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Inmates health, taxpayers, and health care
Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:39 AM PDT
About three weeks ago, I read how Clark Kelso is requesting $8 billion to improve medical care for our state inmates.
According to the request, the quality of inmate health care was so poor it violated the U.S. Constitution.
What constitutes poor health care for inmates who chose the path to incarceration?
When a person violates the freedoms and protections of citizens and taxpayers, they lose their freedom. Of course the ACLU capitulate the rights of prisoners; rights to have Internet access, unlimited resources and education, to marry in prison, to appeal their case over and over again, and the civil and legislative rights of an American citizen. Prison seems like being outside the penal system except you are given food, clothes, housing, security and of course, "medical care." The exception — it's free for the inmates and costs the taxpayer thousands of dollars. As taxpayers, we endeavor to keep food on the table, clothes on our back, and to deal with high energy costs while coping with the added cost of keeping inmates in prison. Millions of Americans lack insurance because they cannot afford it or their primary employers don't offer it. As a citizen (or not), if you lack insurance, you can always go to the emergency room for a severe or life-threatening circumstance; however, you're not covered for eye examinations, dental care or dermatology issues.
Kelso is more concerned about inmates, most of whom have been incarcerated for caustic crimes, than the citizen who avoids conjectures of criminal activity. California is almost the avuncular canal of generosity and has more inmates than any other state. The fact remains, if you were to end up in any prison in the world, California is the Golden State. It seems that diversions of California funds are arbitrated without consent of the taxpayer.
California needs to get back to approbation of what the majority vote wants — fewer prisoners and more prisoners working to pay for their upkeep. California prisons and legal statures that process these inmates are a model system of what not to do. Californian wastes countless billions for prisoners, guards, buildings and now better health care facilities. It's utilization of state funds like this that put us further into debt.
Rudy Gutierrez
Lodi
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SportsGuru wrote on Sep 30, 2008 3:46 PM:
JACKIM wrote: "Better they be released and have a wife/husband to come home to than to live on the streets"
I once had a girlfriend who's step father was in prison. When he got out he came home, wouldn't get a job, beat her mother, and finally got his arse kicked by an attendant at a Liquor Store he tried to rob! He reached into the cash register and the owner slammed the cash drawer on his hand, then beat the crap out of him.
They found him two blocks away laying in the gutter.
He's back in prison now and isn't getting out, thanks to three strikes. Without three strikes, he probably would have gotten out again .. then killed the next guy he robbed (to make sure there were no witnesses). "
Robb wrote on Sep 29, 2008 8:35 AM:
95242 wrote on Sep 29, 2008 1:48 AM:
Robb wrote on Sep 28, 2008 7:34 PM:
It completely disgusts me.. "
95242 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 7:20 PM:
I have passed sensitive long ago on this subject. "
Robb wrote on Sep 28, 2008 6:48 PM:
I regularly work with parolees, in a behavioral health setting, you would be surprised what CDC will pay for.. "
95242 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 5:54 PM:
Robb wrote on Sep 28, 2008 3:26 PM:
95242 wrote on Sep 28, 2008 4:11 AM:
Robb wrote on Sep 27, 2008 6:10 PM:
TEA_Madhatter wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:54 AM:
You have more compassion for a stray dog than you do for your fellow man. You seem to be hollow eyed zombies, believing whatever you are told by your Legislators, who have proven time after time how UNtrustworthy they are.
We saw the writing on the wall in the early 90's and left CA. We definitely have no deside to go back.
For those of you who believe in "lock them up and throw away the key", you are condemning not only the inmate, but yourself. YOU must PAY for keeping them locked up.
There are reports that state that as many as 30% of those locked up are innocent, yet the Innocence Projects in CA are under-funded. For every inmate freed because they are NOT guilty, it saves Californians $45,000. a year.
WAKE UP California - hold the politicians responsible!!! Instead of TOUGH on crime...demand they be SMART on crime. "
jackim wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:12 PM:
95242 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:06 PM:
95242 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:00 PM:
95242 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 6:53 PM:
There are so many sitting in prison with just the same attitude as this. They too had no regard for others and their welfare, same as you! "
95242 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 6:47 PM:
Yes 1 out of 170,000 inmates a week are dying because of lack of medical care, so yes that's high! I'm trying to stay on topic here. I don't think Detroit and the soldiers in Bagdad have anything at all to do with this topic. "
dogs4you wrote on Sep 25, 2008 5:45 PM:
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 4:32 PM:
It's the illegals, and those sentenced under the 3 strikes law that overcrowd the prisons. "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 2:51 PM:
Of course, PETA might rescue the dog and put it on "death row" in some animal rescue compound..... "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 2:50 PM:
To ACAMPO_MOM
The real question is WHY ARE CALIFORNIA'S PRISON'S SO OVERCROWDED?
Here are a couple of reasons:
Our prisons are overflowing with illegal aliens.
Despite having a death penalty, there is no death penalty. Criminals sentenced to die just languish in prison until they die of old age. To keep themselves busy, they sue the state on a regular basis.
The cost of extending the life of death row inmates costs us plenty given the high security required to keep them alive. We should carry out their sentences and save the taxpayers money.
The problem with your dog analogy is.. if someone's dog killed a member of your family, you'd shoot the dog (and it would be ok). "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:05 PM:
SportsGuru...I'm with you on the illegals, I don't think any resources AT ALL should be spent on locking them up, they should be deported immediately. Even if they come back and come back and come back. It's still cheaper to send them back a hundred times than it is to keep them in the prisons for a few years. "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:59 PM:
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:58 PM:
Why do I protect those who do crimes...have you never in your life made a mistake?
I'm not saying that there isn't some people in prison that might deserve to die (though it isn't my place to make that judgment!) But to say that they ALL do??? The thing is they are all under the same umbrella.
That kid from up the street that's doing 4 years for stealing a car...he's in the same prison with the guy from down state that's doing 25 to life for murdering his girlfriend...ALL UNDER THE SAME UMBRELLA. You can't say "let them die in prison" without meaning "let ALL of them die in prison".
Oh, the mind of the right wing fundamental Conservative...how is it ever able to get a wink of sleep at night? "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:41 PM:
I'm just not sure what people really want. Is it REALLY everyone's desire, to allow men and women to rot in a prison cell and to just "let them die?"
As I said before the major reason why this health care thing is even an issue is because California prisons are overcrowded, the resources are just not there.
If a person were to tie up their dog in the yard, and let the dog languish until dead...that person would be charged with animal cruelty, my thinking is that the human beings, though guilty of a myriad of crimes, should at least be afforded the same level of care and rights as animals are given. My god, these are human beings! "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:31 PM:
I was commenting on marzo2008's comment of "who cares if they die in jail. at least the would be one person that we are wasting money on just to keep them alive."
Not that I wished that he would go to prison, I was also pointing out that his attitude wasn't entirely unlike those who are doing time in prison.
AND, I didn't say anything about the inmates not getting care for cancer and other major and/or life threatening diseases. I was bringing up the absurdity that people actually die while incarcerated, from common everyday illnesses, because they are denied medical care, because the resources aren't available. "
MARZO2008 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:58 AM:
why do you protect those who do crimes. if i did something then i would be on my way to jail. just like if anyone in my family was going in then they should be there. to protect society as a whole. Do you want to release all of those that are in prison? acampo mom? maybe you should invite them over for dinner. maybe even date your kids? an eye for an eye. "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:33 AM:
AND why do I keep bringing up illegal immigration?
Because about 1/3 of the prison population in America .. and probably 40 to 50% in California .. are estimated to be illegal immigrants.
So those two problems go hand in hand.
Could it be that those illegals are bringing into the prison system, illnesses that are advanced such as anti-biotic resistant staph infections? "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:32 AM:
To Acampo_Mom:
I've had colds and flu and survived just fine without seeing my doctor.
Pneumonia and staph infections would require they see a doctor.
It used to be a REQUIREMENT that immigrants to this country pass a health screening test. If they did not pass, they were not allowed in.
Why?
Because our forefathers realized that America cannot afford to cure everything that ails the world. By brining in people who are sick, we expose our population to those illnesses - and de facto create healthcare crisis.
Should a death row inmate suffering from cancer be given life sustaining treatment -at a cost of millions- that will only prolong their life on death row? Or should nature be allowed to take its course for the collective good of society? "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:27 AM:
I SAY suspend all the luxuries afforded to inmates (CAble TV, Internet, Education) and use that money to pay for the BASIC healthcare needs - if indeed they aren't getting BASIC healthcare.
But my suspicion is that they are getting BASIC healthcare, but want more ... cosmetic surgery ... sex changes .. pet healthcare (for the pet rats they keep in their cells) and everything else CALIFORNIA politicians lump under "human rights". "
SportsGuru wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:25 AM:
I agree with most of what you wrote, Rudy. But I wonder if you would extend your logic to illegal immigrants?
Illegals and prisoners have more benefits than the average working stiff.
If an illegal gets injured, they go to our emergency rooms for treatment (and cannot be turned away). If an inmate breaks a tooth in a yard fight, he gets dental attention at the taxpayers expense.
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO REALIZE THAT WE CAN'T PROVIDE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE - FOR FREE - IN THIS COUNTRY? "
lodisafeway wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:38 AM:
lodisafeway wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:35 AM:
lodisafeway wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:30 AM:
Mr. Gutierrez is correct with the use of his "big words" (if those who don't understand those words were to invest in a dictionary, it might not be so difficult to understand them) that our scofflaws are overcompensated for their crimes. Our penal system is designed to do two things - rehabilitate and punish. Obviously the idea of actually punishing them has fallen by the wayside. And although prisoners are not able to pick up a telephone to make an appointment with their doctor of choice to address whatever malady they might be experiencing at any given time, any such care provided by us (you know, the taxpayers) should provide for emergencies and life-preservation issues only. Anything more than that serves as a reward for their violation of our laws. "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:51 AM:
I might be inclined to wish the same for you... "
Acampo_Mom wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:44 AM:
Overcrowding, under-staffing, and insufficient medical facilities within the prison system make BASIC medical care unattainable in California prisons. The inmates should receive this BASIC care as human beings.
Gutierrez wrote: "Kelso is more concerned about inmates, most of whom have been incarcerated for caustic crimes..." I don't even know what this means??? But actually most of the (California) prisoners have been incarcerated for non-violent crimes, for which they've been sentenced longer terms suited for violent offenders...hence, the overcrowding.
As for the luxuries that Gutierrez seems to think that California inmates enjoy...he's very mistaken. California prisoners are treated like cattle...move them in, move them out, if the prison system isn't going to give them basic medical care, what makes you think that they have internet access, unlimited resources(?) and education??? Only a handful of inmates actually benefit from any "education" inside prison walls.
You don't want $8 billion spent on their health-care? Then insist it be spent on their rehabilitation! "
marzo2008 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:40 AM:
Leonard wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:18 AM:
max stanfield wrote on Sep 25, 2008 6:51 AM:
95242 wrote on Sep 25, 2008 4:45 AM:
ONE PRISONER A WEEK IS DYING BECAUSE OF MEDICAL NEGLECT! I WOULD SAY THAT CONSTITUTES POOR HEALTH CARE!
YOU SHOULD REALLY CHECK OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU WRITE A LETTER LIKE THIS.
Mr. Gutierrez also wrote: When a person violates the freedoms and protections of citizens and taxpayers, they lose their freedom.
WHILE THIS MAY BE TRUE, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MEDICAL CARE SHOULD BE WITHHELD AS IT HAS BEEN TOO MANY PRISONERS. BECAUSE OF THIS MANY PRISONERS HAVE DIED. THESE PRISONERS ARE SENTENCED TO PRISON NOT TO A DEATH SENTENCE.
Mr. Gutierrez also wrote: Kelso is more concerned about inmates.
HE IS PAID TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE INMATES, THAT IS HIS JOB! HE WAS APPOINTED BY A FEDERAL JUDGE TO TAKE OVER THE CALIFORNIA PRISON HEALTHCARE AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS NO LONGER IN VIOLATION OF OUR CONSTITUTION. WHICH BY THE WAY IS ALSO AGAINST THE LAW! "
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