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Lodi's Pledge of Allegiance fuss

Let's be calm and let the Joe Serna Jr. school community decide this

Updated: Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:43 AM PST

Let's be calm and let the Joe Serna Jr. school community decide this any a Lodian's blood is aboil about some parents at Joe Serna Charter School questioning the daily recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.

The emotion is understandable. Serna School has a high population of students whose parents recently arrived in the U.S. We all want them and their kids to become good Americans.

Plus, the pledge is becoming an issue to shout about in the church-state debate.

But let's strive to be calm.

We adults are role models and teachers, like it or not. Our example influences all young people, every one of whom is a new American. We should nurture in them pride in democracy and their country. We should not scream at them or at each other.

So, what's the debate all about?

Many Americans see the pledge's declaration that America is "one nation under God" as an important statement of principle, a recognition that even a powerful nation must humble itself before the Almighty. Many Serna parents agree.

Others have mouthed the words of the pledge without reflection, without taking them heart.

Not so for Michael Newdow, who sued the Elk Grove School District. He is part of a movement among atheists to actively resist the requirement by schools that their children say they accept the role of "God" in guiding our nation. They point to the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom as protecting a lack of religious conviction.

Apparently this thinking is shared by a number of parents of Serna School students.

So how do three groups of Americans — the "gotta put God before country" group, the "don't care" group and the "can't make me say it" group — resolve their differences?

We would recommend democracy.

It won't feel right if the answer comes from the Lodi Unified School District board or the administration of Serna School. This is not an issue that will succumb easily to top-down government.

The real stake holders are the parents who chose to send their children to Serna School and, of course, the students. The rest of us should step back.

It may behoove the administration to create the forum for resolution. Perhaps a town hall meeting to create understanding of each sides' feelings, to air the facts and the arguments.

Remember, keep it calm.

Out of this town hall meeting should come sensible options. We were surprised to learn this week that the California Education Code doesn't require school children to recite the pledge. Charter schools don't have to do anything like the pledge, and public schools are only required to do something "patriotic" every day: sing a patriotic song, observe a moment of silence or read a short U.S. history lesson, for example.

These options and others — including the full pledge, nothing and an opt-out rule — could be put on a ballot.

Who should vote?

Of course, the parents are the adults, the guardians of their children and nurturers of their values. They will do just fine.

But why not let the kids vote?

If learning by doing is the best way, why not have them listen to the debate and then decide. That will teach them the most important lesson any American can learn — practical democracy.

Pure leftist hypocrisy

Speaking of democracy in action, how about Berkeley's City Council attempt to expel a Marine Corps recruiting office?

Pure leftist hypocrisy, in our book.

After all, we're sure the council members of Berkeley rabidly support the right to choose.

Shouldn't Marine recruiters have the right to invite the young men and women of Berkeley to sign up?

Shouldn't those young people have the right to consider such an opportunity?

And if every city sought to jettison recruiters, where would we be?

We'd have a draft.

No choice.

Just go.

We hardly think that would please the leaders of the People's Republic of Berkeley, as the late scribe Herb Caen described this bluest-of-the-blue burgs by the bay.

Faced with a fiery backlash, and the threat of losing both state and federal dollars, the Berkeley council reversed course this week — proving that even in Berkeley, common sense may eventually prevail.

Lodi News-Sentinel

Reader Feedback

Lodian wrote on Feb 28, 2008 8:17 PM:

" BrokenL: Thanks, I appreciate that.

"Let him mumble in the corner."

That's funny! LOL "

BrokenL wrote on Feb 28, 2008 8:03 PM:

" Lodian, I really don't think anybody but the "disciple-of-the-blogs" thinks that you are the kind hearted underscore. Even if you were, it would not matter, neither of you spews hate, neither of you are self righteous,and neither of you constantly attack all others.Ignore the mighty knight and laugh at his dribble.I laugh at darn near ever thing he comes up with.It is pointless to respond to him. Let him mumble in the corner.It's all he's good at.Oooohhhh no, in the river with me. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 28, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Just an FYI... I know I don't have to tell you guys this, but in case it even matters to anyone, I only post as "Lodian". Just wanted to make that perfectly clear. It's sort of freaky watching RF spin his wheels on the topic of me and another blog handle. Really bizarre. Guess he's having his brand of fun. Me, I'll stick with the likes of the rest of you and your bright spirit, passion, kindness, respect, integrity, intelligence and HUMOR! Keep bringin' it! :-)
"

Lodian wrote on Feb 28, 2008 2:18 PM:

" OTH: That's the truth! "

OTH wrote on Feb 28, 2008 1:52 PM:

" Lodian the atheists like someone else will always be around. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 28, 2008 1:03 PM:

" Newdow has been fighting the "under God" issue for awhile now, so I don't think any big change will be happening soon at Joe Serna school. "

OTH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 4:22 PM:

" He's still around. I vaguely remember something about him filing another lawsuit several months ago. Something about IN GOD WE TRUST off of money. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 3:25 PM:

" OTH: I was just remembering how Newdow fought to get "under God" out of the pledge. Whatever happened to that guy? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 3:23 PM:

" Leonard: An edit button/option would be very dangerous as long as there are posters like RF. Can you imagine the havoc he would cause going around saying things and then changing them later? Yikes! I have seen blogs that offer a very short term option to edit a post... maybe like a minute or so. That might work well. "

OTH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:08 PM:

" Lodian what about Michael Newdow? "

sam wrote on Feb 27, 2008 2:01 PM:

" Thanks anyway Leonard.

Sorry you all for the bold italics. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:56 PM:

" Sam, unfortunately, no. You just have to move forward.

This is one of the reasons why I wish the LNS would install an edit function on these blogs. "

OTH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Lodian I do remember Michael Newdow. "

sam wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:26 PM:

" Thanks Lodian. Did I ruin everyone's blog? I remember this happening on another blog.

HEY LEONARD... can you fix my mess???? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:15 PM:

" sam: No problem. Leonard is better at it though. As Leonard said, just be careful to remember to add the ending to your comments or the whole board changes. Have fun! :-) "

sam wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:04 PM:

"


Did I ruin the whole blog.. or just my view?


This is fun.. you have created a monster.




"

sam wrote on Feb 27, 2008 1:00 PM:

"

Thanks Lodian

I hope thinks works


"

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:19 AM:

" OTH: Remember Michael Newdow?

http://www.undergodprocon.org/ "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 11:16 AM:

" OTH: I don't think anything is going to change just at the school level. This is a bigger isue than just choice in that one school. "

OTH wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Lodian have they decided anything on that pledge flap yet? Somebodys gonna be unhappy any way they go. It will be interesting to see what they come with. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:10 AM:

" So, how 'bout that Pledge of Allegiance fuss at Joe Serna? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:09 AM:

" *opposite :-) "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:07 AM:

" OTH: I'm not sure. He avoids me. Sorta like RF's ooposite. It's weird. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:04 AM:

" sam: Go to this website...

http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_font_style.asp "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:03 AM:

" Teletype text
Italic text
Bold text
Big text
Small text "

Lodian wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:02 AM:

" sam: Let's see if I can do this correctly. Let me know if it comes out okay. Here we go...

Teletype text
Italic text
Bold text
Big text
Small text "

Jack wrote on Feb 27, 2008 10:02 AM:

" OHHH, can we hear a "poor, misunderstood RF."

Nice whine. "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:43 PM:

" what i think is entirely funny, and it has been going on from day one i have been in here, is you people yelling and screaming (including whining to the LNS) that i am the bad guy in here...when you people talk trash about me every day, and i am supposed to say "nothing".

and.....you can say whatever YOU want in here, including about God, being off topic, etc., but I can't.

pretty funny to watch, as it all plays into MY hands "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:39 PM:

" brokenl; before you wimper away, just remember this....YOU came after me FIRST. i responded. you didn't like my response because my responses ALWAYS reflect my innate ability to seperate people from thier words quickly. you got caught trying to play your game, "quickly". now your scampering off blaiming me for your lack of backbone. if you dish it out, i am fine with that. just be willing to stick around for the "what's what" you-have-coming-to-you

call it "attacking" all you want. i begin by defending myself, KNOWING i AM being attacked. ....then-i-switch-on-the-lack-of-integrity-guns....i am very good at it...unlucky-for-you "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:29 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 3:58 PM:
.If any topic has God in it, one can be assured that "real facts" will be prowling and ready to pounce (roar and devour)) at a moments notice. No one gets out unscathed. Well, except Brian
for some reason").

yep. thats the promise i made to you and the others. i told you when you crossed the line with WY, that i would make sure that everytime you stepped out of line, i would comment on it.

cracks me up your "stalking" angle. you people talk about me ....EVERYDAY

brian-actually-does-know-God...i-only-come-after-the-phonies "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:22 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:27 AM:
Brian: It looks like you think that all of real facts off topic rantings are everyone elses fault. Isn't that the position of most abusive people? It's the fault of others because we made him do it, right"?).

what a joke. your off topic just as much as i am.

do you people even think before you post, that your about to embarrasss your own self so i don't have to do it for you?

at least make my job harder in here...gheesh "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:18 PM:

" brian re your 6:58am post:

me knows. i don't want to have to continually babysit these peoples integrity, but i have to.

i have to do it day in and day out to demonstrate thier inability to silence my voice in here, and to demonstrate thier hypocriticalness.

it's dead straight boring - but necessary.

they only thing i don't like about it, and why it's boring, no ones given me a real run for my money in here. they hit and run. everytime. it's a joke

they are not even good at what they do (or "attempt" to do) "

brokenl wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:39 PM:

" " RF, if I have crossed your imaginary line, then I apologize. The only thing you do is attack.Your a bully behind a computer screen.Good for you.You are a sad and pathetic person and I'm done with you.I will not respond to you again.I will still read your nonsense but remember this, everytime you type your pathetic dribble in, I will be grinning and shaking my head because I truly believe that you are nuts.You are gods self elected "disciple-of-the-blog", and I think you have chosen wisely mighty knight.Get help. Peace. "
"

OTH wrote on Feb 26, 2008 8:34 PM:

" Lodian did Brian have a tantrum already? "

sam wrote on Feb 26, 2008 4:14 PM:

" Leonard, I do not get what you mean. Can you (or Lodian) explain it better? Mark the text with html in the blog window? or are you typing this in Word first? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 3:58 PM:

" nylodian: I believe that Brian knows very well what real facts has said and done. He also supports real facts, even to the point of supporting real facts as the victim here on these boards.

Acting the victim, after abusing others, is the typical attitude of an abuser. It doesn't matter whether it's abuse in real life or cyber-bullying/stalking, it's the same sickness.

If any topic has God in it, one can be assured that "real facts" will be prowling and ready to pounce (roar and devour)) at a moments notice. No one gets out unscathed. Well, except Brian
for some reason.
"

nylodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 3:23 PM:

" Brian: welcome back, BUT are you serious?!!! Have you read ALL the posts from the beginning? "

lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 11:12 AM:

" Remember Michael Newdow from Elk Grove...

http://www.undergodprocon.org/ "

lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:44 AM:

" Italic test
Bold test

"

Leonard wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:22 AM:

" Sam: You have to mark the text with HTML. You have to be careful because if you forget to close the mark up the whole page goes italic. "

sam wrote on Feb 26, 2008 10:15 AM:

" Leonard, how do you get ITALICS into your blogs? Is it your browser that always you to do that? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:52 AM:

" Brian: Is this really what you would tell your daughter? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Leonard: Isn't that the truth. Geez... isn't that what most criminals think?

Well, if she didn't want me to "(insert abusive behavior/act)" she wouldn't have shown up at the party. It's all her fault.

Or maybe "The devil made me do it"

"

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:47 AM:

" ...if that! :-) "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:47 AM:

" OTH: I give it 24 hours. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:45 AM:

" Brian: Being "off topic" once or twice a day, or even once, twice (OR MORE!) on a board, is a far cry from posting off topic personal attacks for weeks on end! That is unstable irrational behavior. Half, or more, of the board would be filled with real facts attacks, but you know this already. You seem to advocate such behavior. Why? And the interesting thing is, after all the creepy crap that real facts dishes out to everyone else, you back him on it....yet you cry foul when anyone even gets remotely flip with you. Why is that, Brian? Please explain. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:41 AM:

" Chuckle...Lodian made RF stalk her.

Yes! Let's blame the victim!

Its funny how conservatives will adopt the worst aspects of "political correctness" when it serves their own cause. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:27 AM:

" Brian: It looks like you think that all of real facts off topic rantings are everyone elses fault. Isn't that the position of most abusive people? It's the fault of others because we made him do it, right? "

OTH wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Welcome back Brian. Do we need to start pool on how long before you have your first tantrum? LOL "

Leonard wrote on Feb 26, 2008 9:11 AM:

" Welcome back Brian! "

Brian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 6:58 AM:

" Real Facts, Haven't you noticed how the same people get you off on a tangent? Then they accuse you of being off topic.
It makes for good entertainment. However, they aren't the least bit interested in debating the given topic.
If they were, you wouldn't be under their microscope.
"

Brian wrote on Feb 26, 2008 6:50 AM:

" Real Facts, You would do yourself a big favor by not trying to make sense out of the "Senseless People" who continually distort everything you say.
They aren't interested in having a civil dialogue with you. Talking to them is like talking to the wall. It's always the same people who you are at odds with. Or is it the same person with multiple handles? The world may never know. "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 12:34 AM:

" OTH: i guess you like the embarrassment of me making you look like a hypocrite? fine with me

there are (6) posts past your post to me, that didn't have ANYTHING to do with the topic.

lets see your sterling integrity in full view, by busting them for doing it.

if you have enough integrity in life to do that, VS. my accurate assessment of you playing "people" over truth, THEN i will heed your advice.

but, you don't have integrity in these matters, so you won't.

let's see you tell sam, lodian and brokenl the same thing.

you won't, because i am right about...you "

real facts wrote on Feb 26, 2008 12:27 AM:

" brokenl: i guess you didn't catch my drift the last few go arounds about my abilities to demonstrate the level of hypocrisy doled out by you people.

maybe i need to spell it out a "lil" more clearly?

cut the "stalking" act, your making yourself look foolish. in a fair assessment of whats going on in here, YOU PEOPLE are stalking me. i leave for hours and i come back and have to answer all YOUR garbage. you guys do it to me, just-as-much-as-i-do-it-to-you

"if" i was stalking someone, i would be in EVERY blog THEY are in.....i-am-ONLY-in-blogs-having-to-do-with-God.....your"gig"-is-up "

Lodian wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:27 PM:

"
Nice to see you all on this board. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:27 PM:

"
Thanks, BrokenL.

"

sam wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:26 PM:

" BrokenL, again... thanks for the info. "

BrokenL wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:29 PM:

" Research done on children, but they apply here "

BrokenL wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:28 PM:

" Another key factor as to why cyber bullying can be so severe: cyber bullies can take advantage of the anonymity that the online interaction often offers. This makes them more confident and less concerned with the consequences
http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/2007/07/03/cyber_bullying_its_not_about_sticks_and_stones.html


"

BrokenL wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:28 PM:

" Bullying involves the physical or verbal harassment of others. Cyber bullying, also known as Internet bullying, is intentional harassment that occurs through electronic media. Both involve power and control. According to Bill Belsey, an education consultant and bullying expert from Alberta, cyber bullying is worse than schoolyard bullying because it cannot be escaped. Cyber bullying does not end when the child arrives home. Because kids spend so much time on cell phones and the Internet, they are easy targets for cyber-abuse. Bullying can continue even in the privacy of a teen’s bedroom, with messages suddenly appearing on the computer or cell phone screen. It can happen at anytime and can be so intrusive that a child or teen feels trapped and helpless. Cyber bullies are like stalkers who don't let up. Glenn Stutzky, a social work professor at Michigan State University and one of the key researchers in cyber bullying, says that "Bullying, when it comes into our lives, comes in a way that takes over our lives... It's only a matter of time before it comes again. It hurts because your life is no longer your own. Someone else is in control "

OTH wrote on Feb 25, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Real facts can you concentrate for just a minute and read the blog topic at the top of the article? Now that you've read it can you make a comment about the TOPIC? "

Lodian wrote on Feb 25, 2008 7:54 AM:

" Wow! A bunch of yesterday's posts were deleted! "

real facts wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:34 AM:

" WY: another comment on your Feb 24, 2008 2:58 AM post,

you never abandon hurting struggling people, but also you always defend against attacks upon our Lords word and authority.

it is very much our "job description" as believers in Jesus Christ to not allow for sin to prevail, or to allow IT to become whats definiable as far as morality.

we must above all, tell the truth at every turn. if we don't, we are not representing God accuretly. "

real facts wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:29 AM:

" WY: on your Feb 24, 2008 2:58 AM post,
God can only judge a person by two things (1)what God has revealed about himself to that person, and IF that person has accepted or rejected that knowledge. (2)if that person has NEVER had access to knowledge about God (i.e. his word), then God judges that person by thier heart, "if" that persons heart is TOWARD God, or against God.

God is 100% fair about that. and we should be too. if a persons heart is toward God, work WITH them no matter what "

real facts wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:20 AM:

" lodian;
your 11:25am post is pure deflection.

the answer to that is NO. i intend on riding this one all the way to the bank. you can "try" your deflection from it all you want, with anybody else.

afterall, THEY buy it.

whats sad is after i bust you for it, they wiil STILL support you, because they pick people over truth.

i don't "

real facts wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:16 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:25 AM:
All this garbage about who is posting with what handle etc is meaningless").

in any other case it would be. but not with you.

you being someone "else" proves you lie about who you are, and i intend on proving it, to demonstrate you really are what i said you are...an "ain't".

if i prove that you are, your game in here becomes front and center.

if i am wrong about it, you get your wish as i will leave, and never come back.

oh it's important allright "

brokenl wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Love to see that happen. Not holdin' my breath thou "

Lodian wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:25 AM:

" All this garbage about who is posting with what handle etc is meaningless. We all have to post with an original handle, so at least there are no more posters in here with "exactly" the same name. With that said, it's time to move on from this trivial "handle" issue and think of what is really important...especially on some of these serious boards. Take WY for example, as she was expressing concern for her brother (her gay brother). Can we agree that he is certainly more important than hearing about blog handles? Some of us will continue to prioritize in what is really important, others will continue to be trivial and mean. What can ya do? It's not in our hands to control abusers here, but the LNS could take care of it....if they wanted to. Movin' on.... "

Lodian wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:17 AM:

" WY: Your posts (306/311/316) are absolutely right on. Listen to your heart. God is telling you what is right. Listen to Him. Your brother needs you. He is loved by God just as much as anyone else. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:14 AM:

"
to: real_facts (under_score guy):

Thanks so much for all your positive posts. Also, thanks for stating that I am not posting as "real_facts". It just doesn't matter to "real facts" though as he will persist on these trivial matters. It doesn't matter what you say or how you say it the guy will always call you a liar. No one deserves to be treated like that here. Unfortunately, this guy RF is allowed to post his garbage multiple times and on every board continuing to stay off topic for weeks at a time.

Take care. :-) "

real_facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:03 AM:

" WY, beautiful 3:11 post. God loves you and your brother. "

real_facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 7:58 AM:

" she is also behind the "real_facts" persona.

That is a false statement. I am not Lodian. I do not know Lodian. I forgive you. "

WY wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:16 AM:

" I've gotten my purpose from this blog. I know what I need to do. I want to thank you. All of you "

WY wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:11 AM:

" It takes a very strong mature person to rope in a huge sinner. I takes a weak small person to lash out at the dirt that is on that bleeding soul. I for one, will NEVER walk away from my brother because he is gay. I'm going to reach to him in love an always tell him GOD LOVE YOU! because that's not a lie. And when he dies from the out come of his sin i will still whiper in his ear GOD LOVES YOU.... So this is the last thing he hears from this earth. "

WY wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:06 AM:

" I refuse to believe that God loves me more than my brother. I'm not worthy, an I don't beleive my Lord works that way. They can repent at the last minute and then die and still be saved. I beleive in His mercy and grace. If He knows our heart then He cries, sobs for these children and it's up to US to bring them. bring them broken and bleeding. No one left behind, just like the Miltary. I have to reach with a gentle loving hand.
"

WY wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:00 AM:

" Sorry I can't sleep, doesn't mean I can type "

WY wrote on Feb 24, 2008 2:58 AM:

" I read Romans1:24-32. I still think that through the love of Jesus Christ that these sould can be saved, all the way up to their last breath on earth.

realfact...What if there is NO knowlrdge of anything Biblical? What it a human suffered all his live long day and knew nothing but to eat and drink of this earth? Or a victum with hate and pain in their heart . Do i walk away? Do I lash out and hate them, or when they speak of their knowledge of life, do i strike at them because their dirty? "

real facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:05 AM:

" COGITO:

let it be known that "lee"...is really lodian. lodian has been lying about it, for several blogs after i busted her about it.

the fruitcake still brings "lee" out to play once in a awhile. it's her "tough man" persona

she is also behind the "real_facts" persona.

now maybe you know why i have to "demonstrate" who she "isn't" in here so much... "

real facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:01 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:52 AM:
He says God is telling him to go off on people on a blog? So he can read and recite Bible passages. Okay, then what? He crushes people").

even if i never "heard" from God in my entire life, Gods word is still explicit in it's demands of a believer to defend Gods authority, by fending off "un-truths" about God at every-turn.

if YOU are "crushed under" the weight of that truth, thats on you...not me.

i just tell the truth. you fall on your own sword after i do "

real facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 12:54 AM:

" ("Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:49 PM:
The bad part RF is that you are someone I usually DO agree with, especially on religious matters").

whats "bad" about picking the truth in life? both about biblical truth, and about people? you should

"if" i do tell the truth about both, you should not be embarrassed about it, you should without exception, pick truth over people and agenda.

"if" i don't, you can excuse yourself from it.

p.s., i am not sure if your apology was sincere, or "veiled" as something else "

real facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 12:48 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:52 AM:
He's a coward").

im a "coward" huh? since i don't back down from anyone...

at least i don't have gender issues (like you do), and pull a new persona out of the sky to try and intimidate people because you couldn't handle your business.

give it up lodian. just get the sex change and get it over with if your are still going to post-as-"lee".

your now confusing cogito because "they" thought you were a she. now cogito doesn't know WHO you are ......obviously you don't either.

(laughing) "

real facts wrote on Feb 24, 2008 12:42 AM:

" ("WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:38 PM:
Lee.... I quit a chuch because the Pastor didn't believe that I seen, felt, or hear the Holy Spirit").

good. you should have. but don't be afraid of going somewhere else. now you know the value of not handing your "mind" (and realtionship with Christ) over to another.

remember, not everyone...."is that guy" "

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:50 PM:

" I need to type better huh? "

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:49 PM:

" *I can't type worth a poo today sorry
"

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:49 PM:

" I got news for you... I'm cray too then. I was humbled to my knees. In in my pain I heard "I am with you" as clear as you would talk to someone. When I told my pasterd he just about laughed in my face. I trusted him and the SOB doen't believe in the guy he talks about on Sunday. So I'm frick crazt too. I hear HIM , I feel HIM and I speek to HIM. I'm a Jesus Freak! "

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:40 PM:

" Coward he could be...Because of what is done with the knowledge he is given.
"

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:38 PM:

" Lee.... I quit a chuch because the Pastor didn't believe that I seen, felt, or hear the Holy Spirit. How is it that you can believe something could happen centuries ago but can't happen now? It bothers me that people don't think the Lord God can move in our time. Because someone hears God, crazy he's not. Blessed he is! "

WY wrote on Feb 23, 2008 5:32 PM:

" No tokillya! I'll take the beach though! "

Lee wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:52 AM:

" Cogito: Come on man the guy is a nut job. He says God is telling him to go off on people on a blog? Seriously the guy is a mental case. So he can read and recite Bible passages. Okay, then what? He crushes people. He's a coward. "

Lee wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:45 AM:

" Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:49 PM:

" The bad part RF is that you are someone I usually DO agree with, especially on religious matters. "

REALLY?
"

Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:50 PM:

" The bad part RF is that you are someone I usually DO agree with, especially on religious matters. "

Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 11:43 PM:

" RF, I truly owe you an apology. I got you confused with someone else. I also got lodian confused with voter. While I like Lodians blogs, Voter truly brings it here, and is a force to be reckoned with. All these names are hard to keep straight after a week on the beach and a gallon of Tequila. So once again I apologize to Real Facts, I was wrong and stand corrected. "

Lodian wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:11 PM:

" Wow... that was actually an on topic post. How refreshing. :-) "

Lodian wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:11 PM:

" T & C: I don't think the issue was if they were going to say the pledge, just the "under God" part of the pledge. Right? "

T & C wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:01 PM:

" I would like to point out that a CERTAIN percentage of those children are NOT NEW CITIZENS! Their parents are here illegally, and they are in a public school...getting their education. I feel the PLEDGE should be said! In my opinion, any child who refuses to give the pledge sets a POOR EXAMPLE for the class and teacher of their interest and desire to become a american citizen! I respect everyone's opinion just as I am entitled to my opinion. "

real_facts wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Sensible Sage, no need to apologize.

Love is an act of endless forgiveness.
"

Sensible Sage wrote on Feb 22, 2008 3:43 PM:

" This thread makes me feel compelled to apologize for something.
"

real_facts wrote on Feb 22, 2008 2:24 PM:

" Speak tenderly to them. Let there be kindness in your face, in your eyes, in your smile, in the warmth of your greeting. Always have a cheerful smile. Don't only give your care, but give your heart as well. "

real facts wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:02 PM:

" ("Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:31 AM:
Your game is one-dimensional, predictable, and mostly boring").

bummer that it IS predictable.

thats not a good thing, and the reason it's not, is that i have to KEEP busting peoples chops for their integrity failures in here. to be "predicting" thats going to happen day and day out - thats a bad thing. it's also a true barometer of whats going on in here.

it's only "one dimensional" if your playing for the wrong team. "

real facts wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:57 PM:

" cogito: you need to be able to take, what you dish out.

awhile back in a different blog, you took a swipe at me. it wasn't from a "civilised_discussion" angle. it was a swipe. as you can tell by now, i take nothing off of anybody, and give them a little "whats what" in return.

so your posturing back then, set the tone. what i did is merely called you on the fact that you straight across the board give "props" to someome who is less than stellar, integrity wise, in the religion blog.

so don't act the victim cogito. "

OTH wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:34 AM:

" WY that's okay, an old broad like you is probably due for a new gasket anyway. You know every so often we got to have them replaced. LOL "

OTH wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Nylodian thanks. That's funny. "

OTH wrote on Feb 22, 2008 8:31 AM:

" Please disregard my post of 10:03 p.m. on 2/21. It was made in error. My apologies. "

WY wrote on Feb 22, 2008 7:46 AM:

" I don't know who UNder_score is but I like the cape. Gasket...? ok. That full moon is work'n my mood. Then add the loony eclipse. Well, there you have it. How do you spell eclips? You know when the shadow goes infront of the moon. It seems so easy... eclipse,no. eclips.... no! crud! (I truely suck at spelling!) "

nylodian wrote on Feb 22, 2008 5:46 AM:

" OTH: in reference to your post " real_facts I take your apology with tongue in cheek. I'm from Missouri the show me state. It remains to be seen if you can hold it together or not. In the mean time Peace Be With You."

Do you realize real_facts, (notice the underscore), is a different blogger than the other one? It took me a while to catch on, too. I think WY blew a gasket over it (Just kidding, WY!) :) "

Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:37 AM:

" I reserve the right to change my point of view of any blogger at any time. That includes not only you RF, but Lodian too.I will always give props where props are due. Rest assured, the Dude abides. "

Cogito wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:31 AM:

" So you want to start off by insulting me RF? Then you wonder why I consider others more civil than you? Mutual respect amongst adversaries is earned by appreciating your opponents game. Your game is one-dimensional, predictable, and mostly boring. I can see why some people here are blocking you. Your probably the odds on favorite for the next 90 day suspension, which is cool with me. Then I won't have to scroll past your inane, insipid ramblings. Wait a minute, did I just get sucked in by your vacuous presence? Better check myself. Leonard, I need the instructions! "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:26 PM:

" ("real_facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:59 PM:" Billy,Congratulations on your successes").

lodian, you keep claiming your a Christian, shouldn't you be concerned with billy's soul?

successes in life are great, but the measure of a man is how he is obedient to God.

you should have quoted him this;
"for what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul"

you could reach the pinnacle in life, (ala bill gates who claims there is no need for God), but lose it all in eternity because you pushed God away.

he won't listen to me...so YOU tell-him "

Lodian wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:25 PM:

" http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2008/02/18/opinion/letters/ltr_welsbacher_080218.txt "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:18 PM:

" ("Cogito wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:14 PM:
Hey RF, my respect for Lodian comes from MY exchanges. Lodian is as good at backing up claims as anyone I've ever encountered here. My respect for Lodian is earned. Maybe you will get a chance to earn it too").

i watch you in other blogs cogito, so maybe i will dismiss your high five of lodian as "ignorance"....at least in your non-observation of "her" in these blogs. because in these blogs, she lies without conscience, and IF you support that, by affliation, your no better than her. IF you don't condemn-lying....that-means-you-approve-of-it "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:10 PM:

" ("Billy Rubin wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:47 PM:If you actually thought about it, you'd know who I am. You have seen me, there is positively no doubt").

tell me your not that creepy dude in the ice cream truck that cruises our neighborhood.

billy, YOU don't even know who you are, how am "I" supposed to recognize you? "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:05 PM:

" OTH: you will get my "apology" from me personally, instead of your partner in crime lodian, when i say something about you that isn't true.

until then, i own my words

p.s. i thought you couldn't read what i post? (laughing) "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:03 PM:

" ("OTH wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:07 PM:
" Real Fact for bring "so drop dead gorgeous" you are one ugly dude").

you have me confused with billy rubin.
he's the one thats "drop dead gorgeous" on the outside (according to HIS assesment), but has an evil ugly heart on the inside. his priorities will get him more dates with men, but his ugly heart will cause him to miss God.

me, i am an average looking guy with a stellar heart. remember OTH, God looks on the heart of a man, and if he see's obedience, God see's "stellar" "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:55 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:58 PM:
Am I seriously being accused of being the person behind your name "real_facts"?

"real_facts" accused YOU of being him?
when did THAT happen?

laughing.

your so bad at this, you can't even keep your lies/stories straight

your "fruitcake" is withering in the sun
"

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:52 PM:

" lodian: lets accrue how many lying "points" you collected just in ONE day....
(1)if you can't read my posts, how did you know i was "accusing you"?
(2) lied to WY about lying about me being brian, by "trying" to cover it up
(3) lied about not being real_facts
(4) or "lee" in the same sentence

gee, four in one day. good job. you are right on track with who you claimed to be.

don't fret though....people in here still support you, even though you lie without conscience. obviously they don't possess one either "

Lodian wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:01 PM:

" Cogito:

Hey, thanks! You're coooool!

"

Lodian wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:59 PM:

" real_facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:17 PM: "Lodian, I know you are not me. There is no need for you to address that question."

Am I seriously being accused of being the person behind your name "real_facts"? I only post as Lodian, so that can't be the truth. I sure like your syle though. Keep it up! :-)
"

OTH wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:24 PM:

" real_facts I take your apology with tongue in cheek. I'm from Missouri the show me state. It remains to be seen if you can hold it together or not. In the mean time Peace Be With You. "

Cogito wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:15 PM:

" Hey RF, my respect for Lodian comes from MY exchanges. Lodian is as good at backing up claims as anyone I've ever encountered here. My respect for Lodian is earned. Maybe you will get a chance to earn it too. "

OTH wrote on Feb 21, 2008 8:07 PM:

" Real Fact for bring "so drop dead gorgeous" you are one ugly dude. But then they say beauty is only skin deep and in your case it shows. Maybe you would rather post your picture? "

real_facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 7:16 PM:

" Thank you nylodian. I believe I owe you an apology also. I am very sorry for my cruel words and hope you accept my heartfelt apology. You are a wonderful, loving person. Your blogs are a testament to who you are. "

nylodian wrote on Feb 21, 2008 7:11 PM:

" real_facts: thanks for bringing a much needed balance to these blogs; a positive comment for each negative one. "

real_facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:59 PM:

" Billy, you are not ugly. You are a child of God and a treasure of the universe. You are loved. Congratulations on your successes. "

Billy Rubin wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:47 PM:

" My ugliness, Reverend? Ugliness?

I'll have you know I'm positively DROP-DEAD GORGEOUS. A year and a half out of Lodi High I moved to NYC for 9 years working as a male model before I moved back to California (LA) for TV work.

I only moved back home to Lodi a couple of years ago. Good thing I made enough money to retire, huh Reverend?

If you actually thought about it, you'd know who I am. You have seen me, there is positively no doubt. "

real facts wrote on Feb 21, 2008 6:40 PM:

" ("girard74 wrote on Feb 20, 2008 1:47 PM:I yesterday the Lodi News-Sentinel took the extraordinary step of deleting posts from more than a 24-hour period. I was greatly disturbed by that. If you didn't get the message from that action, then there is something very wrong with you").

what did that have to do with me as per your rediculous implication? guess what girard, i am still standing while all of you were high fiving yourselves thinking it was me they booted

the LNS contacted me for the 1st time today.....to notify me that i am posting the same posts-more-than-once.......your inSINuations-are-nasty "