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What Ramadan means in living message of Quran
When Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, took the oath of office in early 2007, he borrowed Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Quran from the Library of Congress. Jefferson, a man of vision, learned from many sources. The Quran was one of them.
I would like to share, in brief, the importance of the Quran in Ramadan, the Islamic month of fasting, which began at sundown Monday.
Fasting was a gift given to all prophets and messengers to build piety and purification, and to reinvigorate the better person within us. This is a month to make an extra effort to be God-conscious, love all creation, be sincere in motives, show goodness without expectations, fulfill obligations, and to be humble with dignity, resolute in avoidance of sin, responsible for our words and deeds, moderate and demonstrate no excesses, just, lawful, most generous and charitable and to be truthful with God, oneself and others.
The Quran was first revealed in the month of Ramadan. God guides Muslims in the Quran to recite it frequently. In addition to individual recitations, during Ramadan, the Quran is recited in congregation in all mosques in nightly prayers. Thus, the entire Quran is recited and completed by the last week of Ramadan.
The themes of the Quran cover topics providing guidance and lessons for life here in this world and the world after we die.
The subjects of the Quran include, but are not limited to, the religious doctrine, the unity of God, how to live according to his will, and creation, including the environment, criminal and civil law, laws of inheritance and marriage, human interrelationship and responsibilities, Judaism, Christianity, polytheism, social values, morality, science, history, stories and lessons from past prophets.
The stories in the Quran are there to teach us life lessons.
The Quran provides examples of prophets such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Lot, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and his sons, including Joseph, David, Solomon, John the Baptist, Jesus and many others.
The Quran, in stories of the prophets, elaborates their sacrifices in spreading the message of God. It gives examples of and reveals the fate of nations that rejected their prophets, and examples of those who lived a life pleasing to God Almighty.
There is one common message of worship of one true God, the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the prophets and messengers. Obedience to God and his prophets, Muhammad being one of them, is a must. The Quran uses events from both past and present to illustrate its central message — unity of God and of the prophetic message.
I hope that the sharing of the above description will help in understanding your neighbors. Remaining strangers creates misunderstandings.
Riaz Hasan is a former director of outreach for the Tracy Islamic Center. He is now active in Islamic outreach in San Joaquin County and the greater Bay Area. For more information, send an e-mail to Islam.Outreach@yahoo.com.
Reader Feedback
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:12 PM:
if anything, God expects us to be IMperfect, and totally allows us to be, and accepts us because we are.
you tell them that they are GOING to sin, and sometimes on purpose. NO ONE is perfect post Christ. you tell them we ALL struggle with sin, and THAT is the exact reason we come to God in the FIRST place......because OF his love/acceptance.
the idea that no one sins, especially when you are following Christ, that is arguably one of the most crippling lies of all......the lie that "someday, i will get it all together".
come as you are, but come RIGHT NOW "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:03 PM:
your brother needs to know that God loves him, and he needs to feel that HIMSELF.
tell him to forget about the homosexuality issue, as what is more important is your brothers heart and soul.
God is not against him, HE is against sin. i don't care who you are or what you have done in life, NO ONE can "clean up" good enough to come to God on your own. it's not possible. repentance of any sin comes later, after God shows you he loves you, and will give you the strength to do so.
i have said it before a hundred times, and billy has lied about as much.....that i DON'T hate gays, because they are people. what i hate is sin, and people that "think" they are going to lie about God.
no matter who you are, or what you have done, God WILL accept you......right where you are....PERIOD
now, if a person is adamant about living outside of Gods standards no matter what, and doesn't come to him because OF that mindset.....that person CANNOT experience God. "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:52 PM:
EVERYONE is capable of change (i don't care who you are, or what you have done), because God can give people the strength to change they don't possess on thier own.
in fact, God specializes in the people that don't think they can, so that when he does it, God is the one the gets the glory.
there are ALOT of scenarios in life, where SELF change is impossible. but for a person to make the statement they cannot change, that is not true.
acceptance can mean two different things.
(1) acceptance because you struggle with things, your different than others, acceptance because of rejection of others for various reasons - God majors in acceptance, and a real Christian will go out of their comfort zone to do the same.
(2)acceptance, the kind where you want people to accept sin because you don't want to put in the effort it takes to adjust to Gods standards, and watch how God blesses you for it, then you try and justify it? no, that's an "acceptance" that God himself doesn't accept.
God majors in acceptance, but rejects unrepentant sin "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:38 PM:
if billy would quit his lying garbage, and act like a real man and engage in debate instead of his lying about people, we could get somewhere in here.
truth is, that won't happen. in fact, because i am so good at telling the truth about people.....it won't happen, because of billy's "committment" to acting out all things heinous. he has made a career out of it now.
know how i know billy's future? even with rhodie being patient and respectful, billy's perversion drives him to be a committed jerk to even rhodie.
someone reigns that guy in, there is a chance of peace in the LNS blogs. if nobody does, then i have to swat that evil all over this board.....and i will. "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:30 PM:
It's hard to bring along a non believer, as they want exceptence but know they won't get it and they can't change").
one wouldn't think so, because i have to deal with people lying in here like they don't possess a conscience, but acceptance IS my game. if you knew what i did for a living, and the acceptance/respect i give out to people that are completely the polar opposite of my beliefs, you would be stunned.
you guys only see glimpses of who i am, because of these integrity ain'ts who think they are going to play games and lie about Christ, or anybody that accuretly relicates history. i won't allow them their "door mat" treatment of Christ/Christians they were formally used to, and i will "flyswat" them when they try it.
a Christian that takes no garbage off of anyone.....it's not a new concept.
my life isn't heralded by the circus in here. although i won't allow anybody to run roughshod over Christ/Christianity, my life is known FOR my love/acceptance/compassion for the seeking/hurting.
as God is my absolute witness "
WY wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:03 PM:
And yes, it was personal to me. It's hard to bring along a non believer, as they want exceptence but know they won't get it and they can't change. It pains my heart to truely know this about someone I love so deeply. "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:07 PM:
this historical FACT comes to mind.....that perversion has never been acceptable in the entirety of the human race, and it never will be.
while we are at it, let's see you explain to the reading audience how a person "isn't" a "victim" if they aquire aids thru risk sex...
maybe you can provide first hand experience, or are you too "busy" between sets at the noodle?
either way, your no "victim" "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 8:01 PM:
I think there is a great difference between something that happens out of coincidence and an event that is shaped by divine will. ").
robb should read my journals and say "there is no proof of God answering prayers". never mind, he would only lie about it that it "never happened".
you want a true statement? you cannot prove God to an integrity ain't bent on lying about factual occurances or statements.
my life has been filled with God doing things completely out of my control, where i could not manipulate the circumstances to make it happen.
answered prayers can be attributed to making certain aspects of it happpening YOURSELF. however, there are certain times where it is obvious that only God could create a particular circumstance.
those times are indefenseable by the likes of billy/robb. "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:51 PM:
" This is the argument that has begun more wars than any other, I cannot completely prove my point, and neither can you..
I suppose we are at a stalemate here?").
i proved mine, so where is YOURS ???
so far, you have never ONCE refuted the history i did give, so your lying when you say "neither can you".
until you/billy prove the history i gave was never written, your lying about it, and my supposed "inability" to provide it.
seem's tedious to take these integrity ain't's to the cleaners, but it is worth it because it demonstrates they ARE lying.
a person in a position wouldn't lie about their opponent, and in FACT would go to the lengths necessary to provide counter intelligence to PROVE thier position. you two NEVER do
lying and excuses ISN'T a defense, but it IS the indicator they don't know squat.
robb said -----> "i-demand-respect".
you will get my respect, when you earn it, when you act like a man a quit lying about what i HAVE done, and you finish what you start by debating it.
until-then,...you-inherit-my-"flyswatting" "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:39 PM:
" RF, I have never called you ANY names, as others here have, I demand to be treated with respect, regardless of whether we agree or not.. ").
that's lie #7.
you have said underhanded condescending garbage about me a several times in different blogs, in between your faux "peaceful" parade, so don't pretend you haven't.
you "demand" to be treated with "respect", when all you are is a person that plays games and lies about me just because you don't like me? are you joking?
you deserve everything i have said about you, because it's the truth. calling you names would have entailed me lying about who you are. i didn't. i told the truth about you.
a person deserves respect when they give it themselves. so far you start stuff in here, and REFUSE to address it or debate it, and you want respect?
so far you have lied multiple times, and refused to handle YOUR responsibility. you don't deserve respect......you deserve what i am going to give EVERY person that tries to chump me.
your "nice guy" gig is up "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:33 PM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 4:25 PM:
My husband's grandfather was a gunner during WWII. He was not raised to be a religious man. He told us similar stories...he should have been killed many times over but managed to escape death each and every time, despite being an obvious target. As a result of the things he saw, he came to believe in God and divine intervention. I think there is a great difference between something that happens out of coincidence and an event that is shaped by divine will. "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:50 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:48 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:45 PM:
It was something my father in-law mentioned to me. An account of the destroyers role in D-day is at http://216.230.103.132/navalhistory/articles04/NHAllenJun-2.htm
While they were suppose to provide artilary support, after an initial destoryer saw the trouble the landing crafts were having and moved in farther to provide better cover, more moved in. Many on the land stated that if the destoryers had not moved in as close as they had, with no cover of their own, then the landing troops would have been overwhelmed. "
Robb wrote on Sep 26, 2008 3:32 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:51 PM:
as much garbage as you started, i will make sure you finish it. if you think you are going to skate away without answering the questions of debate that YOU posed, your in la la land.
but that's all you people have. lying, then hitting and running, and NEVER debating the issues.
you lied exactly like billy when you said "nothing was provided".
you people are bottom feeders. having to lie without conscience ISN'T a defense.
i will come back in here tonight to take out more of your trash, because obviously your not man enough to provide anything else. instead, your hoping to slither away.
not on YOUR life
love, real facts "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:44 PM:
" Choke on WHAT historical fact, Reverend Fruitcake? ").
all the ones that i "gave you" over the last two years, that you lied i "didn't".
you choked on your own hysterical "fact" when you said that Jesus Christ never even existed.
when you said that, it highlighted what a pereversion driven moron you are.
anybody that lies about HISTORY, isn't a "victim".
your game was over a long time ago.
i just use you as an example of why homosexuality IS a perversion.
thanks for all your help "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:40 PM:
i hate sin, which means i hate homosexuality. so that's another one of your lies, because you know i have befriended gay people. your sick.
you lied about what i said about aids (again). i NEVER said God sent aids. i said he "could" have allowed it as retribution against his moral code. i don't know if HE allowed it, but i know this, if YOU have aids, you EARNED it because OF your perversion. you have NO ONE to blame but yourself for passing yourself around like a piece of meat.
aids isn't the only "stop sign" in life billy. if you roll past the stop sign in life (or in your case "speed" past), your going to get a "ticket".
wishing there wasn't a "traffic cop" won't make the "ticket" go away when you stand before the "judge".
that day can't come soon enough for your lying perversion. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:33 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:32 PM:
i did. now debate it. oh yeah, you can't. all you can do is lie that i "never did".
providing proof, it's what i do.
providing proof that your a liar driven by a desire to legitimize your perversion, by watching as you flush any semblance of integrity all over the board.
what, are you hoping that others in here are as moronic as you, and they will accept lying as part of "doing business"? well your in luck, because you have company. actually, your in the majority, because MOST of the people in here will lie about the facts, in order to play their agenda card.
what a loser. instead of debating info, you lie and say "there isn't any".
who can feel sorry for a person that lies to this level? not me. in fact, you are right where you should be, because you are no "victim". "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:24 PM:
that's EXACTLY what i said, and then when your lying perversion went to work and twisted it into the hateful/evil/perverted world you thrive upon, I explained exactly what i meant.
i explained it, and you remember, but continue to lie about it BECAUSE of your evil perverted heart, that i meant the character assasination of gays, and not violence. i went on further to note i have used that word "assasination" over and over to describe how the phony Christians in here "assasinate" Gods word and authority.
you know exactly what i meant, and your lying perverted heart demands you keep lying about it.
you are one sick human being, that you would resort to this garbage to "defend" homosexuality.
by all means moron, keep posting your trash. your willingness to lie HIGHLIGHTS the fact that i am right, that it's a perversion. it's the logical conclusion of perversion, that a person would have to lie about it.
your sick "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:23 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:15 PM:
say what a person will about their religious convictions, despite billy lying about it, those words are HISTORY. someone wrote those words in approx 90a.d. that's a fact not even billy can lie about.
shoot, billy's such a liar, even if those words were written a HUNDRED years ago, it STILL would have made it God, because a hundred years ago, it was IMPOSSIBLE then. billy, lies about history, and wishes it didn't exist. the fact IS, is that someone wrote those words THEN, and it is happening TODAY.
choke on that historical fact billy. choke on the historical fact based on YOUR history in here, that you aren't an advocate for gay rights, and you are no "victim".
your a pervert that lies to protract his perversion. that's ALL you are "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:13 PM:
I urged you to retract that hateful post and you laughed at me. I asked again for you to retract it and you said you meant what you wrote.
Rhodie even said you were too harsh.
At that time you tried to hide your intent by inventing the story of being "kidding" or some other excuse.
Your meaning was always clear, Reverend Fruitcake. You've always hated gays, saying they deserved to die of AIDS, that God sent AIDS to kill them, then you said you wanted to spend your time with daily assasinations.
Your quotes.
Now, back to your claims, where is that proof you promised? "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:11 PM:
" RF: are you referring to the witnesses described in Revelation 11:3? ")>
sorry, i was busy taking out billy's lying daily trash.
but yes, it is revelation chapter 11.
i think in verse 9 it talks about how "every nation, people and tribe" will see the two witnesses. that was IMPOSSIBLE short of satellite TV.
notice how the two integrity ain'ts (billy and robb) couldn't debate that fact? "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:01 PM:
lying pervert.
i NEVER said i wanted to kill gays or harm them. i have for tow years consistently condemned anything having to do with violence against gays. you lied and twisted my words into something evil, because you ARE evil
your a sick human being that you continue to lie about your garbage.
and you want to argue gay rights?
your the poster child for why homosexuality IS perversion, lying about sick garbage as if it's nothing to you.
your the EXACT example of why homosexuality is a perversion, because you can't even control your heinous.
everything you are.....YOU EARNED IT
gay rights. puke. all you do is make the case AGAINST homosexuality, and confirm that it IS a perversion.
good job moron "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 1:00 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:53 PM:
billy's "defense" is to lie about not providing proof, and then not debating anything i did provide.
despite my harsh language toward billy, it was/is the truth. the guy is a moron.
what moron lies that his opponent "didn't provide any", and what moron doesn't EVER debate the information presented? one that's perversion agenda driven.
for two straight years this guy has done the same thing - twisted peoples words and straight up lied, WITHOUT ever debating the information like a man.
perversion defense ALWAYS includes the same methodology....."pretend" it's not there, and that it will go away.
what cracks me up, is billy thinking he is the "face" of gay rights, and that his posture in here is to legitimize homosexuality by defending it.
all the guy is doing is solidifying that it IS perversion, everytime he lies, and REFUSES to debate stuff HE starts. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:53 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:51 PM:
Let's debate.
You say you have proof that Jesus Christ is God incarnate.
I say you don't have proof.
It's now up to you to provide said proof.
Please do so at your first opportunity. "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:49 PM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:48 PM:
Rhodie: you referred to the insticts of men during WWII in one of your previous posts. Could you elaborate? I'm interested in hearing the "rest of the story".
Thanks! "
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:48 PM:
billy's "defense" is to lie about not providing proof, and then not debating anything i did provide.
despite my harsh language toward billy, it was/is the truth. the guy is a moron.
what moron lies that his opponent "didn't provide any", and what moron doesn't EVER debate the information presented? one that's perversion agenda driven.
for two straight years this guy has done the same thing - twisted peoples words and straight up lied, WITHOUT ever debating the information like a man.
perversion defense ALWAYS includes the same methodology....."pretend" it's not there, and that it will go away.
what cracks me up, is billy thinking he is the "face" of gay rights, and that his posture in here is to legitimize homosexuality by defending it.
all the guy is doing is solidifying that it IS perversion, everytime he lies, and REFUSES to debate stuff HE starts.
you-have-"rights"-all-right-billy. you-can-be-a-perverted-moron-all-you-want "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:47 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:43 PM:
Maybe the ones who will come back to life after three days are the gay ones Reverend Fruitcake said he wants to kill every day! Cool! "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:43 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:35 PM:
that technology is here, via scanners, much like the barcode system. add that to the fact that the world is "hungering" for someone that has all the answers, it creates a scenario for the anti-christ more than any other time in history.
the anti-christ will be able to sell himself as a man of "peace", and will appear as if he has the answers, thus fulfilling what the bible PREDICTS about him, "that ALL the world will wander after him". the world is ripe for that to happen on every level - economically, militarily, spiritually, etc.
like i said, what tripped me out the most, and highlighted that it IS Gods word, are those scriptures that talk about the two witnesses of God, who will be murdered by the billy's/robb's of the world, they will lie in the street for 3 days and God will raise them from the dead.....and the WHOLE WORLD will see it. the whole world thru satellite.
Gods-word-is-true........obviously "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:58 AM:
And Aimee, poor dear. She's rocking in her seat mumbling scriptural passages in a vain attempt to bring herself comfort in these End Times.
And Rhodie. Rhodie, you do understand that insisting your claims are true does not actually create that reality, don't you? I appreciate the effort of your post, but the approach doesn't work for Reverend Fruitcake and it won't work for you. "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:53 AM:
Oh goodie a metaphor. Sure a skeptic might ask for you to do it again, because in our understanding the science makes it impossible. There is one word in your metaphor that weakens it's effect though. You only "claim" to have done it.
Lots of people claimed to be the Messiah back in the day. A lot even had followings (there's even a man in So. America claiming he's Jesus now and he's getting a following) but none of them produced the evidence through works that Jesus (the original) did. If he hadn't produced the works then the powers that be at the time would have ignored him knowing he was no threat. "
mike wrote on Sep 26, 2008 10:07 AM:
and I challenge anyone reading through the following blogs to disprove my conjecture that Dan(aka billi) and his lack of religion has caused his insanity.
and no Dan we all know what you do and only the most simple accept it! "
Aimee wrote on Sep 26, 2008 9:56 AM:
Revelation 13: 16-18
There is no doubt that with today's technology, this could become a reality. What I think is interesting, however, is that the number "666" has become synonymous with the concept of pure evil-people today hear this number and think of evil. Thus, for people to accept the mark of the Beast (666) they do so with the full understanding that it is associated with ultimate evil. Thus, to accept the mark is to knowingly accept damnation and a rejection of the gift of salvation. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:00 AM:
Here's a metaphor (Rhodie will even like this because of the metaphor part): If I were to claim to have flown to the moon and back by flapping my arms, a skeptic would be right in asking for proof. "Oh, yeah?" he might say [skeptically], "Prove it - let's see you flap your arms and fly to the corner and back."
I could NOT, as is your habit, prove my claim by yelling and spitting in the skeptics face, screaming that he's evil and a moron and he must, instead, prove that I didn't flap my arms and fly to the moon and back. Abusing, then, his lack of "proof" that my claim is imaginary, strut around with my puny chest out, telling the world "that's what I do."
We all know what you do and only the most simple accept it. "
Robb wrote on Sep 26, 2008 5:48 AM:
I suppose we are at a stalemate here? "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:06 PM:
man up, or you can continue to prove what lying trolls you both are.
real men of integrity finish what they start. "they" don't have to lie, or run and hide. you two are the kings of it in here. well, one of you is the "victim"
DO IT "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 11:01 PM:
The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God").
now that your the current record holder in here on "hits and runs", let's see you man up on this one.
prove it's "incorrect".
but FIRST prove your lie about "no one saw Jesus after the resurrection".
highlighting people lying about God. it's what i do "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:58 PM:
Insisting that everyone believe you isn't proof").
EXACTLY.
so let's see you debate what OTHERS have said on the subject.
all i did was replicate the claims of others. for example the EYEWITNESSES of the foxes book of martyrs who were OPPOSED to Christ.
i didn't say it......THEY DID.
what? are you going to lie about that too, and say it didn't happen/exist?
your a joke..
you don't debate the information. you lie about it and run away like the heinous majorus you are.
even i cannot image how high maintanence you are, as far as the "effort" it takes for you to be a lying drivel. daily lying about your life, while "thinking" you are justifying it. man, that's as ugly as life can get.
your not a "victim" billy. you earned everything your not "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:50 PM:
your whole existence is a lie, so that answer would be no.
all i do is laugh at you, when you claim "i never did", because then it becomes more apparent everytime you post what a loser you intend to be.
a lifelong goal of being a lying loser....like that's some goal to attain. congradulations
your such a pathetic excuse for a human being, that you would lie and blame me because you cannot debate truth.
your a joke, and your not a "victim". everything you AREN'T......you earned.
day in and day out, all you can do now is lie about yourself, others, and your "future".
you are a case study in the most futile aspect of all of life.
what a waste of a human being "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:43 PM:
The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone").
that's a straight up lie.
over 500 people witnessed him AFTER his resurrection, and how about this for bonus points you cannot refute.....scholars who were OPPOSED to Christ/Christianty wrote about Christ POST resurrection.
like i wrote about the book "foxes book of martyrs" ....that details the torture/murder of Christians. some of those "details" were written by men OPPOSED to Christ.
your a liar, or i am a liar.
no let's see you prove what really happened.
i bet you chicken out of that one too, and lie and blaim me.
i am so sick and tired of these morons lying and NOT being willing to back up thier garbage.
what a great place to be at in life where you HAVE to lie about your position. puke.
and NO i don't apologize for saying the truth about these people. you come here making claims with respect, and you handle your business, i am cool with you. you lie and play your hit and run trash, i will make sure you get your "due" "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:41 PM:
But, where is your proof? You STILL have offered none.
Remember, raving isn't proof. Name-calling isn't proof. Insisting that everyone believe you isn't proof.
And, by the bye, for someone who once had a near-stroke when I [correctly] called him an "End-Times" christian wacko, you sure seem to have flip-flopped into that category nicely. LOL.
Thanks for once again displaying your insanity so vibrantly. "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:31 PM:
" * God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth").
you sure about that?
how about i challenge you on that one, after you explain what you mean by "physical existence".
think you can handle your business as a man for once after making statements? or are you going to run and hide after i challenge you on it?
(i think i know the outcome already) "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:26 PM:
" I have No preconceived notion on the afterlife, I have No idea whether there is or not, either way, it does not matter, my work is here and now. ").
that's where you have been lied TO...
rediculous if there is a God, that "only this life matters", seeing how God lives in eternity past and future.
even apart from Christianity type beliefs, ANY notion of any God one MUST consider eternity to be far more important than this life, especially given the FACT that people die young.
just on a common sense basis, if there is a God, and this life was the one that mattered over "eternity", God would have placed more emphasis on the length/quality of THIS life. it is so obvious that God places more emphasis on eternity, than here, because he allows things we call "inequitable" to happen.
same with Jesus Christ. the emphasis was this life was transitory, the next being our "goal".
anybody that says this life is what's important, is a fool, and only says so for self seeking immediate pleasure purposes "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:16 PM:
" too little, too late, many others read into your bible differently than you, who is right? ").
read it for yourself, and tell me it doesn't say PLAINLY about the two witnesses lying in the street, and a one world govt/currency exchange. there are no "interpretive" issues.
face it. your an integrity midget that you can't even answer the charge to debate the information. all you can do is pull billyitis and lie that "it didn't happen".
all you can still offer is your weak "too little, too late".
what moron answers a debate about history with that response?
read what i said the bible says about what will happen in revelation, and THEN tell me it doesn't. then let's watch you lie about it. your "integrity" won't allow you to get that far. "it" will lie to you and excuse it away. some truth seeker you are.
remember robb, there is one FACT you cannot lie about.....it was written in 90 a.d. "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:08 PM:
it's the heinous majorus that beckons billy, and "steers" him mercilessly into the lying and damage of true life.
hey billy, what about history? are you going to lie "it didn't happen" again?
billy knows he lies, and could CARE LESS. damage. that's billy's game - damage. damage anything opposed to his justification majorus, even if he has to hit and run and lie about it.
if the guy ever debated history, i would drop dead.
is that an incentive billy?
if you have to lie, YOU DON'T HAVE A POSITION IN LIFE "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:05 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 10:02 PM:
" And I am less abusive than you... ").
you sure have a twisted way of adding up what's what in life.
what your saying is that you consistently lying about yourself and history is "better" than me being straight up and calling you what you are, just because i am a Christian?
for far too long robb, you lulled yourself to a bogus "victory" thinking you could silence Christians, and Christians were supposed to be doormats who couldn't tell the harsh truths about peoples intentions such as yours.
that was, until you met me.
i tell the truth, then you lie about it.
there is nothing more "abusive" than lying about historical facts about God.
congradulations.....winner winner chicken dinner.
speaking of chicken, you never ONCE addressed my claims about history, opting instead to run away from THEM, and created your own deflection "list".
"less abusive". who are you kidding robb? you create scenarios you can't handle, then you spill your superlatives onto me, as to why you didn't.
straight up......ad "chicken" to "pinnochio" on your true resume.
the-truths-of-life-belong-to-those-that-love-it, not-to-those-who-lie-about-it "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 9:48 PM:
ONLY God can accuretely predict the future everytime.
in the end time scenario, the bible predicted a one world government, and only one "currency" to buy and sell goods. BOTH those scenarios are NOW possible, and have been discussed/considered. the one financial ability to buy and sell was already spelled out around 90 a.d by the written word of the apostle john, where he wrote that the only means a person could buy/sell during those times, was by a "mark" on the right hand or forehead. that technology is here NOW via scanners/implants.
even more impressive are the two witnesses who "the whole world is watching", being murdered and after lying in the street for 3 days, God raises them back to life. that technology is here because of satellite television. an impossibility a few years ago.
the bible IS of God, because only God foresee's the future.
no facts? the bible is so full of factual proof about God, only a fool says there is none "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 9:34 PM:
surely the financial collapse alone demonstrated "who" is really in control "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:48 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:46 PM:
" Last I saw the final evidence could niether confirm or deny it's origin due to the fires from it's past and bacteria present that distort the carbon dating."
Just a bit of extra work for anyone who wants to read up on it.
http://www.shroudstory.com/ "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:43 PM:
When you called yourself an "Ordained minister" I had incorrectly assumed (and we all know what that makes me) it was through a Christian denomination, even loosely.
So, since you are an ordained minister, Robb. What is your belief about the afterlife? Is there one or is this it? Is there a good place to go and a bad place? Are there any consequences to our actions here? "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:30 PM:
Now, Robb, I'm a little confused. Didn't you claim on a post that you were ordained a minister? That was you right? "
Rhodie wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:25 PM:
As for AIDS, what is it you want? To wake up in the morning and see it is all gone? That magically, overnight ALL diseases have vanished from the world? What makes AIDS more important to you that it be stopped than TB? Cholera? Influenza? Heart disease? Obesity?
Maybe AIDS is doing just what it is suppose to be doing for the human race. Motivating all of us as a collective planet to work together for a cure. Could it be that what we learn now by working together and eventually, finally beating this disease creates a planetary feeling of "we did something good together, we wonder what else we could do?"
Don't be so singularly minded as to think that what we want is what is best for us. We all, except for a few fanatics, want AIDS gone. But it could be the fight to end it that we need. "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:24 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:16 PM:
" * God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
* None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either."
The shroud of Torin?
"When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."
In that case our federal government doesn't exist either (just keeping it light here.) "Statistics" are only as accurate as the people interpriting them. You say they show God doesn't answer prayers, other would claim they show he does. PLUS, God is not a "yes" man, out there to do our bidding whenever we ask, but only when it falls into His will, which I grant you is beyond our understanding and can leave us confused.
* Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God."
Are you sure about that? Do you realize, historically, how simple it would have been for us to lose WWII? the "instinct" of a a few men saved the war for us on D-Day while "Confusion" led to troops being in the wrong places for "them". "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 2:56 PM:
* None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.
* God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.
* The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.
* The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.
* When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."
* Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.
* And so on "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 2:51 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:55 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:53 PM:
it WAS easy.
not if he didn't exist, or it didn't happen, it should be easily provable, so do it......thru factual history.
lying about something isn't a conclusion OR a position....it's an excuse to be a moron.
shoot, if being a moron is your lifelong goal, who am i to detour you?
well billy, tell us your lies again, and fall all over yourself claiming your a "victim" "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:49 PM:
let's see you debate it, instead of your usual moronic lying about it and pretending it didn't happen.
you can't lie about something, and call that a defense. well you can, because that's all you do.
you have to actually debunk it FACTUALLY/HISTORICALLY, which you have never done in two years.
for the record, billy said over and over that Jesus Christ never existed in the first place, that HE is only a "MYTH". but, he never ONCE backed up that claim HISTORICALLY.
anybody that has to lie, is a moron.
here goes billy in his lying pretend it didn't happen heinous justification world. drum roll please..... "
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:44 PM:
real facts wrote on Sep 25, 2008 1:14 PM:
" Lie # 6.. you have given NO facts.. ").
your right, that IS your 6th lie. (lol)
anytime you want to debunk what i have given as not being historical fact, swing away robb.
right now you have reduced yourself to nothing more than a liar of reality AND the facts. now, you have firmly placed yourself in billy/lodian land, where you can't defend your position, so you lie about mine. all you do now is make false statements you cannot qualify.
let's see you debate my claims, instead of wussing out.
Jesus Christ riding into jerusalem on a donkey pronouncing himself to be the messiah happened 483 years TO THE DAY it was predicted it would. on the EXACT DAY the bible said the messiah would.
prove that's not a historical fact robb, because anybody that makes the statements you make is a moron if he doesn't. in fact, your nwo a card carrying member of the moron club in here, because now your not the only one that lies and says history isn't "factual".
congradulations......(your-not-"peaceful"-like-you-claim) "
Billy Rubin wrote on Sep 25, 2008 8:51 AM:
If it is so easily proven, why not conclude your rant by doing so? Amaze us. Bring us to our knees. Leave us agog with your proof.
Raving that it is true, or raving that you have already "proven" it is only raving and nothing more. Raving is not proof.
If it is easily provable, you should find it easy to do, right? Please do so. "
Aimee wrote on Sep 25, 2008 8:49 AM:
Aimee wrote on Sep 25, 2008 8:48 AM:
Sort of a thread derailment here and off-topic....
I'm interested in hearing your opinion regarding the current political, religious, and economic crises and if you believe they have a part to play in biblical prophecy, if you're would like to share your thoughts.
Thanks. "
Robb wrote on Sep 25, 2008 7:24 AM:
real facts wrote on Sep 24, 2008 7:55 PM:
UNarmed people, are people who take swipes at other people on blogs, and then run away when they are challenged to debate (that would be you). "unarmed people" aren't able to replicate historical facts robb (that would be me).
for the record, EVERYTIME i threw out historical fact, you squeeled and ran, blaiming me for doing so. a real man with "peaceful" intent wouldn't have squeeled and ran.....he would have stood his ground and debated the issue. not you though. what's TRUTH significant, is you can't finish what YOU start....now that's being "unarmed"
*************************************
a little "reminder" of my "un-armedness".......
robb wrote -----> "bible crap".
my response ----> good career choice robb, considering that the bible is easily provable as being from God.
throw in a little science, mathematics, archaeology (ask billy), eyewitness accounts from people OPPOSED to Jesus Christ, and eyewitness accounts of over 500 people witnessing Christ POST resurrection.....and there is more than enough PROOF to make anyone gag that calls it "crap".
you suffer from a condition known as allwindandnosailitis "
real facts wrote on Sep 24, 2008 7:44 PM:
you have witnessed me spotlight peoples integrity spillage before, so for you to think you could have slid yourself past me, is a tribute to your futile thinking.
anybody that rejects Christ after he raises HIMSELF from the dead, and fulfills over 300 prophecies (which is nearly incalcuable), isn't playing the integrity game to begin with. being straight up, given those historical FACTS, you would have to lie to yourself and others that Christ isn't God
***************************************
robb wrote; "do battle with an unarmed person".
lie #5. do you even proof read before you post?
there isn't too many people in this world that i can't hold my own against on ANY subject matter, so even apart from Christianity, your statement about me is a self admission that you don't have the goods to counter what i expound on in here.
you can lie to yourself all you want, but the facts remain, you lied about who you are, and now your blaiming me.
anytime you want to match intellect for purposes that REALLY matter in life, you know where to find me "
Robb wrote on Sep 24, 2008 5:04 PM:
i will no longer do battle with an unarmed person, I pity you, I feel sorry for you. &quo