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The following stories have received the most reader comments during the last 7 days.
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Tattoos, education and trash culture
Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:15 AM PDT
I am Mary Ward, the tattooed English teacher at Tokay High School. I graduated magna cum laude from California State University, Sacramento with a degree in English.
I am a lifetime member of Sigma Tau Delta, International English Honors Society. During my time at CSUS, I was on the Dean's List every semester. Like the other teachers at Tokay, I endeavor to provide students with the best education possible. This year, in addition to completing the senior project, my seniors read "The Epic of Gilgamesh," "Beowulf," Dante's "Inferno," "Macbeth," "The Metamorphosis," "No Exit" and "Oedipus Rex," among other works. I encourage critical thought and civilized intellectual debate in my classroom.
I am dismayed at some of the blogs posted in reference to my tattoos. First of all, I would never encourage a student to get a tattoo. I do not flaunt my tattoos. I was asked to show my back for a picture for the student newspaper. The student who took the picture had known me for 3 years and had never seen my tattoo. Furthermore, it is ridiculous to assume that because I have tattoos, I represent trash culture (as one blogger put it), or that I am a narcissist, as another commented. I am an intelligent, creative human being. The fact that I have tattoos has nothing to do with the quality education I try to provide Tokay's students.
I invite any of those people who think that my tattoos are detrimental to the educational process to spend the day in my classroom. Then they can make judgments about me as a person and an educator, if they feel that it is necessary. The 723 was the STAR score for the 2006-2007 school year. I told my students if they met the goal set by the school (711), I would have the number tattooed on my back. They surpassed that goal and I kept my promise. By the way, I am not the only teacher with tattoos. Many other excellent teachers have them as well. This includes a past Educator of the Year.
Mary Ward
Acampo
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WY wrote on Jul 2, 2008 11:27 PM:
sam wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:21 AM:
WY wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:12 AM:
WY wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:12 AM:
WY wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:11 AM:
sam wrote on Jul 2, 2008 7:53 AM:
WY wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:19 PM:
cj wrote on Jul 1, 2008 3:37 PM:
OTH wrote on Jul 1, 2008 3:26 PM:
The term you may be looking for is "himbo." "
sam wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:50 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:45 PM:
"Lodian, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's it."
sam: That's exactly right. I have a feeling that some of the folks posting here are a bit trashy and they have no tattoos whatsoever. "
SAM wrote on Jun 30, 2008 5:39 PM:
What is beautiful and meaningful to me may not be to you. It is that simple.
I just get tired with all these "perfect" people telling Mary what she should and should not like on her body. "
Lodian wrote on Jun 30, 2008 11:19 AM:
CJ wrote on Jun 30, 2008 12:19 AM:
WY wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:20 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:14 PM:
Welcome to the blog. :) "
CJ wrote on Jun 29, 2008 10:15 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:20 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:20 PM:
Anyone can present a boring spell checked blog. Only a few gifted bloggers can put their heart out there with passion. Keep the passion coming, WY. "
CJ wrote on Jun 29, 2008 7:12 PM:
CJ wrote on Jun 29, 2008 7:07 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 29, 2008 6:55 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 29, 2008 6:40 PM:
Sam... I had no iea about the spell check. bahahah
I like it my way. I stuggle with some things and that is ok with me. I will become embarassed of my short comings and blog with my dictionary close by. :) I'm so OK with that.
G74... there are other words, "flaunting" is a bit over the top. "
Lodian wrote on Jun 29, 2008 2:53 PM:
dogbark wrote on Jun 29, 2008 12:25 PM:
Giovanina wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:01 AM:
" How can one be taught common sense? "
If you have to ask then I would be afraid to see what your kids might act like, in a classroom, not having any. "
sam wrote on Jun 29, 2008 10:01 AM:
Ivan is my favorite blogger. "
Jess wrote on Jun 29, 2008 7:13 AM:
He is addressing Tom. Read Tom's blog and then read how Ivan takes Tom's complaints a bit further, all the way over the top. He is funny.
My guess is that Ivan has no problems with tatoos. He is trying to point out how silly the complainers' logic is. "
tinyhands10 wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:13 PM:
it looks like a person who goes by Ivan Dixon wrote that back on the 27th... i scrolled down a ways to see what everyone has been saying. i HAD to comment once i read that... it makes me sick!
i got from their post that they are christian and thats great, i have no problem with that. im a christian also. its the crazy idea that tattoos lead to a bad lifestyle.
my husband also has a tattoo... a cross that takes up nearly 80% of his back. guess what our pastor said when he saw it?? "That's awesome"
people need to lighten up really. if my tattoo isnt hurting anyone but myself, then it shouldnt matter. i may not like someone's choices in life, but if it has nothing to do with me and my living, i say go on then.
live and let live "
cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:05 PM:
tinyhands10 wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:24 PM:
what if you meet someone, think they are a great person, lovable, funny and get along with them perfectly. then you find out they have a tattoo... does your opinion automatically change? "
cj wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:27 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:41 PM:
Giovanina wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:16 PM:
" Gio-Apparently, you did not read the letter. All of the works mentioned in my letter are part of the high school curriculum for 12th grade English. I know of teachers who are not tattooed who did not cover the amount and quality of curriculum I covered this year
Sorry, but amount and quality is YOUR own opinion. Some classes need different levels or amounts of curriculum depending on the levels of the students of the classes. This is just an your opinion, and sort of arrogant. I am learning so much about you, tell me more about how great you are. Do you teach an AP class?
I have a hometown ex-friend, that I grew up with. He got straight A's in High school, got straight A's in UCLA Engineering, and works for a military defense company in Southern California. But because he had no common sense, he lost his friends, his first fiancee, and then his wife and child. No one wants him around, he hides in his house. "
Giovanina wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:58 PM:
" cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:37 PM:
" Sam...have you ever heard the very old saying...."they may have book smarts, but no street smarts.'?
Apparently, some people have neither. "
Do you seem to be an expert in that category?
Touche "
Giovanina wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:55 PM:
" 1988 Supreme Court - Hazelwood.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_v._Kuhlmeier
yes, wiki is not the end all, but is a good recap. READ the whole thing. Administrations can not censor articles based on personal opinion.
And clearly, this is a topic of personal opinion
This deal was made in a classroom where free speech rights are limited. There should have been no discussion about getting a tatoo, in a public school classroom, regardless of your educational level. Teachers are in a public school as an agent of the district. You had no right to suggest or entertain such an idea. It should have been dropped. "
Giovanina wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:49 PM:
" DA DA DA - LEO to the rescue, ridding the internet of those with opposing views. His weapons, smug superiority and inuendo and name calling. He will intimidate all who do not believe as he does, stalking their posts to the end of the world wide web.
Hi Tom,
welcome to the board!
Wow, you pegged Leonard faster than some people.
Another tactic, he uses, is socratic method. Except he isn't really doing it for intelliectual dicourse. He uses it to make inferences for name calling and personal attacks. In his mind, he believes that if he is not using declaratives, he can't be blamed. As his answer is: where did I call you this or that? "
Lodian wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:53 PM:
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:24 PM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazelwood_v._Kuhlmeier
yes, wiki is not the end all, but is a good recap. READ the whole thing. Administrations can not censor articles based on personal opinion.
And clearly, this is a topic of personal opinion.
At this point, in the great words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
Or at least agree that we disagree.
Mary, I love your ink. I have ink. I am not ashamed of my ink. It tells a story, a journey, a healing process.
Some of you really need a life. "
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:12 PM:
" Tom Carlson (Jun 27 @ 7:55 AM): Perhaps it is the administration that should hear your objection to the tattoo story as the school paper was the genesis of this story. The admin allowed it so let them know your response to their choice. "
Huh, Lodian, have you ever heard of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS???
The battle between student newspapers and school administrations is decades old. As I recall, this issue has gone to the Supreme Court.
Maybe Principal Sandstrom wanted to cut the article. Nothing he could do. "
sam wrote on Jun 27, 2008 5:35 PM:
I do not know Mary, but from the passion coming from WY's blogs, WY knows and loves Mary. I want a friend like that on my side.
...and glad spell check worked for you. "
nylodian wrote on Jun 27, 2008 4:14 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 27, 2008 4:11 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:32 PM:
As for WY??? WY gets too excited and passionate to spell check. That is what makes WY unique. Confused by one of WY's blogs??? just add a vowel.
Rock on, WY. "
cj wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:29 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:26 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:24 PM:
But then everyone is at one time or another. But I am confused what you mean that I am flaunting my business skills. You don't even know what kind of businesses I own. It could a bowling alley, restaurant, gas station, Day Spa, so on. So how am i flaunting my business skills? I didn't even know I had business skills. "
WY wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:23 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:18 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:16 PM:
I don't totally disagree with you. "
WY wrote on Jun 27, 2008 3:13 PM:
I think it's cool that you work hard and own a business / businesses... Are you "flaunting" your business skills talking about yourself?
Now I'm being a smart azz to you.
You think now you might think before you talk smack on a person that makes a difference in our young peoples lives. All this over a damn tattoo. I believe if you are a woman and have two businesses you rock. It is a hard world for a hemale business owner. I know this to be true. "
Lodian wrote on Jun 27, 2008 12:02 PM:
Lodian wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:39 AM:
dyan wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:44 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:14 AM:
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:05 AM:
You are a legend in your own mind - SUPER LEO. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:47 AM:
" If you care so little, Leo, why do you continually stalk me on this board.
Sigh....
Tom, if you don't want to look like an idiot, don't say stupid things.
You cannot blame me for your continued humiliation on these blogs, you have brought all of that upon yourself. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:44 AM:
Why have you taken such and interest in me?
Do you sit at your computer with blue tights and a red cape and black mask on while you fight the imaginary forces of evil in your mind?
Why does every blog have to be a fight with you? Why not sharing information on an adult level?
It is so easy when you don't have to get called for your words, isn't it Leo. No accountablity for what you write. No one to call you on the carpet. Just you in your cape ridding the world of evil. What a strange life you must lead. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:41 AM:
Tattoos are the work of the devil. The Bible warns us against marking our bodies. First its a tattoo, then its cocaine and then its just one more step to homosexual fornification.
I do have to tell you though that if you had been here longer you would know that Leonard moved to Texas a couple of months ago. I myself, however, can vouch for his business etc. Heck, I've known the guy over 38 years now. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:37 AM:
If you would like an illustration of this fact, just ask Lodian about her encounter with the poster called "Real Facts" earlier this year.
The whole thing started off innocently enough with a simple noxious troll. Before long, however, that troll was making violent threats against Lodian and her family. In the end, the guy was essentially a full blown stalker.
I am sure that you are just a harmless fool but I will not provide the Real Facts of this world with my actual identity or information that might allow them to do harm to my wife or my child.
I am would say that I am sorry if that diminishes your opinion of me but the truth is that I honestly don't care. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:27 AM:
Why not unmask yourself? Scared? Don't want people to know the "real Leo". Might be bad for business.
I will be happy to give you my personal history - in person - if you would like to take off your mask and tell me who you really are.
Where do you own a business in Lodi? Are you ashamed of it? "
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:22 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:21 AM:
" Leo - who are you. I would like to come to your business and see what you are really like.
First of all, plenty of people here know me. Some of them have known me my whole life.
Second of all, based on what I've seen of you in your writing, I have absolutely no desire to meet you in person. I doubt anyone else does either. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:17 AM:
I bet you don't even have a business.
Lets talk. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:05 AM:
" Lodian, I take issue with your implication that I am not a good parent. That is a pretty cheap shot, considering you don't even know my kids.
AND
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 12:57 PM:
You are so arrogant, Leo. You must not have kids of your own, but if you do, you must not care how they turn out.
ROTFLMAO at the brazen hypocrisy!!!
Give it up Tom, there is nothing to be gained by making an even bigger fool of yourself than you have already. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 27, 2008 7:55 AM:
I believe we all agree that what Mary does in private is her business. The disagreement comes from what she is allowed to do in the capacity of her PUBLIC teaching job. Since I don't have the $ to send my kids to private school, I MUST send them to PUBLIC school. The PUBLIC act of a PUBLIC employee is fair game for discussion. I feel it is wrong to promote tattoos. I am saying that. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 27, 2008 7:16 AM:
" Sam...another version of the saying is..they may have book smarts but no common sense. It means the same thing. Apparently you only know people with book smarts, or you probably would have heard the saying
Sigh....
My point was that just because you are uneducated doesn't necessarily mean that you have some other sort of native intelligence.
There are just as many uneducated idiots in this world as their are educated ones. "
Lodian wrote on Jun 27, 2008 12:02 AM:
Tom: There are quite a few things that your teenager will be exposed to in his/her day. It is up to YOU to teach your morals and values to them. A teacher with a tattoo is not a problem. If you see this as a problem in the raising of your teenager or young adult then perhaps they have been too sheltered. "
sunshine91 wrote on Jun 26, 2008 9:20 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:54 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:53 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:13 PM:
BUT WY I ate our first home grown tomato tonight with a fresh bell pepper and a zuchinni on a salad. YUM.
Summer is here. "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:10 PM:
It would piss me off if I busted my employee blogging. Maybe your day would be shorter if you just worked and didn't blog during the time you should be working. Hummmmm ... just my thought "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:07 PM:
Does your boss know? Do you have a tattoo? "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:04 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:04 PM:
You're a better person and these yahoos don't need any reason to attack you. i know you and so do amny many others. I wish I had your education. i know you worked very hard for it. Be proud sister friend, and shine on the blog. Be good. :) "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:59 PM:
man it's smokey out there. "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:58 PM:
You'd love Mary! "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:57 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:56 PM:
I meant My father in law has a 6th grade education, AND he is a brilliant man.
There is a difference. "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:55 PM:
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:53 PM:
Free your mind and the rest will follow! "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:52 PM:
My father in law has a 6th grade education, but he is a brilliant man.
cj, I just had to share that with you. PEACE OUT. "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:48 PM:
Have a good night. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:44 PM:
It has been fun, Madman, Sam, Leonard, and others. But it is time to call it a day at work, and go home. I'm usually at my business 10-14 hours day, so I do get tired and testy.
Ms. Ward if you read this, I hope you have a nice rest of the summer. I am sure your work at school is much appreciated. "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:44 PM:
It feels awful when people attack you without knowing you... right??
Go visit Mary in her classroom and then judge her.
cj, I wish you well. AND go back and finish that undergraduate degree (within 2 years not 8). You can do it, and you may find your passion. Just do it. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:34 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:33 PM:
Madman wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:32 PM:
Grow up, C J, we with college degrees have worked hard to get them. I have worked since I was 10 years old. Play your violin for some who will listen. Your whine is pathetic.
Wait, you were attacking Mary, now you feel like you are being attacked. How does it feel? "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:32 PM:
Ok, you caught me. I probably used the wrong word. I never said I was smart. I should have said without consequences. Sorry. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:28 PM:
" Sam...have you ever heard the very old saying...."they may have book smarts, but no street smarts.'?
Apparently, some people have neither. "
Jess wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:24 PM:
Jess wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:20 PM:
Jess wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:18 PM:
What are you saying? "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:18 PM:
have a college education. Just because you don't have a college education, doesn't make you stupid or lazy. Take Bill Gates for an example. Yes, he does make over $100,000, but he doesn't have a college degree. Would you call him dumb? "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:14 PM:
Madman wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:01 PM:
They are also the same people who make less that $100,000 a year and swear it is because they are being held back. "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:49 PM:
Gee, I'm impressed. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:37 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:36 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:34 PM:
And, you don't have to have lots of college degrees to make you smart. I am not saying I am really smart, or smarter than you. But again, the degree doesn't make you smart. I only have an AA degree, not impressive at all. My husband has only had one semester at Delta, and he is probably smarter than most people when it comes to many subjects. Also, a college degree doesn't necessarily make you have common or street smarts. "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:31 PM:
I think he got that from Forest Gump... maybe not. But I love that line. It sort of puts some of these comments into perspective. "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 6:19 PM:
I asked if they bother him. I got a one liner ..."Nope."
I asked if he would hire someone with a tattoo. He said "If he or she is what my company needs, why would a silly tattoo matter."
He is a smart guy who I love and respect. He is also a multi-millionaire. (I put that comment in because he is a superb business man)
Peace out. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:40 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:35 PM:
A parting thought: the parents of the students who have been in my class had very nice things to say, as did those people who actually know me. I guess that's the proof in the pudding. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:19 PM:
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:11 PM:
Being call 'trashy' is a whole lot different than being called not too 'smart'. I never called her trashy. I said I didn't think a smart person would have tattoos. So I wasn't necessarily calling her dumb as you put words in my mouth. "
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 26, 2008 5:10 PM:
CJ- you're showing your age. Did you have poodle skirts and saddle shoes? It's 2008. LUSD has a strict dress code for its students and kids are sent to the office on a regular basis. Teachers too have a dress code, but Principals have some discretion (ie: men's shorts). "
sam wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:43 PM:
Mary, walk away. Lodi is full of sad, lonely people who love nothing more that to tell YOU what a loser YOU are. And they all do it without ever letting you know WHO THEY ARE.
Walk away. It is clear that you are loved and appreciated as a teacher. Let those who need to tell you what is wrong with you continue to look like fools. Teach on and just walk away from this blog. "
contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:11 PM:
I do not accept the "age" excuse. The amount of time you have spent on earth does not give you the right to malign people who have different opinions than you. I am sorry you think I am not smart. I am sorry that you think my son, a tattoed Marine who has placed his life on the line for this country, is not smart. My mom, who is over 80, does not make judgements about things like tattoos. So don't say it's because of age. It sounds more like an unwillingness to accept people who are different. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:03 PM:
I am also not saying that teachers, male or female, should not wear shorts or short sleeves if they have a tattoo that would show. I am just saying that if a teacher has a tattoo on certain parts of the body that should be covered up, including a back, that teacher should not be exposing it to a student. If it is on their legs or arms, face, neck, feet, toes, then I guess it will show. Nothing can be done about that. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:47 PM:
I do understand what it is to walk in your shoes. I work with youth all the time, in a church environment. And if I hear "That's so Gay" one more time I think I will scream.
However, I think you have more influence than you beleive. While they will push the envelope, they will respond to those teachers whom they respect. You must have their respect to get them to work to get the test scores up.
My guess is you are more of a role model than you know. "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:39 PM:
Tom-I am glad you are a concerned parent. We need more of those. But stand in my shoes for a minute. I hear students who the F word constantly. I hear female students address each other as "Ho" and males address each other as "Pimp". My students say "That's GAY" all the time when they think something is stupid. (They are kicked out for that, by the way) I do not allow that kind of language in my classroom and I wonder if they use it at home. I wish I had the kind of influence people seem to think I have. I would use it to promote civility, respect for self and others, and the importance of education. Students don't revere teachers. I really try to teach my students to read with head and heart. I try to make them think, not to regurgitate. I hope someday you visit my classroom. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:27 PM:
" Leo, your creative editing leaves out the spirit and context of what I said. I should expect this from you, as your forte is name calling and inuendo.
I think the real problem may be that your creative writing failed to convey the facts of your position. I cannot be held accountable for your inability to convey your meaning. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:26 PM:
You just want to argue to make yourself look good. I am not interested in your petty attacks. Clips and excerpts do not tell the whole story. I stand by what I have said to Mary. "
You know, I get the feeling that Tom isn't really used to having his statements analyzed with a critical eye.
You know what they say Tommy Boy, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:24 PM:
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:17 PM:
You just want to argue to make yourself look good. I am not interested in your petty attacks. Clips and excerpts do not tell the whole story. I stand by what I have said to Mary. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:13 PM:
As a concerned parent, I believe I can speak on this subject.
As an American you may certainly speak on any subject you choose, no matter how silly or self contradictory your statements may be.
Just don't be surprised if other Americans stand up to point out the absurdity of what you are saying. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:11 PM:
" I will state again that I don't think there is anything wrong with you having a tattoo....That is why this controversy is at hand. Like it or not, you are teaching values to our kids
So, if there is nothing wrong with having a tattoo, why, in your mind, does the fact that Mary has one raise the issue of "values"? "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:09 PM:
For the second time, I did not say there was a link between teachers with tattoos and low test scores, you did. So you defend your own stupid assertion.
Hmmm.... so, when you wrote the following:
That is exactly what I believe, that nosey parents have the right to oversee the activities in the classroom. I am sick and tired of being told that parents lack of involvement in the classroom is the reason for failing test scores, only to be told to butt out when we get involved.
you were just wandering off topic, musing on a subject completely unrelated to the letter at hand? "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:53 PM:
For the second time, I did not say there was a link between teachers with tattoos and low test scores, you did. So you defend your own stupid assertion.
My reason for getting into this discussion is that I believe a teacher in our community made an error in judgement by consenting to be part of this article. I don't think that as a role model she should have. As a concerned parent, I believe I can speak on this subject. "
nylodian wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:47 PM:
If your child chooses to get a tattoo just because his teacher has one, I'd be more concerned about his decision-making process than the tattoo itself. "
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:41 PM:
This will SHOCK many of you, but I know for a fact that Mary does not attempt to cover up her tattoos while on campus. I've seen it personally. And I was trying to get a glimpse of her art as we passed. The colors are rich and vivid. Her artist is very good.
Obviously the THS Admin approves or they could/would have asked her to cover up if there had been a complaint.
ps: Mary, we went to school together @ LHS "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:36 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:35 PM:
" Leo, why do you make stuff up about me. Read with an "open mind" what I wrote.
Apparently, for Tom, in order to have an open mind one must be willing to accept his statements, no matter how absurd or self evidently false they may be. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:33 PM:
I understand that you do not like people to point out the obvious contradictions in your statements but if you are going to continue to make self refuting posts you are just going to become accustomed to it. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:32 PM:
Most of the kids may not have known before, but now they all do.
Like it or not, you are up there with NBA and NFL stars as role models. You have a lot of influence on our kids.
Let me ask you a question, how did that article add to the education process? cont.... "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:26 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:24 PM:
I didn't show it to my class. Most of my kids never knew it was there.
What exactly is wrong with an educator having a tattoo? Parents have much more influence than teachers. They set the rules. If their children have a good relationship with them, then they will respect their PARENTS' rules.
I never encourage a student to get one. I tell them to wait until they are established in a career. Then, if they want to...go ahead. I tell them that I think some time after the age of thirty is ok. My students understand that I did not have tattoos when I was their age.
Also, what is wrong with seeing someone's back?
By the way, I do have a crucifix tattoo. No one has ever accused me of inflicting my religion upon them. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:18 PM:
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:17 PM:
Oh, that is right, you only have an open mind when it comes to your point of view.
I never said tats have anything to do with test scores. I never said Mary could not have a tattoo. You keep trying to put words in my mouth so you can argue against yourself. Leo, why don't you shut up for a while.
And sorry I don't speak German, so I don't know what your insult means. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 2:04 PM:
I also don't want to have to explain to my child that they can't have a tattoo, but it is ok that their teacher does.
What if a teacher has a motorcycle and you don't want your kid to get a motorcycle? "
cj wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:53 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:26 PM:
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this assertion? "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:22 PM:
Were you appointed Kinderfuhrer when no one was looking? "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:15 PM:
That is exactly what I believe, that nosey parents have the right to oversee the activities in the classroom. I am sick and tired of being told that parents lack of involvement in the classroom is the reason for failing test scores, only to be told to butt out when we get involved. Showing a tattoo in class is a public act on the job. It is within the pervue of the parents to comment on it. She can show her tats in private (not to students) any time she wants. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:03 PM:
Yes, the idea that that nosey parents should be able to interfere in the personal lives of teachers is absurd.
That was exactly my point. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 12:57 PM:
Why would you take away the right of concerned parents to question the judgement of an employee of the public?
You are so arrogant, Leo. You must not have kids of your own, but if you do, you must not care how they turn out. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:36 AM:
" How are the kids supposed to interpret this? "Mom says I can't have a tattoo, but my cool, educated, successful teacher has one
The same argument could be made about a car or a motorcycle. Shall the State now dictate every aspect of a teachers life?
Its funny how those who whine the most about their own Freedom care the least about the Freedom of others. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:36 AM:
I don't think you are a bad person and the cause of the decline of civilization. But I don't want my 15 year old to decide he is going to get a tat on his 18th birthday because his teacher's tat is cool. "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:31 AM:
Let me put it another way - what if your tattoo was a cross or crucifix? The same people who are supporting you would crucify you for promoting religeon.
You see, there are values attached to the actions and words of a teacher. They have such great influence on our kids that we get a little up tight about the messages that teachers are sending. cont... "
Tom Carlson wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:26 AM:
I have been reading this with mild interest, and I must say it amazes me that you cannot see the other side of the argument. First, you have every right to a tattoo, and God bless your son. I am certain you are a gifted teacher.
But, showing the class your tattoo does send a message, especially by someone the kids obviously respect. Can't you see that when you showed those kids your tat, you also expressed a view that tats are OK for anyone? This may conflict with the message delivered at home. cont... "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:11 AM:
I guess I should do some self flaggelation on my tattoed back.....
Just don't leave any marks. "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 10:06 AM:
Nylodian-It's getting silly to the extreme! :)I really wonder why having pictures on my back is so threatening to some people. Thanks to Gio, I now understand that I am personally responsible for the decline of western civilization! What a relief to finally have figured it out. I guess I should do some self flaggelation on my tattoed back..... "
WY wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:18 AM:
nylodian wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:18 AM:
So now we've been provided with the reason of the breakdown of American society - TATTOOS! And all this time I thought it had to do with the deterioration of: morals, commitment, integrity, personal responsibility and respect for others.
So much for "common sense" lol! "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:32 AM:
" One problem is many "highly educated" cosmopolitians are in positons that are being used to breakdown the American social standards, and those that disagree with that breakdown taking place, are called close minded.
I think John Stuart Mill put it best when he said "Not all conservatives are stupid people, but most stupid people are conservatives." "
Leonard wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:27 AM:
You had no right to show it to students or even admit you had one to students
I know you aren't much of one for the "book smarts" but how have you come to this conclusion? "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:19 AM:
CJ wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:46 PM:
CJ wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:26 PM:
your own business. I mean your own business. You had no right to show it to students or even admit you had one to students. I for one don't like tattoos. I am not saying I think they are trashy, but I don't think any smart person would have one. I won't let my kids have one. What can I say, if their teacher has one. You should have kept it to yourself, not at school. Also, too many people spend money on tattoos, instead of food for themselves or their families. People have no sense when it comes to tattoos. "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:52 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:43 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:40 PM:
The teachers were asked to make a challenge to the students that would actually motivate them to meet the scores. Some said they would dye their hair, some said they would sing for the students, others would shave or wear funky outfits. It created an atmosphere of collaboration between the student body and the curriculum. Mine was to get the number tattooed on me. This in no way contributed to any student getting a tattoo. It was, for the students, a permanent commitment on my part. They appreciated the fact that I would make them a permanent part of my life.
By the way, I am a conserative Republican. "
Giovanina wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:05 PM:
Giovanina wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:56 PM:
Giovanina wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:46 PM:
Giovanina wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:46 PM:
If I were a math teacher or even an English teacher, I would not be certified to be teaching in the math, Language Art, or Health area, like drug abuse, but a discussion of a tatoo obviously take place in your classes. "
midtowner wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:39 PM:
Mary: I'll take back the common sense comments also. My wife has an MBA in administrative eduacation and even though she has no tats, there are others who have the same or higher levels of eduaction with tattoos and it really doesn't botrher me, that much. Like Nellie wrote earlier, there are some professions (like insurance) which look down on tats. It's just not my bag, baby! "
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:26 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:10 PM:
By the way, I play devil's advocate all the time in my classroom...just to get people to see both sides and make intelligent decisions.
Have a good night. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:10 PM:
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:50 PM:
I didn't display anything for THIS paper. (Read what I wrote)
I never have a problem with intellectual debate. But even you must agree that I was getting "trashed" (HaHa) by some people for a picture that I did not intend to be published in the LNS. I did not invite this publicity. Because of this picture, I have been personally attacked by closed-minded people. I just felt the need to explain my perspective. Many of the comments were not in the realm of intellectual debate, and I am sure you recognize that. "
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:47 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:43 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:36 PM:
napa valley chef wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:31 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:12 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM:
napa valley chef wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:07 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:59 PM:
educated reader wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:38 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:24 PM:
XSRO wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:07 PM:
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:04 PM:
I am not implying that you have anything to be ashamed of, but I would be so furious if I were in your shoes. Your privacy was violated.
LNS, that is just so wrong on all levels. WTF. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:55 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:54 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:47 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:42 PM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:36 PM:
goldn1 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 3:34 PM:
Our kids are influenced every day of every year by a million different things, including family, friends, television, movies, books, and video games. Do any of you actually believe that a teacher that they have for 45 minutes a day for 10 months will have more influence than anything else they are exposed to? If that is the case I'd better go lock her up in cotton wool and not expose my child to anything in the real world because she's so easily led that she can't be trusted to be exposed to anything.
My understanding is this picture and article were included in the LNS without Ms. Ward's knowledge which very few of you are complaining about. I think this is a bigger issue.
Keep up the great work Ms. Ward, and thank you from one very grateful parent. "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:37 PM:
midtowner-It was implied that you equated me with "trash culture." Cogito made the hypocrisy reference.
Papercut-Thank you for the compliment, but I am middle aged! I know and love Lodi. I have lived here my entire life. My family has been in the area for generations. I just do my own thing and try not to let things bug me....it makes life easier. I was just concerned because it seemed that people were thinking I would encourage a student to get tattoos.
Cogito: Please read what I wrote to Whoa Nellie. I didn't "display" anything for this newspaper. Get over it. "
OTH wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:35 PM:
I can think of a couple of fuddy, duddy ol English teachers when I went to school but things were a lot different then. Times have changed in many ways. "
educated reader wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:32 PM:
I am personally opposed to tattoos for myself, but I wouldn't criticize anyone for making that choice for themselves. It is unfortunate that many criminal elements have adopted tattoos as a status symbol and now the average person relates tattoos with crime and "trash culture."
I applaud Mary for her innovation in gathering all her treasured memories in one place. Thank you for being a caring teacher and thank you to your son for serving our country.
Too bad that Cogito doesn't appreciate your intellectuality and "class." (Yes, that was an attempt at a sad pun!) Have a great Summer vacation, Mary...you deserve it! "
papercut wrote on Jun 25, 2008 2:00 PM:
papercut wrote on Jun 25, 2008 1:58 PM:
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 25, 2008 12:27 PM:
And that is the reason why my ink is covered. Today's youth simply have a different view than you and I, and I applaud it. Sure, it might be naive, but I applaud it.
I do, at my age (same as Mary), understand the view of others and how it could affect my business. Only a select few of my clients have seen my tattoo. "
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 25, 2008 12:11 PM:
Of course, I could be wrong, maybe she did know this article was going to be in the LNS. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 12:03 PM:
midtowner wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:43 AM:
I must retract the refernces to tattoos and trash culture. I did a Wikidpedia search and there is no reference to tattoos under trash culture.
I continue to stand by my comments on common sense. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:13 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:11 AM:
When we discussed his tats after he serves his term, he said that he will need to keep them covered to have a chance in the civilian world.
Interesting. Did you tell him that he was a representative of "trash culture"?
I'll tell you this, if two equally qualified candidates apply for a job and one has never been in the military while the other has a tattoo commemorating his or her service in the Marines on his arm, I am going to hire the Marine every time. To be honest, I think a lot of my customers would be happy to know that they are patronizing a business that supports our vets.
What better way to remind them of that fact than a proud Marine with a tattoo? "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:06 AM:
Leanord: you obviously have no business sense.
Hmmm... that must be why my business has grown at 30% each year for the last five years. "
midtowner wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:47 AM:
Leanord: you obviously have no business sense.
By the way, I totally am behind our troops fighting the war on terrorism in Iraq, Afganistan and soon, Iran. I have a cousin who is in the military and has more tattos than his age. When we discussed his tats after he serves his term, he said that he will need to keep them covered to have a chance in the civilian world. Beleive it or not some businesses require that no tattoos can be exposed during work hours. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:12 AM:
Leonard-Thanks for the comments about our military. My son is a Marine who has served 2 tours of duty in Iraq. He has tattoos. He is a brave young man who protects these people's right to insult him and his mom!!!! Ironic, huh?
Hmmmm... talking trash about a Marine's Mom might be a good way to get a couple of indelible marks of ones own.
Mary, please convey my thanks to your son for his service to our country. In these troubled times we truly are fortunate to have the Few and the Proud. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:07 AM:
If I'm looking for an employee and have to choose between two equal candidates and one sports ink, guess who I'm going to hire? Is this being small minded or business wise?
Assuming that the tattoo in question is not a swastika in the middle of the fore head or something similar, I would say you are being small minded. "
Contrapasso wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:54 AM:
midtowner-Why on earth would you say I lack common sense because I showed my tattoos for the school paper? I don't see the connection, sorry. I don't mind criticism on an objective level. I do mind being called trashy and hypocritical.
Cogito-Do you really think that insults and sarcasm are civilized intellectual debate? You realize that when you make personal attacks, you have instantly lost the debate, right?
Leonard-Thanks for the comments about our military. My son is a Marine who has served 2 tours of duty in Iraq. He has tattoos. He is a brave young man who protects these people's right to insult him and his mom!!!! Ironic, huh? "
midtowner wrote on Jun 25, 2008 9:46 AM:
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:48 AM:
That is a perfect way to discribe tatoos. Thanks, Leonard. "
napa valley chef wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:47 AM:
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:46 AM:
While I personally prefer a tatoo free body on me, I appreciate your right to have tatoos. "
sam wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:45 AM:
I disagree. Do you know how many women sport tatoos instead of lip liner and eyeliner? "
Whoa Nellie! wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:35 AM:
Honesty. with her tats the students probably relate to her better than the buttoned-up school marm of years past. And if the students can relate to you, they will LISTEN to your teachings.
BTW, Leonard, nice comeback to Midtowner. I hate to say it, because I love this town, but small town = small minds. This is not Mayberry people, it is 2008 "
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:18 AM:
kelsomom wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:16 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:14 AM:
gail1 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:13 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 8:05 AM:
I just don't associate it with class.
I don't see how it figures into the equation. I know some very distinguished people who have tattoos and I know some people who are utterly undistinguished who have them.
To me, it is like jewelry. All sorts of people wear it to better or worse effect. "
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:54 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:31 AM:
By the way, most of us who engage in critical thought still believe that tattoos represent trash culture.
Given the fact that many if not most people coming out of the military today have one or more tattoos, I really do have to question this statement.
Midtowner, are you really trying to suggest that our brave young heroes are trash? "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:29 AM:
By the way, most of us who engage in critical thought still believe that tattoos represent trash culture.
I am skeptical about this statement on a number of levels. "
Leonard wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:28 AM:
The woman has tattoos.
So what?
Half the people under 40 have tattoos of one sort or another. Most of them have had them for years and yet western civilization continues to function.
Live and let live, that's what I say. "
midtowner wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:12 AM:
Cogito wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:38 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.