligent and probing. You answer questions with more questions. You post irrelevant observations about nothing in particular. You only agree with the more intelligent posts of our more thoughtful bloggers instead of creating your own. You engage other posters at random with your sharp words when they don't deserve your unkind words. At one time, you had multiple handles simply for your own amusement. In short, you're simply a middle-aged rabble-rousing woman who has the superiority complex who spends most, if not all, of her time on this site. Sad. "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:14 PM:
This is one change I would make to the education system. I think all students should have to take an creative outlet course every year. Be it music, drawing, writing, photography and painting even fasion design. How many kids would be better off if they had an outlet to express themselves through?
Unfortunately budget cuts have made the focus of schools to feeding the mind rather than nurishing it. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:27 PM:
I have no doubt! LOL! "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 5:25 PM:
Aimee: It's not your "educational status" that begs a response. It's your superior attitude and insistence on pretending that, whatever your educational background, you seem to think it makes you superior on a public forum in a blog debate/conversation. THAT, oh Aimee, is what is so funny. You ask for it yet you still don't get it. It's okay, dear. Maybe time and maturity will teach you what you need to know. Someday you will learn that the degree you hold does not make you an intelligent person. There's a lot more to it than that, Aimee. When one has to boast of their credentials, whether they are real of not, then that is when ya know they are full of sh!t. LOL! Learn to laugh at yourself Aimee. "
Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:03 PM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:58 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:55 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:39 PM:
TO LODIAN:
I think I have made it CRYSTAL CLEAR to everyone here that you are a professional Dominatrix. Let's not try to pretend otherwise!!! :D "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:58 PM:
Robb wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:54 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:40 PM:
I had more fun teaching the classes than writing about it anyway. As I said here before I talk better than I write on non-fiction. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:15 PM:
Aimee: Okay, so you're not the sharpest tack, but did you really not understand that the point was that we do not care what you state as your background. It doesn't mean a thing here on the boards. You see, Aimee, you are as anonymous as any one of us. FYI, you have absolutely no idea who I am either. You only know what I have chosen to post here on these blogs. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:08 PM:
" Aimee, I can discuss cookie and bread baking tips;)
Alright I can go quite indepth into the tricks, stratigies and marketing of homemade soaps and candles. "
Cool! Can I get a catalog? ;-) "
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 2:06 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 30, 2008 1:54 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:45 PM:
Ok, Ok .. I gotta make one other point:
AIMEE Wrote: "..the fact that you do not believe does not change the reality of the situation."
My dear, the fact of the matter is that just because you BLOG that you are an expert, doesn't FACTUALLY make you an expert. Hence, the fact that I do not believe is BASED ON FACT - and based on the ACTUAL REALITY OF THE SITUATION! "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:42 PM:
TO AIMEE:
One last observation.. I think others here have caught on to the subtle point that you are somewhat self-promoting with regards to your education and background.
You sound like someone fresh out of college, who thinks their 4 to 6 years of academia make them more qualified than the rest of us "less educated" fools who have a lifetime of experience under our belts. "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:40 PM:
TO AIMEE:
Oh, and ... your grasp of terms used on CSI:Miami is EXCELLENT! :) "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:39 PM:
TO AIMEE:
I think you miss the greater point. Your legal education status really isn't of interest here. Most of us non legal-eagles probably agree that with regards to the law - in particular California - there isn't much common sense applied.
Where else can illegal immigrants come into a state and get MORE BENEFITS than those that live here (e.g. the discount their children are afforded for entry into colleges)?
This is a COMMON SENSE ISSUE, more than a legal one. Sometimes, a conservative legal advisory organization (such as Pacific Legal Foundation) is necessary to get California bureaucrats to see the trees through the forest. "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 30, 2008 12:35 PM:
Alright I can go quite indepth into the tricks, stratigies and marketing of homemade soaps and candles. "
Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:27 AM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:24 AM:
Blog on...... "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:08 AM:
Aimee:
My point was .. on the internet you can claim to be whatever you want to be. Just because you BLOG that you have a juris doctorate degree, doesn't mean that you don't work at McDonald's (and looked up "Juris Doctorate" on Wikipedia)....
Did I tell you I was a ghost writer for Steven Hawkings for his book "A Brief History Of Time", specifically the content on "Super String Theory" which attempts to explain all of the particles and fundamental forces of nature in one theory by modelling them as vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings?
You didn't know that???? "
Aimee wrote on Sep 30, 2008 10:04 AM:
You've failed to respond to my question-why do you care? Why did you feel compelled to respond to my post to SportsGuru? It wasn't addressed to you nor was it intended to be taken as an assertion of any superiority. He questioned my ability to give a legal opinion, I gave him the reason why I am capable of giving one. So, again, why do you care? Did I offend you in stating that I have a post-graduate education? "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:59 AM:
http://www.innovativearms.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/STEYR.jpg "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:59 AM:
TO LODIAN:
Yes, I own an Austrian-made Steyr GB 9mmm semi-automatic pistol that is no longer sold in the US.
I don't need the NRA to tell me how to handle a gun (break into my house and you'll find out!).
Besides, you missed my point entirely! "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:54 AM:
I just noticed .. Section K of the code under which she suspended is poorly written and can be interpreted differently..
(k) Disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors, teachers, administrators, school officials, or other school personnel engaged in the performance of their duties.
I think the spirit of this would be more accurately reflected by adding one word:
(k) WILLFULLY disrupted school activities or otherwise willfully defied the valid authority of supervisors...
If you add that first WILLFULLY, I think it's clear she did nothing wrong unless she WILLFULLY disrupted school activities (not accidentally disrputed them) "
dyan wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:04 AM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 30, 2008 4:02 AM:
Palin's joint appearance last night with running mate John McCain on The CBS Evening News With Katie Couric was a public-relations disaster, conveying the impression of a father coming to the defense of his nave daughter who had gotten into trouble at school.
"I'm so proud of the work she is doing," said the beaming poppa.
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080930_Couric_having_a_field_day.html "
professorssj wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:58 PM:
of course you would say this... you have NO IDEA WHAT HIS SAFETY ROUTINE IS WITH THESE STUDENTS - not children- teenagers- with brains and common sense... or they should possess this anyway... and so should YOU!YOU HAVE ONLY HEARD ONE SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OF course this teenage is going to make it look like she is innocent.. she's not going to tell the newspaper that she screwed up and that's why her mom called them, so she could tell everyone she did. Her mom is trying to save face, keep up with the Joneses, and "fix" this for her daughter... heaven forbid her child should be less than perfect.
It's amazing how Elizabeth has changed her story and yet everyone blames the teacher even though NO ONE knows his!!! "
professorssj wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:55 PM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 29, 2008 6:35 PM:
Hey, Leonard
By your own logic... if your kid pointed a loaded gun at someone accidentally, the gun owner would go to jail.
Have you ever owned a gun? Are you at all familiar with the NRA's 3 Rules of Gun Safety?
I strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself with the contents of the following website.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 5:19 PM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:35 PM:
Why did you feel compelled to respond Lodian? Why do you care? "
Robb wrote on Sep 29, 2008 4:11 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:57 PM:
Aimee: Why are you compelled to make sure we know this information? "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:53 PM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:32 PM:
Actually, I have a juris doctorate degree. If you'd care to debate me on the finer points of the law, I'll be glad to oblige, "Your Honor". "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:20 PM:
AIMEE Wrote:
My personal legal opinion..."
AND
..If memory serves, Lodian has stated that she is a current/former employee of LUSD.
For all we know, you are an Exotic Dancer and Lodian is a Dominatrix in real life.
So .. I guess I'll claim I am a California Supreme Court Justice, and that people should pay attention to my advice - and ignore yours - because (afterall) I am a Supreme Court Justice!
Sheesh ... "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 29, 2008 3:15 PM:
LEONARD WROTE:
To my mind, pointing a half cocked bow at some one is just as bad as pointing an unloaded gun at them. If a child of mine did either of these things they would receive a punishment that would engrave the laws of safe weapons handling on their youthful mind for all time.
Hey, Leonard
By your own logic... if your kid pointed a loaded gun at someone accidentally, the gun owner would go to jail.
Who owned the bow and arrow and had responsibility for it's safe use? The girl's parents? I think not.... "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:52 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:47 PM:
" To Lodi Resident: Taking your advice. "
getreal: LOL! Sure, take the advice of someone that posts every few months (with another handle) only to make a nasty comment about another blogger and never adding anything to the topic being discussed. Great debate tactic getreal. Can't you handle the discussion when someone disagrees with you? Sorry it's too much for you. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:31 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:23 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 PM:
getreal: This is inappropriate. Now you are trying to accuse this girl saying she did this on purpose? What is wrong with you? Everyone involved said they believe that this girl did not do anything wrong on purpose. So, what makes you believe you have the right to decide that she had a motive for what she was accused? I wonder if you write for a gossip rag or something because you can sure spin and twist a story. Shame on you as this is just a young girl. She doesn't need you to talk crap about her. Are you an adult? "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:13 PM:
Today has seen the biggest one day drop in history, down 735 points. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:06 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 29, 2008 12:40 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:45 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:29 AM:
When she wakes up in the morning!
One needs to keep in-mind that she's still a kid and not an adult.
A 13-year-old is responsible for her own actions, choices and mistakes. I do not say that this girl shouldn't be addressed regarding this incident. I do think the adult in charge of the instruction and supervision of the class needs to think about this incident himself. The problem here is that we don't have all the details or know those certain specifics that would allow us to form a better opinion on the matter. With what we know, I have a problem with just sending this girl home with a suspension. It does nothing to make sure she knows how to handle the bow and arrow, if in fact she actually had the darn thing pointed at the teacher as Fisher states. We all know now that all involved know the girl didn't do it on purpose, and mistakes should be expected from a kid. The reaction/decision from the teacher, admin and Douglas should be different than what they've-handed-down-as "punishment". "
Robb wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:14 AM:
deal with it, move on....let it die... "
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:07 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 29, 2008 10:05 AM:
I absolutely agree. "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 29, 2008 9:59 AM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:38 AM:
My personal legal opinion is that the parents should just let this issue die and go on with their lives--their effort to do so may already be in progress. This issue is not deserving of any time in court, although the adminstrative appeal is available should they choose to utilize it.
Professorssj wrote: "Unless you know them, you have NO right to judge them... what do you do? Are you a parent? Have you ever volunteered in your child's classroom to witness first-hand the challenges that educators face today????? "
If memory serves, Lodian has stated that she is a current/former employee of LUSD and a frequent contributor (blogger) to any LNS article that has to do with teens. "
sam wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:04 AM:
Well said, Leonard. "
sam wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:03 AM:
I am sorry this young lady could not follow directions. I have a feeling all this drama will result in the program being pulled.
I loved PE. I remember being exposed to so many different sports and loving it. "
Leonard wrote on Sep 29, 2008 5:25 AM:
" Bottom line in this discussion:
Children should not be using weapons that are very dangerous as a Physical activity!
Not at all. There is no reason that children can't learn to shoot bows in PE as long as they are well instructed, closely monitored and strictly disciplined. "
bumblebee wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:11 PM:
Paragraph 20:"Principal Sanchez reduced the original recommendation to just two-and-a-half days of suspension and told the Nesbitts that Elizabeth could have been expelled since she technically pointed a deadly weapon at someone. (Nesbitt disagrees, since the school put the so-called weapon in her child's hands.)" "
getreal wrote on Sep 28, 2008 9:01 PM:
bumblebee wrote on Sep 28, 2008 8:31 PM:
Those uses are not the intention of the Object. A baseball bat is made to play a game with, and a pencil is made as a writing utensil.
And as I stated before the main purpose of a bow and arrow is to use it as a weapon. "
OTH wrote on Sep 28, 2008 8:25 PM:
A baseball bat can be used as a weapon. A pencil as well. Being slammed in the head with a baseball bat or stabbed with a pencil can hurt. The pencil won't hurt you depending on where you're stabbed but a baseball bat can do major damage if not kill someone with one swing. "
roni95242 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 8:13 PM:
This person seems to know A LOT OF DETAILS about the incident.
Why REAL bows and arrows why not the ones that have velcro to ensure that NO ONE gets hurt??
According to teachers they have big classes ( NOT conducive for bows and arrows) What about the Principal? (another crappy principal followed by the former crappy Principals @ Lodi Middle who have now been promoted to the D.O. and Odie these guys are making the big bucks let them handle this THEY WONT!!! "
bumblebee wrote on Sep 28, 2008 7:45 PM:
Children should not be using weapons that are very dangerous as a Physical activity!
LUSD Gave a minor(under the age of 18) a "weapon" yes people it is a weapon.
A baseball bat or pencil is not a weapon. The purpose of a bow and arrow is to "shoot" a target or hunt prey not to write on paper or to hit a baseball.
This Child should have never been put in this situation and LUSD would be smart to remove it from their academic program along with Miss. Nesbitt's suspension. Because in my personal opinion it seems like a huge liability that in the future could cost the district millions of dollars! "
Leonard wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:40 PM:
If the teacher feels this bright young lady made a dangerous move, and also knows she did not do it by screwing around or anything, then it may be time to reevaluate the safety portion of the class. Just don't punish this kid with suspension and not look over the whole picture here.
At what point should the girl be held accountable for her actions?
If she had fully drawn the bow?
If she had actually accidentally shot someone?
If, heaven forbid, she had actually killed someone?
The rule is simplicity itself. In fact, it is so simple that even a 4.0 student with plans for college like Miss Nesbitt ought to have been able to understand them.
If she didn't, I can only assume that she wasn't paying attention. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:48 PM:
What rant? LOL! "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:46 PM:
professorssj: Wow! It's time you get out to the school more often. There are some good teachers at Lodi Middle and there are really bad teachers at Lodi Middle, IMO. These bad teachers can set a kid back, and that's not a good thing right before they go off to high school. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:22 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:22 PM:
The LUSD GATE program needs to be revamped as it does not serve the highly gifted students in this district as it should. We have been over this already, on other blogs, and you know my position. I see that you are being flip and accusatory in trying to start something, but the fact is that there are too many kids in GATE/Elkhorn that are not gifted. They may be sharp and they are high achievers, but they are not in the gifted range. That is very hard for some parents to hear. It seems "gifted" just means a good student these days through the LUSD. I know some kids at Elkhorn right now that ARE highly gifted and they are bored out of their minds because there are too many reg ed students in their classes that the teacher must teach to everyday. This is really sad. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:12 PM:
Leonard: I believe that when one is teaching/training a young kid how to handle a weapon then one must take great responsibility and care in that training. Kids are not adults and they do not have the same maturity and wherewithal an adult may have when understanding the capabilities and seriousness of handling a weapon.
If the teacher feels this bright young lady made a dangerous move, and also knows she did not do it by screwing around or anything, then it may be time to reevaluate the safety portion of the class. Just don't punish this kid with suspension and not look over the whole picture here. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:01 PM:
Sending this kid home doesn't do a thing to teach where she may have went wrong anyway. In this girls case, she turned to seek out her teacher's help. Maybe she unknowingly raised the bow and maybe it was turned towards the ground. No one here knows for sure. If the teacher feels it was a dangerous move then he needs to go over safety all over again, remembering they-are-kids. And maybe have this young lady go over the safety procedures for the class.
I think this suspension "punishment" is too harsh. More needs to be directed towards reviewing safety instruction and procedures. I'm thinking that if this kid can make a mistake then surely there are others at Lodi Middle that can really screw up. Get-some-safety tips-on-those-arrows! "
Lodian wrote on Sep 28, 2008 4:37 PM:
No.
Leonard: I believe that the teacher instructed the kids not to point the weapon at anyone. "
s & W 500 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 4:25 PM:
Bows are just as deadly as a gun! The teacher should have given better instructions on what to do in the event of a problem.
Good luck to all involved, but we have more important issues in front of us all! "
Leonard wrote on Sep 28, 2008 7:34 AM:
" Leonard: Sorry I missed your earlier post. You made good comments. I think a gun being brought to the school by a student is much different than a student being given a bow & arrow by the teacher for a PE activity.
I'm not talking about bringing a gun to school, I am talking about the basic rules of weapons handling in any context.
I am confused by some of what you have said here. Are you contending that the students were not told not to point the weapons at people? "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 28, 2008 12:52 AM:
And i know from our discussions that you think Elkhorn is a joke that should be closed down. So, in your opinion, which middle school is the best in the district? Why? "
Lodian wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:41 PM:
I know it's rather old school, but if a teacher thinks the kid did something wrong then make her do something to make up for it that relates to the incident. Not many kids learn a thing by being sent home. Have the girl do the set-up and clean-up. Have her do something after school involving the archery equipment etc. After all, it's all about teaching. This would make her spend more time away from what she may prefer doing and she would also learn more about archery and how safe one must be when handling such a weapon. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:05 PM:
Lodi Resident wrote on Sep 27, 2008 5:14 PM:
I don't understand why you engage Lodian. You will never have a meaningful dialogue. Lodian simply answers questions with questions.
Also, Lodian had been posting on these boards 24/7 for the past 12 months.
Lodian needs to get out and enjoy our beautiful community and all it has to offer. "
Mrs. S. wrote on Sep 27, 2008 3:02 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 27, 2008 3:02 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:33 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:33 PM:
danielH wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:25 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 27, 2008 2:15 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 27, 2008 1:49 PM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 1:00 PM:
" How exactly is an idiot driving a fast car relavent to this? As for whoever asked if I am a parent.
Well, it speaks to the issue of parents who try to insure that their children never have to face the consequences of their actions. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:50 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:49 PM:
You have a large class of students- Lodi Middle is growing with HUGE class sizes in PE... and you have to control the students, using rules and regulations and ramifications for them... you spend weeks teaching safety and proper use of the equipment, testing students on this and insuring that all students know the rules and the ramifications... accident or not.
One student isn't paying attention, points the bow at you and is unintentionally aiming at you, you shout for the student to point to the ground, several times, other students are upset and YOU must enforce the rules. Although the ramification is a week suspension, you reduce it given that this is a good student. You feel you are being generous.
The next week, a newspaper article comes out. There is not interview of you, your take on the incident, just the teenager's parent's side of the story... and the reader opinion of those who don't know the real story is to skewer and bbq you... "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:33 PM:
Yes, I'm a parent, I have raised 3 children, I have volunteered in their schools, their sports, all of it.
I'm not saying educators don't have it hard and don't have some serious issues to deal with. This story IMO is a miniscule problem compared to what they have to deal with.
She wasn't mad at the teacher and pointing the arrow at him because he pissed her off, she wasn't trying to harm him, she wasn't trying to be funny. She was aking for help.
As for her "changing her story" and signing the paper, come on you have to remember how intimidating the principan can be. Of course when threatened with expulsion (ludacris IMO) she's going to agree to a small suspension.
I really don't think the poor girl did anything wrong. And I am NOT one of those parents who say "OH, not MY baby!!!" My kids have been in trouble before and when that happened they had to face the punishment (never anything violent or real serious)... "
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:10 PM:
SOMERSET, NJIn what local authorities are calling a "near tragedy," Charles Wentworth, a 17-year-old Rutgers Preparatory senior and member of the affluent Wentworth family, came perilously close to suffering a consequence resulting from his own wrongdoing Saturday.
Enlarge Image Teen
Wentworth made his senior photo shoot even after coming within inches of an actual repercussion from the accident.
Wentworth, reportedly ignoring the protests of his classmates, got behind the wheel of his turbocharged Supra 2000GT after consuming half the contents of a bottle of Goldschlger at a friend's party. While driving westbound on Route 27, a disoriented Wentworth drifted across two lanes of traffic and collided with a minivan carrying a family of four, bringing the teen face-to-face with a potentially life-altering lesson.
Wentworth escaped unscathed and unpunished, however, when his airbags deployed and a team of high-powered attorneys rushed to the scene and rescued him from the brink of personal responsibility.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/wealthy_teen_nearly_experiences "
professorssj wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:59 AM:
Unless you know them, you have NO right to judge them... what do you do? Are you a parent? Have you ever volunteered in your child's classroom to witness first-hand the challenges that educators face today????? "
professorssj wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:56 AM:
She asked for help with a loaaded bow and arrow pointed at her teacher's head!!!!!! What part of this don't you understand?
Yes, it absolutely is her fault, accident or not, it is her fault! She knew the rules- never point a loaded arrow at anyone... she contradicts her story- one point saying she pointed it at the teacher, then switches to say it was pointed to the ground!
If the ramifications for breaking the rules were a five-day suspension, of which the student was fully aware, and it was reduced to 2, then the school and teacher were being QUITE generous in their penalty.
Yes, it absolutely is coddling... and shame on the parents for putting their child, now in a position of being ridiculed for her parents going to the press for this. The parents should have used the appropriate avenues and vehicles.. how many other parents are now calling the press because their child (and she's a teenager), didn't like the grade they received. "
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:18 AM:
I was suspended a couple of times in eight grade for fighting of all things and I had no problem whatsoever getting into the competitive college of my choice. "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 27, 2008 11:16 AM:
You actually made the point for us that she shouldn't be in trouble. This is something they gave to the students (God only knows why) and the teacher is obviously an overreactor who needs to rethink his carreer choice IMO.
She did not do anything malicious or wrong here. She was aking for help. The fact she was sent to the office amazes me I would have thought the pricipal would have been smart enough to let her go and tell the teacher he needs to calm down.
Again, you Lodi people should be questioning the fact that these are the people you are entrusting your kids' education to. "
Oh Bull ! wrote on Sep 27, 2008 10:33 AM:
Winston Wallace wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:40 AM:
Gator wrote on Sep 27, 2008 8:00 AM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:50 AM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:48 AM:
" There was a kid at the high school last year that ran across the quad at lunch and started beating on another kid, ON PURPOSE, with intent to do great harm. The bigger kid was just hammering on the smaller kid. The aggressor got a 3 day suspension. HUH? So, this 13 year old girl at Lodi Middle committed an offense as great as the kid that beat up another?
Again, I ask you, how would you have treated this if the weapon in question were a gun instead of a bow? "
Leonard wrote on Sep 27, 2008 7:47 AM:
" I don't think we have all the details. There's even a difference in stories between the people involved. It's not an unusual thing for the story in a newspaper to not be exactly what happened.
If the preposterous photo accompanying the article is not enough evidence of bias, I don't know what is.
Perhaps they could have included an artists rendering of the teacher killing some adorable puppies? "
gray cloud wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:24 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:14 AM:
getreal: Can't you discuss this topic with respect and maturity? So, what exactly am I in denial about...in your opinion? "
getreal wrote on Sep 27, 2008 12:00 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:27 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:23 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:12 PM:
"Your name?"
Lodian
"You seem so ignorant?"
What do you think I am ignorant about? "
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:09 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:08 PM:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/60minutes/main3475200.shtml "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:00 PM:
get real... no it's not Fisher. I am, however, in education, a professor, and I am a parent. And, I am sick of the naivite and ignorance of the general public and the coddling of our kids and disrespect of those who are trying to do what is right.
Your name? You seem so ignorant? "
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:51 PM:
You seem so incredibly angry. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:27 PM:
Shame on you Lodi News Sentinal! "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:42 PM:
Would you reprimand a 13-year old who knew better, who knew the rules?????
And, had he not, what might have happened?
Had he or a student been shot inadvertently, this story would be about a different parent whose child was shot because another kid wasn't paying attention... the school would be sued... and if the instructor was shot... who would be suing whom???? "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:39 PM:
inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.
inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.
inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.
inadvertently pointed it at him, Nesbitt said.
Nesbitt said she inadvertently pointed the bow at him... then changed her story for this reporter to say it was pointed at the ground... it is not Fisher's story that keeps changing here... it is hers!!!!!!!!!
READ THE STORY!!!!!! "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:36 PM:
AS A PARENT I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU... AS A PARENT, IT IS THE 13-YEAR OLD'S RESPONSIBILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES AND THE RAMIFICATIONS>.. that is the problem with our society... we treat 13 year olds like they are 5... they are not... they are fully aware and able to comprehend the difference between right and wrong... parents who "coddle' their kids are doing them such a disservice... did you know there are parents who are completing college applications, job applications, and resumes for their adult kids... and even going to interviews with them, calling in sick for them to work.... WE LIVE IN A RIDICULOUS AGE... I grew up where falling on your face taught you something.. you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps... and certainly with the loving support of family... but not the coddling. And my generation produced some of the greatest minds, leaders, problem solvers of any generation... babying a 13-year old will not teach her anything. This teacher was MORE THAN FAIR!!!! "
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:31 PM:
professorssj: I think if a kid did something of a similar nature out in public you would be all over the parent/adult/guardian of this kid. You would blame the adult. You would be saying - where is the adult here - why did they allow this to happen - aren't they teaching this kid to behave and conduct themselves properly? Am I right?
This girl said she did not point the bow & arrow at the teacher. The teacher has a different story. Again, I say, Mr. Fisher's teaching regarding safety with these deadly weapons needs to be reviewed before another class of children is given deadly weapons. This should be the very least that is done at Lodi Middle. "
Leonard wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:17 PM:
Like guns, bow are perfectly safe if they are handled in a safe manner. However, insuring that they are handled in a safe manner, especially when you are teaching children, requires strict discipline.
To my mind, pointing a half cocked bow at some one is just as bad as pointing an unloaded gun at them. If a child of mine did either of these things they would receive a punishment that would engrave the laws of safe weapons handling on their youthful mind for all time. "
Leonard wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:13 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:13 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:11 PM:
I can tell you FOR A FACT that this student was given weeks of time with the instructor reviewing the rules and safety regulations and she knew, even versed the ramifications, of breaking those rules...
SO STOP BLAMING THE TEACHER HERE...A student broke the rules and was FULLY aware of the ramifications of her actions. She signed the form acknowledging this and even acknowledged it to her parents.
For this to be played out this way is unforgivable... all of you who want to hang an teacher for doing his job... you should be made accountable.
The parents are at fault here... ABSOLUTELY AT FAULT... first for not taking this through the system, and seconly for taking this to the one-sided Lodi News Seninal.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU ACCUSE AN INNOCENT AND CONSCIENTIOUS FACULTY MEMBER WHO EVEN REDUCED HIS PENALTY BY THREE DAYS OF SUSPENSION FOR A "GOOD STUDENT."
Enough of this b.s....
The parents are trying to save face here and make their child out to be faultless.... b.s.... "
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:50 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:50 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:44 PM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:42 PM:
getreal: How do you know for sure that this girl was properly taught "the rules"? "
Mrs. S. wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:20 PM:
dyan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:05 PM:
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:02 PM:
I agree 100% with you that they should run laps. Add a few pushups and sit ups and they may get in shape. Forget the props.
If the "so called smart" kids cannot follow the rules, the bows and arrows need to be put away.
Lizzy Laps, with pushups and situps. Get these kids in shape. "
Mrs. S. wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:59 PM:
However, I think the teacher and principal overreacted. If the teacher wanted to make sure she learned a lesson about safety, he should have thought of a different punishment (after school time? essay about archery safety?).
It's possible that he wanted to set an example with her, so that the goof-off types would understand that pointing a loaded bow at someone was a serious offense. They'd be more likely to cause accidents. "
dyan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:59 PM:
Neo wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:41 PM:
anna macanas wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:21 PM:
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:18 PM:
In honor of Dizzy Lizzy, we can refer to the new PE program as the "Lizzy Laps".
Every child going through Lodi Middle School will now know they can thank Lizzy for the "Lizzy Lap" program. "
roni95242 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:08 PM:
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:00 PM:
I am so sick of parents who jump on the teacher to protect their kid from the consequences of their dumb actions.
Hey, what ever happened to the Lodi High kid who was suing because the Lodi High Staff did not do CPR well enough? He lives but believes his mental problems (dumbness) is due to the fact that he was not revived fast enough. The defibrillator miss fired.
If I was that teacher who tried to help him, I would sue his family for sending the kid to school with a known heart problem. Mental stress.
Actually, maybe this teacher should sue this girl's family for the undo stress she put him under. Also the two student's who were in the line of fire may be ruined for life too... maybe they should sue the girl's family too? "
samiam wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:54 PM:
Neo wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:38 PM:
Neo wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:37 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:29 PM:
I wonder how loud you would scream if you looked up and there was a teen with a bow and arrow aimed in your direction? "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:27 PM:
From the article: "But Elizabeth maintains she was pointing it toward the ground, not Fisher.
"I could barely pull back, like barely an inch," she said Thursday. "He said if I let it go he would have been punctured. If I would have let it go, it would have hit the ground."
We are not given details as to how far she was from him. Also, pull out a ruler, an inch is a very small amount. From her perspective it may have felt like and inch, but in reality it could have been several. It doesn't take much for an arrow to fly 15 ft.
The news I was watching this week was talking about a reporter who did a gun safty course including a simulator as to a gun fight. One of the exit questions was how many shots did you fire. He said three, he fired ten. He wasn't lying but his perception was not reality. "
Oh Bull ! wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:24 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:21 PM:
I had archery when I was in the Boy Scouts. The bow was never aimed at anything I didn't intend to point it at. I was 11. I think she intentionally pointed it at the instructor to show how tight the string was but was not thinking as to how dangerous it was. I seriously doubt there was malice, she doesn't sound like the kind of girl that would do that, but there was carelessness and there has to be a consequence to that.
I would like to hear the full story from the fellow students and teacher's perspectives. Was she goofing around or in another way not treating it with the respect it should have been?
I think three days is a suitable reminder never to take safty for granted. And as a side note in referance to the violent kids who start fights at school, I think their suspensions should be 5 school days, increasing with repeated offenses. "
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:19 PM:
Also " Two other students were also in the line of fire and were shaken up."
The mom is over playing her daughter's innocence. Goody two shoes screw up too. She blew it. Deal with the punishment. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:19 PM:
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:17 PM:
Obviously someone didn't read the entire article or comprehend it. She couldn't get the thing pulled back. That is why she turned to ask for help. Then the girlie man yelled and sent her to the office.
Then another bad decision was made by the head honcho to suspend her for 5 days and make her feel lucky because she could have been expelled for pointing a dangerous weapon, that they put in her hand, at the teacher.
Does this not sound as silly to anyone else besides me? "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:16 PM:
Rhodie Wrote:
"I've seen teens get their eyesockets smashed because they decided to walk behind someone swinging a golf club."
So should the golf club swinger be suspended because someone was dumb enough to walk behind someone swinging a golf club?
Or on the other side, should the person hit by the club be suspended because they made the mistake of walking behind someone swinging a golf club?
Neither make sense because both scenario's were probably the result of a mistake (not paying attention), not the result of a bad decision (consciously DECIDING to walk behind the golf club swinger). "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:15 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:14 PM:
The last line of this article is almost funny:
He would not comment if there have been any other incidents with Lodi Middle School's archery program..
TRANSLATION: It has happened before, but we handled it differently so we are going to hide behind the veil of "privacy".
..but.. the district has had to deal with other cases of students with dangerous items.
Um .. "other dangerous items" being guns? Knives? Pepper spray?
Again, I hate to beat a dead horse here but - pointing a gun, knife or pepper spray has MALICE written all over it (unless Lodi Middle also has pistol shooting, knife throwing and peper spraying classes). "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:11 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:11 PM:
Rhodie
If she pointed the weapon with MALICE (wanted to scare or threaten) then I would support KICKING HER OUT OF SCHOOL! But this article says she basically made a mistake by pointing a weapon while trying to ask for assistance. Ask any cop if one of their peers has ever accidentally pointed a gun at the shooting range. The answer would be "yes" (and they aren't 13 years old).
With your 1st question, are you implying that the kid purposely pointed the bow and arrow?
For question 2, my answer is "Yes, she probably should be suspended".
But your hypothetical "what if she had been shot" didn't happen, now, did it? so let's judge this incident based on what happened .. not what could have happened. If someone had been shot, then a DIFFERENT PENALTY would have been warranted. "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:07 PM:
1. Do any of you think ANY other student will "accidently" point a bow and arrow at a teacher? (I've never understood how you can unitentionally point a weapon at someone)
2. If the string had slipped from her fingers and the teacher been wounded, then should she be suspended then?
WAY back when I was a youth my brother was struck by a dart because the next door youth pretended to throw a dart at him but it slipped from his hand. It, fortunately only struck my brothers foot but it could have been much worse.
Is this a "crosswalk" issue here. Is it tolerable to you supports of hers to engage in reckless behavior as long as no one gets hurt? What about a student driver who barrels through a crosswalk with kids in it but misses them? Should they be reprimanded? No harm came, it was just a mistake.
What punishment should this girl be put under for pointing a weapon at someone? "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:01 PM:
If you can't pull the bow back how was she going to shoot the teacher with the arrow?
I think parents should be scared these people who made this decision are in charge of their children's education. "
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:00 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:54 PM:
Oh Bull ! wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:51 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:49 PM:
And with regards to some of you taking issue with the mom getting the media involved.
When the mechanism of government (the school district) is not open to using common sense in making decisions that effect kids - it is our CONSITITUTIONAL RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN to take it to our fellow citizens for open debate and discussion.
The media is a perfectly acceptable medium for such a discussion.
Are you suggesting that when citizens disagree with the decisions of government, the media should not allow them to speak out to their fellow citizens?!
That ability to SPEAK OUT is precisely WHY newspapers have Editorial pages, and letters to the editor!
The only thing I see that should be questioned is why LNS didn't publish this as an editorial, instead of a feature article. That would be a fair question. "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:45 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:44 PM:
To GetReal
If Lodi Unified expelled this girl for NOT SERVING A SUSPENSION they would have been SUED and would have LOST.
Again, because she did not make a BAD CHOICE. She made a MISTAKE.
The mom should call the Pacific Legal Foundation. They give free advice and legal assistance for cases like these.
www.PacificLegal.org "
Oh Bull ! wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:41 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:40 PM:
To GetReal
I think Lodi Unified did the right thing in the "T for Techno" case because the kid MADE A BAD DECISION.
In this case, the 13 YEAR OLD GIRL made a bad mistake that could have hurt someone.
But I don't think SUSPENSION is necessary for a mistake. I think she should have been removed from the class for demonstrating she was not responsible enough to do Archery.
But suspension for 5 days - then down to 3 days - is what GANG BANGER THUGS get for MAKING THE DECISION TO START A FIGHT ON CAMPUS.
Again, suspending someone for a mistake is INAPPROPRIATE.
Suspending someone for making the wrong choice IS APPROPRIATE.
If you're going to reply again, tell us all why you think SUSPENSION is APPROPRIATE for a 13 YEAR OLD KID who made a mistake without malice.... "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:37 PM:
You all are ready to hang her. She's a child who was trying to ask for help.
The teacher obviously has issues. "
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:36 PM:
Robb wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:35 PM:
Deal with it and move on... "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:34 PM:
Perhaps she made a mistake, but there are rules that must be enforced to insure safety, especially in a situation like this. Why is it ok that the child get off with no penalty? Why is it ok that the mom calls the newspaper to write this story? Why is it ok that this makes the front page over more important news? What a precedent that is being set here!
It amazes me that you people, parents or not, teachers or not would not recognize the need for rules and punishments for them. If I accidentally shoot someone with a bow and arrow, I am still required to pay a punishment. Yep, it's life.
You cannot lump all situations that happen in schools together. Most are not reported in the papers. Most don't make the front page. "
Oh Bull ! wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:33 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:32 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:30 PM:
If I were the mom, I would have sent my kid to school and NOT ALLOWED THEM TO MAKE HER SERVE THE SUSPENSION.
She is kind of at a disadvantage now, in that she "accepted" the punishment but now wants it removed from the child's record.
I can tell you that records get changed all the time. In grade school my daughter was being bullied by the daughter of a Lodi High coach. We filed a complaint a the school level, and when nothing was done we filed a complaint at the school district level because they told us that was the only way to get it on the kid's record.
Later when she had another problem with the same kid, we filed a complaint. In reviewing the complaint we cited our previous problem.
Guess what?
Voila! We were told there were no prior incidents on the kid's record!!! "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:25 PM:
To GetReal
PULHEEZE!
The "T for Techno" incident was a DECISION that the kid made (see my previous post about the difference between decisions and mistakes). He could have chosen NOT to make that hand gesture. That hand gesture didn't happen on accident.
This girl made a mistake.
Some of you really don't understand that difference, do you??!!! "
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:25 PM:
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:23 PM:
Bad call, Mom. This problem could have been handled quietly without the daughter looking foolish. Yes, pointing an arrow at a person is a foolish action. She should have known better, especially if she is as bright as you "claim." "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:22 PM:
A "decision" is usually the path someone choses when they are in a position to have to make a choice.
A mistake does not require a decision - it just happens.
Yes, I know that most liberal thinking people like to characterize BAD CHOICES as MISTAKES. But the reality of it is .. bad choices are NOT MISTAKES. They are WRONG DECISIONS.
This girl made a mistake.
If she had a choice between (1) pointing the bow and arrow at the teacher to scare her, or (2) not pointing it at her .. she would have made a BAD DECISION if she chose number 1.
In this case she wasn't making a decision .. she just made a mistake.
This mentality has been enforced by things like BILL CLINTON's affair with Lewinsky. His BAD DECISION was allowed to be characterized as a MISTAKE - when in fact it was just a bad decision. "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:20 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:19 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:19 PM:
How does a mistake made in a split second get characterized as "..a bad decision on the child's part?".
Yes, she made a mistake. She should be removed from that class as a precaution, so that the mistake is not made again.
But suspending her for three days - like you would for any thug who started a fight on campus - is EQUITABLE?
My point is - I don't think so. "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:17 PM:
While I agree there is no way this will have any effect on her getting into college, it's the pricipal of the whole thing.
The child didn't do anything wrong. She was asking for help. And if they are afraid the children are going to point "dagerous weapons" at them. Don't give them to them!!! "
Timothy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:17 PM:
" I still don't understand WHY some of you still feel the need to "Judge" a 13 year old girl, SHE IS A MINOR."
If you do not want to hear people's comments, why put this in paper?
Sorry, a normal 13 year old knows not point an arrow at anyone. She goofed. Deal with it. "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:16 PM:
To Getreal
In my friend's case, the Vice Principal at Tokay was ADAMANT - and even ARROGANT about enforcing a suspension for a misunderstanding and violation of privacy by another student.
Trust me, the appeals process within the education system is NOT BASED ON COMMON SENSE.
It is based on MAKING EVERYONE FEEL GOOD. "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:15 PM:
My point is that it is an over-application of rules to suspend someone who made an honest mistake - with no MALICE.
She should have been reprimanded, and removed from that class for violating safety rules (if indeed this was an accident).
But SUSPENDED???
Gang bangers who get into fights get 3-day suspensions. Why should she get the same?
This society is bass-ackwards! "
SSG Jeremy wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:14 PM:
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:13 PM:
SECOND:
A friend of mine told me of a similar "over-reaction" at Tokay High last year.
A group of AP students - none of whom had any record of discipline issues whatsoever - were continuing a History Class discussion on "Forms of government and non-government" after class. That discussion included "Anarchy" as a form of non-government.
A female student was eaves dropping on the conversation and reported to the school that these students were planning a "Columbine type" event.
The school called the kid in, and realized it was just a misunderstanding ... but STILL wanted to suspend the students for three days!
My friend called the Pacific Legal Foundation for advice, and they agreed to help. They had recently won another similar lawsuit.
The principal at Tokay finally intervened and declared the students should not be punished. But prior to that the Vice Principal was adamant that the students should be punished for something they didn't do - there was never any MALICE. "
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:13 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:10 PM:
NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL:
"Principal Sanchez reduced the original recommendation to just two-and-a-half days of suspension and told the Nesbitts that Elizabeth could have been expelled since she technically pointed a deadly weapon at someone."
And how many parents get their story on the front page of a newspaper when they are upset with their child's grade or afraid their child won't get into college because of a bad decision on the child's part? ONE SIZE FITS ALL? "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:04 PM:
There are two things that stink about this story.
FIRST: LODI-UNIFIED
The stiff penalty of a 5 DAY SUSPENSION that was initially considered is part of the rules that help protect teachers from MALICIOUS ACTS BY STUDENTS with regards to weapons and potential weapons. Unfortunately Lodi Unified doesn't factor in common sense when doling out punishment. Assuming this really was an accident - this girl gets the same treatment that someone else would get - if that someone else were pointing the bow and arrow at the teacher to scare or intimidate them.
Lodi Unified doesn't allow themselves to factor in WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS MALICE.
If there were MALICE they would be justified in their punishment, and/or expelling the student.
But there seems to be no malice here. Just a "one size fits all" application of some vague rules. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:37 PM:
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:35 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:33 PM:
HappyDays94 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:23 PM:
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:21 PM:
Do you even know what I'm talking about when I say has he see that movie one time too many? No. Obviously you don't.
There is a scene where the kids are doing archery in gym and a girl turns away to talk to someone and accidentally shoots her gym teacher in the bum.
So maybe YOU should do YOUR homework. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 2:07 PM:
" Has this teacher seen 10 Things I Hate About You one time too many?.. WHAT A STUPID THING TO SAY.. the mother even stated that he was "he was very genuine in his opinion of my daughter. " Do YOUR homework! "
LodiReaderFromStockton wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:58 PM:
samiam wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:49 PM:
fawn lebowitz wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:31 PM:
60's child wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:30 PM:
Bob Loblaw wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:22 PM:
lapdog wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:22 PM:
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:09 PM:
The girl made a mistake, took responsibility and admitted it. While I don't think the punishment fit the crime she should be thankful that nothing serious happened.
I don't agree with how Mom handled the situation by doing an interview, but I bet she is wishing she never spoke to the LNS after some of these moronic blogs.
BTW, Fawn Lebowitz is the best "handle" on this stupid blog! Classic! So remote only true fans of this movie will catch it. Rofl... "
Inquisitor wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:53 PM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:38 PM:
It amazes me the children of sheriff's officers, firemen, and the spouses of these public servants that turn a blind eye to their children's unintentional actions. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:34 PM:
LUSD is trying to be fair. Dr. Sanchez reduced the suspension out of fairness. If your problem is with LUSD, then your anger should not be directed at this teacher for making a responsible decisions and enforcing the rules of his class. "
dogs4you wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:32 PM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:30 PM:
" elizabeths mother already spoke out so why is anyone still discussing this? she has asked that everyone just stop all this non-sense and just leave her family and the teacher alone! Let the family deal with this!!! "
ARE YOU KIDDING? Mom opened the can of worms here... what did she expect? Was she thinking the entire public would sympathize with her and this would get the school system to change its mind?
If the school board gives in on this, that will be the TRUE injustice to our children. For a sheriff and a business owner to not understand the importance of or teach to their child the importance of following direction and paying the consequences for breaking the rules is the more irresponsible than any one else involved in this incident! "
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:27 PM:
MARZO2008 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:25 PM:
Her mother is wrong completely. she should have made her daugther take the punishment. we all know that her daugther has never had to be punished for doing the wrong things. what life lesson is she learning? in a few years she will be in the paper about doing something wrong, oh, but she didn't know it at the time. it's common sense. now that you have shamed your daugther by having her in the paper we as society will look at her just as someone who did something bad. You just want people to forget and forgive. well, it will not happen. she is already label thanks to you!!! (Mom) :) "
jay dubb wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:19 PM:
Also - jnesbitt - if I get drunk and do not INTEND to get in a wreck and kill 2 people - should I NOT be held accountable? After all it was unintentional? How about if I pull the trigger in a drive by shooting? My target was 1 person - but I did not INTEND to shoot 3 innocent bystanders - should I NOT be held accountable for my actions? After all they were unintentional. If your house burns down and you have left a candle burning (your example) - you are negligent. While not intentional - your actions would be considered negligent and your negligence would be easy to prove.
I certainly believe your daughter did not intend to commit any crime or do anyone harm - YET - she was negligent in her actions. "
JD wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:11 PM:
Reasonable teachers do not get their students suspended for accidents or unintentional conduct.
Either Fisher is a power-tripping lout, or Elizabeth is simply lying when she says it wasn't intentional.
If it was the former, then why haven't other acquaintances of Fisher chimed in here confirming what a jerk he is? And why did Elizabeth sign the suspension form? "
flan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:00 PM:
71888 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:58 AM:
fawn lebowitz wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:38 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:35 AM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:35 AM:
jay dubb wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:32 AM:
As far as all the people on here who are concerned about the district handing the children "deadly weapons" - Lets just remove anything that could be used as a weapon from our schools - pens, pencils, paper clips, staples and staplers, pencil sharpeners, baseballs, bats, golf clubs, bicycles, scooters, tennis racquets, skateboards, school buses, rulers, protractors, rubberbands,....I mean really....our kids should not be exposed to any of these dangerous items. "
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:25 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:24 AM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:22 AM:
Lodian wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:17 AM:
Bob Loblaw wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:09 AM:
fawn lebowitz wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:07 AM:
Bob Loblaw wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:03 AM:
ruserious wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:01 AM:
Yes I am serious, good decisons and bad decisions are what determines specific outcomes. She mad a bad decision. If she is not taught to deal with the outcome what lesson is learned. I'll give you a hint. Oh I'm not to blame its somebody else's fault; the teacher, the district, the bow company the arrow company, ancient warriors who developed the bow and arrow. "
jnesbitt wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:01 AM:
flan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:00 AM:
~flan "
fawn lebowitz wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:52 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:45 AM:
ruserious wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:37 AM:
Max is correct, the board would of caved quietly. No chance of that now or the flood gates will open on all behaviors. She made a bad decision, no one is saying she is a bad person. Take your punishment, learn and move on. "
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:35 AM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:35 AM:
He was trying to be fair. He has commented that she is a good student. But, she was not paying attention when she should have been and he, after calling out her name several times to stop, enforced the rules as they stand for all student who participate in this activity.
for Lodi Unified Associate Superintendent Odie Douglas, to say that i t's unreasonable for suspending her for something they feel was totally unintentional," is unconscionable. This is the problem with the system. It caves into the pressures of public opinion and parental pressures. There are rules, and John Nesbitt, a San Joaquin County Sheriff's deputy, knows the importance of them in order to insure the safety of others. Just because a student has a 4.0 does not make her above the rules. "
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:32 AM:
Hope2Be wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:32 AM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:27 AM:
Yes, a bow and arrow can be a weapon. But, when instructors spend time to insure that the students know the safety issues and the rules, the sport can be an amazing one for young kids. Should we remove golf, as a golf club could be a weapon? Should we remove weights, as a weight could be a weapon? If the rules are followed, safety is enforced as are consequences for not following the rules, everyone does well. This is a sad situation for a parent who has high hopes for her child. This is a sad situation for a seventh grader who wasn't thinking when it was important for her to do so. This is a sad situation for a teacher who wants to provide great experiences for his students. This is a sad situation for the system when it does not support itself! "
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:27 AM:
max stanfield wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:22 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:19 AM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:17 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:13 AM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:11 AM:
Support your educational systems. Teachers work so hard today and they are not calling the press to vocalize. For parents to use this vehicle is completely uncalled for, but it is the age in which we live where we can stir public opinion by spinning a story.
It is sad to me the things I am reading in this comments where children are being judged here and teachers are being judged. This court of public opinion is this rude and condescending and I would imagine each of us would be skewered as this student and teacher are here. Please have some grace and tact. "
ruserious wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:10 AM:
The minute they went to the paper they wanted the court of public opinion so now they have to deal with it. Ast. Super Odie Douglas seems to be the only one who has made a good decision. "
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:03 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:00 AM:
professorssj wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:58 AM:
afriend wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:55 AM:
HerAunt wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:40 AM:
melmaple88 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:28 AM:
dyan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:25 AM:
How else will they ever learn? If they get off the hook they might grow up to be a wall street banker. "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:19 AM:
Others may read the code section differently as to mean any act which was voluntary. Thus, she raised the bow and arrow with full knowledge that doing so was against the rules, no one forced her to, therefore her act was wilful and intentional. "
Paola wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:14 AM:
flan wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:13 AM:
~Flan "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:07 AM:
Sine they are obviously unhappy with the decision that was made by the administration at Lodi Middle, they need exhaust their administrative remedies and appeal to the Board.
The code section provided by the Sentinel is a two-part test:
1. Thes student committed the act complained of;
and
2. The act was intentional and/or willful (this is my interpretation of the code section provided.."or OTHERWISE wilfully.." inferring that the act muse be intentional)
There's no doubt that she committed the act of raising her bow and arrow according to students present during the incident and the teacher. However, was the act intentional? Mom and daughter say "no". This is an issue to be brought in front of the board. "
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:00 AM:
getreal wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:54 AM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:48 AM:
Under an agency relationship, statements an employee makes regarding activities committed in the course and scope of his/her business relationship can be attributed to the district and cause the employer (the district) to incur possible (emphasize "possible")legal liability.
I highly doubt he was silent because he believes he was wrong. "
Kolona25 wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:45 AM:
HerAunt wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:28 AM:
anna macanas wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:27 AM:
T & C wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:27 AM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:10 AM:
Never point a deadly weapon at another person unless you intend to kill them!
Suspension seems to be a mild punishment, given the fact that the consequences could have been a whole lot worse. "
ruserious wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:52 AM:
radone wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:47 AM:
spiker wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:42 AM:
lodisafeway wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:27 AM:
jramagic wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:59 AM:
jramagic wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:58 AM:
boonablis wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:46 AM:
I heard at Galt High Schools they have rock throwing classes, because they have not found out the advantages of the bow and arrow.
Seriously who is to blame here? Student or the school "
ra wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:46 AM:
Zinfandel wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:32 AM:
LMS and LUSD should drop archery class. A bow and arrow is a deadly weapon . . .so who is at fault here the girl or LUSD for including archery in the PE program? Are are the adults here who are suppose to protect our children?
I don't think is young girl intentionally pointed the bow and arrow; however something serious could have happened. So, again, I repeat, who would have been responsible? Get rid of archery! "
Comments on this story are now closed.