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Obama, Clinton: Neither gets it right on immigration
Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:52 AM PST
Out of all the millions of words written and spoken about the dozens of presidential candidates, only these made by a CNN analyst after one of the gazillion debates is spot on: "What strikes me is the lack of sincere enthusiasm for any of the candidates."
After the Iowa caucus and the New Hampshire primary what remains clear is the candidates are not trustworthy.
Whichever leading candidate from whatever party tells you that he or she is an agent of change and defender of the American worker and "working families," you're being lied to.
The recently brought-down-to-earth Barack Obama likes to say, "I'm asking you not just to believe in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours."
In the eyes of this cynical, half-baked Democrat, nothing could be further from the truth.
Only the most politically naïve could buy into Obama's comment or similar ones made by Hillary Clinton.
The question that voters must ask is what specifically do Obama and Clinton propose to change.
On two crucial issues, immigration and jobs, both are on the side of more and fewer (for Americans) respectively.
Despite overwhelming evidence that Americans want to end illegal immigration, reduce legal immigration and deny amnesty for those in the country illegally, Obama and Clinton are in favor of all three.
In a not-so-amazing coincidence during 2007, Obama and Clinton each cast seven pro-amnesty votes, supported the Dream Act and endorsed Sen. Dianne Feinstein's proposal that a new "orange card" be created that would allow certain aliens to qualify for permanent residency.
In 2006, on six separate Senate floor actions on amendments or bills that would create amnesty, Obama and Clinton voted "yea" for each and every one.
When it comes to importing more foreign workers, Obama and Clinton cast 11 votes during 2006-07 for measures that either would have created more permanent and temporary work visas and against a requirement that the Department of Homeland Security verify that a job shortage exists before a visa could be issued.
In January, Obama's office issued a press release that included this statement in reference to non-immigrant work visas: "We live in a global economy, and I do believe that America will be strengthened if we welcome more immigrants who have mastered science and engineering."
And Clinton has repeatedly called for an expanded H-1B program for more foreign-born workers saying last summer at the Indian Institute of Technology Conference in Santa Clara that they "contribute greatly to our U.S. technology development."
Their protestations aside, as far as jobs and the American worker are concerned, Obama and Clinton are the avowed enemy.
Despite their abysmal records on the two pressing issues of immigration and jobs that are so high on American voter's minds, either could be the next president.
After eight years of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and two years of the worst Democratic leadership in Congressional history compliments of Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi, America is fed up.
But disgust with the political status quo doesn't necessarily translate into a win for Obama or Clinton.
Obama's vulnerability was exposed in New Hampshire. And Clinton has been around so long that we've watched her daughter Chelsea grow up from a grade school kid in knickers to being just shy of 30.
What Clinton and Obama should be most fearful of is not a tired Republican retread like John McCain but instead a former Republican (and once a Democrat), New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
The current Independent's candidacy grows more certain the muddier the primary waters become.
Bloomberg, a multi-billionaire, is quietly putting together his staff and waiting in the wings for the right moment to jump into the fray.
All Bloomberg has to do is write himself a $1 billion check and he's off to the races.
Although he is a registered Democrat, Guzzardi's only vote for his party in nearly two decades was for himself in 2003 when he ran for California governor in the Recall Gray Davis election. Contact him at guzzjoe@yahoo.com.
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danielh wrote on Jan 20, 2008 1:17 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 19, 2008 6:50 PM:
Leonard, Your interpretation of an equal opportunity employer is corrupt. Yes, this is not a R or a D isssue. There are elitest in both parties. However, reminding illegals that they can only go so far economicly doesn't give them much of an incentive to become a U.S citizen.
Brian, we need to stop illegal immigration.
We need to replace it with a temporary guest worker program to move the economy through a transition period to the point where those jobs that American's want and can perform efficiently are performed by Americans while those jobs that Americans don't want and can't perform efficiently are handled through mechanization.
End of story. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 19, 2008 6:45 PM:
This isn't about politics and it isn't about elitism, it is about cold, hard economic facts. "
ajaho wrote on Jan 19, 2008 1:43 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 19, 2008 7:47 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 19, 2008 7:34 AM:
" Brian: The use of high paid American workers to do manual field labor simply is not a viable economic option, either for the consumer or the farmer. I have several cousins who have farms here in the Valley and they tell me that they would have to sell within 5 years (or sooner) if they had to pay the going wage to Americans to trim their vines and pick their crops.
Leonard, This elitest attitude is what the problem is. You have summed up that all Americans want higher wages than illegals and no matter the what illegals do they will never be able to climb that economic ladder. It seems to me you paint a grim picture for the illegals. Based on this, I don't see any reason why the illegals would want to assimilate. "
jackmax wrote on Jan 18, 2008 7:02 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 18, 2008 10:06 AM:
Leonard, since Romney won Michigan because they know he has a good plan for the ailing auto industry.
Chuckle... you do understand that he was only running against other Republicans, don't you?
Should we assume (using your logic) from Romney's sound victory over the rest of the Republican candidates that Giuliani, Thompson, McCain and Huckabee have no clue as to how we can revive American industry? Is that the lesson of the Michigan primary?
:)
In any case, I thought you were a Giuliani Man? Have you given up after just a couple of 6th place losses? So little faith....
Romney has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the national election. The GOP nominee will either be McCain or Huckabee. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 18, 2008 10:00 AM:
That is not a Democrat or a Republican issue, it is simply a fact. "
OTH wrote on Jan 18, 2008 9:00 AM:
Audi 5000 wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:57 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 18, 2008 8:27 AM:
Do you cringe every time you get your paycheck and wish you payed more taxes?
Your wish will be granted if Hillary or Obama gets elected. "
Brian wrote on Jan 18, 2008 7:39 AM:
to offer up you discontent for the next Republican President. I can't say you're inconsistent in towing your party line even when they're way off base.
It's only just recently I sense you're coming around that YOUR party is betraying you. "
Brian wrote on Jan 18, 2008 7:26 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 18, 2008 7:20 AM:
Girard74 summed you up well when he wrote: If I didn't know better (which I do), it seems that all you want to do with the author of each letter to the editor is to pick a fight only for the sake of fighting - what a waste of time and energy. You are, however, quite entertaining. "
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 8:05 PM:
Bush may not be taxing (the rich) but he is spending like it is going out of style. All of this (up to last year) with a Republican Congress rubber stamping his every spending binge.
As I said before Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:53 PM:
:) "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:51 PM:
I know you libs want more control of our money so we have less control of our lives.
And you know this how? Because you read my mind?
Or perhaps Debbie Schlussel, unindicted co conspirator extrordinaire "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:49 PM:
Leonard, so tax cuts that always stimulate the economy because people have more money in their pockets and they can therefore invest in their business etc.
hasn't worked this time?
Since I didn't even mention tax cuts, this must be a rhetorical question. Would you care to answer it? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:47 PM:
Leonard, It's a myth that prices will go through the roof.
Its a fact of economics that when the cost of production increases, the cost of goods will increase, barring subsidy.
In the long run, much of the lost labor may be made up through mechanization but buying machines costs lots of money and those costs will be passed along to the consumers as well.
"
Brian wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:24 PM:
I know you libs want more control of our money so we have less control of our lives. If that's the case then you should move to Europe where they have a 50 percent tax rate to fund all the government programs. This is Hillary's and Obama's vision for America. Suit yourself Leonard. "
Brian wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:19 PM:
hasn't worked this time? Rudi proved a tax cut could work in New York. It's bacis economics that if you let people keep more of their money it's better for them and the nation as a whole. "
Brian wrote on Jan 17, 2008 7:10 PM:
Leonard, It's a myth that prices will go through the roof. Your tax the people to death attitude so we have the money in the coffers to fund all the social programs for illegals is insane.
Lower taxes and more resonable social programs that aren't sucked up by the illegals would be a start. The old addage that Americans won't take those jobs is because of our current culture.
This attitude must change. And it's no myth that Americans are becoming ever so uncomfortable in many industries
where it is commonplace to have a Mexican as manger and he or she only hires his own. I'm very aware of this phenomenon here in the housing industry
where the construction foreman is Mexican and all his crew are Mexican.
Try and communicate with them if you don't speak Spanish. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 5:56 PM:
So this recession we may be entering has nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts.
Well, that certainly is a bold proclamation. In economics, everything is interconnected at some level.
That said, I think this recession mainly has to do with three things.
1) The irresponsible practices at the Fed which, along with financial deregulation, spawned the current housing crisis.
2) The drastic devaluation of American currency.
3) The unremitting (and unprecedented)series of record deficits that have been run up by an Administration that appears to be completely unaware of the concept of fiscal responsibility.
Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 5:50 PM:
So what's you position on immigration
Its a tough issue without any easy answers. The first thing we need to do is secure our borders.
After that, I think we need to do what we can to crack down on employers. At the same time, we also need to look towards long term solutions. One thing that the government could do is to invest in ways to mechanize at least some of the agricultural jobs that are currently done by illegals while, at the same time, making that mechanization affordable for small farmers.
In the end, however, the simple economics of agriculture is going to mean that we will have to have some sort of legal guest worker program to fill jobs that simply cannot be filled by Americans without driving the cost of food through the stratosphere.
If we cut off the flow of foreign labor without taking these steps, the average American will lose their ability to feed their families while the few remaining small farmers will lose their land as production goes South to lands with affordable labor. "
Brian wrote on Jan 17, 2008 4:27 PM:
And since Democrats want higher taxes and bigger government, and we know that tends to have a negative affect on the economy. What's your proposal? "
Brian wrote on Jan 17, 2008 4:23 PM:
other than you justify their presence because of all the money that goes into public coffer? How can yuou justify the tax burden we all bear because of them? The way I see it, you're pessimistic that the nation could survive without illegals. That said, you're a hipocrite when it comes to border security. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 11:19 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 11:06 AM:
As a American, And i mean a legal American, it makes me so mad, I'm tired of lies, lies that thay say, We have such a huge problem with illegals in California and other states, if thay would go back, unemployement would not be needed. Until we get someone in office, that will stand up for us, we are subject to this day end & day out, we need to stad up and say STOP, start posting Employers who hire illegals, start buying from them. Americans stand up for your rights, you will wake up one morning and you will not have any rights. only if you are not from this county will have right, now that would really suck. Thay will not be receiving my vote
You better hope that they don't make the ability to write correct English a prerequisite of citizenship, my friend, or you may find yourself looking for a new country. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 17, 2008 11:00 AM:
You want it? "
4586 wrote on Jan 17, 2008 10:22 AM:
T & C wrote on Jan 16, 2008 5:25 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 4:42 PM:
This issue here are of millions of people, "Regardless of their color" who refuse year after year to obtain legal status, who make countless babies and do not "work"!
Well T&C, I will just have to take you at your word and, disregarding the ample evidence to the contrary that you have provided on these blogs, assume that you are concerned about illegal immigrants of all shades and colors.
I agree. Illegal immigration is a serious problem. "
T & C wrote on Jan 16, 2008 3:24 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:33 PM:
Secondly, I largely agree with your thoughts on the subject of race. Race is, at best, a construct. Just look at Africa. What does a man from Algeria have in common with a man from Mozambique? Not a whole lot other than an abstract term of "African" that has been applied to them.
That said, race can indeed matter when an others decide to treat a group of people with unifying characteristics (imagined or otherwise) as a single class based on their perceived "race". This happened here in America when Blacks were systematically deprived of their human rights under Jim Crow.
"
Gator wrote on Jan 16, 2008 1:26 PM:
on the subject on Immigration and
becoming a citizen was good then and
even better now.If it's to much work
to learn English work hard and fit in
vote and pay tax's it's simple just dont
come,we dont need you...I have said before the Cubans seem to do just fine
and if they can so can the rest...
Why I abhor the terms "latino" and "hispanic"
I hadnt wanted to cover this subject here on Babalu for fear of opening up a great big ole can of worms, but I feel I have to clarify a few things regarding the recent protests by "latinos" or "hispanics" throughout the US.
First, there is no such thing as a "latino" race. There is no such thing as an "hispanic" race. Both terms are contrived and used solely for census purposes. There is no such country as "latinolandia" and Hispaniola is technically half of an island in the Caribbean.
Second, I am not nor will I ever be part of "La Raza." Nor do I agree or support their current protests. Some of you may, but I do not.
Third, I have never and will never, despite having many issues with the government of the United States throughout the years, burn a flag of the United States of America. I am Cuban by birth, American by the grace of God. And a darned proud, dignified, thankful and respectful American.
Fourth, while I certainly sympathize with the Mexican people for their country's economic and social troubles, I refuse to be lumped together as a class or a race simply because we speak a similar language. If Mexicans and Mexican-Americans had wanted my support, then they should have supported the cause of a free and democratic Cuba, instead of the majority and at times the Mexican government having sided with and legitimizing the government of fidel castro.
Fifth, there is a difference between a Cuban living in the United States and a Mexican living in the United States. One is a political refugee and the other is an immigrant, respectively. When Mexicans are being oppressed and have their basic human rights trampeled on by their government as Cubans do, then perhaps my opinion will change, until then, the aforementioned difference stands.
Mexicans and Mexican-Americans may very well have legitimate gripes with the government of the US, but as La Raza, the flags they are burning and flying up-side down below the Mexican flag do not speak for me. I aint Mexican, I aint Latino and I aint Hispanic. I am an American of Cuban descent. And damned proud of it.
"
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jan 16, 2008 12:17 PM:
That's one of the reasons that I am seriously looking at Ron Paul. "
concerned citizen wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:34 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:03 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 11:01 AM:
We have room for but one flag, the American flag
That is all fine and well but why don't you go and tell it to all the Irish bar owners who fly the Fennian colors every St Patricks Day?
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.
The thing that gets me about the bigots isn't their condemnation of divided allegiances but rather it is the fact that their condemnation is only applied to brown people. "
T & C wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:38 AM:
T & C wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:35 AM:
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 10:05 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:37 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:31 AM:
Now you're splitting hairs
No, Brian, there really is a difference between the word "better" and the word "good". If you don't believe me, check a dictionary.
To your larger point, no, I will not don jack boots and an arm band if it happens that McCain or Huckabee wins the White House nor will I suddenly embrace the Little Weiner.
I will, however, take a brief moment to celebrate the fact that the Worst President in History will have finally been relegated to his rightful place on the garbage heap of History. "
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 8:24 AM:
Now you're splitting hairs. I see you are reluctant to answer the question that I posed about your contempt for right wing sites. You've already admitted that anything would be better.
Will you change your position on right wing sites if we elect another R to the White House that you are comfortable with? It seems to me your theory of right wing sites is JUST a theory. Sensible Sage is right.
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:25 AM:
The guy is about knee high to a grasshopper, perhaps we could call him "Little Weiner"?
:) "
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:23 AM:
Michael Savage
I don't understand why you insist on calling this goof ball "Savage". His name is Michael Weiner. It seems to me that, for the sake of clarity and understanding, it would be better if we all referred to people by their real names and left whatever vainglorious titles they may have adopted on the playground. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:20 AM:
" Leonard, You're so out of touch with
what's going on. I don't know where to start. CAIR will not condemn it's base.
As I said, CAIR needs to condemn Hezbollah and Hamas. I believe we are in agreement on this issue but, if you want to disagree with my statement above, feel free to make your case.
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:59 AM:
Savage has a right to sue them.
Weiner certainly has the right to sue them but, since his suit is groundless, he will almost certainly lose.
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:59 AM:
Just by your admittance that you don't read that much news
Obviously, you either didn't read my post or you didn't understand what I wrote. I did not say that I didn't read much news, I simply said that I didn't get my news from blogs or Talk Radio.
Reading...it is fundamental, my friend.
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:59 AM:
And you said just recently
anyone is better than Bush. That said, will your contempt for right wing sites go away if we get another R in the White House? "
Chuckle.... do try to follow along. What I said was that anything would be better. I didn't say that anything would be good.
"
Gator wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:16 AM:
They are advocacy group for Muslims here
in America.They like to stir the pot and
keep it boiling such as the phony law
suit brought by the Notorious Flying Imams against the socalled John Does who
were on US Airways Flight 300, from Minneapolis, Minnesota to Phoenix and
the Minneapolis Taxi drivers,Target
store clerks,foot baths in Airports
and in schools and their connection
to Hammas and Hezbola. That is enough
for me to keep a weather eye on these clowns... "
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 7:05 AM:
Michael Savage has never filed nor is he filing a frivilous lawsuit. CAIR has filed dozens of frivilious lawsuits based on their philosophy that Islam should be the dominant religon in the U.S. These facts are clear and they are indesputable.
"
Brian wrote on Jan 16, 2008 6:59 AM:
what's going on. I don't know where to start. CAIR will not condemn it's base. Savage has a right to sue them.
Just by your admittance that you don't read that much news I find it hard to have any kind of dialogue with you. From what you have written the last six months on these blogs it's safe for me to say you have contempt for anything on the right. And you said just recently
anyone is better than Bush. That said, will your contempt for right wing sites go away if we get another R in the White House? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 16, 2008 4:38 AM:
1) CAIR needs to condemn Hezbollah and Hamas. End of story on that front.
2) Weiner needs to be a man and take responsibility for his words and actions. If you want to say outrageous things in the public sphere you have to be willing to take responsibility for the things you say.
It appears to me that Weiner is, truly, aptly named. Why someone would listen to this limp minded whiner is beyond me. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:45 PM:
Gator,
Here's a good list of known terorist organizations and it's safe to say CAIR
is not only a front group for Hezbollah
but many others on tis list. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:37 PM:
OTH wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:30 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:11 PM:
voter wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:11 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:02 PM:
I'd ask Brian but he would just give me an endless set of links to right wing hate sites. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:00 PM:
The Democrats are either unaware or just too stubborn to admit that CAIR sponsors terrorism. If the Domocrats are so smart why can't they produce candidates for president with any brains. Hillary and Obama want universal healthcare. Look what's happened to social security and medicare. And they want tax increases to the hilt. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:00 PM:
Nor do you follow anything that may be of conservative thought. It just doesn't fit your political agenda even if it is true because it may give Bush additional fuel against your base that
your base has no idea what's going on.
If its any comfort, I don't read liberal blogs either. Blogs may be a fun way to hash out ideas when you yourself are a participant, but they are a very poor source of facts.
I also don't watch CNN, CNBC or Fox News and I don't listen to talk radio, liberal or conservative.
Life is too short to waste time watching paid media whores spin. "
leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:57 PM:
Leonard, I resent your remarks that I only copy and paste. Most of my posts are my own words. I do occasionally copy and paste. Incidently, Michael Savage's lawsuit against CAIR will succeed.
I have never listened to Michael Wiener and I don't have any idea what CAIR is so I am not really sure why you are telling me this.
As for the field of Presidential contenders, I am pretty content this time around. The way I see it, who ever wins, Republican or Democrat, is bound to be 1000 times better than the disgrace that is currently soiling the office.
The time has come for America to heal. "
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:23 PM:
have made fools of the Russian Army...I
think you should read the entire post
on the link I provided It's a bit long
but worth it in the long run...As for
CAIR, simple, Americas worst night mare. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:12 PM:
Nor do you follow anything that may be of conservative thought. It just doesn't fit your political agenda even if it is true because it may give Bush additional fuel against your base that
your base has no idea what's going on. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:04 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 5:45 PM:
Poor intelligence gathering and inept diplomacy "SAYS A MOUTHFULL"Russian,French,German and
the Brits all believed he had something
Well, we know that in the case of British, the supposed evidence contained in the September Dossier was purposefully "sexed up" to create a pretext for war none would have otherwise existed. Blair has always been Bush's poodle.
As for the French and the Germans, both countries were relying primarily on the same falsified evidence that that the Administration was feeding to Congress. Neither country has tactical surveillance satellite coverage in the Persian Gulf and thus, both countries rely primarily on the US for such material.
As for Putin's Russia, I can think of a lot of reasons why they would like to see the US bogged down in a bloody trillion dollar quagmire. "
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 4:55 PM:
the Brits all believed he had something
and we knew he had left-overs of the stuff we gave him.Like I have said before Syria would have been a better place to draw the line in the sand.Then
if Clinton had taken the 3 shots a bin Laden he had we wouldn't be here in the
first place. Fall of 1998 they had him cold and a 2 hour window to do the job
and they screwed around and lost him. just like Bush did in the Tora-Bora,The
Problem then and now our leaders are
scared to kill people, Collateral damage
is a dirty word...
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:54 PM:
Leonard, Chuckle, I'll make sure I put it in my own words and not post links any more.
Awesome! I look forward to seeing what you have to say. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:53 PM:
In the vast majority of the cases you cite, the mistakes in question were caused by honest errors. Grant did not INTEND for the Confederates to catch him on the first day of Shiloh. Eisenhower did not INTEND to allow the Germans a shot at his underbelly.
In the case of the invasion of Iraq, however, I am convinced that George W. Bush INTENDED to lead America into war even though he KNEW that Iraq had no WMDs and, indeed, he KNEW that his own Administration had doctored the intelligence on hand to deceive Congress into authorizing the use of force.
To willfully take such an action KNOWING that it will result in the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of US Soldiers is, in my mind, High Treason and should be treated accordingly. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:52 PM:
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:06 PM:
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson122307.html "
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 3:04 PM:
doesn't make mistakes.I will list some
of those that are on par with Iraq or
far worse December 23, 2007
In War: Resolution
by Victor Davis Hanson
The Claremont Review I recomend anyone
wanting to check this out go to the
link on the bottom...
We should remember that long before the WMD controversy, the triggers for American wars have usually been odd affairs, characterized by poor intelligence gathering and inept diplomacy — and thus endless controversy and conspiracy mongering: for example, the so-called Thornton affair that started the Mexican War; the defense and shelling of Fort Sumter; the cry of "Remember the Maine!" that heralded the Spanish-American War; the murky circumstances surrounding the 1915 sinking of the Lusitania that turned public opinion against the Kaiser; the Pearl Harbor debacle; an offhand remark in January 1950 by Secretary of State Dean Acheson that South Korea was outside our "defense perimeter"; the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution; and an American diplomat's apparent signal of unconcern to Saddam Hussein immediately before he invaded Kuwait.
At the battlefield level, America's intelligence failures are even more shocking. On April 6, 1862, Union forces at Shiloh allowed a large, noisy Confederate army under General Albert Sidney Johnston to approach unnoticed (by both Generals Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman) to within a few thousand yards of their front with disastrous results. Grant — still clueless as to the forces arrayed against him — compounded his error by sending an ambiguous message for reinforcements to General Lew Wallace, resulting in a critical delay of aid for several hours. Hundreds of Union soldiers died in the meantime. Following the battle Union generals knew even less concerning the whereabouts of the retreating, defeated Confederate forces and thus allowed them to escape in safety. The hard-won Union victory became an object of blame-gaming for the remainder of the 19th century.
Perhaps the two costliest intelligence lapses of World War II preceded the Battle of the Bulge and Okinawa — both towards the end of the war, after radical improvements in intelligence methods and technology. Americans had no idea of the scope, timing, or aims of the massive German surprise attack through the Ardennes in December 1944, despite the battle-tested acumen of our two most respected generals, Dwight Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, and British and American intercepts of Wehrmacht messages. At Okinawa, American intelligence officers grievously underestimated the size, position, and nature of the Japanese deployment, and thus vastly overestimated the efficacy of their own pre-invasion bombing attacks. Yet Okinawa was not our first experience with island-hopping. It unfolded as the last invasion assault in the Pacific theater of operations—supposedly after the collective wisdom gleaned from Guadalcanal, the Marianas, Peleilu, the Philippines, Tarawa, and Iwo Jima had been well digested. Yet this late in the war, over 140,000 Americans were killed, wounded, or missing in the Ardennes and on Okinawa.
"
Boomer wrote on Jan 15, 2008 12:53 PM:
OTH wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:59 AM:
The Dreaded Rear Admiral may appear. I think he has ascended to the Poop Deck and somewhere on this blog his wife wife is blogging anonomously.
Never make fun of a man in a tri-cornered hat. After all, would you wear one? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:04 AM:
the biggest mistake was Paul Bremmer and
the mess he made..
Well, you won't get much argument from me there. The decision to disband the Iraqi Army was a disaster of epic proportions that cost the lives of thousands of American soldiers. "
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 8:00 AM:
side of going into the wrong country
Iraq over Syria and Rumsfeld and perhaps
the biggest mistake was Paul Bremmer and
the mess he made...Not much left to do but finish what you start and clean up
the bloody mess and I fully believe it
will come back to haunt us in spades if
we don't... "
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:49 AM:
Far from making the world safer, the bungled Bush invasion of Iraq created the most bountiful recruiting ground the radical Islamic terrorists have ever known while, at the same time, providing a target rich environment where these young murderers could gain experience and tactical knowledge.
The invasion of Iraq started as a distraction and ended up being a disaster in the War on Terror. It is only now, almost 5 years after the invasion, that the US is even coming close to reestablishing order in some parts of the country. "
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:41 AM:
with and its from the BBC.
Following the 11 September 2001 attacks and the US invasion of Afghanistan, he is believed to have fled to Iraq after a US missile strike on his Afghan base.
US officials say that it was at al-Qaeda's behest that he moved to Iraq and established links with Ansar al-Islam - a group of Kurdish Islamists from the north of the country
But it has been in Iraq, though, that he was said to have been most active.
He was blamed for some of the first big insurgency attacks to shake Iraq following the US-invasion to overthrow Saddam.
These included the truck bombing that killed 23 people including UN envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello at the world body's headquarters in Baghdad on 19 August 2003 and the blast in Najaf 10 days later that killed a senior Shia cleric and more than 85 others.
A letter released by the Americans in February 2004 seemed to support their claim that targeting Shias is central to Zarqawi's strategy in Iraq.
In it, Zarqawi appeared to share his plans for igniting sectarian conflict in Iraq as a means of undermining the US presence there.
Within days of the letter's release, bomb attacks on recruiting centres for the Iraqi security forces had killed nearly 100 people.
Another approach that sent shockwaves around the world was the beheadings of foreign hostages, which were posted on the internet in video footage attributed to the Tawhid and Jihad group.
In some of them, Zarqawi himself was said to be the man wielding the knife
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:40 AM:
"
Gator wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:37 AM:
was always right and never wrong,but that was before I saw the name Leonard
now all that has changed.It's one thing to be a sceptic but to be a one eyed
one sided one is foolish.There are other
people in the world who's views count for some thing and are not spoon fed
crap by idealogs of either party...
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:34 AM:
He has managed to smear Debbie Schlussel for reporting that Hezbollah has a foothold
Brian, let me make this clear. I would never comment on anything that Debbie Schlussel has written because I would NEVER read anything that this sad, pathetic excuse for human scum would write.
What I did say is that Debbie Schlussel blew whatever slight whiff of credibility she might have had when she began to personally attack the victims of terrorism and their families, including children under the age of 12.
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:26 AM:
I'm surprised he hasn't he hasn't debunked what's going on in the Dearborn, MI area because I haven't given any specific dates.
Brian, the reason I haven't commented on whatever mysterious happenings may be going on in Dearborn is because I do not follow blind links posted on blogs.
If you would like to express your concerns about whatever is happening in Dearborn in your own words, I would be happy to give you my thoughts on the matter, whatever it may be. "
Brian wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:22 AM:
" Gator wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:23 PM:
Since Abu Musab Al Zarqawi formed the Al Qaeda in Iraq franchise
I am just curious. On what date did this momentous forming occur? "
Get ready. Leonard's going to debunk this if Gator doesn't produce a date.
I'm surprised he hasn't he hasn't debunked what's going on in the Dearborn, MI area because I haven't given any specific dates. He has managed to smear Debbie Schlussel for reporting that Hezbollah has a foothold in Michigan because of the election of a judge. Of course he alleges this is a misinformation campaign of the right. I'm not surprised he would make this allegation. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:42 PM:
Since Abu Musab Al Zarqawi formed the Al Qaeda in Iraq franchise
I am just curious. On what date did this momentous forming occur? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:40 PM:
" Brian is getting ready to call silly names again.
LOL!
Personally, I am kind of hoping that he will start telling us stories about his time in the Navy SEALS again.
Bring on the Dreaded Rear Admiral!!! "
leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:38 PM:
Your reluctance to point out that radical Islam is a threat to the stability of the world makes me wonder if you're even aware of it.
One of the things that I love about Brian is the way that he always addresses himself to what he wishes that you thought rather than to what you actually think.
Real people are complicated and they don't easily fit into the stereotypes and strawmen that make up the currency of neo con talk radio.
How inconvenient! "
OTH wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:30 PM:
"
Gator wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:23 PM:
Islam this seems to point to away from
said religion except asa tool for al-Qaeda
The Rings on Zarqawi's Finger
“I am a ring on your finger.” — Al Qaeda in Iraq member Abu Anas to Abu Musab Al Zarqawi
Since Abu Musab Al Zarqawi formed the Al Qaeda in Iraq franchise, the terrorist group that destroyed the World Trade Center has fought American soldiers and what they call the near enemy, fellow Muslims, instead of civilians in the homeland of the far enemy, the United States. This may be good for Americans, but it has been a catastrophe for Iraqis – especially in Baghdad, Ramadi, and Fallujah.
“The Al Qaeda organization is the enemy of Iraqis and of Americans,” Mahmoud said. “We are Muslims. Sunnis. Al Qaeda came through Islam and used it to enter Iraqi lands. They are killers, insurgents, they don't respect humanity. They don't belong to Islam or have religious beliefs. They have no kind of religious beliefs.” "
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:14 PM:
that the adherents of Islam are more likely to justify murder than compassion. The Koran is quite clear that compassion is low on the list of priorities for Islam. Mohammed wasn't exactly someone you would want to live next to. "
Hmmm wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:10 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 8:03 PM:
Leonard, Facts are facts. Modern day Christianity is nothing like modern day Islam.
You have a remarkable talent for stating the obvious.
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:48 PM
Your reluctance to point out that radical Islam is a threat to the stability of the world makes me wonder if you're even aware of it.
I certainly am not reluctant to admit that radical Islam is a threat to the stability of the world. You forget that I have watched Islamic terrorists kill thousands of people before my very eyes.
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:48 PM:
No Leonard, Christianity hasn't changed but the times have changed and people view Christianity differently now.
As I said, these things are cyclical.
Any religion can either be used to justify compassion or murder on what its adherents want. Christianity can either be used to justify compassion or murder, depending on what its adherents want. Islam can either be used to justify compassion or murder on what its adherents want.
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:48 PM:
Is there something we should know Leonard? "
LOL!!!! I could fill books with the things you should know. "
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:48 PM:
Is there something we should know Leonard? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 6:06 PM:
Aren't they the ones who got us in this mess in the first place? "
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 5:41 PM:
" Leonard, since you won't find anything in modern Christian society that even comes close to what is happening in Islam you therefore don't have a case.
Brian, I am curious. Has Christianity changed in some fundamental way over the last 150 years? Have new Gospels been discovered? Has Christ come again with a message to be kind to the Jews???
OR, have the secular governments of the predominantly Christian states in the West simply adopted a more enlightened policy of accepting religious minorities as full members of their societies?
The fact is that these things are cyclical. When the Moors ruled Spain, they accorded the Jews with many rights while the Christians in Darkened Europe murdered them by the hundreds of thousands in their endless pogroms. In the last two centuries, things have swept in the other direction. Two hundred years from now, who is to say how the cards will have fallen?
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 6:44 AM:
I know the history of Christianity well.
Chuckle... given your posts here, I sincerely doubt the factual basis of that statement "
T & C wrote on Jan 14, 2008 10:33 AM:
T & C wrote on Jan 14, 2008 10:27 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:51 AM:
This casts a dark shadow on how far women have come. "
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 7:48 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 6:54 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 14, 2008 6:44 AM:
There is no martyrdom in modern Christian society, no jihad, no second class citizenship for other religons. I know the history of Christianity well. It is a fact that legions of more muslims share the same philiosophies as OBL and pose an imminent threat to the world's stability. People that share Jerry Fallwell's philosophies have neither the inclination or the motives to repeat the dark history of Christianity. Unfortunately Islam is still in it's dark ages and perhaps only the second coming of Christ will bring this to an end. From one Christian to another, God Bless You. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 4:07 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 14, 2008 4:02 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 8:43 PM:
Where in Christian society are people of other religons treated as
second class citizens?
If you had even a rudimentary understanding of history, you would know that for most of the last 1500 years Jews have been treated as second class citizens throughout Christendom.
America was the first predominantly Christian country to grant Jews full civil rights and it was only in the late 19th century that most European countries granted Jews equal rights. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 8:38 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 7:02 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 6:56 PM:
second class citizens? Christianity allows for other religons to be treated as equal unlike Islam that must be the dominant religon and all others are second class. You really don't have any idea or are too stupid to ackowledge the spread of Islam in Michigan. That said, you have reached a new low in your ignorance. I have researched it. Unless you can refute all the evidence of what's going on in the Dearborn area I suggest you keep your trap shut. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 6:44 PM:
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976 "
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 5:45 PM:
The amusing thing about this post is that The Fundamentalist Christians preach exactly the same thing, that politics and religion cannot and should not be separated. The only difference is that the Christian Jihadists think that governments should eventually be Fundamentalist Christian. "
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 5:39 PM:
Your silence on this front is both deafening and damning. "
leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 5:37 PM:
Just one more example of the complete moral bankruptcy of the Right. "
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 3:32 PM:
danielh wrote on Jan 13, 2008 3:29 PM:
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 3:04 PM:
danielh wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:49 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:48 PM:
"
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:46 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:45 PM:
Voter, You and many others choose to bury thy head in the sand when it comes to radical Islam. I could post
dozens of articles on the threat it poses to the U.S. "
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:40 PM:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/11/hezbollah_judge.html
Voter, This is one example of what's going on in Michigan. There are also reports of honor killings in Michigan
under the guides of Sharia Law that barely get any coverage. If one digs enough there is evidence of Islamic law
being imposed in the U.S. "
bry wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:05 PM:
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 2:04 PM:
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 1:53 PM:
bry wrote on Jan 13, 2008 1:49 PM:
bry wrote on Jan 13, 2008 1:40 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jan 13, 2008 12:56 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jan 13, 2008 12:24 PM:
To ask Brian to prove that the Patriot Act has stopped a terrorist attack, however, is absolutely within the rules of public discourse. "
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 11:23 AM:
brought forward any evidence that attacks weren't thwarted. Does it mean attacks weren't thwarted because I haven't done the research? give me a break. I'll post some links to make you happy!!! "
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 11:01 AM:
Bry wrote on Jan 13, 2008 10:42 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 13, 2008 9:47 AM:
voter wrote on Jan 13, 2008 9:24 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 13, 2008 7:20 AM:
Islamic law. "
voter wrote on Jan 12, 2008 6:32 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 6:20 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 6:08 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 6:01 PM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 5:43 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 5:32 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 5:30 PM:
3 1/2 and 18 months. A boy and a girl
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 3:30 PM:
Eileen St Yves wrote on Jan 12, 2008 3:13 PM:
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 2:47 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 2:31 PM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 2:29 PM:
boondoggle, practically mothbolling the military, tax increases to the hilt, and an intern who does cigar tricks with her dress up. Bush is still struggling with Clinton's answer to a
budget surplus in the form of compromising our military presence. "
Patricia wrote on Jan 12, 2008 2:21 PM:
Ivan Dixon wrote on Jan 12, 2008 12:20 PM:
nylodian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 12:18 PM:
Patricia wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:51 AM:
voter wrote on Jan 12, 2008 8:34 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 8:08 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 8:02 AM:
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 8:01 AM:
"
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 8:00 AM:
I'll take Pelosi. At least someone elected her. "
Brian wrote on Jan 12, 2008 7:57 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 7:10 AM:
Leonard wrote on Jan 12, 2008 7:06 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.