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Lodi pastor: Gay marriage didn't cause wildfires
Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:30 AM PDT
Some in our community have written letters to the News-Sentinel suggesting that the wildfires in California are a result of God's judgment on our state for the state Supreme Court's legalization of gay marriage.
As a pastor, I would caution all of us against making such claims.
Jesus directly addressed the issue of whether disasters mean that God is judging in Luke 13:1-5: "Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. "Jesus answered, 'Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those 18 who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them — do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.' "
Jesus indicates that it is dangerous and wrong to jump to conclusions about the relationship between disasters, whether caused by human evil or by accident, and the sins of any particular group of people.
This does not mean that we are not all guilty of turning away from God and are all in need of salvation, but it does mean we should not jump to the role of prophet and claim to know how God is working through such events.
Some prominent Christian TV personalities made comments after the Katrina hurricane that I found embarrassing and dishonoring to Christ. One claimed that since Ellen Degeneres is from New Orleans, was chosen to host the Academy Awards and is a lesbian, therefore Katrina was a judgment on New Orleans and Hollywood for that choice.
That was an outrageous conclusion and simply made all Christians look like narrow-minded, judgmental people in the eyes of the watching world. It certainly did not make anyone in Hollywood or New Orleans take notice and repent.
There is plenty of sin in the world, and we do not wish to overlook it. But we who are Christians would have a more positive effect on the world if we paid more attention to following the example of Jesus who was well known as a friend of sinners and socialized with tax collectors and prostitutes without condoning their particular sins.
The apostle Paul asked the Corinthian church, "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? (1 Corinthians 5:12)"
Instead, our business should be to love, serve and accept others and in that way have an opportunity to share the truly good news of Jesus Christ's love for all.
Steve Newman is senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Lodi.
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mainframe wrote on Aug 8, 2008 11:45 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 8, 2008 6:59 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:16 PM:
voter wrote on Aug 8, 2008 2:47 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:35 PM:
romans 1:32
"who, knowing the righteous judgement of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those that practice them" "
real facts wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:30 PM:
everytime i take billy to task, and point out his perverted angle of attack in here, he crawls back under a rock for a bit. that is until you people don't say anything to him about it, sometimes even high fiving him over it. that emboldens him to do it more.
yep. that makes anyone in here that does, an accessory to his crime.
good luck on having to answer to God on that one.
anger and opposition is one thing....perversion is a whole different animal "
real facts wrote on Aug 8, 2008 1:12 PM:
what's sad is people like you high fiving a guy like that when he perverts something pure, and something you claim to love.
if someone has a difference of opinion, that's fine. but when you have to twist peoples words around into a form of perversion, that's sick.
anybody who high fives billy after he does, is an accessory to his crime. by high fiving him, you are sending him the message that what he says and does is right. that makes you, and everyone else that does, an accessory to his crime. i wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of high fiving perversion, and giving it a free pass "
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:39 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:38 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:19 PM:
your speaking for voter now? i didn't know that. next time i will direct all my comments to voter thru you. cool?
"reverend clean bowels" (laughing).
i was thinking this morning how you pervert everything you touch in here. you take something thats pure, and pervert it. like the time i explained to the board that i don't hate gay people, telling them about how i make sure i talk to the that young gay man at the fast food place, because alot of people in this town wouldn't, because he is gay. what do YOU do? you turn it around and pervert my intent. your a sick puppie billy. telling me to sell my daughter into sexual slavery pretty much demonstrated how far your perversion has taken you.....straight to the bottom.
your lucky i keep myself in check, that i don't come at you like you do me. i could have a field day at your expense given your homosexuality. what's more pathetic? watching as others high five your perversion "
Lodian wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:08 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:54 PM:
:0) "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:48 PM:
No comment needed - no explanation. "
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:44 PM:
I got the peace peace peace peace down in my heart, down in my heart.....
everybody sing!!! "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:36 PM:
no comment ? "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:34 PM:
it is not a sin to be a mexican, but it is a sin to commit homosexual sex without a conscience about it.
combining both areas of life, it would be a sin to be prejudiced against either, as if "we" are better than them, and having no compassion for ANYONE a person wrongly feels "they" are different than "us".
everybody is the same in the eyes of God. but equally everyone is responsible before God for their sin. NO ONE is exempt from sin in any "category" of life. "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:28 PM:
" I think I'll continue my way of looking at things and take my chances").
actually, i like the way you look at things :)
at least you show a willingness to learn and adjust. those ARE the qualities that define a person who is FOLLOWING after Christ, not merely giving lip service like they are "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 5:25 PM:
" I might be standing next to Billy in the end... you too realfacts. I really don't think you know it all").
we might be, if billy comes to Christ. if he doesn't, well you know...
i really know....i don't even come close to "knowing it all".
but what i DO know about Christ, i am decisive and sure about, and it's that quality that gives strength. it's amazing to watch the ambivilence of people toward God and eternal matters, garnering a "maybe" / only a guess at eternal life. how sad "
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:39 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:33 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 3:31 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:02 PM:
After Reverend Prune drinks his dose of salts preparing himself for eternal life, he won't be as much of a distraction. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:14 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:00 PM:
shine the exterior of a "penny" (person) all you want, it still won't purify what's internal. only God can do that. external "cleaning" doesn't lead to eternal life. only "internal cleaning" can "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:54 AM:
" Who was it who said "My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend."?
I think it was Robb. Great line. ").
actually, thats a terrible "line", because it underhandedly sells the notion that it doesn't matter who God really is, and that debate about it is a waste of time. when in fact, it's the most important discussion one can and should have.
someday you must choose sam. choosing to stand up for what is right "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:49 AM:
" How do you clean a dirty penny? Can it ever get shiny again? Once it's dirty can you ever put it in a collection. like a old wheat, can it be polished for a collection? ").
only God can clean that "penny", because only God can clean from the inside out. but if a person continues to mock God (the only one that CAN clean him/her), that "penny" will only get dirtier.
billy's deterioration (by choice) is on the accelerated program "
real facts wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:46 AM:
more evidence of your perversion running amok, and rotting your soul.
cracks me up, that just because people in here that don't like, give you a free pass despite your sick analogies. not only do you mock God once again, you purposefully lie about tarditional/biblical Christianity that produces the most healthy children on the planet.
yeah, your here for altruistic reasons.
your sick "
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:42 AM:
LOL... sorry I stole that from you, Ivan. :-) "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:30 AM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:27 AM:
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:25 AM:
and WY, keep shining up those tarnished pennies. "
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:48 AM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:45 AM:
This always makes me giggle. :-) "
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:43 AM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:42 AM:
girard: I could be wrong, but I would guess that they (referring to gay people) are fine with the beliefs of others until those beliefs infringe on their rights to live and love just like the rest of us. Some gay people will become more irate than others (just like any other segment of society), but the foundation of their frustration, and being oppressed, are the same when people use religion to bar them from their civil rights. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:53 AM:
I think it was Robb. Great line. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:50 AM:
Again, my hero. and a Peace Out to you too. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:49 AM:
Peace out. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM:
We know better than they do an our the smugness we feel as we force them to live according to our religious preferences and to marry according to our moral laws is just evidence of God's infinite grace with which he rewards us for our fight against their so called freedoms.
I'm behind you 548.39%. Keep up the good faith and don't let the liberal scum forget that your better than they are. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM:
Pour Apple Cider Vinegar into a small container drop penny in and wait till it looks clean ( do not leave in to long) rinse rub on a baking soda paste rinse, dry and polish lightly with a soft cloth. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:47 AM:
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:47 AM:
Simply place your pennies into a shallow dish and cover them with lemon juice and salt.
Wait a few minutes, rinse and serve. No rubbing required. (The dots you see on the 'After' penny were caused by air bubbles in the lemon juice. Be forwarned!) "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:46 AM:
The use of vinegar and salt to clean pennies goes way back. It works on the same principle as using ketchup (Ketchup contains vinegar, salt and tomatoes), but there is less rubbing involved.
Mix up a concoction of vinegar and salt. Stir it around to dissolve the salt and then dump in your dirty pennies. Mix it up a bit and let it sit for several minutes. You will be able to see the cleaning process in action.
Scrub lightly with a toothbrush to get the especially gritty areas. Rinse and spit. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:45 AM:
The 'Ol Ketchup technique is a time-tested standard for collectors. Simply grab a bottle of ketchup from the fridge and rub a little onto the penny.
For the best results, use a toothbrush (your spouse's works best) and scrub the surface lightly to work the ketchup into all the tight areas.
Rinse the penny (and the toothbrush) and you will notice that it is now dull and pink. Not to worry. We are not finished yet.
Now pour some baking soda into a small dish and add some water to make a thick paste. Rub that all over the penny with your fingers to bring back the shine. "
sam wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:45 AM:
This first technique uses a standard pencil eraser. Just start rubbing. The gunk will slowly be removed revealing a shiny new finish.
For better results and less carpal tunnel pain, attach a short pencil to a standard variable-speed drill. Electric erasors are also available at any drafting supply store. They use long strips of erasor so you won't waste a bunch of pencils.
The final result will be a well-earned, gleaming penny. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:40 AM:
Unfortunately, such behavior only makes them look petty, small and terribly unintelligent. Pity.
Great post!!! I'm with you 548.39% Mr Girard. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:31 AM:
Unfortunately, such behavior only makes them look petty, small and terribly unintelligent. Pity. "
WY wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:15 AM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:57 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:09 AM:
Crucifying children has been a tradition among the most faithful Christians for generations in an effort to emulate the Great One (and every person who wants to sit for eternity among the Real Facts of the world wants to be more like Him).
It has only been recently, since the unfortunate takeover by liberals, that good conservatives have sometimes run afoul of man's law when it comes to the loving application of sound parenting techniques.
Any great religious zealot can tell you they know how best to raise healthy, well adjusted chidren. Spare the spikes and spoil the child. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Aug 7, 2008 6:44 AM:
Would any one of us permit our own child to be put to death in the most horrific manner by and for the most vile and contemptible people among us? Any Christian 'knows' that this is precisely what God did
Amen to that Brother! Another great post.
Did you see that book that came out a couple of years ago called "Raising Your Kids the Yahweh Way" by Victor T. Kahn? There were some lawsuits after the first couple crucifixions and I think it went out of print but it is a great read.
We may question some of God's works (the platypus and the sea cucumber come to mind) but nobody can say that he didn't hit that parenting nail straight on the head (so to speak). "
real facts wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:15 PM:
"The dirty penneis are blessings the same as the shiney ones. It makes no difference".
it spells out perfectly how God loves his creation, and how we should. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:21 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:41 AM:
WY wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:36 AM:
My jar overflows. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:11 AM:
While I already knew that I have my own issues (not doubts) with God, this book has been incredibly helpful in opening my eyes to just how He desires to exist within our lives. Of course since this is a work of fiction and subject to the failings of the man who wrote it, when compared to my own life and how I have managed my relationships it has been an unbelievable few weeks. Clearly, having seven or so other men providing their input on how their lives have transpired has only raised the level of understanding on my part as to what my relationships with God and others 'should' be.
I would recommend 'The Shack' (and group discussion) to anyone desiring to take a serious inward view of their own lives and the relationships that we all value. Just a thought. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:34 AM:
Would any one of us permit our own child to be put to death in the most horrific manner by and for the most vile and contemptible people among us? Any Christian 'knows' that this is precisely what God did.
For me, there is absolutely no way that I would ever allow that to happen. I would undoubtedly offer to take my child's place (and then gladly do it); but to actually stand by and permit it to occur in order to salvage those who hate me (and my child) to their absolute cores? Nope. Not me. That is just part of God's love, albeit the most poignant part in my opinion.
For those who do not believe, this should have no effect. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:52 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:57 PM:
If everyone feels the same feeling in regard to their personal faith, how can we place one reality/deity over another?").
much like the answer about agape love, God defines it, we bow to that definition and incorporate it. anything short of that, is a "feeling". your smart enough to know voter, that feelings and emotions can lie to a person, telling them something is right, when it isn't.
how can you place one deity over another? by bowing to who God has differentiated himself to be, and he HAS in history. for those who have never heard of Jesus Christ as that door, i know Gods character to be fair and loving, and he would judge a man's heart as to whether it was truly after him, faking like they were, or hated him, and the reward of that would be just.
appealing to your common sense voter, you know it an impossibility that if there is a God, he was somehow "incapable" of telling us EXACTLY who he is. any man that doesn't know, doesn't want to know "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:44 PM:
nope, billy doesn't mock God, just like he said. no, he didn't just try and rip the faith out of your heart by mocking what YOU believe WY. billy knows full well you believe in that word, yet he purposefully tried to underhandedly disuade you away from it by saying "that God has never heard of".
i told you. pure evil driven by hatred, fueled by self justification. the guy can't respect ANYBODY'S faith. can't control himself, and thats a fact.
maybe now you can see why i deal with him the way i do. pure opposition toward God. has ZERO inclination toward God, nor the respect of others who do "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:36 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:29 PM:
" I guess I feel Him more than I've studied Him. ").
i guarantee you with 100% certainty, that what you said is worth 1,000 times more than "book knowledge".
churches are filled with people who know ALOT about Christ, but few that possess the heart to follow him.
it's not what you know, but who you know....and what you do with the knowledge that you DO posses about HIM at the time. it will never be about "how much" you know "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:24 PM:
wrong again.
completely discounting the influence of any man, and shoving aside that "man made book", it's obvious to anyoone that not seeking to justify their autonomy apart FROM God, knows there is a God. all that other stuff just soldifies that and backs that up. you excuse away God, because you knwo if you let me in, something will most likely have to change. and so you make up arguements against that even common sense couldn't justify.
in the end...."we" know. and in the end....you will know too. how foolish is your choice if you are wrong? "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:17 PM:
thats code for; anybody that tells you that what i do is sin, must be a liar.
if there is no man on this planet that knows how God works, that's only possible if there was no God. God spoke to men throughout history (and continues to do so) about who he is, and what he wants. billy just attempted to completely discount Gods ability to make himself known, because if billy can accomplish that, billy can do what ever he wants and define it as "good".
bad news for you billy. God spoke to man, and showed himself TO man thru various means including creation, and that APART from any document. your singing that song to yourself, and anyone else that seeks to justify behavior opposite of what God stated. this is where i remind you that homosexuality has never been accepted ever in the history of the world "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:08 PM:
OK, here's the secret...
Nobody knows").
no billy, even YOU know there is a God, and you feverishly try everyday to squash HIM from your life, so that you can justify your God opposite choices. just because you stick your fingers in your ears, doesn't mean history doesn't show exactly who God is. HE DID. unfortunately for you, God DID show us who he was, so that no one can excuse himself away any longer. that event trumps any and all emotions as to who God is, or if he exists at all. "feelings" don't define God. history does. by that statement to WY, you just demonstrated who you really are.....an evil little troll looking to rip the faith out of everyone in your way.....even WY.
no billy, you don't hate God. God haters don't try and strip others of their faith. no, your mission in here is pure isn't it? all you have ever done in here is attempt to rip the faith out of people. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:36 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:23 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:14 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:08 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:49 PM:
Let's sit here quietly and listen to his silliness... "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:39 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:35 PM:
Does he read these hate blogs populated by these would-be-gods?
All I know,WY,is the idiots that hang out here, standing on their pile of bibles pointing at everyone else yelling "DAMNED IMMORAL SINNER!!!" are over-compensating.
None of them has a clue what they're talking about.
I, however, can tell you the secret you seek.
I can tell you and I will.
Are you ready?
Scooch closer to the monitor.
Closer.
Ready?
OK, here's the secret...
Nobody knows.
That's it.
That's all.
All the talent in the freakshow that posts here has no idea. All they know is what mortal men told them or what they think they learned in a man-made book. In the end, they don't know.
You know who comes closest?
Voter.Voter gets it.
You know why I know that?
Because Voter doesn't claim to know all about God.
Voter asks thoughtful questions (that the Christian Taliban immediately dismiss).
The answer you must be satisfied with already resides inside you, WY. Anybody who tells you they know the facts of know how God works is a liar. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:20 PM:
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:16 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 5:56 PM:
" I know the story where he over turned the tables on the steps of the temple. I want to know how Jesus handled gay people? or is there a difference between gays and straight to Him?").
now YOUR differentiating between sin. makes NO difference whether it's homo or hetero sexual sin. if you want to know how Christ handles gays, all you have to do is see how he handles anybody that won't repent of sin, that purposefully mocks God and seeks to justify sin. what does Jesus have to say about that-behavior-WY..??? "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 5:50 PM:
" I know the story where he over turned the tables on the steps of the temple. I want to know how Jesus handled gay people? or is there a difference between gays and straight to Him? or is a heart just a heart to Him? An a soul a soul. Was the whore that came to him turned away? hmmm? From my understanding she wasn't. And I think , if memories serves me, She was embraced with His love").
the woman repented of her sin, after God pointed out her-sin....billy-mocks-God-and-could-care-less-about-anything-BUT-justifying-his-sin....God-embraces-those-that-allow-for-his-love----therein-lies-the-difference "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:57 PM:
My response to WY's question in this regard wasn't based upon anything other than what I believed (and still do); however, as with all things there are other definitions and/or interpretations for the 'same' thing. How she decides on this matter is, of course up to her.
Because WY indicated to me that she was new in her Christian life, I suggested that she take her concerns off-line and search out better qualified people to answer those questions. Anywhere on the Internet, there is absolutely no assurance of anyone's motives regarding virtually anything. For something as vitally important as one's salvation, I hope she takes that advice. "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:46 PM:
Geez, I thought you were upset with the monkey comment. I feel better. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:42 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:40 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:39 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:37 PM:
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:37 PM:
Man and his spirituality is personal and it is something he has to buy into and believe for it to become part of his being. "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:31 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:30 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:29 PM:
voter wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:28 PM:
In my travels, I have met indigenous peoples in remote places with some interesting deities and worship practices. I have met Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and people whose faith combines Catholocism with their native beliefs (Haitians and Incans). In all cases, people report intense spiritual experiences, prayers answered, and/or love from their God, or a spiritual connection with the universe or a higher power. If everyone feels the same feeling in regard to their personal faith, how can we place one reality/deity over another? What is the explanation for this phenomena, other than the innate human need for spiritual connection? "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:28 PM:
We could do a 3 way "get 'er done" party. I am gain. I am free... you pay Shell and buy me lunch... hee hee
But lock that monkey up. I do not like him.. sam I am. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:26 PM:
I know He doesn't like it when we throw our chores to the waist side. oups... I think I'll be OK this time being we yammered about Him all day.
I HAVE to go! for reals "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:26 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:24 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:22 PM:
Billy... I forgot. The He changed water to wine. What's up with that? He liked to have fun and laugh. He wore a smock and sandles. Ya gotta love that! "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:17 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:15 PM:
Now... the dishes "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:13 PM:
Trust your heart. "
sam wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:10 PM:
1. the love of God or Christ for humankind.
2. the love of Christians for other persons, corresponding to the love of God for humankind.
3. unselfish love of one person for another without sexual implications; brotherly love. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:02 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:59 PM:
This is why I suggest you speak with someone face-to-face about these questions that you need answered. I'm afraid that here you may end up being pushed around for the benefit of someone else's agenda. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:52 PM:
I'm charged now, and want to read for myself. I can't possible debate the word. Merely strive to understand . "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:43 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:20 PM:
I only attempted to reinforce the fact that murder is a sin, in spite of others who insist that it is not. Obviously I didn't understand your thoughts in this regard. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:18 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:14 PM:
This is the heart and soul of the gift provided by God through the crucifixion of Jesus. The 'eternal life' to which the verse refers is living with God (in Heaven) after our lives here are done. By choosing not to believe in him (Jesus), the result is eternal separation from God; not in Heaven.
Actually this is specific to our existence for eternity; not something that Christians take lightly at all. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:03 PM:
I will reread what you both have offered. Time to move on with my day...sorry I have to go. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:54 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:52 PM:
What exactly are you trying to find? I am somewhat confused. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:51 PM:
Of course 'murder' is a sin - no matter how one slices it. That's why there are those who believe the death penalty should be abolished. But our Constitution dictates otherwise. There are many conflicts between our 'faith' and our 'citizenship.' But God is clear as to how we are to react to man's law by teaching us to 'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's' (Mark 12:17). We are taught that this does not just relate to the subject of taxes, but to the following of the law as well. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:44 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:43 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:41 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:38 PM:
oups... there's that love thingy again. A whore is a perverse profession ... right? if a man can give a whore money for sex why not just give her the money. She doesn't want to be a whore she wants to feed her children. How about that story? Is her sin any different than that of a homo? Tell me please the dif? "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:31 PM:
" What book what cahpter what verse? ").
i will give you two hints, and that will be a starting point. if this is important enough to you to find out the truth about how Christ truly handled people, you will take the time to dig thru the gospels yourself. if i do it for you, it won't mean nearly as much. plus all the peripheral stuff you will read on the way there. use a concordance. (1) money changers (2) pharisee's. there are more... "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:31 PM:
Keep in mind, this is according to Christianity. Other faiths have their understanding as to what the requirements are for obtaining fellowship with God.
Romans 3:23 and John 3:16 might help. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:28 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:23 PM:
" mnufacture behavior? for pete sakes! there is more than one type of sin. right? sin is sin").
maybe a bad choice of words. since some in here contend that gays are "born" that way, i was simply stating that it is impossible for God to create someone TO sin (by creating them as a gay individual), and then turning right around and condemning homosexual sex. thats impossible for God to do. sin is sin, yes. and EVERY sin is a choice, no matter what it is "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:22 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:21 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:21 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:19 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:17 PM:
Actually, Christian teachings are very clear as to who will enter Heaven. Again, this is part of the faith. And, once again - for those who do not believe in God, Jesus, etc., just why is it such a problem? As this argument has gone on for days, any response to that question has yet to be forthcoming. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:17 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:17 PM:
what you need to do for YOU.....is read the gospel accounts of the way Jesus handled people. you will find he loved the sinner, but hated the sin, and encouraged those that CHOSE to, to repent. then read what he did and said when obvious opposition to God was in HIS presence. it wasn't pretty. you should read it to gain a balance "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:14 PM:
Why do you think I'm being 'snide' toward you? You brought up an interesting take on the matter; I simply responded with my thoughts and questions. My point is that we are all responsible for our actions; the 'perception' of threat (as is really the only type that can occur on these blogs) should be dealt with accordingly. Excusing away of aberrant behavior in this manner is inherently dangerous; where is the stopping point?
If you feel that I was being discourteous, I do apologize. That was not my intent. "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:12 PM:
It doesn't mean the heart is dead and can't be retrieved. It's up to me and you,realfacts, to retrieve it").
only God really knows if the heart has gone too far. billy has displayed that un-relenting behavior for as long as he has been here. love is important, but i know for a fact that God chooses truth over love. i will treat with respect those that i know are "searching". to the enemies of God, you have met your match. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:08 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:07 PM:
" real facts, I am glad you do not hate them. I have heard that gay teen suicide attempts are four times that of heterosexual youth. I can understand why").
i can understand why too. breaks my heart.....which is why i went out of my way to explain that i don't hate gay people in another thread, explaining that i made sure that whenever i went to a certain restaurant in town and encountered a young man there that was gay, i made sure to talk with him and treat him with respect.....which-billy-in-here-lied-about,...and-turned-it-into-something-perverted....thats-why-i-oppose-billy-so-much....that-evil-garbage-that-for-now-defines-him "
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:06 PM:
I instantly flashed on my gay friends, married with kids... The "Mom" is more feminine than my Mom would ever dream of being.
I am not making fun of your blog at all. I just smiled at the flash your comment gave me. Take care. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:05 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:01 PM:
Now... my house is a pit. I have to go for now. I need a rope and caribeaners the climb the laundry pile. peace out "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:01 PM:
" WY, why would anyone choose it???").
why would someone choose to destroy thier lives with drugs or alchohol?
there are obviously some extremely difficult circumstances some of US have faced growing up, to where we acted out in certain ways so as to deal with those circumstances or events. i am sensitive to those who struggle from those situations. but people have a responsibility over time to choose a path that God has determined. some people for different reasons make excuses so as to not have to deal with the difficulty of change.....so-they-then-seek-to-justify-their-behaviors...it's-a-choice.....God-never-made-anyone-"gay".....God-would-never-manufacture-behavior-he-calls-sin....(or-any-behavior-someone-tries-to-justify) "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:58 PM:
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:55 PM:
I cannot imagine having all that hate focused on me.
I have heard that gay teen suicide attempts are four times that of heterosexual youth. I can understand why. "
Interesting wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:52 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:52 PM:
" real facts... maybe not here on the blog. As a Mature Christian, you should have seen pain. Angry people are hurt people. You should have recognized this standing there with the Good Book. It's easy to see. ").
i can tell over time the difference between hurt, and hate toward God without conscience. and over time, billy has demonstarted he isn't the least bit interested in anything BUT hating on God. thats a fact WY. look at the difference i display toward you, even after you have lashed out at-me....i-am-patient-but-forthright...fully-understanding-your-heart-----billy-is-180degrees-opposite-of-that "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:48 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:43 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:42 PM:
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:42 PM:
God bless you and your brother. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:41 PM:
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:39 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:39 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:38 PM:
" Realfacts... yeah, that's not good. That's what happens when people are backed into a corner. They swing franticlly. What might have happened if he were embraced instead of slammed?").
but thats NOT what happened. from his beginning at LNS, billy is the one that came out swinging. filled pages in the dicussion forum on his hatred laced with mocking God. no one "backed him into a corner". the guy ran free, until he met me. the truth is, billy doesn't want anything to do with being "embraced".....he-just-wants-a-fight-----a-fight-based-on-his-hatred-against-God-for-opposing-some-of-his-choices "
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:37 PM:
Some people say the gay life style is a chosen life style. I can not see why anyone would choose a life stlye where they constantly would have to put up with people's hate. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:37 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:36 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:33 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:32 PM:
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:29 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:27 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:25 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:24 PM:
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:22 PM:
WY, I guess you could answer that too, having a gay brother. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:21 PM:
I'm going to do it the way I understand it. You can all Bible beat the non christian in need. Not me. I suck at times but I want for more in my character. I want for God to say well done when I come face to face. I want Him to say "man... that one guy was tough but you held on to him for me. Well done" If I could bring just One to Him. Just one. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:13 PM:
That word 'never' should be 'ever.' I gotta watch for those double negatives. "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:12 PM:
no, you don't mock God. of course not.
not as blatant and nasty as the other times where you mocked God, but a veiled mock-job none the less.
not to worry. i will find more examples "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:10 PM:
And how many of us have obeyed each and every one? At the heart of Christianity is the belief that God cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, something had to be done in order for that to be corrected; so that we could once again come face-to-face with God after we leave this world. Jesus' life and most important his death, was the solution to that very serious problem.
While there is no expectation that we will never be anything but sinful, by accepting what Jesus did as a gift for us, we should then attempt to be more like Christ in how we conduct our lives here. It really is that simple.
However, there is much more to the Christian lifestyle than the salvation we receive upon 'joining up.' And that is where the ire and hatred are drawn from those who believe Christianity to be hateful and divisive. Actually, it is the most inclusive organization that I have ever known. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:09 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:03 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:03 PM:
hoping WY would buy your two-step around who you really are? going for the sympathetic vote now that i am back in here painting/exposing your true motives in here? not so fast billy.
forget about all the personal lies and comments you made about "us", maybe you can explain to WY your apparent out of body experience when you were personally making fun of God and Jesus. cut the act billy. everyone that has been-around-has-watched-you-for-two-years-personally-insult-God-with-your-various--mocking-descriptions-of-Him....your-a-liar "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:00 PM:
Oooo, he wants it so b-a-a-a-a-d.
I think who he REALLY wants to be is Voldemort pointing his wand at me, yelling CRUCIO! CRUCIO!! CRUCIO!!!
LOL "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:58 PM:
And try and see my point. I am one who's butt sat on the fence for SOOOooo long because of the harsh actions and words of other Christians. I couldn't muffle the Lords voice calling my name. Am I less of a Christ follower because of my lack of knowledge? I think not. Maybe in someone else's world but not mine. My relationship is MINE with God. I choose to strive forward because of how I feel when I let Him in my heart. As He heals me I follow. I want more. I think as a child of God, I will show the love that was given me. "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:55 PM:
" WY: Please do not feel that you need to apologize. ").
i ditto that.
i am not trying to be harsh with you WY, i never have fostered that feeling toward you. my deal with you has always been the same toward you, to get you to consider the WHOLE of Gods word and character, not just the warm and fuzzy, by telling you the truth.
look at billy. that guy doesn't respond to respectful nice debate. for two years he has been nasty towards God and Christians, even when they were nice.....if-he-were-respectful,---he-wouldn't-be-getting-what-he-deserves "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:52 PM:
One thing I want you to notice,WY,is that I don't mock God,I mock the corrupted, man-made creation that the so-called Christians (Reverend Fruit Cake and his fan club of Girard,Brian Dockter,Bry,JohnnyBLodi and the rest) demand that I bow to and worship in their way.
I mock their twisted view of humanity, which has been deformed by their view of life seen through the stained glass windows of their church of hate.
I mock their disingenuous statements, made to improve their self-image and make their imaginary god love them. They'll even tell you,in rare times of candor,that they do it to "be safe" in case He DOES exist.
The way I see it,WY,the most useful tool I have available to me is to get people like Girard and Rev.Fruity and Brian Dockter to keep posting their hateful fabrications.
:-)
And remember: "That which occurs in nature is, by definition, natural. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:49 PM:
I also believe the fire and brimstone approach has always been counter-productive to bringing others into the 'fold.' While Old Testament teachings were much harsher and condemning, Jesus brought a more gentle and inclusive approach to the world. This also is how we should deal with others.
However, Christianity is not a free-for-all; there are rules to be followed. In the most important sense of the faith, we should recognize that we are ALL sinful by nature. That nature (and the disobedience that stems from it) is what He came here to free us from. Yet there is no requirement that anyone accept that which He offers. For those who choose to believe in the Christian God, it is important to understand just what these rules entail. And once again, for those who do not believe in God, Jesus or anything having to do with Christianity, Judaism or any other 'religion,' there shouldn't be a problem; should there? "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:48 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:43 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:42 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:42 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:41 PM:
Interesting: Kids need parents, period. "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:39 PM:
real facts... I do stuggle with my own sin. I'm still trying to be a better Christian everyday. Some days are better than others but I want to shine in His light none the less.
Sorry for talking out my ass. "
Interesting wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:38 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:38 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:17 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:07 PM:
not looking for attention. never was, never will. not my thing. if i was, i wouldn't have ever left the blogs....(i-liked-my-time-away-from-these-blogs). what i am always looking for, is telling the truth whenever that situation calls for me to do so. some people are too worried about the fallout of where the hard truth might lead them, knowing they will have to face alot of opposition. i don't relish it, but i don't run from-it "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:59 AM:
i do have the right AND the responsibility as a believer to tell the truth. what part of what i said about him, wasn't true? the filth comment i owned, because that crossed the line, and wasn't true from Gods perspective. the pervert/liar comment is 100% accurate by biblical definition AND his continued actions. you may have trouble telling the truth at times, i don't. i spoke the obvious-truth-about-him.....what-words-did-Jesus-use-when-he-personally-addressed-liars-and-the-sexually-immoral? "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:58 AM:
While you have the absolute right to continue with your posts on this forum, I have a suspicion that this time you won't receive the same level of attention that you have enjoyed prior. Good luck. "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:51 AM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:46 AM:
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:43 AM:
while i do have responsibility before God to choose my words carefully, and i will be accountable for each one of them, still, a person's salvation won't be determined by whether or not they encountered anybody who mis-represented God, if in fact that happened. God won't accept that as an excuse, and you know that. a person like billy uses "us" as an excuse as to why he mocks God,....when-it's-his-continual-choice-to-do-so...it-has-nothing-to-do-with-anybody-else---it's-his-excuse_so-he-can-continue-his-perversion "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:36 AM:
"filth" was too strong, and i apologize.
despite billy's perversion fallout of lying every chance he gets, he still draws breath. i dunno if he has committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, for which one can never be saved once that has happened, still the guy operates on the lowest rung on the ladder of life. girard, you should print in here the words Jesus DID use when describing people willfullfully mocking God....ultra strong language "
real facts wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:24 AM:
" realfacts... Stop. This isn't what Jesus would do").
tell you what WY, if after you have poured over the gospels, and the actual words of Jesus Christ, and the way HE dealt with people that mocked God without conscience like billy does day in and day out, and you can accuretly tell me "This isn't what Jesus would do", then i will stop putting him in his place. read it WY. don't form your own opinion based on you not wanting to witness this ugliness, because it's what Jesus DID "
Lodian wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:59 AM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:31 AM:
This one example is indicative of a lack of understanding in the way that we should approach our fellow man. Jesus would have never even thought to describe another person in such a manner. While we can never 'be' Jesus, we are taught to be Christ-like; and that means we are charged to follow the adage, 'What Would Jesus Do?' He would NOT refer to anyone as 'perverted lying filth.'
In fact, that type of attitude may very well be the cause of someone turning completely away from Christ. And I'll tell you, I do not want to be standing in front of God having to answer for being responsible for someone being lost. "
Jess wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:11 AM:
What a great comment. I will keep that in my head all day. Thank you. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:57 AM:
Do you believe that this is the basis of Christianity? Jesus lived and died simply to pass on the message that if we're good to others and help the poor that we've earned a ticket into Heaven?
The New Testament consists of 27 books - much of what is written does address the issue of kindness toward our fellow man. But if that was all He was here for; if that was all that He died for - then all we should have been provided with would have been a pamphlet.
There is so much more to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that literally thousands of additional books have been written by men and women attempting to explain just this one Book.
Again, for those who do not believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Bible I simply do not understand the incredible angst and disdain toward those who do. Granted there are those whose methods of explaining Christianity might need a little polishing, but if one truly doesn't believe, what's the concern? "
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:30 AM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:29 AM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:20 AM:
WY wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:15 AM:
Billy, I have a gay family member. And my soul is saved by Jesus promise and sacrfice. It really bothers me that you refer to the Bible and God in the way you do. Leave old testoment out of you thoughts and read the Gosple. Read the Purpose Driven Life. We weren't getting it right before Christ came, that's why He came, to teach us. Once again it's seems we're not getting it right. God doesn't create junk,though He creates ALL THINGS. The bottom line is to be good to others an help less fortunate. It's had to do without Him in our life. Don't think for one minute Jesus wouldn't want you. People have it wrong, not Jesus. Please be careful, as He loves you. "
Robb wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:48 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:27 AM:
You may take a seat over there, next to Reverend Fruit Cake, in the "Religion Caused My Insanity" section. "
Bry wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:20 AM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:07 PM:
Far from being "good guys", I continually find all them to be reprehensible").
***************************************
oh, you mean you want "us" to be a stellar human being like you?
for example...
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:40 AM:" and the Reverend Real Facts, who cruises teen hangouts, hoping to glimpse or catch a "casual" chat with a gay boy who works there)
***************************************
and of course your assertion that i should sell my daughter into sexual slavery.
ya billy....we want to be just like you....debased-and-on-the-bottom-rung-on-the-ladder-in-life.....you-put-yourself-there...."we"-didn't--so-you-can-stop-blaming-"us"-for-your-choice-to-be-a-God-hater "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:54 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:48 PM:
yep. i said it, and i meant it....on the premise that i was wrong about what went down. for all that time that i WAS gone, there was something inside me that kept telling me i was right, that there was something fishy going on behind the scenes involving sam. it's that knowledge that allows me an "in" back in here if i want it, without any integrity issues. bad news for-you-huh-billy?----unless-of-course-you-can't-control-your-heinous-majorous "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:37 PM:
I guess we've all seen what honesty means to God's self-proclaimed First Seargent and hit-man.
Robb, I hope you don't mind if I borrow "Religion breeds insanity" from time to time? "Breeds" actually says it better.
I wish I had thought of it but I'm glad someone did.
"Religion breeds insanity."
Yeah, that's pretty good.
And, I like the subtle implication it provides that some are more inbred with religious insanity than others.
Excellent. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:21 PM:
JohnnyBLodi wrote on Aug 4, 2008 9:05 PM:
Although it is likely that gay marriage in California did not cause the wildfires in California, how can you assert that as a fact? Did God prophecy to you that it was NOT his works that caused the fires?
Would you admit that there is a small possibility that MAYBE it IS gay marriage that caused the wildfires?
I am open to either possibility.
Are you? "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:03 PM:
OTH wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:02 PM:
And West is West
And one flew over the cuckoos nest. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:56 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:50 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:44 PM:
you find us "reprehensible", because we have the guts to take a stand against morally defined perversion. homosexuallity has NEVER been accepted in the history of the world billy, and it never will. your desperation to make it so, has diminished you to the lowest commmon denominator. when you stoop to lying about people to defend your position, YOUR the one that's reprehensible. you may disagree with our views about God on this, but only a sick heart-would-utter-the-filth-you-do...you-do-so,--because-you-don't-have-a-position-to-begin-with,---and-you-cannot-control-yourself-any-longer "
sam wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:36 PM:
But Billy, I have to say, sometimes it is just best to walk away.
Well done Leonard, for just walking away. Peace out. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:36 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:28 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:05 PM:
I stated my feeling then (and I still feel) Leonard has some of the more complete, well thought-out and well-rounded posts at LNS.
Leonard and I don't agree on everything and, unfortunately, this Brian thing is one of them. Brian has consistently been one of the more hateful of the self-righteous members of the Christian League, allying with the phoney reverend and Girard to use the bible as a weapon, saying some of the most inflamitory things imaginable about other human beings. Said, always, as the loving comments of God.
I'm not much impressed if Brian claims to be a good family man. Great family men habitualy pulled on their white hoods and spread their terror for the past 140 years.
It's said the proof of one's belief is in their actions. Brian, Girard and the degenerate reverend have, in some wierd way, come to believe they are doing God's work on earth by persecuting and demonizing gay Americans.
Far from being "good guys", I continually find all them to be reprehensible. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 4:12 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:42 PM:
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people here that enjoy tearing down others. Some are even down right abusive and have become known stalkers here. As long as the LNS allows posters to viscously attack, abuse, stalk and threaten people on these boards we will always see these types trolling around looking for their next opportunity to pounce. It's what they do. It's really very sad because if these boards were moderated they could be so much more enjoyable and informative. As it is now, the trolls are having their fun and we are left to try and ignore them. Are the inmates running the asylum? The LNS has the power to end the abuse and they do not do so. It seems like they basically encourage this abusive behavior by remaining silent about it. "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:14 PM:
In my book, that makes him an OK guy. I am not going to spend my time making him look bad just because we don't agree about some stuff.
That practice is what's tearing this nation apart and it needs to stop or we will all be sorry.
I'll see you all at another time. In the meantime, please try to be a little nicer to each other. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:13 PM:
That's for sure! :-) "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 3:11 PM:
" Newspapers misspell names all the time
It wasn't him.I know a fair amount about Brian and I think it is safe to say that the man is not gay. Besides, he also is not 24 and he is not from Mesa.
The whole thing has given me a new perspective on blogging. I really thought I had him when I saw that article. When I realized that I was mistaken and thought about the whole matter I felt pretty bad about it.
We spend way to much time trying to "get" each other on these blogs. The truth is that we are all from Lodi and we are all pretty much the same. If we knew each others real names, I suspect that some of us would even discover that we played with each other in elementary school or that we went to the same parties in High School.
Your hometown is your hometown and you should be proud of it and the people who live in it. I'm just not going to participate in this orgy of tearing down my brothers any more. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 4, 2008 2:58 PM:
Robb wrote on Aug 4, 2008 2:04 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:44 PM:
This conversation just gets dumber and dumber. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:22 PM:
Robb wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:15 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:08 PM:
i think it's funny you call paul a "false idol", yet you supposedly hang your life on the words of matthew, mark, luke and john. what-a-phony-you-are....run-and-hide....it's-what-you-do-when-you-are-exposed "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:59 PM:
God defines you, you don't define God").
you missed the point. probably intentionally.
you were correct in your statement above. however, you left out the part where God HAS defined himself, and now it's mans responsibility to adjust to that definition, the point i made exactly, and the point you consistently redefine and avoid "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:52 PM:
Much as I would love to hang out here and refute RF's meaningless assertions all day, I think the time has come for me to take a break.
I'll see you all in a couple of weeks perhaps. With any luck, the LNS will have permanently banned RF and there will be some actual conversations to take part in again. "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:37 PM:
" defining who God is, is never a waste of energy.
I don't care what powers you think your false idol has given you, God defines you, you don't define God. "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:35 PM:
" you can apologize to brian a thousand times, it doesn't change the fact that you knew it wasn't him to begin with when you pulled your garbage.
I like the way you can see into my mind and tell what I did or did not know. Did your "god" Paul give you this ability as a reward for your service?
You are a joke Sir, its just a shame that you aren't a little funnier. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:18 PM:
Robb wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:45 AM:
What a waste of time and energy... "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:15 AM:
The man never met Christ and his teachings were in direct opposition to Christ's teachings").
let's see whatcha got on this one leonard. i am calling you on the carpet to qualify this statement.
(1) paul never met Christ, and (2) pauls' teaching were in direct ooposition.
how so prey tell? "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:10 AM:
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:04 AM:
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 11:03 AM:
I screwed up and I am man enough to admit it. I hope that is good enough for Brian but, frankly, I don't care what you think of me and I never had. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:55 AM:
" Paul was a loon. The man never met Christ and his teachings were in direct opposition to Christ's teachings").
for roughly two years i have watched you talk smack about stuff like this, and never once have you ever been able to qualify your position when i challenge you to do so. is today a different day leonard? let's see you demonstrate paul's teaching to be in "direct opposition". obviously i am the only guy that can show you have no position on this. give it a whirl leonard "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM:
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:50 AM:
I am expecting a massive wave of foam to gush forth from RF's mouth at any moment. "
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:48 AM:
If I were more of a literalist, I would speculate that Paul was an agent of the Devil sent to Earth to turn weak minded people like yourself away from Christ's teachings. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:44 AM:
"elevating himself" like you actually lied that he did......Jesus Christ-hand-picked-paul (with-witnesses)....you-never-know-what-your-talking-about...and-lie-as-if-you-do-...it-isn't-"ignorance"-you-suffer-from "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:35 AM:
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:30 AM:
Christ and paul both
Chuckle... the Holy Duality.
I hate it when Paulist try to pass themselves off as Christians. "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:28 AM:
you can bet i've read it, and know it well. i exercise that commandment "in season". i also i am not afraid to confront evil in a straight up way, something that Christ and paul both where all about when evil reared it's ugly head. it's sickening that the church has allowed the world to have a stronger voice then them-thru-intimidation. "we" have been run over by them, thanks to the "loving only" lie "
real facts wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:20 AM:
but i never came here looking for alliances anyway. there is only one thing that motivates me, and it is what God feels about any given subject as per his word. i "high fived" you not so it would insure we would become "buddies". i high fived you because this time you picked the truth of Gods word over people. what you think about me is irrelevant. what you do with Gods word, IS... "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:58 AM:
Metric Time System wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:38 AM:
Leonard wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:28 AM:
As my wife pointed out, the individual in the article I posted earlier spelled his name with a "y" instead of an "i". Obviously, this is not our Brian.
I have asked the LNS to delete the post and I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to Brian for any discomfort my post might have caused him. I got this one wrong.
-LP "
girard74 wrote on Aug 4, 2008 6:55 AM:
I, along with many others cannot forget what transpired just a few months ago that caused you to alienate yourself from contributing here, although you very well may have been continuing to post under a different name; I don't really care.
However, all that I attempt to do is to civilly and rationally discuss the merits of any published articles, columns or letters in the LNS. I have never sanctioned your methods. With your recent kudos toward me I feel somewhat like Obama who should have immediately refused the endorsement from Ludacris. Unlike him I must immediately and unconditionally reject any and all support from you. Even here associations with certain types of people matter - and based upon your history I do not wish to be associated 'with' you in any manner whatsoever.
I do wish you well, however and hope that your vacation has permitted you to grow up a little. "
Lodian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:33 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:31 PM:
as for girard, i previously rode him for his lack of integrity when he left it behind. today, i must high five him for picking the truth over people. he stayed cool, while offering his position. but more importantly, he stayed faithful to Gods word, picking God over people. for whatever it's worth girard, high five "
Lodian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:24 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:23 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:21 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:12 PM:
" Real Facts, so it is my fault you do not pay your debts?
Too funny. You are a piece of work".)
it's your fault you lied about your involvement about the real_facts situation. i trust my gut above all, and i still know i am right about that situation, that somewhere along the line, YOU had a hand in that. i pay my debts and keep my word, but i left on the premise that i was wrong. having had the time to filter what went down, i know i am right "
girard74 wrote on Aug 3, 2008 11:05 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:38 PM:
Lodian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:36 PM:
" Brian, Real Facts and Girard74 on the same team against Billy Rubin.
Interesting teams. "
psst: At first I thought you were going to say that these three posters were one in the same. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:33 PM:
You'll have to imagine my surprise that Brian feels this way. And just when I thought I had Brian convinced gays were humans, too.
I'm also shocked - SHOCKED I TELL YOU - that Brian Dockter is so mortified that someone might suspect he's gay, he has started threatening people (again) and using profanity (again).
Brian, have members of the Dockter clan, fresh from church where they sat in dark closets telling their secrets to the gay priests on Sundays, always yelled obscenities at people? Is that your idea of godliness? Is that what the Dockters think Jesus does?
Do you think gay people should threaten violence if people gossip that they might be straight? Should they call people vile names like the Dockter clan does?
Have you ever committed violence against a gay person, Brian Dockter? "
voter wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:57 PM:
sam wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:38 PM:
sam wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:28 PM:
Too funny. You are a piece of work.
You also gave your "word" you would never blog here again.
Your word should be your bond. But since you have no Integrity at all, this does not surprise me.
No integrity, no honor, no class. Enough said. "
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:17 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:08 PM:
i would have paid her by now, had she NOT been involved behind the scenes of the "real_facts" debacle. somethings fishy, and she knows it. shes tied to it somehow, and i know it!
opinions about peoples CHOICES are one thing, but you crossed the line by lying about who people are. your lying sickness is the fallout of trying to justify the mis-use of-one body part.... "
Brian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 8:14 PM:
A good portion of the population in the U.S. has the same position.
Leonard's little childish prank shows how mature he is. "
Leonard wrote on Aug 3, 2008 6:48 PM:
WY wrote on Aug 3, 2008 6:06 PM:
I could be wrong but I isn't
THORE... the godlette of thunder is to blame? Should I looking for the winnie dog's cape? "
psst wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:58 PM:
Interesting teams. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:28 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:11 PM:
Was it me who said I think my friends are immoral sinners because they've been together 35 years? Mmm, I think that was you.
Did I say there was no such thing as a "straight parade"? No. That was you too, wasn't it?
How about the bumper sticker thing? Nah, that was you.
Was it me who lied, claiming to have been a champion for gay rights while spewing my religious condemnation? No, that, too, was you. It wasn't a lie? Well, then tell us the supportive things you said...
Was it me who said I questioned my sexuality? Nope. You again.
Sorry, Girard.
You have a bad case of the same truth allergy the reverend has. You keep quoting your trash every time there's a story concerning gays in the paper, but blame me for it. Typical cynical hypocrisy.
PLEASE keep posting it. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 4:56 PM:
That's weak, Brian. It reveals you are out of gas.
In this pitiful case, you attempt to deflect from your own actions and statements to a blog name? Huh. OK, Brian. "Billy Rubin" is why you're a welfare leach? Is that it? "Billy Rubin" is why you surf the gay sites looking for Folsom Street Fair photos? "Billy Rubin" is why your kids depend on liberal social services? HAR HAR!
Is it because your hero Michael Wiener Savage turned the wrath of the nation upon himself, you make a feeble attempt to use Wiener's own words into a case against me? What a laugh. You need some fresh material, Brian.
Here's an idea... why not turn the radio off for a day and let's see what the voices IN YOUR HEAD tell you to say?
Now THAT should make for an interesting blog. Maybe more threats? Oooo, I hope so. Those are funny. "
Brian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 4:43 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 3, 2008 4:42 PM:
girard74 wrote on Aug 3, 2008 4:39 PM:
Brian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 4:12 PM:
Good for you, Brian. Your kids deserve the best you can scam for them. "
That's good Billy. I expected nothing less from you than to construe my words that way.
In case the readers aren't aware. those that have high Billy Rubin levels in their body are at a much higher risk of getting yellow jaundice. Or is Billy inferring his writing is the typical yellow journalism that liberals are known for? Maybe it's both. Billy, is your skin looking a little yellow? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:58 PM:
Girard remains judgementaly convinced as ever of his gay friends'immorality and evilness. Hold hands and sing hymns of praise for Jesus, Girard, you know how Jesus loves a hater.
Poor old reverend Liar can't keep his own promise, much less the "word of God". What a loser. Hey, reverend, did you ever pay Sam that $1,000 you swore you'd pay her? You are still a miserable excuse for a human being.
Brian, of course, stopped in to daydream about admiring men with nice physiques and imagine ways to further milk the welfare- oops, I mean hand-up system while he discovers his latent sexuality.
Good for you, Brian. Your kids deserve the best you can scam for them. "
Brian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:01 PM:
Gaven Newsome would be licking his chops
if an act like this was passed. "
Brian wrote on Aug 3, 2008 2:55 PM:
make homosexuality a handicapp or disability. They just love creating new social programs.
We WOULD see a sharp rise in people discovering they have always been homosexual to tap into these programs.
This would be yet another slap in the face to the truly disabled or handicapped. "
voter wrote on Aug 3, 2008 12:10 PM:
Leonard wrote on Aug 3, 2008 12:01 PM:
real facts wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:30 AM:
listen up billy.....i watch you spill your garbage day in and day out, but if you cross the line in your sickness once again, and lie about me just like you did above, i will be glad to come out of "retirement" and hand it to you everyday. you always did resort to lying, because your heart is black. keep me out of your hatred "
girard74 wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:47 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:59 AM:
But calling gays immoral sinners who don't deserve equal rights must be stated often.
All the sin and immorality makes gays sub human and therefore not deserving of full, equal status.
Girard, Brian and, formerly, Reverend Flakey can always be counted on to stand tall attacking gays for God. God don't like 'em and neither do you guys, 'cause you're all godly and stuff.
Amen, brothers. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:50 AM:
But the gays must stop. STOP with the signs that they're gay, always gay. Stop with the gay stuff. Immoral. Sin.
Crosses are OK, though, eh Girard? I'm sure a rainbow pin would offend your delicate senses, but cross neclaces are fine? Are stickers of cartoon characters praying to a looming cartoon cross offensive to you? Or are they good? You must approve, because you only railed against the gay stuff.
I'm sure they're fine with you, but can you tell us once and for all about the chrome plated plastic Jesus fish stickers on cars? Do those fall into the gay sticker category or are they wonderful? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:40 AM:
Well, except when he struggled against his own male-male attraction when he "questioned [his] sexuality]".
But since then he prayed to be straight and now he expects others to stop living in gay sin.
He claims to have "gay friends" who have celebrated 35 years or committment to one another. Girard manages to fake smiles in their presence, but behind their backs (here, in this blog), he rather concentrates on their perceived biblical immorality and sin. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 3, 2008 5:19 AM:
Girard has condemned all gays for their immorality and sin, even dragging gay supposed friends of his. He states in their presence he maintains a facade of friendlyiness, but behind their back he concentrates on the "sin" of their 35 year committment to one another.
The only thing that matters to Girard has been the bible's quotes that men who love men are abominations and must be put to death. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 2, 2008 11:24 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 2, 2008 3:45 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Aug 2, 2008 3:42 PM:
You don't have any trouble believing God wants gay people dead, or that his son is, or was, in orbit around this planet.
Why are you only now taken with skepticism?
I don't understand. I thought you were a True Believer. "
girard74 wrote on Aug 2, 2008 5:56 AM:
From what I gathered by the massive news coverage of those recent fires, there were a lot of them and they were spaced far apart from one another. Is it true that they were ALL started by '. . . someone doing target practice out in the woods?' Now that I find hard to fathom. "
ccinlodi wrote on Aug 1, 2008 3:57 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 31, 2008 4:07 PM:
JD wrote on Jul 31, 2008 3:38 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 31, 2008 3:15 PM:
T & C wrote on Jul 31, 2008 12:53 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:39 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 31, 2008 3:40 AM:
I believe Bush himself is a Baptist and as a former Southern Baptist myself, I know for a fact that while they abhor abortion, they have nothing against family planning through the use of contraceptives. In fact, they encourage the practice as responsible behavior
Bush is a Methodist, as is his wife. "
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:29 PM:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003238.html "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:28 PM:
Anytime there is reference to an 'extreme faction' within any group I take pause and realize what they are usually proposing isnt worth too much attention. As such, I really doubt that Bush (or his administration) is taking such a concept seriously. "
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:16 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:41 PM:
I wonder if this is yet another attempt to lay something at the Bush Administration's feet that simply does not belong there. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 8:32 PM:
This isn't about '4 year olds.' This relates to the courts, doctors and unfortunately the majority of Americans who believe that an 'unborn fetus' is not a human being. They might admit that 'it' is human tissue, but balk at the idea that 'it' is a person. My outrage over the practice is not secret to those who know me; I lobby heavily for change, but since only the Supreme Court can reverse its own ruling of over 35 years, there is little I can do.
Have I ever thought of killing someone who performs these procedures? Not for a second. They are human themselves. I do, however pity them for one day they will fully realize what they have done. I also pity all of us because we will be called to answer for everything that has transpired during our individual lifetimes. Of course this is based upon my faith, something that not all have nor agree with. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:42 PM:
I could never kill a life in me. I have been there. Life in me is a gift from God.
But I could not, never ever, force my abortion beliefs on another. I would offer guidance and help, anything to preserve the life, but could not judge another woman for her beliefs. I would share my beliefs, but I could never condemn because of my beliefs. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:36 PM:
Now the heart ache... do you think abortion is murder? You personally. Not for your wife, child, etc... this is hard. Could you kill a life growing inside you IF you were a woman? "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:33 PM:
Your stated beliefs seem contradictory to me but it might just be that I don't understand them.
Please do explain. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:31 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:26 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:19 PM:
Viagra is covered yet contraceptives are a form of abortion?
Where is T&C?? sounds like a GOB thing to me. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:13 PM:
Every woman should have the right to choose. I have been pregnant. I understand the emotion that goes into being pregnant.
I am not going to stand here on a soap box preaching what is good for all. Pregnancy is too personal. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:06 PM:
I do not think I have the right to dictate my beliefs on another adult.
Can you answer my question?
No need to call me MS sam or Mrs sam, sam works just fine. "
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:46 PM:
I'm quoting from the website I've pasted below:
"Anyone working for a federal clinic, or a health center that receives federal funding--even in the form of Medicaid--and would like to prevent a woman from accessing most prescription birth control methods has federal protection to do so. . . this new rule establishes a legal precedent that may eventually be used as a basis for banning the most popular forms of birth control along with what is, in fact, abortion."
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/07/15/hhs-moves-define-contraception-abortion
I have not delved too deeply into researching this, but if it checks out, scary stuff. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:45 PM:
I think Moran is correct. There is a fundamental difference here that conservatives don't want to acknowledge for reasons of political convenience. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:37 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:28 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:26 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:13 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:04 PM:
Is it because the unborn is in her body that makes me want to respect her belief? I think that has to be considered. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:00 PM:
You have stated your belief on abortion. Your 30 year old daughter (ficticious) approaches you. She is pregnant, unmarried and chooses abortion. You offer to adopt the baby and she refuses. You suggest adoption and she refuses.
Do you support her as a loving father (or mother)? Or do you continue to state your personal beliefs, knowing that they are not hers? "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:46 PM:
He does make an interesting article. Read the whole blog posting to get more context on what he is saying. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:44 PM:
The truth is that conservatives, again with rare exceptions, don't really believe that abortion is murder. Seriously: if you knew there was a place in your town where parents were taking children they didn't want and killing them, wouldn't you do something about it? I would. Sure, they'd jail me for the rest of my life ... small price to pay for the safety of all those children, though.
But with rare, rare exceptions, social conservatives don't do this. The guys blowing up clinics? They're merely taking the argument about abortion and applying it consistently to the facts on the ground. Look ... either all conservatives who believe abortion is murder should be taking the necessary steps to stop it ... or they're all cowards ... or they don't really believe their own rhetoric.
I don't think they're cowards at that level. I don't think many humans are.
http://danielkeysmoran.blogspot.com/ "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:34 PM:
I had this discusion with my kids. I explained my belief and also shared that it was my belief. I told them that as adults, they have the right to form their own beliefs. What ever their beliefs, I said I would support them.
I would never call a woman about to get an abortion or who has had an abortion a muderer.... that is between them and their God. "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:28 PM:
I believe being gay is not a sin. I believe in my heart that God would not create a gay person if being gay was considered a sin. I have stated this before. I was anti gay until my friend had a baby who was a hermaphrodite. She today is gorgeous, happy, married, and a great mother.
It woke me up. Who am I to second guess God? Jesus made it so clear... "Love your neighbor" "
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:17 PM:
Why in the world would it be pulled? That is sad. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:48 PM:
No, I don't think anyone can, including those who manage it. When I made a comment regarding the new Marty 'n Rich blog that comments were being held for 'moderation approval' literally for days, I was told that since the concept was 'new,' they were working the kinks out. So far the new blog hasn't taken off as I am sure they had hoped, but I would have thought that before they put it up that they would have covered as many contingencies as possible, the least complicated (but most important) would have been how to adequately moderate it. There we are required to insert our names (although it doesn't need to be our 'real' names) and e-mail addresses. One would have also thought that some lessons learned on this forum should have been transferred to that system as well.
While relatively new to the Lodi News-Sentinel, this stuff ain't rocket science. "
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:32 PM:
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:27 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 3:31 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 30, 2008 2:52 PM:
So true, Leonard. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:41 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:36 PM:
There are a few gay people who are the most wonderful and loving people I know. Yet my faith dictates that I look upon them as living in sin. I have always found that impossible to do. Because I freely admit that I am sinful and will die 'in sin,' I will leave the final judgment of them (and me) to God. I 'choose' not to make that judgment here. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:25 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:19 PM:
I believe that based upon the Bible there are many Christians who DO believe that homosexuality is sinful. For me, I have a number of questions ready to ask God once I am in His presence. I certainly believe that people should be free to love one another as they wish. Humans are provided with the ability to make choices - as long as those choices do not harm others or violate any laws then I have absolutely no problem with them.
That being said, I do not find it acceptable for those who do not believe in Christianity (or any other faith) to demand that they change their beliefs. This very nation was founded on the principle that we be permitted to worship as we please. Neither the government nor any person or group should attempt to force change upon others who practice their faith in accordance with the law.
Likewise, I would not accept any person of faith to attempt to force anyone to be something that they don't wish to be. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:08 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:07 PM:
And here I also agree. However, what I have a problem with are those who indignantly demand of others that which they are unable (or unwilling) to give themselves. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 1:03 PM:
So, if my opinion is not of your liking simply ignore me. You know, type out the little 'Blogs from username girard74 are blocked' message or something like that, if that rocks your boat. Frankly, at this point I really don't care. This has nothing to do with your sexual orientation; I am just tired of your tirades. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:57 PM:
" Lodian wrote, 'Each person can decide this for him/herself.'
Certainly this was just my opinion. That's why I went on to state that we all should choose our battles carefully. That 'choice' can only be decided individually. "
Yes, and we don't have to fully understand it. I certainly think we should be supportive of our fellow human beings in not being oppressed, or worse, because they are gay. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:53 PM:
"The Last Lecture" by Randy Pausch
Live your life.
Tell the truth.
Be who you are. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:51 PM:
Certainly this was just my opinion. That's why I went on to state that we all should choose our battles carefully. That 'choice' can only be decided individually. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:50 PM:
girard: ANYTHING can end up being an "...open invitation for hateful people to pounce.". Geez, think about the possibilities! My car, my face, my children, my college decal on the back window etc etc etc can all tick someone off. Who knows! We can't paralyze ourselves with fear, especially when we are passionate about something. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:46 PM:
Are you really that clueless, Girard?
As you continue to call gays sinners and immoral, while always and without fail calling for protection of Christians to continue their mission of spreading God's hate, you have to ask what gays rebel against?
Do you think it could be the prejudiced hate from people like you? While you insist you have the right to stand on a gay person's neck (because God said to), if the victim protests, you are ignorant enought to affect innocence and claim you have no idea why the person fails to thank you for your loving Christian treatment?
I have little patience for authentic stupidity and even LESS patience for your brand of willful ignorance and disingenuousness. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:44 PM:
girard: Each person can decide this for him/herself. The more people decide not to hide being gay the better it will be for the generations to come. I can certainly respect ones decision to NOT put it all out there, but more power to the people that show their pride. When more people, from all walks of life, "come out" it will force more acceptance that a gay person is just that, a person. A person, a human being, that should have the same rights and freedoms that we ALL enjoy. Gay people should have these rights and not have to endure dismissal as if they do not deserve the same freedoms in this country. "
Leonard wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM:
I called him a liar.
Offended at being identified as a liar, he now has modified his story that the sex was not actually in the parade, but was appently engaged in by spectators.
Girard, of course, uses the event to attempt to contaminate his description of the parade.
Well, Girard, after the Lodi Christmas light parade three years ago, while walking back to my car, I passed a car parked on California Street near Pine with a male and female occupant having sex. Using your powers of "truth", this is proof of the sick, sinful effect Light Parades have on society.
You, Girard, are a liar. You are dishonest. "
LEONARD wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:36 PM:
Fighting prejudice has always been dangerous work but it is necessary. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:26 PM:
LEONARD wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:16 PM:
I wondered about the character of any person that would find it funny to communicate that he/she would like to urinate on someone they don't even know. I guess I should have found it cute and/or funny, but I didn't. I saw it as an indication of just how far south our society was heading.
Well, you got that one right. "
LEONARD wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM:
Of course they aren't about hate; but they're an open invitation for hateful people to pounce.
You know what they say, it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
If I were gay, I would much rather lay the facts out there in the open than live in hiding, fearing discovery of my "secret".
Also, if I were gay, I would definitely own a gun. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:07 PM:
Of course they aren't about hate; but they're an open invitation for hateful people to pounce.
A number of years ago I wrote a letter to the editor to discuss the value of the picture of the little guy peeing on something that the owner of the vehicle was against, such as an owner of a Chevrolet might have the cartoon peeing on the Ford logo. In one particular instance this same cartoon was relieving itself on the word 'you' meaning whoever was reading the cartoon.
I wondered about the character of any person that would find it funny to communicate that he/she would like to urinate on someone they don't even know. I guess I should have found it cute and/or funny, but I didn't. I saw it as an indication of just how far south our society was heading. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM:
Sometimes one has to get past the fear of what others think and be themselves. That's what the gay stickers are all about, in my opinion. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:53 AM:
Can you imagine what would transpire here if I actually attempted to engage in a real debate? There is a purpose to this change.
After making a comment about a particular columnist's work I was called on the carpet by the LNS for being too harsh. When I asked if I had violated any of the rules or policies of the forum I was told no, but that I had hurt someone's feelings. Anyone who has ever read what I write knows that I do not engage in hurtful, hateful or any other offensive behavior. I think that often drew the ire of those who simply desired to rattle my cage.
Further, there have been other events that have caused me to be more 'gentle' in my approach; I certainly do not wish to be booted off. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM:
I've always seen you as a person that can handle himself just fine. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:46 AM:
I think they're pretty much worthless as well. Yet what I've tried to understand is why anyone needs to express their sexual orientation in such displays. Furthermore, knowing full well that there are those out there who enjoy bashing gays (literally and figuratively), why the need to attract them? Although we should all be permitted to live in peace and safety, it is never wise to advertise for trouble, especially when you know it may be actively looking for you. Do you not see the folly in that? "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:45 AM:
"I will - only I am curious as to what you (or anyone else) actually expect of me here."
I haven't really thought of it very much. I just miss the old girard I came to know through the boards. I've just noticed a difference. That's all. I feel like you are more subdued, in all of your comments these days, than you used to be. I hate that! LOL! Sorry, I'm just a fan of the passionate debate as well as keeping it respectful and informative...no attacking bashing or name calling needed. That's for sure. Well, except when it comes to Brian. It's open season on that guy. (just teasing) "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:34 AM:
So, I didn't observe people having sex at a gay pride parade in San Francisco? I sure did. Why was I there? Because I was visiting the city in the early 90s and my wife and I noticed something happening in the general direction of Market Street. Naturally, we decided to see what was up. Thankfully, none of our children were with us.
While I've never been back to one of these events I have witnessed the goings on at various events identical to the SF event on our highly-enlightened cable television. Am I lying? Not a chance. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:31 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM:
I mainly speak about the average gay man or woman that gets attacked, belittled and dismissed as less than a second class citizen due to the fact that they are gay. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:17 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 11:17 AM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:47 AM:
And this raises an interesting idea. How does one expect to alter the feelings of another? Is this ever accomplished by spewing forth the same vitriol and hatred that they are fighting against? Of course it isn't.
Further, as despicable as 'hate' is there is no law prohibiting one person from hating another person or group. There are laws that should prevent (and certainly do punish) those from committing any crimes against others simply because they hate them.
There is no possible way for me to make someone like me or not hate me. By my words and behavior I can hope that they might learn that I'm really not a bad guy, but that is totally up to them. To wage a war against hate with hateful rhetoric and/or actions is pointless. There can never be an acceptable conclusion to such an approach.
Do you really believe this is what they desire? "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 10:33 AM:
In fact, all I have attempted to do here (and elsewhere) is to engage in conversations (debate) with others so inclined. Unfortunately it appears that what I have come up against are those who have no desire to rationally argue anything - it's either their way or the highway. The other side of the coin are those who believe that we should all just get along and sing a chorus of Kum Bahya - that is certainly not attractive to me, at least not in a forum such as this.
I continue to state my opinions with respect, decency, research and with the hope of either learning something or passing on to others so that they might learn. This is the purpose of debate; the purpose for this forum.
In this regard I am neither a bigot nor a homophobe. It is a sensitive matter that I have attempted to discuss maturely. Others have not. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:58 AM:
" I wonder though exactly who or what the gay community is rebelling against."
girard: I'd have to say the answer might be that they are rebelling against anyone that hates them for being gay and/or their gay lifestyle. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:56 AM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:27 AM:
If it is truly 'support' for the equal treatment of gays, does anyone seriously believe this can be accomplished by alienating even further those they desire to unite? It was opined earlier that I simply 'don't get it.' Actually, I understand the issue just fine. What I don't 'get' is the pervasive attitude of many who believe they are 'owed' something by society and/or the government.
With the addition of laws against 'hate crimes' and other supportive measures to assist minorities, hasn't the government moved forward with this struggle? Anyone who commits a crime against these defined groups simply because they 'hate' who or what they are find themselves facing stiffer penalties than those who are not motivated by hatred. What more can be done?
Again, the notion that the attitudes displayed on these blogs can possibly move the gay community forward is ludicrous. This leaves me wondering out loud exactly what the true goal is of those who purport to want to get along. It sure seems counter-productive to me. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:06 AM:
Sure, if it's a war you want, then continue with the rebelling. If it is to begin a dialogue with those who disagree with you, you might want to attempt a different tactic.
The idea that everyone will accept (or ever embrace) the gay lifestyle is fantasy. In a nation where we are all permitted to think and believe as we choose, there are those who will never be swayed otherwise. The issue of mixed marriage was raised during this 'discussion.' It might interest some of you to know that there are many in the United States who believe that marriage between races is still wrong and unacceptable. This is precisely what anyone would expect in a free society.
Now, if you really want to live in a society that forces its members to think a certain way, you might want to try Iran. Their wonderful leader, with whom one presidential candidate has agreed to meet with unconditionally, boasts that there are no gays in his country. Certainly you know the source of his pride. You really don't want that, do you? "
girard74 wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:57 AM:
To which I responded, '...I was not aware that being gay was a 'choice,' as Lodian seems to suggest at 3:57 pm today.'
So, just how would anyone receive such a statement in light of the argument that being gay is not a 'choice?' My response to Lodian's statement was well thought-out, courteous and wide open for clarification from her (or anyone else). When I used the words 'seems to suggest' it was crystal clear that that an error had been made - but rather than anyone simply explaining her statement, I am vilified for even asking about it.
After reviewing all of these posts, there is no doubt that the gay community (if it is accurately represented here) has a lot of work to do if it desires to be accepted into mainstream society. California, a bastion of liberal thinking is perilously close to approving a ban on same-sex marriage by constitutional amendment. This type of inability to even discuss these sensitive matters as rational adults will not serve the cause well at all. "
voter wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:56 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:36 AM:
" There are idiots who say gays should quit rebelling, "
Yes, I believe this is true. The same complaints were logged against blacks and women in the last century. Blacks who protested were instigators and blacks prominent in society were "uppity negroes". (This is the dirty little secret behind the right wing labeling Obama an elitist all the time--they know that some of that anger towards "uppity types" still exists.) Same was true with women. Strong women are still labeled as dykes or with that b word. The implication being that they should stay in their place. Fortunately this sentiment is rare amongst the educated, but some still cling to the old prejudices. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:36 AM:
And they have the audacity to demand that the gays not only take it, but that the gays must say they LIKE being treated like dirt. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:26 AM:
It's a fact that gays are discriminated against; they're beaten, they get their cars and property vandalized. They are victims of insults and snide remarks by passersby. They are fired, dismissed and gossiped about.
These activities are often, if not usually, condoned by persons of authority whether it be a parent, a boss or supervisor, a teacher or principal, a cop, a reverend or a highly paid radio personality. It's still "in" to bash.
The destruction of lives is still almost always "approved of" by using a few bastardized passages of what is held to be "holy scripture".
The homophobes who use this heinous excuse to injure their fellow humans invariable lie, saying they do it all in love! Yes! They love!
Yes, of course it's nonsense. Everyone knows it's nonsense. Despite their feeble denials it is only hate that has been repackaged and wrapped up in crackly onion-skin paper torn from their holy book. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:31 AM:
"...Imagine if this had been written in the South 50 years ago and another good pastor had said, Its not the fault of all these mixed race couples that weve experienced all of the tornados and hurricanes recently. Thats just silly. God doesnt do that. And really, saying as much would not cause any of these mixed race couples to repent anyway.
Imagine if the reverend's supporters added, God wants us to love the mixed raced couples, but hate the sin of their marriages/relationships.
That one sentence of Pastor Steves, which appears to single out New Orleans and Hollywood (hell holes of tolerance for homosexuals in some eyes) does imply judgment to many. Some of us can blow it off as not intentional, but if you had been victimized by hate, maybe not so easily."
voter: EXCELLENT POST!!!! "
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:30 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:25 AM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 AM:
" I knew what you meant, Lodian.
Girard knew, too, but his deflection depended upon a false premise - he just abused your post to provide himself with one.
He's a poor debater and a dishonest excuse for a man. "
I'm disappointed at girard's take on my post. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:25 PM:
Girard knew, too, but his deflection depended upon a false premise - he just abused your post to provide himself with one.
He's a poor debater and a dishonest excuse for a man. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:18 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:16 PM:
Are you ready to stand tall against abortion but keep slamming gays until some poor self-conscious kid offs himself? How about it, Brian? Reverend Bullfake? You all are so willing to keep spewing your garbage (but disown it as soon as you hit "Post Comment"), are you willing to watch while the kid pulls the trigger? How about if YOU pull the trigger? THE BIBLE SAYS, GIRARD, THAT GAYS SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH. WILL THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY, GIRARD? IS THAT BELIEF "TRUE ENOUGH" FOR YOU? IT'S BIBLICAL SO IT MUST BE GOOD. The cops at Stonewall believed it.
Metric Slime and the rest of you prigs can all rest easy tonight because some sad kid, in the most profound and utter depths of dispair, somewhere in the bowels of this great Christian land, blew his brains out or was beaten to death because he was gay.
Rejoice, because you think Jesus hates queers. Praise heterosexual Jesus! "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:05 PM:
From yours:"People get on these blogs bashing gays and forget that real people, people with hearts and souls, are on these blogs reading this.. and they are gay."
Yes.
Here's a fact for those who claim to love in the name of their hate.
The single largest cause of death for young adults 18-24 in Utah is suicide. Not drugs, not accidents, not crime - they are killing THEMSELVES.
The single largest identifiable sub-group of those who kill themselves are gays and lesbians; children and young adults who simply could not continue to bear the pressure and the guilt placed upon them by their families and the church.
Such a premium is placed on percieved heterosexuality that those kids choose to end their lives by the HUNDREDS rather than continue.
This is serious. Who is at fault here? This is not a rhetorical question. Hundreds of gay people are driven to suicide because of the types of religious rants that can be seen daily, right here in the pages of this very "family" newspaper. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:26 PM:
DO YOU BELIEVE IT?
[crickets]
THAT, Girard, is why I call you, and those hateful cowards like you, liars and hypocrites. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:23 PM:
Are you trying to say, Girard, that the gay parade goes 24/7/365?
What "goings on" during the 3 hours of the parade cause you anxiety druing the other 364 days 19 hours?
What "goings on" during the parade itself causes you anxiety? How does it affect you? If it is so profoundly disturbing to you, why do you continue to go stand there watching it? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:19 PM:
I thought you tried to tell us you didn't think it was wrong? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:18 PM:
It didn't happen and you, Girard, are a liar.
Again.
Is the bible right about gays, Girard? Can you even force yourself to answer? You can't, can you. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:49 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:32 PM:
Why is it assumed that anyone who states that he/she is a Christian automatically hates homosexuals? Is it so hard to believe that they actually do hate the sin but love the sinner? Of course it should be understood that all Christians believe that we are ALL sinners.
For me abortion is my hot button. While it is currently permissible under the law, I can think of nothing more abhorrent to God than the killing of His smallest and weakest of human beings. Yet I know quite a few women who have undergone the procedure and my feelings for them have never changed as a result of abortion. Aren't there those who believe that abortion is NOT sinful; that it is not even wrong? Yet they are still loved. Why can't this apply to those who believe homosexuality to be wrong? "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:21 PM:
The point is that the French Quarter, as it has existed for years is not a place where a family would want to take their children who are under 18 years of age during evening hours. I would never feel comfortable being in that community with any of my daughters, regardless of their ages, during the height of the debauchery.
Market Street in San Francisco, however on any day of the week should be accessible to any and all people without being exposed to the goings on that occur during its annual Gay Pride Parade.
Of course this is a clever diversion from the point that was originally made; and this is typical of those who simply don't wish to discuss the matter intelligently. "
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:49 PM:
" Okay - let's be REAL clear. I've abandoned nothing. New Orleans, on any given night is the land of debauchery and sex - straight and gay. The French Quarter is an 'adults only' venue;
A convenient definition, too bad it has no basis in reality.
There are many families living in the French Quarter. As a matter of fact, I would wager that there are more families living per square foot in the French Quarter than there are on Market Street which is mainly lined with commercial properties. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:35 PM:
As for the labels in peoples' cars that state 'I Love My Wife' and the like, these are not displayed to advance their sexuality - they are there to proclaim their love. There would be little angst if one was to proclaim, 'I Love My Partner.' But normally what is displayed is a colorful rainbow that simply exclaims, 'I am gay,' not a proclamation of love. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:14 PM:
Of course, most of them were employed as Catholic priests. "
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:58 PM:
My example of gay pride parades is a prime example. Rather than discuss what goes on during these events, there's a silly diversion to St. Patrick's Day parades. The last time I observed, there was no open sex occurring nor encouraged in the streets of Chicago or New York during these parades. Not so during gay parades.
Just so that we are clear, you have now abandoned your contention that there are no heterosexual parades and you are now contending that there simply are no heterosexual parades that involve public sex.
I wonder whether you have ever been to Bourbon Street in New Orleans on a Friday or Saturday night. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:56 PM:
But they have never expected me to embrace their lifestyle. One such man is celebrating his 35th anniversary today with his partner. He is a hero of mine for reasons having nothing to do with his sexuality.
I have, however had many discussions about different matters including the gay movement in America with my gay friends. We've been able to laugh, cry, argue, hug and love one another in spite of whatever differences we have.
This is also how my 'conversation' here began. It wasn't until one militant decided to take the discussion into the direction where we find ourselves now. I wasn't offended or even irked by his heckling, silly name-calling or anything else. He simply doesn't possess the power to affect me in that way.
But my experience on the blogs has taught me to bow out when nothing of value can possibly be forthcoming. So, if nothing else of substance comes to mind, this'll do it. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:45 PM:
The victims are those who believe that they are entitled to having others fully embrace something that is not embraceable to them. Those who believe, through their faith that something is wrong are being led to believe that they should not be permitted to believe as they do. This is patently ridiculous.
My example of gay pride parades is a prime example. Rather than discuss what goes on during these events, there's a silly diversion to St. Patrick's Day parades. The last time I observed, there was no open sex occurring nor encouraged in the streets of Chicago or New York during these parades. Not so during gay parades. So why is the gay community surprised at the outrage? Why is it so hard to discuss? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:21 PM:
So, Girard.
Is the bible right about gays? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:09 PM:
I think Girard will be one of those loving Christians who throws all of the gay childs clothes in the street after he/she comes out.
Hate the gays 'cause Jesus said to. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:08 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:06 PM:
WHAT?
I d... I w... I...
I'm SPEECHLESS.
Girard, I'vew read your past posts, you simply cannot be this stupid. Is this your new tact? "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:05 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:02 PM:
" No, there are no 'heterosexual' parades. None are designed to further the cause of heterosexuals.
To say that a parade which purposefully excludes non heterosexuals is not a heterosexual parade is absurd. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:01 PM:
The anger being exhibited here right now is amazing to me. If the entire gay 'movement' is based upon what I am reading here, it is no wonder it is in trouble. Clearly this isn't a move to be 'accepted' - it is designed to have others 'embrace' the gay lifestyle. In a country where all are permitted to believe as they choose, such an expectation is outrageous. I have stated nothing here that warrants the reaction I've received. But because I may not believe as 'you' do, I must somehow be evil, hateful, hypocritical and stupid. I am certainly none of these things at all.
I only desired that Pastor Newman's column be understood for what it was - a call for all not to attempt to guess as to what God is up to by suggesting that the recent wild-fires were some sort of punishment for sin - any sin. But then the jumping began; and unfortunately I'm not surprised. Such a pity. So, that's it for me. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:58 PM:
You can act like SUCH a pinhead.
Do you understand that hetero sex is seen DAILY on TV? Kissing, hugging, provocative clothing...
When the gay community does it at a gay event you are horrified (because it's gay). When it's shown in your living room after 9 pm, it goes virtually unnoticed (because it's straight).
Do you hug your wife in from of your kids? Assuming any woman would live with you. How do your children take that BLATANT display of sexual affection?
Hypocrite. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:52 PM:
Yes, Leonard. I know many, MANY of them. And I love them.
They, however, are not in the habit of beating scripture into swords and spears with which to scourge others. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:49 PM:
Unless anyone reads your posts, Girard. Since the evacuation of Real Facts* (*but not since the appearance of Bulldog) has there been a more inveterate liar regarding their motives and actions. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:48 PM:
These are the types of activities that cause the already wide chasm to grow wider between the gay community and those who do not support the gay lifestyle. Mostly, these events are designed to shock and offend; in that they are usually rather successful. But again, such accomplishments fly in the face of the notion that the gay community truly wishes to be accepted into mainstream America.
No hatred; no vitriol; no hypocrisy - just the facts. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:46 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:44 PM:
The IGNORANCE of your comment is stupefying, Girard.
Do you feel the NEED to have stickers to identify yourself as straight?
Do you understand that heterosexuality is taken for granted? When you see the framed photo of a sweet looking lady and kids with hair combed on a man's desk, you may safely assume he's straight. The woman who reserves a special place for her photo of smiling children and a man in a goofy hat holding a fish, she's probably straight.
When you see the Escalade with decals of a stick-figure man, woman, and several stick-kids, it's probably a hetero family, yes? Oops, I just punctured your main premise that straights don't have bumper stickers. Dang it. Well, straights probably don't have chrome plastic Jesus fish (two large and multiple small ones) on their cars, either. Or the ones that say, "I love my wife". Or "Worlds's Greatest Grandma" or "James and Jennifer together forever".
Oops.
Your feeble excuse for an argument seems silly, or maybe even stupid, in retrospect. "
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:42 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:41 PM:
" To this is what I'm supposed to act respectfully?
This is G's modus operandi. He says the most offensive thing he can think of and then acts shocked when people actually tale offense.
I think he likes playing the victim. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:40 PM:
As far as me being a liar or hypocritical, there is no evidence of that. I was only stating facts. The knee-jerk reaction that commonly results from people who refuse to look at the entire picture is not a surprise to me. I even predicted that this would happen here.
As long as those involved in the discourse refuse to at least attempt to civilly discuss the issue, there can be no forward movement. Unfortunately, these reactions prove this. "
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:39 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:38 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM:
As examples, how many 'heterosexual' parades are held each year
Well, there are a number of them. Perhaps the best known is the big St. Patrick's Day Parade on 5th Avenue in New York.
Its organizer's have made it abundantly clear that it is heterosexual only. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:31 PM:
The Pride events began marking the anniversary of one of the more brutal attacks by police on gay citizens. Their "crime" was being homosexual. Until then gays were routinely beaten, sometimes to DEATH, by THE POLICE, fully sanctioned by the cities, of course.
Since that time gays have asserted we are not going to take it anymore; in the name of your god or bible or anybody else. Enough people have been murdered. Enough of my friends have been tortured and beaten into unconciousness. Enough of my friends have been fired, evicted, turned away, condemned, shunned, hated, for being who they are - all in the name of a few passages from some book of primitive superstitions.
You go ahead, Girard. Keep up with the hate.
Google the Stonewall Riots for more.
You are simply not worth the effort to write it out. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:21 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:20 PM:
Yes. Yes. YES.
You get it. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:19 PM:
I don't see it happening. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM:
Now you've proven yourself to just be a liar.
Earlier you tried to make me believe you posted only "..well thought out, respectful and..." blah blah blah.
Just more bile from you.
Still with the hatred and sin claiming no hatred, right?
You are simply a lying hypocrite, Girard.
Lie on. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:15 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:11 PM:
And the Academy Award for Over Acting goes to... GIRARD!
We have a bit of a situation now, Girard. I've either forgotten who it was (I was sure it was you) who posted on all the anti-gay marriage threads about Christians believing gays to be immoral and gays to be sinners and acknowledging them to be abominations, etc., or it WAS you and you're now lying.
Now I confess I may be confused.
Since today you claim your blogs "...regarding anything gay have always been well thought out, respectful and decent..." would you be so kind as to refresh my memory with just a few of your many pro-gay posts. Make it easy on yourself. Just a few comments posted in which you opposed the fundamentalists and were pro-gay...
Since today someone posted as you, complaining about "exhausted mantra", I must understand exactly who you are, because if you have always posted as you claim (...well thought out, respectful and decent, etc.) we would have always agreed in these blogs. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:10 PM:
The rub here of course is that gays do not want their lifestyle to be considered a 'sin.' Unfortunately for the gay community, the matter of homosexuality is at the core of the tenets of the 'conservative' Christian church. Insisting that Christians not consider homosexuality a sin is tantamount to gays demanding that Christians embrace their lifestyle. It is simply not going to happen. I would suggest that both groups let the other group live as they please. Yet for some reason, this also does not seem possible. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 6:09 PM:
While this would be nice to believe, it is simply not true; at least as it pertains to a great many gay people. As examples, how many 'heterosexual' parades are held each year and how many automobiles do we notice on the roads bearing any indication of its heterosexual occupants?
Yet just my raising these issues will undoubtedly earn me an accusation of anti-gay or homophobe, although I am neither. Much of the confusion to heterosexuals is simply why gays insist on broadcasting their sexual orientation. I have yet to receive an answer; usually I am pilloried for even asking the question. It is this militant attitude toward heterosexuals that invokes the reasonable response of 'why?'
Continued . . . "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:57 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:36 PM:
R E L A X
just
B R E A T H E "
Scrutiny wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:29 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:34 PM:
Another great comment.
My gay friends have never asked me to condone their life styles. They just want to be accepted for who they are. I can do that. "
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:25 PM:
I read Rev Steve's blog one way and after reading Billy's response, I read it his way.
I love your analogy with mixed race couples.,, well thought out and well appreciated. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:22 PM:
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:20 PM:
Imagine if this had been written in the South 50 years ago and another good pastor had said, Its not the fault of all these mixed race couples that weve experienced all of the tornados and hurricanes recently. Thats just silly. God doesnt do that. And really, saying as much would not cause any of these mixed race couples to repent anyway.
Imagine if the reverend's supporters added, God wants us to love the mixed raced couples, but hate the sin of their marriages/relationships.
That one sentence of Pastor Steves, which appears to single out New Orleans and Hollywood (hell holes of tolerance for homosexuals in some eyes) does imply judgment to many. Some of us can blow it off as not intentional, but if you had been victimized by hate, maybe not so easily. "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:19 PM:
--continued-- "
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:18 PM:
voter wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:14 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:11 PM:
Second, I was not aware that being gay was a 'choice,' as Lodian seems to suggest at 3:57 pm today.
Last, if Billy Rubin is in fact gay and desires to be treated in a respectful way, how could he possibly expect anyone to respond to him in a positive fashion while he himself is behaving in such an 'anti' manner as it relates to Christianity or to virtually anyone who is not completely agreeing with his views? Is this not the height of hypocrisy? Even Christianity teaches people to treat others as they wish to be treated.
Yet before I get jumped on here, at no time have I ever placed myself as anti-gay - never. My conversations regarding anything gay have always been well thought out, respectful and decent. Yet now I learn that someone who desires to be treated with respect and common decency has been neither of both toward others while demanding it? Now that IS amazing. "
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:10 PM:
Ah Leonard, that is where the problem lies. People get on these blogs bashing gays and forget that real people, people with hearts and souls, are on these blogs reading this.. and they are gay.
Have a heart and lighten up a bit people. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:07 PM:
" Bulldog, I have been blogging with Billy for a long time. I do not see him as a stalker. My take is that he is so tired of Gay Bashing.
Personally, I am too. "
ME TOO!!! "
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:05 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:04 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:03 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:03 PM:
Personally, I am too. "
sam wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:00 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:57 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:42 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:33 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:29 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:24 PM:
bulldog wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:16 PM:
He is a stalker on this board. When everyone gets tired of him and quits posting back to his nonsense, he claims victory in his own mind.
Your posts are well understood by those with a reasonable mind, as is the article by Pastor Steve. There was no insult in any of it, except for what Billy interjected. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:14 PM:
That will allow you to continue to blog while still you personally remain non-committal. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:59 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:16 PM:
Well said, Girard, what ever it was you thought you said.
Or didn't say.
Or something.
Whatever. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:09 PM:
No 'reasonable' person, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Agnostic, Atheist, etc., would believe that God's wrath against the gay community was manifested through the northern California wild-fires (or any other disaster). Likewise, no 'reasonable' person would believe that Pastor Newman was offering this ridiculous idea as his own. Yet, here we go with the exhausted mantra. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 PM:
So far, little has been said by any of the parties (excluding Gerard, who has written much on the subject of others' thoughts).
How about you, Cog? After saying you have been too tolerant and Christlike (?), do you still feel the gays are the cause of all your cruddy luck? Need to open a can of bible woopass on some gay boys? "
Leonard wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM:
That said, this is an excellent editorial. A fine sentiment well put.
Good job Steve! "
Cogito wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:36 AM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:34 PM:
As a wise man once eloquently wrote, 'It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.' There's less and less doubt on the LNS blogs every day. "
Cogito wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:44 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:34 PM:
If you can tell what people think before they write it that would be just plain spooky!
Of course, if you can't actually see into their minds to divine their thoughts, then, well, you're sort of just retyping what they already wrote. And that really doesn't have any tangeable value, does it? "
Lodian wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:44 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:34 PM:
voter wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:27 PM:
" Homos, "short for homosexuals, not a slur", are obviously drawn to the liberal Democrat mindset , 'voter' and thus will support all their other liberal special interest groups if it will further their agenda. "
My turn.
Fundies (short for fundamentalists, not a slur) are obviously drawn to the conservative Republican mindset, Scrutiny, and thus will support all their other conservative interest groups (neocons, The Klan--love the hats, Appalachian snake handlers, Clampers) if it will further their agenda.
See how stupid that sounds? "
Lodian wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:21 PM:
Scrutiny wrote on Jul 28, 2008 6:44 PM:
girard74 wrote on Jul 28, 2008 6:36 PM:
Here, there are those who wish to delve into the issue of the morality and right vs. wrong of homosexuality (which has been argued ad nauseum for months). There is no doubt that most Christian churches believe the gay life style to be at odds with Christianity (in spite of a few sects that are more accepting of homosexual activity).
Newman, while not needing to express where he stands on this specific topic, goes much further in his offering for non-Christians to understand that 'all' sin is an abomination to God. Since one sin is not worse than another, he only hopes to get across that he, along with other Christians desires all men and women to repent of their sins, accept Christ as their personal savior and not spend eternity separate from God.
His primary point, however was to admonish us (all of us) to not attempt to 'guess' what God may or may not be doing with the weather or any other phenomenon as it relates to our behavior on earth. "
sam wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:51 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:16 PM:
Lodian, I doubt if Metric Time will give you the time of day on this topic. He was unable to bond with holy scripture in last week's letter blog (lightening rod gays) and seems to have difficulty committing to any specifics in the bible, instead, ambiguously claiming anyone who doesn't agree with all of it and live by all of it is a heretic. Shades of a former poster. "
girard74 wrote on Jul 28, 2008 1:27 PM:
Being the head of a Christian church I applaud his delivery; while not 'politically correct,' Pastor Newman does accurately describe where he, his faith and his church stands on the matter of sin, in whatever form it may take. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:04 AM:
Metric Time System wrote on Jul 28, 2008 9:04 AM:
Since we've all sinned, none of us have a right standing with God on our own and therefore have earned an eternity in Hell. Thankfully Jesus provided a way to erase the sin in our lives and restore our relationship with God and secure an eternity in Heaven. "
educated reader wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:28 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:06 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:01 PM:
Gator wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:36 PM:
did it. Its time to get off the Gays back, sorry there humans just like you
And me. As for God, can you say he doesnt exist, can you say he does, as for me I will err on the side that he does, aint taking any chances. You can
get on the Fundamentalist Christians for their views, but be rest assured
there are NO gays in Fundamentalist Islam or should I say any that are
still alive "
voter wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:13 PM:
Scrutiny wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:04 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 27, 2008 5:21 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:23 PM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Jul 27, 2008 4:06 PM:
voter wrote on Jul 27, 2008 12:30 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jul 27, 2008 1:26 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 26, 2008 5:19 PM:
But instead he went on to damn with faint praise saying, in effect, that good Christians shouldn't judge the sinners, still attempting to slyly lay guilt and contempt on gays. "
Lodian wrote on Jul 26, 2008 12:18 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Jul 26, 2008 8:02 AM:
Repent for what? "
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