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Supercenter: Still a part of Lodi's future?

Reason for delay of proposal unknown; Wal-Mart may shed light on intentions next week

By Chris Nichols
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Saturday, June 28, 2008 1:16 PM PDT

Comments (128 comment(s))

Wal-Mart representatives next week are expected to tell the city of Lodi how — and whether — its long-delayed plans for a 226,000-square-foot Supercenter will continue, according to Lodi's top planning official.

"That's what we're waiting for, is some indication on how they would like to proceed," Lodi Planning Manager Peter Pirnejad said Friday. "There's no indication of whether they're going to proceed or not."

Messages left for the project's developer, Darryl Browman, and a Central Valley Wal-Mart spokesman were not returned.

City officials as well as project opponents say they're in the dark as to why it has taken so long for the project's revised environmental reports to move forward.

A San Joaquin County Superior Court judge in December 2005 overturned the Lodi City Council's approval of the project. The judge ruled that the project's initial environmental studies were insufficient.

Ever since, Wal-Mart has taken the lead on revising those documents. A draft was released to the public last fall.

The final revisions — which must be approved by the Lodi council — have yet to be completed.

Proposed Lodi Supercenter timeline

July 2003: Developers propose Wal-Mart Supercenter on Kettleman Lane and Lower Sacramento Road.

February 2005: Lodi City Council approves the Supercenter project.

December 2005: A San Joaquin County Superior Court judge overturns approval, based on insufficient environmental reports.

October 2007: Draft of revised environmental reports released.

March 2008: Lodi Planning Commission's review of revised environmental reports delayed.

— News-Sentinel staff

City officials say traffic safety requirements handed down by the California Department of Transportation may be the reason for the delay. CalTrans has the final say on traffic matters because the Supercenter is proposed along Highway 12, referred to as Kettleman Lane within city limits.

A CalTrans spokeswoman did not return messages seeking comment.

"We have anxiously been waiting for Wal-Mart forever," Lodi Mayor JoAnne Mounce said. "This is in Wal-Mart's hands. This is not in the city's hands at all."

She noted the last time she could recall Wal-Mart representatives sitting down with city leaders was late last year.

Project supporters say sales tax revenue from the Supercenter would provide critical money to cover city needs.

Opponents have argued the retail giant would drain business Downtown and from other commercial districts.

If approved, the Supercenter would anchor the 339,966-square-foot Lodi Shopping Center, proposed for the southwest corner of Kettleman Lane and Lower Sacramento Road.

The long delay in Lodi mirrors that of other Wal-Mart proposals across the state, said Steve Herum, a Stockton-based land-use attorney.

Herum filed the 2005 lawsuit that negated the Lodi Supercenter's initial approval. He represented a group called Lodi First.

"We're finding, in general, (Wal-Mart) is slowing down on their expansions," Herum said.

He said he did not have any other knowledge of why the Lodi project is on hold.

"They don't exactly let me in on corporate secrets," the attorney added.

Herum noted that Supercenter projects in Clovis, Chico and Selma have experienced similar delays.

Herum is representing a citizens group trying to block construction of the Supercenter in Clovis. A lawsuit in that matter is pending in Fresno County Superior Court, he said.

Opposition members in Lodi have largely scattered, given all the delays.

"I've kind of backed off it because it's taken so long," said Betsy Fiske, a Lodi resident and member of the now loose-knit Lodi First.

"I've just gotten so tired of it."

Contact reporter Chris Nichols at chrisn@lodinews.com.

Reader Feedback

T&c wrote on Jul 4, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Oh, and by the way, within the next five years, you'll see yet another superWalmart off of 99 near central Galt on the east. With the economy lagging and jobs scarcer by the week, that'll be Galt's chance to get an economic boost and create needed jobs, while getting even with Lodi for making fun of them all these years. With one on Hammer in Stockton and one in Galt off of 99, who's going to drive across Lodi to that superstore, except another Lodian when they have easy access right from the freeway in Galt and Stockton. Plan accordingly Lodi city council, in the long run, you lose either way. With all the other financial decisions made by Lodi's councils in the last 15 years and the various gob's it's been comprised of, that's why Lodi is now $250 million in debt, and Hansen, Katzakian and Johnson are merely carrying on the tradition. What poor leadership we've seen from these three alone. And thank you to people like DanielH and edumacation and websites like eyesofargus.net, who's establishing a new format for his website for all concerned Lodians to share viewpoints and many links dealing with Lodi corruption seperately. "

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T&c wrote on Jul 4, 2008 7:57 PM:

" Het, Gator, enjoy! Most people I've talked to or know don't have any problem with Walmart relocating. We all know it's going to happen here in Lodi, and very soon. The citizens' concern is the backhanded way the city council keeps avoiding the subject of what they're going to do with the current structure. We also know that Walmart could buy each and every planner and councilperson in Lodi hundreds of times over and these same wealthy big boys who back them are scared to death of Walmart. Walmart doesn't listen, they talk. So from what I see in my opinion is that Walmart is going to move and let the kings and queens of Lodi and their gob pecking order stick their own feet in their butts. This is going to be a great one to watch unfold. And all those tenants at the old strip mall will watch penney's fold and the grocery store will be their new anchor as the shoppers will go across the street for one stop shopping. Lodi leaders, you want to play with the real big boys, you're going to have to pay the price. Hope you enjoy the ride, we'll be watching. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 4, 2008 3:32 PM:

" Well the ribs need about another Hr. damn!! Here is where its at and this
Is where Government begins, Grass Roots at the bottom. People need to
Hold All Politicians feet to the fire,they work for us, period, We The people. They need to get it right or hold a recall. The mess we are in now
could be fixed if we had a Congress and Senate that worked for the folks
not for their bank accountAlong with Bush they have done nothing for the last 2 years, aint they special??? Get in the city councils face and stay there you might like the results.Now the ribs are calling A happy
Fourth to one and all, Scouts out!!! Semper Fi "

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papercut wrote on Jul 4, 2008 2:47 PM:

" Gator, happy Independence day and enjoy those ribs. Now, let's get back to the subject. The big question is: what is Walmart going to do with their old building when they move, since it's going to happen soon whether anybody likes it or not? I remember council and their agreement with Walmart when they came in that they agreed before they relocated, they'd have their old building 100% leased. Then, all of a sudden, another council thought we forgot the original agreement and said 50% leased or they could possibly just demolish it. Now it doesn't sound like anyone wants to talk about the subject at all? Why? Don't both of those parcels of land belong to an ex-mayor of Lodi, the same one responsible for bringing them here? So new council, just what is the requirement that Walmart originally made and are you going to make a backdoor deal with Walmart and the gob property owner? Please keep us notified, isn't that why you were elected? I know they'll move and I just want the deal aboveboard for everyone to see who has their hands in the till. You pandered to Walmart and now they own you, Lodi.gopatton. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 4, 2008 2:22 PM:

" t&c Each and every one of the Big Stores I have mentioned are in Nampa
City limitscj cogito spelled it out as well as I have ever seen. Point, some
times life isnt fair, question how many mom and pop stores do you think
Raleys, Albertsons , Safeway. Save Mart, Pay and Pack, etc, have put under.
the same goes for Car Dealers Little guy vs. Big auto Mall who do you think will win out there. This day and age its tough to be in business for
your self you have to be, smart pick what you know and are good at and
be prepared for a long tuff fightIm done, time to eat some Ribs "

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T&c wrote on Jul 4, 2008 1:35 PM:

" Gator, those towns you mentioned are a suburb of Boise, as is Nampa. The average median home is worth $111,000. You say the OLD walmrt supercenter? Sound like the big box stores you refer to are in the Boise suburban area, not Nampa or one of those other mining towns. Do you live close to the mental institution? Or the juvenile correction facility? "

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cj wrote on Jul 4, 2008 11:06 AM:

" gator..Walmart's tactics for getting cheaper prices isn't always good for everyone. I remember reading, several years ago, in the news about very old U.S. sock company who didn't have much choice to sell their product cheaper to Walmart than they wanted to. If they didn't agree to it, Walmart would not buy from them. If I remember right, it only took a year & the sock company went out of business. They had been in business for a very long time & probably struggling to stay afloat against China goods (my opinion). They were selling the product cheaper than it cost them to make it. Now, I know the sock company could have chose to not sell to Walmart, but don't you think maybe they didn't have much choice? Walmart buys big. I, among many others, liked their socks a lot. Now we can't buy those socks any more. Walmart has a way to intimidate the manufacturer's in selling cheaper to them, because they know if they don't, Walmart will go to another company. Yes is is free commerce, but there are also morals to follow too. Walmart doesn't appear to have any. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 4, 2008 10:35 AM:

" We live in the most prosperous and most free years of a wonderful republic, and can easily rectify our present crises that are largely of our own making and a result of the stupefying effects of our unprecedented wealth and leisure. Instead of endless recriminations and self-pity of anger that our past was merely good rather than perfect as we now demand we need to give thanks this Fourth of July to our ancestors who created our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and suffered miseries beyond our comprehension as they bequeathed to us most of the present wealth, leisure, and freedom we take for granted.

Alittle food for thought from Victor Davis Hanson "Reflection Day" "

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Gator wrote on Jul 4, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Cogito,
Very smoooooth and to the point, like Howard Cosell used to say, Lay
Your cards on the table and tell it like it is "

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falcon wrote on Jul 4, 2008 9:17 AM:

" Free Market Capitalism... The fairest system of them all. "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 3, 2008 11:20 PM:

" Giovanina, the majority of retail businesses, from automobiles to hardware to furniture, advertise that they sell below msrp( manufacturers suggested retail price). It is not unlawful to do so, to the point that only a moron would pay full retail for anything these days. So you're saying that nothing should ever be on sale? Isn't buying anything on sale buying below msrp? The music industry has a choice. They can meet WalMarts demands and do business with them, or not. They chose to meet their demands. That's business, period. I think you may find a few college courses in business and economics quite enlightening. Maybe you could see the light of the brilliance of free market capitalism, and how well it serves the majority of consumers. It's pretty obvious that you have a lot of opinions based on a highly limited amount of personal knowledge. "

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Robb wrote on Jul 3, 2008 10:27 PM:

" Gio:

You don't like it, don't go... But please...
the excuses must stop at some point.... "

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Gator wrote on Jul 3, 2008 7:27 PM:

" Lodian. Idaho Statesman, same as Sacramento Bee, Idaho Press Tribune
the press Tribune has lots of local coverage. cj I have the old Super Center
About of a mile from my house, one reason we can have so many big
Stores is of urban sprawl. With in 16 miles you have the towns of Emmett
Caldwell, Meridian, Eagle, Nampa, Star, Middleton and Boise. This is all
farm country. For a long time there were no California style Developments
You know 5 houses to the acre. Now there are, Im lucky I have a stream
right behind my house so no one can build to close. As far as Wallies goes
If they build the super center they should sell the old site or tare it down
at their cost. "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 3, 2008 4:31 PM:

" gator: Is there a local Nampa newspaper and message boards that I could check out? Thanks "

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cj wrote on Jul 3, 2008 4:31 PM:

" gator:what I was asking or meant was how close are the closest big box stores from the stores in Nampa. So, if they didn't have any in Nampa, how far would you have to go to a Walmart or Lowes? I was just trying to relate that to Lodi. People say that Lodi may not be able to support a Super Walmart because Stockton is so close. I just wanted to know how far are the stores were in the next town to Nampa. I am sorry if I am not making it clear. If the next town is a lot further than Stockton is to Lodi, that could be why Nampa can support all of those stores you have listed. Cabella's um, my husband's fav store. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 3, 2008 1:06 PM:

" This is going no where. I was just pointing out what Lodi could do if
they had the ambition to get it done. Repeating my self once again I
did business with Als wheel and brake and wright motors and Raleys
For all else I left town. Here I use an independent tire and brake shop
I service my Jeeps and Car at a dealership. Hunting and fishing from
Sportsmans Warehouse and Cabelas and an independent Gun smith.
My property Taxes are high but lower than California. The house I bought
For 360,000 here on 1 acre would have gone for over 700,000 in California
All the so called box stores are with in 6-8 miles. I am feed up with crap from China. Every time I buy something I check to see where its made if
Its made in China I try to find some thing that will work N M I C.
Lodi is asleep at the wheel as far as city government goes they need to
Get with it and help the town growAs for China thank Richard Nixon
and Bill Clinton "

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JD wrote on Jul 3, 2008 1:02 PM:

" Out of curiosity (and sorry if this has already been answered; I'm coming in late on this)--

If WalMart does get their new supercenter, what happens to the old building? "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 3, 2008 12:27 PM:

" It seems like Nampa is about the same as Lodi. I wouldn't mind moving to another area that is a little easier on the bank account, but there is so much about California I really enjoy. "

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cj wrote on Jul 3, 2008 11:07 AM:

" I own a small retail business in Lodi, and our suppliers won't sell to us if we sell below our cost and even a small percentage above cost. If we were a Walmart, or probably even a Lowes, we could do what ever we wanted. If it is illegal to sell below cost in Calif, I think there is a law against it, but I could not quote any actual details. I think Giovanina may be right. "

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cj wrote on Jul 3, 2008 11:03 AM:

" gator: I was just wondering how far is the nearest Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, Costco from Nampa? Are they as close as Stockton or even Elk Grove is to Lodi? I was just wondering, as I don't know much about Idaho. I also wanted to know when was the last time you have actually driven through Woodbridge? I don't mean the main streets, but the residential streets. Woodbridge has been cleaned up quite nice now. Sure they may still have a few gangs, so does everywhere else. Woodbridge is not any where near Stockton or even Lodi east side as far as it comes to gangs and scum. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jul 3, 2008 9:12 AM:

" Gator wrote on Jul 3, 2008 9:05 AM:

" Ok G! Take Macys, they hook women with big sales 50-75% off over tag price Yeah sure their price is 200% above cost so they still make a good profit The local womens store cant touch that, your answer?? Who said life
Is fair??? "


And this store is having this sale 365 days a year? There is a Macy's in Lodi? Where has it been hiding? With a sale like that I guess everyone shops there, right? No, they don't, because Macy's builds in a city with a heavy population of which 90% of that population does not shop at Macy's. So when Lodi gets a population the size of Stockton, build a Supercenter.

Of course, Lodi will have all of Stockton's and the Bay area's urban problems as well. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jul 3, 2008 9:06 AM:

" Robb wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:09 AM:

" Giovanina:

Please back up your ramblings with a coherent sentence please, possibly using facts...

Robb-I don't have time to quote California crime facts that are readily available throughout the net. Look at them yourself. Do your own research, that's what I do. If you don't understand my points, then maybe you just don't have the basic tools for understanding.

I stated that 1) A Super Walmart would bring more criminal types, including gang members, and other tax burdens to Lodi. Urban Problems.

Lodi, a rural town, would become more urban, as it suffered from more urban challenges, like crime, drugs, pollution, traffic congestion, etc. ya look at Harney Lane after they get the Blue Shield done. Beep beep.

If you want to build something on that land, put something that makes products normally made by the communist China. Create jobs that would allow more money to stay in Lodi. But NOOOOO Robb wants more money to head to communist China via the Walmart Super center of Lodi. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 3, 2008 9:05 AM:

" Ok G! Take Macys, they hook women with big sales 50-75% off over tag price Yeah sure their price is 200% above cost so they still make a good profit The local womens store cant touch that, your answer?? Who said life
Is fair??? "

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Giovanina wrote on Jul 3, 2008 8:51 AM:

" When the music industry creates a price for it's music, it is setting a retail price. When Walmart sells well below the manufacturer's retail price, and tells the manufacturer they won't buy ANY of their products unless they are allowed to sell those products well below retail, and do it for the purpose of monopolizing sells over others, that is price fixing and it also sounds like something Capone would do. Does not sound legal to me. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 3, 2008 8:13 AM:

" The reason I brought up what we have as far as Nampa Goes is Nampa/
Lodi are like sized Cities. Just saying I dont understand why Lodi cant
get off the dime and do the same. The New Wal-Mart ,SAMS,COSTCO
have all been built since we arrived, there was no hue and cry in the papers
or TV of folks saying it will ruin mom and pop, which it hasntAs for
Gangs go sure we have some most are in Boise, Caldwell but the cops
keep a foot on their neck. But look at your East side, Woodbridge and
Of course Stockton where 80% of the city is gang country. I lived in
Lodi from 1989 to 2006 as my wifes job was there. Like Jon Fogertys
song I was stuck in Lodi. Like I have said come show me the gang
problem, the Skin heads and White supremacist. I can show you at least
four Mexican gangs roaming the east side, whats the point?? "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 3, 2008 12:42 AM:

" I wonder what the "vote" would be like today if Lodians voted specifically on Wal-Mart, by name. "

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commonsense1 wrote on Jul 2, 2008 10:07 PM:

" I must be missing something. What does this have to do with our Wal Mart Super Center? Who cares what they have in Idaho, Montana, etc. Our citizens voted this in, which should be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, we have a few wack-jobs that want to force the majority into submission. Since when, does the minority rule? "

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Lee wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:49 PM:

" Gator,
Are you saying there are not many gang problems in your area at all? "

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Gator wrote on Jul 2, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Papercut, Do you stay awake all night to think of drivel to post here, if you
have its a waste of your time and mine. Your blather about Nampa shows just how ill informed you really are .Meth is controlled by Mexican Drug
Cartels. A few years back I was talking to one of San Jose Drug task force
members And asked him about the Hells Angles and about Crank now called Meth. He said they were a bunch of Old has beens and the
Mexicans ran it all. Like I have said before it is still part Cowboy Country
and they really know better than flaunt it. As for you P/C its like the lights
are on and no one is home. And for the skinheads and white supremacist
Why dont you take a drive up here and point some out, we would really
like to see the real McCoy!!! Remember a Mind is a terrible thing to waste. "

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papercut wrote on Jul 2, 2008 11:20 AM:

" kenH or gator, those stats came from Nampa's website. 20% poverty rate and meth operations controlled by the white supremacists and bikers.Better than being back in Lodi for you, huh?That's why the skinheads left Sandpoint and Couer d' Alene, and that's the main reason for the high crime rate there. Must be hard to take seeing so many poor white people. Walmart is suited to the tee for a poor town like Nampa. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 2, 2008 7:22 AM:

" Lodian,
I dont know why it comes out like that. I went right to LNS box without
a copy and paste, when I use MS Works it comes out somewhat better, could
be my wireless Internet who knowsFor the rest, Get over Ruby Ridge and
Randy Weaver . Coeur dAlene and Sandpoint are no longer full of White supremacist, It is full of for the lack of a better term Yuppys from Spokane, Seattle and San Francisco. There is some white trash but few and far between, Crime, I was told the same thing ,I live here and I say B/S. 16
miles from Boise is a lot better than 9 miles from that arm pit Stockton. Meth Is the problem and their isnt a city in America that isnt effected by
It. Montana has one of the worst teen Meth problems in the Country
So I come Back for a few days to see my Kids and Grandkids and that is enough, but to live there again, you bet, when Pigs fly or hell freezes over,
No not even then. "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 10:42 PM:

" Gator: I've traveled around a bit and California's weather is hard to beat. "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 10:25 PM:

" Gator wrote on Jul 1, 2008 7:00 PM:

" I will make this my last,untill the housing bust land prices were going
thru the roof.I had a hold on 1 1/4 acres for 80 grand when I told the realator I changed my mind he sold it
that afternoon for 145,000.Next the cold no one asked.lots of folks come
and a lot move out after their first
winter.Lots of days in 10-17 with wind
chill,you get the picture... "

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand this post very well. Did you copy it from word to this board? That has proven to make posts a mess these days for some reason. "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 1, 2008 10:01 PM:

" Cj, as far as "facts", you're welcome. No apology necessary, being right is it's own reward. "

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T&c wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:58 PM:

" Gator, have you bothered to Google Nampa? The highest crime rates and one of the highest property taxes in the state, and basically just a suburb of Boise, 18 miles away. And Idaho is the promised land of many different skinhead communities. "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:21 PM:

" Giovanina, finally, I'm not a member of the NAU, but one of my wifes best friends is the Education Director of the Eagle Forum of Sacramento. Those chicks are ZEALOTS! LOL! I don't get involved. But Republican women are very hot! "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:12 PM:

" Giovianina, I just read your link and I was right. But, I'll also admit that the way that the article was written is also confusing. Try entering "WalMart price fixing" on Google. The first article should help, although it's kind of confusing also. But WalMart won that case. The music industry was fixing the price point at which they sold to WalMart in order to help others like Tower Records stay in business. "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:50 PM:

" Giovanina, if you're talking about the recording industry case, you're getting it wrong. WalMart strong armed them into selling them music at a lower price because the music industry was fixing prices, not WalMart. The music industry folded to their threat of not carrying music because WalMart accounts for 20% of all music industry sales, while only accounting for about 2% of WalMarts business. WalMart sells music as a "loss leader" (at or below cost in order to attract business). Isn't it great that there is a business willing to sell you CDs for what they pay for them? "

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Cogito wrote on Jul 1, 2008 7:28 PM:

" Giovanina, try looking up the term "price fixing" before you tell me I'm wrong. You are only proving your ignorance on this matter. Not much of what you say is ever coherent, I don't know why I'm bothering to point it out. Everyone knows. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 1, 2008 7:00 PM:

" I will make this my last,untill the housing bust land prices were going
thru the roof.I had a hold on 1 1/4 acres for 80 grand when I told the realator I changed my mind he sold it
that afternoon for 145,000.Next the cold no one asked.lots of folks come
and a lot move out after their first
winter.Lots of days in 10-17 with wind
chill,you get the picture... "

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Gator wrote on Jul 1, 2008 6:52 PM:

" Lodian,
Yes there are gangs here but not like in California and as I said it is still Cowboy country to some extent and folks take a dim view of it. I have
been here since 06 and have yet to see any in Nampa, you hear about
some in Caldwell and in Boise but they no better than to flaunt it.The DMV
Is in the county courthouse along with the probation department so
When you see folks going to either place crime is still 95% white.
The very best thing about here is kids play all day out side with out their
Parents having to watch them like a hawk, damn that is refreshing "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Oops... I forgot to ad this as a source of information... www.idahogangs.com "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 2:51 PM:

" Gator and Jess: Thank you... I enjoy hearing about other areas and their good points. I like to travel and if there was ever a nice place for retirement, besides our current home, I would certainly like to look into what life would be like in the area. I have heard that Nampa is home to a large population of migrant workers and a lot of gang related activity though. Is this true? I've read a few disturbing things as well as seen negative things on YOUTUBE. Unfortunately, gangs are everywhere now. If not yet in your area then they are on their way. I found this one on YOUTUBE... Idaho Gangs...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AF__WPjaA1U "

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cj wrote on Jul 1, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Go GIO Go!! Thanks for the facts. You rock.....This is getting a little boring hearing about Idaho. Idaho is a great state. Many Lodians, as well as other Califonians, are moving to Idaho. Then it will just become other California sooner or later. Hopefully, later. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jul 1, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:29 AM:

" Giovanina, how does WalMart impose "price fixing"? Price fixing is an agreement between businesses to sell the same product at the same price. It is usually done to create an artificially higher price, not lower. You are probably being gouged by price fixers every time you buy gasoline, not WalMart merchandise. Who were these other businesses involved with WalMart for price fixing? Did they get in trouble too? Or are you just making up stories. "

There was a price fixing case involving Walmart. Sorry you missed it, and don't understand what I am talking about. Problem is your attitude is one of Pro-NAU, and you seem to ignore things that are actually happening.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-30-cd-settlement_x.htm

Since your knowledge of events seems limited, I can now understand why you have trouble comprehending. No one is stopping you from driving right over to the supercenter to shop. I explained my reasons. Sorry you are too limited to understand. I am looking at many factors of a Supercenter, you are just looking at youself. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:00 AM:

" Lodian,
Here is a link to the rec center, check it outAs I have said before we are
About the same size as lodi yet we have 2 super centers 1 Sams Club.1
Lowes and 1 home Depot,lots of small businesss all keeping their heads above water and of course the recreation Centerhttp://www.nampaparksandrecreation.org/reccenter/ and one has
to ask why can we do it and lodi cant ,It really doesnt make a lick of sense. "

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OTH wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:47 AM:

" Lodian

As Gator said prices are cheaper there. People are different as well. There is plenty of open space. While there are probably plenty of developers there, they are not as thick as the fleas they are here. "

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Gator wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:45 AM:

" Lodian,
My family history goes back to the late 1840s in Petrolia California and I
had planed to always live in Northern California, My move to central
California was not by choice and I tried my best to get back. I detested
being a flat Lander. So when the chance came to get out of California
I took it and I will never look back. Its true you have every thing we
have and in fact you have 35 million 7 hundred thousand more
people than we do. No its the attitude of the folks that is big and
the parks are clean and not trashed out. The Rec center that I mentioned
Is fully City owned. City planers come from all over just to see it and go
away thinking how do they do it, simple Its pride in the City and the folks support it 150% That is the difference here.I still have some very good
Friends in Lodi ,that will never change nor will I ever want to leave Idaho. "

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jess wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:45 AM:

" Lodian, I am not a walmart shopper. I went ina Walmart once and it looked diry and cramped. Not my kind of store.

I love the secluded life style my friends are living in Idaho. "

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jess wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:42 AM:

" OTH, acreage is cheap there. We have several friends who have bought a lot of land. Other friends and family have built on their land. I am think of getting 20-50 acres and let family members build there too.
Sounds wonderful to me.

The fishing is amazing !!! "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 12:30 AM:

" Jess: FYI... there are Wal-Mart stores in Idaho too. "

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Lodian wrote on Jul 1, 2008 12:29 AM:

" Gator: So far the only draw I see for Idaho is that it may be less expensive to live there, but then again the pay is probably less as well. All the other things you mentioned are in California as well. Not knocking your Idaho choice...just sharing thoughts. "

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OTH wrote on Jun 30, 2008 11:16 PM:

" Jess

You mentioned you were going up to join a group of twenty people? They frown on communes in that part of the country. "

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OTH wrote on Jun 30, 2008 11:14 PM:

" Jess

Don't know you, just yanking your chain a little. I'm known for that here.

Gator have you ever been to Priest River in Northern Idaho? I think it's about as far north as you can get before you cross the Canadian Border.

Canadian border guards don't have much of a sense of humor.

Flathead Lake is beautiful. The highway to Kalispell runs along the shore of the lake. Beautiful country. "

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Jess wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:55 PM:

" OTH, are you going to miss me?

Miss all this? Miss Lodi's super duper Wally World?
I think that would be kinda nice. "

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OTH wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:28 PM:

" Jess when you leaving? You are going to miss all this. "

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Gator wrote on Jun 30, 2008 5:32 PM:

" Here is an example of how people are. In a campground up north
this party had a Jeep with a bad alternator. In the camp site next to theirs
One of the guys was going into town and said he would call a tow truck for him. the jeep owner wrote down his AAA membership number and off
he went. Well AAA wouldnt come as the man didnt have a card. So he
Bought an alternator went back and replaced the bad on and as luck
Would have it they found a little shop down the road and charged the Battery . When the owner and his son returned the jeep was ready to go.
Thats why I like Idaho "

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Gator wrote on Jun 30, 2008 5:18 PM:

" Lodian, I could be a wise guy and say whats not to like, but thats not the case. attitude Is a big thing, sure you come across a grump every now
again but they are few and far between. folks go out of their way to be
Nice and help folks. ,The fishing is out of this world so is the hunting
We are close to Yellowstone, Glacier National Park and the state is
about 80% National Forest. You want to do something different Canada
Is 4 hrs north and Montana and Wyoming are about the same. For those
who want city life Boise cant be beat, First class food good, entertainment,
they have a Mall that will best anything Sacramento has to offer. There
are gangs here but the police have a handle on the problem and the fact
that it is still some what Cowboy Country tends to keep a lid on things. "

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jess wrote on Jun 30, 2008 4:40 PM:

" Gator, I am moving there too. I have 20 plus friends who packed every thing and moved there. They love it and want us to join.

Lodian, everything costs less there, smaller towns, houses are not built on top of houses, the land is gorgeous, no gangs, and the crime rate is so low...
great hunting and fishing,,, and guess what, Lodian, the best potatoes around. "

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Lodian wrote on Jun 30, 2008 2:16 PM:

" Gator: Wha do you enjoy about Idaho? "

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Gator wrote on Jun 30, 2008 2:14 PM:

" Big fingers, should have been 1989... "

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Gator wrote on Jun 30, 2008 1:35 PM:

" I moved from Eureka California to Livermore in 1968,couldnt stand the place. spent 2 years there and moved to Rio Vista, moved to Lodi 1999
and moved to Nampa Idaho 2006. One of the best Merchants I did
business Was ALs wheel and brake, also there Wright motors, got
my hair cut at Clays barber shop on Sacramento st. those are the things
I miss infact I drop by and see clay every time Im in town.. The rest
is just so much water under the bridge as slang would put it Dont mean nuttin. As for Crap from China, what percentage is on the shelves at
OSH. As for when I will leave Idaho ??when hell freezes over!!!! "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Giovanina, when businesses close as a result of WalMart moving into town, it's because the people of that town choose to spend their hard earned dollar at WalMart, and not their competition. The American people of that town most likely chose to go to WalMart for their lower price for the same merchandise. Spending our money where we choose to spend it IS the American way. Why are you against giving consumers the right to choose where they shop? It's their money isn't it? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:31 AM:

" Giovanina, are you saying that the rural areas are becoming more urban? Do you even OWN a dictionary? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:29 AM:

" Giovanina, how does WalMart impose "price fixing"? Price fixing is an agreement between businesses to sell the same product at the same price. It is usually done to create an artificially higher price, not lower. You are probably being gouged by price fixers every time you buy gasoline, not WalMart merchandise. Who were these other businesses involved with WalMart for price fixing? Did they get in trouble too? Or are you just making up stories. "

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Robb wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:09 AM:

" Giovanina:

Please back up your ramblings with a coherent sentence please, possibly using facts...

Thanks "

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Giovanina wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:08 AM:

" Gator- California has become more urban in the past few decades, even in the rural areas you wouldn't expect.

Stockton butts up against Lodi, and that says a lot. Even Modesto is becoming trashed out with more crime. What are the urban challenges your area faces?

Plus, with all the stores that are there, they were counting on the high cost of housing driving more people out of state to your area, Now people can't afford the gas to get there.

Well see if this experiment works with this bad economy. Time will tell but I would say that some of these places you are telling us of, will go the way of the Dodo. And you will have a lot of empty buildings, like what we have in Lodi right now. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:01 AM:

" Robb wrote on Jun 29, 2008 5:07 PM:

" shrubeater:


And if a supercenter forces the closure of other business, I call that natural selection, and the American Way!! "

Cogito wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:08 PM:

" So some of you think Lodi is too small to handle a WalMart Supercenter. Do you really think that WalMart became the number one retailer in the world by making poor demographic decisions? I will say, with some confidence, that they know what they're doing. "


No it did it through, Monopolizing small towns through price fixing which is NOT the American way, but it is Walmart's way. They have already been busted for it before.

Too many communist Chinese products. Imports that should be cut back by the Feds. Especially, NO FOOD PRODUCTS.

A lot of that money from these cheap products, helps China come back and buy up U.S. property, build up it's anti-U.S. military, and pirate our technology, military included.

Try looking at a situation a little farther than down the street, please. "

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Gator wrote on Jun 30, 2008 7:56 AM:

" With all due respect Rio Vista is a small town Lodi is more like a medium sized town. We live in Nampa Idaho a medium sized town of around
97 thousand. There are 2 Walmart Super centers and 1 Samss club and
a Costco and many mom and pop car repair and grocery stores, Albertsons
and a Idaho chain, Pauls market are the 2 large grocery stores. I do my
tire buying and repair at Kings Pro Tire instead of one of the discount
Stores, why?? Because they are off roaders like meThe City is a
breath of fresh air compared to lodi. We have a rec center second to none
3 large pools, 2 weight rooms, 4 basket ball courts, 2 very large rock climbing walls, a 1/5 mile 4 lane track on the second floor, racket ball
Courts and exercise and dance rooms on the second floor. All this is
fully owned by the city of Nampa.All in all things run like they should,
every one seems to get along just along just fine, Also you can see what
A city of 97 thousand can do. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:08 PM:

" So some of you think Lodi is too small to handle a WalMart Supercenter. Do you really think that WalMart became the number one retailer in the world by making poor demographic decisions? I will say, with some confidence, that they know what they're doing. "

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al da long wrote on Jun 29, 2008 6:47 PM:

" Papercut- still waitingfor a reply on your other blog, I'm just one who laughs at most of your comments, cause like my early comment you're full of it. go pet your kitty, and call the grand jury on how Wally world plays the number game on your kitty's grub "

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Robb wrote on Jun 29, 2008 5:07 PM:

" shrubeater:

Your point is Not relevant, you must realize that the wages that people make in other countries, is far and above what they would be making if the factories were not there...

And if a supercenter forces the closure of other business, I call that natural selection, and the American Way!! "

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sam wrote on Jun 29, 2008 4:48 PM:

" Giovanina wrote "In my opinion, Lodi is much too small of a town to handle a Super Walmart."

Gio, I agree. Walmart meets the needs of many people in Lodi, but we do not need a Super Store. All one has to do is drive to Holman and Hammer in Stockton. Is that an intersection that we want in Lodi? NO.

If Lodi ignores it's small town feeling that makes it so precious, it will be gone in a POOF. "

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Observer wrote on Jun 29, 2008 2:31 PM:

" Don't worry, I'm here papercutting taxpayer. I just refuse to comment on this subject any longer. It's run its course several times and nothing I can say hasn't been said several times. I don't need to post just to seem my name. These blogs are just not my priority. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 29, 2008 1:23 PM:

" al, are you commonsense1 and observer, too? "

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papercut wrote on Jun 29, 2008 1:17 PM:

" Walmart will TELL Lodi city council WHAT they WANT, like the builders, developers and retired real estate appraisers do. What's this escapade going to cost us this time? Isn't the option date running out for Browman and his financial backers? There's no sucker in the world that's going to invest in any kind of strip mall, with or without Walmart, in these tough financial times. I look for Walmart to make Lodi give some heavy financial incentives and to let them demolish that old building they're in. Hang on to your hats. I saw a locksmith oiling up the hinges on the back door of the Carnegie Forum Friday. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:35 AM:

" Mrs. S. wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:48 PM:

" Re: CC4Lodi @ Jun 28, 2008 9:28 AM:

We didn't park in a Supercenter parking lot, but when we were driving east, we had to stop in Elko NV. We got a motel room close to the Wal-Mart Supercenter so we could get some tires at the tire center, because we had an emergency with ours.

That store was very nice, very clean, and nice to shop in. I haven't seen the same thing in Wal-Marts in California, though. "

The one in Carson City, NV, is also very clean. Look who works there. People that grew up in a culture that cleanliness is very important. Managers in Nevada aren't looking for indentured servants. This doesn't happen here. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2008 4:34 PM:

The only people who want to take away that choice are the anti-WalMart crowd. Facists! "

Walmart is already here, just not a Super Center. I think Elk Grove is bigger than Lodi, and it has the same size Walmart. Uless we are the same size as Stockton, we really have no business with a Stockton Size Super Center. Of course, we will get the Stockton size crime problem, if we do get it. "

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Giovanina wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:24 AM:

" I don't think this is a liberal issue. It is an economic one and it depends on your perspective. If you look at it just from your shoes, Super Walmart will save you money but there are consequences. In my opinion, Lodi is much too small of a town to handle a Super Walmart. It would be too much of a threat to existing businesses.

Many of those existing businesses, that will also have the products Walmart does not carry, may shutdown. Then you will see how far you have to go because Walmart doesn't have it.

What could happen, is like Elk Grove. You build a walmart and all these people start moving into the area. Many of these people you may not want living next door to you. Then you go from a small to a Super center and...

I say keep the Super Walmart in Stockton. The Walmart we have is the right size for this town, at the moment. We have enough, drug addict, illegal alien, and Norteno shoppers, as it is. We don't need to attract more. "

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al da long wrote on Jun 29, 2008 10:51 AM:

" papercut, you forgot to tell us the price difference on the Toilet paper you bought also, you must use a lot of it, because you are full of it. "

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cj wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:44 AM:

" gator..probably all stores just about have chinese products in them. Unfortunately it is unavoidable. I will try my best to avoid buying in foreign product if there is a USA made product available. Domestic manufacturing is very important to our economy. Many people have lost their jobs to outsourcing, or are threatened by it everyday. As far as why I personally don't like Walmarts or Starbucks or Lowes, for that matter, is they have forced many small businesses I did business with close. Many were very long time businesses in Lodi. It is very hard for the small, independent business person to compete against giants, even if they do offer superior customer service. The giants can buy better, which gives them a tremendous advantage in price. But if you look closer at all of the prices at a Lowes or Walmart, etc., they may be cheaper on some products, but not necessarily in all products. In case you can't tell, I am for the small business person. "

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Gator wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:08 AM:

" Chinese Products,Qusetion what store
in Lodi isn't full of Chinese Products?

Wallies World and Starbucks a part of the American Idea,start small, grow,employ lot's of people but don't get too big or you become the enemy!!!!
What a load of crap!!!! "

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mrsfrankyb wrote on Jun 29, 2008 6:43 AM:

" The reason it has taken so long to build a super center is because of the legal issues I read about in the papers a couple of years ago.

Now everyone wants a supercenter. I don't understand Lodi's thinking. "

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Mad Dog wrote on Jun 29, 2008 2:12 AM:

" Lodian: Wal-Mart's start to get dumpy looking because of all that lead in the chinese products...if they don't shovel it out the door once in awhile, it can get to 2 or 3 feet deep in some departments! I know....bad joke. "

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Lodian wrote on Jun 29, 2008 1:36 AM:

" Why do they allow Wal-Marts to get so dumpy? "

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Mrs. S. wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:48 PM:

" Re: CC4Lodi @ Jun 28, 2008 9:28 AM:

We didn't park in a Supercenter parking lot, but when we were driving east, we had to stop in Elko NV. We got a motel room close to the Wal-Mart Supercenter so we could get some tires at the tire center, because we had an emergency with ours.

That store was very nice, very clean, and nice to shop in. I haven't seen the same thing in Wal-Marts in California, though. "

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Mrs. S. wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:33 PM:

" I rarely shop at the Lodi Wal-Mart anymore. It's too inconvenient, since I'm in a hurry when I shop for groceries, and I don't have time to divide up my shopping between food items and detergent, etc.

But Wal-Mart always has the cheapest detergent and cleaner prices. The Stockton Supercenter also has groceries, but it's not worth the gas to go there. Their meat prices are often higher than the grocery stores, and their produce isn't as fresh. Their shelved items are cheaper, though. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:48 PM:

" nellie and commom, you are so easy to rattle. Is that the only lame responses you have for me? Why is it you're so worried about my opinion, unless of course, you're from the dark side and part of this problem. What did I say to offend you if you aren't involved? And, no, I don't shop at Walmart but once in a blue moon. I still don't begrudge those that do. I do most of my shopping on the internet so I don't have to pay any state or local taxes and products are always at least 15% cheaper than even Walmart. Who do you try to cheat and bully when I'm not available? LMAO "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 28, 2008 6:36 PM:

" Papercut: Concerning that "freebie" water well: I believe that was put there, not for Wal-Marts use, it was used many years ago to water the crop`s that at one time were grown there, there hasn`t been anything grown on that land for at least 10 years, not allot of profit in a field of weeds. Two years ago a contractor bored across Hwy. 12 to install a new water pipe, take a look, there is a cage build around it and stop complaining. I agree, leave it to the citizens of Lodi to vote again if necessary, measure R said what the citizens wanted the first time around. Just like anything else, put a laywer in your pocket and anything can be acomplished , thats why Michael Morales is still alive. "

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Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:32 PM:

" Papercut: "And this Lodi Superwalmart is just a land deal between the wealthy family that owns that corner...."

Isn't that your rant on just about every issue in our lil village?

OK, we get it. You don't like the successful, hard working, risk taking business people in this town because they are wealthy.

But isn't that the American Dream? Work hard, learn, make money, work for yourself, invest in the community, and employee other residents.

So what is your beef? Oh ya, they're rich.

As my father always said, "the world needs ditch diggers too. "

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commonsense1 wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Paperweight, I guess this means we won't be seeing you at the new Wal Mart? How disappointing. As you were describing your shopping list, I noticed you forgot to mention the Listerine for that bad mouth problem you have. Who was cheaper Wal Mart or Target? "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2008 4:34 PM:

" What's up with all you haters? Many of you seem to be under some kind of bizarre impression that everyone will be forced to shop there at gunpoint. If you don't like WalMart, DON'T SHOP THERE! we all have the freedom to spend our dollars wherever we wish. The only people who want to take away that choice are the anti-WalMart crowd. Facists! "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:48 PM:

" dogs, I just came back from Walmart and Target, looking for an item to clean my car with. Walmart first and then Target to compare prices. Saved myself $8.75 on the exact name and model at Target. I also priced other items and Walmart was cheaper on two of them but only by 75 cents. And check out pet foods at Walmart. Last time I bought Friskies cat food it was 37 cents a can, but if you bought the same Friskies cat food in a cardboard encased 12-pack, it was 49 cents more expensive than if you bought 12 seperate cans. Walmart has been proven to be the worse retailer for overcharging its customers on a regular basis and taking three or more days to correct those overcharges on their store registers. Many times that's why you see price reductions on certain products. You can also see how Walmart operates by reading "How Walmart is destroying America (and the world). I believe there are now three paperback editions, each one covering the advancement of Walmart's manipulation of those who don't really know what their business practices really involve. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:28 PM:

" dogs, Walmart paid for that left turn lane like they paid to have Lower Sac and Highway 12 (Kettleman Lane) completely redone. That was done by Caltrans contract to the road scabs, thanks to measure K bond monies, and was a joint venture for Walmart, Lowe's, Safeway and the new housing and developments. Why did'nt they instead spend those public monies on the stretch of Hwy. 12 between here and the SJ county line going west where everyone is complaining about so many road deaths? You really think one left turn lane makes a difference. That was all freebie work for those named businesses to attract them to that property that was owned by the Snider and Geweke family. I believe one of those families owns that property that will become super Walmart. Don't you notice the freebie water well and service that was also given to them by the city of Lodi that's already on that property. Now, I believe that Walmart is going to issue an ultimatum to Lodi to show its hand and, unfortunately, it's going to be what Walmart wants and not at half the original offer. That property has lost much of its value andisn'tworth-it-anymore. "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:38 PM:

" dogs4you...I personally like to take my car to a local shop for tires or repairs where they know me and my car.
As far as Wal-Mart bringing in new business like the Lowe's shopping center, are you aware of how many businesses have come and gone there already, as well as the current Wal-Mart center? Same thing as the little businesses east of Target. A Big Box store isn't necessarily good for bringing in long-time new businesses that last. Wal-Mart usually has control who moves into the center. If they sell something that Wal-Mart offers, they aren't aloud in the center. Talk about putting the brakes on competition. "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:27 PM:

" CJ : Be glad there`s an Apple market to shop at, and also be glad you have the choise to shop there. But they don`t sell tires or change oil. I love the idea of one stop shopping, and Wal-Mart just might bring an Olive Garden with them, something like chicks around the mother hen. Just like Lowe`s across the street. As far as traffic is concerned, Wal-Mart paid for the left turn lanes that will allow traffic to enter the parking lot going north on Lower Sac. so traffic should not be a problem. Just like Obama keeps preaching, its all about Change. "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:15 PM:

" The people of Lodi voted for Wal-mart, but many of the votes were meant for the opposite. If you will remember after the vote, the paper said that many people were confused on how they voted. Many thought they were voting against it, when in fact they were voting for it. The wording was unclear to many voters. Apparently not every one is as smart on you, T & C. If Lodi put it up to a vote again, (at Wal-Mart's expense)where voters knew exactly how they were voting, with no confusion, and it passed in favor of Wal-Mart, I would shut up and just not shop there, but I think the wording of the first vote was vague. "

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T & C wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:57 PM:

" umors, Stretching the actual facts, misstatment of events, Wal-Mart phobia, hysteria, grocery union haters and the every mysterious (GOB'S)" "HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE"! Lodi voted and PASSED wal-Mart's expansion! If you don't like and don't want to shop at Wal-Mart, please don't! I re3spect your shopping choices! With that said, respect our right to shop at Super Wal-Mart! If Wal-Mart pulls up stakes and moves out of Lodi, and other businesses collapse, it serves all you whiners right! You want your cake and to eat it too! You can't have it both ways! Stop being narrow minded! "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:56 PM:

" HEY DOGS4YOU...I don't buy at Wal-Mart, but I have been there with friends or relatives. I have compared their prices, and I found a lot of items not any cheaper than Target or K-mart. I don't consider them that cheap, it is a perception. Yes, they advertise cheap prices on certain items, but when you look at their overall prices, they aren't necessarily cheap. You must know your prices. Yes, Safeway, Raley's & others are probably more than a Super Wal-Mart, but they also offer customer service...I do most of my food shopping at Apple Market. For a small store, their prices are better than most big grocery stores. They have the cheapest price on milk that I have seen in Lodi. A 1/2 gal is $1.79. Everywhere else, it is over $2.00. I bet even Wal-Mart is over $2.00. Apple Market actually sells a true 1/g gal of ice cream, without raising their price. Have you noticed most ice creams are 1.5 or 1.75 qts but sell as the same price as 1/2 gal. What I am getting at is small store can be as economic to shop at, as Wal-Mart. "

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dogs4you wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:19 PM:

" I have just read all the comments about don`t shop at Wal-Mart. Here`s the deal all you Wal-Mart haters, if the prices get much higher, and Wally World offers food and everything else at a lower price, come on face it, you might wear a Richard Nixon mask with Betsy leading the parade, but you will shop where you can find the lowest prices. Besides they just might bring in some better places to eat. If you hate Wal-Mart that much, Safeway is just across the steet where you can pay a 1/3 more, besides there`s no arm bending to go to Wal-Mart, just lower prices. I can`t wait to hear all the moaning about this. "

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shrubeater wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:15 PM:

" OK, let's make a deal. Why doesn't everyone go to the current WalMart in the next couple of days. Please just LOOK at as many items as you can and see if it's MADE IN CHINA. Walmart has gutted the US manufacturing base. We cannot compete with slave labor: children, mentally and physcially disabled people, and the Chinese people at large who make $5,000 a year. They already own 60% of our treasury notes (that's how the war was paid for). So go ahead and shop away folks. As far as hurting downtown, different clientele. "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:15 PM:

" RE: CC4Lodi comments at 9:12am. Do you know what Wal-Mart gives back to charities? I recently read a report on charitable contributions of big businesses. Wal-Mart & their heirs (of many are listed on the richest people) give back a lot less percentage wise than other big businesses. Yes they give back, but not much in respective to their riches.
And where does Wal-Mart & their heirs spend their profits to shop for personal goods? Certainly not in Lodi or even Calif. Lodi-owned businesses do spend what little profit they do make in Lodi, and give to local charities.

Lodi has plenty of hair/nail shops, tax services, tire shops, etc. already in Lodi. Small business owners work very hard to survive as it is. They don't need more competition from Wal-Mart. When you need your washer fixed, or your a/c fixed, or your taxes prepared, will your favorite service person still be in business? "

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anayud wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:56 PM:

" The city of Vernon, CA was the first industrial city in the Southernwestern U.S. Unlike cities such as Lodi that make it difficult for large enterprises to locate because they are primarily residential, Vernon sought out large firms. Commercial enterprises like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. should consider supporting such a concept. Location adjacent to a freeway would be ideal for an industrial/commercial city. The city would welcome large stores that residential cities are understandably leery about and also reduce traffic in those cities. This would be a win-win situation for the stores, the cities and shoppers who prefer large stores. Of course the cities would have to do without the tax base, but local stores would make up for that. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:44 PM:

" And why should Walmart be the only one allowed to break or cancel a long term lease like these other businesses have? The Walmart was part of the reason they located where they did and I'm sure many of them have signed long term leases. It looks like they're about to be duped big time to me. Why doesn't the Sentinel or Stockton Record do an article on the thoughts and options of those business owners if the city council lets Walmart con them? How about some honest opinions from those who will be directly involved and placed their trust in this city council and Walmart to fulfill their promises. Oh, and watch the movie. I understand that even Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and even Tony Snow thought Walmart should change their evil ways, especially when it comes to their employees and their sweatshop practices. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:36 PM:

" mad dog, walmart won't take any of these franchises along with them. They'll be all new franchises, vendors and businesses that Browman already has chosen and the same ones they partner with at all of their strip malls. Why doesn't Lodi build a nice regional mall right off of 99 where access wouldn't be a problem, something Vintage Faire in Modesto and instead of sprawling it out on much wasted acreage, make it two levels, with a nice parking structure to accomodate shoppers and employees alike? That corner on Kettleman and Lower Sac is so congested already and having to drive home on 12 west amongst the impaired wine tasters will only add to Hwy. 12 woes. "

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Mad Dog wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:22 PM:

" Regarding the comments about Rver's being able to park in Wal-Mart's parking lot, they already do this at the existing location. A super center wont change this practice. It was said that a super center will have a nail salon, eye care center, flu shots, McDonald's, etc. The existing Wal-Mart has most of that and if it doesnt have a nail salon, I believe there is one right next door. I wonder how that business feels about Wal-Mart competition? "

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Mad Dog wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:16 PM:

" T&C: You are welcome to disagree with me- that's fine. I just ask people to watch that movie and make their own decision. Wal-Mart has followed the same pattern in city after city. Lodi will not be different. Once a super center is built, the exisitng Wal-Mart building will remain vacant for years to come. How does that help Lodi? Wal-Mart fights property tax bills on every location they have. An empty building will be worth much less so they will want their taxes lowered. If senior citizens enjoy shopping at Wal-Mart, then great. We already have one for them to visit. "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:55 AM:

" To cc4Lodi...Where do you get that I was referring to the murder in the Wal-Mart parking lot? I NEVER mentioned anything about the murder. Are you like a lot of bloggers on the LNS sites, reading something that is not there? It didn't even cross my mind when I wrote my blog. Just because the murder happened in the parking lot of Wal-mart doesn't make it a Wal-Mart murder. I totally agree with that. Wal-Mart wasn't responsible, or neither of the other businesses in that lot. Wal-Mart is evil for other reasons. For example, they use their money and clout to intimidate U.S. manufactures and other people to get what they want, no matter what the cost. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:34 AM:

" CC4Lodi, what does the 4 mean? Hansen, Johnson, Katzakian and Hitchcock? You sound just like one of those responsible for the bankruptcy and bad decisions made since September 2005. Just how much tax revenue Walmart will provide with their non-taxable groceries and personal services? "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:27 AM:

" I blame a lot of it on ex-chief Hansen, who turned his head the other way those years he was chief and let the eastside crime become what it is, and still is, and the new chief hasn't changed a thing. They spend more time at Walmart, Food4Less and Penney's questioning shoplifting suspects than they do on patrol. Apparently you haven't watched the movie about the real Walmart. The more you blog, the more you sound like one of the three ayemeegos or their distraught wives. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:21 AM:

" And don't forget that Walmart will offer automotive services, brakes, complete tire shop, mechanical, dental, eyecare, loan and banking services and, yes, transfer every penny to their own main financial branch in Bentonville, Arkansas every evening, leaving Lodi with nothing but will have taxable writeoffs for their DONATIONS to their beloved cities. You can kiss your local tire stores and auto mechanics goodbye. It's part of the plan, with the major purpose to attract ALL food stamp and WIC participants they can. Lodi is worth a fortune in food stamps revenues alone. It should boost Grape Line ridership immensely from the poor eastside residents to the new site. Food4Less and Rancho San Miguel will see their business drop by 50%. "

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CC4Lodi wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:17 AM:

" cj: The horrific murder was in the shopping ctr & actually near the taco bell. Is this the fault of Walmart? Taco Bell?Strings? Why blame Walmart on every situation just cause it is in their place of business or in their parking lot? At any establishment in our Town, do you place the owner of the business, the City officials because it isn't manned properly or enough at fault? Who's fault is it that there is crime & issues in front of a theatre, or a restaurant or in front of City Hall or on the train tracks or at the park, or the famous City's "Grape Festival"? Do we blame the owner, City Father's or those committing the crime at these places? Crime is ongoing and continual within all cities so Why place Walmart to blame for these type of incidents occurring within their facility? Nonsense and stupidity for this type of blame. The parking lot Murder was a bad happening & to blame Walmart or any of the stores in that parking lot is unfair. Things happen, you know that. Quit pointing blame in Walmart's direction; you appear very hateful. "

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cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:43 AM:

" Wal-Mart is evil!..that statement will anger a lot of people. The documentary that Mad Dog mentioned tells the story. They have help shut down many long time U.S. manufacturers with their bullying. What do we get from China? Cheap products that don't last long & contain lots of lead, because they don't care. Where does Wal-Mart get most of their products? At one time, they use to promote products made in America. Not any more.

I don't see where the tax base is going to increase that much. It would be the 'Take from Paul and give to Peter' syndrome. The taxable sales will just come from other existing businesses, and help those long-time businesses close. You would only be transferring sales. Yes, it will keep some people from going to Stockton to shop. But with the cost of gas now, who can afford to go to Stockton? Wal-Mart would be adding groceries, which mostly aren't taxable. Neither are sales for glasses, hair & nails & other services. AND WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER McDONALDS! My in-laws use to shop at Wal-Mart all the time. Not anymore, after seeing that documentary mentioned by Mad Dog. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:40 AM:

" I have nothing against Walmart except the fact that they treat their employees like crap and consider 32 hours a full work week to avoid paying overtime or benefits. And this Lodi Superwalmart is just a land deal between the wealthy family that owns that corner that's good for nothing now but another strip mall and who now still wants 2005 prices for that weedpatch.Walmart will give Lodi an ultimatum and they'll either take it or leave it. The council can make the decision whether they want super Walmart or to destroy their own downtown area. Greed always wins out here in Lodi and I fully expect the new store to be built. I don't condemn those of you who shop there, that's your choice. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:34 AM:

" cc4lodi, if they're such safe havens, why haven't they got a clue who murdered those two men in that cadillac when walmart first opened. You' see half the derelicts in their parking lot and the other half at Food4Less. There are more vendors in their parking lots than there are shops in their strip malls. "

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T & C wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Papervut, What are you going to do when you have whined about every subject or issue? Please don't tell us you are going to start over on your list again? Nothing pleases you, ever. We never see you at the spearhead of any effort to remove or get rid of all the conspiracy theories you project! The grocery chain unions are the only ones forcing Wal-Mart to give up so they have no COMPETITION over high food prices! Let's make a deal, Okay? You shop at the grocery chains and go broke first! Gas prices = No extra money! "

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CC4Lodi wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:28 AM:

" Papercut, to u I want to say, another svs for the customer is whined upon..someday when you travel around and want a safe place to park your vehicle & need to shop for necessities and think about the Walmart and their provisions, remember you won't be participating because of papers that are all over that a few inconsiderate people leave around (same ones that leave trash in parks, beaches, hwy, etc.)the senior's look forward to their favorite Walmart to visit,shop and park their vehicle that provides the sleep they need to continue on their journey...a convenience to the customer that you want to take away, due to other's trashy ways...at the end of the day and the beginning of the next, we have to clean up what they left behind...do you think we like it? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! We continue this service as a safe haven and a place they can count on. Shame on you for calling them Oakies. You are out of touch and critical over what you do not understand. Some may be undesirable but this provision is for all that follow the guidelines; If they do break them, they will be asked to move on. "

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sam wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:18 AM:

" Mad Dog, I agree. It is a great documentary. "

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CC4Lodi wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:12 AM:

" What u are not realizing is: with a Supercenter, there are more choices due to more product in the store.More will shop and buy not only non-taxable items but shop to buy taxable as well.The shops inside will have customers that provide additional revenue i.e.nail salon, hair salon, vision, McDonalds.Also for the customer's convenience, a tax service located inside Walmart during tax season. How about Flu Shots and Health services you can find for the convenience of the customer, so they can do shopping and take advantages of the extra services? Yes Walmart does benefit and so does the customer.If Walmart does not benefit it is hard to provide all the millions of $$$ to non-profits it gives out, especially during the catastrophic events,do you still want to critize or praise Walmart? Get a grip, we need to thank Sam Walmart and his vision for starting up this #1 Retailer that u don't want to exist as a Sprcenter. As a Sprcenter, it can do so much more for Lodi. Some find it hard to praise the Good Works. Walmart has proven that it gives back globally due to its profitabilities. Why not appreciate that these benefit? "

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patton1 wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:42 AM:

" I am all for increased tax revenue but since we have a WALMART and this will be a WALMART with non taxable groceries, were does Lodi realize a meaningful increase in sales tax? "

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CC4Lodi wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:20 AM:

" Opposers & critics are everywhere. The supercenter was voted on and accepted. Other business's went up (car dealerships,other retailers)currently the expense/economy is hurting everyone, Walmart would be a help. Jobs, low prices..quit whining opposes and let the voters vote happen and if you don't like growth, maybe you need to reconsider a location where growth is not happening..WALMART SUPERCENTER SUPPORTER. P.S. My family has lived here since early 1920's...we do know Lodi's history..it is now 2008..grow Lodi and whiners put your energy elsewhere where it makes sense. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Do you see okies camping overnight in Super K's parking lots, t & c? And the trash left behind every night? It all boils down to the EIR. They've been trying to sneak something through for a year now, but the opposition is keeping them honest and not letting them get away with anything but the truth on this EIR. "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Looks like Betsy has gotten tired of spewing her liberal hatred at WalMart, and has decided to spew it at Fox News. But liberals are usually happy as long as they have something, or someone, to hate. "

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papercut wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:01 AM:

" That super Walmart would fit right in Reynolds Ranch, next to the BC/BS building. There won't be any homes built there for years and it'll have easy freeway access on and off when Gillespie gets Frontage road widened. We already have a walmart that's doing well so they should locate themselves in south Galt off the freeway as a second choice. "

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T & C wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:43 AM:

" Sorry Mad Dog, but I disagree! I am a disabled vet and Wal-Mart offers me quality, selection, value and excellent serve! One look at the Wal-Mart parking lot compared to poor old K-Mart and you will recognize where the community invests their money in most! I just love the complainers! If ya don't like Wal-Mart, don't shop there! Did you need someone from this forum to finally give you sound advice? People will shop where they want! Bottom line... If you have extra money to waste on buying the SAME thing somewhere else, "Go for it"! "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:40 AM:

" I still say that if I were WalMart, and I met the kind of oppositional roadblocks Lodi put in my way, I would not build a Supercenter. Then I would close my current store, and build a Supercenter in a neighboring town. Then I would wallow in the satisfaction of knowing how much revenue I was taking away from the city who disrespected me. Then I would throw my head back and laugh my evil laugh. Waahahahahah! "

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Cogito wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:21 AM:

" It would be nice for Boonablis to have a shiny new store where her and her friends can work and hang out. Probably get a good deal on cheap beer too! "

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Mad Dog wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:16 AM:

" I highly recommend that everyone see the movie: Wal-Mart, The High Cost of Low Price. You WILL think twice about Wal-Mart and its affect on business in Lodi after you see that movie. "

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