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Episcopal Church and homosexuality: Who gets to set the rules?


Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:42 AM PST

Comments (743 comment(s))

On Dec. 8, clergy and lay members of the "conservative" Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin voted to split from the "liberal"-leaning Episcopal church. The diocese, based in Fresno, plans to align itself with the like-minded Anglican Province of the Southern Cone, based in South America.

The main point of disagreement between the two groups is over the subject of homosexuality. This disagreement basically boils down to interpretations of Scripture, also known as the Bible. The quarrel came to a boil in 2003, when the Episcopal Church consecrated the first ever openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire. The San Joaquin diocese is also one of just three Episcopal dioceses that will not ordain women.

These have been, over the last several years, trying times for religious organizations all across America. Hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars have been paid out to victims of childhood sexual abuse by priests and others in positions of authority in dioceses all across the country. Given these tribulations and the tremendous emotional and psychological toll that these crimes have caused, it seems to me that it would be in the best interest of churches everywhere to rein in whatever tacit approval that there may be of sexual experimentation. Not, with a wink and a nod, give it an implied blessing.

Homosexuality, whether you believe it to be innate or learned behavior, does (at least to me) appear to go against the natural order of the universe. Procreation, with rare few exceptions in nature, is accomplished by the bonding of male and female cells on, at the very least, a primary level.

Most rational beings would consider heterosexual relations to be fundamental to the further existence of the human race. The same simply cannot be said of homosexuality, though mankind is at this point in time infinitely more threatened by nuclear holocaust than by the lack of procreation.

I do not wish to condemn or speak ill of anybody by writing this column. I know several good people whom I consider friends and who happen to be gay. I have an uncle who was, in fact, openly gay. What two people do in the privacy of their own home is absolutely none of my business. Different congregations and denominations have every right to believe whatever they decide in their hearts is best for their flock.

We are all human, less than perfect and implicitly flawed. Every one of us makes decisions regarding morality and right and wrong every day. What one of us decides is OK to do in any given situation may, but need not be, deemed OK by somebody else.

Basic tolerance and acceptance should, without doubt, be afforded to every single person on this planet. Institutions large and small should, for the most part, strive for diverse points of view and inclusiveness.

It is my humble opinion, for what its worth as a baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic, that there needs to be a clear distinction established between inclusion and consecration, however.

If the church is not allowed to establish and follow a finite set of rules ... who is? There comes a time when one simply must draw a line in the sand somewhere.

J. Kurt Roberts can be reached at jkurtroberts@sbcglobal.net.

Reader Feedback

real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2007 3:20 PM:

" 12x; what you said....is 100% biblically right. high five for speaking the truth about Gods word / authority. ever notice how NO ONE brought forth ONE post that demonstrated i hated gays? ever noticed that they continually chide me for my being in here, throwing in a few "altruistic reasons" as to why they are (their feigned integrity), but NO ONE has stepped forward to right that wrong about lying about my character? to prove they are nothing more than liars, and ppl who don't address this issue of lying about me, they won't address it still. they never will. they address that, they underline thier own sin, and the fallout of thier anti-biblical stance. trickle down theology. it just proves i'm right about them. anybody? anybody prove i hate homosexuals? anybody willing to demonstrate integrity by apologizing to me for saying that about me? didn't think so....integrity giants you all are "

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real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2007 3:10 PM:

" 12x; now maybe you can understand the level i take it to, in order to make sure these ppl cannot continue the ability to give sin (any sin) a free pass. they lie, i call it a lie. they lie incessantly without ANY show of remorse about it, i call them what they are...liars. i am really good at seperating ppl from thier words, in order to demonstrate why they are really here. you ask a legitimate questions with legitimate intent behind it, you will be treated with respect. you play games and especially lie about Gods word when you are NOT IGNORANT of what it actually says, your going to get opposition. straight up truth opposition. thier not used to being opposed by someone who won't allow them to trash Gods authority at will. thier used to bullying their position around under the auspices of "loving and tolerant". baloney. their agenda comes in that door disguised as that, but isn't. thats where i come in. the tedious task of seperating these ppl from the words, in order to maintain Gods authority is worth it. i sit and laugh at them because they seek to make this about me. the ONLY reason i defend any attack on my character by these integrity filled ppl, is that by doing so, the fallout is the protection of Gods authority. if they lie about me, and who i am in here after i have accuretly mirored Gods word, that gives them their free pass to sin reign in here. in the end, it's of no consequence about who i am, its' all about Gods authority. when you have to resort to lying about someone, it's because you have no position. i am totally fine with thier character assasinations. think it's funny actually knowing "they" think they have me. sad really. you can't trust someone who is so willing to lie. character is everything when it comes to Gods word. truth prevails when their IS character. you show that you lie, your "truth" is merely a falsehood, based in human emotion (at best). me? i just hold up the mirror in here. they can be nasty and "pretend altruism" all they want. there just not used to having a Christian that possess' enough ability to paint who they really are, and what their true agenda is about. you do realize 12x, that this little blog dance is nothing, compared to the level this will go to someday in the none too distant future? it will rival the early church, where Christians were used as "torches" to light the city of rome. it's biblical. while it's headed there, i need to take out the trash on the way there. make sense now? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 27, 2007 2:41 PM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 26, 2007 10:46 PM:
" I see the old boy is still here"). and i see that you are now using your "degree" from wuss university. you took time away from your "family", to type this, and copy and paste your swipe at my character, but continue to lie about your inability to both qualify YOUR claims, and answer TWO questions i gave you to challenge your weak position. shall i copy and paste your posts where you chided me for the SAME THING you just did to me? what cracks me up, is all i have to do is stick around here long enough to demonstrate that you ppl could care less about intellectual integrity concerning this issue. you just did, what you accused me of. top that off with the fact that i just busted you in your lie about you being "unable" to answer my question, based on your wuss out excuses (especially about not "having enough time"). you didn't, because you know you really don't have a biblical position that stands up against biblical scrutiny. now that your caught in it, you skate like everyone else in here. you may possess alot of other "admirable attributes", but you fail the integrity test, both secularly speaking, and biblically speaking. biblical, being the "test" you should be concerned with most. YOUR the one that claimed to be a "christian" afterall. your wasting your time on attacking my character, so you can give a free pass to sin to yourself and others. you should work on the sin thats eroding your character.....willfull lying. another question (seeing how Jesus is your "Lord")...what does the bible call ppl who lie at will, with no intention of repentance from it? a deceiver. what happens to ppl that purposefully deceive others? especially when that "deception" is
aimed at the body of Christ (other Christians)? your going to want to know that, because your "picture" is right next to that "biblical definition". do your homework lee, and repent. Gods discipline for purposefully lying about his authority is a nasty one. "

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12x wrote on Dec 27, 2007 8:02 AM:

" RF: I have debated this and other sinful topics and what many will deny, for their own convenience, is the Biblical view which separates love for people and hatred towards sin. A sinner is loved, the sin is hated. This concept is purposefully ignored as to vilify Christians as haters of people, which is the polar opposite of the truth. Christians love people so much that they expose unconfessed sin for what it is, a roadblock that prevents a relationship with their Maker and ultimately eternal damnation in Hell. Some wish to ignore facts for their own agenda. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 26, 2007 11:23 PM:

" real facts: I've got some definitions here. You may find these interesting. You'll probably want to copy and past these. I know you enjoy that sort of thing... 1) paranoid schizophrenia; A form of schizophrenia in which delusions of persecution or grandeur (or both), hallucinations, and ideas of reference predominate and sometimes are systematized 2) mental illness; Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors ...And one more... 3) overblown; Full of empty or pretentious language; bombastic: overblown oratory
"

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Lee wrote on Dec 26, 2007 10:47 PM:

" I see the old boy is still here. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 10:45 PM:

" lodian; that whole twisted garbage you threw into the wind about how i feel and interact with gay ppl? that was from the pit of hell. you know EXACTLY what i said AND meant. you twisted my words because your soul is twisted. anytime a person stoops that low, there isn't another "rung" left on the humanty "ladder". that was sick. pure liberal garbage tactics. when your position, becomes no position, resort to lying about a persons character. what i said about your character in here/ 100% accurate. brutal truth, yes. but at least i didn't EVER resort to lying about you to strengthen my position. good job lodian. if anyone in here suffers from hatred, it's you. now that you reside on the bottom of the barrel, can't wait for another round of deluded ramblings. where's that post where i said i hated gays at? and that apology you owe me for saying or implying i did? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 10:32 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:36 PM:
I think it's an unnatural obsession to be so crazed about addressing homosexuality what two loving committed people do in the privacy of their bedroom"). God defines whats "loving" (you and i don't). he did. in that definition, God defined love in the form of marriage, between a man and a woman. tons and tons and tons of marriages between a man and a woman in the bible. NOT ONE HINT of anything about homosexual marriage. not one. i asked you to find me one, seeing how YOU know what God approves of. you never have. just like all the rest of the ppl in here. completely backed out of here on answering that question. there isn't one instance where God discussed sexual love between ppl of the same gender. ever read the song of soloman? of course not. you don't read your bible for "proof". your "gospel" is what you pull out of your head. psalms and proverbs? lots of marital, even sexual references. NO homosexual marriage references. outside of the bible, it has never fit the definition of "natural" in any time in history. unnatural never becomes "natural", according to Gods design and laws. unnatural can never acheive "loving" status. your just spewing "acceptance", because you refuse Gods authority over your life. acceptance is something ppl like you want to happen, not God (hate the sin, love the sinner). i can assure you, God will NEVER give a free pass to sin. or......you can quit "pretending" you know, and show me biblically where it does. YOU are the one that claims to be a "christian". if thats so, Jesus Christ rules your life, and so does Gods word. you CANNOT seperate those two. but boy are you giving it the try of your life in here. show me where the bible gives it's "blessing" to homosexual sex in a marriage, and i will leave these blogs forever. if you could, you would accomplish that in a heartbeat. because you can't, it shows your wrong...your unwillingness to provide biblical proof, coupled with your fast skate away from me calling you out on this, proves you have no position, other than your personal disdain for Gods authority. watch her skate. you should change your screename to tonya harding. you and her have alot in common. you both "skate", as well as lack integrity.. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 10:07 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:36 PM:
I think you'd actually hurt me if we met in person"). another new low in your hit parade, in your attempt at discredidation. despite my sincerety on my treatment of EVERY KIND of humanity away from this blog, suddenly your "worried". your either insecure in your own life (which has nothing to do with me), or your purposefully lying about my character in order to change the focus off the subject matter "what does God think about sin"? this is getting weird. actually, YOUR getting weird "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 9:57 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:18 PM:
real facts:(1)you have nothing to stand on when accusing anyone of a "lack of comprehension skills". Are you really serious? Most of your posts don't even look like you were typing when completely coherent. (2)A man that knows he doesn't have much to stand on for all his fears and hatred of homosexuality"). nothing? how about your total disregard for everything i write, just because you don't like me, and lie to discredit me? now because your desperate about it, your lies about your "inablility" to read and understand my posts. you have sunk to a new low. totally predictable given your level of integrity. now you excuse yourself because of "me". "me"... has nothing to do with your inability to read what i wrote. thats just another lie. number (2) is your most continual heinous lie. you continue to try and perpetuate within that sentence, that i hate homosexuality ..."singularly". in your twisted world, your still implying that i hate homosexuals. you have to be one twisted person to lie that freely. you owe me an apology for saying that. i asked you SPECIFICALLY to name ONE time where i said / implied i hated gay ppl? you haven't, because there isn't one ANYWHERE, where i said that. prove it, or post me an apology. or, you are the liar without integrity, i painted you to be. you read it, you understand it....now prove it. you feign "understanding" when it suits you. when you read something i wrote that you don't like, you have NO PROBLEM understanding that. whats sad is to see how desperate you have become, to descredit me, in hopes of gaining a victory in turning homosexuality into a "normal behavior". your swimming upstream against the current. that "river" is called the RIVER OF FUTILITY. you read that, right? a person "rowing" with only one oar, and rows on only one side of the "boat", finds herself rowing in circles. i fully don't expect you to comprehend that. i do expect you to keep "rowing" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 9:27 PM:

" the last paragrah in j. kurt roberts article reads..."

"If the church is not allowed to establish and follow a finite set of rules ... who is? There comes a time when one simply must draw a line in the sand somewhere kurt roberts article reads..."

as it turned out, i drew that line in here by mirroing Gods standards. both regarding the biblical treatment of sin (by actually calling it sin), and the treatment of individuals who struggle with sin. hate the sin (i never ONCE condemned a gay person to "hell"), love the sinner. you guys departed from that. not me "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:49 PM:

" "I'd be right there in your face, disagreeing with you"...Well, maybe not. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:37 PM:

" real facts: You say that you "purposefully talk to gays". I think that is an odd statement. Why do you care (and how do you know whom is gay or not) what their personal preferences are in the bedroom? It's none of your business. Do they wear an "I'm Gay" button so you can tell who is gay? You really have way too much focus on people that are gay. I think it's an unnatural obsession to be so crazed about addressing homosexuality what two loving committed people do in the privacy of their bedroom. I know people get "anonymous blogger courage" here sometimes, but you seem like you'd be a threat to others in real life. I think you'd actually hurt me if we met in person. Maybe it's because I'd be right there in your face, disagreeing with you, and you'd hate that! Maybe you have never had a Christian stand up to you before and this is all a new thing for you. Maybe people ditch you or just ignore your behavior and radical views. Whatever the reason that you are under the impression that you have all these people in town just loving everything about you, think again. People don't always tell you how they feel right to your face. They may be just putting up with you. Think about it. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:18 PM:

" real facts: You have nothing to stand on when accusing anyone of a "lack of comprehension skills". Are you really serious? Most of your posts don't even look like you were typing when completely coherent. I can tell when you're getting angry. Your posts are hardly able to be read at all, even worse than usual. Ramblings of a madman? A lonely man? A man that knows he doesn't have much to stand on for all his fears and hatred of homosexuality? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 6:09 PM:

" nylodian: The poster "real facts" doesn't want to hear of, let alone address, any of his obvious sins and hatred. He just wants to continue to berate others here, calling people every name he can think of, into some kind of submission. He wants us all to believe only what he believes, his interpretations. He thinks he is obviously the one that knows exactly what God's word is and what path we are to follow. Never mind all the other children of God in the world... the rest of us know nothing in his eyes. It's also interesting that real facts adds all those personal kudos regarding who he thinks he is in this town. I wonder who he thinks would actually care about that sort of thing, especially in a blog like this one. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 5:52 PM:

" nylodian: Thanks so much. We had a lovely Christmas. Kids are home from college and the family is healthy. I am humbled and incredibly thankful for our blessings. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 5:37 PM:

" lodian; (1) i answered BOTH of those questions, within my last couple of posts. either you don't read my posts, or you lack comprehension skills. (2) can't you ever qualify your accusations? you accused me of "hating" homosexuals. when i called you on it, and asked you to PROVE it, you SKATED. why is that lodian? because you can't qualify YOUR statement? do it, or you have lied about me... "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 5:30 PM:

" nylodian; i wrote that to demonstrate the perpetual lie in here that i "hate" homosexuals. ppl that have hatred for ppl, don't experience "acceptance" on that level. they still lied about me, after i explained to them i purposefully talk to gays, because i respect them as valuable human beings. i know who i am, and have no need to rectify my character. but i will go to any length i need to, to defend the integrity of Gods word. i could care less about what someone says about me. i do care when ppl turn this around, and make it about "hatred", so they can excuse away Gods authority. i had to do that, in order to make my caee, that this isn't "hatred" ....it's sin. you would be right, if this blog was about me. it's not. it's about the integrity of Gods word. it always was. it's for that reason the episcopal church "spilt", and the reason this article about it spawned this blog. pride IS sin. don't confuse fortitude against sin, as "pride". it's too bad you don't know who i am. you could interview all those ppl in town i claim know me, and see if i am a person of character, or if i am filled with pride... "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 4:33 PM:

" In my humble experience, those who are truly well-respected don't HAVE to explain or convince others that they are so. Hi Lodian: I hope your Christmas was Merry as well. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 4:29 PM:

" Real "Facts" wrote: "you would be dead surprised if you knew who i was in this town. i am an extremely well known, and respected person in this town. there are not many places in this town that i can't go were ppl don't know me, and are glad to see me. and that includes "people" in just about every "category".... Hey isn't PRIDE one of the deadly sins? Or is that just in everyone else's Bible? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 4:07 PM:

" real facts: I mean "really" talk to about these topics? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 4:06 PM:

" real facts: I'm wondering... do you have anyone you can talk to in your life? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 3:47 PM:

" lodian; read verse (16). it calls "lying" an abomination. abomination is the same word God used when describing homosexual sex in leviticus. the same word describes the bible's view toward hetrosexual sex outside of marriage. your "hate" angle is a lie. and your perpetual lying tongue puts you firmly in the "abomination behavior" category...

Proverbs 6
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
"

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real facts wrote on Dec 26, 2007 3:22 PM:

" lodian; you continue to lie in here by your accusation that i "hate"
homosexuals. i NEVER once said that, or implied that. in fact, i went out of my way to differentiate between hating sin, and loving people, no matter WHO they are. lodian, your just a nasty person that you would twist my words on purpose. i hate sin, and i hate the sin you so easily run to (a lying tongue), just like Jesus did. for you to make a legitimate case against me, you would have to find ONE post were i SPECIFICALLY said i hated homsexuals, or gays. you would give the world right now, to silence my voice in these blogs. given the amount of opposing tripe you spent towards me. tell you what, find ONE post where i said i hated homosexuals or gays. if you don't or can't, that means you ARE a liar. people with integrity confirm thier accusations, and that confirms their truths. (God is pleased with that, huh?) ppl like you lie about others, then run and hide. there will always be one thing you can count on from me in these blogs, i will ALWAYS demonstrate that your lying, when you are. or......you can PROVE me to be the liar, and show me ONE post. watch her skate this one "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 1:50 PM:

" For me, as a Christian, I'll take my chances with love....not hate, when it comes to addressing others and their sexual orientation. I believe this kind of hate, for homosexuals, comes from a place of fear and misguided interpretations. For so many, this seems to be such a huge fork in the road. If one doesn't agree that homosexuality is a sin (most of those people hate the "so-called" sinner --homosexual-- as well) then we too are sinners for the simple reason that we disagree with their interpretation. To me, this is pure insanity... as has been witnessed here on this blog. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 26, 2007 1:41 PM:

" Hope you all had a Merry Christmas! Lee, that was a great post (Dec 24@2:57pm). I'm with you. The God I believe in doesn't ask us to pick out a small section of the Bible and dissect it into meaning that we should attack others and call them sinners for not having the same interpretation as I do. God can be the judge on those hearts that are filled with hate. It's really sad that someone would attack a person so brutally for loving another, male or female. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 25, 2007 10:54 AM:

" you would be dead surprised if you knew who i was in this town. i am an extremely well known, and respected person in this town. there are not many places in this town that i can't go were ppl don't know me, and are glad to see me. and that includes "people" in just about every "category" you can think of. peripherally, my familY IS my priority. if you knew how long it had been since i had seen my kids, but spent time in here dealing with the stuff Gods asks me too, my family "sacrifice" would surpass your lame excuse as to why you skated. i haven't seen my kids for a long time, because their in college in another state. me AND my wife crave time with them. but i do what God asks me, because he IS my Lord. and if that means dealing with this stuff in here so ppl can't think they can have a free-pass to sin. i will do it. i hate sin. so does God. love ppl, just like God. you ppl are giving a free-pass to it. high five yourself "

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real facts wrote on Dec 25, 2007 10:09 AM:

" lee; thats baloney. you skated from the questions i asked you, because for no other reason that your not man enough to answer them. your like all the rest. you blame oters for something your not man enough to do. you had enough "time" to write a 6,000 word bust my chops love letter. but not enough "time" to answer one little question. i won't let you forget that you were "man enough" to come at me, including your barrage of questions. i asked you one, and you DID run. it's what you ppl do when you can't recify "thru Gods word) your position. look at the number of posts. NO ONE answered that question "show me one scripture in the bible that OK's homosexual sex". NO ONE. everyone had the TIME it took to post scriptures they thought busted me on issues, but NO ONE. your just one of them. the "hate" angle. thats a joke and a common cop-out for ppl like you. if Jesus condemns sin, YOU just called him a "hater" too. that alone shows you know less than you claim you do. when you claim you didn't have "time" to answer my question, count yourself a liar as well. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 3:01 PM:

" lee; my last comment for today, then i have to go....ppl think that NO ONE can cast judgement upon anothers actions or words. thats totally 100% unbiblical. you ppl cast "judgement" everyday upon ppl, and either tell them what they are doing is wrong, or distancing yourself because they are. either way, it's completely hypocritcal when ppl bust that scriture out. the ONLY reason they do, is try and silence what their hearing. it's unbiblical to tell a half truth, to make your "biblical" point. that make sense? if it doesn't, read the WHOLE of those passages. in those passages, Jesus promoted judicial judgement, and how to do it correctly. you would laugh if your children pull that on you "judge not, lest you be judged" .....daddy. rediculous ppl that could care less about the real truths in life, but "pretend" that they do "

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Lee wrote on Dec 24, 2007 2:57 PM:

" real facts: What does "saked" mean exactly? And I never "ran" from anything here....it's called having a real life outside of an anonymous message board on the local news site. Try it sometime. A loving wife, family and friends is a true blessing. Is the reason you spew your hate here because your "old" church won't have you and your family and friends have left you to wallow in your own festering hate? You have not asked me one question with respect or from a place of sincerity. You only ask questions out of spite and hate and wait for someone, anyone, to answer you and then you pounce with a vengeance. If your god praises you for this kind of fellowship then it's not the same as my God. My God is about love. And yes, my God loves me no matter how much I mess up and get back up again. How about yours? You say your job here is to expose those that are not Christians? And you do this with attacks? You mean you are supposed to attack loving, honest Christian people that try hard to live by and understand the word of God? Is this what you think your god has set for you to accomplish with such hatred in your words? You say we are all lost souls with dark hearts. My God does not tell me this. HE tells me I am forgiven. His first born son died for all of us.....yes, you too. You see, that is what my God is all about. You'll have to get the answers to your questions elsewhere as I am no longer playing your "game" as you called it (with your bet$ and all). You're playing an evil game in the name of God. I'd be worried if I were you. Yes, HE can be a vengeful God, HE knows what's in your heart. You need our prayers, not our answers to your questions (based in hate while laying in wait). That's just plain evil. Say a prayer, real facts, say it fast and say it often. Now's the time, fella. I know you will come back with your usual favorite diatribe (you can't seem to get any new material) and cast me and all here into the worst light (Is that God's plan for you?) so go right ahead. I am confident in my LORD and SAVIOR. We have a great relationship whether you and I converse on the topic or not. HE knows my heart, so you see, you can condemn, judge, ridicule and personally attack me all you like in the name of your so-called Christian values. You can even stone me with your hate. As a real Christian, with God in my heart, I'll be just fine. May God bless and guide you in the ways of his love. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 2:54 PM:

" billy: didn't bother to read all your tripe. i know your "deal", and fully realized a long time ago that willfull depravity causes insanity. i DO know your evil (at least your actions in here are). don't know you personally. don't want to. your not interested in being a decent human being on this board, so it would be a total waste of time TO know you personally. but "you" in here? PURE EVIL. you couldn't point me to ONE post in ANY of the blogs in here over the last year that you ever ONCE made any attempt at a civil "converstaion". everyone of them was a nasty uncalled for "swipe" on something YOU don't believe in, to ppl that do. your an evil little trouble making troll (in here). if is was like you, i would have attacked your homosexuality like you were some kind of dog. very rarely have i ever mentioned that you were gay in our little "dances". stayed away from it because it has nothing to do with why your evil, and my subsequent proving who you really are. your homosexuality isn't your "problem". your problem is that your a jerk to ppl just because your angry. thats what i go after, not your homosexuality. don't agree with homosexuality (thats obvious). you act human, don't care who you are and what your into. i have respect for ppl that act human and have INTEGRITY. you lie, i oppose you. you trash ppl and God, i oppose you. you play games, i oppose you. you act respectably, you get my respect. you don't, i will make sure ppl know what your true motives are. the above is not "aimed" soley at you, it applies to EVERYONE i deal with. do you know dan that it is not homosexuality that condemns a person to hell? it DOESN'T (and neither do i). it isn't anything special in the long line of "sins". it is sin, and NO DIFFERENT than any other sin anyone can name. anybody want to start another blog on any other sin, feel free. it will get the same amount of "attention" i give homosexuality when we are talking about it. don't believe me? i have known for a year that dan is gay. "if" i "hated" homosexuals, i would have raked him over the coals like theres no tomorrow. the guy gives me a free pass to do so based on his verbage to me. not going to do it. don't hate homosexuals. hate sin though. as you can se in here, i am not one that is afraid of saying how i really feel. take a hike dan. come back when you can act like a decent human being. i could care less that your gay. thats your choice, and i am fine with that "

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Lee wrote on Dec 24, 2007 2:31 PM:

" real facts said, "ppl like think now one can cast judgement against another persons actions or words". Can you rephrase that? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 2:29 PM:

" lee; well, i guess your not an "integrity giant" either. count yourself among the MANY in here. YOU came in swinging at me. you posted to me first, not me to you. you leveled all kinds of questions at me. i answered most, but let it die when YOU refused to come to the table on ONE i saked you. only ONE. you left, then came back. i commented on your musings, asking ONE MORE legitimate question, and you weren't man enough to possess personal integrity to answer it. ran from it. sad. i saw some potential in you that might have seperated you from the ppl in here that are only interested playing games. disappointing that you are pretty much the same. i like how ppl like you make so much demands of others, but YOU run when it's your turn. be that as it may, thats your "integrity" cross to bear in life. i do wish you well in life lee. but do get some more integrity in this matter. unlike some ppl in here, i know you FULLY realize there will be a "test" about this stuff when you stand before Christ "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 2:19 PM:

" lodian: wrong again. ppl pull out that "judge not, lest you be judged" card whenever they try to silence someone for telling the truth. you conveignetly forgot to "remember" both the last half of that verse "lest you be judged". i have NO PROBLEM being judged against the "judgement" i leveled at you. because i measure up to it. ppl like think now one can cast judgement against another persons actions or words. thats baloney. according to your "theology", there wouldn't (or couldn't) be a judicial system. Jesus busted ppl left and right for their sin. so did paul. your baloney about what God "says", is what i fight against in here. you and others are here to silence Gods authority, evidenced by your latest non-biblical "attempt". not going to happen. don't believe i'm right about the "interpretation" of that scripture? i'm cool with that. as long as you read THE REST OF THE ENSUING VERSES. you effectively "interpret" Gods word by considering EVERYTHING around it. read it lodian. ALL OF IT. it doesn't say that, nor ever has. what does the ensuing verses say? the verses underline "judicial" judgement. you do it, ONLY after you have "checked your own life". don't be a hypocrite about it. what i said about you, is true ....biblically. it still shows that when it comes to biblical things, you have no idea what your talking about, nor do you really care. hopefully for your OWN sake, that won't be "always" true about you Matthew 7 Judging Others 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:00 PM:

" Kurt Roberts' disrespectful comments sort of got lost in the mix with all the ramblings of "real facts" on this board. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 24, 2007 11:18 AM:

" real facts: It's all been said. And said very well by others here already. It's time for you to reflect and get a grip on reality....and maybe buy a personality or something. You are unreachable. Only God can help you now. Drink some eggnog (well maybe you've already done that) and rejoice in the Lord. Leave your petty hatred behind for at least one day in your life. Merry Christmas! "

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Lee wrote on Dec 24, 2007 11:13 AM:

" I just reread this article and I'm interested if any of you see what I see. Does Kurt Roberts really equate the horrific sexual abuse on children by Priests with homosexuality (calling it "sexual experimentation")? This would be in the third paragraph. Do we really need such hateful articles or commentary (whatever ya what to call it)? Can I get a column? Will there be an opposing viewpoint printed soon? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 24, 2007 8:45 AM:

" No, Brian, you mis-read my post again. Perhaps someone can read this one to you. What I said was - about 40% of my gay friends are fathers, not that 40% of my friends are gay. And, no, their wives conceived normally without having to resort to your turkey baster tecnique. Have you tried Viagra or Cialis? They may help you. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 24, 2007 8:41 AM:

" Hey, Reverend - one more and then I gotta go. You said I'm evil. How so? Do you know me? Do you know my actions? You're no better than that other nutbag Brian, who thinks the Greatest of all sins, the ULTIMATE ABOMINATION against Jesus is when some people say [according to Brian's fourth-hand account of the incident that may or may not have accually taken place] that Jesus was a homophobe. Did you get that? The ULTIMATE ABOMINATION. Not murder, no, no, murder is not the ultimate. Not abortion, nor incest. No. Not preventable starvation, not war, nor torture. Not corporate greed and thievery on a global scale, ALL of those things pale in comparison to people calling Jesus a homophobe. That, yes, well THAT is THE ULTIMATE ABOMINATION! And, to take his idiocy to the next level, it seems that you and Brian both spent an appreciable amount of time making the same claim. You both should rejoice in the glory of that revelation. But you have judged me to be evil. I can't tell you how much that grieves me. How blackened my already black heart is because I don't share the same over-wrought, made-for-TV, after-school-special dramatic overture that Brian portrays when talking about Jesus-shaped dildos. Niether of you two christians seem very good at reading, so we'll do it again. Have you ever heard of the ten commandments? No, wait, there are like four versions of them in the bible [that you can't make yourself say is the perfect work of God - and I don't blame you, I don't think so either]. Well, the version that says something about "No graven images". You know it? Do you remember hearing it? Does Brian know what Jesus looked like? Or does he, like a child, simply make free associations? Bearded man on cross in any form IS actually Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. There is no disconnect between a man-made image and the actual deity figure he worships. To him they are the same. His type run around kissing anything associated with religion, just because it is said to be sacred or holy. Anyway, I'm getting off track (my own free association), back to the dildo. Brian was outraged (ha!), OUTRAGED (ha ha!) that I didn't care if his deity was cast as a rubber sex toy. But just a quick note here - don't forget, a Jesus dildo is still not the ULTIMATE ABOMINATION, that title is reseved for people who call Jesus a homophobe. I asked if he was able to differentiate between a dildo and his King of Kings and, not surprisingly, he chose to continue with the dildo association. That was his call, not mine. And another thing about the two of you, what do you expect of achieve? Brian's goal is simple - his anti-American posts here are consistent, he wants our Republic replaced with Christo-Fascism. Oh, sure, he'll make insincere denials. But what he wants is for the governement to act, to move toward protecting his imagined Christ image. "Stop doing things with that image that outrage me" is his position. He wants the government to adopt his religion as the official one. I think it's safe to say Brian had no problem with the cartoons of Muhammad, you see, that's not his religion. No, he wants swift, powerful government action, maybe in the form of jack-booted troops, to sweep in and crush the free-enterprise pagans who mock his imagination, that threaten his dream. Don't forget - there was no victim in the "crime" that has Brian so "OUTRAGED", except in his imagination. He wants Leonard banned from this forum because Leonard so thoroughly out-classed him. He wants gays to just stop. Maybe even make being gay illegal. He wants them to stop doing what they do. He doesn't know why, just stop. What are they supposed to do? Shrivel up and die for all he cares, apparently. And you, too, reverend fakes. You're really quite the blowhard, aren't you? Demanding from others that which you refuse to accomplish while you dispense your judgements. Do you know why I post here, real fakes? To bug you. To expose you. To draw hateful, contemptuous demons like you out of your dark spider holes. To display you to the world like some sort of repulsive, primitive insect. To show how far you will go to harm your fellow man in order to charm your god. To exhibit you like a freak. You would gladly sacrifice anyone else so that you think your god will look kindly upon you, so you can climb on his lap and tell him what a good job you did doing his work, hoping he'll love you more than the others. This blog will expire, but there will be others. And I will post until there are no more hateful, religion-based bigoted blogs like this. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 8:18 AM:

" Billy, given that 40% of your male friends are gay and are fathers does this mean the surrogate mothers used turkey basters? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 24, 2007 7:17 AM:

" Hey, Reverend Flakey - is the bible the perfect work of God? Do you, yourself, live by it? Answer Ivan's post, christian. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:49 AM:

" ...and a child was born. Merry Christmas. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:47 AM:

" real facts: May God forgive you. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:47 AM:

" real facts: Again, You are bearing false witness against your neighbor. You do not seem to have an open heart so why should anyone continue to converse with you and tell you what they believe? Your way is to brow-beat people until they either leave the discussion or concede. Is that a true victory for you? I bet you think it is actually a victory. That's really sad. Are we not strong enough for you in our responses and how much grief we take from you? The meek shall inherit the Earth, right? Is your way of attacking other Christians really taught by Christ? All here have made their statements to you. Believe what you will. You do not discuss the topic, you just aim and shoot....no listening and conversing included. You talk "AT" people, not to them. Sharing ones faith and discussing their views is personal and precious. Most are as honest as they can be with what they know, understand and believe. I think many here have already given of themselves enough, where you are concerned. I don't think you deserve more. I hope God can give you the strength to be humble and wise one day as well as the ability to listen to other Christians that love God. I continue to learn everyday. You? Try not to close your heart. I have a feeling that, unfortunately, you are a very lonely man. A man that thinks he has loved ones that agree with him and respect him...when unbeknownst to you they are extremely disappointed and keep you in their prayers everyday. I think it is appropriate to close with this comment regarding your behavior towards others here, "One that thinks he knows it all, knows nothing. (reposted, as you chose to ignore it the first time around.) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:43 AM:

" Is that what Christ teaches? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:42 AM:

" condemn; to declare one to be guilty of wrongdoing (Yes, real facts, you have condemned many.) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:38 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:25 AM: " real facts said, "i am much too good at revealing your true motives". You're certainly good at revealing "your" motives")....i don't have any motives to hide. it's out there. 100% comfortable with it. i know it's righteous. i see you made posts, which means you had ample opportunity to answer my questions you so begged me to do. what happened to your stated over and over and over reasons for being here? i thought you said we should all be civil and interact like Christians should. what happened to that lodian? were you trying to make ppl believe that? you skated away from answering a respectable civil question i asked you. and you WILL totally skate away because you AREN'T in here for noble reasons. your just a game player. your motives aren't "godly". you made statements that now your not living up to. making yourself look foolish because you aren't answering my legitimate questions. you can post your bible verse all you want to "appear" you have good intentions. it's completely obvious now you don't. your a phony. type and lie to the bloggers about your intentions all you want. i showed who you really are. i am out of gas. going to bed. amuze yourself all night long about your "feigned" nobility. i will sleep like a baby while your talking to yourself. can i get anybody to chide this person into keeping her own promises? watch how many ppl line up for that one. chasing lies down is exhausting......but necessary. it's what i do. carry on lodian. yikes "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:25 AM:

" sam; read my 6:41pm post on the 23rd and respond. i don't want that buried in the "pile" "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:25 AM:

" real facts said, "i am much too good at revealing your true motives". You're certainly good at revealing "your" motives. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:19 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:06 AM:" real facts: Do your own homework"). people, look at the time date stamp. then look at my post to her directly below her timed post (1:06am). her above words in quotes were her only response to me. straight away chickened out of qualifying her statement at 12:39am. her words, not mine. she has begged me for days to have a civil conversation and debate. when i do, she completely runs away from it. lodian, you are exactly what i said about you. you cannot even keep your own words you promised about yourself. you lied about your integrity (again). face it, i am much too good at revealing your true motives. if you "had" been a person of character, and been here for the reasons YOU kept babbling on about, YOU would have answered my questions. your deluded about yourself "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:15 AM:

" real facts: Do your own homework. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:11 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:17 AM: Being gay is not a sin. Nowhere in the bible does it tell us that being gay is a sin. It tells us that rape is a sin, as are many other things like divorce and remarrying after a divorce, adultery and many more. The bible talks a lot about these sins, but nothing about homosexuality being a sin"). nothing huh lee? your sure about that? whats your take on the leviticus 20:13 ? how about romans 1:24-32. you sure know alot about what the bible does and doesn't say. i would like for you to tell me those verses don't talk about homosexual sex. how about this lee, what ARE they talking about? not many know about lucifer becoming satan. good one (sort of). it's good to have biblical "knowledge", but terrible when you think you can pick and choose what YOU want to believe about God AND his word. i am waiting ........ "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:06 AM:

" real facts: Do your own homework. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:02 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:39 AM: "Judge not, that ye be not judged"). where did you get that? national geographic? this is EXACTLY what i mean. first of all, you have no idea (in context) why Christ said that. second, it shows your rediculousness that you can trumpet Gods "word" when it serves YOUR purpose, but run completely away from any other scriptures just because you don't like them. that isn't only laughable, it's hypocritical. now let's se your biblical "accumen" by qualifying Jesus' statement. why did he say that? did that mean i can't call you a liar, when you consistently lie about something? you made the statement, now back it up. read the whole chapter around that verse and tell me once again that omits ANYONE from calling sin, sin. or better yet, a person a liar. do it and quit wussing out. demonstrate your "claimed" nobility "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 1:00 AM:

" "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the Earth" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:54 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:23 PM: real facts: The bible doesn't tell me that my husband shouldn't see my nakedness on a Tuesday at noon, so does that mean I should abstain from letting my husband see my nakedness at noon on any given Tuesday? You are ridiculous. You want me to show you a scripture where the bible gives anything of a notion that homosexuality is OK, yet you will not show me scripture where it is forbidden to be a homosexual. How do you account for such hypocrisy in your demands"). actually, YOUR rediculous. thats an intellectually dishonest a statement that you have made thus far. but a self indicting one. your words in here show you lied. i went as far as copying and pasting a whole portion of romans 1. you read it, and you lied that it didn't say it. didn't even TRY and debate what it's supposed to mean if you disagree with it. you are a liar. if you weren't, you wouldn't have said that, AND you would have debated that portion of romans. it says it, you just don't like it. you could possibly get away with saying that if you were blind or couldn't read english. you did and lied about it. i don't "argue" against obscure issues. ones that are plain, that consistently appear thruought the entirety of scripture, that read just as it says....yep. those are slam dunks. you lied. but, it's your life, not mine. you don't get it. the ONLY reason i even answer your posts is to use you for the opportunity YOU provide me to tell what Gods word actually Does say. congradualations. God is using you (but not for what you think he is). where's your condemnation of billy rubins words? you love Christ right? baloney. a mile high stack of baloney has accumulated in this blog "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:39 AM:

" "Judge not, that ye be not judged" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:39 AM:

" billy rubin said; ("So why don't you stand up like a real, thinking human male and take responsibility for your own claims instead of hiding behind a 5,000+ year old story book")> ohhhh. licking my chops on that one. i think you spoke a half-truth there dan. gotta high five you for the half truth after i chase your lying drivel around for a year now. your half of the truth ...the bible HAS been around a long long time billy rubin. longer than any book in the history of man. wanna challenge that statement? wanna challenge me on whether or not its because of God, and not "man" it's been around FOR that long? come on billy, i got this one. you will give me more opportunity to build the faith of the believers in here by demonstrating that it was? can we debate it billy? your here because your a good human being with altruistic good intentions aren't you? i won't say anything about your chosen lifestyle, i promise "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:25 AM:

" lodian said; ("Is your way of attacking other Christians really taught by Christ'?). i don't attack Christians. i do attack the integrity of ppl claimimg to be "Christians", but aren't. i attack that integrity to demonstrate they aren't who they claim to be, so they can't lie about anything pertaining either to Gods word, his nature or his character. i make sure ppl like you can't teach others that they can shun Gods authority. you committed all three. that demonstrates your an "ain't". does God approve of me saying that to you? absolutely 100%. it's biblically true. it's completely different if ppl are ignorant of Gods word. i would NEVER say that to a person in that category. wouldn't need to. you aren't. you specifically know, and you specifically don't care anything about the truths of God, otherwise you wouldn't demonstrate consistently in here that you don't. your words don't match your claims. i have absolutely no problem telling you, you are not a Christian. you believe "some" of Christ's teachings, maybe even incorporating "some" of them into your life. but you have 100% consistently seperated yourself from the LORDSHIP (authority) of Christ in here. that is an "ain't" , not a "saint". the deciding factor of who is/isn't a "Christian", is totally 100% based around whether that person has placed his/her life under the authority of Christ. in here, you failed that "test". delude yourself until the day you die, or place yourself completely under the authority of Christ. until then, your claims don't match your words. i proved you were an "ain't" (and still will because you won't) when you read my posts about billy rubin and YOU didn't condemn his trashing YOUR "lord". your a phony "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:06 AM:

" real facts: I'll pray for you. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:03 AM:

" leonard; your rediculous un-biblical claim that Christ came with a new covenant that excluded calling homosexual sex sin, can be rectified by you by you showing (biblically) that Jesus abolished anything dealing with sin. especially sexual sin. shoot, use heyerosexual sin as your "base". i don't care. he came to fullfill the law, thus dispensing the new covenant of grace and mercy based relationship with God by doing away with the salvation by works 'angle'. thats true. new covenant YES. sin is still sin. let's see your biblical intellectual "syntax" at work. did Jesus address sexual sin or not? what "sins" of a sexual nature was he talking about? YOU claim you know. get help from all the other biblical experts if you can. i will bet he slithers away from this one because he knows i have him. NO ONE in here will address this one either. because no one in here can. any takers? leonard, you won't skate away from this one ...i promise you that. i will bump this post to prove you have no idea what your talking about, nor can you biblically defend your position. or you could prove me wrong. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 24, 2007 12:03 AM:

" real facts: Again, You are bearing false witness against your neighbor. You do not seem to have an open heart so why should anyone continue to converse with you and tell you what they believe? Your way is to brow-beat people until they either leave the discussion or concede. Is that a true victory for you? I bet you think it is actually a victory. That's really sad. Are we not strong enough for you in our responses and how much grief we take from you? The meek shall inherit the Earth, right? Is your way of attacking other Christians really taught by Christ? All here have made their statements to you. Believe what you will. You do not discuss the topic, you just aim and shoot....no listening and conversing included. You talk "AT" people, not to them. Sharing ones faith and discussing their views is personal and precious. Most are as honest as they can be with what they know, understand and believe. I think many here have already given of themselves enough, where you are concerned. I don't think you deserve more. I hope God can give you the strength to be humble and wise one day as well as the ability to listen to other Christians that love God. I continue to learn everyday. You? Try not to close your heart. I have a feeling that, unfortunately, you are a very lonely man. A man that thinks he has loved ones that agree with him and respect him...when unbeknownst to you they are extremely disappointed and keep you in their prayers everyday. I think it is appropriate to close with this comment regarding your behavior towards others here, "One that thinks he knows it all, knows nothing". "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:52 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:14 PM: " RF: Christ established a New Covenant that replaced the outdated OT mandates to burn preacher's daughters and persecute homosexuals. Love replaced Hate and Peace replaced Violence. I don't know how I can be any clearer than that"). thats another one of your lies. so now because there is a new covenant, that Jesus Christ never aknoweledged sin? thats a crock, and an intellectual cop out. doesn't even make sense, let alone biblical sense. what lengths you will go to, to skate from answering my question, and from calling sin, sin. according to your own words, Christ "never" called out sexual immorality because of the "new covenant". wow is your position twisted in knots now? your now speaking out of both sides of your mouth. is it humanly posible to speak from three sides of your mouth? your headed there for sure. now not only did you NOT answer what the biblical definition of sexual immorality is, your above statement claims he never said it or dealt with it. it really would be better if you just hid until this blog disappears. you can't cover your original lies. and now your making up new ones. you have to, because your position is built on them. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:42 PM:

" dan the troll; you should be mad at your partner in crime for wussing out. ivan went strangely missing. what happened to him? he comes to the LNS and posts his letters about atheism, then runs and hides. tell you what, how about YOU ask me those questions in the next round of blogs that give that opportunity? be glad to do that dance with you. begged you to try in the discussion board for weeks. you completely wussed out and ran and hid after threatening to do so. i am not afraid of ivan trixon. that dude makes you look like a wimp inteelectually as far as the bible goes. you kick the sand around acting all "tough". that guy can play in the major leagues. i will take on tht guy, and anyone else you can saddle up. i give you my word as a man, i PROMISE YOU that i will do that dance with you in the next blog. ivan chickened out. now lets see what a man and integrity giant you are, if i discuss it with you, will you not run and hide and defend your position? stay the whole course and defend "intellectually" your position. i have witnessed you blow smoke, but have NEVER seen YOU debate any thing regarding Christ and Christianity. deal, or wuss again. or you can hide behind trixon and get him back in here to do your dirty work if you can't? i won't let trixon off that hook for nothing. you think i am afraid of defending my position? think again. watch the little troll either skate from here on this one, or when i catch him in the next blog "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:30 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:24 PM: Brian: The radical Christians concern me more than any radical gay person"). glad you said that. shows your true colors in your OWN words. i love how you "claim" to be a "Christian", but align yourself with ANYBODY 180 degree's opposite of your Lord WHEN they are unrepentant, and shun Gods authority, and are extremely vehemet against the one you claim to love. you respect those ppl above your "bretheren"? another self indictment where it's obvious your claims don't match your words. i was especially delighted when you highlighted the fact about "radical gays". i would have chided you for just aligining yourself with ppl that are gay, and could care less about God. but "radical gays". wow. you don't see your own hypocrisy? it's been obvious to me for days "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:27 PM:

" Another weekend gone and Rev Fakes was unable to make himself address Ivan's post, but he had time to cheer for father/daughter incest, mother/son incest, brother-on-sister action, polygamy, rape, murder... all the fine Christian activities he approves of. As long as it's not gay. And Brian, about 40% of my gay friends are fathers. Throws a wrench in your proof, doesn't it? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:20 PM:

" ("Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:56 PM: Now you run along and worship your rubber Jesus dildo [you did, after given the choice of dildo or King of Kings, decide he was a dildo], I have Christmas shopping to do"). dan is not evil huh? how evil do you "Christians" need a person to be, before you defend against the one you claim to "love"? nothing? you pick ppl over Christ. your all afraid to be "unpopular" and not cause waves. baloney. your integrity in this matter is on the bottom rung. you wouldn't let ppl talk to your dog this way. all the "Christians" give this little troll a free pass. look at his words. he desecrated YOUR Lord. thats as evil as it gets. you ppl don't stand for what you claim. if you did, you would pull him back in line by busting his chops (like you do mine), or run him out of here. sam, what did your husband say about me when he read that blog that made you both mad? something about defending your honor i bet? loves you doesn't he. defends that love. proved he loved you BY ACTING THAT WAY. you love Christ (or so you claim)....nothing for your "Lord"? Jesus Christ died for you. dan would rip your faith from your heart if he could. now what. your the only one that might have integrity in this issue. the rest are fooling themselves that they do, and won't say a thing. that puts everyone else firmly in the same "philisophical bed" as he is. you don't condemn evil, you allow evil to flourish, you DO NOT honor God and his standards. that is as true a statement as i have made in here. who is a true sheep, and who is a true goat? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:03 PM:

" dan said; ("Just to please the likes of hateful gay basher Brian and nutty as a fruit cake gay-boy-cruising Real Flakey"). can't wait for all the ppl in here that "love Jesus" to line up to condemn dans statement. you know, all the ppl that "claim" integrity? i guess integrity for them is only relative. thats called selective integrity. another thing God is not happy about. you call sin, sin. when you know it's nothing but pure evil, you call it that, or don't call yourself a true person of integrity. integrity doen't give a free pass for evil. it isolates it, calls it out. how about this...show me ONE time dan the roll EVER made ONE post in here to "discuss" the issue? how about NEVER. not once. not EVER. not in one year. he's a troll. a little boulder on his shoulder trouble causing troll. here's another "mirror" that whats taken place in here is that ppl in here don't have integrity, not when it comes to this issue anyways. the guy purposefully lies about brians and my character, and you ppl stand there and laugh. thats right, laugh. you should all high five yourself that "dan" the evil little troll is your hero AND your mirror for integrity. let's see who busts his chops for the lying "non-contributing-in a loving way" troll. you ppl couldn't be consistent in your integrity if your life was bet on it. it's completely hypocritical to bust my chops, and not censure this guy too. that is integrity 101. unfortuntely, you ppl suffer from "selective integrity". thanks for your help dan "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:44 PM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:11 AM: Rape is condemned, not homosexuality. Consensual homosexual activities... loving, committed, same-sex relationships are not condemned in the bible"). now we have another expert in biblical "understanding". ok lee, show me ONE scripture that OK's homosexual "loving, committed" relationships. thats good by me. instead of the rape lie ppl trumpet out about the fact that "part" of sodoms destruction was based on sexual immorality, show me ONE scripture that talks about "loving" homsexual relationships. i would TOTALLY accept that one. your right, fornication (having sex "pre/post-marriage IS biblically forbidden, even for heterosexuals. now you have the golden get out of jail free card. where does it say it. i don't know everything. will spend the rest of my life learning about God. so, i might have missed it. you claim you know what the bible say, SHOW IT. all the other would be bible scholars couldn't. how about you? you CANNOT make a statement about Gods word just because you like it. you have to qualify that statement BIBLICALLY. then you can explain why whenever the bible does reference it, it's always negative? it's not a difference of opinion anymore in here. it's the hit parade of ppl that cannot qualify thier "claims" against Gods word. you wanna try? maybe your motivated by $$$$. $100 if you can show me ONE scripture that says loving committed homosexual relationships are ok. are you better knowledge wise at this stuff than the rest? they failed. they need you to seal the deal. don't you dare walk away from this one. you come in here and made "biblical" claims, you need to qualify that, and prove I AM THE LIAR. how can you resist the two for one deal like that? what a moral victory that would be for the ppl here "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:24 PM:

" Sam, My daughter is doing fine. She was 1 in July. And toddling everywhere now. I guess this just about throws a wrench in Billy Rubin's theory that I am gay. I won't go any farther than that with my comments about him. He's foamed at the mouth to the point where I wonder if that keyboard of his is still functioning. Merry Christmas Sam :) "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 7:00 PM:

" I don't get it. The whole basis for Real Fakes and Brian's homophobia is rooted in the old testament but both are apparently lying when they say they don't want OT law here. They either do or they don't. Real Fakes can't even make himself say he believes the bible, but he wants others to live in some sort of theater of the macabre, fulfilling his biblical sexual needs for him. Brian keeps throwing his hands in the air claiming he doesn't know why he hates gays, but he just does, that's all. And Michael Weiner Savage told him to. Double standard. Hypocrisy. Liars. So now, based on their biblical Christian hate, they want all the gays of the world to either live lonely lives devoid of love and companionship, or live a lie, lying to a dupe of a spouse, trying to appear "straight" or be killed in the most dignified biblical fashion. Just to please the likes of hateful gay basher Brian and nutty as a fruit cake gay-boy-cruising Real Flakey. Given that Brian is a Catholic and an estimated 70-90% of Catholic clergy is gay, maybe Brian wants us all to be priests. Well, that's something, we can't all be televangelists or politicians. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:41 PM:

" ("sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:57 AM: RF: 1:48 am. I am glad to hear that you do not hate people"). tell that to lodian then. tell her that i don't hate anybody...just whatever sin they purposefully commit. any sin in any other arena of life. i can't stand it that i friend of mine just left his wife for a younger woman. rake him over the colas for that one. completely 100% equal opportunity sin hater. love ppl tho. root for them to succeed. i don't "condemn" pll. i condemn sin...equally. everyone thinks this a gay thing. ppl that hate gays, don't have gay friends. what about you sam, does the bible say homosexual sex is sin? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:35 PM:

" Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:20 PM: (" real facts: No, I do not agree that this passage tells us to forsake a gay person. Nor does it tell us that being gay in itself is immoral or a sin. Does your bible capitalize certain words like that? Also, YOUR interpretation is not one that I agree with. You are coming to conclusions that have not been stated. That's the truth, friend, and not a lie"). your just straight up weird now. you read that i purposefully "capitalized" that part, and you asked me that question? whats wrong with you? can't address the facts so you fill your posts with other "lies"? i NEVER SAID TO FORSAKE ANY GAY PERSON, OR ANY OTHER PERSON ON THIS PLANET, no matter who they are or what they are "into". DON'T YOU DARE LIE ABOUT THAT !!!!!. you straight up lied that passage doesn't call sexual relations between a man and a man, and between a woman and a woman. says it right there in plain english. only a person that lies has to say it doesn't. you may not like or agree with it, but it says it. i told the reading audience your a liar. proved it. you can't lie when the evidence is right in your face. conclusions? the conclusion is clear. it mentions homosexual sex as a PERVERSION. what "is" biblical perversion lodian? you can't answer that, without admitting it. anyway, your deluded. when you lie about what you know i DID say, and what something else says right in front of your face, there is no dealing with a deluded person. it's your soul to lose. talk to yourself, or lie some more. i have to switch my aim to other ppl so i can answer them. i proved who you are and why your in here. from here on out, your a complete waste of time. say what you want about me. it only furthers your self indictment. i will only address your comments, should you repent of your lying habits. (or i need to counter more of your mis-directional, God-excusing away drivel). it wasn't a complete waste of time. you helped to make ppl more guilty before God. BECAUSE OF YOU, THEY KNOW NOW "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:23 PM:

" I am serving dinner now so I must go. Merry Christmas to all. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:23 PM:

" real facts: Refer to my 6:20 PM post. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:20 PM:

" for some reason, it wouldn't post all of the post. here's the rest. now what lodian? it's not talking about homosexual sex? 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:20 PM:

" real facts: No, I do not agree that this passage tells us to forsake a gay person. Nor does it tell us that being gay in itself is immoral or a sin. Does your bible capitalize certain words like that? Also, YOUR interpretation is not one that I agree with. You are coming to conclusions that have not been stated. That's the truth, friend, and not a lie. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:15 PM:

" lucius: real facts ignored us all a long time ago when we tried to bring up other topics. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:13 PM:

" real facts: "it's the bible. not national geographic, lodian". Again, with the condescending posts. WWJD, real facts? Do you have a kind bone in your body, real facts? "

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lucius wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:12 PM:

" Why aren't we talking about masturbation? I have same gender sex all the time. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:11 PM:

" real facts: "talk to yourself for awhile". Is this your way of skirting the issue and actually responding to my post with real answers and not ramblings? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:11 PM:

" the part about homosexual sex, i capitalized it just to make leonard mad... romans chapter 1 (it's the bible. not national geographic, lodian) 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to SEXUAL IMPURITY for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a LIE, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for UNNATURAL ones. 27 IN THE SAME WAY THE MEN ALSO ABANDONED NATURAL RELATIONS (relations = sex. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:09 PM:

" real facts: 100? Again with wanting money from me? What's with all that? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 6:07 PM:

" real facts: So, in your view, you do not think it is attacking me when you call me names and accuse me of purposely lying? You attacked my character and stated lies about me personally.....and you think that is okay? Where are your Christian values? You latch on to this one topic, and chastise everyone that disagrees with you, yet you are committing sins all over the place in the process. How is that being a Christian? Are you going to personally attack my character and integrity again? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:57 PM:

" real facts: You continue to misquote me and verbally attack me with the name calling. A liar is someone that intends to deceive. I have never posted any kind of lie here at all. I speak the truth. You are posting lies constantly about me and my character, integrity, values, morals, ethics and Christianity. Your "rebuttals" (I'm be kind here in calling them just a rebuttal) in these disagreements are always based in discrediting the poster with deep hurtful personal attacks. I am a child of God. I am honest, loving and sincere. Have I sinned? Of course. You are bearing false witness against your neighbor. Are you a Christian? If so, then you should know that this is a sin. It is clearly stated in the Ten Commandments. Do you think it is okay to break a commandment to belittle a fellow Christian in what they believe to be the word of God? "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:51 PM:

" Brian, you said "Gays, in general, mind their own business." I agree. By the way, Merry Christmas to you. How is that little girl doing???? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:48 PM:

" OK lodian, you forced my hand. i waited and waited and waited for someone to show some character in this matter. NO ONE stepped to the plate to say that it really does, EVEN though they might not agree with it. that shows alone in here that aside from brian and neo, there is not one person in here that is willing to prove they are intellectually honest and disregard thier prejudices, and tell the truth that it actually DOES say that. NOT ONE. so here goes... i am going to copy and paste the EXACT words staright from the bible. to keep intellectually honest to the context, i will include ECRYTHING around it. both before and after those particular passages. that way you can't ever wander around and here and lie about it again. when those words appear on this blog, it will either demonstrate that you are deluded, or a liar. take solace. at least you don't lie as bad as the phony billy rubin. that guys says Jesus Christ never even existed, never even lived. you have to lie that bad, your heart is black. your on your way there lodian if you maintain your current course. it's the natural conclusion to willfully excluding God, by purposefully lying about it. pay me $100 if it's true? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:46 PM:

" real facts: "if you can't play this game right, please talk to yourself for awhile". That's just it. You think this is all a game. What do you think God thinks of that? You do not want to address me because you know I have a good point. You skirt the issue that God has not forsaken homosexuals. Also, I haven't quoted scriptures. What scriptures do you think I quoted? I think you are a little mixed up. Since I don't talk in circles, with jumbled ramblings (pages and pages long) you seem to have a hard time conversing with me with any kind of understanding.....any give and take. Again.....you have not addressed or answered my question. Why? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:38 PM:

" real facts said, "i am an expert in copy and pasting". I think we all know that by now....yet we still stand behind our words. What does that tell you? I'll answer that for you. It means we are being honest, forthright and sincere in our beliefs. Even if we are unsure of any particular scripture/verse/passage we honestly try our best as Christians to speak of things as Christians and not be hateful to our fellow man for simply disagreeing. You are not above me, and I am not above you. Do you believe that? You are not superior to me because you "think" you know more than I do or that you "think" you understand the word of God more than I. Do you agree with that? Feathers do get ruffled when one is constantly called names and verbally attacked for merely addressing the issue with ones own beliefs, concerns and understanding. Maybe a real discussion on this topic could have be had if all the "hate" ( I call it hate when someone verbally attacks me and calls me names for merely disagreeing and having a point of view). I didn't just get my views from a Cracker Jack box yesterday ya know. I have done years of homework and that doesn't mean for one second that I still do not have questions. Most human beings do. The one that thinks he has all the answers, has no answers at all. I am a child of God that will be learning for the rest of my life. And you? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:37 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:27 PM: real facts: The interesting thing is that I did in fact answer your question regarding the scripture you present as God forbidding homosexuality, but you discarded it"). you answered the question all right, you lied about it. thats all i did was call you on lying about it's content. true statement. YOU said it doesn't say "ANYTHING" in the bible about homosexual sex and sin> thats a lie. so yes, you answered THAT question. the question you DIDN'T answer, is the one where i asked you to show me ONE scripture that OK's homosexual sex. you took a long road trip around that one for days. don't you realize the shortest distance to a destination is in a straight line? not rediculous rambling posts and denials for days about shunning personal responsibility. answer the question. you post bible passages and claim you know what the bible says and doesn't say. should be cake. i got more important things to do with my time then to chase your posts around for nothing. i have to address other ppl's posts. if you can't play this game right, please talk to yourself for awhile "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:28 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:43 PM: " I think real facts would like us to "revert back to the times of the old testament"). no. heck no. trying to be righteous before God just because man beame arrogant before God and insisted he could become righteous by their "works". heck no. homosexual sex or ANY sin that God says is sin, is current for today. no living in the sand for me. i love my satellite TV. you can thank the would be God-killer ivan dixon for slithering back under that rock he lives under, so now i can't explain the difference between sin and eating shellfish. ivan reads this stuff, trust me. just like in his letters to the LNS, he's a complete wuss. graduated summa dum blowhard from wuss university. hits and runs his would be God-killing diatrip's there too. never comes to debate, just to destroy. not on my watch he won't. i take out the "trash"....gladly. what? i shouldn't hate evil? i should be "nice" to evil. you ppl can be nice to evil. i never will "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:27 PM:

" real facts: The interesting thing is that I did in fact answer your question regarding the scripture you present as God forbidding homosexuality, but you discarded it. I guess you don't like to hear the truth. You just perpetuate lies. God is telling you that he has not forsaken homosexuals and you are not seeing the truth. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:22 PM:

" real facts: The bible doesn't tell me that my husband shouldn't see my nakedness on a Tuesday at noon, so does that mean I should abstain from letting my husband see my nakedness at noon on any given Tuesday? You are ridiculous. You want me to show you a scripture where the bible gives anything of a notion that homosexuality is OK, yet you will not show me scripture where it is forbidden to be a homosexual. How do you account for such hypocrisy in your demands? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:18 PM:

" lodian; you say i "attack" you? were did i do that? i would like to apologize to you if i did something outside the realm of how a Christian should act. make sure before you tell me, that you are 100% sure you didn't attack me. everything is archived in here, and i am an expert in copy and pasting your owns words that will demonstrate what you really said. now if i said something that was true about you, thats on you. don't confuse blunt truthfulness with attacking someone. there is a HUGE integrity difference. qualify your words aagainst me by copy and pasting my words against me. you see how i don't accuse ppl of behavior i can't qualify? EVERYTIME i did, i copy and pasted thier own words. you are what i said about you. you ran away from everything i asked you to do, that would demonstrate that you are a person of character. and you will run from my above challenge to extricate yourself, and turn it into some crying fest about "real facts is so mean". if i am, prove it. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:08 PM:

" brian: leonard can spit hairs for all i care, still not impressive. i asked ANYONE days ago to show me ONE scripture where the bible gives ANYTHING of a notion that homosexuality is OK? dead silnce for days from these ppl. oh they don't hesitate to pull srciptures out of thier "back pocket" when THEY want to defend thier position, against you. they are "biblical scholars" then. have heard nothing in days. not even from the self appointed king of them all, leonard. leonard nevers lacks resourefulness. guys knows alot about alot of things, just ask him. not afraid to make things up if he needs to support his position when he gets in desperate mode. paint him in a corner, he will twist your words faster than an f5. the guy "knows". NOTHING FROM HIM. why is that? because there isn't any. there is not ONE hint of homosexuality in the whole entire bible that says it's ok. none. every time (without interpretation issues), everytime homosexuality is mentioned, it's condemned. everytime. when did it become "OK"? after the new covenant? sin become "cool" when Jesus fullfiled the law by becoming sin, and turned the way we are righteous before God from one of "works", into one of grace and acceptance? sin is still sin. there is and never will be a free pass to sin. you struggle with sin (like we ALL do), big difference. you willfully sin. thats trouble. $100 to any person who can show me ONE scripture that says homosexuality is BIBLICALLY ok, and another $100 to anybody who can seperate homosexual sex from the biblical definition of sexual immorality. these little challenges prove 100% that i am right. with all the would be "bible experts" and the ones who want nothing more in life than to shut me up, if there "were" those passages, and homosexual sex "was" cool, you would have a line around the block looking to collect. were not dealing with un-informed ppl in here, or non resoursceful ppl. intelligence is highly overated and means zip if you exclude God, but that isn't an issue either. what we are dealing with is ppl that lie. they know what it says and what it doesn't say....they just won't admit it. they can't. because if they do, then they know they are guilty before God via thier own choices about him and where he belongs in thier life "AUTHORITY WISE". it's always 100% of the time an issue of authority. "i love you God, but don't tell me what to think, feel and choose". thats the truth about them. thats why they lie. there is no other way to put it, the lie. you lie consistently, by definition, that makes you a liar. not pretty. no one likes that moniker. but "if" it's true, it's true. anybody want to step up and score an easy $200? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 5:01 PM:

" real facts: Do you hate yourself? Have you had bouts with depression? Have you contemplated suicide? I am being serious, not flip. I'm concerned about you, seriously! You seem like someone that is disturbed and in need of help and guidance. One would think that someone like you, that says he reads the bible, would be full of love and brotherhood...especially at this time of the year. Why do you personally attack me so much? You have a hair trigger for verbal abuse. How can anyone have an adult conversation with someone like that? All you are doing is trying to shut people down and NOT "listen" or "hear" what they have to say. Why is that? Have I shown you the mirror yet? WWJD "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:52 PM:

" real facts: You talk way too much about yourself and what you do for and to others to make them do this or do that. You take credit for the things you agree with in others and condemn others when they simply disagree with you. Why don't you actually address this topic? If you want someone to answer your questions then you must do so as well. You go so far off topic that no one knows what you are talking about. You think too highly of yourself. Modesty is a virtue. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:51 PM:

" real facts: You talk way too much about yourself and what you do for and to other to make them do this or do that. You take credit for the things you agree with in others and condemn others when they simply disagree with you. Why don't you actually address this topic? If you want someone to answer your questions then you must do so as well. You go so far off topic that no one knows what you are talking about. You think to highly of yourself. Modesty is a virtue. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:46 PM:

" I have to say, I sort of miss the 100 word limit on the blogs. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:45 PM:

" Oh Lord, he's back. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:45 PM:

" Brian: When you say that you disagree with the gay lifestyle... is it like saying that you don't agree that I should marry a younger man? Is it that you just don't like the idea, but don't actually think it is morally wrong? Please explain. I'm trying to understand your position, but I am getting mixed messages. Maybe you aren't really sure. No shame in that as many continue to try and understand God's word. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:42 PM:

" lodian; when ppl disagree with me "when" they are displaying proper intentions and not playing games, i am more than civil. when ppl blatanty lie, and are here just to discredit God, i take them to task in the most blunt way i can, and still maintain my integrity. i do it because very few ppl will, and to demonstrate the seriuosness of the issue. i asked you several times now and you refused to do it ..where did i ever not tell the truth about somebody? what specific post? you ran away from that one. just because you are what i have said you are in here, doesn't mean it's not true or "hateful". if you don't like the truth about yourself, you can either change the way you think, talk and act about the things of God. or you can live a partially deluded life. it's your life. i just held up the mirror. purposefully lying about what God does/doesn't say in his word is nasty behavior. you think you can stroll around unabated and expect no one to take you to task over it, and walk away because we "disagree"? you lied about my character in here, and think thats OK? you chide me for things that YOU have said and done to me. a liar AND a hypocrite. your no innocent little lamb in your comparisons of what i have said just to you alone. thats joke. you are deluded if you think that. Jesus himself NEVER did that. he called sin, sin. and he wasn't "nice" to those whose pupose it was to strip God of his authority. Jesus loved and engaged in alot of philisophical debates with ppl that either didn't believe at all, or were spiritually "ignorant" of certain issues. he lovingly guided them WHEN their intentions were PURE. the ones that PURPOSEFULLY lied, those ppl got a tongue lashing from Christ. he told them they were going to hell. ever see me say that in here? nope. my game is truth, blunt truth. Just like Christ, and just like paul. you think i make this stuff up? read it yourself (you won't cause your lazy and you really don't care). now thats the truth. it's not hateful or arrogant. it's the truth about you, and most everyone else in here. ask leonard. leonard claims this big symbiosis with the "gospels". knows alot about them (he thinks). ask him how Christ treated those who purposefully lied. you and your latest cohort in lying about what the bible says, the latest one to jump on the lying bus (lee), get him to ask leonard. your just mad because someone possess' the nerve to tell you a blunt truth about your life. i would have respected you had you said "it says it, but i don't agree thats what it means". that at least shows some sort of humanity. but when you purposefully lie about Gods word, your going to get taken to task for it, so no one in here will get the idea in thier head that you can lie and exclude Gods word, so you can do whatever you want. what you said about God and his word when you lie about it ...is evil. it's not "disagreeing". if a passage is ambiguos, big difference. you "might" be able to feign that you cnnot tell for sure. when it says it unequivocally without "interpretation" issues, your a straight up liar. intellectually honest disagreements, love that stuff. im cool with that. not my job to open ppl's eyes to the truth. thats Gods job description. i just feed God info to chew on. lie about it, you saked for a different game than that. thats on you, your just used to Christians not defending the integrity of Gods word, just being warm and fuzzy. purposefully lie about Gods word to deceive ppl about its' authority, i won't let that happen. thats my job description. i do it well without conscience problems. it's your fault you purposely lie, not mine "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:40 PM:

" Brian: You too said that you don't believe that Jesus actually condemned homosexuality. Right? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:39 PM:

" Brian(4:35 PM): I just thought is was odd that all of the sudden there was a repost by real facts. Anyway... "

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brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:35 PM:

" I only post as Brian. It was only Leonard that implied that I was posting under AKA's "

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brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:33 PM:

" Lodian, Leonard started the whole argument that Jesus never actually condemned homosexuality. I do disagree with gay lifestyles. Leonard's splitting hairs saying that Jesus never condemned homosexuality goes against every other condemnation of immoral acts. That said, I find it hard to believe if Jesus were to come back today he would not condemn homosexuality. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:23 PM:

" Maybe Brian and real facts went golfing together. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:19 PM:

" Brian: Are you posting as real facts? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:18 PM:

" real facts: Why did you repost your comment again at 4:05pm. You made this comment at 11am and I thought you were off golfing. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:13 PM:

" Brian: You said that "Jesus condemned immorality. The fact that he didn't specifically condemn homosexuality is unsure to me. All I know is he did condemn acts of immorality." Does this mean that you do not believe that homosexuals are condemned just because they are homosexuals? I'm confused by what you are saying because in another posting you said that "I disagree with gay lifestyles". My other question to you is, why do you "disagree with gay lifestyles"? Can you please clarify your position? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:05 PM:

" i will catch lee when i get back from playing golf. that lie he made about the bible not saying anything about homosexuality, it's a lie. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 4:00 PM:

" Brian: real facts is verbally abusive over a topic of conversation where others disagree with him...they simply disagree. And he gets furious, calling people names and attacking them. I can only imagine his actions if we were all discussing this in person. I would be fearful of violence from this person who calls himself real facts. His verbiage is enough of a warning to not address him in person. Perhaps that is the way he likes it. I personally think he has some serious personal issues because he has a really hard time communicating at a rational level. But, anyway.... "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:56 PM:

" Brian: "It's bad enough their is homosexuality". Why? Please explain? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:55 PM:

" Brian: I don't recall calling you a homophobe? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:54 PM:

" Brian: Are you telling me that you do not believe that there are any radical Christians in the world today? So, you do not believe that there are Christians (self-proclaimed) that oppose homosexuality and that are dangerous enough to where they would kill a homosexual? Have you read the news? Maybe you should talk to the friend of yours that is gay and maybe he/she can shed some light on how they are treated, threatened and ridiculed....even fearing for their safety. Do you condone this treatment of gay people? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:53 PM:

" Lodian, I doubt Real Facts feels that way. He wishes no harm to be bestowed upon anyone. I'm sure he makes exception to the Islamic terrorists. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:49 PM:

" Lodian, Likewise, don't put words in my mouth. The subject matter here is homosexuality. I'm sorry, It's bad enough their is homosexuality at all. I can live with the fact that humans are born into sin. But to perpetuate it like gays do? I'm sure many gays are fine people. Let's be clear, I stand my ground. I respectfully disagee with anyone who calls me a homophobe because I disagree with gay lifestyles. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:49 PM:

" Oh...I get it now...The View...Rosie. That's not a program/person I get any information from, sorry. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:44 PM:

" Brian: I guess you missed my point. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:43 PM:

" I think real facts would like us to "revert back to the times of the old testament". "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:43 PM:

" Who is Rosie? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:41 PM:

" Lodian, Radical Christians? I thought Air America went bankrupt. Oh, we have the View left. You got that from Rosie, right? The likeliness that we will revert back to the times of the old testament is highly unlikely. It's much more likely that this country will be under Sharia Law. Either of them happening is remote. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:40 PM:

" Brian: Don't put words in my mouth. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:39 PM:

" Just as there are only "some" Christians that take their hate for homosexuals to violence, you must see that there are only "some" gay people that take their behavior to the extreme. But, aren't there extreme's in everything that we all would not approve of in this world? The fact that homosexuals are not forsaken, or said to be immoral, in the bible should be something all Christians know and learn. There are so many other things in the bible said to be immoral and forbidden that one could address rather than a non-existent word that gays are immoral. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:28 PM:

" Lodian, That said, then you must feel I only consider him as a radio personality and not the author of 4 political best selling books. Not to mention his many books on natural healing or his 2 master degrees and 1 phd. Quite the contrary, I'm not that superficial. Next thing you're going to tell me is not listen to Prager or Medved. I dig a little deep than their radio personality. Maybe you should too before you jump to conclusions that these men hide behind the microphone and have nothing more to offer. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:23 PM:

" Brian: The radical Christians concern me more than any radical gay person. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:19 PM:

" Brian: Be careful in being the follower of a radio personality. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 3:08 PM:

" Lodian, I echo many of your sentiments. As I do real facts. I don't buy the notion that people who disagree with gays to the point that they might murder them homophobes. This whole phobia thing is an invention of liberals and I find it quite childish. The isolated incidents you speak of are just that. Gays, in general, mind their own business. It's the radical ones that make me upset. Merry Christmas to you. I'm not the person Billy makes me out to be. And I'm proud to be a follower of the Savage Nation. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:56 PM:

" Billy, my sentimentments for gays existed long before I even knew who Savage was. I have no intention of trying to get you kicked off this blog. It seems to me and the others it's quite clear you are doing a good job of eventually getting yourself kicked off. Billy, we need good dialogue on this issue. It seems to me you want me to bow down to you and give in. I wish you wouldn't imply that because I'm not implying it for you. I'm perfectly capable of composing my own thoughts. My thoughts and opinions are based on the way I was raised and the way I view life. Now, you're going to have to wage your assault on many more who view things the same as me. Please try to keep your posts at least somewhat civil. Your kneejerk reactions have a lot ot say about what type of person you are. "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:49 PM:

" Thanks Lodian. Glad you enjoyed it ! "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:47 PM:

" RF: Dec 23, 2007 11:38 AM: Glad you liked them. I shared several quotes with my kids today. Both are in their 30's and t's the season for stress and depression. I shared yours too Ernie. Thanks! (My daughter LOVED it. I am framing it for both of them !) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:47 PM:

" Brian: Are you still behind the views of real facts? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:47 PM:

" Brian: Are still behind the views of real facts? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:45 PM:

" Brian: Gay people didn't leave their church because they thought Jesus was a homophobe. If they leave a church it is because the teachings of that church were homophobic, taught by homophobes...real human beings that are homophobic. Like the poster here (real facts) some people that call themselves Christians can be an actual threat to a gay persons well being. Gay people have been murdered, ya know, just for being gay.....or even merely thought to be gay. Is that part of God's word? I say, no. And you? Some try to use what they think is the word of God to forsake homosexuals. If gay people thought Jesus was a homophobe they wouldn't be going to the churches as they are now. Gay people are Christians too. Thankfully, many gay people have learned the truth about God's word and that they, just because they are gay, are not forsaken. God loves them just like he loves all of his children. I see gay people going to church as they know they are children of God and have a place there/here just like everyone elsee. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:20 PM:

" sam: That quote from the Dalai Llama is absolutely beautiful. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:56 PM:

" No, Brian, I concluded you are a poor debater (chuckle) when you resort to hiding behind your stale, weak Michael Weiner Savage impersonation. It doesn't work, Brian, because you don't have a dump button. My advice? Email the LNS and get me banned; silencing the opposision is your only hope. If you get the right person at the Sentinel I'm sure they will accomodate your request. You, and those of your ilk, have never said what they fear of gays and the ridiculous claim of the impending destruction of civilization. Again, it's just something you heard Weiner Savage yell into his microphone and you eagerly parrot. But he hasn't told you what or why - only to rant about morals; so you never know what to say next. More empty, grandiose overspeak. Brian, try not to use all of your superlatives at once - it leaves you nothing to say when you really want to make a point. Try to think for yourself and compose those thoughts, then transcribe them here for us all to enjoy. Now you run along and worship your rubber Jesus dildo [you did, after given the choice of dildo or King of Kings, decide he was a dildo], I have Christmas shopping to do. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:53 PM:

" Billy, Islamo Fascists are another ultimate abomination. My sister-in-law knows a gay person (and this gay person says many other have left)has left because they feel Jesus is a homophobe. Please try to refrain from your kneejerk reactions. At least we agree that Islamo Fascists are a threat. It's highly unlikely we will break bread with them any time soon. Try to tell that to some of your liberal friends. They'll insist on telling you a century old practice is the result of Bush's policies. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:34 PM:

" Billy has concluded that I am a poor debater because I disagree with his lifestyle. Chuckle!! "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:29 PM:

" Billy, You deny that gays are contributing to the destruction of humanity? There is a moral fabric that holds humanity together. Do try to follow along and at least admit that Jesus wanted the best for humanity and anything that may be a threat to humanity would go against his teachings. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:11 PM:

" You are as poor at debating as Reverend Fakes. You're dismissed, Brian. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:11 PM:

" i'm outraged that Billy Rubin implies that I think Jesus, himself, is a dildo. There is nothing more farther from the truth. The real truth is there is a dildo that looks like Jesus on the cross and I denounce this. I'm confident that the vast majority reading this blog denounce this too. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:03 PM:

" I think it's safe to say that Billy Rubin has had a meltdown. One could conclude that he advocates dildos being made to look like Jesus. I'm dubious that the rest of the porn world would advocate such a blasphemous thing. Billy, are you part of that group that calls Jesus a homophobe or that group that feels Jesus doesn't condemn homosexuality and it is, thus, not a sin? Billy, given that my last name may be Dockter are you and your gay friends going to track me down and slap me silly with that Jesus dildo? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:50 AM:

" And, Reverend Fakes, if you want to score a point (a hole in one!) then address Ivan's post. Until then, anything else you say is worthless. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:47 AM:

" You're "outraged"? Outraged? Really? Do you think you may be overcompensating? Over-reacting just a tad? "Outraged", huh? So then you do, in fact, believe Jesus was a dildo? Or do you think a dildo is a dildo and Jesus was King of Kings and you can differentiate between the two? Careful, here - it's not a trick question but the answer may be counterintuitive for you. Take your time before you answer. You're not doing very well so far, though, considering your other statement, "...it seems to me those who call Jesus a homophobe are the ultimate abomination of hatred for anything Christian." Uhh...really? The ULTIMATE ABOMINATION? How do you then describe Islamist fundamentalists who saw off Christian's heads? What words do you have left after you've already used "ULTIMATE ABOMINATION"? If you've already claimed that if someone calls Jesus a homophobe (something I have NEVER heard in conversation EVER, by the way, and I've had lots and lots and LOTS of conversations on the topic for years and YEARS) the "...ultimate abomination of hatred for anything Christian"?? I think you are as self-loathing and as deeply closeted as Reverend Flakey and just as perverted in your demented, tortured views of worship and religion. You need it to justify your rages against that which horrifies you about yourself. You can't stand the thought of it, but you can't ignore it, blogging and blogging about how immoral it is and how sinful it is. Who are you convincing? Yourself? People who you think will be impressed with your hyper-disgust? Well, Hater and Christian Brian, I don't think it's immoral. I don't think it's sinful. I don't believe your book of crud that you worship and quote and pray to. It is no more true nor does it have any more affect on me than the Koran. It's a bunch of mythology condensed and modified and edited through the centuries. It's crud and almost every story in it has its roots in earlier, Pre-Christian mythology. So why don't you stand up like a real, thinking human male and take responsibility for your own claims instead of hiding behind a 5,000+ year old story book? Stand tall and say that YOU, BRIAN DOCKTER, HATE HOMOSEXUALITY, rather than say you don't like it because you THINK Jesus maybe, well, probably, or might not, no, he certainly didn't like it? You keep storming around claiming you are not a homophobe because the OT says blah, blah, blah. Well, Mr. Christian, do you follow ALL of the OT laws??? Or are you as big a liar and hypocrite as Reverend Fakes? Yes, I'm sick and tired of pompous, pious closet cases like you yelling in public forums that gays are somehow destroying humanity. There always ahve been and there always will be gays in society, until YOU people start burning them AGAIN. Or pushing walls over on them AGAIN. You want ultimate? I'll give you ULTIMATE - The ultimate learning experience for uber-christians like you is when your own child comes to you and say, "Dad, I'm gay." That will be when you prove what you are made of, Brian. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:40 AM:

" i will catch lee when i get back from playing golf. that lie he made about the bible not saying anything about homosexuality, it's a lie. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:38 AM:

" sam; i too love many sayings from many different ppl. i agree (mostly) with what you posted, in that there is no need for a "building" for us to worship. as WE are Gods temple. thats a biblical teaching. we are all at different places (the road) in our understanding of God, but the "paths" of God must be the same for everyone of us. because if it is not, we miss God. Christ IS that path. any other path, leads away from how, no matter how pretty that bumper sticker sounds. some "sayings" can sound warm and fuzzy. but if it detours from Gods word, it is a waste of time to pursue it. you measure the "sayings" of life against the only one that holds the truth in life (Jesus christ). if it doesn't fit, you must aquit "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:31 AM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:25 AM: " Well, I think we can safely conclude this blog Christians 1/ RF zip"). it's not about "who" in here wins. it's ALWAYS about truth, and when it comes to God, only Godly truth matters. not your or mine or anyone else's opinion. there is only one God. there is only one road to a relationship to God (thru Christ). anything short of that, is by definition, a lie. i throw the actual truth of Gods word out there. whatever happens, happens. i see (once again) leonard that after repeating my various challenges to you for many days, you still can't deliver. no definition of biblical immorality. your chicken. you trumpet all the time what the bible say. i sak you ONE simple question, and YOU can't answer it. so don't count yourself in your little "score" sheet. your a wuss. that makes you a integrity ZERO. you can continue to post, but you refuse to answer that question. it will go down in the post that you refused to answer it, and everyone knows it. high five yourself all you want. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:11 AM:

" Billy Rubin, I'm outraged that you feel comfortable with someone making a dildo to look like Jesus on the cross. Is this your way of saying that YOU feel Jesus is a homophobe and this is the ultimate slap in the face for him? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 11:04 AM:

" We can say that since Jesus never actually condemned homosexuality it puts a great burden on those who are gay that they really don't know how Jesus felt. And neither do I. But given our God given innate ability to decipher what is right and wrong, isn't that enough? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:57 AM:

" Lee, Please explain to us that if being gay is not a sin than why are gays leaving the church because they feel Jesus is a homophobe? It seems to me those that are leaving the church for this reason have much more common sense, in a sense, than those that say Jesus never spoke of homosexuality. I'm not sure if this is a conflict of interest of hipocracy. But it is apparent that many gays hard at work splitting hairs. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:49 AM:

" I'm sure there may be a probability that some people born may have a strong urge to become homosexual. I'm sure this goes the same for many other attributes humans may develop. Well, God blessed us with the innate ability to decipher between what is right and wrong. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:43 AM:

" I have heard that people have left the church because they consider Jesus a homophobe. It's curious that since Jesus never actuallly condemned homosexuality that these people are smart enough to know he probably considered homosexuality immoral. I'm not speaking for Jesus. But it seems to me those who call Jesus a homophobe are the ultimate abomination of hatred for anything Christian. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 10:25 AM:

" One thing for sure we can't refute. Jesus condemned immorality. The fact that he didn't specificly condemn homosexuaity is unsure to me. All I know is he did codemn acts of immorality. Anyone have the courage to call him a hatemonger? It seems to me those that condemn the same thing Jesus condemned are only following in the footsteps of him. I don't consider Jesus a hatemonger because he condemned immorality. It seems to me many of you who call us hate mongers because we condemn immorality have alot of explaining to do. "

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ernie wrote on Dec 23, 2007 9:02 AM:

" Sam, here is one of my favorites:""You think of yourselves as humans searching for a spiritual awakening, when in fact you are spiritual beings attempting to cope with a human awakening. Seeing yourselves from the perspective of the spirit within will help you to remember why you came here and what you came here to do." "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 8:57 AM:

" another great quote for this blog "People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost." Amen. "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 8:31 AM:

" sorry "it is from the Dalai Llama." "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 8:29 AM:

" RF: one of may favorite quotes is not from the bible, but speaks profoundly about Chist's teachings. It is fom Dalai Llama - - "This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness." "

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sam wrote on Dec 23, 2007 8:28 AM:

" real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:17 AM: you said "you claim you love someone (that being God), next time you see someone absolutly trash his name, that YOU would run him out of "dodge" RF: It would be clear to me that the person bashing my God, does not know my God. I would show him my God by example. Love is contagious. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 23, 2007 7:51 AM:

" It's time for me to make my annual Kahlua cake. Merry Christmas, and safe travels, to all you bloggers, even the Grinches. :) "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 23, 2007 2:25 AM:

" Well, I think we can safely conclude this blog Christians 1/ RF zip. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:50 AM:

" truth; sincerity in action, character, and utterance "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:46 AM:

" Respect; Willingness to show consideration or appreciation "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:41 AM:

" Lie; A false statement "deliberately" presented as being true; a falsehood "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:25 AM:

" Why would anyone focus so much on something they think is a sin (homosexuality), above so many other sins that are actually addressed in the bible? We can clearly see that homosexuality is not ever spoken of as a sin in the bible.....so why so much focus on it? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:17 AM:

" Being gay is not a sin. Nowhere in the bible does it tell us that being gay is a sin. It tells us that rape is a sin, as are many other things like divorce and remarrying after a divorce, adultery and many more. The bible talks a lot about these sins, but nothing about homosexuality being a sin. Sins such as pride (which was the sin that changed Lucifer to Satan), gossip, envy, arrogance, injustice, malice, disloyalty to parents, lack of pity or love ARE sins. Perhaps the later should be the topic of such disdain rather than something that is not addressed as a sin in the bible. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:12 AM:

" It is clear that Sodom was punished because of the violent, abusive, inhospitable, greedy, and unsympathetic behavior of its citizens towards visitors, widows, the poor and other disadvantaged persons. It's about condemning homosexual rape simply because it is rape. Rape is condemned, not homosexuality. Consensual homosexual activities... loving, committed, same-sex relationships are not condemned in the bible. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 1:09 AM:

" dan said --->("He would never bring himself to say he tries to live the biblical lifestyle, only that he demands it of others. And, let's not forget his claim that AIDS was sent to earth by God Himself to kill the sinning homos. RF is a holiday fruitcake"). nope. never said that. another lie. snore. you know what dan, now your just boring. your no threat in here anymore. laughable really. you only lie about cuz i can't access mines and yours archived words to prove how swollen your tongue is. nite dan. tomorrow i got to wrestle with the real threats to Christianity. your just bore now. whose afraid of someone that has to hide behind a new person, and behind a fellow God-killer? not me dan. depravity causes insanity (and an ever growing swollen tongue evidently). your over matched in here. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:53 AM:

" One of your eyes is bigger than the other, isn't it? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:46 AM:

" ("Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:53 PM:Well, I think that above all else Reverend Real Flakey has taught us all that religion does, in fact and conclusively, cause insanity [at least his, anyway]. Merry Christmas to all the readers of LNS blogs"). danny boy, why did you change your name? couldn't slither around as "dan" anymore? thought maybe your new persona would embolden you more? it has as it appears. looks like your acting braver than you used to. now our feigning bravery by riding the coatails of wuss university's president. the would be God killer slithered right back under his rock. it's what you would be God-killers do. hit and run, slither. remember how i challenged you over and over to "bring it" when you threatened to pull the "shellfish" game one me. you wussed out. man you must have falling all over yourself when you thought you had somebody that could do your dirty work. he slithered away just like you when i asked him to debate it. your twin brothers are you. listen it's well documented what the integrity giant you aren't, but laugh all you want. you just keep heaping judgement on your head from that "fake little man in the sky" (as you put it). you hid behind your new found persona (till i "outed" you). now ivan dixon. what else you hiding behind dan? your not nearly as brave as you type. little boys have others do thier dirty work. don't attempt to do ivans for him, won't allow it. you and hom in "touch"? call him so he can slither back in here so i can paint you two for the God killers that you are, AND hand ppl thier freedom in God. wanna be responsible for that, giving ppl even more reason to believe that Jesus Christ was who he said he was? you can help peoples faith by getting tricky dixon back in here. im confused. i thought you were in here to kill ppls faith, not further it. actually your confused. a commonality among grossly depraved individuals. look at your new persona, all brave and all. wow. impressive. your not even the sweat off my brow. religion DOES cause insanity. but depravity slowly blackens the soul. good job dan. i see the depravity growing stronger. you don't hve to you know? it's a choice. ask the apostle paul. that guy killed Christians right and left for sport. thats the pinnacle of depravity. your not there (yet). maybe because God saved paul out of that depravity, maybe he will you? the only difference between you and paul is that he wanted you. you just plain hate God. why is that? God loves homosexuals. just because he hates thier sin, doesn't mean he hates you. get over your hatred before you self implode. if you don't, your next self appointed screename will be "ticking time bomb". i can't wait to see all those "Christians" in here telling you to go away because you hae God. afterall, you would think they would protect the one they love from the likes of you. thanks for helping me hold up the full length mirror. go get ivan "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:34 AM:

" Hmm... funny how the Rev. says now "...i would have answered his questions by now" while doing everything to avoid answering Ivan's questions. At the time of Ivan's post, the Rev. was going to answer; another meaningless lie in his unbroken string of lies, it is now safe to presume. The truth of the matter is that Rev. Flakey never had any intention of answering Ivan's post, has no idea how to counter Ivan's points and will cling to any tissue of lies to run away from it. The Reverend lost this debate long ago - more than a year ago when it took him 6 months to swallow his bile and admit he believed the bible. He would never bring himself to say he tries to live the biblical lifestyle, only that he demands it of others. And, let's not forget his claim that AIDS was sent to earth by God Himself to kill the sinning homos. RF is a holiday fruitcake. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 23, 2007 12:17 AM:

" sam; it WAS great what ivan wrote, had it been for noble reasons. had it been from that angle, i would have answered his questions by now. given you ppl the awesome knowledge of knowing why God laid out the law, what they meant and what they mean now. not near as difficult a quandry as ppl make it out to be. not if you know the entirety of Gods purpose and plan thru the ages. i know that, because i have done my homework. you say you came from a catholic background? there isn't too many ppl that walk the planet that want to feel the full acceptance of God, free from the laws of guilt and shame. i possess that knowledge, but the blogs would be hero killed that knowledge from happening. now the wuss won't come back. you have him to blame. possibly could have revolutionized your relationship to God. knowing that you are perfectly right with God right where you are and why? there is no other answer to life... THATS IT. i can't answer fully your question sam, because that would let anti-God killer dixon off the hook. whenver he slithers in and out of here, i want to make absolutely sure he gets painted for what he is.... a would be God-killer of peoples faith. time drainer that he is, i will keep him honest (and everyone else in here) so that Gods word remains. thank ivan for wussing out, and everybody else from wussing out. had they done their integrity civic duty, more ppl in here would know what God really DOES say about sexual immorality, and all the other "questions" ppl asked me but i couldn't answer because i don't allow ppl to skate on thier responsibilities. ppl make comments, they better be ready to qualify them because that is intellectually fair. when you don't, we stop until you do. don't care one iota if ppl lie about me. it just shows that they have no game, and fully displays who they are, and their "intentions". go find ivan, and ask him to come to the integrity table. complete freedom in God is worth you going and finding him. i would think that as a former catholic who get raked over the coals (religion guilt shoved down your throat wise) you would be frothing at the mouth at the notion of possesing THAT knowledge. ivan the God killer dixon. here's a career tip for anybody.... you claim you love someone (that being God), next time you see someone absolutly trash his name, that YOU would run him out of "dodge". you wouldn't sit there and watch ppl talk to your dog that way, yet you guys high fived yourself when he came. called God a "jerk". NO ONE SAID nothing. amazing that even God can use the evil intent of man to serve his purpose (ivans little diatrip). could have turned his evil intent right around for Good, and handed you ppl the full knowledge of Gods plan and design. you don't get Gods plan for your life when you come looking to strip him of who he is. God won't waste that knowledge on anyone that has blackened intentions. he will move on until he comes across someone who will. my goal is the same. someone had to take out the trash in here, i guess that had to be me. it's (partially) what i do. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:56 PM:

" And here's a special gift for Rev. Flakey: Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:28 AM: " Dear Real Facts Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. Your persuasive arguments have convinced me that you are right. From now on, when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I will simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. a. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging." "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:53 PM:

" Well, I think that above all else Reverend Real Flakey has taught us all that religion does, in fact and conclusively, cause insanity [at least his, anyway]. Merry Christmas to all the readers of LNS blogs. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:44 PM:

" i am "nice" to you guys compared to the apostle paul. that guy was known for tongue lashing ppl right and left. not only did he call people liars (when they were), but called them straight up evil. hey leonard, you feigned a biblical "expertise" on paul and pauls teaching. maybe YOU can tell the story about how Christ HAND PICKED paul himself, on the road to damascus. paul, the one that Christ knew ahead of time (you know, because Jesus was God, and knew the future)that thru paul, the word of God would be written and preserved. what? now Jesus never personally called paul on the road to damascus? anyway, Christ knew full well that paul would specifically take aim at homosexual sex. paul had to, to be fair to Gods pre-written standards, "IF" he were to be led by integrity because paul had to include EVERYTHING about sexual immorality, not just homosexuality. look at romans 1. covers all of deviant sexual behavior, not just homosexual sex. (watch lodian lie about that one, and say it doesn't say that). knew that he would include that, BECAUSE it mirrored Gods standards from leviticus. anyway, just a short "history" lesson not only on what the bible actually DOES say, but why. you ppl make junk up. i don't. don't need to lie about it. ever read the full chapter of romans 1 lodian? you can read it now and say i lied. get back to me on what it does or doesn't say. you have never even debated it (because your chicken). you only walk away from it via some lame excuse. your way out in the field of dreams if you think for a momment, that Christ hand picked paul knowing full well that he would lie, omit or mis-represent God? God makes mistakes huh? God is not all knowing and sovereignt huh? the reason the leonards of the world try and tell the lies about paul the apostle, is because pauls letters are get down to business,of who is the sheep (true followers of Jesus Christ).. and the goats... (that would be whoever consistently goes against the word of God). ppl that don't like paul, hate him because he tells them of thier sin, no holds barred. alot "uglier" than i ever have. paul was murdered FOR telling the truth. the kinds of "truth" that the obvious "goats" in here run away from. your lucky (actually)that you deal with me. you wouldn't want a guy like paul telling you what you really are (currently). if it wasn't for pauls get down to business acumen, the good news of Jesus Christ would have been destroyed (it had been alive thru oral eye witness testimony), and Christianity would have never reached your ears. thanks to pauls willingness to BE nasty to the opposition, Christ is known, just like Christ had planned before Christ was ever even born. mind boggling huh. Christ was/is God, and knew (before he was even born) that i would be busting you on your lies about him today. trippy stuff that God foreknowlege stuff. God showed wisdom in picking paul. God knew the voracity of those that wanted Jesus Christ to melt into some little cuddly boy in a manger, so that he wouldn't become the "face" of utimate authority. THEY FAILED. thats why Christ picked paul. he knew that in the early church, how much ppl hated the thought of Jesus Christ really being who he claimed to be. God knew that pauls words would ring true in blogs like these. naysayers who purposefully lie about the authority of God, in order to turn it into thier personal "God is my connisuer" guide. man after my own heart that paul. won't sit there and watch people strip God of his authority. wouldn't sit there and watch them lie. made SURE the integrity of the word of God was preserved. wasn't the least bit moved when the naysayers of his life falsly accused him, just because they couldn't handle their own business. there wasn't one person on the planet that paul was afraid of. emboldened by God to stand against anybody. nothing like possesing that feeling. what a joke leonard that the "gospels" are the only thing thats "credible". if it wasn't for pauls putting ppl like you and lodian in thier place, there would be no gospels. Gods word would have never made it around the world if paul had "wussed out". you and lodian would have never heard about Jesus Christ (the one you both feign "allegiance" to) had in not been for pauls willingness to fight against the naysayers that attempted to destroy the AUTHORITY of Gods word. the same thing happens today about Gods word. but instead of it being out there and violent (ppl hated Christianity, and killed Christians in pauls day), now the naysyaers are coming from all directions. most poignetly in here, slithering in and out of here appearing to feign "belief". the "feigners" ultimate goal ....to strip God of his authority and lead others to do so, so they can do whatever they want. the atheists (like dan the billy rubin, and ivan the would be hero dixon), those people are cake. easy to spot evil because they don't hide it. easy to handle their "tripe" as they hit and run anyway. big threat huh? and you all were so impressed. where is ivan BTW? haven't seen him lately. satisfied you guys and what you were REALLY looking for (to have that reason you needed so you can pick and choose pieces of what you want to believe). gave you what you wanted and left. wuss. actually, purposefully evil intended wuss. unlike you ppl, he savors that moniker. dan does too. counts that as a "victory". easy to spot and dismiss those two. they love it. wished you would join them on thier anti-God hit parade. ivan calls Jesus Christ a jerk in the blogs and i witnessed as NONE OF bagged him for that. what do you do, you high five the guy all over for his "noble" contributions. it's what goats of a different color do. you should be so proud all of you, for defending the integrity of the one you claim to love? what a crock. evil is easy to spot. the ones that feign "belief"? thems the nasty ones. the ones that have the capability to do the most damage. the ones that trumpet scriptures out to fool ppl who ARE actually seeking God, but who cannot see their way past thier true agenda. thats where i come in. you want to know what i am doing here? to stem the tide of all you ppl who bastardize Gods word, in order to strip it of its' authority. you will meet intense opposition to that from me whenever that happens. you act civil and show integrity in that you ARE actually seeking the truth of God (whether or not we disagree), you will be treated with respect. but when i know (and i ALWAYS do in a short period of time), you will get exactly what you didn't come looking for, but desereved. God choose paul for this reason. i like paul. paul was a world beater, he wasn't a wuss. he never sat back and watched while ppl trashed Gods auathority. neither will i. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:24 PM:

" Does anyone know if they have computers/internet in the psyche ward? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 10:26 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:28 PM: Not that I feel like going back to check every single one, but almost every post by real facts had an insult, name-calling and/or personal attack"). yep. said,and i own it. every single word. no twisting what i said and didn't say. own every bit of it (unlike you two who blame others for your behavior). gave you two exactly what you had coming to you, despite both of you feigning "integrity". use any description of what i said, doesn't matter. but you forget how good i am at keeping you honest about "what" you say. show me that what i said, was not true? where did i lie? what post? not used to ppl being blunt about you? don't like the truth of your motives being publically displayed. easy, don't lie about something. simple. you lie, i call you on it. listen, this little dance should be easy for you as well (after you act responsible and answer my question), show me "biblically" where what i said to you wasn't the truth about you, AND I WILL APOLOGIZE. that includes anyone. biblically, and not just because you didn't "feel" it was right. it's amazing how many times in here ppl fade in and out of biblical "perspection", EXCEPT when it comes to their own dirt. can you say the same about me? good. then show me biblically where i lied, and wasn't suposed to paint you for who you are. should be easy for all the would-be biblical know it nothings. you know what would really be great? that you ppl were actually right about me. then i could adajust to Gods word and be more in-line with what the bible says. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 10:09 PM:

" ("Dec 22, 2007 2:59 PM: RF: As I understand it, I have answered your challenge. Where are my 200 bucks"). thats another one of your archived lies. where is it? what specific post (the time it occured please?). how can you call yourself anything that IS noble, and so blatantly lie. shows your co-horts play the game of life EXACTLY like you. they do it to, and NEVER have busted YOU for NOT doing it. i don't have a problem copy and pasting where you did. wheres the "post" where you SPECIFICALLY answered it? the one about what the biblical definition of sexual immorality is? you HAVEN'T answered that (biblically). plus YOU skated from your responsibility from answering the question of showing me ONE scripture in the entire bible that says homosexuality is OK. NOTHING. now you parroting friend in crime (lodian) has resorted to using "my" verbage that i leveled at her, against me. laughable. you both swim the same river, you can't qualify ONE answer, so you both have switched to deflection 101. that is a hard life, not taking ownership of what you do and don't do, and blaiming others for your unwillingness to cop to it. you both have made your choices. say all you want, it's laughable watching you both embarass yourselves. now that i showed the true intent of you both, i can sit back and watch you both self implode. archived blog posts show what went down in here. who answered what and who chickened out. truth always wins in the ends. no matter who attempts to lie, twist or run away from it. proving lodian is a liar (about the bible not having "proof" of homosexuallity) was a walk in the park. the esaiest $200 bucks a person could ever lay thier hands on. she never took it from me. what? who doesn't line up to get a free $200 off of a person like me? she squirmed right out the back door. lied again, said it wasn't in the bible. if it really where, like she claimed, she would have beeen all over proving I was wrong, and pocketed that easy cash. didn't...because she can't. we will switch to leonard now, because lodian straight up wussed. how about you leonard? same challenge? i will sweeten the pot on you....show me ONE scripture that OK's homosexual sex IS ok? and show me biblically, the definition of sexual immorality. can't get either one of these people to answer the ONE question i asked them. now with a "sure bet" (if they "really" know what their talking about), the easiest $200 loeonard could ever make (appealing to leonards phony bravado), now we will see that he too is no man of integrity. given these two peoples "claims" about what the bible "says", should be a walk in the park. watch the ensuing "skate around job" on this one. one thing is for sure, leonard wouldn't walk away from an easy $200 bucks ...especially (given our "history")...from me "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:20 PM:

" "Love your neighbor as yourself" Merry Christmas to you All! "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:45 PM:

" Thanks Leonard. Merry Christmas to you too, and to everyone else. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:41 PM:

" Hey guys, I am off to the in laws tomorrow so I just wanted to wish you all a really Merry Christmas. Even you, Real Facts. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:29 PM:

" Not that I feel like going back to check every single one, but almost every post by real facts had an insult, name-calling and/or personal attack. That's no way to talk about God. It's too bad real facts had to get so down and dirty with everyone as this could have been a more interesting blog had he been civil. I, for one, am interested in knowing why people like him "believe" the way they do. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:23 PM:

" sam: It is confusing to me when someone decides to "pick and choose what Laws in Leviticus a true Christian is to follow" and then ignore the rest. I just can't understand that mindset. How does one come to the conclusion in their own mind that this is okay? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:16 PM:

" I agree, sam. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:04 PM:

" AND RF, I am not asking these questions to start a fight. I really am interested in an answer. AND they are not addressed only to you... anyone can answer... please. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:00 PM:

" I do want to ask how can some one pick and choose what Laws in Leviticus a true Christian is to follow.That is why what Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:28 AM was so great. Also that is why Leonard's comment was great. What about the preacher's daughter who sleeps around. These are valid questions? "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:59 PM:

" That is why I enjoy questioning Leonard. He answers. We do not always agree, but he voices his honest opinion AND will defend his beliefs and still respects me as a person. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:59 PM:

" Lodian, I have no interest whether RF accepts me or not. My point is that discussing one's religious beliefs is difficult enough without all the name calling and insults. Doesn't it seem ridiculous to call someone a name while discussing God? "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:39 PM:

" Thanks Leonard. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:19 PM:

" Merry Christmas everyone! May you be blessed with happiness, health and love. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:16 PM:

" real facts: Homosexuals are a child of God, just like everyone else. They are not forsaken, nor are they sinners just because they are homosexuals. With all your ranting and raving you have not brought to light one shred of evidence (God's word) that a homosexual is forsaken or that being gay is against God's word. That means you've shown us all a big fat ZERO! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:09 PM:

" real facts: I am posting in small bits for you so you can keep up. Are you okay? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:09 PM:

" real facts: You are nothing of what you require of others. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:05 PM:

" real facts: You "say" that you "respect respectable ppl". How about trying to be respectable first? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:04 PM:

" real facts: I am certain that what keeps sam honest has everything to do with her and nothing whatsoever to do with YOU! Geez, do you take credit for the sunrise as well? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 5:01 PM:

" real facts: There are so many things wrong in your post (Dec 22, 2007 2:58 PM) that it is hard to know where to start. For one thing I am sure sam is thrilled that you accept her now and believe she has been respectful...and even more happy that you take credit for said behavior. You really do have some kind of God complex. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 4:52 PM:

" real facts: You are a liar. You twist, you tweak and you flat out lie. You are not noble, nor are you a man of character, integrity, honesty or dignity.....let alone compassion, consideration or understanding. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You have tried to make a mockery of God's word here and you should ask for forgiveness. You are an evil little man with nothing better to do than "act" as if you are right at every turn. God only knows why you are in so much pain. Does it help you get through your miserable life to put other people down for no reason. Sheesh, one would think you would be interested in actually getting your point across since you "say" that you are so "penchant" about it. Is that a lie too, real facts. I think you are a poor soul that just wants attention and therefore has been sticking around here to try and manipulate every word others have shared with you. I feel so sorry for you. Will you have family around at Christmastime? You need someone to help you through your difficult times. I hope you can find someone that can guide you through all that pain. May God have mercy on you. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 4:40 PM:

" real facts: I see that you have still not answered my question. I have answered your questions, but you do not have the integrity to answer mine. Do I need to repeat it for you? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:06 PM:

" Sam: Constantine subverted a religion that had been anti-authoritarian and twisted it to serve the state. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:05 PM:

" Sam: I don't know whether Constantine was trying to introduce Pagan practices to Christianity but I do know that he strongly favored a version of Christianity that was more favorable towards the Emperor's power. Christ's message in the Gospels is really quite revolutionary, that is one of the reasons why it was necessary to emphasize Paul the Reactionary, along with all of his fetishes and prejudices. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:59 PM:

" RF: As I understand it, I have answered your challenge. Where are my 200 bucks? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:58 PM:

" sam; you have my respect. your the only one in here that has demonstrated that you ARE willing to be civil and learn. you will find when any person acts that way, they will get more than respect from me. my dealings with you in the past lead to keeping you honest in here. in the discussion boards, your first post to me was to attack me, it wasn't to debate. when a person does that, i stand my ground. now over the course of this blog you have demonstrated that you actualy might care about the truhts of life, and therefore have meaningful debates and discussions. it's too bad that now that can happen, this blog is about to expire. maybe somehow we can in the future. i hold out the olive branch to you. i wanted to get this in before this blog expires. i respect respectable ppl. when ppl act rediculous, they are going to get what they have coming to them. have a good Christmas. real facts "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:50 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:30 PM: What is the $200 challenge? I don't get it. I can't read the ramblings of real facts anymore. He doesn't make any sense. Tschuess für jetzt"). see what i mean? you are a liar. you read my post and know full well what i challenged you to do, and lied that it "didn't make sense (and went off on some nonsensical "real facts doesn't make any sense now" rant. thats a lie as well). raised the pot to $200. the same thing i asked you to do for days "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:38 PM:

" Leonard, I have a few questions for you. I have read that Constantine had a lot to do with how how bible was put together. He was trying to combine paganism and Christianity. Is this true? And why was the gospel according to Phillip never put in the bible? or the Gospel of Mary Magdalene? Thanks for any info. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:34 PM:

" Is real facts taking breaks with other people that hate their fellow man? Real facts must really think he has gotten a bum deal from God to have so much hate in his heart. Is real facts doing the DEVIL's work? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:31 PM:

" real facts: We read English. Please post in English. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:30 PM:

" What is the $200 challenge? I don't get it. I can't read the ramblings of real facts anymore. He doesn't make any sense. Tschuess für jetzt "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:28 PM:

" real facts: P.S. I am not a "you ppl". I am one person that has been considerate and has asked questions. Too bad you haven't noticed that facts. Tschuess für jetzt "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:25 PM:

" I must run some errands, Bye for now. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:25 PM:

" real facts: Your question has been answered, yet you have not acknowledged it yet. Read my post to you on Dec 22, 2007 2:10 PM. Can you respond? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:23 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:12 PM: Real facts daid, "EVERY question i was supposed to answer, i did." REAL FACTS, NO YOU DID NOT! Who's a liar? Have you done your homework? Are you noble enough to hear the truth"). i did. until you ppl killed that flow by chickening out and not answering MY question. despite repeated requests. zip. whose rambling and lying now? ask leonard for help if need be, he thinks he knows the bible. you and leonard can tag team the $200 challenge and split it if you like. he skated from that one too. you two are laughable. now your both claiming you don't have responsibility just because i can't write something "correctly". you two are mental giants. it has nothing to do with whether something is true or not. its' just one more self indictment in your laundry list of self indictments. break time for me. spening time with ppl of character is alot more important to me right now, than wasting time chasing you two down and holding you accountable for being low on the integity scale. feel free to lie some more when i am gone. i will hold the mirror back up later tonight. wheres my $200 lodian ??????? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:22 PM:

" real facts: Do you need money? You're always wanting to place bets. Personally, I think it is inappropriate to be betting on a topic such as this. Please be more considerate and have the character and integrity to be classy while discussing such topics as God and the bible. I require a certain level of integrity in order to converse with you. Please follow these guidelines. Thank you. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:19 PM:

" real facts: Your posts are too hard to understand. Please use spellchecker and grammar check before posting so we can better communicate. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:17 PM:

" real facts said, "i am much too good at showing the real motives of ppl." Dear real facts, you are the only one that believes that self elevating nonsense. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:14 PM:

" i answered that question "why are you here" in my 1:03 PM blog to leonard which YOU read. this is why it is a waste of time to deal with you. $200 dollars. you can even pick the family it goes to ...fair? can't do it on your own? i play fair, i will sweeten the pot making it even easier for you.... you can ask others to help you find one (but you have to post and debate it yourself). i hand you ppl my head on a golden platter, and you won't take it. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:14 PM:

" Leonard: LOL!!! I was thinking the same thing! I have no idea what that sentence means. Ramblings of a madman I suppose. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:14 PM:

" RF: I have no idea what a "trixion" is but I did most surely answer your question. Christ established a New Covenant that replaced the outdated OT mandates to burn preacher's daughters and persecute homosexuals. Love replaced Hate and Peace replaced Violence. I don't know how I can be any clearer than that. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Real facts daid, "EVERY question i was supposed to answer, i did." REAL FACTS, NO YOU DID NOT! Who's a liar? Have you done your homework? Are you noble enough to hear the truth? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:10 PM:

" real facts: Don't you see that the lack of evidence that God has forsaken all homosexuals is proof in itself that God has not forsaken homosexuals? I'm not sure how else to explain this to you. I am already trying to communicate with you by bringing this down to an elementary school level and you still don't get it. Real facts, that is the answer to your question. Do you get it yet? Maybe I'm not being noble enough for you. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:09 PM:

" RF wrote "you have NO idea why that was written, and specifically how it DOESN'T homosexual sex. " To be honest, I have no idea what this means. For one thing, there is no verb in the second part of the compound sentence. What does "DOES'T homosexual sex" mean? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:06 PM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:45 PM: real facts: Why won't you answer questions"?). why do you ask somebody to do something that you are unwilling to do yourself? where's my answer about the bibles INCLUSION of homosexuality i have asked you for days? EVERY question i was supposed to answer, i did. you ppl are keeping me from answering the other ones because i won't allow you to skate from YOUR responsibity. you think you can bomb me left and right, when i only asked you ONE question that you refuse. get a life, or get integrity. your wasting your time getting me to do something you haven't done FIRST. keeping ppl honest. it's what i do. what do you wanna bet you slither away from your responsibility to answer MY question, and allow the blog to expire. what do you in your currently deluded state that you will high five yourself for "real facts never answered the questons" - full on lie? how about i sweeten the pot betwen you and me. this alone will prove between me and you who has "integrity". bet me $100 right now the bible specifically says sex is sin, between two men in leviticus, and sex between two males and sex between two females in romans 1 ????? otherwise, you can slither right out into blog history. $100 bucks. i need the money, but i will gladly donate it to the salvation army to prove i have integrity. should be an easy $100 for you at Christmas time "if" you didn't lie about what the bible "says". shoot, i bet another $100 she completely runs from that challenge as well. poor salvation army stands to gain $200 for needy families, but will get "integrity stiffed" by lodian. you should play this game with me lodian. i am much too good at showing the real motives of ppl. $200 easy money "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:03 PM:

" real facts: Here's a simple question for you. (Will you answer?) I'm wondering what the point of all of this is here on the blog. QUESTION; What do you want to achieve here on this blog? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:00 PM:

" real facts: Personally, I tried to ask you honest questions early on, that you deemed unworthy of a response, so I am wondering what exactly you WILL answer. Are there any questions you will answer? Or are we to just blindly follow your "teachings" as the word of God himself. Your interpretations of the bible are one thing, but they are not the end all on this topic. I know you will post some ramblings about what a liar I am and how much I need to do my homework or that I am not noble enough in my postings to you, so this post to you is basically a waste of time...but I'll indulge you anyway. Like sam, I enjoy conversations about the bible, God and religion. I don't always agree with the views of others when it comes to these topics, but it is always interesting to hear what people have to say and what they personally believe. It's a shame you have turned this blog into such a hate fest. So, real facts, what's it gonna be? Any answers? Or are you just going to belittle me again? (please note my punctuation, grammar and syntax...it's makes communication much easier) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:59 PM:

" real facts: It has become obvious that you will only answer questions when you feel like it, which has not happened, so can you please give us a list of questions that we can ask you and actually receive an answer? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:49 PM:

" leonard; your posts on 1:20 and 1:21 show your ignorance. you have NO idea why that was written, and specifically how it DOESN'T homosexual sex. you don't think for a minute that you are going to get away with your two purposes in posting this (1) to circumvent trixons responsibility (which won't happen). (2) to let YOU off the hook about answering my questions. you still skate. i was thinking about you and your cohorts in crime last nigh at the hockey game (in keeping with the "professional" skaters in here). your consistent. you pulled your skate job on me the last time we "talked" in a diff blog. it's what you do. what person consistently trashes something, feigns allegience to it, then claims he "loves it". doesn't matter what you do, this is 100% true about you ....you number and saddle yourself up to those who seek to discredit Christ and Christianity, and defame those that love and worship him. that is a 100% factual statement. based on your behavior and words over time, and consistently aligning yourself with the likes of dan and trixon (and thier full on God hating "hit" parade). your not one of "us". your one of them. your in good comapany. how many people had to pick thier tongue up off the ground "hoping" trixon had the majic bullet? nearly all of you. you have become a lesson in futility in here. all bark. no bite. wheres that verse i asked you for about homosexuality?????? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:45 PM:

" real facts: Why won't you answer questions? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:26 PM:

" RF: Why don't you just stop whining and answer Ivan's questions? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:23 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:10 PM: RF Why don't you just stop whining and answer Ivan's questions"). he's your partner in crime. you and him have the same goal in here...to discredit Gods word. your lucky leonard i cannot access your blogs about Christ and Christianity over the past year. i could copy and paste every one of your words, were you have consistently trashed Christianity every time you referred to it. wish i had a dollar for every time YOU bagged on Christianity and Christians. only recently you feigned "belief" after i painted you into the corner about who you really are. you know, your in good company though. notice how NOBODY ran to condemn your lying to me and about me? they bag on me for everything, but say nothing to you. proves i am right. integrity isn't the "theme" of this blog. of course you still are skating on your responsibility to answer MY question, instead imploring me to answer purposefully missing - but showing up at the last minute to claim "victory" - ivan trixon. since your not man enough to handle your integrity business, maybe you can influence trixon to do your dirty work? it's obvious over many days, your sure not man enough "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:21 PM:

" RF Why don't you just stop whining and answer Ivan's questions? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:20 PM:

" RF If you show me where it says that we don't have to burn preacher's daughters who sleep around alive, I will show you where the New Testament says homosexuality is OK. The whole point is that Christ brought a NEW COVENANT that replaced the archaic and (in this case) barbaric rules of the OT. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:18 PM:

" RF: Leviticus 21:9 says "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:10 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:14 PM:Brian: I believe that I have answered all of RF's questions but his posts are so garbled with accusations of lying and bad syntax that it is possible I have missed one. If there is a particular one that you are interested in, please bring it to my attention"). the ONLY reason a person could possibly make that statement after days of asking you ONE simple question, and you refusing....is because you are either self delusional, or a complete liar without conscience. when you lie that many days, there is nothing "ignorant" about that. your quote "i believe" shows your a person that loves to pass himself off as something he is not. don't feign nobility. with every post like this, you only demonstrate that i am right on about you. your doing my job for me. notice how i copy and paste ALL your words leonard? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:10 PM:

" RF Why don't you just stop whining and answer Ivan's questions? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:03 PM:

" a couple of you are still showing your "spots" by still high fiving your would be hero "ivan trixon". ivan hasn't done his "integrity" responsibility has he? NO ONE mentions that. dan will high five trixon for sure, because thats exactly how dan operated for over a year. skated clean away from a question i asked him FIRST, and lied about me not "fullfilling" what i said i would do. it's what now has become a "theme" in here. the cast of characters in now is large and growing. seems none of you can answer the simple question i put to all of you at one time or another "show me ONE scripture that the bible OK's homomsexual sex of any kind". NOBODY HAS ANSWERED THAT ONE....for days, yet daily the integrity "giants" call for their "answers". grow up people and buy some integrity if your that desperate to possess it. if you can't answer a simple question that i have asked you individually, you don't have integrity when you hound me to answer yours. ivan dixon has alot more on the hook than you all, and has wussed out of it so far. bet my life he completely will, and allow the blog to disappear so he can lie to himself about his "victory". laugh all he wants (and the rest of you who think it's a victory as well). when YOU don't do YOUR responsibilties in life and humanity, you can high five yourself all you want, youv'e still dug yourself an intellectual dishonesty grave. conscience wise and integrity wise, i got NO problem with you ppl lying about my character, after i made sure ivan would have some. i am betting ivan is an alumni of wuss university. it's what trolling ppl do. YOU ppl will have yourselves to blame for not having the character for chiding ivan about doing his part. maybe you all are afraid. maybe you don't want me to spill the real deal about the passages you all were "hoping" to give a free pass to homosexual sex. and all the other peripheral things that would imply, that would then make you feel "better" about the other choices in life that excludes Gods authority. maybe you should be afraid of my response to ivans diatrip, knowing it will only serve to make you even more guilty before God. maybe thats why you ppl can't even answer a simple question. be that as it may, you can high five yourselves all over. don't matter. the real truth is out there now thanks to a zillion blogs. who "is" and who "isn't" is archived with all to see. in my response to lee's question "why are you here". thats why. (1)to expose the ones that are in here to trash Gods authority by excluding his word, and to defend against that. JESUS HIMSELF (in the gospels leonard "loves"), CALLED THAT EVIL, so do i. (2)and to answer any and all legitimate questions that i can, that comes from people who are actually interested in the truth, and not playing games just for the purpose of of discredit "kicks". what a sad commentary that is, on the number of posts compared to the ones that ARE looking for truth. sam is that person. the rest of you are not (so far), but not something you don't know yourself. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:29 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:59 AM: Chu8ckle... different people use different greetings. Some say "hi", others say "howdy". I myself am partial to "hola". RF, on the other hand, without fail, begins every post with "you are a liar"). label it a "greeting" if you want. right now, it's the "truth anchor" that follows you around in here. i completely copy and pasted every lying full sentence you wrote to prove that you HAVE lied, and you couldn't even defend against it. your "defense"? by calling me one, buy providing ZERO proof that i did. its' the only thing people like you do, when your caught spewing things that aren't remotely true "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:23 PM:

" Brian: I am curious. Are YOU willing to condemn the actions of Baptist minister Rev Fred Phelps who led a series of protests at the funeral for Matthew Shepard, the young man who was murdered by anti gay terrorists? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:15 PM:

" Brian: I believe that I have answered all of RF's questions but his posts are so garbled with accusations of lying and bad syntax that it is possible I have missed one. If there is a particular one that you are interested in, please bring it to my attention. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:13 PM:

" Brian: I do not think you are a hate-mongerer because you have read the Old Testament. I have read the OT a couple of times and I do not consider myself to be a hate-mongerer. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:27 AM:

" real facts: Now answer my questions. Stop avoiding the questions. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 11:25 AM:

" real facts: Be noble when asking your questions and you'll get answers. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:57 AM:

" Leonard, I agree with what you wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:58 AM: Christ DID bring a NEW COVENANT, and we need to put aside the hatred and fear of the OT. We need to embrace Christ's love together in the undivided community of Christ. Well said. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:09 AM:

" Wow, Brian. Your posts are so meaningful. Tell me, did you come up with that phrase about liberalism being a mental disease all by yourself? Or did you forget Weiner Savage's term is "disorder"? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:06 AM:

" Brian, you must come to grips with life. A rubber "replica of Jesus" is not really your Lord and Savior. It's a piece of rubber. Does it look like Jesus? What, exactly, does your vision of Jesus look like? Do you imagine he is actually a rubber sex toy? Do you rage against plastic Jesus statues perched on car dashboards? Is THAT a fitting place for the King of Kings? Do you worship a painting of Jesus in your home? Do you know that for Christians it is a sin to worship idols? If the rubber sex toys are, as you claim, idols that must be revered, who is sinning? And why do you keep acting as if the Fair is some horror show? And that people must be ashamed of it? It is what it is - a huge gay event. You snidely trash Nancy Pelosi, as if she is personally responible for the event. Well, Christian Brian, what steps did you take to get that fine, upstanding Republican Presidential Candidate Rudy Ghouliani to shut down the Pride events in NYC, which are the biggest in the WORLD? Should he secure the nomination and runs against Hillary or Obama, I suppose you will NOT vote for ol' Rudy? You're a hypocrite, Brian and you make the lamest arguments since Reverend Fred. Your only hope is to get everyone else banned. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:02 AM:

" RF said" ivan dixon, your a trouble causing troll too". My point is instead of spending so much time typing spewing rude remarks back, just say "Ivan, thanks for your concern, but I am neither drunk nor a bar hopper." Enough said. Peace Out. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 9:02 AM:

" Billy, And so your liberal assault rages on. It seems to me you are the one perpetuating the hate. You're in lockstep with the mental disease liberalism. How big is your bucket of water? "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:57 AM:

" RF: 1:48 am. I am glad to hear that you do not hate people. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:54 AM:

" I think it may be time for a review. First, we have the self-annointed Dispenser of Morality, Rev. Fred, who lurks around fast food joints, cruising the employees there that he thinks may be gay. One in particular catches his eye and Rev. Fred asks a number of aquaintances if he is, in fact, gay. Rev. Fred returns and chats the presumed gay boy up, maybe inviting him over to the house to hear the newest Kylie CD he has purchased for the occasion. To cleanse his conscience, Rev. Fred continually comes here to condemn everyone and everything in sight, hoping to scourge himself of his demons with his own fire and brimstone. And we have Brian, who cruises photo sites of gay events, claiming to be doing "research", only to later target those events as "immoral", in his own bid to salve his burning conscience. Brian rages against everyone, even directly and repeatedly threatening them physically. Brian, the consumate Christian, demands that other posters, with whom he disagrees, be banned from the forum. This tactic, which he has learned from too many hours of hate radio, is effective with the radio personnas. But what Brian forgets is that Michael Weiner Savage can dump or shout down callers with whom he disagrees. Weiner Savage is the leader in this tactic. Brian wants desperately to be able to do the same, he wants a "dump" button to be pressed when he has temporarily run out of hate to spew. He wants people to stop, STOP making points he is powerless to defend against. The only option is to call for BANNING! Brian, it's time to face it, you ARE a hateful homophobe and, perhaps, a self-loathing closeted gay man. Your only standard in your crusade is the old testament, which you yourself surely do not make any pretense of living by. If the old testament is the only thing you have by which to condemn "homos" [your word] and rage that they must be driven "back into the closet" [your phrase], you must realize that not everyone believes your book of parables. I reject your hateful notion that I and people like me are somehow "immoral" and inferior to hateful prigs like you. You don't know me, yet you judge me to be evil and sinful. Well, roll in your own sin, Christian. I'm positive Jesus has a special place at his table for violent, hateful monsters like you. "

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sam wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:51 AM:

" RF: my question about Ruth and Naomi actually came from my spouse. We read the book of Ruth together and on our separate computers over the past few weeks have googled the topic and shared what we found. We still disagreed (civilly) AND, guess what, we agreed to disagree on the topic. My question to you was NOT a challenge at all. It was an attempt to get your insight on the topic, providing us with more information to discuss. Trust me, you do not even want to hear the discussion that followed after we read your response. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:25 AM:

" It seems to me the S.F. city leaders have sunk to a new low. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:21 AM:

" Billy, Actually the theme of this event was not only gay but the rejection of Christ. I suppose you noticed the sex toys shaped like a cross with Jesus on them. And I suppose you noticed the shape was of a male sex organ. Billy try to refrain from calling me a non-Christian. It was you who attended this event. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:17 AM:

" What a travesty that the third largest spectator event in CA is a gay event in S.F. The founding fathers of S.F. must be rolling over in their graves. How can Pelosi show her face in public because this event occurs in her congrssional district. I am at a loss. But then, her and Newsome condoned the event. Billy, are you gay? We must now proclaim S.F. a sanctuary city for gays and S.F. will even suspend federal laws to protect these people. Again, what a travesty. S.F. should be experiencing a sharp decline in tourism of the moral variety. I'm sure gay tourism is way up. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:08 AM:

" So I guess we can put you down in the Non-Christian column, Brian? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:08 AM:

" Billy, Many laws were suspended so this event could happen. It seems to me you are comfortable that federal laws can be suspended to fit the gay lobby's self serving agenda. Go to the site yourself and do some research and try to refute these claims and pictures. Stop accusing me of making this up and see for yourself, if you have the courage. You are capable of investigative reporting, aren't you? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:05 AM:

" One more Fun Fair Fact for you Bri and then I'll leave you to it. Did you know that the San Francisco Folsom Street Fair is the THIRD LARGEST SPECTATOR EVENT in the state of California? It is. The Rose Parade is number one and, if I remember correctly, the Bay to Breakers run is second, but I could be wrong on that one. But the prestigeous 3rd place ranking goes to the Fair you love to hate. Maybe in another year or two we'll get it budged up to 2nd place? How cool would that be? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:02 AM:

" Now Loenard is saying the OT has hatred and fear of homosexuals. It seems to me he has broken into a whole new realm of discussion at the expense of the OT to fit his agenda. Leonard, are we now hatemongers because we read the OT? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 8:00 AM:

" Gee, Brian, your post of 7:55 AM is utterly profound. Did you write that yourself?? Wow. You should do more writing. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:58 AM:

" Oops, sorry, Brian. But because some militant Christo-Fascist hate site says it doesn't make it so. You're either lying about having seen it yourself or you are gullible enough to believe whatever comes out of Weiner Savage's mouth. The streets are not open to the public. Closed. Not open, closed. And if the cops were hired to oversee the event, that pretty much shuts down your ridiculous non-argument, doesn't it? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:55 AM:

" Another night gone by and still Leonard has not addressed RF posts. Soon, the LNS will delete this blog and the one thing I will take away from it is the memory of the way Leonard twisted and turned every which way to avoid answering a series of simple questions. RF my friend, you pulled the curtain on Leonard and showed the world that there was nothing there but a scared little man who didn't know how to address one simple question on homosexuality. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:51 AM:

" Billy Rubin, I didn't get the information on the fair from Savage. I found it on another site. It's called americans for truth about homosexuality. We have already been over this. Leonard has already labelled it a right wing propaganda site. The pictures on this dite weren't doctored and the city police were hired to oversee the event. Given you condone this type of event on PUBLIC streets you are now out of step with Leonard. You do have hope. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:47 AM:

" And, by the way - posts under the name of Billy Rubin are not necessarily "Dan", there is more than one person who posts from here and Billy Rubin is the name and password the computer remembers. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 22, 2007 7:38 AM:

" Reverend Fred is concerned he is wasting time and "...could be doing something judicial [at 3:30 AM on a Saturday???]." Oh, Reverend Phelps, I think you have been extraordinarily judgemental right here on this blog. You must wander through your house dressed in Pope's robes demanding people kneel before you and kiss your ring while you pass your biblical judgements upon the world at large. I think no one but perhaps Brian is interested in any more of your righteous condemnations and self-deified judgements. Perhaps you and Brian can communicate privately and worship one another; Brian can constantly threaten to come to Lodi and assault you and you can tell him what a worthy, righteous Christian he is because of it. What you SAID you would do (and consistently lied) is address Ivan's post. Game, set and match to Ivan. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 6:58 AM:

" The way I see it, the debate between RF and the other Christians on this blog boils down to a single question: Did Christ bring a New Covenant? If the answer is no, then RF is correct and we should gather the adulterers, homosexuals, witches etc in a public square and stone them to death as we are directed by Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers. If, however, Christ DID bring a NEW COVENANT, then we can put aside the hatred and fear of the OT and embrace Christ's love together in the undivided community of Christ. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 4:06 AM:

" Another night gone by and still RF has not addressed Ivan's posts. Soon, the LNS will delete this blog and the one thing I will take away from it is the memory of the way RF twisted and turned every which way to avoid answering a series of simple questions. Ivan, my friend, you pulled the curtain on RF and showed the world that there was nothing there but a scared little man who didn't know how to use capitalization. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 4:02 AM:

" Brian: Homosexuals are a part of the world we live in. I don't see any reason why school curricula should try to pretend that they don't exist. Why do you think that tax paying Americans should be edited out of the story of our country? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 22, 2007 4:00 AM:

" Chu8ckle... different people use different greetings. Some say "hi", others say "howdy". I myself am partial to "hola". RF, on the other hand, without fail, begins every post with "you are a liar". "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:58 AM:

" i will address everyone of lee's questions tomorrow, or as soon as he comes clean. which ever comes first "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:56 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:22 AM:real facts: It looks to me like you will only accept someone as being honest, noble, educated and full of integrity and character if they agree with you at every level. Why is that"). nope. all those attributes are "attributable" to all of humanity. they DO NOT belong solely to Christianity. if they did, you would be right. what i am asking for, belongs to the WHOLE world. all those adjectives are definable in every society in the world. you cat humane, you reap your adjectives. you don't, those adjectives self indictment you. it has NOTHING to do with me. you can be a dead wrong atheist, and still act "noble" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:50 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:15 AM:" real facts: Are you welcome in your church of choice"). lee, don't ever accuse me of not answering yours or anybodys questions. i do, and will. you are now acting just like them. your demanding all these answers from your rapid fire blogs, but have YET to answer mine. i had hope for you, and you let me down. your just like them i see. demanding, yet not living up to your own demands. anyway, i am welcome in the church's i attended. as i stated before, i am "church shopping". in between church's now. my purpose for being at the last one i went to, is now over. now i am looking into where i need to be next. search the blogs on what my "leanings" have been in the past (types of churchs i attended). the anysayers lied about that one too. said i didn't tell them. search where i said i went. don't be lazy. i am not going to tell you how old i am because thats both personal AND irerelevant to anything happening in here. truth is truth. since when did gae have anything to do with that. personal information is not something anyone in here is willing to give. whats your savings account number? can i have that? lee, don't play games. ask legitimate questions that pertain to whats happening in here. man up also. do what YOU are supposed to...answer my question "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:37 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:20 AM: " real facts: Unlike you, I do not have the time to sit at the computer and wait for someone to post to me day in and day out....hour after hour. That, Mr. RF, is one reason I have not addressed you as you would have enjoyed"). gotta catch this one before i go to bed so that it doesn't get lost in the blogs. thats a crock and an absolute lie. you made time to post to me now, yet you have "no time" to answer what i asked you? baloney. thats a straight up lie lee, and you know it. this is exactly what i am getting at. people that play games, and won't do things right. i too have a family, and it's costing me valubale time with them in order to deal with this drivel. why do i do it? because i am a man that does what i say i will do.. i answer ppl. because OF my character, i have to spend wasted time busting ppl's rediculousness, while i could be doing something judicial. spending time quality time with my family, and actually debating with noble intended ppl. look at my posts. middle of the night. costs me some family "quality" the next day because im tired. look lee, men that have character keep their word, no matter HOW much that costs them. men that don't, make excuse WHEN they don't. you didn't answer it, because you skated from it. did you forget to read that blog aimed at leonard. don't you dare wind up where that guy has placed himself in life. you seem to have potential. see how much more sleep you have cost me since i was saying i was going to bed? count the minutes between posts. because of my charcater, you stole that amount of time away from my family... "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:28 AM:

" As we have witnessed all along... again, real facts does not answer the questions. He only attacks others and asks of us what he cannot deliver himself. Mirror, real facts, look in the mirror! "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:27 AM:

" real facts: Many have hoped for better things from you, but you have sorely disappointed. Keep trying though. Maybe praying for forgiveness would help. You must really be repentant though. I have a strong feeling that God does not look kindly on your behavior right now. Repent, real facts, repent. Remember, God loves you and will forgive you if you are truly sorry for your sins. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:23 AM:

" real facts: It looks to me like you will only accept someone as being honest, noble, educated and full of integrity and character if they agree with you at every level. Why is that? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:22 AM:

" ("Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:11 AM: real facts: Are you gay"?). nope. going to bed now lee. your getting free reign now to take whatever ill aimed swings your heart desires. get some sleep yourself. tomorrow you can tag team the naysayers when they come looking for my head. since your playing the game the way they play, thier going to need your help. i root for people to succeed, but am betting none of them repent by tomorrow morning. offered them to come to the table on an issue and their "prize" would be that i would "probably" have a heart attack. no takers then either, just like you. so i don't hold out much in the way of expectations for tommorrow. we will see. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:20 AM:

" real facts: Unlike you, I do not have the time to sit at the computer and wait for someone to post to me day in and day out....hour after hour. That, Mr. RF, is one reason I have not addressed you as you would have enjoyed. I have a job, a loving wife and children that add to my joyous blessed life. And you? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:16 AM:

" real facts: Are you welcome in your church of choice? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:13 AM:

" real facts: How old are you? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:11 AM:

" lee; what happened? where did you go? you were another one that came in here to chide me, then left when i challenged you to qualify your statements about me. seems you ran straight away also. bummer for you. that places you in good company in here at wuss university. feel good about that? don't go anywhere. once the naysayers awake and read my purposefully aimed blog, they are going to throw a fit and once again prove what i said about them was spot on. i dunno, maybe you might witness repentance. straaaaranger things have happened. i hope so, for their sake. if not lee, i got big shoulders and tons of fortitude. i stand on what i said, and will take everything the can throw at me. maybe someday in YOUR life, you will add this all up and realize ....i am only doing it the way it needs to be done. act nice, you get nice. well, you know the rest of that bumper sticker. choose a side of the fence in life lee. because that "fence" is growing taller by the day. the saints or the ain'ts. the sheep or the goats. the yes or the no's. wuss university - wrong side of the "fence". be efficient. ride ivan dixon so he acts noble and does what he is supposed to, so i can give these ppl what their salivating for. i "smell" ivan is going to shirk his responsibility, and it needs to get handled before this blog disappears. your wasting your time posting to me otherwise "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:11 AM:

" real facts: Are you gay? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:11 AM:

" real facts: What is your purpose here? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:10 AM:

" real facts: Does your church advocate your style of communicating the bible and God's word? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:09 AM:

" real facts: Are you married? "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:08 AM:

" real facts: Take a look in your own mirror. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:07 AM:

" "Noble" is defined as "Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor: a noble spirit." "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 3:03 AM:

" I guess I'll chime in here on this epic blog. What I can see here is that real facts has a very hard time communicating with others. The personal attacks alone are cause for alarm that this man is in a lot of pain somehow. Maybe he is reaching out, even with all of his hate for his fellow man, for some kind of purpose in his lonely life. Why else would he continue to address everyone, in his novel-like posts, if he has no desire for real communication and or debate on this topic. He just wants to argue. I've known people like this and they end up without love, friendship and family in their life because they run everyone off. I think real facts is probably divorced as well. That's why he doesn't address the topic when asked. He says he likes questions, but then calls people all kinds of names and belittles their attempt at discussion with him. Real facts calls people lazy, liars and uneducated when they bring him an opposing view or a sincere question. I'm sure real facts will "copy and past" this post too so he can blast me as well. That's fine. His need to blast his fellow man is not stronger than God's love, which I have in my heart and pray for real facts to personally experience. I wonder if he thinks that God loves his lack of kindness to other people that enjoy discussing God's word. I have never thought God wants that kind of action from his children on his behalf. Spewing hate in God's name is not something that has ever been taught in the bible. When someone asks a sincere question or brings contradicting interpretations to the table they do not deserve to be personally attacked here. Personally, I think real facts has so many personal issues that he is missing out on God's love. Too bad we can't help him. God knows some here have tried to be considerate in trying to have an educated adult conversation and debate the topic, but to no avail with "real facts". I suggest real facts seek counsel from his priest, pastor or trusted (level-headed) individual in his life. God loves you, real facts. Re-read the bible, and please, not just the passages that pertain to your belief that gay people are sinners. May God bless you. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:46 AM:

" lodian; the same character traits i busted leonard on, apply to you as well. you feign "nice", and then resort to the same tactics as leonard. you faded in and out of nobility so may times it's dizzying. you call me out, then you do to me what you called me out on. add hypocrite to your resume'. i know, ppl in here are going to come to your defense in here because afterall, YOU said a couple of innocent nice things. people have "selective" memory, i don't. verbage faux paux's here and there, does not necessarily mean a person does not possess integrity. adding consistent things up over time? not good. up until this blog post, your a game player too. only you come in under the radar, wherein leonard seeks to kick down the door. i have your number so far, and until you change your spots, i will treat you the same way you have come at me, based on what your true intentions are. when YOU resort to lying about someones character and you "saddle up" to someone else that did, that shows what i said about you is true. it's amazing how ppl fall all over themselves thinking that ppl who have moments of "nice", somehow think it impossible that person posesses less than noble intentions. while ppl that are overtly biligerant couldn't possibly be "noble". there is only one "truth" meter, and thats the truth. in the form of "nice", or in the form of "harsh". it's STILL the TRUTH. you aren't fully (as of yet) what you claim to be. you are everyting i have said about you. you may be a nice person. but in here, your "nice" has been a cover for your true intentions. i just hold up the mirror "

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Lee wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:42 AM:

" real facts: I bet you're a lot of fun at parties. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 2:20 AM:

" leonard; based on the evidence of the verbage you have either posted at me, or about me, AFTER i chided you for purposefully lying about me, purposefully mis-representing my words to lie about something i never said OR DID, and completely wussing out from answering the question i have asked you for over one year now, i will say the same thing about you that i already said, and was 100% absolutly true about you. you ARE a liar, in that you lied about what i said or did. your a wuss, who when someone you meet, actually calls you out on something, and challenges you to qualify YOUR statements, and you run from it...your a wuss. that is a true statement. your not a noble man either. noble men, with noble intentions qualify themselves. they don't resort to lying about ppl because they "can't" qualify themselves. i have watched your character for over 1 year now, and EVERYTIME you resort to this behavior when someone like me busts you for pulling your baloney "feighned" position(s). when it gets down to it, you could care less about truth. you care about one thing, your rediculously obvious positions in life that are tainted by anger. your a game player, not a truth seeker. demonstrating what you really are is tedious, but a walk in the park. we go back and forth for awhile, then you "spit and sputter" on your way to the gutter, because it's the only place you can resort to. your a time drainer. maybe some day you will have noble intentions, until then when you act "un-noble", you will get what most people are unwilling to do, or cannot do to make sure the real "leonard" has his picture taken for the world to see. sounds arrogant, but it's not (it's the truth)...i am excellant at bringing out the true intentions of any man over time. your subsequent posts after you read this, will only further the fact that you are EXACTLY what i demonstrated you to be. you turn... "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:56 AM:

" ivan dixon, your a trouble causing troll too, who has no intention of anything noble in this blog. obviously. because he "conveigntly" forgot to answer my challenges to him to qualify his OWNSELF, the diatrip he copied from someone else. asked him to answer who wrote it and why? what it's intention was? helped him when i didn't have to, to give him a jump start on actually being able to qualify his position by "who wrote it and why". no answer. none. he must believe it somehow showed that homosexuality is antiquated, or akin to eating "shellfish", et al. completely skated away (so far). you ppl think i am going to sit there and allow you to throw anything you want at me, then skate away? not going to happen. i will hold you to nobility, no matter how many insults you throw at me. ivan, don't be labeled among the graduates of wuss university. YOU came here swinging the big bat via your verbage and post, people high fived you for it, hoping you can reduce Christianity to a "fable". do it, so they can get what they want, so i can keep my word and do what i promised i would do. do it fast before this blog disappears. i am an honest thurough man who will make sure at all costs, that things get hanndled in here the right way. the noble way (because you actually are noble), or the keep you honest way (by systematically exposing your real intentions) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 1:48 AM:

" ("sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:52 PM: I used to think gays were abominations and freaks. I now know that they are loving people who are special just because they breath. That is a result from my life long learning. They are children of God. Peace out"). i totally agree 100%. i never said i hated gays, other people in here have said that about me. not even remotely true. i hate their sin, just as i do every other sin. you could not come up with class of people that i would turn my back on. i love people. though i will not reveal what i do for a living (small town), you people would swallow your tongue if you knew the pleathora of different ppl i deal with day in and day out. alot of times people 180degree's the polar opposite of the choices i make in my life. every walk of life you can imagine. i have ultimate respect in this town BECAUSE of the way i treat people, with respect. respect is earned, and the different ppl in here that i have had to get downtown with are those that had it coming to them, based on thier verbage to me, or thier lying motives. you get my respect, when you don't purposefully lie (about anything), you don't purposefully mock God, and you don't assault my character. you do that, i don't respect you, and i am all about giving you what you came looking for. i respect ppl here that come here for noble reasons. to debate the issues. when i asked a simple question "can ANYONE give me ONE scripture that says homosexaul sex is biblically OK"?, NO ONE came to the table with one (except you sam). that alone showed that ppl in here could careless about truth, and are only in here for two reasons. (1) to discredit Christ and Christianity (2) to yank my chain, and discredit me. i am good with that. but know you met your match when you want to reduce it to that. don't care if you 'agree" with me or not. not my gig. i CAN respect if you don't, IF you are acting like a noble person. when you lie, purposefuly omit, twist and play games with me, WITHOUT qualifying your position and running away, especially demanding i answer questions, when you completely disregard mine, that shows it's not "noble". it's a game these pppl play so they can discredit God/ppl. they could care less about "debate" or "truth". fine. you ppl want to play that way, im your guy. as you can see, i am not a Christian that sits there and takes garbage from anybody. what i said in here, i meant. if i said you were a liar, it's because you are. if you lie, i am going to call you on it, and copy and paste every word you wrote to prove that you did. if your lazy, i am going to say it if it's true. if your a wuss, it's because you are because you run away from a legitimate challenge or question, because either you can't, or you won't. you don't get respect when you run off at the mouth about something, but run away when i ask you to qualify what YOU had said. your a wuss. thats the truth. i tell the truth, and sleep at night because of it. act noble and ask noble questions, qualify your position instead of taking the wuss way out, you will get what you came looking for ...an honest response. play games with me, you will get probably what you "didn't" come looking for (because you are used to Christians NOT standing up for God and themselves), but what you deserve. sam, you came back civily, i responded to you about the ruth - naomi question in kind. the above "rant" was not aimed at you, but was layed out to all. if you fell into any of the categories i described, that would be something you have to deal with. that "truth" thing i alluded to. this post alone will bring to the surface who is here for noble reasons or not. you will be treated commensuretly. be forewarned, you will not get away from skating from the questions i saked you repeatedly to answer, and think you are going to "feign" nobility. i am excellant at picking those with noble intentions out of the bunch, and busting those whose still intent is to play the previous noted "games". i will keep this game fair, by keeping you honest. speaking of honesty... take a hike "billy (ex danny boy) rubin". your not here for anything remotely noble. your nothing but a little trouble causing troll. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:52 AM:

" ("sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:51 PM:So when I ask about Ruth and Naomi, I am not asking for anyone to tell me to do my homework.. life long living learning IS homework. I am honestly asking for your opinion"). the story of ruth and naomi is whats called a "type" in the bible. "types" are spiritual real life metaphors of Christ. either who he is to his creation, or what he will become. the story of the love of ruth and naomi was one that included the deepest of love, two human beings can acheive. poinant was the fact that they WERE the same sex, but excluded sex out of the equation. sex is an expression of love, but only in the context for which God designed it. naomi and ruth demonstrated effective love between them, by purposefully compartmentalizing that love as 'agape' love, not 'eros' love it was never 'sexual' love. they EXACTLY mirrored the love that Christ has for us. that love is redemptive and sacrificial, to the point of death. people who desperatly want to find something that even sniffs of homosexual love, run to this scripture as their "proof". the context of the story (which nobody bothers to read), contains not even a hint of "sexual" love. they want to make dirty, something that God held up as a standard for purset form of redemptive love. pure love, without the complications/distractions that sex "can" create. sam, while i saked you and lodian to do your "homework", it may have sounded blunt. it was. it was because i grow tired of people asking questions they can answer themselves. not because i am unwilling to answer any question, but i don't like it when people play games with me. even despite my "bluntness", it's true. you should do your homework on these issues. why do you think i know what i know? it's because i realize it's important enough to know what this all means. thats where "homework" comes in. if you had googled info on this and put in that effort, you could have answered that question. debates are good, questions are awesome. but sam, don't get sucked into believing ANYTHING without putting in personal effort. despite what you think of me, you know i am right. truth in life is either the truth, or it isn't. it doesn't matter who gives it, or whether or not it's given the way it should be, or if YOU like it or not. God makes the standards, we don't. he decides (and has) what is "truth". if it is, only a fool would turn away from the truths of God "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:19 AM:

" ("leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:47 PM:Lodian: His overwhelming egotism combined with his disregard for Scripture all adds up to an almost sociopathic need to be adulated in Christ's place"). i see you haven't skipped a beat while i was gone. stil resprting to lying about me i see. you do know things you type can be copy and pasted by me to prove your nastiness don't you. or are you so incensed you forget that? i will ask it, but you once again won't do it, because now you have reduced yourself to a swipe hit and run artist ....WHERE did "disregard" any scripture? show me one instance. your lying tongue spit this one out. wanna bet this will be another one you don't address, hoping it will get lost in the pile of blogs. this is rediculous that i have to spend my time making sure i let everyone see the swipe that you have become. i have way more important things to address than having to spend time chasing your childish behavior down "

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real facts wrote on Dec 22, 2007 12:06 AM:

" ("Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:35 PM:" While I've been waiting for The Reverend Facts to get back to blowing Ivan out of the water (which he so richly deserves), I followed the Reverend's advice and Googled Fred Phelps and, do you know what? I think we have a celebrity right here on the blog! Real Facts, or RF for short, is NONE OTHER THAN REVEREND FRED HIMSELF"). hey 'DAN'. whats up? your masquerading now as someone else, because you can't come to the "party" in your previous persona? poor dan. the guy who has no game, who never debates, but just trolls to cause trouble. not man enough to answer any of the questions yourself, so you resort to your nasty accusations huh? i already said it (and you read it !), that phelps was an idiot. anybody that resorts to this kind of behavior is no man. your just a troll. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:55 PM:

" And, Brian, unless you plan on exterminating the gays, they will continue to live among the population and yes, it would be better to educate school children - or they turn out to be ignorant and hateful as you. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:53 PM:

" What Brian conveniently omits from his posts is that the Folsom Street Fair is NOT open to the public. The streets are closed (barricaded) and guarded by private security. Admission is charged. Closed to the general public unless they pay to enter. It is impossible for an innocent family to accidently blunder into the Folsom Street Fair. If Brian saw a stroller there, the forst question I would ask is was there a baby in it? If there was, and the baby was there under the care if his or her legal guardian, then the next question is did the baby have a nice time at the fair. And as for the police being there, Brian needs to think before blowing off his mouth. There were dozens and dozens of police at the Parade of Lights this year. Why? Who paid for them? What about cops that patrol the Grape Festival? Brian, you just don't think before posting. Unless you actually want the government raising your children, you should not cheer for government raising of children. You see, Brian, Michael Weiner Savage says what he says to get you enraged as part of his act - he doesn't tell you the truth. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:46 PM:

" And then you would agree that gay lifestyles should not be part of any school cirriculum? It should go back in the closet. Enough harm has been done. Let them do what they want. But not on my nickel. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:41 PM:

" Believe it or not, I have to go to bed. I have an overseas conference call coming up in a couple of hours and I would like to be alert enough to avoid selling my first born son to these batards. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:39 PM:

" BR:) "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:37 PM:

" Brian: No, I don't agree. I think I have made my position on this quite clear. I don't support the suspension of the law for any group. If gay men want to kiss in public, that is fine by me because there is no law against public kissing. If, on the other hand, gay men or heterosexual couples for that matter, have sex in public, they should be arrested because there are clear laws in most cities against having sex in public. Comprendo? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:35 PM:

" While I've been waiting for The Reverend Facts to get back to blowing Ivan out of the water (which he so richly deserves), I followed the Reverend's advice and Googled Fred Phelps and, do you know what? I think we have a celebrity right here on the blog! Real Facts, or RF for short, is NONE OTHER THAN REVEREND FRED HIMSELF!!! Don't you see? RF! Reverend Fred! It's CODE! It all fits now! The "God Hates Fags" signs and all that! Remember how he wouldn't say what his church was? Well, if he had come out and SAID Westboro Baptist, we would have known right off! I thought The Reverend knew more about the Bible than he was letting on! Shoot! He knows more about the Bible than even God! You guys should take a listen instead of trying to tell him stuff, because he KNOWS!! The powerful, hurtful, painful love of Jesus is just boiling out of him! "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:34 PM:

" Brian: You ask "Where is this generalization that all gays are trouble makers?" Well, at 6:53, you wrote "I feel gays will never be satisfied and they will always have to perpetuate hate for those that don't have enough tolerance for them. Actually, I don't think there is any amount of tolerance to satisfy the gay community" That would, to me, seem like a broad generalization that all gays are troublemakers. If you would like to withdraw or clarify your 6:53 statement, now would be a good time. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:33 PM:

" I don't Leonard. Then you agree that S.F. can suspend laws so gays can be allowed their basic human rights to commit these rude acts in public for all the world to see? Don't forget the stroller in one of those pictures at the fair. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:29 PM:

" You boys aren't old enough but I can remember when whites in the South used to get their panties in a bundle whenever someone would have the audacity to suggest that they were bigots, just because they thought that blacks should have to ride at the back of the bus and drink from different water fountains. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:29 PM:

" Of course let the gays live in peace. I wouldn't have it any different. Where is this generalization that all gays are trouble makers? You can't deny that the gay lobby has a lot of power and influence. This is quite apparent in their ability to have laws suspended for one day to have their gay fair in S.F. And your tax dollars payed for the police protection there. Even though the police has to stand by and watch rude and immoral sexual acts. Their hands were tied. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:27 PM:

" Brian: What I would say is that if someone tries to deprive gays of their basic human rights, they are, most likely, hate mongerers. If you think it is wrong for a man to fall in love with another man, don't fall in love with another man. Don't tell other people, however, who THEY can or cannot love. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:23 PM:

" In any case, what I actually said was that although the surge has brought a temporary lull in the violence, the Bush Administrations failure to reach a political resolution in Iraq has guaranteed that the lull will be just that, temporary. Brian is right about one thing, though, the top commanders in Iraq do join me in decrying Bush's tragic failure to achieve this key objective. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:20 PM:

" Brian: I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion on this subject but instead, all I get is personal attacks. You say I am a monster to my family, that I am a flip flopper, etc, etc, etc. If this is what you call a "serious discussion" I don't think it is really going to work out. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:18 PM:

" Practice what you preach Leonard. It seems to me you have been advancing the notion that if one disagrees with gay lifestyles they are hatemongers. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:14 PM:

" I have to share one of Leonard's latest flip flops. He now is now in agreement with the top generals in Iraq even though some months ago he was confident they were mouthpieces for Bush and the Axis of Incompetence. There's no denying that the surge is working. Perhaps Murtha's visit to Iraq and reporting the surge is working convinced Leonard even though the top generals position on the Iraq has never changed. It seems to me Leonard has a lot of explaining to do. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:05 PM:

" We built a little fence below the tree and Lennyette is not allowed under there until Christmas morning. She loves looking at the thing, though. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:02 PM:

" Brian: When you refer to the "gay community" who, specifically, are you referring to? I know lots of gay people who don't demand anything other than that they be allowed to live in peace. You can see the same sort of thing in the Christian community. There is a small, vocal group of Christians who picket and bomb abortion clinics and commit other acts of terrorism. Would it be fair to call these people the "Christian Community"? Of course not! The vast majority of Christians repudiate their actions and it would be completely unfair to tar the entire community just because of the actions of a small but vocal minority. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:01 PM:

" Leonard, Where's the cheap shot at your family? I was only speculating that since a good part of your blogs have condescending remarks one wonders if your family has to endure the same. You are the king of making assessments and determinations without any real facts to back them up. Yet my mere speculation is just that. Perhaps you should refrain from your speculations also. I would say yours out number mine 10 to 1. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:59 PM:

" Brian and Leonard, if I remember correctly you both have daughters old enough to crawl or walk to your christmas trees and steal an ornament or two... or, if they are anything like my daughter was at that age, pull the whole darn 8 foot tree over. Find some common ground, like gorgeous baby girls, and lets discuss religion. I have tons of questions. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:53 PM:

" Sam, I never thought gays were abominations and freaks. This surprises you? I feel gays will never be satisfied and they will always have to perpetuate hate for those that don't have enough tolerance for them. Actually, I don't think there is any amount of tolerance to satisfy the gay community. They demand respect yet they show no regard for the damage they have done to society as a whole. It seems to me they should be thankful to us for our generous tolerance and not ridicule us for not being tolerant enough. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:47 PM:

" Brian: Chuckle... first you ask me if I want to have a serious conversation and then you bash my family. For this to work, my friend, it has to be a two way street. I will be respectful towards IF you show that same respect towards me. That means no cheap shots at either of our families. Agreed Amigo? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:41 PM:

" Hey, Brian - hey, Brian! So, like when are you going to come to Lodi and teach these people their lesson? I bet you could totally hulk out and show them what real Jesus love is with a fist! Right Brian? That'd be so cool. Just like in the olden Bible times. You could just slew them, you know? And then they'd be laughin' outta the other side of their twisted faces! Right, Bri? Hey, Brian, you're always right! High five! "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:38 PM:

" Leo, Are you really ready for a serious discussion without insulting everyone with condescending remarks. You have an irrepressible urge to make yourself look good by making others look bad. One wonders what your family has to endure given this consistent attribute you proudly display on these blogs. You are much more adept at disagreeing with people. Rather than searching for a common ground on a given issue you stubbornly insist on doing the opposite. I'm grateful God has blessed me with the common sense not to be one of your recruits in your senseless think tank. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:26 PM:

" What is sad is that these blogs could be so powerful if people listened a bit more with their heart and head and answered with an attempt to share information without condemning. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:26 PM:

" Leonard, the "Breathe" was not addressed towards you I always spell it wrong and was correcting myself . But I do agree with your 5:59 comment. I love discussing and learning from others. I feel that my job here is to learn. The older I get the more I love, and I LOVE it. AND, BTW, I do appreciate the way you answer my questions with respect. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:23 PM:

" No Leonard, I won't wish you Merry Christmas. You and your slaves have made a mockery out of this discussion And I won't be succumbed to your self -serving agenda. You preach tolerance yet you are intolerant of those who disagree with gay lifestyles. Your style reminds me of the recent liberal assault on Supreme Court Justice Thomas. J. Kurt Roberts is probably not very happy how you have hijacked this discussion. You've managed to convince many others that your word should be held in higher regard than anyone elses. I commend real facts for enduring you. It is with great sadness that you are happy to brainwash your slaves into thinking that real facts, me, and others who agree with J.Kurt Roberts are hate mongers because we disagree with gay lifestyles. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:59 PM:

" Sam: That is one of the things that I love about growing up and getting older. You can learn and change as you go. I was a typical Lodi kid when I was growing up. I didn't know a single thing about gays but I knew that I didn't like them and that I should ridicule them if I got the chance. Then I moved on and went out into the world. I found that I had gay co-workers and I came to be friends with one of them. One of my favorite cousins turned out to be gay. Christ took the hate from my heart and changed me for the better. He can do it for these people too, if they will just let him in. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:56 PM:

" "breathe" "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:55 PM:

" Brian: And a Merry Christmas to you! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:53 PM:

" Brian: I am totally ready for a serious discussion if you would care to initiate one. I won't call RF a closet case, he can stop calling me a liar and we can go from there and discuss the issues. Bring it on, my friend! "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:52 PM:

" I used to think gays were abominations and freaks. I now know that they are loving people who are special just because they breath. That is a result from my life long learning. They are children of God. Peace out ! "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:51 PM:

" So when I ask about Ruth and Naomi, I am not asking for anyone to tell me to do my homework.. life long living learning IS homework. I am honestly asking for your opinion. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:51 PM:

" After having a frustrating experience at a Catholic University, I spent 2 years of my life going through two bibles, the King James version, and the Catholic version. I had 5 texts of different denominations to explain verses that puzzled me. It was a wonderful experience and the more read, the more I realized the less I knew. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:51 PM:

" I have no desire to be preached at by someone who thinks they have all the answers. I honestly ask questions to get an honest view. I may not agree with that view, but I do respect the person for giving me his/her honest response. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:51 PM:

" I am not an expert in religion. I was raised to belief what was crammed down my throat without being able to question a thing. Now I realize I have the ability to seek out knowledge, ask questions, and even debate ideas. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:50 PM:

" I love discussing people's beliefs and trying to understand their differences. Open and honest discussion leads to enlightenment. If we do not share the same beliefs, it does not mean that you are wrong and I am right, or that you are bad and I am good. It means we differ in our beliefs. "

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sam wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:50 PM:

" I think a lot of intelligent people have made some excellent remarks on this blog. (I am not referring to the sarcastic and rude ones). I know what I take away from these blogs is that people have a lot of different beliefs and views on who God is and what it means to be a true follower of their God. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:47 PM:

" Lodian: You asked why the Reverand Facts (I like that one) needs us to agree with him so badly. I think the truth is that RF doesn't want us to worship Christ he wants us to worship RF. His overwhelming egotism combined with his disregard for Scripture all adds up to an almost sociopathic need to be adulated in Christ's place. "

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WudbridgGal wrote on Dec 21, 2007 5:17 PM:

" Hey! What`s wrong with being lezbian? Don`t knock it til you`ve tried it!! "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 4:38 PM:

" Lodian, you need to come out of the closet! Just admit that you`re a turd burglar! I mean there`s nothing wrong with being a noodle gazer. Just come clean. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 4:06 PM:

" Scrutiny: BTW, I don't use "gay-dar". You sound like you know all about it thought. Has it been used on you frequently? Poor guy. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 4:03 PM:

" If you go back and at least scan all the posts here you can see that "real facts" get's completely crazy. He rants, he raves and he insults... all in the name of God, God's word?? What a poor misguided soul. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 4:00 PM:

" Brian: I tried to be "nice" and converse with real facts as an adult and he went off on me. Real facts no longer deserves any respect here. His name calling and attacks have lost him any sliver of credibility he may have had in the beginning. He dug himself a hole and he can't get out so he attacks everyone else. He makes things up as he goes and gets personal when people disagree with his biblical references. he's now a joke. Sad. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:58 PM:

" Scrutiny: Thank you. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:57 PM:

" real facts is sleepin' it off. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:48 PM:

" BTW, Lodian, that is a very creative moniker! How were you able to come up with such an original and truly definitive handle? Does it have something to do with your gay-dar? "

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brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:40 PM:

" It's too bad Leonard has dragged this discussion down to his level all for his self serving agenda. It seems to me he doesn't want to have an intelligent coversation. Leonard are you really an adult? It seems to me your childish attributes are more of a priority than sharing your admirable attributes. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:22 PM:

" real facts: Why do you care so much about what we think and that we agree with you and your views? Answer the question. Stop calling me a liar, lazy and uneducated on this topic. You do not have clue as to how to relate to your fellow man. Have you been taught to behave this way or did you just become bitter all on your own? Answer the question. You whine about people calling you names, but you are doing the best job of it here in calling everyone else names and getting personal with all your attacks on character and integrity. I think you are avoiding answering the questions posed to you because you don't have an answer. You've just decided that a homosexual is someone that is immoral and that's that. You have twisted the bible into fitting your own agenda. Address that comment. I am really starting to feel sorry for you. I think you seem like a very lonely and sad person. I have tried to be courteous to you and not jump down your throat in the same way you have attacked me, but you just do not appreciate a "normal" dialogue. You think that ranting and raving makes you sound credible, but it just makes you sound desperate for attention and guidance. You have put so much effort into blogging on this topic, why? Answer the question. You do not want to converse about the bible. You just want to put others down, constantly. I hope you can find peace in your life because you sure seem like a very angry and bitter man. Are you a man? Answer the question. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:08 PM:

" Neo: Merry Christmas to you and, heck, I'll throw in a Happy New Year for free. God Bless! -Lenny "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:59 PM:

" Neo: Are you okay? "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:59 PM:

" It`s now obvious that Lodi needs a Gay Pride Day. Ivan, Lodian, would you two care to be honorary chairman of the Formulating Committee? I think the good people of Lodi are in need of such a progressive and enlightening event. Don`t you think? Just think! We could be in the same league as those open-minded San Franciscans!! Who`s with me on this? Let`s do it!! Lodi deserves to be put on the map as the Homosexual capitol of the world!! "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:46 PM:

" Please, for the sake of St Pete! Say Merry Christmas, Lodian! "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:45 PM:

" Now he's gone and he still hasn't answered a single dog gone one of my questions. I could be surrounded by menustrating women at this very moment and I wouldn't even know it. My soul is in peril and all this fellow can do is go on and on about how he wasn't really offering greek homosexual sex when he offered that guy greek homosexual sex. Well I guess we should just be glad that it was Lenny and not a vice cop he propositioned, I don't think that argument would hold up very well in court. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:05 PM:

" Metric: As Lodian pointed out, I never underestimated GOD. And as Leonard pointed out, just which version is the supposed INTACT one? Is there a special mark on it? I believe it much more productive - and less divisive - to focus on the MESSAGE of Christ's teachings. Somehow, I don't think insulting people is Christ's idea of inviting them to the Church. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:50 PM:

" Aw, c'mon you guys! Reverend Facts is trying to answer Ivan's post! But he has company over at the house and has only had time to post 67 times (not very many, really) since he said he answers all questions and that he would answer it. Let's all be real quiet for a minute and I bet The Reverend Facts will reappear and answer every point Ivan made. And while we wait for that, did anybody other than me notice that Brian seems to want to make physical contact with some of the other posters here? Yikes, he sounds violent. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:43 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:28 PM:RF: All you have to do is give us some context (any context) in which your comment that (and I Quote)"i gotcha some greek homosexual sex" makes sense as anything other than a come on"). probably so, to YOU in your twisted mind. now that makes perfect sense. it would be what YOU would get out of something like that. notice i copy and pasted EVERY WORD that you posted? thats what noble people do. liars and slanderers have to leave out portions of what people say, so they can lie about it. the full in context full sentence version that i actually wrote, that you purposefull keep from quoting in it's entirety ..."i gotcha some greek homosexual sex "no no answers" for you tomorrow. in it's entirety, you "forgot" to add the part (I put in parenthesis) in your assertion of what i said. the greek containd verbage that affirms that homosexual sex is a "no no". you knew EXACTLY what i meant, but twisted my words to mean something else. only black hearted people resort to that. lie about me al you want. your just heaping judgement on your own life. i will be glad to bust you all day long for being the inetgrity missing wuss that you have become. if it comes down to it (which it has because now you can't defend your position), i will be happy to take out the trash. it reeks of nasty character. gotta go to work now. here's your free pass to lie unabated (until i return) about me. it's what you have become anyway. what a pathetic life you have chosen for yourself "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:35 PM:

" A good place to start would be with a response to Ivan's awesome post. The man asked you a lot of questions and you haven't answered a single one of them. Lets leave off with all the messy personal stuff. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:33 PM:

" RF: Do you have anything useful to add to this discussion? All you ever seem to do here is call other posters liars and make sexually provocative statements. Perhaps we could leave all your personal baggage aside and get back to discussing the issue at hand? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:31 PM:

" RF: When I said that I thought you were perhaps drunk (not "a drunk") I was TRYING to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought that, maybe, the effects of a drinking binge had caused you to say something that would have otherwise been out of character. You can deny that you were drunk and, for all I know, you were stone cold sober but I want you to know that I was trying to be nice to you when I made the suggestion. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:31 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:51 AM: " Chuckle.... Has anyone else noticed that while RF constantly whines about how we haven't answered his questions (although I think we have, repeatedly) he NEVER answers our questions? I suspect that it is because he can't but it still makes a funny little juxtaposition"). another of your lies. i have been asking you the same question since near to the start of this blog. YOU still have yet to biblically qualify and define sexual immorality. now your lying about my answering yours (and others) questions, when YOU refuse. more of the same. you have to lie, because now you can't defend your position. show me ONE question i haven't answered? one question that i haven't got to on this blog. i was working my way up from where i left off last night, when i had to stop and deal with YOUR willfull ineptiTUDE. qualify your lie right here, by proving i didn't answer anybodys question. your self imploding now. go crawl back under your rock and when you can act with integrity, come back and tell the truth. your losing yourself "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:28 PM:

" RF: All you have to do is give us some context (any context) in which your comment that (and I Quote)"i gotcha some greek homosexual sex" makes sense as anything other than a come on. The fact is, however, that you can't do it and all of this huffing and puffing is just a smokescreen to obscure what you said. The thing is, we all see through it. Even Brian gave up on you after he read that comment. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:24 PM:

" leonard; no apology from you about intentionally mis-quoting me so you can discredit me? no apologies from you about calling me a "drunk". i hand you a golden opportunity to pull you back in line about being a person with integrity. lets see what you do "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:22 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:48 AM:" RF: OK... so what DID you mean when you wrote ""i gotcha some greek homosexual sex"? I've read your post several times and I can't find anything in the context that suggests any other meaning than the obvious one. That said, to be fair, I want to give YOU the opportunity to explain what you meant"). you still can't quote me directly and accuretly? is your current ill depravity that bad that you can't quote me entirely and in context? don't be a wuss of a man. do things right, or don't do them at all. ask me the question the right way ....with integrity. in a couple of minutes, i have to go to work. so don't play YOUR game and think i ran away. unlike you, i quote people verbatim so they see in the mirror the intellectualy dishonest people that they are, and i skate away from no one. (unlike you) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:16 PM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:53 AM: RF: So, are you saying that you were sober when you were hitting on me last night? That actually makes the whole thing a little bit scarier"). despite me proving you purposefully twisted my words to say something i didn't say OR inply, here's another shining example of the man that you are. can't answer the challenges i laid before you, so this behavior is all that left in your bagless bag-o-tricks. you know leonard, you feighn belief in Christ. yet for over 1 year now anytime i see YOU debate with anybody about the bible, it's to DISPROVE what it says. does that make sense to anybody else BUT leonard. you set about DISPROVING something YOU claim YOU "believe"? that alone shows your ful of it. your all about global warming. countless posts defending your position by bringing every "fact" about that you can google, to the table. social issues that YOU believe in, a plethora of leonards "proof". bush hating, and political meanderings? just ask leonard. the guy vehetemly spends hours on that one. the "bible"? your verbage about it is ALWAYS aimed at discounting it, NOT PROVING it's authority OR validation as a believer in Jesus Christ. i can see that your characyer would be in line, had you just claimed that you DIDN'T believe. unfortunately for you your true colors about what you really are, did ....when you claimed you "were" a believer. your full of it, and an even frank-ER comment, a liar. Jesus Christ wouldn't have even been born, had it not been for the fullfillment of the law and prophecies of the O.T., making the O.T. literally Gods word. and you still continue to skate on the sexual immorality question i asked you. the greek defines INCLUDES in the sweeping blanket of that text, that ANY sex outside of marriage between a mna AND a woman is strictly forbidden. ANY. i wll bet you , you lied about possessing a greek bible as well. you lie, it's who you have become "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:00 PM:

" lodian; i play fair. tell you what, i will give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe someone ripped those particular pages out of the bible YOU have, out of anger and willfull exclusion. i am a good guy with noble intentions. provide me a way to send you some $$$$, so that you can go to the bible book store and purchase a new one. you pick which you like, and i will pay for it. but ONLY if you promise to take it home and actually read it. i am not into wasting money. deal? pretty sweet deal considering you called me a drunkard. in your new bible with ALL the pages INTACT, we will do a "study" on what constitues biblical character. leonard can peek in the window while we are "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:53 AM:

" RF: So, are you saying that you were sober when you were hitting on me last night? That actually makes the whole thing a little bit scarier. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:53 AM:

" (Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:06 AM: " real facts: Please read this carefully (again) so you can't say I didn't answer your question. I have read the bible and have done my homework. There is nothing there that tells me that being a homosexual is forbidden or immoral. A gay person is not a sinner, immoral or forsaken by God just because they are gay. The proof you have offered is not convincing whatsoever"). well then me being the no holds barred straight up guy that i am, your a liar. because it's not like your blind, and you have an excuse. it's not like there are "interpretation" issues. that whole portion of leviticus goes into great detail about MANY sexual sins, noting each one of them one by one. your a straight up liar. you either have never read it, or did AND are lying about it. there is nothing hateful or arrogant about straight calling you a liar. you lied. but thats your illness. having to lie about something because you can't accuretly defend, is off the scale NOT "noble". you qoute biblical passages, then "feign" blindness. do you possess other virtues? telling the truth doesn't seem like one of yours "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:51 AM:

" Chuckle.... Has anyone else noticed that while RF constantly whines about how we haven't answered his questions (although I think we have, repeatedly) he NEVER answers our questions? I suspect that it is because he can't but it still makes a funny little juxtaposition. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:48 AM:

" RF: OK... so what DID you mean when you wrote ""i gotcha some greek homosexual sex"? I've read your post several times and I can't find anything in the context that suggests any other meaning than the obvious one. That said, to be fair, I want to give YOU the opportunity to explain what you meant. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:46 AM:

" (Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:18 AM:" Since Reverend Facts has been completely unable to address Ivan Dixon's questions, can't any of the real Christians here do it for him? Admiral Brian? C'mon, Bri! Knock one outta the park for Jesus"). can't do you your own "dirty work" billy? hoping someone will take out the trash for you? your lazy. how about you take a "swing" at ivan's comments, seeing how intrigued you are. looks like you can handle the english language well enough. most Christians (unfortunately) are afraid of going the distance with people like you. i don't suffer from that "problem". man up. instead of goading people into doing something YOU should do, do it yourself. you parrot stuff that a poster i used to deal with (and is "supiciously" missing. he talked trash, but when challenged to act like a real person and debate his position, he ran away. your not a cousin of his, are you? don't think you can come here and take a swing at me, and then not get something in return "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:38 AM:

" (Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:33 AM: " Leonard: Drunk? I never thought of that, but it may be true. It would sure explain his rantings"). stellar character you have lodian. your moral personal-realtivity "compass" must be busted "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:35 AM:

" (Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:44 AM: " real facts is sleeping in due to being up very late last night. Hangover"). you spent how many posts last night passing yourself off as "noble". what a waste of time and effort for you. these kinds of "nuggets" prove you ain't. here's another thing you need to do, since you have quoted the bible in here, and pretend to know what it says ("doesn't" say); show me where it's OK to lie about a persons character, because you can't defend your own? while your at it, show me ONE TIME where i didn't tell the truth about someone, thier behavior, or twisted their words. you people are weak, and thats the truth "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:28 AM:

" ivan; now that you pushed your chest out for the n'th time, where is the answer to my challenges of you? you didn't graduate from wuss university like leonard did you? your posts to me have been sarcastic, nasty and slanderous. so now that you have made yourself out to be the great anti-god "hope" in here, man up. let's see you qualify something YOU posted. you don't get away with that cheap hit and run baloney in here. if you are going to play, i am going to make sure you play this game honorably. qualify what those partcicular scriptures meant, and where intended for? who wrote them? and why? you think your going to post something and then just sit back. not gonna happen. i want to see you embarrass yourself, before i do it for you. and another thing. i asked you FIRST a question BEFORE you posted your diatrip. you skated. when dealing with me, NO ONE gets away with hit and run. you answer THAT question. you play fair, or you can crawl back under your anti-God rock. don't disappoint all your "fans" in here, who are licking their chops thinking you have me. give them what they want. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:18 AM:

" leonard; your lying tongue precludes you. because you wuss out at answering my challenges to you, you now resort to purposefully lying about what i said. purposefully lying and twisting peoples is evil. you can't act humane. you have to slither now in orderto maintain your presence in here. pathetic, but right in line with your LACK of character. your partner in "crime" (lodian) tried last night to pass her intentions of as being "noble". what a crock. she "high fived you all over when you slandered me about being "drunk". both of you aren't here for noble reasons. noble people don't purposefully lie about peoples character. you two seem to have no problem lying about anything. here is what YOU said i said...("leonard; Brian: RF said at 3:00 AM (and I quote) "i gotcha some greek homosexual sex"). you purposefully completely lied by NOT quoting me entirely. you purposefully left out the remainder of what i said, to pass it off that i made some "drunken" homosexual sex reference. your one sick puppy. i may get in your face, and choose words commensuretly. but in one year i have NEVER lied about anybody, or twisted thier words so that i can lie about them. your sick. it underscores that you have no game. you can't even answer a simple easy question. instead, you bag on something that has nothing to do with "truth" (my "syntax", et al), because you are unable to righteously defend your position. just so you can't get away with your tripe, here is EXACTLY what i said in context verbatim without your ability to lie about it ...the REAL words---->("i gotcha some greek homosexual sex no no answers for you tomorrow"). you conveignetly "forgot" that part huh? sometimes, evil is your only "friend". Jesus in the gospels address' evil lying tongue's as well. calls people like you "a brood of vipers". he wasn't being "cuddly" or "tolerant" about people then. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 21, 2007 11:06 AM:

" Wow! I guess I'd be wary of any blogs written right after the bars close. I hope he didn't drive home. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:44 AM:

" real facts is sleeping in due to being up very late last night. Hangover? "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:18 AM:

" Since Reverend Facts has been completely unable to address Ivan Dixon's questions, can't any of the real Christians here do it for him? Admiral Brian? C'mon, Bri! Knock one outta the park for Jesus! "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:10 AM:

" Metric: This is an interesting idea but many of the versions of the Bible out there vary from one another to a lesser or greater degree. Which version is it that God has kept intact and how do you know? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 9:06 AM:

" real facts: Please read this carefully (again) so you can't say I didn't answer your question. I have read the bible and have done my homework. There is nothing there that tells me that being a homosexual is forbidden or immoral. A gay person is not a sinner, immoral or forsaken by God just because they are gay. The proof you have offered is not convincing whatsoever. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 8:52 AM:

" real facts: WWJD? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 8:49 AM:

" Metric Time System: I don't think anyone here underestimates God for one second. It's the people that translate God's word that are fallible. "

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Metric Time System wrote on Dec 21, 2007 8:42 AM:

" To nylodian: here's a re-post from me concerning the authenticity of the Bible: I believe God is powerful enough to keep the integrity of His Word wholly pure and intact. He used men to pen it and men to compile it. God uses people for His purpose and glory. I think it would be absurd to think that God spoke the universe into existence, yet could not keep His holy word to us from being compromised. In summary, language translations have occurred, etc., but the meaning as never changed. Don't underestimate God. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:38 AM:

" To be honest, I was a little shocked. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:33 AM:

" Leonard: Drunk? I never thought of that, but it may be true. It would sure explain his rantings. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:15 AM:

" Real "facts": How is my comment that the Bible has been transposed, translated and edited by fallible humans NOT true? Do you have the original copy written by God Himself, 'cause that would be pretty neat. I'm ignorant? Maybe, but I would at least show a better grasp of grammar before I fling that term at someone else. Have one of Lodian's cookies. I bet they're yummy and might help you get into the Christmas Spirit. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:08 AM:

" To be fair to RF, I got the feeling at the time that he might be drunk. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:07 AM:

" Brian: Just for the record, I do not hate you. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:06 AM:

" Brian: RF said at 3:00 AM (and I quote) "i gotcha some greek homosexual sex". Seriously, I couldn't make this stuff up. He then followed this comment up with "no answers for you tomorrow." making it clear that his solicitation was not part of any serious discussion. Frankly, I would be happy if the LNS would delete RF's original inappropriate remark. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 7:05 AM:

" Leonard, you're really an insult to our intelligence. Take your toys and go home. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:59 AM:

" leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:51 AM: " As for your generous offer of "greek homosexual sex" I feel I must decline on the grounds that A) I don't swing that way and B) if I did, I definitely wouldn't be into the self hating closet cases. " Lodi News Sentinal!!! this is an outright blatant insult directed at Real Facts. We should not stand for this. You now know our email addresses. Please rid us of the tripe we have to endure from Leonard once and for all. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:54 AM:

" Leonard, it seems to me you're content coming back with you're childish remarks. Put your money where your mouth is. I highly doubt you have a chance against Real Facts OR me. I know someone who knows much more about the bible than you do. I'll bring him along and see how many rounds you can go with him. Given you'll probably not last a round with Real Facts, you may have to concede defeat before the next match. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:48 AM:

" Brian: Just for the record, I don't hate you. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:48 AM:

" Real Facts, Leonard has become so confident with his insults I wonder if he will use the same tactic in person. There comes a time when we have to put our cards on the table. I suspect Leonard has been toying with us for quite some time with a pair of twos. I doubt he will ever be able to discuss this issue truthfully and without a political and or self-serving agenda. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:48 AM:

" Chuckle.... I don't know if you read RF's post from 3:00 AM but I can assure you that I am not biting anything that RF offers me. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 6:39 AM:

" Real Facts, we'll have to excuse Leonard. He is so consumed with hate for us it has blinded him. My thesis on homosexuality was only speculative. It was apparent that Scout had a challenge for me and I took it. Leonard now accuses me of wanting it both ways. Perhaps we should arrange a time to sit down with Leonard and have a discussions about this issue. Bring all your bibles Leonard, and your concordnances too. When I make it to Lodi some time next year I'll contact Leonard through his email. It seems to me the only way to settle this dispute is in person. Leonard, Real Facts has stood strong against you. I really think you are biting off more than you can chew. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:54 AM:

" RF: I am hardly "worrying myself to death" about your inability to capitalize. My only concern is that the practice makes your really, really, really long posts even more unintelligible than they would otherwise be. I often sense that you are trying to convey some sort of message but your poor writing and bad syntax so obscure your meaning as to make many of your posts indecipherable. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:51 AM:

" As for your generous offer of "greek homosexual sex" I feel I must decline on the grounds that A) I don't swing that way and B) if I did, I definitely wouldn't be into the self hating closet cases. "

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leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:49 AM:

" ROTFLMAO!!! RF: If you have the Book of Matthew in Aramaic then that really is something since almost all contemporary scholars, based on analysis of the Greek in the Gospel of Matthew and use of sources such as the Greek Gospel of Mark, have concluded that the New Testament Book of Matthew was written originally in Greek and is not a translation from Hebrew or Aramaic. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 3:00 AM:

" leonard; the "greek" huh? man you just dug yourself an even deeper "i have no idea biblical" grave. i will take your "greek", and raise you aramaic, latin, german or spanglish if you think that going to give you wiggle room. the greek self indicts you more. poor guy. i warned you in other blogs you ought not play this "imposter christian" game with me, but you insist by opening mouth, inserting desert sandal. i gotcha some greek homosexual sex no no answers for you tomorrow. rest up, you got alot of excuses to make up tomorrow as well. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:50 AM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:28 AM: RF: Did I miss some Levitical prohibition against capitalizing the first letter of a sentence or did you just never learn how to write"). this was your response for both me busting you on your unwillingness to be a man and answer the question. "capitilization". wow leonard. you continue to show you have no game, by worrying yourself to death about whether i capitalize my letters properly. no wonder you have no idea what the bible really says. your so busy putting effort into things that are completely unimportant. your a work of art leonard. i don't recall that "we" will be tested in heaven on such things. anything in the gospels you trust about capitalization? i hope not. according to the "gospel" of leonard, i am in deep trouble. leonard, you have become a laughingstock of intellectual no game zero. you should be proud of yourself. my grammar and punctuation is goofy i know, but my biblical adhereance is right on. can't wait for the "real" test. you get an "F" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:39 AM:

" i am on the dec 20 2:19pm post, working my way up. i will answer every question i can as i catch up to them, and a few i read around the ones when i post. looking forward to ivan coming back and playing the game fair. he is going to qualify (instead of getting away with his copy and paste job) of all his little diatrip. plus ivan is going to answer my question i asked him to, pre-diatrip. don't try the "i didn't see that post" game with me, and think you are going to shirk your responsibility. you will, i assure you. then i will handle my business. bed time. tomorrow, my dream in here is to actually witness ONE person act nobley, by answering my questions i have given them, and qualifying biblically what they say, seeing how you all keep typing out Gods word when it suits you. maybe if i promise to drop dead of a heart attack if you did it, that would be incentive enough for you people to do it. God knows (literally) that you people wish i wouldn't keep reminding you that you are sinning against God, by shirking HIS standards. anyone know CPR ? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:35 AM:

" LOL!!!! That Brian.... what a joker! First, homosexuality is wrong because it is unnatural. Now its wrong because it is natural? Make up your mind boy, you can't have it both ways. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:31 AM:

" RF: Your entire post is flawed, a fact that was confirmed when I fished out my Greek Bible and gave the passage a once over twice. Look at the Greek and show me a single word that is used in reference to homosexuality. Then we will talk, me with grammatically correct sentences and you with improper capitalization. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:28 AM:

" RF: Did I miss some Levitical prohibition against capitalizing the first letter of a sentence or did you just never learn how to write? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:23 AM:

" Leonard; your post on Dec 20 2:19 PM was your biggest wuss-a-thon yet. the only "thought" you gave it was how you once again could skate from answering the question. whats "fundementally flawed" about the words directly out of the mouth of the one YOU claim allegiance to? i asked you what the definition of something that Christ said himself (sexual immoarality), and you come up with that? that doesn't even make sense. you would think with your level of intelligence that you could have come up with "something" that was even close to making sense. what a joke your position has become, that you cannot explain something so easy to explain. if there is one thing, you are consistent in demonstarting my accusations about you are true. you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to biblical anything. you spout and spew, but you can't answer a simple question. your so intellectually dishonest now, it's sickening. it's your life to masquerade, not mine "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 2:11 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:40 AM: " real facts: Please explain to us why you only latch on to the topic of homosexuality to strongly, and with such "penchance", when it is not remotely clear anywhere in the bible that God forbid it"). read leviticus 20:13 and romans 1:27 and say that again. did you actually read those passages? there are in the bible. they are not in national geographic. both verses are clear, there is no excuse for "interpretations" or "opinions". it's eeven in english. you won't read it, so i will type the verbatim words so you cannot say that without lying about it ever again...(lev),"if a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, it is an abomination". sex between males. doesn't get any more descriptive than that. doesn't leave anything to be "interpreted". it's no no. i want you to read romans 1 yourself. God is through there. he also not only references sex between two males as a no no (verse 27). he specifically says it's a no no between two females (that has to make MTV mad). YOU have made these claims that the bible doesn't say it, now back up those claims. show me how those read any other way that what is there. just so you know i am not so fumed about homosexuality, i will prove to you i am not by providing many scriptures that denounce devian heterosexual sex. see, i play fair. this is not a gay thing, this about the integrity of Gods word, and what that word calls "sin". lets see you bcak it up. and don't chicken out by squeeling and yelling "wolf". people do that to shirk thier own personal responsibity "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:56 AM:

" (scout wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:26 AM: " Brian: 5% of all mammals are homosexual. (This is a fact"). ahhhh you forgot something. maybe you forgot it purposefully, or willingly. i dunno. bought to find out though. this is a trumpet heralded by people hoping it "proves" homosexual sex is "natural". occurs in nature, it must be, right? not so fast pro-homosexaul sex hombres. it DOES occur in nature, but if you are going to be intellectualy honest about it, it's not what you were hoping it meant. ever hear of sex for plaesure VS. sex for "dominance"? sex for dominance occurs in nature for sure, no question. homosexual sex for pleasure among the animal kingdom, does NOT occur. just like humans. animals acting beyond their design, just so they can dominate another of the same sex. animals don't have a soul, so "sin" is not their undoing. thier undoing is directly related to acting outside thier design, and ultimately paying the price for doing so, which is eventually death. homosexual sex for plaesure is ONLY witnessed in human beings. homosexual sex (even in animals) is not natural. but it does occur. brian did make a good point. ANYBODY (hetero OR homosexual) that is led around by their body functions and cannot keep it in check as per Gods design, is acting just like the animal explanation above. please take careful note people, i equalized my statement to include deviant HETERO sex behavior, so you can't (once again) accuse me of "hating gays". i hate sin. it is an equal opportunity employer "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:35 AM:

" lodian; the hypocrisy of you being here, and making the statements YOU make, is that on several occasions YOU trumpeted out bible verse to suit your dig at me and others. then when i showed you biblical verese that say directly that homosexual sex is a no no, you get all upset that i do. you can hold me accountable all day long. when i do you, you cry wolf. what kind of person are you? like i am the bad guy for busting you on your hypocrisy. thats what i mean. you people trumpet out Gods word when it suits you, and high five each other. then when i bust you for it, and steer you to what the bible says (not "my" words, nor my "interpretattion"), you either cry wolf or slither away from it. if you had actually read what i told you to read, and you actually debated what it meant, i would have respected you. you DIDN'T. and because you refuse to, shows you are in here for less than nonble persons. and people like that, are going to get busted for it. you can count on it "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:25 AM:

" ("Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:12 AM: real facts (1:29pm): Yes, it does sound like you hate people that are gay. Being penchant is one thing, but you sound consumed with the subject of people that are gay. Where does it say that being gay is a sin?"). this is YOUR words. i answered that i don't hate gays. provided proof that i didn't. what do you do? you keep lying about my character (by continually insisting and saying that i do)and the only reason a person does that, is to discredit them and shut them up. the noble way to "shut a person is up", is to live up to thier own words, by debating the issue. you don't debate, you run. i asked you questions and you refused to answer them. now your babbling on and on. you make statements your unwilling to qualify. your too lazy to read what the bible does say after i gave you chapter and verse, then you lie and say it doesn't say that because YOU didn't read it. i called you on it and you get mad. oh well, it's the price i pay for dealing with people who don't have character. at least not on this issue. you need to quit wasting our time and find something else to do. i know i am not about to waste my time and much longer. pretty soon you can bable all you want...for once, read leviticus 20:13 and tell me with a staright face "it doesn't say that". otherwise, find another thing to do with your time. there's no talking sense to anybody thats willfully blind "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:10 AM:

" Well, it's late and my cookies are all done....and quite yummy I might add. Night all. Oh, and... Merry Christmas! :-) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:09 AM:

" "sam wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:14 AM: Ivan, superb blog. Amen"). superb huh? i hope your not going to be disappointed when i address ivan's "triumpful" entry, and it's not the burial cloth of real facts you were hoping it was. not so fast sam. you should have done what i suggested you do BEFORE you clapped "amen" (your own homework). ivan thinks he "has me". but what ivan doesn't know, is that ivan's little diatrip plays right into me hands. nice. been baiting dan to play that game with me for a very long time. can i ask you a legitimate question sam? since YOU claimed (in these blogs) that YOU are a "Christian", do you think it wise to ride the coatails of those who don't know squat about what the bible really says? or is it more wise to actually think for yourself, and especially know what you believe before you embrace it? better yet, adjust to the truths of God over men? seems to me if i have this God thing right, you won't be standing in front of "ivan dixon" when you die. nope. ivan dixon doesn't know God. could care less about God. willfully lies about anything God related (so far), and YOU just aligned yourself with him. good job sam. picking ivan dixon over YOUR savior Jesus Christ. sam, your a Christian, you should know what's what in ivan's diatripe. don't you? i saked you to show me ONE scripture that Ok's homosexuality. you asked to qualify your implication and accusation that naomi and ruth had a homosexual relationship. you bailed. you got time to high five the anti-christ's though. God would be so proud of your Godly integrity. what people? i tell the truth. be willing to qualify yourself, or don't play at all. don't run sam. God requires you to take a stand for him, and for truth. (unless you also purchased a bible from leonard that has the pages ripped out) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 1:08 AM:

" Geez, real facts. There ya go again. Your belittling tone and rude responses (for no reason) keep coming back. So, when did you get to be the superior being that gets to decide whether my questions and/or comments are worthy of you? You have a hard time relating to people I see. I know people like you. They talk and talk and talk and never really listen. I don't believe I have not answered any questions of you. Yet, there are plenty that you have not answered of me. That's your choice, but don't go off on some rant that I don't answer questions and you do! Get off that high horse of yours and come and down to relate to the real people around you. Or are you afraid that one of us is gay? I have never demanded anything of you, yet you constantly demand answers from me. You accuse others of what you do yourself. Don't you see that? Probably not. Maybe if you relax and let God's word really enter your heart you might see that you are barking up the wrong tree in being so penchant about this topic, as you try to convince all that homosexuality is immoral. It bothers you that I disagree, doesn't it. Are you one of those Christians that just says oh that person is going to hell and I'm not because I am moral? You might be wise to reevaluate friend. I can see you shaking your finger at me right now. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:59 AM:

" real facts needs a cookie. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:57 AM:

" Neo: I am Lodian, and only Lodian on these boards. Besides, there is a new log-in system so we can just be ourselves, with a cute little handle and all! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:55 AM:

" Neo: Yes, you may have too much time on your hands. LOL Me? I'm doing some baking... have a cookie. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:53 AM:

" real facts: I have met many people that say they are Christians, but that doesn't make it true. And I am not "trumpeting" anything to discredit you. I'm just sharing an honest observation. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I'm just out to discredit you personally. Maybe most people do not tell you the truth as they see it since you seem so volatile on this topic. Many probably do not want to engage you as they think you may blow up when the conversation gets going. That's no way to spread the word, real facts. You try to make anyone that disagrees with you, namely me here this evening, by calling my responses an "evil task to discredit" you. You say "you people" resort to our game here because we can't biblically defend our position. Well, for one thing "we people" are just like you, a child of God. Stop trying to separate people. And this is no game. I say there is nothing that tells me that a homosexual is a sinner just because he is gay. You are the one that needs to prove your point as I don't see the proof. Just because you say it is God's word does not make it so. Your personal interpretation is not that of everyone else. Some disagree with you and that doesn't make us all wrong. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:51 AM:

" (Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:36 AM: " So, real facts, are you and Neo one in the same?"). what? no. it takes me a rediculous amount of time to type as it is. i am not like some of these people in here that think it's funny to play childish games. this is serious stuff. i don't have the time to take on two personas. plus i don't hide behind anything. to be honest, you need to quit wasting time asking questions like that. it drains time as i make sure i answer peoples questions and challenges. if you are here for noble reasons, than start by answering questions put to you. you spit out opinions and questions, and make demads that people like me answer you, yet you skate on ones i asked you. don't waste our time. i am working my way to the top, and when i read my blog to see that it appeared, i see your question. do YOUR part in here lodian. and try to gear your questions toward something that will actually get us to where we are supposed to go in here...towards the truth "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:44 AM:

" Lodian, we ALL obviously have WAAAY too much time on our hands!! Are you and "Ivan Dixon" the same?? Do you have something against saying "Merry Christmas:"? Is that an act of sacrilige to you? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:42 AM:

" ("Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:13 AM: " Brian: You really are slow this morning. AGAIN.... the point isn't that homosexuality didn't exist in Christ's day as it did and was openly discussed by Christ's contemporaries. The point is that Christ himself never mentioned the concept in any of his teachings"). nope. big fat perpetual lie. he did. you do remember that scripture (in the GOSPELS that you "trust") that i gave you, where Jesus' own words were recorded speaking about sexual immorality? what did Jesus mean leonard? what IS the biblical definition of sexual immorality? since it's "sexual", he is obviously referring to sex. what kinds of sex are "immoral"? you always claim you know, yet you skate from this answer. should be cake leonard. YOUR Lord and Master (so you claim) said those exact words. now what? you cannot skate away like you used to, by saying the bible was only a book of "fables", because IN THIS BLOG, YOU said you only trusted the gospels. well, Jesus in the "your gospels" said those words. since he is God, and God doesn't say anything he doesn't mean, what did he mean? if you think i am being too hard on leonard, watch him skate away again. he knows now i have him painted totally in the corner, and if he answers it correctly (biblically), it proves he's full of it. he won't. not because he can't, because he won't. i play fair, so i will fully disclose to you (instead of entrapment), i have so much biblical "ammo" on the immorality issue and definition, that either way, your gig is up. you walk away, it shows you ain't got zip (unlike you claim you do). you stay and play the game like a noble guy should, your going to see that you were way off on the subject of homosexual sex, and Christ "never" alluding to it (a lie you have made numerous times in here alone). man up leonard. you are never at a loss for words, or putting people in their place. this is your time to shine (or rust) "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:36 AM:

" So, real facts, are you and Neo one in the same? "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:30 AM:

" Please, for the sake of St Pete! Say Merry Christmas, Lodian! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:29 AM:

" Neo: You're going to have to prove that I lost anything here. What have you proven here? What were you debating with me? ...That I have a moral compass or not? Running off after saying "You lost" doesn't count for beans. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:26 AM:

" Neo: What "debate" have I lost exactly? LOL! Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I pray for peace in your heart for your fellow man... and that includes homosexuals! :-) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:23 AM:

" lodian; know what i hate? i hate macaroni & cheese. can't stand mac and cheese. another thing, i hate tv evangelists that rip people off of their money, only to turn around and say "god" blessed them with a new bentley. can't wait for that one to get "squared away" by God. i hate when people are hypocritical. there is a complete difference when people are "imperfect" and make mistakes. not talking about that one. purposefully hypocritical (the poster child of this blog would be leonard), i hate that sin. leonard certainly is a piece of work. frustrating to watch him completely lie about the bible. don't hate him tho. i don't know the guy. hate his sin for sure, and i will fight against it to make sure that those who don't know any different, know that he doesn't know what he thinks he does. God in his word calls me to defend the likes of ANYONE who purposefully trashes Gods word. just doing my job uknow?. you trash the bible as being from God, and call it a book of fables, then "feign" belief in order to convince people your a "good boy", past hypocritical and straight to evil. using God for personal trickery, thats evil. i don't hate homosexuals (like you keep trumpeting that i do,to discredit me). because i wouldn't have a homosexual friend that i have had for many years, which i told you, but you in your evil task to discredit me, conveignetly forget to mention. nope, don't hate homosexuals. hate thier sin though. just like any sin. gluttony, hate that sin to. sensitive to people that struggle with it. have friends in that arena too. treat them the same as i do a homosexual or divorce' (sensitive to the struggle of their lives, and what lead them to that choice). lifes not easy you know. life is hard, people make mistakes. willfull sin, thats different. hate that. if you ask me if it's sin, i am going to say yes. you keep making me out to be this monster, so you don't have to hear the truths of Gods word i tell you. it's the game you people resort to, all because you can't biblically defend your position (this IS about Christianity, remember?). YOU make accusations of hate that aren't true. YOU should check yourself, BEFORE you call on somebody else. otherwise it only proves your intentions aren't anywhere near noble. i don't hate people. i hate sin. if YOU don't pick God over people and sin, eternity is a long time to ponder not doing your homework, and falsely accusing someone of something they never said or did. google fred phelps. i guarantee you i am 100% opposite of that idiot "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:22 AM:

" Lodian, you have lost this debate. Any rational person would realize that. Merry Christmas, "if that is acceptable to you" to you and yours. God Bless! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:21 AM:

" Neo: So, your point is that since I do not believe that being gay is "SEXUAL PERVERSION" and immoral I must be some lost soul without a moral compass that found my values in a Cracker Jack box? Is this really your argument? Come on! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:15 AM:

" Neo: I see that you are waiting with bated breath, but I have already answered you. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:10 AM:

" real facts: In real life do you address people in this same manner? Do you get to have many discussions, in person, in the tone in which you address people here? I'm just wondering because your tone puts people off. The unsure folks that really do have sincere questions and would like to hear all the sides on this topic may just leave because your angry tone runs them off. I'm not being flip, just honest. "

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Neo wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:01 AM:

" So lodian.. be real... no hate here...WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR BELIEFS?? Since you refuse to say, I must assume that you believe whatever comes to your mind, is the sole determination of right and wrong. No defined moral compass, no written rules, just whatever feels good, do it! AGAIN!!! LODIAN!!!!IS ANY KIND OF SEXUAL PERVERSION OFF LIMITS TO YOU??? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 21, 2007 12:00 AM:

" Neo: My "belief" the we should not hate, dismiss or condemn as immoral any homosexual comes from the bible and my Christian upbringing. The bible does not tell us that homosexuality is immoral. So, why question my morals and values? Is it because I disagree with you? Do you really think that's a good reason to belittle me and say my "personal beliefs are just dreamed up"? If you are so secure in your beliefs you wouldn't have to belittle me, as if I have no morals/values, in order to feel moral yourself. We're not talking about murder here. We are talking about people that are gay that wish to live in peace as they were born gay and one of God's children. You believe being gay is a sin. I do not. This does not make me less moral than you. Now, when did this become about the poster and not the topic? This is a common tactic when one disagrees with someone on the board. Discredit the poster so their thoughts on a topic are discredited. Is this the way you always try to convince others you are "right" and they are "wrong"? May you find some peace my friend. And may you release some of that hate in your heart. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:51 PM:

" lodian; it seems that way, beacuse you haven't met many Christians who won't take grief from others. thats not me lodian. i don't see you riding anybody else in here that took way more personal nasty swipes at me. no ivamn dixon chastizement after he alluded to me having sex with some other guy. nope. i don't take any grief, i am not the least bit bothered "conscience-wise" about putting people in their place. i wouldn't hurt a flea. never have. not my "style". telling the blunt truth, all about that tho. like you. you keep coming at me with stuff you can't qualify. in a noble mans (or womans) world, you don't make statements you can't back up. if you do, i'm not going to make sure you own it. you went as far as to ask me questions totally unrelated to the subject matter, solely so you could discredit me from mirroring Gods word. it's what people that aren't really interested in truth do. it has nothing to do with "disagreeing". what you were doing was not cool. i called you on it, just like i am going to do with everyone that comes at me that way. you ask a question with noble intent, you will get an answer. otherwise, you will se me put you in your place by making you accountable. in a noble world, thats fair. when you said "it doesn't say that", that was an outright lie that you purposefully trumpeted. i called you on it. not used to Christians speaking out? your not going to get an apology. when people act civil, they get a civil response. when they don't, i make sure that i demonstrate their motives. don't like what you see, nobility is aopen road to you still, because you still draw breath. you asked me several questions, but neglected to answer mine FIRST. i am sure your not used to Christians kepimg you honest either? now, what's "unloving" about that? compared to some of Jesus Christ's responses (in the GOSPELS that leonard "trusts"), toward those that opposed God where Jesus chastized them, i am a "puddy cat". do your homework lodian. it may sound mean, but it's the truth. maybe i should change my name to "real blunt truth facts". "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:37 PM:

" Neo: Where do you get all that hate? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:35 PM:

" Neo/real facts: I was raised with good morals and values. Hate was never part of my upbringing, nor is it in my character... Jesus didn't teach hate either. Ones moral compass is not purchased at the bookstore. Some people let hate and fear bleed into their attitudes and actions towards others and it guides them to belittle and attack others for their honest respectful beliefs. I hope you can someday get past your fear and hate and see respectful loving homosexuals as God's children that deserve your respect, not your hate, fear, anger and dismissal as immoral human beings. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:31 PM:

" (nylodian Dec 20 7:42 AM:" I think it is both sad and ironic that some people are more fixated and defensive on the literal text of the Bible (which has been, transposed, translated and edited by fallible humans) instead of Christ's MESSAGE of LOVE and TOLERANCE"). nylodian, don't tell me that you bought one of those bibles from leonard thats missing the pages you guys don't agree with? Jesus didn't preach just "love and tolerance". thats either you being ignorant, or your telling a fibber. if you would actually read the gospels instead of parroting dismissive positional tainted views, you would read TONS of instances where Jesus Christ got "down town" about sin. thats right, the "cuddly" Jesus everyone wants him to be so they don't have to see their own sin in the mirror, dealt with sin, even to the point of anger at times. so you don't think i make this stuff up (unlike leonard the eraser), here's a little homework ...the WHOLE chapter of matthew 24. Gods a little fed up at the "opposition" in that chapter. gives details about how the world is finally gonna get what THEY have been asking for, by mocking him. not the one verse here and there you people run to, to discredit Gods word. the WHOLE chapter. not enough of the venegeful - just say no to sin in no uncertain terms not "cuddly" Jesus? fine. let me know. the GOSPELS (the ones that leonard only "trusts") is full of some more examples. let me know, or are you one of the plethora of "players" in here that just came to make your comment so you can excuse away Christianity, then can't qualify (biblically) that you actually know what you talking about. and more importantly, don't care?). one more thing, your comment " transposed, translated and edited by fallible humans" is also completely not only NOT true, but provable. i would hope you made that statement because it's what you heard, out of ignorance. because that statement is completely false. nothing was "lost" in the translation by men, because God is just a "scosch" bit better than that, don'tcha realize? your implication is that God could NOT preserve his word, because of piddly little men. wow, some "God" huh? anytime you awnt someone to prove that didn't happen, i'm your man. takes heart that actually WANTS to know the truth. not someone who could care less. kinda like convincing someone the clear blue sky is, well, blue. but be patient. the naysayers are attempting to pull me in all directions by making rediculous statements, and asking rediculous unrelated questions, just so they can "discredit me". soon as i make them honorable by sticking to the subject matter, and making them answer the questions i posed to them as well, you can ask me, and i will prove to you ....it ain't so. deal? right now i am working my way to the top, answering the posts directed at me "

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Neo wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:31 PM:

" Lodian!!!!!Once again I MUST ask, WHERE do you get your beliefs??? There is no shame in admitting that your own personal beliefs are just dreamed up!!!Many people have written their own personal rules to living! Do not be ashamed! Come out of the closet!!! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:22 PM:

" real facts: This doesn't seem like a "discussion" for you. It seems like you in a battle. You've got that "Bring it on!" attitude that just makes you seem angry, hateful and vindictive. I imagine you with your chest out and your jaw clinched. Maybe you just have a hard time expressing yourself in the manner in which you'd like to come across, but let me tell you that you really sound like you would get physical with the people here that disagree with you if given half a chance. I like that you say you will answer any questions, although you are not as considerate in answering those questions as you think you are. Your condescending tone in which you snap at people on this topic tells me you're not as sure as you think you are about homosexuals and what the bible says or does say about it. You say "Do your homework" but dismiss people when they say they have done their homework. Besides, how do really know what anyone has studied in reference to the bible? Just because they disagree with you doesn't mean they haven't read and studied the bible. When those people share what and they have concluded, after doing their homework, your rebuttal is that they are lazy and just accept immoral behavior as well as do not follow what has clearly been stated by God. There are people here that have really good arguments and opposing views. I think you are getting more and more worked up because there have been some great points shared here that contradict your belief that being homosexual is immoral and that is says so in the bible. I would think you would get more worked up about something like divorce and adultery than two men who are in a loving relationship that many believe is not forbidden by God. You seem like you are in knots over this... may you find some peace in your beliefs. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:00 PM:

" (leonard;Dec 20 7:42 AM:" Brian: Your posts just get sillier and sillier. "God" is an English word as well so, to use your logic, "God" does not appear in the Bible"). no? none? never? your sure about that, right? you must be, because you keep passing yourself off as someone who actually "knows" what the bible says. wanna bet it "doesn't"? even more poignent to the fact that you really do know nothing of what the bible actually DOES say, how about you own up to your OWN words and publically agree to pay me $1 for everytime it does? deal leonard? that really is the most rediculous thing you have ever said. tell you what, to prove i have integrity over you, all that $$$$$$$$ you will owe me, i will agree to give ALL of it to charity. show me the $$$$$$ leo (can't wait for you to run away from this one) "

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Neo wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:55 PM:

" Lodian, where do YOU get your moral directions? Snake charmers? Tarot cards? Please bless us with your infinite wisdom? Or is this all what you feel to be your intuition? Please! I need to know if your beliefs are factually based or something you just dream up?!! Are we ALL animals that can hump anything????? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:50 PM:

" i will do you guys one even better. i know you people want so badly to be able to dismiss the bible (and it's internal authority), so you can do whatever you want, unabated by ANY authority, especially Gods. afterall, it's why you people stretch the truth about it, in an attempt at dismissing it. i am going to hand you a "get out of jail free" card. if ANYONE of you, or anybody in the entirety of the human race, could ever systematically, and undoubtedly, prove that God purposefully "designed" homosexuality (born "gay") into any human being, you can single handedly prove the bible is nothing more than a book of fables. Gods word cannot contradict itself, and if it did, it wouldn't be of God. it would then be of mans "wishful thinking". thats right, if you can contradict all those scriptures whereby God specifically called homosexual sex an abombination, and then show where humans were created to BE "homosexual", you would be the king of the hill. the one that toppled Christianity. i can just see you all now, licking your chops, hoping someone will come along and finally silence those that have the backbone to actually hold up the standards of God. but here's a career tip; AIN'T NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. you can try, but your legacy in life will be one of complete fultility, because God CANNOT contradict his word, and then turn right around and condemn something, then turn around from that and hold us "accountable". "gay gene"? there is none. never will be. bet my entire life on it. bet everything i own on it. never gonna happen. no one has ever been born gay. that right there would make Gods word, NOT "gods word". so there's a little "nugget" for you. search all you want. i absolutely love a scripture in the bible from the book of acts (acts 5; 33-39. read it people), where gamaliel is having a conversation with a fellow "unbeliever", who is not only involved in the persecuting of the early church Christians, but killing them off as well. gamaliel may be an unbeliever, but the guy is one smart cookie. exhibits alot of common sense. the kind that just might save his soul one day (DESPITE his unbelief, and completely unlike the people in here). gamaliel turns to the other unbeliever and says something to the effect of ;"don't fight against these guys (Christians). let them be. if what they are preaching is NOT of God, it will come to nothing. but IF it is of God, you might as well be fighting against God himself, then contend against the Christians". smart man that gamaliel. you can't fight against God OR his word (if it's true), and live an eternity to brag about it. gamaliel loved to contend, but recognized futility. the sad story about gamaliel, is that story won't even slow down some people in here. but rather, because they love their sin more than God, and they are not smart enough to be remotely interested in truth, they will beat a drum that will never posses a sound. try as you might people, i just gave you a golden opportunity. now run forrest, run "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:48 PM:

" Brian: Fear is also a primordial instinct. Some men fear homosexuals because they fear that they themselves may be gay or that someone else may think they are gay. And that makes them feel insecure. A real man, a secure man, does not have the need to belittle, attack or dismiss another man because that man is a homosexual. We're all children of God. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:31 PM:

" Brian: Is it not the woman's fault if a man will "buckle at the knees when approached"? A real man does not need the women in his life to be subservient. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:24 PM:

" Brian: John Wayne and Clark Gable? You do realize that you are looking at movie actors as examples of men that "commanded respect and stood proud". Did you know them personally? "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:06 PM:

" In order for a society to become civilized it must have a moral compass. God blessed humans with a moral compass. There will always be those who will digress back to their primordial instincts such as homosexuality. Those that insist on reverting back to their primordial instinct of homosexuality are defying God's plan for humans. Perhaps there is a gene that dictates to a human that he or she must be gay. Well, perhaps we all have that gene. The vast majority of humans don't allow this gene to influence them. Oh the temptation is clear here as was the temptation for Adam to eat the apple. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 9:08 PM:

" billy; don't worry, i am going nowhere, despite the people in here that wish i would. i am licking my chops, knowing people think "ivan" has me. there was a poster before in the blogs and on the discussion board, that "threatened" to pull what i call "the shellfish game", but wussed out. i begged him to do it, challenged him several times to do it, never did. at least "ivan" had the nerve to copy and paste something. i am all about this one. got some family over, and because i am long winded, i will try and get to this tonight. if not, ASAP. before i do, there are some things that are going to happen. "ivan" thinks he can skate on what i asked him to do, and then expect me to answer his dia-trip. same thing with leonard and lodian. everyones demanding of me, what they refuse to do themselves. you people are all about busting my chops, yet you wuss out when i stand up to you, and require you to act with character, by qualify the position YOU hold. don't push people down a road, unless your willing to "drive" the distance. it's rediculous how people won't answer my questions, but demand that i do. be at ease billy. NO ONE can paint me into a corner. and NO ONE can run me off. you will NEVER see me run and hide, and i will take anything anyone can throw at me. there isn't a subject in this life, from any angle, that i can't handle. and "ivan", before you can pull your "copy and paste" job on me, i won't allow you to play the hit and run game your used to. (1)you are going to have to answer MY question throughly, (2)then your going to explain to the reading audience just what those scriptures YOU posted, meant? people go to "sites" and copy/paste stuff that "sounds" good, but have NO IDEA themselves of thier historocity, intent and "fit" into the weave of the scriptures. they pull out the one scripture here, one scripture there and "ahh ha, i got em". sometimes it's funny (when you run into people that ARE actually noble, but just ignorant of Gods word). other times it's pathetic (when you come across people that are just like the ones in here. who could care less about truth OR integrity, but are only out to play the "destroy the authority of Christ at all cost, so i can do whatever i want" game). they just parrot it without validating it first, by actually knowing it's placement and intent. i see that being played out here all the time. "parroting" over actual knowledge, is just another proof that these people really have no idea what thier talking about, don't care about the real truths of issues, they just pretend that they do. i think it's funny they are "high fiving" themselves all over. sad actually. just makes themselves more self indictable. it's an unfortunate by-product of me telling them the truth, and watching them walk away because they weren't interested in the truth to begin with. only a fool walks away from truth. a good example?, lodian's comment "there isn't any proof that God didn't say homosexuality is immoral". thats an intellectual lie. with the amount of attention put toward homosexuality IN the scriptures that SPECIFICALLY condemns same sex, you have to either be stevie wonder without the ability to read braille, or a liar. it's the only way one can say that. in leviticus 18:22 says those EXACT words. "man cannot lie with man. it is an abomination". read it for yourself lodian, and make that statement again. maybe i should give her the benefit of the doubt. maybe leonard gave her one of his "bibles". the ones where the pages he didn't like, and ripped them out. people can bag on me all they want and say anything about me. but if i tell the truth (such as i did above), i am not "loving". cool. i am good with that. now i have to go and explain to the "fam" why i have been at the computer so long. but rest assured, i am licking my chops at what people have written. i especially can't wait to put leonard back on the hook for both (once again) lying about what the bible says ("Christ's morality was essentially a positive one")( "

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Neo wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:52 PM:

" Leonard, why are you being so self-righteous? On EXACTLY what moral compass do you assert to believe that incest is wrong? I mean you MUST have SOME belief system, do you not? Please share how you come to believe what you do!!Do you go to fortune tellers? Read tea leaves? I`m sure whatever you and Dixon hold true have some documented reference materials.. again, correct me if I`m wrong... "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:48 PM:

" No longer do we have the John Waynes or the Clark Gables who commanded respect and stood proud. We now have a pop culture of subservient males who buckle at the knees when approached by a woman. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:39 PM:

" Scout, I'll consider your claim that 5 percent of all mammals are homosexual. Given the fact that only humans have the ability to discern what is right and wrong and not just the natural thing to do you are suggesting that 5 percent of humans should in all likeliness revert back to their primordial instincts. That said, perhaps we can conclude that homosexuals haven't evolved enough to get past their urge to have sex with the same sex. I may not be too comfortable with my thesis because it gives homosexuals another excuse to be victims of statisitics, or society. One can blame the feminist movement, that was a front for the gay/lesbian movement that ushered in the feminization of America. No longer do we have nearly the same amount of good male roll models as we did before the feminists movement. The popular culture we see today does not allow a strong male roll model to exist to any significance. "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 20, 2007 6:32 PM:

" Well, I hope all you people are happy. I was totally looking forward to seeing the Reverend Facts mop the floor with you, but you have succeeded in running him off with really super extra hard questions. This is only a newspaper blog, you don't have to paint someone into a corner like that. It's just mean. Come back, Reverend Facts! We need you! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 5:18 PM:

" That is to say "The fact that you need the Bible to prevent you from committing incest is a sign of your own depravity, not mine. I suggest that you seek professional help ASAP" "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 5:17 PM:

" Neo: ROTFLMAO!!! The fact that you need the Bible to prevent you from committing incest is wrong is a sign of your own depravity, not mine. I suggest that you seek professional help ASAP. "

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Neo wrote on Dec 20, 2007 4:34 PM:

" To all you homosexual advocates, because that is exactly what you are whether you choose to believe it or not. How can you possibly justify being against gay brothers having sex? Is it not their choice and right? Father daughter sex, is that not also their right? Even assuming all these people are over 18, how, in your realtive, secular world do you find it acceptable to be AGAINST this behavior? You should be very much in favor of ALL this !!!!!!!! Morality is relative... right? Please correct me if I`m wrong!!!! "

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nsn_lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 3:21 PM:

" TO THOSE ARGUING OVER CHOICE-vs-NATURE: The fact of the matter is that it isn't "either or" ... in some cases, homosexuality is genetically encoded for a particular person. For others, it is a choice (or worse, an option forced upon them). I know of a case where a female student is attracted to other females .. but she thinks they are male in her mind. Why? Because her single mother was a lesbian who brought home other women, and they were passed off as men. So this poor girl doesn't really know the difference between men and women when it comes to relationships with a female. That, my friends, is not a NATURAL occurance of homosexuality. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:26 PM:

" As for Matthew 15, "porneiai" does not have any particularly homosexual reference so my point stands. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:19 PM:

" RF: I've given your question a fair amount of thought and in doing so, I have come to realize that the question itself is fundamentally flawed. Christ's morality was essentially a positive one. Christ commanded his disciples to be humble, to abstain from violence, to be generous to the poor and to praise God. Christ taught us to concentrate on the good things that we do as part of the Christian Fellowship and not to judge others who we might otherwise think had failed to live up to our standards. If you would like confirmation of this, I refer you to the Sermon on the Mount where Christ taught us that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. What greater moral lesson could there be? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:13 PM:

" Scrut: The last time I checked, our form of government (a Republic) was based on that of the Pagan Romans and our system of laws were based on English Common law which traces its roots back to the Anglo Saxon tribes. Certainly the Bible and particularly the New Testament have also had strong influences on our legal system but to claim that our society will descend into anarchy if we don't stone adulterers and burn witches is patently absurd. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 20, 2007 1:16 PM:

" So Ivan, sense our entire system of law is based on a Judeo-Christian belief system I guess it too should be declared null and void? Help me here, laws based on Christian morals are verboten? Where do YOU draw the line? Is it OK with you for there to be gay sex out side a schoolyard? I mean the Bible is antiquated right? Who are we to judge what some person feels is their right? Are you gonna be self-righteous and intolerant and deny them their right to have a good time? Once again Ralph Matthews, uh I mean Ivan , WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE??? "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 20, 2007 12:44 PM:

" To be fair, I had a little help on that one but the point still stands and I see that, thus far, Real Facts has been either unwilling or unable to address it. "

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Scrutiny wrote on Dec 20, 2007 12:35 PM:

" Boy! This is one heck of a string of comments!! Bloggers, give yourselves a hand! This has got to be a record for postings! I think I`d like to nominate a few of you for a Golden Blogger Award, also known as a "Bloggie". This prestigious award is not given out willy-nilly I`ll have you know! Who`da thought that the subject of gay priests would generate such response? "

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scout wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:58 AM:

" Ivan: it really was an exceptional post. Well put. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:44 AM:

" real facts: I would like for you to address Ivan Dixon's post. I am interested to know your responses to his questions. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:42 AM:

" I believe that homosexuality is definitely nature and not a choice. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:40 AM:

" real facts: Ivan said so brilliantly what I was trying to say earlier with my short comments regarding divorce and gluttony (being overweight). You want to believe that homosexuality is immoral (I see no proof that God said it is immoral) yet divorce and gluttony (two examples) seem acceptable to you. You also seem to be okay with gossip, let alone all the other things Ivan addressed in his "spot on" post to you. Please explain to us why you only latch on to the topic of homosexuality to strongly, and with such "penchance", when it is not remotely clear anywhere in the bible that God forbid it. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:28 AM:

" Ivan Dixon! Great post at 2:28am! Very well done. "

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scout wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:26 AM:

" Brian: 5% of all mammals are homosexual. (This is a fact) Scientists are also close to pin pointing gene expressions and hormonal reactions they believe result in homosexuality. Two questions for you: 1) what scientific proof would you need to support that homosexuality is a part of nature and not a choice, and 2) if you received that evidence would it change your position on this topic? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:21 AM:

" leonard; here we go again with your feigned attempt at what the bible says. Jesus did specifically mention / include homosexuality in Matthew 15:19-20,"(19)For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (20)These are what make a man 'unclean'". i asked you, and you still have skated from answering the question, because you know the answer self indicts your true inability TO intepret Gods word. i asked you what the BIBLICAL definition (not "leonards) of what sexual immorality means AND includes. you skated from it. it's amazing how much you spew, but you cannot answer a simple question that would soldify that you DON'T know what your talking about. if you did know what your talking about, it's me handing you a golden opportunity to redeem yourself. don't chicken out this time. what IS sexual immorality afterall? your consistent lie that Jesus never made ANY comment on homosexuality, is completely 100% untrue. leviticus condemned it, and Christ would not have gone against that teaching. a FACT that you did not address as well. as much as you push your chest out in here, you would think you would be all over this. the only reason you chicken out from it (for over 1 year now), is because you know you can't answer that without self indictment. answer the question ! "

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Billy Rubin wrote on Dec 20, 2007 10:20 AM:

" Hang in there, Brian. It might seem to everyone that you've run out of things to say, but if you hold on for just a little longer Sean Hannity and Michael Weiner Savage will be on later today and I bet they'll say something else you can repeat here. Those guys RULE, right Bri? High five! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:25 AM:

" Brian: I am simply addressing the FACT that Jesus DIDN"T address the issue of homosexuality. I know that this FACT may be inconvenient to you and it may make it harder for you to justify your bigotry and hate but it remains just that, a FACT. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:23 AM:

" Brian: Since you claim to have a basic grasp of history you must surely be aware that the entire Mid East was conquered by the Greeks in the 330s and colonized. Outside of a few orthodox enclaves, the Mediterranean coast of what is now Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and Israel was more or less culturally Greek. Christ was, in essence, immersed in a culture where homosexuality was exceedingly common. If the Savior objected to that, he surely would have said something. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:23 AM:

" Now, you're right back at saying that since Jesus didn't object to it vertbatum he didn't object to it.Here we go again with your stupid rationale. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:21 AM:

" Leonard, Now You're implying that I didn't realize this to further your insults. Obviously you won't address the issue of your stupid rationale. It seems to me you are not as courageous as I thought. You just won't admit to the fact that you think Jesus wouldn't condemn homosexulity. So you alter the subject matter to skate away from it. REALLY lEONARD, You need to sop the insults. It only makes you look bad. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:19 AM:

" Brian: Do try to follow along. I said that the Romans took a live and let live attitude about homosexuality. The Greeks attitude was one of "the more the better". Homosexuality was everywhere in the ancient world and nowhere more than in the Greek East. Christ could not have helped but been aware of it and, if he had objected to it, he surely would have said something (anything) about it. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:14 AM:

" ROTFLMAO!!!! Are you suggesting that he condemned it non verbally? Perhaps through sign language or hand signals? Get a grip Brian. You lost this argument long ago. Have a cup of coffee and stop making a fool of yourself. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:14 AM:

" I do have a fundamental grasp of history Leonard. Stop with the insults. I know it makes you feel good. Are you now saying that since the Greeks took a live and let live attitude on homosexuality Jesus did the same? See I can twist too. "

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sam wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:14 AM:

" Ivan, superb blog. Amen. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:13 AM:

" Brian: You really are slow this morning. AGAIN.... the point isn't that homosexuality didn't exist in Christ's day as it did and was openly discussed by Christ's contemporaries. The point is that Christ himself never mentioned the concept in any of his teachings. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:10 AM:

" Leonard, You still haven't addressed the issue of your rationale that since Jesus did not speak of homosexuality he may not have condemned it. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:10 AM:

" Brian: Actually, with a few notable exceptions, the Romans took a dim view of homosexuality, although, as with most things, there legal attitude was one of live and let live. It was the amongst the Greeks that homosexuality was most prevalent. You should try to get at least a fundamental grasp of history, since we are all doomed to repeat it, you never know when it might come in handy. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:08 AM:

" Leonard, You're beginning to sound more and more like Jesse and Al. They just love to invent hate to fit their agenda. There is not one sentence in any of my comments on this blog that entices hate. Sorry Leonard, Disagreeing with homosexual's lifestyles does not mean I hate them. But then, you liberals love to attach a word or a catch-phrase in your arguments. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:07 AM:

" Brian: Again, there were plenty of words for homosexuality in antiquity. I think we all understand that the Bible was not written in English. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 8:01 AM:

" Are we now going to have a discussion about modern day immoralities that didn't exist when the bible was written so you can tell us Jesus didn't condemn these things, Leonard? One wonders. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:56 AM:

" Leonard, the whole issue about your stupid rationale is all about construing that since Jesus did not address the issue of homosexuality means he may not have condemned it even though he condemned all other acts of immorality. I don't know about you Leonard, you're teetering to the point that one would think you feel Jesus was not quite as intolerant about sexual immorality as he seems to be. We could probably think of a lot of other things he didn't touch on that I know he would condemn. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:45 AM:

" Also, Since their were many homosexuals in the Roman empire and even you have admitted that the Romans may have altered the bible, it seems to me to me that since the Romans were pagan, Jesus didn't have any problem condemning things the Romans did. But I'm sure you'll find some way to slither out of this argument now that I have proven the word homosexual wasn't invented yet. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:43 AM:

" The Greeks had plenty of words for the idea of homosexuality and the speakers of Aramaic were not unfamiliar with the concept as well. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:42 AM:

" I think it is both sad and ironic that some people are more fixated and defensive on the literal text of the Bible (which has been, transposed, translated and edited by fallible humans) instead of Christ's MESSAGE of LOVE and TOLERANCE. Merry Christmas, everyone! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:42 AM:

" Brian: Your posts just get sillier and sillier. "God" is an English word as well so, to use your logic, "God" does not appear in the Bible. My point was that Christ never once addresses the ISSUE of homosexuality and I stand by that point. Do try to get a grip on your hate so that you can participate in a serious conversation. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 20, 2007 7:38 AM:

" Leonard, I rest may case. You do agree with me on the word homosexual. Since the bible was not written in English it seems very apparent that the word homosexual was not around back when the bible was written. So, Jesus did not mention homosexual because the word had not been invented yet. Your rationale that Jesus did not condemn this is a little shakey. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 20, 2007 2:28 AM:

" Dear Real Facts Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. Your persuasive arguments have convinced me that you are right. From now on, when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I will simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. a. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die? i. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:37 PM:

" neo; the reason homosexuality is more "fashionable" (as you put it. i would say more "acceptable"), is because people are caring less about what God thinks, and being more concerned with the "feelings" of individual people AND thier choices. homosexuality isn't the only thing that is flourishing more and more. people are losing their conscience, and opening the door wide for acceptance of all things opposite of Gods standards. watch tv, and it wouldn't be too long before you hear people talking about having 3 way sex with multiple people as if now it is the "norm". it's disgusting. even outside of the churches moral codes, society is gravely headed down the tubes via the "PC" highway. if you read an earlier blog by "brian", he noted that it is now OK to commit multiple unchallenged sex acts in a public street in plain view of children. people in here should be absolutely outraged at that. either dead silnce ensued, or people ran to defend the rights of those that did it. NO ONE on this blog straight across the board condemned sex in public, regardless of children being present. read that again, NO ONE. the world is right where it should be, because people are caring more about "pleasure", than God. "don't you dare interfere with my "pleasure", God". that is why homosexuality is more "accepted", as are any other sin. adultery, check. pedophilia (more rampant without conscience), check. divorce (especially within the church), check. even bestiallity, dang. the fact that bestiality is now more accepted (and laughed off) should indicate why we are here. if a person doesn't aknowledge that, it's only because they fall into the category i described. getting back on track, the condition of this world, reminds me of sodom and gomorrah. our world now EXACTLY mirrors what happened to sodom, and homosexuality was only ONE portion of that. people think i "bag" on homosexuality or "gays". nope. i bag on sin, whatever it is. the world would be a better place, as it used to be, if people weren't so PC, and actually took a stand against things that are destroying humanity, because of it's refusal of Gods standards. morality USED to keep deviant behavior in check, not anymore. some people actually think sex with children is natural. won't be long before no one can challenge that without being labeled "unloving". i made the statement and the statement is / was true. NO WHERE in history has homosexuality been "accepted" in any civilzation in the world, where that civilization didn't eventually implode. only until recently, is this world working hard to "legitimize" it. one may deny it, but one cannot deny the paradighm (sp) shift in the morality of the world, once people started dropping their guard on these issues. you can almost date it, it's that traceable. it belies anyones "opinion", and stands on its own "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:04 PM:

" lee; i forgot to add... i don't see you busting the chops of those people that I asked questions, and got no answer? i asked leonard several times to define immorality, he chickened out. that guy pushes his chest out even more than me. nothing. he never does. you should ride him about that. i asked leonard, lodian, sam and everybody else in here that have taken their "swings" at me, and what i have said, to find me one scripture that gives homosexuality a thumbs up. certainly nothing "unbiblical" about that, is there? sam gave one, but hasn't followed thru on it. the rest of all the bloggers ...ZIP. nothing. everyone sure has something to say, until they can't defend that position, and then silence. now IF you are going to play fair, YOU can chide them as well, and YOU can answer the question also. otherwise, don't accuse people of something you can't personally live up to. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:53 PM:

" lee; play fair, or don't play at all. i can see your point about me, but i don't see you jumping on those that jumped me first? whats up with that? leads me to believe this is more about you, not liking what the "message" is? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:49 PM:

" lee; ask me anything on any subject matter and my verbage is the same. i pull no punches, and i tell the truth without worrying who it will offend. the word of God IS offensive, in that it is "divisonary". it divides people quickly into two groups. you either believe God AND his word as it is preserved, or you don't. i tell it like it is, which is sorely missing today, both in the church and without. the subject of homosexuality doesn't get me "worked up", because it is just another sin. when i deal with any sin, i treat it the same way. you just think that because i am not going to stand by when people mock Gods word, and lie that it doesn't say certain things it obviously does, that you somehow equate that to hate. it shows either your ignorance, or your unwillingness to accept what God said about the subject matter. Jesus wasn't always "loving" and "cuddly". when it came to sin, he told the truth, and often that truth was not "pretty". so here's the deal, to get me to "change course", your going to have to prove i did something wrong biblically, not because YOU don't like it. quite frankly, your "opinion" means nothing "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:38 PM:

" lee; instead of leveling a blanket accusation(s), pick out specific places where (a) i didn't answer anybody's question? (b) i was being arrogant or rude? maybe your not used to seeing a Christian actually take a stand both against sin, and those that mock God. you know as well as i do, lodian asked me questions that weren't civil in tone, and accused me of something i am not. if you don't think that as a Christian i can stand up when someones taking swipes, then you lack backbone. i don't. you think i am "worried" about always being right? you have me pegged way wrong. all i have to do is parrot Gods word, and leave the results up to God. maybe you have a problem with the message, as alot of times these are attempts at silencing the "messenger". not gonna happen. however, if YOU can prove i did something wrong (biblically), i will be glad to adjust accordingly. be specific, because know all you have done is cut a wide swath up until now "

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Neo wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:20 PM:

" Why is it that homosexuality has only fairly recently, the last 30-40 years or so, become so " blatantly obvious or Fashionable" In theory, the more gays we have should mean LESS gay people in the future! If it`s genetic of course...Gays don`t reproduce, without a LOTTT of help! "

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Lee wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:15 PM:

" real facts: Lodian has asked you some very poignant questions and you either belittle her questions or just ignore them. You say you are completely willing to answer all questions, but I guess you have the right to decide which questions are worthy of you, huh? All you are accomplishing here is looking like a giant ass. I think you need to grow up and learn how to relate to others in a respectful tone, especially when you are discussing an important topic in your life. Maybe you need a vacation or something. Go get some fresh air... get a life and you won't be so intent on condemning others that have absolutely nothing to do with you and aren't bothering anyone in the least. Real facts, YOU are what is wrong in this world... not someone that is gay. You are so afraid of gay people that you go off on these rants on how immoral it is. You can shove your hate, real facts. The world doesn't need more hate. Move on. Get some help. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:08 PM:

" real facts: Is there any other topic in your life that gets you this worked up? Can you possibly have a more calm tone in addressing this topic with others? Even if you are right, your aggressive posts make you sound a bit nuts. "

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Lee wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:03 PM:

" real facts: Simply, you are mean spirited. Your responses are rude and you enjoy putting people down constantly. Your approach at getting your point across lacks tact and grace. God would not be happy with your attitude towards your fellow man, nor your desire to be right over all else. Jesus was a good listener...try it! There are actually people here that are being respectful to you even though they disagree with you. They are engaging in conversation with you and putting up with a lot of "attitude" from you. I think people here have done a great job of holding back so far. I personally think you need a tongue lashing. You need to straighten up buddy. Be more humble and stop with all this righteous garbage. State your views, fine, but you have no right to degrade others for asking questions or disagreeing with you. The way you speak to others makes them just think what a jerk you are and then they stop the dialogue with you. Is that what God would want from you? Think about it...think about it real hard... and pray. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 7:03 PM:

" sam; what about them? i know the relationship between them and what it was about, do you? i don't mean to be rude, but did you actually read the passages of the bible that tells the story about ruth and naomi? hopefully you live up to your own words about being a "Christian", and you don't get your info from wikipedia. instead of what you are reading on pro-homosexual agenda sites, read it for yourself, then get back to me on what it says about the "nature" of their relationship. there's no substitution for reading it ....yo-self "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:56 PM:

" ivan; given your rhethoric thus far, explaining something to you about God would be a total waste of time and energy. your not the least bit interested in these truths of life. it's obvious your here to troll and cause trouble. when you grow up, feel free to come back and play the game of life the noble way. until then, your only self indicting yourself. you don't need my "help" "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:50 PM:

" Real facts, how about Ruth and Naomi? "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:49 PM:

" You're going to have to forgive me but this god of yours sounds like a bit of a jerk. Why did he create all these gay fellows if he was going to guarantee that none of them could ever be happy unless they were willing to go to Hell? Seems pretty mean to create someone only to damn them to eternal torment or deny them happiness in life "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:45 PM:

" So, why are you stalking this gay fellow? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:28 PM:

" ivan; according to your 5:55 PM post, your no giant of integrity. all you did there was attempt to attack my character by your rediculous post. if you can't debate the subject, and stick to the truth of what i say, and you have to resort to this, maybe you ought to find a new place to play your games. middle schoolers call people names and twist peoples words all because they can't defend their position. for your own sake, grow up "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 6:19 PM:

" ivan; if you read my responses carefully,then you won't have to ask a rhetorical question. Gods word forbids ANY kind of sex outside of marriage, including hetero or homosexual sex. any. also, there is only ONE definition of marriage, and the only one that God recognizes, and that was specifically ONLY between a man and a woman. anytime homosexual sex is discussed, it is condemned. maybe you can be the one that shows me ONE scripture that OK's homosexuality, in or outside of "marriage". or ONE scripture that includes marriage between same sex? "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:55 PM:

" So, you've got this guy and he is cruising internet chat rooms, hanging out at fast food drive thrus and hitting his friends up for info all because he thinks that some other guy might be gay? Sounds to me like someone has a grade school like crush. Why doesn't Real Facts just ask him out on a date? They could go see an art movie and have frappacinnos afterwards. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:53 PM:

" I don't get it. If the objection to gays is that they aren't married, why don't we let them marry? I don't like that stuff myself but I figure that this is America and what people want to do in the privacy of their own homes is their own darn business. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:45 PM:

" sly; look, if your going to post something, just to cause trouble, at least act honorably and post the truth of what i said. if you are going to twist my words in an attempt at discrediting me, you picked the wrong person for that. what i said is true. the guy HIMSELF states he's gay, and people that i know that know him, confirm that he is. you people are sick that the only thing you can do, is seek to discredit me by twisting my words. is anybody ever noble anymore? it wasn't good enough that i said i know and have gay friends. get a life "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:39 PM:

" (Lodian;" real facts: Gossip is a sin. Your participation in such immoral behavior should give you pause when addressing someone else's preference with whom they love"). i don't hesitate to accuretly mirror God by calling sin, sin. if you are afraid to, thats your choice. "preferences" count for squat. preferences can really mean that you have no intention on pleasing God, "prefering" instead to live anyway that makes one "feel good". you really don't think God will accept that as an excuse do you? thats rediculous. the gossip deal; the guy is gay. when you tell the truth, it's not gossip. thought you "had me", i bet? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:31 PM:

" ("lodian,real facts: With all the hate, war, crime, evil and death in the world... How can "love" between two consenting available adults be immoral?"). i don't define "love", God does. you understand that part, right? God created us, and therefore it is HE that defines anything. his definition of sexual love only included a married man and woman. NOWHERE in the bible is there even a homosexual instance (including "marriage") wherein it's not condemned. same thing with ANY sex outside of marriage. can you find me one? what YOU described as "loving", God in his word calls sin. everytime. your going to have to be mad at God, not me "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:23 PM:

" (Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:51 AM: " real facts: Would you not consider that your interpretations of the verses you stand by, regarding homosexuality being immoral, are inaccurate and that you may be mistaken?"). i would definitely consider anything anybody throws at me, as me being wrong. the difference between me and other people in here is that i actually value Gods word enough TO adjust to it when i am wrong. you can tell people in here aren't remotely interested in that. some people are blinded by "position", and could care less about truth. if it says it in multiple places, especially by Christ himself, there is the truth about it. unless you don't really care what it is, then you make excuses to excuse it away "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:12 PM:

" (lodian, your post Dec 19, 11:51 AM: " real facts: Would you not consider that your interpretations of the verses you stand by, regarding homosexuality being immoral, are inaccurate and that you may be mistaken"). do you ever read my responses? or are you just going to keep asking a question i have given you the answer to in my post that came before yours at 11:33 AM. i asked YOU to read what the bible actually says and then tell me it doesn't say that? you didn't do that. my opinion doesn't count, only Gods does. it says man cannot have sex with another man (lev 18:22). what needs to be "interpreted" about that? read it yourself, then make that statement "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:01 PM:

" (lodian; your post, Dec 19 11:28 AM: " real facts: You said you probably wouldn't allow a gay person to babysit your children. Would you allow someone to babysit for you that has been divorced or is overweight (suspecting gluttony"?). are you remotely serious? what does this have to do with the subject matter? to be honest lodian, that is a rediculous question, and has nothing to do with the subject of immorality. stay on track please. what kind of person are you attempting to make me out to be anyway? if you knew me, i purposefully go out of my way for the people in this world that others wouldn't give the time of day to "

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sly wrote on Dec 19, 2007 2:10 PM:

" Lodian, you got me laughing so hard I can barely type. THANKS ! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 1:00 PM:

" real facts: Gossip is a sin. Your participation in such immoral behavior should give you pause when addressing someone else's preference with whom they love. "

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sly wrote on Dec 19, 2007 12:15 PM:

" RF: I have to chime in on this silly blog... so the MAC guy is "more effeminate than any female ever acts", is on myspace,, and some of your gossiping friends "confirm" he is GAY? OMG, Real Facts, he must be a sinner ! You are ridiculous. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:57 AM:

" real facts: With all the hate, war, crime, evil and death in the world... How can "love" between two consenting available adults be immoral? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:51 AM:

" real facts: Would you not consider that your interpretations of the verses you stand by, regarding homosexuality being immoral, are inaccurate and that you may be mistaken? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:35 AM:

" lodian; i have to go to work now. when i come back, i will answer all your questions. you ask me ANYTHING, you WILL get an answer... "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:33 AM:

" lodian; you and i don't have the right to hold "opinions" on what Gods word say. if it says it, you either adjust to it or not. if it doesn't have anything to say about it, thats different. i asked you to find me ONE scripture that Ok's homosexuality, and provided you more than enough to show it did. interretation doesn't have as much to do with this issue, as does an unwillingness to accept what it says. i only care about one thing in life, what God says, and what he thinks. everything short of that is wasted space. what DOES the bible say lodian? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:28 AM:

" real facts: You said you probably wouldn't allow a gay person to babysit your children. Would you allow someone to babysit for you that has been divorced or is overweight (suspecting gluttony)? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:28 AM:

" leonard; it's not a matter of "gay-dar", as the guy is more effeminate than any female ever acts. you cannot always tell, as some aren't just because they "appear" to be. the guy says he is on myspace. i know other people in this town that affirm he is. i don't make statements i can't qualify. now, are you going to answer my question about the biblical definition of immorality? or are you going to ru from it? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:23 AM:

" metric; that is true. but also inherently true when it comes to ANY sin, certainly not homosexual sex. what ultimately matters is if ones turns toward Christ, or away from him. it is possible that a person who struggles with homosexuality, can still be a Christian. only God knows. however, show me a person who makes excuses about sin or "to" sin, and that person by biblical definition does NOT know Christ. the bible (not me !!!) calls them a liar and a theif "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:19 AM:

" RF: OK, I'll bite.... How do you know that the "gay" guy who's making you Big Mac is a homosexual? Does he have a T-Shirt? Does he try to give you a tossed salad instead of a burger? Is it something about the way he applies the special sauce? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:18 AM:

" sam and ernie: The sun feels great! All my window blinds are open.... let the sunshine in! "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:16 AM:

" sam; the sin of sodom, and it's ultimate destruction was based on an accumulation of many things, not just homosexuality. homosexuality is only part of the reason why sodom was destroyed. it is not the sole reason alot of uninformed Christians think or "run to". like i said, IF people actually did their homework, and didn't parrot other peoples beliefs because it "sounds good", they would know the full story. a whole slew of scriptures allude to sodoms destruction. jude verse 7 specifies that sexual sin (including homosexual) was part of the reason FOR it. read it yourself, and don't take anyones word for it. you know there is a "test" at the end of life? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:16 AM:

" real facts: Do you think that your interpretation of the bible is the only one that is the truth? Obviously there are many that disagree with you that bible tells us that homosexuality is immoral. Do you honor another's view and interpretation of what they believe the bible tells them? Do you respect the opinion of someone that does not think homosexuality is a sin? "

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metric time system wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:15 AM:

" I believe the distinction needs to be made concerning those who at one time fell into a sinful lifestyle but then walked away and are no longer a part of it; and those who purposefully continue to live a life of deviant behavior. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:07 AM:

" ernie; be specific. what "words"? i tell the truth. both about what the bible says about any subject matter, and a persons behavior. there are alot of people in here that say things that aren't true, and when i am not afraid to call them on it and saying things that are true, thats anger? i am blunt no doubt, but so was Christ when it came to dealing with people that are purposefully attempting to twist Gods word. i sure don't mind correction / rebuke. but do it biblically. if you can show me where i errored that way, i am game "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 11:02 AM:

" (scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:49 AM: " RF: just as we disagree on our Christian beliefs, we also seem to disagree on what it means to have integrity.") maybe you can enlighten me on either what your definition of "integrity" is? or you can tell me where i fell off the integity ship. either way, you started this dialog between you and me, now finish your responsibility in it. don't be another one that comes in here and takes a "swing", then runs and hides, because there is nothing "integrity" laden about that. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:59 AM:

" Ernie, well said. With that, I am agreeing that I disagree with RF and am walking out side to catch the sun. Thanks Ernie ! Have a great day. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:57 AM:

" (scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:33 AM: " RF: please send me one scripture that specifically says it is ok to blog on the local newspapers wbsite".) if your going to play the game, play it fair. i asked ANYBODY (which includes you)to find me ONE scripture that gives homosexuality the thumbs up. if you are going to challenge someone, make sure YOU can live up to that challenge yourself. if you can't, maybe you ought to go somewhere else. as soon as you provide me one, i will give you more than you asked me to give you. deal? "

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ernie wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:52 AM:

" Real Facts, it's the mean words you use to deliver your message and the "mean feel" of you blogs that screams anger. "Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath." Lose the anger for a few hours, walk away from your computer, and go smile at the sun that out and shining brightly. "

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scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:49 AM:

" RF: just as we disagree on our Christian beliefs, we also seem to disagree on what it means to have integrity. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:49 AM:

" (sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:19 AM: " RF: I have to say I DO love the fact that you said you hate the sin and not the sinner. Because, in reality, aren't we all sinners"?). ABSOLUTELY. don't think for a minute just because i am not "PC", that i will tell the truth and i will not hold back because i am afraid of what people think, that somehow equates to me thinking i am better or more "righteous" than others. i am a sinner saved by grace, and NOT from anything i can do. i DO NOT consider myself above ANYONE. i will however ALWAYS tell the truth "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:43 AM:

" (scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM: " RF: do you also equally preach to those in fast food restaurants who masturbate, have pre-martial sex, and/or are divorced?). what ARE you here for anyway? i know you read that i purposefully go out of my way to talk to the gay person at the fast food restaurant in town. i have NEVER said one word about Jesus Christ to him, nor do i intend to. i merely make sure i talk to him, because alot of people wouldn't, just because they know he's gay. your other comments are rediculous as well. if you can't ask a legitimate question, find someone who can "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:38 AM:

" scout, your Dec 19 10:22 AM; yep, a result of choice. while i do not trivialize that choice in that in alot of cases there are difficulties that may have led to that choice, and i am sensitive to that. in the end it is still a choice. God did not "design" homosexuality into a person, then turn around and condemn it as sexual sin. the rest of your "questions / accusations" show your not here for integrity purposes. if your going to challenge me on the issues, be a man, not a little boy. "

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scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:34 AM:

" RF: please send me one scripture that specifically says it is ok to blog on the local newspapers wbsite. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:30 AM:

" (sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:17 AM: " RF: I am far from lazy). i stand by what i said about you, until you prove otherwise. i don't level accusations unless i know it's true. whats true about you (so far) is that you are lazy about reading what the bible actually does say about homosexuality. you parrot others belief, over "homework". because if you did, you would aknowledge the fact that it only condemns it whenever it refers to it. i asked anybody to show me ONE scripture that OK's it. if you weren't "lazy", you would have provided it. you can always prove me wrong about you, by actually doing your "homework". "

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scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM:

" RF: do you also equally preach to those in fast food restaurants who masturbate, have pre-martial sex, and/or are divorced? "

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scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:23 AM:

" RF: according to you gays and lesbians have simply made bad "choices". Based on this logic, is it thus fair to say that you are equally sexually attracted to those of the same sex as you as well as to those of the opposite sex? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:21 AM:

" lodian; i am a Christian. i do not affiliate myself with any denomination purposefully, because when the time comes, the denominational issue won't matter squat when we SINGULARLY stand before Jesus Christ. i am currently in between churches, and am "church shopping". i am used to go to a non denominational chuch, but wouldn't be opposed to a denomination should God lead me there. does that answer it? if not, let me know (i won't run and hide from any question) "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:19 AM:

" RF: I have to say I DO love the fact that you said you hate the sin and not the sinner. Because, in reality, aren't we all sinners? "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:18 AM:

" That is why I believe God accordingly resolved to chastise them for their arrogance, and not only chose to uproot their city, but to blast their land so completely that it should yield neither plant nor fruit whatsoever from that time forward. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:18 AM:

" My point is that after studying more than one interpretation of the bible, I believe the Sodomites where overwhelmingly proud of their numbers and the extent of their wealth. They showed themselves insolent to men and impious to the divinity, insomuch that they no more remembered the benefits that they had received from Him. They hated foreigners and avoided any contact with others. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:17 AM:

" RF: I am far from lazy. I attended a Catholic University and have studied the bible for quite some time, so please do not accuse me of not doing my homework. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 10:08 AM:

" lodian; more on your post Dec 19 8:54 AM: as far as would i have a gay person babysit, teach, coach or speak with my children? that would depend. i would treat it the same way i do anybody. it's both a moral and character issue. if i was assured 100% that i knew the person had character, and could keep their immoral lifestyle in check, absolutely. it's the same with anybody who is in a place of influence over your children. homosexual people are valuable people, who have made bad choices. it doesn't exclude them from humanity, or my life. being honest, i doubt i would let a gay person babysit my children "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:52 AM:

" Lodian;your post to me on Dec 19 8:54 AM; of course i would have a gay person in my home for dinner. i have a gay friend now. i have known him for a very long time, and i have NEVER turned my back on him, despite me knowing full well that he has chosen a homosexual lifestyle. i would do anything for him. the question "would you patronize a business with a gay person" shows you don't read my responses to you. TWICE i responded that i PURPOSEFULLY talk to a gay young man everytime i frequent a certain fast food place in town. maybe if you took the time to read what i write, you would know it has nothing to do with hate, and everything to do with telling the truth as per Gods word "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:52 AM:

" real facts: You may not think so, but your posts sound like you definitely condemn homosexuals and hate them. Where's the love? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:50 AM:

" Do you not care to answer the question on where you attend church? What religion? Also, will you not answer my questions in my 8:54am post? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:40 AM:

" leonard;your post to me on Dec 19, 2007 5:22 AM is another lame attempt at running away from your responsibility. your the one who comes in here and passes himself off as someone who knows what the bible says. then when you have someone that actually does know, and challenges you to come clean on it, you run and hide. your never at a loss for words, until i ask you to qualify yourself biblically, then you laugh it off because your not man enough TO qualify it. you make statements, then you refuse to back it up. that is the truth about you leonard. answer the questions "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:31 AM:

" lodian;as per your Dec 19th 8:50 AM post, don't put words in my mouth that i have not said, nor paint me as something i am not. where did i ever say i condemned homosexuals or hate them? EVER? i have consistently parroted what the word of God say about homosexuality, that it condemns the sin. i specifically laid out in this blog that i DO NOT hate homosexuals, but i hate ANY sin in ANY sector of life. you need to quit equating telling the truth with "hate". did Jesus love people, but hate their sin, and at every turn he took a stand against it, correct? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:23 AM:

" scout; whats "hateful" about telling the truth? i said those people were lazy, and thats the truth about them. people parrot all the time the muses of other people, without doing their homework. it's not a matter of disagreeing with anybody either, as that is a lazy arguement as well. since we are talking about the things of God, there is only ONE defining quotient; what does God say about it? if God does say something certain about it, then you must adjust to it, or not claim that you are. it's not like a person cannot know for sure. they can, IF they are not lazy. it has nothing to do with me "

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real facts wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:16 AM:

" ernie, please don't confuse my penchance for telling the truth about subject matter, or people, as being angry. the only thing that irritates me (in here), is when people mis-represent Gods word (on purpose), and in turn are giving a free pass to sin. i cannot stand there, and let that happen, nor should i per Gods word. there comes a time when you cannot tolerate sin, and the perpetuation of it. in a world of "PC", telling the truth these days somehow gets translated as anger "

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Ernie wrote on Dec 19, 2007 9:01 AM:

" RF: There is so much anger in your blogs. Emerson had a great quote,"For every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind." "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:54 AM:

" real facts: Would you invite a gay person into your home for dinner? Would you allow a gay person to babysit, teach, coach or speak with your children? Would you patronize the business of a person that you know to be gay? If you knew a person to be gay and that person needed your help, would you be there for that person? "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:52 AM:

" Scout, well said ! and a Merry Christmas to you ! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:51 AM:

" real facts: What's your bottom line here? Do you want us all to agree with you that gay people are sinners and we should all hate and condemn them? Your condescending tone does not help you in trying to get your point across. In your view, are there worse sins than being gay? Are there other things that get you this worked up? And lastly, maybe I missed it, but what religion are you and what church do you attend? Just curious. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:42 AM:

" Well, I am glad that someone has reminded RF that he is not God. "

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scout wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:39 AM:

" RF: I support your freedom of religion. But understand you do not represent "Christiantity" as a whole. Christians, like myself, who do not believe what you do are not lazy, ignorant, or further from God than you. We simply disagree with you. And you are not God. Jesus did not hate, nor did he promote it. It's Christmas, show some love and compassion. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:13 AM:

" Brian: I think most people understand that the Bible was not written in English. I hope they understand that, at least. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:07 AM:

" We are all children of God. The best way we can serve him is to love one another, have compassion, forgive, and not condemn others. Brian, I can only speak for myself. Merry Christmas to you, and Peace Out. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:07 AM:

" i had been taught to "be good" out of fear of eternal damnation in the fires of hell. i was good because I was afraid. My eyes were opened and I learned that the way to God is through love, not fear. "

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sam wrote on Dec 19, 2007 8:06 AM:

" Brian, I am not a sheep who blindly follows Leonard's comments. I was raised a strict Catholic. I was taught to believe what I was told and never ever question anything. Then I took quite a few history of Religion classes and my eyes were opened, as well as my heart. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 19, 2007 7:54 AM:

" I've just realized that the word homosexual is a recent word to be invented. Leonard's kept us busy arguing that Jesus never mentioned homosexuali. All the while Leonard of all people should have known this word is not from bibical times. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:22 AM:

" RF: Just because you think you know everything doesn't mean that you do. Read the Bible. Try to accept Christ's message of Love in your heart. Use that message to inform your understanding. I would like to think that in this Season of Joy, there is hope even for the likes of you. Hate corrodes all that it touches and, often, the hater is the one who suffers the most from its effects. May God Bless you with His Grace. Merry Christmas! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:18 AM:

" RF: Chuckle... you really like to hear yourself talk, don't you? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 19, 2007 5:12 AM:

" Brian: I have tried to be patient with you as well. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:46 PM:

" leonard; another thing i asked you to do, and you (again) tried to slither away from, is what the biblical definition of "immorality" is? should be cake for someone as adept as you at knowing what the bible teaches and means. you tried to skate from it because you can't answer that question (biblically) without an indictment against homosexual sex. now lets see you twist this one on your agenda roller coaster. answer the question (biblically) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:38 PM:

" Lodian your words;(" Brian(re 9:27pm post): I have a strong feeling that sam thinks for herself quite well"). don't be impressed with a person who "thinks for themselves"", unless that position reflects exactly the very will of God, given to humanity, via HIS standards. who really thinks they will be able to stand before God on their day of judgement, and be able to use the excuse "it's how i felt"? anybody who is remotely honest, knows that the only thing that counts is what God said, not what "we" felt. your only kidding yourself. you adjust TO the truths of God as per Gods standards, or you will be judged because of your lack. thats truth 101 "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:30 PM:

" leonard, or anybody else in here that keeps quoting bible verses as if they know what the bible actually teaches, i want to see ANYBODY find ONE verse in the entirety of the bible, that says any kind of homosexual sex is given a thumbs up. JUST ONE. leonard, i have asked you to do this repeatedly, and you have refused, attempting to slither away from it. you think yourself such an expert about biblical interpretation, be a man and defend your position. people look like hypocrites that post biblical passages, but refuse to debate it's actuallities. just one people "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:58 PM:

" lodian and sam; so you both "agree" with what leonard said (in 1:24pm post), but your both too lazy to look into what the bible actually says about what happened at sodom and gommorah. i did YOUR homework, and now you can read it yourself in jude verse 7, plus why there is even the word "sodomy" to begin with. you both don't know the full truth, because you don't want to. what do you two want to bet that you two won't read the jude 7 passage for yourself? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:44 PM:

" Brian(re 9:27pm post): I have a strong feeling that sam thinks for herself quite well. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:34 PM:

" leonard; you do know where the word "sodomy" came from, right? it's origin is completely derived from the bible. you know, that "pick and choose" book that you personally have called a "fable"? what do you think sodomy refers to? marriage between a man and a woman, or sex between men? the ONLY time sodomy is refered to in the bible, is in it's description of sex between two men. sodomy is the term that came from the HISTORY of what happened at SODOM and gomorrah. i told you that you don't care what the bible actually teaches "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:24 PM:

" leonard; your own words ...("RF: The Sin of Sodom and Gomorah was inhospitality and rape").i told you not to play this game, as i will only embarrass you by consistently proving you have NO idea what your talking about. you either make things up, or copy and paste things from anti-Christian sites. the book of jude verse 7 begs to differ. it states it was because of the sexual sin of immorality, INCLUDING homosexuality (strange flesh) that God destroyed sodom. read it yourself, then lets see your lame excuse. it says it in plain language that even you can't run from "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:07 PM:

" leonard; here is your OWN words...("The passage you cited from Timothy must be taken in that context when we ask ourselves what is actually Scriptural"). the perfect self indictment of your personal unwillingness to determine what Gods word actually says, because you don't care. your own words show how you only choose to believe the "parts" that you like. the rest you throw on the "it doesn't fit MY view" ....PILE. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 9:59 PM:

" leonard, your post read ..(" RF: I believe the word of Jesus Christ. The fact that you consider that a joke does not surprise me."). at the risk of ridcule for me being so blunt and truthful, your statement is an absolute crock. what i would give to have access to ALL your former posts in these blogs over the year that i have watched your posts. you have bagged on the bible as being from God. now all of a suddeen you "feign" belief in it. thats baloney. if anything, you only "believe" the parts you want to. what a joke "

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Brian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 9:28 PM:

" Sam, You've fallen right into Leonard's trap. He now has you taking his side all the while he jots down misinformation about me and others. Take a look at some of the previous posts. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 9:25 PM:

" Leonard, I've really tried to be patient with you. Real facts and I have both gone way beyond what we should have. I'll go for now. Of course you'll take my leaving this blog as a victory on your part. You're so full of yourself. Now you acknoweledge that Sodom and Gomorah were gay and immoral. Now you're trying to suggest i am now the hipocryte. Real facts, he's all yours. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 7:10 PM:

" Hey Brian, read a bit more on Sodom and Gomorah. I was raised a Christian, (and still am one) and the story of Sodom and Gomorah condemned all that was evil about those cities. Read a bit more. (No insults intended.) "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 6:59 PM:

" Brian: Are you trying to suggest that the rapes at Sodom would have been OK if they had been heterosexual rapes? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 6:57 PM:

" LOL! I like it when Brian tries to tell me what I think. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 6:27 PM:

" Of course Leonard is still busy patting himself on the back. He cheers for himself. He also is steadfast at making himself the moderator of this blog. He feels content to alter the subject matter to his liking. He has now twisted the word of God to make it look like Sodom and Gomorah had a different type of immoralityn even though God condemned all immorality Leonard still is convinced God didn't speak of homosexuality because it wasn't immoral. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 5:43 PM:

" Leonard, pertaining to 3:31 and 3:32 blogs... AMEN ! "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 3:32 PM:

" I suspect that the Bible would be very different today if the Roman Emperors had not seized control of the ancient Church. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 3:31 PM:

" Metric: I have great faith in the Gospels. What I have less faith in is the editing and ammendation that was done by the Roman Emperors in the Church Council's of the Fourth Century. Would modern Christians allow George W Bush or Bill Clinton to ransack the Bible, tossing out some Scriptures and adding others? Of course not. That's what makes me wonder why they so many of them are perfectly content to accept equivalent changes made 1700 years ago. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Wow, Leonard(1:24pm), that was very well said! "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 1:43 PM:

" Leonard, I agree with your 1:24 post 100%. "

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Metric Time System wrote on Dec 18, 2007 1:40 PM:

" Leonard: your belief that God has not preserved His Word is similar to the Mormons or the Islamists who claim their special revelation trumps a corrupted Bible. I believe God is powerful enough to keep the integrity of His Word wholly pure and intact. He used men to pen it and men to compile it. God uses people for His purpose and glory. I think it would be absurd to think that God spoke the universe into existence, yet could not keep His holy word to us from being compromised. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 1:24 PM:

" RF: The Sin of Sodom and Gomorah was inhospitality and rape. I am sure that Christ would have condemned the Gomorahrites just as strongly as he would condemn the modern day Pharisees who seek to bar homosexuals from Christian fellowship. Individuals like yourself are the true successors to the people of Sodom. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 1:22 PM:

" RF: I believe the word of Jesus Christ. The fact that you consider that a joke does not surprise me. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:46 AM:

" Leonard wrote Dec 1811:10 AM:(" Metric: When I read the Bible, I ALWAYS start with the Gospels. These books give us the words of Christ and thus, literally, the Word of God"). maybe you can explain how when God destroyed sodom and gommorah because of rampant sin (including homosexuality), why Jesus Christ's position (according to you) would be that he didn't condemn it? Jesus Christ is God. God doesn't "change his mind" about anything. he condemned it in sodom, and would ALWAYS. explain that one away leonard? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:40 AM:

" sam; read my 11:35am post to leonard. you too have said the same things about Christianity and the bible, then you come here and quote all these verses that you think you like concerning these issues. what about the ones you don't like or don't agree with? you can't have it both ways, and then pretend you honor God thru his word. a person either believes it all, or none at all. it's not a situation in life where you pick and choose. God chooses, and you adjust ...or you don't, and you become hypocritical because OF it "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:35 AM:

" leonard; what surpasses hypocritical and goes straight to lunacy, is your backwards comments over the last year about how you consistently maintain the bible is NOT Gods word, and in fact (according to you), is nothing but the result of "man". you have consistently trashed the bible as being from God, then you turn around and "quote" it to somehow underline your point. like i said about you, your words don't match your claims. your a study in futility, based in hypocrisy. make up your mind leonard. it shows you have no idea what your talking about. define immorality, like i saked you "

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real facts wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:29 AM:

" leonard; what a joke in your ability to interpret Gods word. YOU pick and choose what you want to believe, according to your agenda. a person who rightfully interprets Gods word, does so by allowing Gods word to interpret ITSELF. i have seen you time again, turn away the truths of Gods word, by dismissing it just because it didn't fit your agenda. the O.T. is the pre-cursor to the new, and you cannot rightfully interpret Gods word without the comparison aspects of the old. your so hypocritical in this, it's not even funny anymore. it's pathetic "

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ernie wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:24 AM:

" Sam, here is one more "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (NIV, Matthew 7:12)" "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:14 AM:

" Metric: What we now refer to as the "Bible" is the result of a series of Ecumenical Councils that were conducted under the thumb of the Roman Emperor in the 4th Century AD. Some books that were politically inconvenient for the powers that be were deleted while other books were edited to suit the needs of the Empire. The passage you cited from Timothy must be taken in that context when we ask ourselves what is actually Scriptural. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:11 AM:

" Lodian... you keep dancing that "Happy Dance". Thanks for all the "work " you did convincing LNS this was the way to go. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:10 AM:

" One last one ""For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. "But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. (NAS, Matthew 6:14-15)" "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:10 AM:

" Metric: When I read the Bible, I ALWAYS start with the Gospels. These books give us the words of Christ and thus, literally, the Word of God. When it comes to the rest of the Bible, I let my understanding of the Gospels inform my reading. Obviously, there are passages in the OT and in Paul which stand in direct opposition to Christ's teachings so, in those situations, I set the anti Christian passages aside. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:09 AM:

" "There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even the heathen do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. (TLB, Matthew 5:43-48) "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:07 AM:

" Well said, Lodian. According to the Leviticus we should all be stoned. LOL. Jesus said "The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' "The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (NAS, Mark 12:28-31)" "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:01 AM:

" Lodian does the "Happy Dance"!!! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 11:00 AM:

" ernie: Yes, it's me...the original Lodian. :-) I guess I should feel fortunate to have snagged the handle this morning. I still can't believe we can log-in now. "

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ernie wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:40 AM:

" Actually 10593, I believe man wrote the bible. Some say inspired by God, but wasn't it Constantine who took control and picked what should and should not be in the bible? "

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ernie wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:37 AM:

" Lodian, are you the original Lodian??? Glad you got your blog handle. No more imposters. "

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10593 wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:36 AM:

" To the author's last question; The Church doesn't set the rules, God does. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:21 AM:

" Well said, eek. Also, the greedy, drunks, slanderers and swindlers can be added to that list. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 18, 2007 10:20 AM:

" WQell said, eek. Also, the greedy, drunks, slanderers and swindlers can be added to that list. "

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sam wrote on Dec 18, 2007 9:24 AM:

" eek, I agree with your 12/17 5:26 blog. I too am curious why all the hatred towards gays? Divorce, masturbation, adultery and pre-marital sex are all condemned in the bible. I say he who is without sin, feel free to start casting your stones. "

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Metric Time System wrote on Dec 18, 2007 8:10 AM:

" Leonard: How did you become the supreme arbitrator of what is true in the Bible and and what is a lie? 2Tim.3:16 says "ALL scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness". Or is that part of the Bible a lie too? "

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wellwell wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:27 PM:

" Me thinks Brian is going to trade in his 3 pointed admirals hat for some rubber sandals and long robes. Did God speak in internet addresse's? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:18 PM:

" EEK; you and i both know the "paiderasste" arguement is weak, because the WHOLE of Gods word is that it's stance on homosexual sex never varies. it condemns it. the O.T. condemns it, as does Jesus Christ, as does paul. nowhere in the bible is there any thumbs up given to it, whenever it is referenced. anytime it is, it is condemned. by a running commentary on the subject matter throughout the entire bible, it's condemned. show me ONE scripture where it does? biblically, the only accepted sex is married men and women "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:00 PM:

" Brian: Asking a right wing hate group like the so called "Americans for Truth" for information about homosexuals is like asking a Nazi for information about Jews. The response you get will, to say the very least, be biased. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:57 PM:

" johnny s; you know pictures don't lie (usually). there is photographic evidence of sexual acts in public at that fair. maybe you didn't see it, but it happened. funny how you didn't condemn it IF it did? rome fell BECAUSE of debauchery. you purposefully lied about sodom and Gomorrha, knowing full well the biblical account gives the reason FOR it's destruction, including homosexuality. i said "pockets" of civilizations have flourished, but eventually imploded. so will the netherlands. show me where homosexuallity has ever been accepted as "natural" ? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:49 PM:

" lodian; i DO NOT condemn anybody ever. that is Gods description, should they not live up to HIS standards, after they die. i condemn the "sin" of homosexuality, with the same fervor i do ANY sin that seperates any man from God. i have been at LNS for over a year now, and i have never ONCE told ANYBODY they are going to hell. sometimes it's obvious that people are being opposite of Gods standards, only God judges mans eternity. Christians are called to uphold the standards, while leaving eternal judgement to God. condemnation of sin, doesn't equal hate "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:35 PM:

" if i am going to claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ, i am going to mirror evrything he has stated as HIS standards for living. you don't go against the designer, and then say for certainty that you are righteous before him. you pick his ways, no matter how much that costs you in popularity. so we will play the game your way. you say i hate gays (which i don't. i "hate" their sin). bring up any other arena of life and i will mirror the same standards. you obviously didn't read what i wrote "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:27 PM:

" lodian; i am not trying to be rude, but i will always tell the truth. if YOU would actually read the bible for yourself, instead of what you have heard or "want" to believe, you would know out of all the reference's of it, it only condemns the act of it. notice when i asked the people in here that always seem to think they know what the bible says, to show me ONE scripture that ok's it, that they don't? it's because there is only condemnation of it. con't-----> "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:19 PM:

" another episcopalian; "divisions" are actually Godly, in that they bring to the surface, the fact that there are people who are interested only in what God thinks and says to them, and live like it. while some play the game of "Christianity" as if it is some sort of country club. Jesus Christ WAS divisionary. the word of God is divisionary, in that it is never complacent about sin. people outside of Christianity bag on the fact there are so many divisions within, whereas it's actually a good thing, as it should be on issues like this one. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:05 PM:

" (dan posted Dec 17 8:24 AM: " And, RF, no). it wasn't like i was holding my breath for you to have integrity as a human being, thats probably never going to happen. people resort to lying and smearing peoples character, because they don't HAVE a position that they can defend with integrity. as usual, i hold up the mirror that shows exactly what your like. what happened to my challenge for YOU to show me wherever in history, that homosexuality was accepted, wherein that society didn't eventually implode. you too leonard "

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to Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:00 PM:

" How do you know when I have blogged or not? I am sure your real name is Lodian...then. "

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Blog says wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:57 PM:

" Anyone remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Despite the fact that I believe the homosexual lifestyle is against the laws of God and nature, I do not believe in hateful speech or other behaviors that can somehow injure another. As Christians we were called to love one another....not always agree...Sometimes you have to turn the tables in the temple, though. "

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to Perry wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:53 PM:

" I am sorry that your views are tainted with such a hateful tone. In intellectual discourse people who are in a loding postition usually resort to personal attacks. Find a better argument....In the meantime, leave my faith alone. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:53 PM:

" leonard; what makes you think this is just a "homosexual" disturbance in the force? if anything, i am 180 degree's different than you, at arriving at truth in my life, because i actually pick truth over agenda. thus, i would condemn ANY act of this nature by ANYBODY, including hetero's. yikes leonard. plus you know that sripture in mark 7 excludes any sex outside of marriage, because immorality is just that. i asked you to show me ONE scripture in the entire bible that gives a thumbs up to ANY homosexual sex. you didn't, because there isn't. NOT ONE "

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to Leonard wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:51 PM:

" "BLOG" says...then don't deprive me of my right of free speech. I do not ascribe to the idea that I have to "accept" the homosexual lifestyle....I may have to tolerate it though. Why aren't MY rights of free speech and thought as valid (and accepted) as those who espouse a different lifestyle. I say you have a serious case of "double standard". "

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rv wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:36 PM:

" A Christian church will open its doors to all. It will not have a homosexual pastor-read the bible. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 17, 2007 6:03 PM:

" 12x: Corinthians was written by Paul, not Christ. Jesus Christ (the Messiah) may have condemned a lot of sins but he never said a word about homosexuality. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:52 PM:

" http://americansfortruth.com/news/tolerance-gone-wild-in-san-francisco-as-cops-stand-by-amidst-folsom-street-fairs-public-perversions-and-widespread-nudity.html Johnny S, You'll need to explain this link to all your buds who attended this event that you didn't see any of these activities as documented on this link. You'll also need to explain to your friends that have children why there is a child and also a stroller in these pictures. "

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Dan wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:40 PM:

" Brian, no, you are again wrong. I never quoted Jesus. It seems I am being heavily censored here so will have to be content watching the Christian bigotry be granted unfettered blog space. When the haters come out to play, that's when 3/4 of my blogs get cut. "

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eek wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:36 PM:

" I am just curious, why do people get so angry towards gays and lesbians. There are a lot of things to be angry about in this world. Why this? And if people want to focus on sex, why not blog about masturbation, divorce, or pre-marital sex? Is it because the majority of population participate in the latter actions while only 10% are gay? "

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eek wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:26 PM:

" 12X: Corinthians was written in greek by Paul. The word for homosexual in greek during that time period was paiderasste. Paul never uses this word. He uses the word "arsenokoitai" which some English Bible's incorrectly translate to "homosexual" when in reality it means sex crime a kin to rape or some other sexual assault. The bible never condemns homosexuality. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 4:38 PM:

" Brian: Where do you base your belief that "...immoral sex and homosexuality is one in the same"? And please state where this is spoken of in the bible. If the bible is not your reference then please explain where/how you have come to the conclusion that being gay is immoral. "

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Ty Boyd wrote on Dec 17, 2007 3:01 PM:

" Blog: Lodian is right. It says in the bible that a man and a woman should marry, but it never says being gay is a sin. "

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Ty Boyd wrote on Dec 17, 2007 2:50 PM:

" I go to a Cristian church and I personaly have no problem with gays. I don't think they can change who they are. If the world were under populated and we needed more babies to be born then that would be another story. But instead it is the opposite. "

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Johnny S wrote on Dec 17, 2007 11:40 AM:

" Concerning the Folsom Street Fair: I've been to that particular event. There is NO public masturbation, sex, or orgies. People are discouraged from bringing their children. Brian's bearing false witness. Real Facts: Funny you should talk about civilizations destroyed by homosexuality, because according to actual history, it's never happened. Rome fell after putting an end to debauchery and becoming Christian. Sodom and Gomorrha, according to the Bible, were destroyed for inhospitality and lack of compassion. The Netherlands, bastion of homosexuality, has flourished since becoming so liberal. In short, stop using religion to justify bigotry. Jesus wouldn't condone hate. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 10:50 AM:

" blog: Please site chapter and verse in the bible where it supports your view and why you "disagree with the homosexual lifestyle using a biblical argument". "

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Where's God wrote on Dec 17, 2007 10:42 AM:

" I'm waiting to here from God himself before I believe anything! Somebody as powerful as God should tell us how he really feels himself not thru third parties!! "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:47 AM:

" blog: Why are you so upset? That is the first post you've made here! How could anyone consider you intolerant when we haven't heard your thoughts on the topic yet? "

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dogbark wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:23 AM:

" With a bit of Christian tolerance we all can get over this. Afterall, one whole segment of protestantism was founded to give a king a divorce even though the only sin that appears in all four gospels was divorce defined as adultery by Jesus himself. We have learned to tolerate that, even having divorced and remarried clergy at some pulpits. So accepting homosexuality as just one of God's many varieties in life will come eventually. Then we can move on to hating... redheads? Freckles? Hammertoes? "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 9:12 AM:

" real facts (1:29pm): Yes, it does sound like you hate people that are gay. Being penchant is one thing, but you sound consumed with the subject of people that are gay. Where does it say that being gay is a sin? And is preaching hate and condemning someone that is gay acceptable in your religion/church/bible? Do they go over this topic at church or at bible study? And again, I'm wondering... what religion are you? "

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12x wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:53 AM:

" I Cor.6:9 says "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders." Clear and understandable. "

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Another Episcopalian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:28 AM:

" Isn't it interesting how we all allow our organized religions to divide us -- all over the world? "

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Dan wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:24 AM:

" And, RF, no. "

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Cognito...it's "you're" !!! wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:19 AM:

" Your = possessive You're is "you are" "

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Episcopalian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 8:17 AM:

" Makes one long for the "good old days" when EVERYBODY considered their sexual preference a private matter. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 17, 2007 7:35 AM:

" Blog, Leonard and Dan are so busy splitting hairs that Jesus never actually spoke of homosexuality even though they really know immoral sex and homosexuality is one in the same. It seems to me they may have to meet their maker so HE can set the record straight. They're in for a rude awakening. "

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Berphis wrote on Dec 17, 2007 5:37 AM:

" Anyone who tries to legitimate an Old Testament tradition that involves killing homosexuals and then tries to suggest that this tradition should be the foundation for modern laws is, indeed, a bigot. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. "

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Did ya notice wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:07 PM:

" Those that believe that science can explain everything like evolution, can`t stand to have that same argument thrown in their face when science goes against their beliefs. "

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Did ya notice wrote on Dec 16, 2007 9:04 PM:

" Mr. Roberts did not quote the Bible even one time in this column. His are more scientific observations than religious rantings. "

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Perry to Blog wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:44 PM:

" You would have been intolerant whether you brought your superstition to the conversation or not. The fact that you believe in some an old man that killed his own kid (but then reanimated him) and lives in the clouds doesn't give you a license to hate. "

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Leoanrd wrote on Dec 16, 2007 5:49 PM:

" Blog: If you seek to deprive people of their basic human rights you are an intolerant bigot regardless of what book you are thumping. "

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Leoanrd wrote on Dec 16, 2007 5:48 PM:

" RF: Don't get your panties in a bundle. I read the passage in question and, if anything, it is an argument FOR gay marriage. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 16, 2007 5:47 PM:

" That said, this sort of thing happens all over the country. Bourbon Street in New Orleans, for example, is famous for the swarms of topless women and public sex shows (hetero). That sort of thing doesn't get Brian and RF's ire however because, in the end, their homophobia is driven by hate and fear, not any love of public decency. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 16, 2007 5:46 PM:

" I would just like to say that I am categorically against public nudity regardless of whether the nude people in question are heterosexual or homosexual. In 99.99% of the cases, this sort of thing is just plain unsightly. "

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blog wrote on Dec 16, 2007 3:52 PM:

" It is interesting that if you disagree with the homosexual lifestyle using a biblical argument then you are deemed an intolerant bigot. What is appparent to me is that we can no longer have intellectual discourse over this issue. Once I bring in my spiritual foundation for the discussion, I am considered intolerant.....Wouldn't one call that religious intolerance? NOW who is the bigot? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 2:25 PM:

" brian, when it comes down to it, it's not a matter of "liberal" or "conservative". what matters is the truth, and specifically in this blog we are talking about the truths as per Gods standards, not secular "feelings". whats telling is those that "claim" a relationship TO God, but abhor his known standards. if it IS the truth, you adjust to it whether you like it or not. we can't "pick and choose" IF we are to please God. you see in here the demonstration of people who aren't remotely interested in truth, but "claim" they are. pathetic "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 2:16 PM:

" Dan; on your Dec 16 6:04 AM post, you bet i have a comment. do you think it might be possible, that before you die, you will actually act like a civilised human being? what person has to purposefully lie about a persons character, in order to make his "point". your sick dan. you know brian never went to the fair in SF, yet your sickened heart had to say that. you may not agree with whats said in here, but don't lie, and don't smear people. tell the truth and see where that leads you. FOR ONCE "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 2:10 PM:

" leonard; in my post to you on dec 15th at 1:14pm i asked you to condemn the acts committed by homosexuals in public in SF. your reply (in your post on dec 15th at 8:16pm) was one bent around your pathetic liberal stance. you flaked again, making the lame statement "i have never been to the folsom street fair". makes no difference. it occured and YOU know it, but couldn't get yourself to condemn it because of your weak heart. that post demonstrates your unwillingness to embrace anything remotely true. a noble man would have adjusted TO truth "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 2:00 PM:

" (Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:50 PM: " To be honest, given the power of the hate that Real Facts has displayed here). what "hate" leonard? you mean my penchance for accuretly mirroring the standards of God that bother your soul? least i am not hypocritical about it. you trumpet that you believe and "follow" Christ, yet at every turn, you trash Gods word by steering clear of it's obvious teachings. your actions don't match your claims. it's pathetic how you base your decisions in life on anger and "liberalism". you can't handle the truth "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 1:51 PM:

" leonard; i want to make sure this doesn't fall thru the cracks, so that people like you can't use that liberal lame arguement that "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality" (i proved that wrong). answer this leonard, since Christ would never detour from O.T. standards, and the O.T. was blatantly against homosexual sex, what makes you think anyway that Christ would give the thumbs up about homosexuality. just in keeping with the O.T. alone, he would condemn it. your problem is your not interested in truth, not that it "isn't" true. what your excuse now? "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 1:45 PM:

" leonard; i DID read it, and thats EXACTLY what it says. wanna bet YOU didn't read it, but turned a blind eye to it because it doesn't fit your agenda? you wouldn't adjust to truth if you had to, which proves the condition of your heart.it INCLUDES homosexual sex. what do you think he meant by "immorality"? the O.T. condemed it, and Christ would not have gone against the O.T. the ONLY sex in the bible that is approved, is in a marriage between a man/woman. you have no idea what it really does say, and you don't care "

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Merry Christmas wrote on Dec 16, 2007 1:34 PM:

" Glad to see so many of our Christian community members are practicing what they preach by loving their neighbors and spreading peace on Earth. Jesus would be proud. I know he always preached that hate was the way to heaven. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 16, 2007 1:29 PM:

" to Lodian on your Dec 15 11:35 PM post;where did you get that idea? because i oppose homosexuality from a biblical stance, DOES NOT mean i "hate" homosexuals. i despise ANY sin that seperates anyone from God. maybe you got lost in the translation of my consistent behavior of always being willing to tell the truth, without being "PC". there is a young man in lodi that works at a fast food place that is gay. i ALWAYS make it a point to talk with him when i go there. if i hated "gays", i wouldn't do that "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:39 PM:

" The mainstream media should cover this event with cameras in hand. There's an unbelievable news story here. The Folsom Street Fair is reminiscent of Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah, and the media should document exactly what the city of San Francisco is allowing to occur - in public - in the name of 'tolerance.'" "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:37 PM:

" Good Dan, then you must condone what Senator Larry Craig did in that restroom. I condemn both. A spade is a spade. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth again, Dan. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:34 PM:

" "The most unimaginable and vile acts of debauchery are commonplace during the fair. Senator Larry Craig was arrested and driven out of the Senate for allegedly soliciting public 'gay' sex, yet during this event the city of San Francisco suspends the law and allows 'gay' men and women to parade the streets fully nude, many having sex - even group orgies - in broad daylight, while taxpayer funded police officers look on and do absolutely nothing." "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:22 PM:

" WRONG AGAIN DAN! Unlike liberals who want to impose a fairness doctrine on talk radio, I am opposed to unfair government censorship of any sort. You speak so much like a liberal out of one side of your mouth and then the other side speaks conservative. It seems to me you lean to what ever the wind blows you to. Honestly Dan, your theory of a Christian Jihad is far less likely to happen than an Islamic Jihad in America. Neither of which will ever happen. Given a choice, I'll take some form of absolute Christianity over absolute Islam. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 12:01 PM:

" Brian: Why do you hate homosexuals? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 16, 2007 10:41 AM:

" Brian and RF: Again, I have never been to a Folsom Street Fair and, to be honest, I am not exactly sure what they are but the fact that Brian apparently flies in from Arizona to attend while RF drives from Lodi does not lead me to think that they could be much fun. Whatever they are, you all are barking up the wrong tree on this one. "

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Dan wrote on Dec 16, 2007 8:57 AM:

" Well, of COURSE I condone the Fair. I wouldn't take a minor to it, despite your wish that I would say so. The major difference between us is Brian favors government controls and censorship, while I feel Americans are free to do with themselves as they wish. Brian wishes for the takeover of the government by a Church-state, as in the middle ages. I oppose him and his Christian Jihad. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 8:18 AM:

" Leonard, Yes it's true that Democrats have no problem showing their feelings about issues. This goes the same for Republicans. The difference is obvious that Democrats are less considerate of how it affects others in many cases. It's also obvious that Nancy Pelosi is much more concerned about how much money the Gay lobby can line here pockets than the affects on society the Gay lobby has as a whole. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 8:08 AM:

" Search For Truth, I echo your sentiments. Thank you for your words of wisdom. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 8:04 AM:

" Real Facts, I'm sure you've heard of the motto liberals stand by with conviction "If it feels good do it". There's nothing more indicative of a secular ideaology than a statement such as that. Also, secular progressives are more apt to pick and choose what they feeel is most likely to fulfill their desires without any consideration for others and the ramifications it may have on society. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:48 AM:

" Dan wrote on Dec 16, 2007 6:04 AM: Going to the Fair is fine and I understand the attraction. I rest my case. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:45 AM:

" Nope Dan, Never attended and never will. Unfortunately it's becoming more and more difficult to ignore the issues. Again, Jesus warned us that in the last days this type of decadence would be widespread. I am concerned that those who condone this type of decadence are not followers of Christ or any religon. Rome fell because of this type of decadence. And so may the U.S. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:37 AM:

" Leonard and Dan, the time has come for both of you to let go of your political agenda and get back to a value based mindset. It's apparent that both of you have a vested interest in advancing the agenda of the Human Rights Council. Nancy Pelosi may have two less followers the next time she gives a speech at an HRC event if you both come to your senses. I'm sure they won't stay empty long. Jesus warned us in the bible that in the last days this type of decadence would be widespread. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 7:26 AM:

" One thing is clear here, Leonard and Dan condone the Folsom Street Fair. However, I still can't imagine Leonard or Dan strolling their babies at the fair. But then, given their rationale on how they view homos I may be wrong. Their is no doubt the fair condones child abuse becaues if the organizers had any sense of morals the fair would be held in a private place behind closed doors. So we can conclude that the Human Rights Council is only concerned about the right of self expression and doesn't give a dam about morals. "

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Dan wrote on Dec 16, 2007 6:04 AM:

" I'm interested in hearing Brian's expanation of why he keeps going to the Folsom Street Fair if it bothers him to the extent he claims here. Going to the Fair is fine and I understand the attraction, but why complain about it after he gets home? Like going to the Grape Festival and then compaining about all the grape-themed exibits and the junk food there. Any insights, RF? "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 16, 2007 5:35 AM:

" Search for Truth: I wouldn't "abandon" the religion I was raised over just one person or one comment. I said "one MORE reason". I have NOT thrown out the Baby.... (which was a bad pun considering the topic of my post). I happily celebrate Christmas and Easter and try to follow the Commandments - without any Church involvement. "

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Lodian wrote on Dec 15, 2007 11:35 PM:

" real facts: Why do you hate homosexuals? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 8:16 PM:

" RF: I have never been to a Folsom Street Fair so I don't know exactly what you are talking about but the fact that you seem to know so much about it is rather telling. The time has come for you to let go of the self hate and loathing in order to accept yourself as you really are. Those are the real facts. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 15, 2007 1:41 PM:

" i really want to see leonard condemn those acts in the streets of SF. you see, the real truth in life isn't "filtered". doesn't come down to a "whom" did it, or how many times by whom, but whether it was right in the first place. it sickens me that people in this world can't define immorality, just because of a political bent. thats pathetic. your an enabler to sinful behavior if you can't get yourself to condemn it just because it doesn't suit a liberal mindset. you can't write a blank check, and call yourself a holder of truth "

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real facts wrote on Dec 15, 2007 1:33 PM:

" to Another Episcopalian; it's simple when it gets down to it, you're either more concerned with what God thinks, and your subsequent choices will follow - or you are too concerned with the opinions of men and organizations. may i remind you that when you die, you will not be answering to any man OR organization. you will be answering to God, about the choices you made concerning him. that makes those choices a slam dunk. these arenas in life have a way about bringing to the surface what a person really believes about God (or doesn't). "

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real facts wrote on Dec 15, 2007 1:19 PM:

" believing in "God and Jesus Christ, and doing whatever one wants or "thinks" is right, is an intellectually dishonest statement. how can one say with conviction that a person "believes", yet refuses to place themselves under the authority of Christ? i especially shudder everytime i hear someone say they fully expect to go to heaven when they die, yet they DAILY shun Gods standards, preferring their own feelings and opinions, etc. "we" don't make the rules, God does. if one doesn't adhere to those rules, and say they are a "believer", they are only fooling themselves. "

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Suzanne wrote on Dec 15, 2007 1:17 PM:

" msybe, just maybe if in the creed it said "I believe" instead of "we believe" I would still be in that church. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:50 PM:

" To be honest, given the power of the hate that Real Facts has displayed here, I am beginning to wonder if everyone's favorite NeoPharisee might not be a little light in the loafers himself. There must be something driving this passion and we can be sure that it is not righteousness. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:48 PM:

" Brian: There are homosexuals in equal numbers in both parties. Those who are comfortable with their sexuality and who do not try to hide it are, by and large, Democrats. Those who skulk in in dark corners and hide their sexuality while hypocritically attacking other homosexuals are, for the most part, Repugs. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:44 PM:

" Search: Try actually reading the Bible. If you do, you will find that Jesus Christ, in the course of examining the roll of sin in humanity's life, NEVER ONCE mentioned homosexuality in all of the Gospels. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:43 PM:

" Search: I am intolerant of people who don't know the difference between "relevant" and "relative". The truth is always relevant, no matter what the bigots and hate mongers might say. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:41 PM:

" RF: Read the passage from Mark again. If you pay attention this time, you will see that there is absolutely no mention of homosexuality. Please do try to follow along. "

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Way to go wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:09 PM:

" The Episcopal church is in peril of becoming more of a cult than anything else. "

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just sayin' wrote on Dec 15, 2007 9:30 AM:

" Who gets to set the rules? God. "

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Another Episcopalian wrote on Dec 15, 2007 9:10 AM:

" Dear Episcopalian - yes, there is at least one other who has read this thread. No, the others do not feel our particular sadness, because they have chosen another path of worshiping our Lord. Please, all other brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus - understand that the Episcopal Church is an independent one, with only voluntary ties to the Anglican Communion. And it has NEVER been a fundamentalist Christian sect. So we are confused by both the fundamentalists and those that "seem" to be "just" secular humanists. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:54 AM:

" Leonard, there is no problem with my argument. It's you that have the problem. The Folsom Street Faire is an explicit event designed to do damage to the morals of indivduals. And children are allowed to attend the event too. This whole event should be banned. Anywhere else, there would be mass arrests for child abuse and public displays of sex acts. Leonard, provide me with some facts other than Mr. Craig that your imaginary closet homophobes are conservative. Perhaps this could be a theme for a novel. We'll call it "Once Upon A Time As A Conservative Homophobe". "

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Search for Truth wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:54 AM:

" If you believe that homosexuality is okay, you have a right to believe that. You also have the right to be wrong. If you choose to engage in that behavior, it is your right. But for every right there is a responsibility or consequence. And therein lies the answer. You will have to answer for your behavior. So will I. "

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Search for Truth wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:53 AM:

" Because I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, certain things are out of step with God. It is my right to believe that. I grow weary of people saying that I have to accept somebody else's interpretation of truth to be fact. "

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Search for Truth wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:48 AM:

" Why should a person who believes that this or that is wrong, be forced to accept another persons beliefs as true? That can't be answered because it's wrong. Everybody has the right to say that something is right or wrong. Or if you want to put it this way, everybody has the right to be wrong. That is it. "

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Search for Truth wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:44 AM:

" The problem with tolerance is that some people believe that truth is relevant at best. We live in a world where there are some people who preach tolerance who believe that if you do not agree with their opinion, you are being intolerant. They then condemn the allegedly intolerant for their beliefs and thus, those preaching tolerance become what they are preaching against, intolerant. "

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Search for Truth wrote on Dec 15, 2007 7:39 AM:

" nylodian, I am sorry to hear that somebody has spoken such a thing to you, which is neither correct, nor scriptural. While you make a good point, abandoning everything else because of one person's misunderstanding or misinterpretation is not good. Don't throw the Baby out with the bath water. "

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nylodian wrote on Dec 15, 2007 6:32 AM:

" I find the term "barren", offensive. To me it implies desolation. I cannot have children, but I am, by far, NOT barren. I do have some value in this world - and I contribute to it through volunteering for different causes, etc. When our priest found out my condition, he said he couldn't marry us in the Church. Just one more reason I am now a Happy Heathen! "

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john r wrote on Dec 15, 2007 6:12 AM:

" "If the church is not allowed to establish and follow a finite set of rules ... who is? There comes a time when one simply must draw a line in the sand somewhere." the rule for those who are believers is love. the three commandments (1)love the god with all your heart, (2)love your neighbor as yourself......the summation of all the law(3) love one another as i have loved you. in regards to the law........the fulfillment of the law is love. and anything.....anything without love is nothing. 1cor13 "

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Bible wrote on Dec 15, 2007 12:07 AM:

" The sodomites war is with the One True God and His Holy Word--not with the writer here. Look how much hatred and venom is unleashed by these "tolerant", loving, Christophobes, simply because they cannot stand hearing the moral standard of the Word of God. They hate God's landmark destruction of Sodom in Genesis 19 by fire and brimstone, and all the other 30 some references to this abomination throughout the Old and New Testaments. They have been given over to a "reprobate mind" (Romans 1) and because of their pride in their shameful sin, they won't repent. "

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Commonsense wrote on Dec 14, 2007 11:39 PM:

" You folks are a bunch of sick puppies. Reading tbis dribble is a perfect example of why the majority of people shun organized religion. I think most of us believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior, but a good number of people here are over the edge. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 14, 2007 11:32 PM:

" dan; according to your post on Dec 14 at 12:34 PM, your not feeling the "love"? you know i love HISTORY dan, remember? HISTORY is my absolute friend, while history consistently shows that you are lost in your sin. lets play history (again). show me ONE society in the history of the world were homosexuality was accepted and flourished, but never eventually imploded because of it. in every sector of human history, homosexuality was condemned. Christianity just "mirrors" that reflection. it never was accepted, never will be, because it's unnatural "

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real facts wrote on Dec 14, 2007 11:24 PM:

" ivan dixon; make all the "demands" you want, doesn't change a thing. "if" there is a God, yours and my "opinion" matters squat. didly squat to be precise. man in his arrogance pretends to think they can make up the rules of life with immunity. true wisdom of a man tells his heart thats not so. "if" there is a God, HE makes the standards. especially HE decides the definition of whats "loving". that definition ONLY included a committed relationship between a man and a woman. in your own futility, please continue YOUR game of "definition" "

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real facts wrote on Dec 14, 2007 11:17 PM:

" you can argue all you want about paul's words in romans chap1 (post-Christ) that explicitly condemns homsexuality, but you can't argue about the O.T.'s condemnation of it as well (pre-Christ). "if" Jesus really was the Christ, he would have upheld that position, because it WAS condemned, and Christ did, in that passage of mark 7. aside from that, there has never been a time in history where homosexuality was accepted as natural behavior. any pockets of civilisations temporary "acceptance" of it, that civilisation eventually imploded. leonard, your no biblical scholar (again) "

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real facts wrote on Dec 14, 2007 11:06 PM:

" leonard; once again you prove you have no idea what the bible says. you make things up to suit your liberal heart, then you lie about things that aren't true (biblically). Jesus DID say he condemned homosexuality in mark 7:20-22. among other things in that passage, Jesus singled out adultery AND sexual immorality. purposefully denoting them as SEPERATE. the BIBLICAL definition of sexual immorality is ANY sex outside of marriage (homosexual OR heterosexual). there is not ONE scripture in the ENTIRE BIBLE that ok's homosexual sex of ANY kind, and alot that condemn it. con't-----> "

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Larry wrote on Dec 14, 2007 9:41 PM:

" "... mankind is at this point in time infinitely more threatened by nuclear holocaust than by the lack of procreation." Yes I'll agree there. You will find homosexuality everywhere not just in humans. Every farmer knows is pretty damn natural. Homosexuality is only a pawn being used in a power play by certain bishops. If it weren't gays it would be someone else used as a scapegoat. Its the oldest trick in the book, make up an enemy you can defend people against. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 14, 2007 8:05 PM:

" http://americansfortruth.com/news/tolerance-gone-wild-in-san-francisco-as-cops-stand-by-amidst-folsom-street-fairs-public-perversions-and-widespread-nudity.html Leonard, Remember, I would say the devil is preaching from the pulpit at these hate focussed events. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 14, 2007 7:26 PM:

" http://americansfortruth.com/news/tolerance-gone-wild-in-san-francisco-as-cops-stand-by-amidst-folsom-street-fairs-public-perversions-and-widespread-nudity.html "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 7:14 PM:

" Brian: Jesus absolutely addressed the issue of genital mutilation. In the Sermon on the Mount he said "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." I think it would be a very fitting punishment for the men who enforce these ritual mutilations to have done unto them as they have done to others. Of course, Christ would have urged us to have mercy in our hearts but we can't always be perfect, can we? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 7:09 PM:

" Brian: The problem with your argument is that almost every month a raging conservative homophobe is caught in some sort of compromising homosexual situation. Whether they are soliciting sex in an airport mens room or trading sexual favors for crystal meth, the closeted conservative homophobes are being exposed at an ever increasing rate. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:56 PM:

" A recent video of what took place at the Folsom Street Fair in House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s congressional district is disturbing. The video showed naked homosexuals masturbating and having sex in public as children walked down the streets near them. Some were dressed up as animals being led around by leashes. Others were dressed in leather and being whipped. Homosexual pornography was sold openly. Leonard, do you condone this? "

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Who sets the rules? wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:37 PM:

" Any organization gets to set their own rules. If these local churches disagree that strongly with the "corporate office", then they've taken the right step for their constituents. No one is forcing anyone to accept anything. Last I looked we still have the right to take it or leave it. They're leaving it. I've got no dog in this fight but looking in from outside it seems like an honest disagreement between two schools of thought. A split was probably unavoidable if people really wanted to follow their consciences. "

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Greg wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:23 PM:

" 1) Nuclear proliferation 2) War 3) Mass starvation 4) Genocide 5) Mass murder With all this in the world, it only took one gay Bishop to break apart a mighty church 6) Gene Robinson How pathetic and how sad. And here's to you, Gene Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know You are a powerful man Gene Robinson. "

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procreation as an argument wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:21 PM:

" Is sex only for procreation? I guess logically then women who are barren, have had hysterectomies, or have gone thru menopause are just outta luck. The men, meanwhile, get to keep on trying to "procreate" with young, fertile, women for as long as they want. Wow, what a set up! While I may not understand homosexuality I think this is probably the weakest argument against it. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:20 PM:

" Leonard, Jesus never said anything about genital mutilation either. "

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Brian wrote on Dec 14, 2007 5:44 PM:

" Leonard, The typical liberal reply that most homophobes are repressing homosexual tendancies is an invention of the gay community. There really aren't any homophobes at all when speaking of the criticism the gay community gets from heterosexuals. Just like Islamophobia, it makes the ones that are criticized feel better that they can invent a fear. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 5:30 PM:

" Remember: I would say that the Devil is preaching from the pulpit in these hate focussed Churches. "

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Remember wrote on Dec 14, 2007 1:28 PM:

" The devil will be able to quote Scripture when it suits his purpose. "

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procreation as an argument wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:40 PM:

" Is sex only for procreation? I guess logically then women who are barren, have had hysterectomies, or have gone thru menopause are just outta luck. The men, meanwhile, get to keep on trying to "procreate" with young, fertile, women for as long as they want. Wow, what a set up! While I may not understand homosexuality I think this is probably the weakest argument against it. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:38 PM:

" Metric: I didn't say that all homophobes are closeted gays I just said that MOST homophobes are repressing homosexual tendencies. This blog is a perfect example. I happen to know that at least two of the anti gay posters here have been in homosexual relationships over the last 20 years. My cousin brought one of them as a date to his brothers wedding. "

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Dan wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:37 PM:

" And to Metric Time, you should have your clock re-set; every reliable study that has been conducted on the subject has supported Leonard's claim, not yours. "

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Dan wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:34 PM:

" Any actions taken by any religious institution which causes them to be recognized as the man-made bastions of hatred and bigotry they are is a good thing. The sooner their evil ways are exposed to light, the sooner they will be shunned by society. After this split, the fundamentalist South American sect will turn ever more conservative [primitive] until they occupy the same strata as fundamentalist Islam. "

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"clear teachings"??? LOL! wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:28 PM:

" Sorry, Metric, but I got a hearty chuckle out of that one.... if the Bible's teachings were so clear I highly doubt you'd have so many denominations and sects floating around. Seems to be a lot of disagreement about what the "clear teachings" are. When the Ultimate Authority is the Bible -- well, no wonder the Episcopal Church is having problems. Too many translations and interpretations make for a whole lotta theological disagreements like this one. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:26 PM:

" Metric Time: Have you ever been divorced? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:26 PM:

" The single sin that Christ spent the most time condemning is divorce. Why is it that the evangelical bigots who claim to be Christians have the highest divorce rate of any faith group in the US? One wonders whether all this hate and bigotry concerning the issue of homosexuality is not just a smokescreen to draw attention away from their own unrepentant sins. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:23 PM:

" The simple fact is that Jesus Christ never said anything about homosexuality.That fact is made all the more significant by the fact that Christ spent much of his life discussing the subject of sin.The Savior spoke volumes on grevious sins such as divorce, greed and avarice and yet the single issue that evangelical (so called) Christians focus on like a laser is homosexuality.The truth is that these people are not followers of Christ but rather disciples of their own hate and bigotry. "

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Metric Time System wrote on Dec 14, 2007 9:34 AM:

" Leonard, your sophomoric claim that anyone opposed to the sin of homosexuality is a closet homosexual, is the lowest level of senseless reasoning. I'm outraged as anyone about people claiming to be Christians, yet are leading a double life. I hope they're all exposed as frauds to cleanse God's church. God's truth is still the truth regardless of man's failings. "

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Metric Time System wrote on Dec 14, 2007 9:23 AM:

" The homosexual lifestyle is at the forefront with Christians because that's the sin that some churches are condoning and even celebrating. What's next? What clear teaching of God will next come under attack? The small book of Titus is a great read and a reminder to Christians to be exercise discernment. "

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12x wrote on Dec 14, 2007 9:17 AM:

" Episcopalian: it's unfortunate you're stuck in the middle but there is hope and a solution; find a church that preaches and teaches the word of God. Don't let tradition and denominational loyalty trump your responsibility to God. Your denomination has strayed from God and therefore has abandoned you. As painful as it might be, God-centered choices will be blessed and eventually bear good fruit. I'm praying for you everyone affected by this apostasy. "

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Authority? wrote on Dec 14, 2007 9:03 AM:

" Folks, this is an opinion piece only. It is no more important than tissue paper what he is saying. He offers no authority or expert facts in his writing. It is very shallow and only incites confusion by the uninformed readers. Stick to what you know, complaining about Supercenters. "

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Ivan Dixon to Real Facts wrote on Dec 14, 2007 6:31 AM:

" Good Point! In light of this new information, I would like to revise my demands. I now demand that marriage and copulation be limited ONLY to people who either want to procreate OR to people who love each other. I would also ban people named Adam and Steve from marrying or copulating with each other. To be on the safe side, I would also ban people named Esteban, Stephania, Stephanie, etc from marrying or copulating with people named Adam. "

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Tildy wrote on Dec 14, 2007 5:44 AM:

" Someone said that Jesus never mentioned gays and I didn't believe it because our Minister has always told us that Jesus hates gays but I looked it up an its true and I wonder why he didnt mention it because it is such a big sin and maybe he didnt think it was a sin if he didnt mention it or maybe he didnt think it was a big sin if he didnt mention it because he sure does talk about a lot of other really big sins. "

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All God's Children wrote on Dec 14, 2007 12:58 AM:

" We are all in this together and all God's Children. It is up to God to smite, obliterate, flood, or otherwise wipe the world clean of what he isn't pleased with. Man and his " Interpretation" of God's word is what gets everyone confused. Let he who is TOTALLY WITHOUT SIN to cast the First stone. Spirituality is Beautiful-- BUT I HAVE NO USE FOR RELIGION. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:53 PM:

" leonard, i see your "spots" haven't changed. whats with the bogus arguement about which political party has homosexuals in it or not? can't you stay on track subject wise? who cares who is "doing it". the question is, is it right biblically or not? so, now that YOU have publically claimed YOU are a "christian", why don't YOU tell us what the bible says about homosexuality? i can't wait for you to play the "i am a christian, but the bible is bogus" game. feel free to embarrass yourself, again "

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real facts wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:41 PM:

" episcopalian; i do feel the pain you are going thru (to an extent), because these things rip fellowships apart. but in this case, thats a good thing. the choices of truth comes with a cost, so these issues divide "people", because some care about truth and what God says, and some care more about their personal opinion about the subject matter. it's divisionary and hurtful. the person who picks God in this matter will ALWAYS have peace and strength. for the rest, they cannot be guided OR comforted by God. choose God in this and all matters, over "man". always "

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real facts wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:34 PM:

" episcopalian; if you are "stuck in the middle", that would be your own fault. "if" you are a Christian, you have one choice to make, and that choice should be esay for you ...you obey God, not man. if you are not a Christian, then being stuck in the middle is appropo, because you place yourself in the middle, by thinking man can somehow usurp Gods directives. when "man" ditches Gods directive, ditch that man. you will stand before God. you will never stand before men, or a "denomination" "

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Carol wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:05 PM:

" Mr. Roberts--I remember when others with a "humble opinion" like yours used the Bible to attack interracial couples. A little farther back, those "humble opinions" were using the Bible to champion slavery and deny women the right to vote. The Bible is a reflection of an ancient culture that was violent and ignorant. Using this document to dictate modern lives is cruel. Modern Christians look to a loving deity for inspiration, not the cruelty of an ancient culture. "

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Undercover reporter wrote on Dec 13, 2007 7:23 PM:

" Leonard; Homosexuals are equal in both parties. The difference is that the mainstream media rarely reports the party affiliation if the person is a Democrat, but gleefully gushes it constantly if it is a Republican. Do your NexisLexis search before writing such an erroneous statement. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 13, 2007 5:45 PM:

" RF: Would you care to unburden yourself and tell us the "Real Facts"? "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 13, 2007 5:44 PM:

" You can see the same thing happening here. I will bet dollars against donuts that those posters who are most vocal in their attacks on homosexuals on these blogs are secretly harboring homosexual fantasies. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 13, 2007 5:41 PM:

" I suspect that there are equal numbers of homosexuals in both Parties. The Dems have the advantage that there's are out in the open while, among the Repugs, the gay's are trying to disguise themselves as homophobes. "

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Leonard wrote on Dec 13, 2007 5:40 PM:

" Someone asked why conservatives are so obsessed with homosexuality. The answer lies in the fact that the worst homophobes are usually repressed homosexuals. You see this sort of thing all the time in the Republican Party. Just look at Senator Footsie (Craig, Congressman Foley and the "Reverend" Haggard. Each of these leading conservatives worked themselves into a frenzy attacking homosexuals while, behind closed doors, they were secretly consumed by lust for other men. "

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Episcopalian wrote on Dec 13, 2007 4:40 PM:

" Do any of you actually belong to an Episcopal church? Do any of you really know the pain we are all going through becuase of greed and hate (which is what this all boils down to)? While Mr. Roberts is entitled to his opinion under the 1st amendment, as are all of you, what good does any of this do for us stuck in the middle? "

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Alana Hathaway wrote on Dec 13, 2007 3:38 PM:

" The bible tells us in his word right from wrong If they think it is so important .Then why are they they Gods blessing on there relationship no mater who they get to married them they will not be living the life that is not be living. When he Man then he new man needed so and he made Woman. never once has He never said man and man or woman with woman.The church has If we are in fact Christians then we nee to make a stand for our rights. "

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real facts wrote on Dec 13, 2007 1:59 PM:

" ivan; if we are talking about the definition of sex per biblical standards (which we are), sex was intended for more than just "procreation". because although procreation is the primary intention, the bible is explicit about "lovemaking". which in turns means "old people" can get it on all they want (ha ha). sex was only designed to be between a man and a woman. adam and eve. not adam and steve "

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Robert Barrington wrote on Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM:

" Dear Stradlater. There isn't a line of demarcation between homosexuality and pedophilia, it is simply a blurred gray area. PS: Why do we have to worship the agenda of the homosexual lobby ? Dont ask, dont tell, and leave me alone. "

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Ivan Dixon wrote on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM:

" If sex is only for procreation I demand that a law be immediately enacted to prevent infertile couples from copulating. We must end these perverse unions today before the nations moral character is damaged further. The same goes for couples over 45. "

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Stradlater wrote on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM:

" As a "baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic," this guy sure can't tell the difference between the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church. Or the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia, for that matter. LNS, quit printing this garbled tripe and get some real columnists. "

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12x wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:31 AM:

" The line in the sand "somewhere" is knowable and clear, it is defined by the Bible. Regardless of denominations, if we believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, then the Bible is "the line in the sand". We need to know what the Bible says, not what we feel it says or what we'd like it say, to fit our personal comfort and convenience. Our lifestyle choices must conform to God's will, and not force God to conform His will to our lifestyle choices. That would be impossible. "

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Cogito wrote on Dec 13, 2007 8:09 AM:

" It's not mans place to set the rules of a church, its Gods church, And God has made it clear where He stands here with His word. If your a Christian, the Bible is clear that homosexuality is an abomination. If your an atheist, you believe in Darwins theory. According to Darwin, an organisms main drives are sustenance, shelter, and passing on your genetic material to the next generation. That makes homosexuals sexually retarded. Either way it goes against normality. "

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Why... wrote on Dec 13, 2007 7:49 AM:

" ...are Christians so obsessed with homosexuality? I've met Christians who will forgive murderers and thieves and make excuses for drug addicts and adulterers but want all gays to rot in Hell. It's very strange and kind of sad. Instead of fighting over people who can't help who/what they are maybe Christians can concentrate on the whole "helping the poor and down-trodden" thing. Seems like Someone came down to Earth and asked us all to do that... "

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