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Jim Self and his wife, Korina, talk about their feelings on the contents in a school history book being used to teach their son's seventh-grade history class. (Jennifer M. Howell/News-Sentinel)

Too much time on teachings of Islam?

Parents say seventh-grade textbook at Houston Elementary inappropriate

By Amanda Dyer
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 1:59 PM PST

Comments (314 comment(s))

The parents of children at Houston Elementary School plan to complain to the school board about concerns they have with a seventh-grade history textbook, which they feel pays an undue amount of attention to the teachings of Islam.

When Jim Self asked his son last week what he was learning in school, he was surprised to hear his 12-year-old boy say that he was learning about the Prophet Muhammad.

That night Jim Self and his wife, Korina, flipped through their son’s textbook, “History Alive!: The Medieval World and Beyond,” and found at least three chapters dedicated to the Islamic faith, including an entire chapter dedicated to the Prophet Muhammad.

Since then, the couple has started a campaign to remove the textbook from their child’s classroom. The book is used in classrooms throughout the district.

“I don’t think we would have an issue about it if (it wasn’t so) in-depth,” said Jim Self, who fought in Iraq as a Marine from 2003 to 2004.

Among the Selfs’ concerns about the textbook is its definition of the word “jihad,” which is described in the book as “the human struggle to overcome difficulties and do things that would be pleasing to God.”

Other concerns stem from a passage on page 86 of the textbook, which quotes the angel Gabriel’s words to the Prophet Muhammad.

The Selfs said the textbook mentioned Jesus only twice, and other major religions were only given a paragraph of explanation.

One of the Selfs’ biggest concerns, though, is that such detailed explanation of Islam is a violation of the separation of church and state.

“If he was in college and he was studying world religions, fine,” Jim Self said.

The Selfs, who are Christians, worry that their reaction to the textbook will cause people to label them as religious “wackos.”

“We’re just regular people,” Jim Self said.

The Selfs don’t have an issue with their son learning about other cultures, but said that each culture should be represented equally.

“They want to take the Ten Commandments off the steps of the Supreme Court, but you’re going to teach my 12-year-old son how to pray?” Jim Self asked.

In fact, the Selfs’ asked that their son not be named to avoid unwanted repercussions.

But that didn’t stop them from telling Houston Elementary’s administration that their son will not be participating in history class, a request with which the school has complied.

“I was very clear that my son will not be studying these next few chapters,” Korina Self said.

However, Anne Cecchetti, curriculum coordinator of instructional media services at Lodi Unified School District, had a different take on the textbook, which she said has been approved by the state board of education.

“We’re just explaining something. That’s education,” Cecchetti said. “When you start espousing a religion, that’s when you have a problem with the separation of church and state.”

Cecchetti was surprised that the Selfs had not been informed of Lodi Unified’s school board policy that allows any resident or employee to challenge a textbook if they feel the book is inappropriate. Forms for requests for formal reconsideration are on hand at each school site, according to board policy.

Korina and Jim Self have been encouraging other parents to look at the textbook and make their own conclusions. Korina Self said she would be collecting signatures of parents who disapproved of the textbook during the next few days.

She also said she would bring the matter to the attention of the school board during its next meeting on Nov. 6.

Parents in Arizona requested that the same textbook, which was being used on a trial basis, be pulled from classrooms in Scottsdale Unified School District because they felt the book contained Islamic propaganda, according to an article in the East Valley Tribune newspaper.

TCI, the book’s publisher, ended the trial period before the school district could act, saying that the book did not match with new state standards.

Natasha Martin, spokesperson for TCI, said the book does comply with California’s state standards and it was thoroughly reviewed by the state before being approved.

“It is common for parents in the state to raise concerns about the teaching of Islam because they do not know that it is required by the state standards, and they don’t understand that all major religions are taught as part of the sixthand seventhgrade world history courses,” Martin wrote in an e-mail.

Denice Shigematsu, principal at Houston Elementary, also said the book complies with a California state standard requiring students to learn about diverse religions.

Shigematsu said she has only received one complaint about the book this year. Shigematsu said she had received two separate complaints about textbooks in previous years, but the complaints were resolved once the parents met with the teacher and discussed how the curriculum was being taught.

However, that information isn’t comforting to parent Jordi Domenech, who said the text should cover all religions equally, or none at all.

That’s something, Domenech said, that should be taught at home.

Contact reporter Amanda Dyer at amandad@lodinews.com.

Reader Feedback

worshipper wrote on Nov 18, 2007 7:50 PM:

" Wow. I know this blog will die a slow death because there are so many that do not care. Perhaps an uprising of the silent majority will occur when the extremists are at our front door. Do not let history fade. The Jews denied God and turned their back on His law and paid for it heavily. We, a Judeo Christian nation have turned our backs on His law and we will pay for it heavily as well. My goodness, look at our me me me culture and ask yourself why the Islamists hate us. Think "

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msaodms wrote on Nov 16, 2007 5:58 AM:

" not like there is nothing about cristianity or jews allah and muhaamad are fake its not like he is gooing to convirt "

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Steve Baldwin wrote on Nov 12, 2007 4:29 PM:

" Just so everyone knows; Islamic propaganda is appearing in schools all over America and most people have no clue that the textbook publishers actually contract out Islamic "consultants" who hate America to write portions of our textbooks. I should know. I'm the former Chairman of the Education Committee in the Legislature and a former member of the Calif. Curriculum Commission, the agency responsible for creating a list of approved texts. The commission is full of people who hate Western Civilizations and the values we were founded upon. Welcome to the Jihad! "

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missymac wrote on Nov 12, 2007 12:20 PM:

" Were you at the board meeting? I was. This mother questioned how teaching religion is not a conflict of separating church and state but reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is. She asked the District to tie in learning how Muslims pray with specific historical events. She encouraged parents to be involved. Is it propaganda? How will we know if we aren't paying attention? Education promotes diplomacy. We need to teach advanced citizenship, too. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 11, 2007 10:45 AM:

" here's a challenge danny boy, prove just ONE TIME where i have ever lied. just once. you always trumpet that with no basis. it's the only thing you have to go to, because your position is that weak. anytime you have to lie about someones character, you have no position. you wanna make me go away? actually tell the truth and back up what you say (for the first time). i would probably die of a heart attack from the shock of witnessing it alone. pa-thetic "

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r80ant wrote on Nov 11, 2007 8:58 AM:

" I think the Pastors of Lodi are too busy trying to figure out the Trinity then deal with some blind sheep who miss Church services only to be found protesting the context of a textbook at a School Board Meeting. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 10, 2007 4:59 PM:

" to 12x and audi5000; i would like to refer you to an article written in the religion section at LNS entitled "Safe and non-threatening isn't Jesus' way" written by a pastor nolan. in it you will find both a reason as to why i do what i do, and more importantly, a resaon for the both of you to realize what God did for you, is worth the effort it takes to uphold that truth. as i stated, being "loving" is only the half of it. telling the truth is the other "

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The Myth of Neutrality wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:47 PM:

" Because education is not neutral, it should never have been entrusted to the State--and until 1840 in America was not! This was the period of great leaders in America--of truly genius thinkers, not "group thinkers". Let this Islam issue cause us to reexamine the foundations of education of our children. A truly free people does not have the State educate its children. Adolf Hitler said, "Give me control of the textbooks, and I will control all Germany." And he did. Do we really want to risk this tyranny of the State here in America? "

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The Myth of Neutrality wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:41 PM:

" The courageous Jim and Korina Self family is properly outraged over the emphasis and positive presentation given to Islam in the TCI textbook and is taking the school district to task over it. I hope that many concerned parents will contact them and help this effort. However, this issue brings to light the underlying problem: whose view of history will be taught? The State cannot solve this problem, but merely arbitrarily standardizes it, to the disgust of many. The fact is "history" is not neutral. Education is not neutral. "

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Where are the pastors? wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:28 PM:

" It has been nearly 2 weeks since this story about Islam indoctrination in the Lodi textbooks was written. And not a peep from the local pastors. 304 on-line comments posted, and not 1 pastor. They are A.W.O.L. Shame on them! "

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real facts wrote on Nov 9, 2007 1:32 PM:

" matthew 23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell"? Jesus' own words. as you can tell from this and many other accountings of his dealings with his creation, he wasn't always "cuddly and nice". everytime, and in every instance, he told the truth commensurate with the circumstances. it is my push to do the same. every wonder why i never threated people with the hell angle? i very rarely have ever mentioned that. don't need to, despite it's reality. thats Gods job description "

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real facts wrote on Nov 9, 2007 12:38 PM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 9 10:26 AM;sure looks that way, doesn't it? not true though. what i have is fortitude to make sure truth is told. it is not my job to bust people, but it is my job to make sure a righteous truth is upheld, when others are trashing it. whatever the results are, is up to HIM. "revenge" would play into it if i cared about what people think of me. i don't. maybe you aren't called to counter against attacks, i am. you do realize that God uses people to speak out against evil, don't you? "

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Dan wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:40 AM:

" From RF's post: "...prepared to do it time and again. there is nothing i can't handle. no river i can't swim." Nor is there any lie you are unwilling to tell. If you could, RF, when would you start rounding up the non-Christians and begin their torture? Beatings must surely be your method to make people love you (and, to a lesser extent, Jesus). "

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12x wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:35 AM:

" To Real Facts: Matthew 5:44 "

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Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:26 AM:

" RF, you seem to have a desire to get even. You need to release yourself from the instinct of revenge because God will right all wrongs in His own perfect judgement. Be humble. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:42 PM:

" (realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:03 PM: " Need any more? There's your watergun, realfacts. Looks more like Niagara Falls). it's ok, i've gone "over the falls" tons of times in my life. more than prepared to do it time and again. there is nothing i can't handle. no river i can't swim. afterall, i possess the ultimate life raft (or rather, HE possesses me) "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:36 PM:

" realfraud Nov 8 2:01 PM; you;( "Man, I thought Muslim women were oppressed. At least they can talk in their Mosques"). muslim women aren't even allowed IN the mosque. ever see a woman go in the lodi mosque? even around it? whats wrong with the biblical text you gave? there has to be some reason you think you somehow are giving me the what's what. so what's the beef? "

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rael facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:23 PM:

" realfraud Nov 8 2:00 PM; richard macintyre (i mean realfraud), you didn't do what i told you, when you come to play. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. where's the problem in your above post? i made the statement that God killed his enemies when they threatened his people. do a little homework on the midianites before you try and make God some murderous bully. thats mohammed creating islam. i thought the koran was revamped? gonna cover that up too? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:04 PM:

" Dan Nov 8 3:52 PM; the beauty of my life ..i don't have to lie. i make sure i tell the truth, and let the chips fall where they may. not surprised YOU would call me a liar, it's the ONLY weapon you have when dealing with me. since you NEVER intellectually debate or debunk it, thats your "go to" tactic. unfortunately (again) for you, it's another condemning historical fact. thats his title, not his name. like i said, lucky for you the message boards are gone. in it, it paints an accurate picture about who is the liar "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:56 PM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 8 1:03 PM; "smashmouth evangelism". ummm, never heard that before. know what your getting at though. not me. thought i read one of your posts somewhere that indicated YOU were a Christian? maybe i was wrong? given your last statement, we aren't playing for the same team (i guess). because if we where (even though you don't like my "boldness"), you wouldn't have said that. now that you did, maybe you can tell me where i went wrong (biblically). not your opinion, biblically. Jesus, paul and others told the truth. of what i said, what isn't true? "

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Chuck wrote on Nov 8, 2007 5:44 PM:

" Then you will admit that your "god" and "allah" are the same entity? "

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Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 3:52 PM:

" Still twisting, I see. Your slogan should be "Lying For Christ". If you ever tried to tell the truth I think your tongue would snap off. The tragedy is that you lie for your "god" and you actually think it's right and holy to do so, as long as it is in his name (whatever you are calling him today). "

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Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 3:36 PM:

" Hey Dan, you go by several different names yourself: Dan, Danny, Daniel possibly? An occupation can gain us a title, a hobby can, nickname can, etc. So what, you're still one person aren't you? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:08 PM:

" just to clarify the reading audience. dan the intellectual genious he likes to think he is, states that Jesus Christ never even lived, that it's all a myth. you heard me right, he thinks the life of Christ never happened. you have to be completely lost in hate to make that statement. no one can erase history. no one. can't even pretend that it will somehow disappear. it either was, or didn't. i love history. history soldifies the claims of Christ "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:04 PM:

" he IS the same, you just can't face it. it is the ONLY TIME in history, where a designation IS the "name". it literally means "God coming to earth to take upon himself the sins of mankind". it's his designation (title). it's not his name. i love how God differentiated himself from all mankind that way, by designating himself thousands of years before he became flesh. when you say the words Jesus Christ, you are calling him God. not by his "name". wanna try again? "

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realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:03 PM:

" Need any more? There's your watergun, realfacts. Looks more like Niagara Falls. "

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realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:01 PM:

" Here's some more wonderfully inspiring passages. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." Man, I thought Muslim women were oppressed. At least they can talk in their Mosques. "

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realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:00 PM:

" Imagine, all of your ranting and raving and the Quran remains unchanged since the time it was revealed. The same cannot be said about the forgery you extremists claim to be the inspired word of God, the Bible. Numbers 31:17-18, "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So awe inspiring indeed. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:45 PM:

" Al-Zawahiri was the leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group which he merged with Osama bin-Laden's al-Queda group to create the World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders.Today he is Osama bin Laden's second-in-command, serves as al Queda's ideological leader, and is the most likely to take over when bin Laden dies. Some, in fact, argue that bin Laden never would have been quite the terrorist leader without al-Zawahiri.Thats all folks!!!! "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:42 PM:

" It looks as though you folks would rather get in a whizzing match over Islam and Christianity which is right and who is wrong.Mabey your to blind or deff to see who the real bad guys are!!Have you heard of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri? You may have, and if you want to know more about the state of Islamic terrorism today, it is important to be familiar with his name. "

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Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:22 PM:

" What, exactly, do you imagine yourself to be protecting, Real Fakes? Either the myth stands or it doesn't. Your hysterical bleatings are not going to supply the missing truth. And, as I already knew, you will twist any statement - previously you said god and jesus were the same and his name was jesus. now you change it. Ho hum. "

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Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:03 PM:

" RF: So what church do you attend? I'd like to know if your style of smash-mouth evangelism is a widely held belief. But I'm warning you, if you invite me I might show up but I'm not getting into "The Octagon". "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:45 AM:

" Dan Nov 8 11:02 AM; i was laughing last night, knowing you were gonna high five yourself thinking you "had me". read my nov 7th 9:17pm blog "think you have me now"? the words Jesus Christ is his designation (title), it's not his name. Jesus means "the Lord our salvation". God has literally become (come in the flesh) our salvation. Christ means "annointed one" or "messiah". ever notice, how you always think you have me dan? it would be better for you, if you didn't play anymore. you only help me make my point. i was correct, one name "

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real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:24 AM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 8 7:58 AM; i don't attack, i defend. by telling the truth. big difference. read back over my blogs, they are inline with my claim that i defend. i defend against attacks on Christ and Christianity. don't care what people think about me, but attack Christ, and i will defend that. what you aren't used to, is Christians that actually stand up for whats right. so audi, it's ok for people to say whatever they want, but not ok for a Christian to tell the truth? maybe then, you could show me where i said something "untruthful" "

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Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:02 AM:

" So... I guess then his name isn't Jesus after all, Real Fakes? You made quite a pretense of that on the now-defunct forums. What happened? Did history change? Isn't Jesus god anymore? Or his IS god and his name wasn't Jesus? Or was it Isa? Or Issa? The truth is, RF, you don't have the slightest idea what you are such an expert on. "

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I disagree wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:32 AM:

" to 96325: Islam is not a way of life...it is a way of death. You people kill anyone even other people of your faith in the name of your death religion. Disagree with you and I deserve to die...Islam is hate hate hate. "

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i DISAGREE wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:29 AM:

" Has anyone every seen a Islamic protest against terrorist? NO...WHY? BECAUSE ISLAMIC PEOPLE HATE ANYONE WHO IS NOT ISLAMIC. THEY ARE ALL BAD MR. WAKE UP! ISLAM IS WRONG, INTOLERANT, RACES AND FULL OF HATE. "

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I disagree wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:24 AM:

" Wake up said not all Islam people are bad. "

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Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:58 AM:

" Real Facts: Does your church have a caged octagon in the sanctuary where you throw submission holds onto all those who don't subscribe to your personal slant of the Bible? You unlovingly attack people that don't agree with you, but do you pray for them? A hypocrite would do both! Or do you not pray for others? Not so Christian! It's one or the other, which one is it? "

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Lodian wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:47 AM:

" Is it not the job of the parents to teach their religion to their own children? "

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Religion wrote on Nov 8, 2007 6:37 AM:

" Religion was invented by man to make him feel better about his mortality. Children believe because of their culture (like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny). As we mature we learn it's a scam to make money and exert control over us: Billionaire televangelists with $24,000 gold plated toilets, mansions and exotic cars and planes. As humans age we are closer to death start fearing it more, so we throw our money at the churches to "save us" but that only gives them more power over us. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 10:01 PM:

" realfraud; you..."Richard's book restricts killing to idolworshippers". either you haven't read his book, or you are covering for it's violent historical content because you are a justifiable symphathizer (like richard). richards book commands the eventual killing of ALL infidels who refuse allah/islam. now that we have that straight, maybe you can explain (or justify) bombing innocent people in london? which ones in that crowd were "guilty" and deserved it? how did those bombs know that? smart bombs? "

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Facts about Islam TODAY wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:51 PM:

" To protect the actions of Mohammed, The Islamic state of Pakistan lowered the age of consent for women to age NINE last year! Aisha was nine when she married Mohammed. If they only had the TV show "Perverted Justice back then". LOL I see lots of Islamic pervs. Yasser Arafat was gay, and Palestinians hate the jews of Israel? Okay I guess being pedophilic homosexual must be better than being Jewish? "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:45 PM:

" Ayman al-Zawahiri-1998 The ruling is to Kill the Americans and their allies, civilians and military.It is an individual duty for every Muslim in any country to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque [in Jerusalem] and the holy mosque in Makka[in Saudi Arabia] from their grip and for their Armys to move out of the land of all Islam defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:17 PM:

" his name is yahweh. self designated, and self authenticated over the centuries via attributes only attributable to God. no other "god" in history has been able to self authenticate it's claim, whether "it" specifically named itself or not. none. plenty of people on sacramento street think their god. what? you were hoping that it was clay aiken? i can imagine your disappointment. it's a reocurring theme in your life. think you have me now? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:04 PM:

" realfraud Nov 7 12:42 PM: when you come to play, come with a fully loaded gun, not a squirt gun. had you read the full context of duet 20 (which people like you never do), you would have read that God NEVER hunts people for sport (unlike islam). read it. it contains the explanation of justifiable war against an agressive enemy. "make peace FIRST" , then (and only then) when they seek to kill you, bury them. self defense is defensible. killing for sport isn't. read all of it next time before you come to play "

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Chuck wrote on Nov 7, 2007 6:25 PM:

" Here are a few: YHWH Yahweh Jehovah Allah Xwedê god So, RF, please... no worries..looks like you are all on the same team!! "

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annoymous wrote on Nov 7, 2007 6:09 PM:

" Islam is great religion and should be taught throught the country and it is not wrong for people to learn it. It's not wrong for childern to learn about it extends their knowledge.Muslims respect all religions and all religions need to do that too. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 1:46 PM:

" your right, im intolerant. intolerant of people talking trash about Christ and Christianity, or when someone is symphathetic to extremeist views. then im all about it. you don't have to read this stuff you know? but when you take a swipe at me, im not one of those wimpy Christians that will sit there and take it. so if you don't want some, don't come looking for some. your only avoiding designating exactly who God is, because you realize if you do, you would become accountable to him. you are anyway, even when you don't think you are. one name "

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Dan wrote on Nov 7, 2007 12:57 PM:

" Ok, RF, why don't you just tell us all what your god's name is. Since you insist he has only one - and you cal him "God", I presume you will say, "God". If not, then you lied. If you say his name is "Jesus" that will also be a lie. The dull part of your trolling is, you are so busy making up new "facts" to dazzle yourself, you don't even realise your own contradictions. "

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realfraud wrote on Nov 7, 2007 12:42 PM:

" Deuteronomy 20:16 "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." Richard's book restricts killing to idolworshippers while your book commands killing everything that breathes. "

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Chuck wrote on Nov 7, 2007 11:07 AM:

" Obviously, real facts, you have the hatred, you are closed minded, and without tolerance, your god has gone by many names through the ages, please educate yourself, and run along.. We do not need you telling us that your invisible friend is better than our invisible friend... you understand.. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:36 PM:

" to Dan, well you can thank us then, because it's far more productive over the long haul, then to debate over whose a better singer ...clay aiken, or lance bass (if you catch my drift). as of now, that pretty much sums up the depth of your life "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:28 PM:

" richard, i know islam has taught you different, because they want to elevate mohammed to prophet status, but it isn't history. history trumps islam, in that history (the O.T.), it never even mentions mohammed, except how to spot a false prophet. Jesus' life on the other hand was foretold thousands of years before he came. that he would come as Lord and savior. you know, the same "history" muslims refer to when speaking of true prophets (abraham, etc). Jesus is coming back, because he isn't dead. because he raised HIMSELF from the dead. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:20 PM:

" (Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:35 PM: "What's with your faint hope that the FBI is still lurking about? I thought you threw your red, white and blue towel in for a more civil and humane approach to life's problems"). bad thing for you richard, i am excellant at reading between your lines. it would be better if you moved to pakistan, where your beliefs are more in line with the majority there. you hate america, and for that i do hope the FBI is watching you. you can't even disguise it anymore "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:14 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 6 12:25 PM: i have no problem debunking Bart Ehrman, or anyone else that lies about history. i know what you mean about taking things out of context, and the one verse here or there lame attacks as "proof". so given that, maybe you will be able to rectify "why" it was "changed"? and more importantly, the verses that instill infidel extinction, despite the "change", or without contextual excuses. what then richard? plus you can't hide how mohammed "founded" islam. thats history "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:05 PM:

" (Chuck wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:24 AM: " Pay attention Facts freak.. they are all the same one, it does not matter what clothes you out on it, or name it goes by.... all the same...ALL THE SAME.) sure they are. i bet when you walk thru a crowded mall, and someone calls out john, steve, billy or willy, you turn around to see whose calling YOUR name. come on chuck, even you know God wouldn't allow men to call him by thousands of different names. lose your hatred bias. he only has ONE name "

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96325 wrote on Nov 6, 2007 10:33 PM:

" why do people make Islam so misunderstanding? Islam is the fact to the world, not just a religion but a way of life "

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Akmed Akbar al Hakeem wrote on Nov 6, 2007 10:07 PM:

" Try this !!http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=418_1176494781 "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 6, 2007 3:59 PM:

" I think it's time to put this mess in the john an hit FLUSH...It's beyond Stupid!!!! it's miles off subject!!! "

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Dan wrote on Nov 6, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Oh, brother. First Real Fakes and Richard argued "My god can beat up YOUR god!" Now Richard is arguing his god is DEADER than RF's fake god. Alas, religion really does cause real insanity. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:35 PM:

" There goes your authenticy rating for your scripture. Mr. Ehrman has done you in. The fact Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon Him) died means he completed his honorable mission. The fact that Jesus (peace and blessings be upon Him) is coming back only means he left his honorable mission incomplete. You're praising Muhammad and disrespecting Jesus in that way. What's with your faint hope that the FBI is still lurking about? I thought you threw your red, white and blue towel in for a more civil and humane approach to life's problems. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:25 PM:

" realfacts; I do enjoy the way you single out one verse from the unchanged revelation, the Quran, ignoring the verses before and after it and turning a blind eye to the context of the verse(s). Do you do that to the changed Bible? Bart Ehrman's book titled "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" reveals all that your trying so desperately to conceal. How about an excerpt form Mr. Ehrman's book? Nah, we'd better not. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:41 AM:

" disclaimer; despite my getting downtown with the likes of richard, i DO NOT hate muslims. i don't care who a person is, or what their into, as long as they act human, im good. i have many friends and aquaintances in all walks of life, most of them are NOT Christians. there are alot of muslims in lodi that are peaceful, and i applaude that. what i do hate is evil, and i will always speak up about that. therein lies the difference. "

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Chuck wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:24 AM:

" Pay attention Facts freak.. they are all the same one, it does not matter what clothes you out on it, or name it goes by.... all the same...ALL THE SAME.. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 11:03 PM:

" they all are the same? every individual road, path and opinion leads to God? there is only one elvis. the rest are imposters. get this, and you'll live in "graceland". you don't, and you will be residing at heartbreak hotel. (or some kind of goofy analogy) "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:58 PM:

" Chuck wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:46 PM: (" Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same... "). chuck, i can tell that having commensense on these matters might not be your strong suit, but even you have to admit in your heart despite what anyone else in here claims, that there can be only one God that you will stand in front of on that day. one name, not "several". pick wisely chuck. get the wrong one, eternity is a long time to be "all inclusive". "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:50 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 3:09 PM; since when did the jewish scriptures lose it's authenticity as Gods word, to be replaced by the koran? come on richard. islam was only founded after mohammed lusted for power, trying to give "face" to a pagan moon God without designation. there is no "allah". he is a false God, represented by a man whose history was anything but "righteous". Jesus on the other hand (historically) lived up to his "billing". including raising HIMSELF from the dead AFTER he claimed to be God. games not over yet, until Jesus returns. mohammeds dead "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:41 PM:

" Allah says Nov 5 3:07 PM; first you said richard was your brother in "faith". that would be true. you BOTH share the same ideals. like the one you truthfully displayed in your next post at 3:11pm, (" Swords are obsolete and Allah praises the day explosives were invented"). religion of peace huh? religion of lies more like it (according to you two). at least you are more honest than richard about true islam. now i can only hope the FBI is reading this, and knows your computer IP number. go crawl back under your rock "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:35 PM:

" richard; this is but one. got alot more. what say you in rectifying that islam is "peaceful" both in it's foundation, and it's gathering steam current world application by "some"?... ("Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Surah 9:5.). "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:30 PM:

" richard nov5th 2:48pm con't---> and although you are attempting to sweep what your prophet did, to gain his own designation under the rug, you still can't rectify a "peaceful islam" with the many koranic verses that call for the destruction of infidels. that alone would be enough of an indictment against islam. muhammeds violent foundation, the multiple call for violence koranic verses tell the real story. your either lying about it, or your ignorant of it. which is it? shall i type the violent koranic "scriptures" for you? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:24 PM:

" richard nov5th 2:48pm; now i know your lying about islam's history. it's what muslims do these days in order to slide their beliefs under the front door. purposefully omit (lie) about it's history, so as to make it appear "peaceful". i know you know different. history begs to differ on your account of islam. it's an historical fact that you have to rectify in here, that muhammed gained his prophet status after killing people. CONT---------> "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:10 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 2:31 PM: i would bet my entire life that accusation is true. know how i can? HISTORY. you and i can never escape history. one can only defend what actually happened in history, and you richard are on the losing end of that equation. you can't escape the historical fact that muhammed founded islam only after he used violence to do so. killed people that didn't accept islam. did he or did he not. remember, you can't circumvent history, you can only lie about it to cover it up. did it happen? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:03 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 1:58 PM: to be honest, i am not well acquianted with what actually did happen in your history lesson, but let's say your accurate (for once). when ANY Christians killed ANYBODY in the name of Christ (except for self defense purposes), i completely condemn that. unlike muslims, no where has God directed his people to kill someone else because they didn't believe in him. it was either self defense, or a pre-emptive strike directed by God on those who displayed intent to destroy. islam is 180 degree's opposite "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:55 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 1:55 PM: come on richard, i know you can debate an issue better than that. so islam was "peaceful" for a time here and there in history. what legitimacy is there in that? you COMPLETELY skipped over islam's foundational history at the hands of your murderous "prophet". that and the korans internal call for the eventual genocide of all infidels. answer that charge richard. there are some peaceful muslims in lodi, for now. and you never condemn muslim violence. try truth for once, instead of weak legitimacy spin "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:42 PM:

" 12x cont---> opposition to abortion and other issues in direct opposition to Gods standards come to mind. there are times when a believer has to take a stand, and not let sin go unabated, so that people will realize there actually ARE standards. thats my push. if you knew me in my personal life, you would know i am not a head hunter. not my thing. for some reason, the door is wide open for this at LNS. i am being "obedient". a believer should be willing to tell the whole truth. i do "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:37 PM:

" 12x Nov 5 8:19 AM: you are right (mostly). what you are forgetting is that it is the duty of the believer (at times) to defend against purposefull evil. leonards tripe falls within that category, because if allowed to dispense his bent version of Christianity unabated, others tend to believe that they can too. believers are allowing too much of this, without a counter voice. biblical history shows what happens when cultural sin is left unchecked. cont-------> "

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Hamad Abib wrote on Nov 5, 2007 8:29 PM:

" District personnel are weasels and will grovel to islam while stabbing all other religions in the back. They are bought and paid for by islam radicals and CAIR....tho they dont know it. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 6:35 PM:

" This little number will fit a few folks on this post. ye know who ye are... --Five frogs are sitting on a log. Four decide to jump off. How many are left? Answer: five. Why? Because there's a difference between deciding & doing. "

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NoMorePCTripe wrote on Nov 5, 2007 5:46 PM:

" "Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same..." HA HA that's what they want you think. I encourage independent study and though on the matter. (Oh and if Allah is capitalized, so should the 'G' in God.) "

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Chuck wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:46 PM:

" Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:06 PM:

" Well top O the mornin to ya. all a long it was my bloody Irish kin that took out the twin towers,the Buses in England and the Trains in Spain and ran amok in Africa,South East Asia,and the Phillippines.Ya see what happens when we don't get our Irish Mist,A thousand pardons to the wee Muslims and have a pint on me "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:54 PM:

" Richard McIntyre and Allah says... ya-all must be blind and tone deff too. If and it's a big If Let the moderates of the Muslim world stand up and be counted,you know if you talk the talk the you have to walk the walk...I sure as hell wont hold my breath on this one.Allah says Lets hear some comment on the sleeper cells and the radical mosque in Dearborn mich... "

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Allah says wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:10 PM:

" Richard is right - Allah would never condone spreading the word by force of the sword. Swords are obsolete and Allah praises the day explosives were invented. visit www.thereligionofpeace.com and repeat after me, Allah akbar! "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:09 PM:

" Game over. I believe it's about time for you to enter the Mosque and fall in prostration to the Lord of Jesus, Allah the Most Glorious. Matthew 26:39 describes your god (Jesus) as falling on his face and praying to his God (Allah). The worship of God alone was Jesus' simple message. Quran 43:64, [Jesus said]: "Verily, Allah! He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path." Your surrendering is to God, not the Muslims. "

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Allah says wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:07 PM:

" Yes, my brother in faith Richard is correct. Visit www.thereligionofpeace.com to witness for yourself the love and compassion practiced by Muslims today. Remember, it's www.thereligionofpeace.com and Alah promises you an eye-opening experience. See the love and tolerance for yourself. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 2:48 PM:

" The legend that "Islam was spread by the sword" is an evil one, a myth that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims - the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks. During his reign, Manuel, while promising to reunite the Church, made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an attempt to drum up support. There is no doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian countries against the Turks and convince them to start a new crusade. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 2:31 PM:

" realfacts; You're echoing allegations hurled at Muslims by a Byzantine Emperor named Manuel II Palaeologus at the end of the 14th century during a religious debate with a Persian Msulim scholar. "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Why would he say such things? And, are they true? "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:58 PM:

" In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the Gentile Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith - and they were the forefathers of most of today's Palestinians. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:55 PM:

" realfacts; The treatment of other religions by Islam is judged by a simple test: How did Muslim rulers behave for over a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread Islam by the sword"? Well, they just didn't. For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Were the Greeks instructed to accept Islam or be put to death? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations were devout Christians who were never compelled to accept Islam while living under Ottoman rule. "

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preston stroud pt. 2 wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:24 PM:

" ...especially to the person who posted a comment under the name brian- if a large muslim organization payed of the state board to pass aprove of this book, then should those who cant comprehend the practical value of this book, people like you, pay right back to have the book removed? think about it, free of prejudices, and you might for once think of something that makes sense "

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preston stroud wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:23 PM:

" just a comment from the perspective of a schoolage person, maybe the reason that there is more focus on islam at this time is that we are fighting a war in a region of the world that is largely populated by muslims... why would we study just as much about catholics as muslims? also, there are obviously a lot of mualims in our area, so a better understanding of their religion could prevent your seemingly overly impressionable children from being prejudice like a majority of the comments that i just read... "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 11:07 AM:

" and in actuality, muslim extremeists ARE representing islam. study islam's history, and like i said, it's foundation is mayhem. study the koran, and you will find that it's latent with references multiple times about doing away (by killing) of the infidels. the moderates eschew (but not fully reject) the violent aspects of islam. though there are peaceful aspects of islam, and peaceful muslims, islam calls for the eventual destruction of ALL infidels. that is historically accurate about islam. read it's history and the koran for yourself "

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real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:52 AM:

" eek, actually your statement is incorrect. forget about Christianity's natural opposition to islam, the correct historical base of islam was founded by the sword. muhammed had a penchant for killing people that refused his self proclaimed "prophet" status. thats not religious bias. thats history. islam was founded via mayhem. radicals are going back to it's foundation. there are peaceful aspects of islam, and most muslims are peaceful. but the radical aspects of it's foundation are gathering steam. how many moderates do you ever hear denouncing extremeism? it's "history" is not peaceful "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:53 AM:

" I'm still wondering how TCI, the book's publisher, managed to confine all of the available information about Islam into 3 chapters. Quite an accompishment on the part of TCI. Bravo! All Jim Selfish and his "lovely" wife are doing is exposing the double standards and hypocritical policies that exist in America. Bringing the matter up to the school board will only further expose the backwardness that exists in society and in their hearts. "

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12x wrote on Nov 5, 2007 8:19 AM:

" RF: Do you feel you're accomplishing anything by "putting people in their place"? Alienating apologetics is not Godly apologetics. Christians must be ready to systematically defend their faith to others because of our true love and concern for their eternal destiny. The Holy Spirit works to open the eyes and hearts, as he wills. Allow him to do his work. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 7:19 AM:

" So I have a very big problem with that. I also have a problem with the fact that there Sleeper Cells active in this country and they know how to work our system.Some time in the near future we could be like Israel,you never know if the restaurant,bar or movie theater is going to blow up while your in it.Think that wont happen,guess again!!Knowing about Islam wont help... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 6:58 AM:

" Major lack of Commonsense!!! why do you tend to jump on the Christian faith??? 75% Of Americans belive in GOD!Frankly I don't give a rats behind what you think of me,,,I am an American first and formost I see a faction who's aim is to destroy our way of life and if the moderates of their religon would step up and stop it I would not have a problem with them But they wont!!! "

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eek wrote on Nov 4, 2007 11:02 AM:

" First, radicals who have "hi-jacked Isalm" is correct. Terrorists are trying to manipulate Islam to justify their hate. But their actions do not represent Islam. Second, people seem to have very strong opinions about this religion. All the more reason to learn more about it in order to continue to have knowledgeable debates. Understanding others increases wisdom and power. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 4, 2007 10:34 AM:

" commonsense, i should have asked you, but nearly forgot. since it would appear that your an expert in knowing what constitutes "Christian faith", where have i gone awry? i am looking forward to you letting me know how the Christian faith really should work, and most of all, where YOU get your standards to be able to speak with such authority on the subject. you made the comment. now you can back that comment up. certainly there can be only ONE standard for this subject matter. not varied "opinions". "

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real facts wrote on Nov 4, 2007 10:27 AM:

" commonsense, i know what you mean. most people that don't even like religion, can take a smattering of the "touchy-feely" Jesus once in awhile. the one that emits nothing but positive thoughts and love. but thats only the half of who Christ really is. God has standards don't you know? just as God would. people seem to think that God never demands obedience to those standards, preferring instead, to make up their own rules. God makes the rules. i can't help it when people have a problem with those standards. it's always an authority issue "

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WY wrote on Nov 3, 2007 10:46 PM:

" yorkie... yep! you are so right. And they hide behind their BS-line about their peacefulness. "

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Commonsense wrote on Nov 3, 2007 6:37 PM:

" John Brown and Real Facts.....I would say the majority of those posting on this site consider themselves to be Christians, but by no stretch do you two represent Christian faith. If anything, I would think most people abhor what you stand for. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 3, 2007 4:40 PM:

" Most people who are foaming at the mouth about the Qu'ran wouldn't know one if they saw it...The people we are dealing with use it as a tool not a a religous book!!!their mind set is somewhere between 30BC-300AD.I have said it before and now again,if the moderates woulds stand up against the terrorist they could stop the whole mess. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 3, 2007 4:31 PM:

" Does the US actions in the Iraq war represent Christiantity? A resounding "NO".It has nothing to do with religon. It was a line in the sand to the radicals who have hi-jacked Isalm and have every intention to wreck havioc on the United States again...The United States has gone way out of it's way to avoid collateral damage..If we had wanted to in 2 to 3 days the place wouid have been flatened...100%. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 3, 2007 4:05 PM:

" 12x, your post on Nov 2, 2007 1:53 PM was good, but only half true. you made it sound like Jesus never put somebody in their place? the bible begs to differ in that on every occasion, when anybody acted like leonard does, Jesus put them in their place. there is a huge difference when dealing with people who are ignorant of Gods ways, or have a repentant heart. leonard talks trash about Christianity on purpose. consistently. Jesus was dismissive of ignorance, but dealt harshly with purposeful evil. "

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yorkielassuk. wrote on Nov 3, 2007 11:41 AM:

" Religion? You mean a ideology a cult! A muslim moves to an unislamic country to revert the population to islam. The Qu'ran commands this otherwise they must leave. Muslims must not stay in unislamic countries. The minds of children are easily corrupted, Muslim are looking long term get the kids you have the country. The guy saying Hamas are in Mexico. The muslim brotherhood=hamas=hezbollah. You already have them in America! Learn from Europe, don't be fooled by AL-TAQQYI................ Read then read somemore! We have the excuse. we really were taken unawares. ISLAM = NAZISM. "

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eek wrote on Nov 3, 2007 10:41 AM:

" John Brown: you are missing my entire point. Does the US actions in the Iraq war represent Christiantity? "

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historian wrote on Nov 3, 2007 10:00 AM:

" Woops!! I mean "right on" "To Commonsense." "

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historian wrote on Nov 3, 2007 9:58 AM:

" Right on, "Commonsense!!!!!!" "

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face the truth wrote on Nov 3, 2007 9:54 AM:

" everyone knows the world would be a much more peaceful place without muslims. No one has the guts to just come out and say it but deep down we all know its true. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 3, 2007 9:01 AM:

" RE: john browns a joke,Hey,hey,hey an other crawls out from under the rocks..Sure there is bias but that's why "GOD" gave you a brain and the power to sort out the wheat form the chaff...But you have to be a thinking person to make it work...On the post you refer to I forgot one item,The New Media.Question do you have a clue as to what that might be,I have my doubts.. Have a nice day ;-(!!! "

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To Commonsense wrote on Nov 3, 2007 8:30 AM:

" What arrogance. It seems that all you secular progressives and globalists spout the same egotistical garbage. Always trying to make Christians sound like an army of uneducated. I am sorry but it is usually the S-Ps and globalists that are lacking in educational credentials. Most Christians are not getting College degrees in Lesbian studies, White Guilt, or Sex in Hollywood. "

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Dawes wrote on Nov 3, 2007 8:21 AM:

" Well, I was wondering who the new www.answer.org leader, in Lodi, was. I saw the 6-7 answer.org conspiracy wackos rallying at Hutchins and Kettleman. Now I know who it is. "

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GovAgent wrote on Nov 3, 2007 6:37 AM:

" I agree, it is the secular progressives who at the drop of a dime want to justify everything that happens to USA. Islam is a religion, so is Christianity, so if you are going to teach religion, teach it equally of all religions. SECULAR PROGRESSIVES want to destroy this country because they know not what they do. They blame America on everything that happens to it. We get attacked! it must be our fault! lets study the attackers and rationalize why we are a bad country! this is what it is comming to! "

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Metric Time System wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:04 PM:

" And what about Muslim men who refuse to let the women-property get gynecological checkups and therefore many of these women develop cancer at what time they are immediately divorced for being unclean and left to die a slow, lonely, and tormenting death. Teach the truth! "

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RE: john browns a joke wrote on Nov 2, 2007 6:46 PM:

" Reuters,AP,aL-Jazzera,CNN,NBC,CBS, ABC,FOX NEWS.New york Times, LA Times This is his place for his news then obviously you should know that they dont ever speak the truth what news station do you know has the truth and not bias. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 2, 2007 4:01 PM:

" Commonsense or lack there of, Every thing I have put up here is available on Reuters,AP,aL-Jazzera,CNN,NBC,CBS, ABC,FOX NEWS.New york Times, LA Times. So if you look beyond Lodi you might learn a thing of two...That is if you don't sit back and shake your head in disgust and learn nothing...One more little item what would you say to the notion that there are active Hamas and Hizbulla in Mexico right now... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:37 PM:

" How many folks were hung in Iran in the last month and when IMANUTJOB said when he was in New York last month they had no gays in Iran he really ment it.most are stoned to death or hung...Why do they want to kill Salman Rushdie again just because the Queen made him a Knight...I could beat this dog forever but you are in a state of deniale...The Saudi's even brag about how the handle crime... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM:

" ameer_r2,Who are you trying to kid??? If your eye's and ears work then you know what the radicals do, ooops I forgot Brain!!! All over south east Asia they have made in roads also in Africa they are al-Qaeda along with the Taliban now the last timeI checked they were part of Radical Islam.How about honor killings,the cutting off of limbs for minor crimes "

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12x wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:53 PM:

" To Leonard: P.S. I'm sorry RF has gotten you wound up because I've seen you make some well thought-out points in the past, although I usually don't agree. I'm all for presenting our points of view with love and respect for others, you know, how Jesus conducted himself. "

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12x wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:48 PM:

" Leonard, You may not believe, but I know you're smarter than to miss my point. And since when do you listen to "them". But if you do, where does that leave you? "

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real facts wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:23 PM:

" i don't make this stuff up leonard. (Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit). (Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them). (1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world). i could go on and on leonard. the bible equips a person to know who "is" over time. the only reason you eschew biblical authority, is because you know you don't align with it. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 2, 2007 1:07 PM:

" actually leonard, 12x might as well had been describing YOU. "no fruit" (only negative, contradictory, critical swipes at Christians, Christianity). "confesses Christ" (but refuses the Lordship of Jesus Christ). "claims are sometimes not factual" (see above). you claim to be a "Christian", but you refuse biblical authority. the same authority (both old and new testaments)that gives one the ability to detect "fruit". bad consistent unrepentant 180 degree's opposite of Gods word, thats an AIN'T "

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real facts wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:57 PM:

" leonard, you make that kind of statement (nov2 11:26am), it sure is apparent now that you have absolutely no idea who is / isn't. which also proves the accusation i leveled against you in the other blog, that you ain't either. mcveigh and you have a alot in common, in that you BOTH espouse the teachings of Christ only when it suits your bent thinking. Christians have regenerated hearts, that are obedient to the Lordship of Christs authority. mcveigh killed innocent people without conscince. "Christians" don't do that, and other "Christians" don't high 5 ppl who do "

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real facts wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:48 PM:

" Commonsense Nov 1 9:00 PM: maybe you can be a little more clear about your "garbage" comment. i realize by now, that your not exactly enamored with Christianity, given the amount of times you have commented in here, but at least be more specific. i would hope for you sense of humanity, that your distaste for something, doesn't ruin your ability to pick the truth in life. hopefully your not thinking we are being to harsh on islam. because then you would need to change your name signature. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 2, 2007 12:39 PM:

" to Richard McIntyre, what you wrote on Nov 1, 2007 6:51 PM: what, now you want to try and turn this into a theological debate on whether Jesus Christ really is God? is that your deflection tactic to excuse yourself out of the responsibility of the charges leveled against you of holding extremist views? get real. proving Christ claimed himself to be God is cake. getting richard mcintyre to finally cop to it that he's let his heart grow black with hatred influenced islam ....priceless "

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Leonard wrote on Nov 2, 2007 11:26 AM:

" 12x: They say that the last real Christian died on the cross and, having read your post, I guess they must be right. If anyone who sinned is not a Christian, their numbers must be very thin. McVeigh said that Jesus Christ was his personal savior and I see no more reason to doubt his claim than I do to doubt Osama's claim that he is a Muslim. "

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afgo wrote on Nov 2, 2007 10:59 AM:

" Commsense 11/01 9:00... excellent post. Thank you. "

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12x wrote on Nov 2, 2007 9:26 AM:

" McVeigh (et.al.) may have professed to be a Christian, and only God knows his heart, but in his life there was no fruit that would accompany a life surrendered to the Lordship of God. Claims are sometimes not factual. Sinful behavior by Christians or those claiming to be followers of Christ is not a representation of Christianity. "

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ameer_r2 wrote on Nov 2, 2007 6:46 AM:

" Is my 100 word comment still being reviewed after more than 3 days? There is so much disinformation and anti-Islam bashingin the media and on the Internet about Islam available that parents can give their kids to balance what they think is one-sided or preaching rather than teaching. Intelligent design material can be be given to balance the theory of evolution in the same way. "

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Ken Lee wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:49 PM:

" Really, does someone who hurt even a camel let alone slaughter all the male folk in the Jewish Quraish tribe deserve to be called a "prophet"....to think over a billion worship this "prophet"... why don't they teach of 1400 years of intolerance, plundering, murder, slavery of these "peaceful" people wherever they went (Europe, Persia, North Africa etc). Anyone wants to read of the genocide committed on Hindus in India over the course of a millennium? It'll make you fall on your knees and weep. "

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Rich Z wrote on Nov 1, 2007 9:05 PM:

" Let's face it, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE is the code-word for elimination of Christianity from society. "

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Commonsense wrote on Nov 1, 2007 9:00 PM:

" Disgusted is correct. The fanatic "Christian" bloggers on this post don't represent any God that I know. You people are like rabid dogs on the attack. I would say the majority of us sit back and shake our heads in disbelief at the garbage that you spew. "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:57 PM:

" whatever my govt (your words. not mine) has done that is against the laws of God and humanity, i make NO excuses for. america and it's leaders will certainly pay for ANY sins committed by either one. america is neither my identity or designation. my identity is that i am a human being. subsequently, my choices are HUMANE. yours are not richard. thats how it works. you IMMEDIATELY run to condemn inhumanity, in order for truth to float to the surface. the whole of islam could take a page from my playbook. condemn violence, or further it "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:51 PM:

" don't believe me about richard mcintyre? fine, read it for yourself. google "richard mcintyre muslim" and see what you come up with and make up your own mind. im all for people "turning their life around", even if that isn't Christianity. at least they can act like a decent human being in the meantime. but turning your life around, does NOT constitute making allowances for killing innocent people. thats going straight to the bottom rung of humanity. thats putting the car in reverse, and flooring it "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:44 PM:

" i don't care who you are, or what political side you lean to. if you think that radical islam doesn't exist, or aren't a threat, just read richard macs posts a little slower. ANYONE who can say that muslims didn't kill innocent people around the world, especially from 911 on, is one sick puppy. you ONLY get that way, because you espouse violence as a menas to an end, "religiously". richard doesn't condemn that violence, because he knows it's whats supposed to happen via islam exacting "revenge". the wording is just different "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:32 PM:

" richard, don't align me with the govt or the president of the country i HAPPEN to live in. i am a human being, that bases my values SOLELY on my understanding of who God is. it will never be "tainted" by where i live. drop me in iraq, my values are the same. it wil always be a humanitarian issue, and that is where your failing. you have sold your soul into believing you can look past something, and turn it into something "good". cont-----> "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:26 PM:

" (To Aya Elayan wrote on Nov 1, 2007 4:15 PM); let it be quick to be known, that timothy mcveigh was NOT a Christian. he masqueraded as one, via white supremacy belief values. these guys add portions of "Christianity" into their wacko belief system, in order to give it credibility in their own minds. the same EXACT mentality of radical islam. tim mcveigh WAS NOT a Christian. any actual Christian would immediately condemn what mcveigh did. i DON'T SEE muslims doing that. they say nothing, or make excuses for their bretherens behavior. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 6:54 PM:

" Dickey-mac, has a nice ring,yes? well I guess it'S time to call a spade a spade.Your just a plain ol troll stiring the pot and sitting back with a grin..If not I feel sorry for you...You say Muslims are unjustly accused,your some what right but the radicals which you never mention have put the fear of Alla in the rest...Un like the western world they arn't afraid to die infact in their cause the welcome it.Dickey a little FYI, I have a Muslim brother in law,kind of gives me a look inside... "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 1, 2007 6:51 PM:

" realfacts; Did you say that Jesus claimed to be God then raised himself from the dead? Is that before or after He said, "I do nothing of myself," or, "The Father is greater than I," or, "The Lord OUR God is one Lord"? Is that YOUR god saying, "OUR God"? Hmmm, seems Jesus already had a God before you decided to take Him as a god besides God. Sounds like "you'ved" breached the First Commandment. And, who could be greater than God? Definitely not Jesus who, according to His own confession, was completely powerless. Any more tokens left? "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 1, 2007 5:57 PM:

" The day you free yourself from all of this and the day you can prove to me that Muslims are truly behind what reports you choose to sink your teeth into is the day I will completely free myself from any "extreme" act committed by a so-called Muslim. Until then, it makes absolutely no sense to distance myself from what is always proven contrary or what is found out later on to be a scare tactic or outright fabrication to what is originally reported, that includes 9/11 and the "Lodi Terrorism Trial. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 1, 2007 5:53 PM:

" realfacts; "You'ved" (your version of you've) yet to free yourself from the iniquities of your mainly Christian government and mainly Christian Armed Forces. You know, the Ghost prisons, Abu Ghraib, torture chambers, unconstitutional laws, Guantanomo Bay, secret dungeons, unjust arrests, imprisonments and convictions, Iraq and Afghanistan. All of these are factual and not media propaganda or the like. cont... "

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A patient college student wrote on Nov 1, 2007 5:35 PM:

" If the text in question actually does include a section on Islam that is disproportionate to the other religions covered,is that necessarily a bad thing? A solid grasp of Islamic history and practices is painfully relevant to understanding the world we live in today. Based the conversations I've had both inside and outside of academia, it seems most American's understanding of Islam is coming from uneducated militants filtered through poorly informed and alarmist news coverage. Islam,like most other religions really is a religion of peace and compassion. This is much clearer when your sources are academics rather than ignorant brutes. "

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To Aya Elayan wrote on Nov 1, 2007 4:15 PM:

" You mention that Oklahoma City was perpitrated by a Christian ... but the INTENT of that Christian was different that the INTENT of muslims. THE OK City bomber was retaliating against the ATF and other federal agencies (for the Waco episode). Fanatic muslims are trying to destroy America. Those two INTENTIONS are like apples and carrots. "

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So-Called_Christians_are_Lost wrote on Nov 1, 2007 12:46 PM:

" "The real object of the [First] amendment was, not to countenance, much less to advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment, which should give to an hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government. It thus cut off the means of religious persecution, (the vice and pest of former ages,) and of the subversion of the rights of conscience in matters of religion, which had been trampled upon almost from the days of the Apostles to the present age." http://www.constitution.org/js/js_344.htm "

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So-Called_Christians_are_Lost wrote on Nov 1, 2007 12:43 PM:

" You hand your kids (because I didn't mine) to statist, atheistic educrats, who see no difference between religions, since there is no God any way (opiate of the masses, you know) and, in return, you get the loss of your First Amendment right to freedom of religion. But, for Christ's sake understand what our Founding Fathers meant by freedom of religion! "

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Disgusted wrote on Nov 1, 2007 12:04 PM:

" As always, I enjoy reading the Sentinel for a good dose of closed-mindedness. Three chapters on a religion that dramatically changed the course of the medieval period... god forbid they should actually spend time focusing on THAT. Lodi, as always you disgust me. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 11:09 AM:

" These are the reporters www.michaeltotten.com www.michaelyou-online.com www.longwarjournal.org They go where most wont, out in the mud and blood.They sugar nothing or fake anything if its bad they report it that way the same holds true for the good..Every thing I have said is true its' all your to see with aclick of you mouse,Keep an open mind you wont go wrong.. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 11:01 AM:

" First to Liberal Muslim, when you folks stand up to and shut down the radicals then you all wont be covered by the same blanket.You folks have the power to shut the madness down,as Nike says Just Do It...Next if you want the real news from Iraq and Afgahnistan then you need to check out these guys' the are embeded independent reporters who only want the truth Good ot Bad not ferry tails.. "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:35 AM:

" Its time to get over the this war is illegal.It was voted for by the full congress and senate and sanctioned by the UN,all the data and facts are there all you have to do is read...France, Russia and Germany didn't wan't it because the were to busy making money off of Sadam,buying oil and selling him weapons...We are in it up to our eyeballs you just don't walk away you finish the job... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:26 AM:

" We can not fire on someone unless they shoot at us first or they are carrying a weapon...These folks are very smart,they know to shoot from a crowd toss the weapon and blend in...These are vetern fighters not a bunch of stupid clowns,a lot come from Chechneia Somalia,the Philippines and Pakistan. They know American TV and know every thing that is said about this war... "

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John Brown wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:14 AM:

" eek I hate to rain on your parade but around 70% of the civilain deaths were caused by their own people...As of to-day 3845 American Soldiers have been killed in Iraq.Now get this clear we are fighting under what the combat soldiers calls insane rules of engagement...Which has lead to the deaths of over half of our KIA...We have gone far out of our way to keep civilian deaths as low as possiable. (continued) "

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Chas wrote on Nov 1, 2007 10:11 AM:

" I doubt the textbook in question discusses the more than 100 violent Koranic verses e.g., "Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him." (Sura 9:124). "When ye encounter the infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them, and of the rest make fast the fetters." (Sura 47:4). "

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real facts wrote on Nov 1, 2007 9:47 AM:

" i have to be clear during my scathing "review" of richard mac, that i KNOW there are peaceful muslims, who follow only the peaceful aspects of islam. so don't think i hate muslims, and paint them with a broad brush. peaceful or not, i believe they are theologically way off, but i don't hate them. if they act like human beings, i have no problem with them. you make statements inconsistent with humanity, your not "peaceful" "

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EyesWideOpen wrote on Nov 1, 2007 9:33 AM:

" Anti-Allah: religionofpeace.com is an Islamic propaganda website to oppose thereligionofpeace.com, which exposes the lie of peaceful Islam. Other websites to counter the whitewash in the textbooks: http://www.jihadspin.com/, http://www.answering-islam.org/index.html, http://www.militantislammonitor.org/docs?type=1, etc... "

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eek wrote on Nov 1, 2007 8:21 AM:

" Deborah: What is the current Iraqi civilian death count from US bombs right now? Does that represent Christianity? Does Bush? As a Christian my answer is no. "

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Nuts amongst us wrote on Nov 1, 2007 8:02 AM:

" Timothy McVeigh, the Irish Republican Army, the list goes on and on. Nuts have been amongst us since the beginning of time. We have plenty of them here, Ireland had/has them there, and we just have to continue to fight back. This Muslim extremist movement will one day end -- and another movement will rise. It's just the way the world (outside Lodi) works. "

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Liberal Muslims.... wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:56 AM:

" The only Muslim I know personally lives in Cairo and labels herself a "liberal Muslim." She dresses modestly -- like me -- and does not wear a head scarf when entering a Mosque (neither did I) but does remove her shoes (so did I) out of respect for those who kneel to pray. Muslims are like Baptists...some (such as those who protest obscenely at Military funerals)are pure nuts and MOST are reasonable, open-minded, law-abiding citizens like the rest of us. We must stop putting all Muslims under one (fearful) label! "

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Leonard wrote on Nov 1, 2007 7:25 AM:

" Dicky Mac: You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading these lies. I spit on you and your fellow conspiracy theory nuts. "

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Voice of Reason to Little Debby wrote on Nov 1, 2007 6:12 AM:

" Millions? Where? Thousands? Certainly. Tens of thousands? Probably. But millions? Your post seems to be yet another example of the urgent need to improve education in this country, especially in the areas of current events and math. "

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Christian wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:55 PM:

" We went through this same controversy last year in our town over TCI's History Alive 7th grade textbook. (See, www.historyalie.com and www.cftie.org). The fact is that there are actually 6 chapters of Islamic propoganda presented, with no opportunity for students to critically analyze what is being presented. This is brainwashing children. "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:35 PM:

" richard; john brown wrote, "One of the defining features of the "Islamic street" is the willingness to riot, burn, loot, rape, kill and issue death threats over the slightest insult and imaginary grievance". boy, would the reading audience love to see YOU rectify (or dispell) this one with islam. while your at it, how about your statement that NO ONE died in that pennsylvania field. throw that one in for good measure "

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Lodi Native wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:19 PM:

" By the way, Richard Mc, I’ve never seen a picture (f)actually showing the Enola Gay drooping the bomb on Hiroshima,. I’ve never seen a picture of mahammad (peace and many others to blame for my lies to Him). Did he even live? "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:13 PM:

" richard your-getting tired: self imploding is coming soon. your love of radical islam is now becoming apparent. this is where you have the chance to come clean (but never will) over the fact that you approve of muslim violence. in the discussion boards, i systematically proved that you are either a muslim extremist in your view, or at minimum a sympathizer to these views. either way, your in hot chili. maybe you will be the next one they catch in lodi. your 100 degree's opposite of "peaceful islam". youv'ed surpassed the koolaid jokes "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:03 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Oct 31 5:09 PM: thanks, your right. Jesus DID say that he excluded mohammed, by saying HE was the way, etc. your confusing intolerance with absoluteness. Jesus never made any concessions for believing in anyone BUT him. but he NEVER forced anyone to believe in him, unlike your mohammed fellow, who killed people on the spot when they didn't. the bible teaches that a believer MUST know why he believes, and that thru comparative studies as well. Christianity isn't insecure. islam is afraid of that. did Jesus murder anyone richard? "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:47 PM:

" Allah says wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:43 PM: it would be awefully refreshing to have a muslim come out and categorically condemn the killings of innocent people worldwide at the hands of muslims. what say you allah says? do you condemn suicide bombings and 911? or is your attempt at "peaceful islam" only an attempt at slipping the real islam under the front door of unsuspecting people? "peaceful islam" is peaceful. that is until you don't convert. then we will murder you. are you any different? "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:40 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Oct 31 11:41 AM: i dunno, napping? taking a break? to be honest, don't know a thing about your history lesson. but i do know this. islams base and origin was rooted and founded upon violence perpetrated by an ego-manical man, posing as a "prophet". you can defend aginst enemies, but you CAN'T kill people in the name of God just because they don't agree. there ARE peaceful muslims, then there is YOUR KIND. so maybe, you were describing a peaceful muslim place in history. that ain't the whole story "

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Mea Culpa wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:38 PM:

" to "Allah", so sorry, but at least you got the website mentioned twice! "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:32 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Oct 31 10:52 AM: ("whereas Jesus' life is, at best, obscure and, for the most part with what unauthentic and unreliable information is available, unknown"). is your position that weak that you would have to completely lie about history? you know the bible (specifically the O.T.) has been around hundreds of years before mohammed was a thought. you also know that the O.T. specifically told that Jesus Christ would come, THEN DID. i know you wish it weren't so, but lying about history won't make it go away. the O.T. never speaks of mohammed. clue 101 "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:32 PM:

" Sir you have lost any credibility you ever had when you spout that bile... Get over your Bush Hatered syndrome Clinton said it well the other night when he said how dare you,how dare you. We don't need a cruch facts are facts anything else is pure B/S you can take that to the bank...Belive me sir I have held back on this as the paper request but if you have a problem with this country the door is open don't let it hit you on the .. "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:21 PM:

" to richard mcintired on your oct29th 10:22pm post; even you are smart enough to realize it will always be "quality" over "quanity" as far as who God really is. that arguement was lame, even if it were true. so islam's good at propagandizing, there's no legitimacy tied to that. this is how you weigh it out. your self appointed "prophet" mohammed did nothing to prove he spoke on behalf of God. Jesus Christ raised HIMSELF from the dead after he claimed to be God. both statements above are historical facts. thats how you weigh things "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:09 PM:

" I smell a clone of Rosie O'Donnell a bloody a Truther!!!Lose change cowboy. Phineas Taylor Barnum was right when he said there was a fool born every minute and sir you are the king.Each of your Arguments have been distroyed by scientific fact and you do a very sorry disservice to Familys of those killed by the hand of Islam... "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 31, 2007 6:31 PM:

" Richard McIntyre, I can give you many, many places in the Koran where Muslims are instructed to kill the "non-believers." They are to tie them up and cut off their heads. Funny, that sounds a whole lot like what is happening out there right now. Those are not "radical" Muslims, they are Muslims who are actually following what the Koran teaches. Go ahead and show me where in the Bible I am told to kill you. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:35 PM:

" 9/11 is the main "crutch" for you people to lean on after all other allegations of atrocities supposedly committed by Muslims have been debunked. The burden of proof continues to lie with the accusers. Not one picture of a plane hitting the Pentagon. Slow motion photos of the planes that hit the Twin Towers prove they were not American Airliners. And, of course, the infamous Flight 93 that landed safely in Cleveland, Ohio, oh, I mean, reportedly crashlanded in Pennsylvania leaving a 10 foot by 15 foot hole in the ground. "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:30 PM:

" The "Islamic street" of the third world often erupts into (state sanctioned and state approved) anger, and it is often implied that we should take such anger seriously, as if it is based on reason, good faith and rational grievances. One of the defining features of the "Islamic street" is the willingness to riot, burn, loot, rape, kill and issue death threats over the slightest insult and imaginary grievance. How can one respect a culture that behaves like this? "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:27 PM:

" I see John Brolwn and others have fallen into the ignorant trap of singling out atrocities allegedly committed by Muslims all the while ignoring the countless number of atrocities (f)actually committed by the governments of the West in the name of their false god, democracy. Looks like the influence of a hijacked media at work. If you add them up, the Muslims will never be able to, nevermind surpass, even come close to matching what your government has done on a global scale. "

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Deborah wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:27 PM:

" I wonder if the school also teaches the slaughter of millions of innocent people around the world right now by Muslims! This curriculum was approved by Saudi Arabia! That's where most of the terrorists from 9-11 come from! And when is the last time you heard the term, "conservative Muslim?" Never! Because there is no such thing! It's either "moderate or extremist." Either way, they DO believe in the Quran and it is not a religion of peace! "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:11 PM:

" You only need your eye's and ear's to know what radical Islam is all about... Philippine Islands 3-14 year old girls were beheaded and why??because they were christian thats all...You had a cell in Lodi however messed up it was so what if they tried a Chechneia take over of say Vinewood school what would you think about the religon of peace and love then,I think you'd stop kissing their butt,right!! "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 5:09 PM:

" realfacts claims that his false religion begs that one considers other religions and beliefs. Jesus clearly said in John 14:6, ""I am the way and the truth and the life..." I'll go ahead and allow the Messiah to expose your erroneous claim. It was a brilliant attempt at diplomacy. Too bad Jesus taught zero tolerance for all other beliefs and religions. Game over realfacts. Insert quarter for game play. "

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Lodi Native wrote on Oct 31, 2007 3:50 PM:

" Hey LINDA, IF YOU ARE SO ANGRY about having to put up with us Christian's celbrating the birth of Jesus (peace and blessing be upon HIM - did I get that right?); why not strap some explosives on your kids and send them to school to blow-up everyone? This is what a real Muslim would do. I don't think you are a real Muslim. "

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NSN Lodian wrote on Oct 31, 2007 2:40 PM:

" If little Johnny came home and said "they are teaching us about Jesus" the school would have been immediately shut down and all the teachers fired... and Christians didn't bring down the Twin Towers.... "

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John Brolwn wrote on Oct 31, 2007 2:12 PM:

" It's a sad fact that Islam has been Hi-Jacked by folks who still live in 300 AD.And the radicals intimidate the other 900+million moderate Muslims... To be very blunt I'm very glad I won't be around 60 years from now...Ya-all had best wake up and smell what is comming...Jihad Watch is a good place to start...Read the Qur'an all you like it's not the way the radicals see it... "

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eek wrote on Oct 31, 2007 2:09 PM:

" I think it is important to acknowledge the distinction between teaching the history and culture of different world religions in schools versus preaching them. As world citizens it is important to be knowledgeable about what our neighbors may or may not believe in. Yet, I think it would be inappropriate for teachers to preach to our children and tell them what they should believe in. Teaching about the history of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. is very different than mandating specific religious prayer or rituals in the classroom. "

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John Brolwn wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:51 PM:

" Richard McIntyre and the rest of the folks poo-pooing the threat of Radical Islam.You are living in the land of OZ. Radicals are making big inroads in South east Asia,in Africa,Europe Sweden Norway,Denmark.And lets not forget a little crime against Children and their teachers in a place called chechneia where Islamic radicals killed 250 kids and their teachers...continued "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:20 PM:

" richard mcintired on 10:16 wrote; "and the future home of the Noble Muslims." well that pretty much says it all about how you can't wait for islam to take over the infidels in america, including the use of violence (which you have NEVER condemned). also your wack comment about the "will of God". which in your version of islam means "by violence if need be". whereas the Christian version of the will of God DOES NOT include violence. i can only hope that the FBI is still active in lodi "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:12 PM:

" Allah says wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:30 AM: of course you would, your'e a muslim. but what you should have said, but never will, is that islam FORBIDS it's followers to read / consider any other religion. this behavior is prolific in all cults. mind control. Christianity begs that one considers other religions / beliefs, because Christ knows how he will fair at the end of that. real faith should want to know what everyone else believes, you can defend it to anyone then. no cocoon for me "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:07 PM:

" Aya Elayan wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:24 AM: islam does not teach violence. at the risk of starting something in here, that is entirely not true. islam was based in violence, and still teaches violence toward infidels (eventually and when the need fits). now if your ignorant of that fact, excellant. i do applaud you for differentiating yourself from radical islam. i don't see muslims these days doing that, making sure totel the difference between radical and aspects peaceful of islam "

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real facts wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:59 PM:

" to mad dog at 11:04; that was a good one. dougnuts will be the death of me, but what a way to go "

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Allah says wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:43 PM:

" to the "Anti Allah". Yes, but you got the http address wrong, didn't you? You can be educated only if you will open your eyes and Allah cannot run your computer for you. The correct address for those who wish to see islam in its glory: www.thereligionofpeace.com "

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Happy Days wrote on Oct 31, 2007 12:14 PM:

" A little insecurity there, eh?! "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:41 AM:

" My question is: If Queen Isabella and Co. declared war against all non-Catholics, including Christians, how in the world was there Jews and Christians present in Spain when Muslims ruled Spain for over 700 years if Islam teaches what you foolish people erroneously claim? The fact is that the majority of the population in Spain before it's re-conquering were non-Muslims who lived in peace with the ruling Muslims. The "Americentric" attitude breeds ignorance and 3 Chapters doesn't do the teachings of Islam justice. Justice is an entire textbook exclusively covering Islam. "

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John Brolwn wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:13 AM:

" Lets get one thing straight Christians have had a less than pefect past but nothing on par with Islam...As for the present time who is running off the deep end??? "

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Anti-Allah wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:05 AM:

" To "Allah says", I'll call your taqyia on religionofpeace.com and raise you with the truth on jihadwatch.org, prophetofdoom.net,islamreview.com,islam-watch.org, islamundressed.com, news.faithfreedom.org,frontpagemag.com. And that's just for starters. "

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John Brolwn wrote on Oct 31, 2007 11:03 AM:

" More FYI for the Blind...From 7'th grade in English Schools anything about Winston Churchhill can no longer be taught because of his disparaging views on Islam...He had it right...58% of the so called moderate Muslims say they do not have a problem with suicide bombers, well I have a problem with that,a very big problem... "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:52 AM:

" Muslims can't help that they have so much information available about Islam than all other religions combined. It seems fit that textbooks would give Islam precedence over all others. The Prophet Muhammad's (peace and blessings be upon Him) life fills entire libraries, wall to wall, whereas Jesus' life is, at best, obscure and, for the most part with what unauthentic and unreliable information is available, unknown. No disrespect to Jesus, just another praiseworthy honor of His Brother in faith, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon Him). That could explain the radical differences in creed amongst Christians. "

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mouse22 wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:46 AM:

" Jeff says: "It would be fair to say that...the western world was founded on Judeo-Christian values...and the Middle east [was founded] on Islamic values." But it's not fair to say that at all. The western world was founded on the poly- and atheistic values of Greco-Roman culture, only later to have Christianity forced upon it. The Middle East was the birthplace of Judaism, Christianity AND Islam. The fact that you don't understand those relationships only underscores the importance of having this textbook. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:34 AM:

" When the Catholics re-conquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews, Muslims and non-Catholic Christians were presented with a cruel choice: to become Catholics, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousands of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Catholic countries, up to the Holocaust. "

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mouse22 wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:34 AM:

" 12x, what are you talking about? There's clearly no "historical fact" about Mohammed receiving 4 different and contradictory versions of the Koran, because the Koran was compiled from his revelations after his death. "

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Richard McIntyre wrote on Oct 31, 2007 10:16 AM:

" O'er the present land of the freemasons and the original home of the brave indians..." I propose an addition to "our" beloved national anthem; "and the future home of the Noble Muslims." Any takers? God forbid we teach our kids the very thing Jesus taught his disciples, which is submission to the Will of The One True God. OH GOD NO! STOP THE INSANITY! I just hope the information presented is true and not Orientalists (Western Thinkers) attempting to misinform people. I see the Rainbow Warrior, Dan, and 12x have tooken up where the Orientalists left off. "

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Alice wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:57 AM:

" Why isnt all of this time spent in teaching Buddhism? or other religions? We need to stop this catering to the Muslim faith, look around-see the destruction this culture has brought to our country, we have already lost the ability to pledge our flag and praise God in the classroom-what next? Burkas? "

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Concerned wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:48 AM:

" I am behind the self's I do not believe that to learn history of other cultures my children need to know how to pray or to be able to recite their prayers. When teaching my children history I also expect for it to be all of history, just not the positive side of different cultures. "

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EyesWideOpen wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:42 AM:

" The Islamification of America is well underway. What Islam can't conquer by force, it will do covertly. Muslims are using America's own system against itself to conquer from within. The lies, propaganda and whitewash promoted in the TCI textbook are appalling. I've read it. The kids are being LIED to about the true nature of Islam. CA educational standards mandate texts must be factual (no lies), yet this text is given kudos by the educrats? Our children are being manipulated as innocent pawns. We must reject Islamic propaganda for our country's future is at stake. Parents, wake up! "

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12x wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:27 AM:

" Islam should be taught in schools with much detail. Historical facts such as why did Mohammed receive 4 different versions of the Koran, each contradicting each other. Allah was known as a man-god in Mecca long before Islam started. Allah was one of 360 idols worshiped in Mecca before Islam. Islamic women continue to be treated brutally. Muslims routinely kill Christians for sharing their faith. Mohammed built his religion on robbery and murder. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Let's teach these facts in every classroom across America. "

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Dr. Harrison wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:21 AM:

" The school district employees are marching lockstep with the multicultural-tolerance-diversity mob. This section of the book is out of whack and a result of the State Board being blasted by CAIR and buckling under to muslims like a wet cardboard box. "

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Cogito wrote on Oct 31, 2007 9:07 AM:

" In response to "J",I found your blog most entertaining. You tell us to "go to other places, you'll see they are open to everything and everyone". You dont really believe that statement do you? I dare you to go to San Francisco wearing a shirt that says "Conservative Republican" with an American flag on it. You'll find out how tolerant people outside of Lodi really are. As for your statement "they don't waste time on silly issues, arguing on a stupid blog." I'll let that statement speak for itself. "

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Allah says wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:30 AM:

" Everyone should learn about islam. I urge all readers to visit www.thereligionofpeace.com where you will learn all you need to know. "

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Nonsense wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:28 AM:

" Has anybody ever read three chapters of a textbook and instantly become a "changed person?" Same goes with the movies that are being attacked for their "anti-something" messages. Any changed minds after seeing those? I think not! "

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Anytown, USA wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:20 AM:

" The world is getting smaller and smaller and the more our children learn about it, the easier they will be able to move about. We can be friends with people of all faiths. My life would be so SMALL had I not had the opportunity to meet people in foreign lands (including the Middle East) and I wish that I'd learned more about the world's religions before my travels began. What are we so afraid of? "

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Jeff wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:11 AM:

" The same could be said of Bhuddism and Asia Major, although i don't believe their religios beliefs are that ensconced in their histories or governmental or social structures; not in comparison to Asia Minor. "

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Jeff wrote on Oct 31, 2007 8:06 AM:

" I think it would be fair to say that virtually all of the western world was founded on Judeo-Christian values. Students from a young age learn the history of these worlds, and in turn become grounded in these values. The Middle east didn't evolve by way of Judeo-Christian values, rather on Islamic values. Wouldn't it make sense than to learn what those values are to understand their histories? "

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Aya Elayan wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:24 AM:

" "Say: He is Allah, The One, The Only! He begets not, nor is He begotten! And there is none comparable to Him." (Qur'an 112:1-5) Islam does not teach violence. What is happening in Iraq and elsewhere is not Islam. It's the people within it that calls themselves Muslims. Blame the people who does such acts not the religion. When the Oklahoma bombing happend the guy was a Christain, did ppl mention that or blame Christainity? NO. So plz stop blaming Islam for something which it's not. "

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to library guy wrote on Oct 31, 2007 7:19 AM:

" Try getting your nose out of a book once in awhile,,,its time to experience the real world "

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ameer_r2 wrote on Oct 31, 2007 4:11 AM:

" History books 60 years ago had very little about Islam. A balanced view is needed to counter the distortions made. 6-7 graders need to understand the faith practiced by their fellow students. Allah is the same God of the Old Testament. "Jihad" is not only a "Holy War",the stated purpose of the Crusades and now the crusade in Iraq, Struggle against the ego is greater jihad - a defensive war- the lesser jihad "War on Terror" has to start with not alienating Muslims as "the other" Peace. "

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Neighbor wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:08 AM:

" Just to prove a point this country is mostly made up of immigrants so why not learn about everyones backgrounds. "

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Neighbor wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:05 AM:

" However, the book does dedicated a vast amount of the unit to just the Islam faith. Thus, raising these questions. The CA state standards DO say that a child must learn about different cultures and religions. So the son should be learning about the prophet Mohammad just not in great detail so the issue of separation of church and state does not arise. The book is controversial and the book should be revised so all the religions are used to explain different cultures. No way should faith be brought up in a seventh grade classroom. "

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Neighbor wrote on Oct 31, 2007 1:03 AM:

" So I live in the neighborhood of all these people who are mentioned in the article. No, they are definitely not religious "wackos." In fact, my mother uses the fifth and sixth grade edition of this book in her own classroom and these books are great. I went to school when this book was first being used at Elkhorn School about five years ago as a trial. I learned about all the religions in the world not only the Islam faith. "

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I've read it too! wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:23 PM:

" 6 glowingly positive chapters on Islam; one on Christianity. This is de facto indoctrination--not education! Parents and churches should challenge the LUSD to balance this and bring in supplemental materials of an opposing viewpoint toward Islam to encourage critical thinking skills in these 7th grade students. Let's remember that Islam has been at war with Western Civilization for 13 centuries since its beginning. Textbooks should be striving to inculcate an appreciation and understanding of our institutions of freedom, so that the next generation will have the skills to maintain them. "

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Mad Dog wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:04 PM:

" I worship the great and almighty holy doughnut. There had better be a chapter or two on my religion included in that book or I will have to sue someone! "

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Atheist continued wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:35 PM:

" Some California school districts emphasize the contributions of Hinduism and Sikhism. In Yuba City, there are over 55,000 Sikh residents. The Yuba City Unified School District would think very carefully before prosyletizing Islam in that school district! Many of these Sikh family members fought the Islamists in bloody battles. The Dominion of Pakistan was created to appease Islamic separatists in 1947, and only became a Federal republic in 1991. It is not "PC" to be a Muslim in Yuba City schools, and it is not PC to be a Sikh in Lodi schools. Ask any Sikh. "

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Atheist wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:27 PM:

" As an atheist I am offended by the LUSd attempts to inject multi-cultural group think into young minds. If you are going to discuss the "importance" of only 1300 years of Islamic religion why don't you spend much more textbook space on Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism which covers thousands of years? They are not part of the "politically correct" religions embraced by liberal administrators at the LUSD. "

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JD wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:13 PM:

" But is anyone else wondering why Richard McIntire hasn't chimed in yet? "

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JD wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:13 PM:

" Holy crap! I actually agree with RealFacts! (Well, mostly. I'm not sure I agree with RealFacts' apparent conclusion that a Christian school could provide a meaningful education to its students in this day and age without at least a brief study of Islamic history, theology, and culture). "

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i read itt wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:03 PM:

" ok "

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standfortruth wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:58 PM:

" A group of concerned citizens addressed this same issue last year in an El Dorado County school district. We bought the history textbooks and teachers manual to see what the children were being taught. Those chapters on Islam are total indoctrination. I should know as I helped write rebuttals to the chapters on our website (in El Dorado County), www.cftie.org. Also look at our sister site, historyalie.org. Read http://www.historytextbooks.org/islam.htm and see how they have reviewed all of the textbooks'chapters on Islam. "

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concerned parent wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:48 PM:

" My daughter was subjected to this book last year in 7th grade and I, too was offended and felt this subject was forced onto my daughter and it was confusing to her as she was brought up as a Christian and we do not share any of these beliefs. I say leave religion out of the schools. We never learned any of this when I went to school. I took Religion in college, as an elective. "

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916 wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:37 PM:

" I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE FEEL SO IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO ISLAM..I HAVE A RELIGION CLASS AND I LOVE ISLAM AND IT IS SO INTERESTING. I'M STILL READING TEXTBOOKS ABOUT ISLAM BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE MISUNDERSTOOD IT, BUT TO ME IT IS A WAY OF LIFE AND PEOPLE SHOULD REALIZE THAT. "

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AcampoMom wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:27 PM:

" My son is in the 7th grade at Houston. I am also of the Christian faith. It is good to learn about other cultures/ religions. My concern is when you apply 3 ch to one religion. When you do that,you need to do the same for all religions. I went though this textbook. It is appalling how we can view other religions in such a vast an in depth way. But Christianity is 'taboo'?? I am a very opened minded person. I do not fear the Islamic religion or any religion. "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:15 PM:

" libraryguy the role of Islam has been just like it is now by fire and the sword...There is no other religon in the world as intolerant as Islam... Disrespect Islam the first thing you hear is cut off their heads, have you forgotten the Danish Cartoon's and the riots around the world because of them or did you even know about them... "

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Lodi agenda wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:06 PM:

" This falls in line with the White Privilege agenda now pushed on the teachers by the top admins. This racist and Socialist propaganda is pushing the focal points of a program started by Peggy McIntosh called SEED or Seeking Educational and Equitable Diversity. Odie Douglas is a facilitator of this program. The DVD White Privilege is put out by World Trust Educational Services Inc. in Oakland, CA. Welcome to Socialist Lodi!! "

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DavidD wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:58 PM:

" All of the mixed opinions and heavy emotions in this blog illustrate exactly WHY we should be teaching about other religions and cultures in schoool. Just look at how offended some of the people here are about another religion being taught, or how ignorant many of these comments are. I hope our future generations are more tolerant. "

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TO educator wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:56 PM:

" The book is a politically correct text. The majority of the non-European chapters were put together by politically correct, left wingers, from left wing schools like Standford, UCLA, CSUS Chico, CSUS Sacramento, and Seattle University. These kids are hit with so much multicultural propaganda that they don't know their own civic duty as an American by the time they graduate. Look at the REAL agenda of you district admins. Replacing Americanism with Globalism. "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:52 PM:

" A little FYI for those that think we protest to much...Excluding the September 11 attacks, approximately 700 Americans have been killed and 1,600 wounded in terrorist attacks since 1970. This list also includes injured Americans since Oslo 1993.The london subway, Madrid train bombings there is a little taste of the religon of love and peace... "

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Charles wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:50 PM:

" Jim Self...I guess you could be admired for "standing up"...but you are coming from a stance of not seeing the big picture...this IS ignorance...don't be offended, more intelligent people than you have written the state standards...you have no option...except recall the school board... "

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To Burntout teacher wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:44 PM:

" Truth be told, Muhammad was a dictator who used the uneducated poor nomads to create an army, then go around and attack caravans, and anyone else who did not accept him as a prophet. The book also states that the Crusaders waged war against the muslims. More nonsense, the muslims had already been waging war on Africa, Europe, and Asia before there was a such thing as a Crusader. "

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To Burnt Out Teacher wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:43 PM:

" First of all WA is full of political correctness. Secondly, Christianity is the world's main religion and it states so in the TCI text in Chapter 9.8 page 94. Thirdly, only a little of the chapters are really teaching about the history of the Islam. Much of it is politically correct propaganda. "

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Helmut Shrempf wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:35 PM:

" JOIN US!!! Book Burning to be held at the Houston School parking lot!!! 8:00 PM, Halloween Night...TCI grade seven texts will be burned...throw in some sixth books (they teach what Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism are)...and oh yeah, toss in the grade eight texts too (US Constitution)... After the holocaust...oops, I mean burning, the Houston School History classrooms will be reconsecrated by the "Church of Ignoance"... "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:33 PM:

" Radical Islam makes up around one third of all Islam, thats 360 million radicals that routinely blow up women and children around the world in the name of Allah..And do you hear the so-called moderate Muslims condem this action,if you said no your 100% right. Radical Islam has 1 goal and thats the Western world under Islam and Sahria law.The radical leaders have said it time and again...You folks laugh this off you will live to regret it...By the way there are more radical Islamics than there are people America.. "

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John Brown wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:04 PM:

" To quote Ron White "you can't fix stupid" Please pull your heads out of that dark damp place,look at what is going on in Europe, the Muslims are making a bloody mess of it .Here now taxi drivers wont haul alcohol or dogs they want foot baths in airports,Schools and don't you dare draw cartoons about Mohamad...There is reportedly 27 active sleeper cells in America think about that one Amigo Continued "

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real facts wrote on Oct 30, 2007 7:52 PM:

" like someone else said, go over to the middle east and see how far you can get pushing your "rights" about being politically correct. a beheading. islam teaches intolerance to the point of death, demanding it's followers to not even consider another "religion". Christianity demands that you consider others, so that you will be able to tell if Christ is who he claimed to be, which is why i stated islam is not a threat to Christianity. most middle schoolers are unable to weigh out those issues at that age. keep it just "history" "

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real facts wrote on Oct 30, 2007 7:45 PM:

" the poster on 30th 3:45pm; that is but one of the many reasons why i said islam doesn't threaten Christianity. add up it's origin and history, and it's apparent it isn't "comparable". teach it as history in content, and there is no problem. teach it's principles in a secular class setting,and i have a major problem. it would come down to content, equal consideration issues, and the rediculousness we face in america over the politically correctness thats ruining our country. ----> "

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Abdul-Aziz wrote on Oct 30, 2007 7:27 PM:

" THE SELF'S ARE RIGHT!!! I will join them in their fight against ignorance and the California State Department of Education...Just got the sixth grade TCI book...it has 14 pages on Jesus Christ!!! I will not have my children exposed to Christianity!!! They shouldn't know ANY of it... "

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J wrote on Oct 30, 2007 6:46 PM:

" Self, I don't think you realize what's ignorant and intolerant. What makes you intolerant and ignorant is that you're not open to things. If you've ever taken a history class you would know that Islam does play a big part in world history. "

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Carol wrote on Oct 30, 2007 6:24 PM:

" This article is grossly misleading. The textbook concerned is one in a series. The previous volume, used in sixth grade, has chapters on Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and THREE CHAPTERS on Jesus and Christianity. It's very balanced, but because the curriculum is delivered in chronological order, the Islam unit does not appear until 7th grade. Parents get the incorrect impression that only Islam is covered--not so. "

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Thankful Julie wrote on Oct 30, 2007 6:19 PM:

" As a child I was taught about All religions, and now as an adult I have sincere friendships with those of the Islamic faith. I am so glad that I had some sort of knowlege and understanding of their faith and what makes them up as a person. What we both have in common is unwaivering faith. I feel sorry for the children of close minded adults. They dont have a chance to make a difference. "

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To Eek wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:56 PM:

" Here is some research for you. How many wives did Muhammad have? How old was his 4th wife Aisha when they got married? Hpw old when the marriage was affirmed? How old was Muhammad? Do your own research. "

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T & C wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:34 PM:

" Most christian schools are merely stepping stones to rear those children to prepare them for the adult cults each represents. There are several in Lodi alone. "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:33 PM:

" To Self Supporter: No, the book does not mention any of the bloody past or present of Islam. However; it does teach the bloody past of Christianity. It presents Islam as a peaceful religion whose prophet instructed them to treat Christians and Jews fairly. Look in the Koran online at verses Sura 5.51, Sura 9.5, and Sura 48.29 for examples of what the Koran really says about Christians. "

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WAKE UP AGAIN wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:17 PM:

" Hey, why do you think that I have a profit, if you read my comment, it was stop being predudice, learn about all cultures and religions.....and by the way I am Catholic thank you, but I accept any and all humans and their beliefs. This is America silly remember the melting pot. "

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Leonard wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:11 PM:

" Confused: Just because there are people somewhere in the world that may be MORE ignorant and intolerant than you are doesn't mean that you aren't ignorant and intolerant. Or perhaps I should say that you are ignorant, intolerant and confused? "

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Leonard wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:08 PM:

" Modesto Girl: How would you teach the history of the Moslem World without mentioning Islam? "

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Go Flames wrote on Oct 30, 2007 5:07 PM:

" "Cecchetti was surprised?" The principal at Millswood didn't tell me about the form when I objected to the book. My son's social studies teacher didn't mention the form. The district social studies coordinator didn't say anything about the form. LUSD approved a book authored by an extremist who teaches at Sac State and hoped no one found out about it. "

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afgo wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:41 PM:

" Libraryguy, great post. "

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hey davidd wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:40 PM:

" You can google yourself all you want.Read the book! "

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afgo wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:40 PM:

" I have to agree with eek here. It might be wise to read the text first. Knowledge is power. Our world has become so small. The more info we learn about other religions and cultures the more powerful, understanding and tolerant we will be. "

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Linda wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:37 PM:

" WHEN THE SCHOOLS DO THEIR CHRISTMAS PARTIES WE MUSLIMS HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT. YOU GUYS GET CHRISTMAS BREAKS TO CELABRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, AND YOUR KIDS DON'T GET MARKED AS BEING ABSENT. WHEN IT IS TIME FOR OUR EID IF WE WANT TO KEEP OUR KIDS HOME TO CELEBRATE IT COUNTS AGAINST THEM. I THINK IF WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR CHRISITAN WAYS THAN YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH READING A CHAPTER ABOUT ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!!! "

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libraryguy wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:15 PM:

" i think the "intolerant and ignorant" comments are coming from those that don't realize the role that Islam has played in world history - a role as important to vast areas of the world as Christianity, Buddhism, Judiasm, etc. Why not study all the world's major religions for a well-rounded education? "

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Self Supporter, Modesto, CA wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:06 PM:

" I believe that the Self's should stand strong, and should be proud of trying to make a difference in this country. It shows us that there are Americans out there that still believe they have the right to stand up for what they believe in. I'm proud of the Selfs! "

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Self Supporter, Modesto, CA wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:03 PM:

" How is it that it's okay to teach about all the "good" things about this religion, and yet, we are fighting a war where the bad part of this "religion" is doing what they can to ELIMINATE US?!?! I bet that part of their religion isn't in this history book. Can someone answer that for me? "

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Self Supporter, Modesto, CA wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:02 PM:

" I agree with the views of Mr. and Mrs. Self. I don't recall learning anything having to do with Islamic Religion while in school. I DO recall learning about World History not religions of the world, that is. I believe that if we are going to teach our children to learn these religions that maybe they should learn it while they are in College and are able to decide for themselves what their beliefs are. "

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Confused. wrote on Oct 30, 2007 4:02 PM:

" Do these textbooks tell our children that in these Islamic countries it is illegal to teach about Christianity and that you will be punished, even put to death for trying to publish a textbook like these if it contained this amount of information about Christianity. We Americans should stop calling each other intollerant and close minded. Go to a Moslem country to find out what is truly intollerant and close minded. "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 30, 2007 3:55 PM:

" As a Christian, this textbook has comments that I find offensive. Here's one for you: "Muhammad was a prophet, as was Abraham, Moses, and Jesus." I believe Jesus was the Son of God, not a prophet. Just try calling Muhammad something other than what Muslims believe him to be and then putting it in print in a textbook. That would never happen. "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 30, 2007 3:46 PM:

" "Chapters include the roman empire, church in medieval europe, west africa culture, imperial china, mayans and aztecs, japan, and more. Of the 35 lessons in the program only five mention islam or arabs or muslims." The difference between all those other chapters you've listed and the unit on Islam is that the other chapters teach only the history as one would expect in a history book. The Islam chapters teach the religion. Read the textbook!! "

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To Wake Up wrote on Oct 30, 2007 3:45 PM:

" I challenge YOU! To look up this information about your profit! How many wives did Mohammed have? How old was his fourth wife? I dare you to speak about this little secret. Aisha was betrothed at 7 and married at 9 to a 54 year old. What would happen if he tried that today? "

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Joe Silva, Sr. wrote on Oct 30, 2007 3:44 PM:

" Mr. Self I congratualte you for opening this much needed dialoge in WHITE, CHRISTIAN, LODI. And please keep in mind you will find much of lodi's fringe here. The true hatters blogging away with cowardly anonymity. "

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JIM SELF wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:47 PM:

" To those who disagree with my views, where is your tolerance? Why are your views right and mine are wrong? When you appose something I'm supposed to sit back and keep my mouth shut. If I don't I'm ignorant, intolerant and have my head in the sand. I'm a proud American and I am not affaid, nor am I intimidated by you and your intolerant,ignorant views. "

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J wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:36 PM:

" i find this amusing. if they were three chapters on Christians then these parents would be okay. Islam played a great deal during that time too, you kind of need to learn about it in order to understand somethings. I am so happy i do not live in Lodi, you people honestly don't understand how close minded you are. Go out to other places that aren't Lodi, you will see they are open to everything and everyone. They don't waste time on silly issues, arguing on a stupid blog. "

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Joe Silva, Sr. wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:35 PM:

" I think (real facts) has touched on something here. Houston School is not a Private Christian School. If I held issue with something like this I would move my kids to one of the many fine Christian Schools here in Lodi. I can assure you not much homage will be paid to Islam there. "

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DavidD wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:34 PM:

" Proponents of the seperation of church and state are not against the teaching of religion. They are against the teaching of religion when it comes to science and ethics, or the requirement of religion in social activities. Regardless of your religion, I would hope people would encourage children to learn about other religions and cultures and to make their own informed decisions. "

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DavidD wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:31 PM:

" A quick search on Google yielded the book's actual contents. Chapters include the roman empire, church in medieval europe, west africa culture, imperial china, mayans and aztecs, japan, and more. Of the 35 lessons in the program only five mention islam or arabs or muslims. For those curious: http://www.teachtci.com/products/secondary/mwh_program.aspx "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:24 PM:

" ....The time spent on Muhammad and Islam is not at all equal to the time spent on any other religion. Yes, I also read the 6th grade text where they are suppossed to address Christianity and it's still not equal. This book teaches more than history, it teaches the religion. Read it for yourself. "

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I've read it wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:24 PM:

" My child is a 7th grader at another local school and they use the same book. I read this textbook and was shocked at what was allowed to be taught about Islam. There are 5 chapters in Unit 2:The Rise of Islam. There are direct quotes from the Koran on pgs. 86 and 109. I could find nowhere in this textbook a direct quote from the Bible. Why? Because this country does not have a separation of church and state policy, it is more like separation of Christianity and state..... "

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eek wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:20 PM:

" I did some "hardcore" research and googled the book. Here's the website with its contents: http://www.teachtci.com/products/secondary/mwh_program.aspx It actually looks like an interesting read, and considering the state of the world, it may be a good resource for all American voters. Why don't we all read the text book first and then debate on whether its appropriate or not. "

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Confused. wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:13 PM:

" I am confused. For many years the liberals have been purging religion from the public schools and now they want this religious teaching in the schools? For many years the conservatives have been fighting to keep religion in the public schools but now they want it out? "

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eek wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:13 PM:

" Close to 1.5 billion people on this earth practice Islam. 30-40 countries have a Muslim majority, two of which the US is currently at war with, and several others which potentially the US could go to war with. That said, we shouldn't teach the future voters of America about the Islamic religion and culture? Seriously? "

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LUSD Not Final Standard wrote on Oct 30, 2007 2:10 PM:

" To Educator: oh, it's the District's standards. It doesn't make it right. The stink here is that we must be educated about what an ungodly world believes, i.e. Islam, evolution, etc.; and equal time given to Christianity, creation, etc. "

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Jeff wrote on Oct 30, 2007 1:16 PM:

" Duece, i agree we are a scrweed up country. some people think being asked to religious prayer and learning the history of a religion are the same thing. "

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Brian wrote on Oct 30, 2007 1:16 PM:

" If this is the case that this book touches on all religons, I'm quite comfortable with this. Why then all the fuss over separation of church and state? It seems to me all one has to do is alter the title of the book and it makes it ok to teach religious beliefs in public schools. I'm learning more by the day the double standards that exist in our public schools. It only serves to complicate the system all as a means of giving the lawyers something to do. "

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Jeff wrote on Oct 30, 2007 1:13 PM:

" S&W 500, FYI it is LUSD Board policy that the pledge of allegiance BE read everyday at school. And while an Elk Grove parent did take an arguemnt to the supreme court about the inclusion of "under god" in the pledge at school, it was thrown out. So you are entirely incorrect. again. "

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educator wrote on Oct 30, 2007 12:38 PM:

" Oh, and yes...we are allowed to use the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance at school. "

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educator wrote on Oct 30, 2007 12:37 PM:

" How can we be tolerant of others if we don't learn about them? This is NOT a separation of church and state issue because the textbooks and/or standards are not advocating one religion...the text is simply teaching about it. Maybe this particular grade level text does not devote a lot to other religions, because those beliefs are not a seventh grade standard. Look at the standards - there are religious teachings at several grade levels. "

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Leonard wrote on Oct 30, 2007 12:10 PM:

" One wonders what we SHOULD be teaching our kids about Islam. If we don't teach them anything won't there come a point (around the time they are sent off to fight in Iraq) where they wonder what this Islam thing is and why we are in the middle of a never ending war against it? "

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Mena wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:59 AM:

" Wow, I'm surprised people are so biased when it comes to LEARNING. The textbook is simply doing its job--teaching ABOUT a religion, not teaching the religion. Perhaps the parents should step back and realize that, maybe, their media-taught Islam is not correct. Words speak louder than anchors. "

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Sign Maker wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:58 AM:

" In reading the article, i don't feel the self's are trying to push christianity...all they are asking is that if you are going to teach in depth about one...you should give other religions the same opportunity! I feel that the self's are right for wanting the textbook to teach them equally...that doesn't make them extreme "wacko" christians...I agree with them...I am agnostic and feel that if people will push to have one taken out "Under GOD..." the teachings of another should not be allowed! "

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S & W 500 wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:57 AM:

" Our children cannot recite OUR "Pledge of Alligiance", yet they can learn about a religion that wants to eliminate all "INFIDELS"? B.S. These are children! If they were in a University, and paying for their education, I say let them study what they want. But they are kids, and should not be influenced by such a radical, untrustworthy religion. "

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The Short Bus is Leaving wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:51 AM:

" If any of these knuckle heads were paying ANY attention they would know that the book in question has SEVERAL chapters on Christianity. "

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apocalypsenow wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:44 AM:

" We can learn learn a lot about Islam, but no Christianity? Burn the book "

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Lora wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:39 AM:

" More small-mindedness in Lodi? IMAGINE!!! Big surprise, people. Ignorance spawns ignorance. "

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real facts wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:29 AM:

" houston school is not a private Christian school, so i do not have a problem with them teaching world history. islam is part of history, and it's "history" doesn't even come close to threatening my belief in Christ. that being said, it would be an issue if within the textbook, all other world religions weren't given equal time.i would definetly have a problem with that. i raised my children to know what others teach and believe, so they could know why Christ is who he claimed to be. just "filter" your kids "

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Deuce wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:20 AM:

" We cant pray in school or study christianity but we can study Islam??? What a joke!!! Are we in the middle east??? This country is so screwed up it's sad!!! "

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libraryguy wrote on Oct 30, 2007 11:07 AM:

" If this textbook had as much info on Christianity as it does Islam, would the Self's complain? I think not. I don't see this as proselytizing Islam down the child's throat. Every time I've been proselytized its always been by Christians, not Buddhists, Jews, or Muslims. "

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WAKE UP AGAIN wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:55 AM:

" GROW UP PEOPLE, AMERICA IS A MELTING POT AND THE MORE WE LEARN ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS/CULTURES THE MORE POWERFUL WE CAN BE IN UNDERSTANDING OTHERS. LEARN PEOPLE LEARN YOUR DEPRIVING THE KIDS OF KNOWLEDGE, ARE YOU AFFRAID THEY'LL CONVERT? STOP BEING PREDUDICE. ISN'T CHRISTIANITY SUPPORTERS OF LOVE THY FELLOW MAN? NOW YOUR PUTTING A RESTRICTION ON THAT PHRASE BECAUSE YOU ARE ADDING TO THESE KIDS,"ONLY IF THY FELLOW MAN IS OF THE SAME CULTURE" WRONG THINKING. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, THE KIDS ARE OUR FUTURE, LET THEM LEARN AAALLL THEY CAN ABOUT EVERY MAN NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR CULTURE. "

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hey guys wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:54 AM:

" Jeff,,you,,"Burntout and Joe meet at Leonards,,,I'm sure you'll save the world from the U.S A. "

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WAKE UP wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:49 AM:

" PEOPLE PLEASE,YES WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE ANGRY THAT THEY ARE TEACHING ABOUT ISLAM, THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE YOU ARE AFFRAID OF LEARNING YOURSELF. NOT ALL ISLAMIC PEOPLE ARE BAD, YOU FEEL THAT BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE CONTRAVERSEY OVER-SEAS. HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT, LAND OF THE FREE, WE WELCOME ALL RELIGIONS, ALL FAITHS. THAT IS WHAT THIS COUNTRY IS MADE UP OF, HAVE YOU REALLY FORGOTTEN THAT??? ARE YOU GOING TO PREDUDICE EVERY OTHER RELIGION THAT IS NOT YOURS? OR IS IT JUST ISLAM. "

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My child has this book, too wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:32 AM:

" I agree with Thomas - there is nothing wrong in learning about other cultures and religions. The school environment and a well-thought out textbook are better than learning at home with bias or racist parents. "

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Max Stanfield wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:11 AM:

" "...which she said has been approved by the state board of education." Completely meaningless, the State Board buckled to CAIR and the muslim lobby years ago. They are bought and paid for by muslim pressure groups. "

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Leonard wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:06 AM:

" Brian: Have you actually looked at the textbook? "

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Go Selfs! wrote on Oct 30, 2007 10:00 AM:

" It's amazing how politically correct other religions are, but mention Christianity, OHHH NO we can't have that in our schools. "

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JustWrong wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:21 AM:

" Americans should not have to learn these things. This is the America. They won't even let us say the Pledge to our flag and use the word "God" in schools. They should outlaw Islam teachings too. "

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resident-mom wrote on Oct 30, 2007 9:05 AM:

" Hooray for the Self's! "

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Mary Rolands wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:59 AM:

" Can you say "head in the sand?" "

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Thomas wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:57 AM:

" Heaven forbid we should learn about another culture/religion...and so it goes, the cycle of ignorance is perpetuated. Why are we so afraid of something different? Could it possibly be because we don't understand it? "

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Gina wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:55 AM:

" Ok, I think that we all could agree that our country is in the midst of an ideological struggle with radical Islam. WHY, WHY, WHY, then would we not want to have a greater understanding in order to better "know thine enemy?" It just doesn't make any sense to remain ignorant when the potential future of our republic could be at stake. Pull your heads out of the sand. LEARNING is not tantamount to ADOPTING. "

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Weezer wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:49 AM:

" To Mr. and Mrs. Self, welcome to America, where it's politically correct to talk about Islam and other faiths but not Christianity. That's the sad truth. "

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Joe Silva, Sr. wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:46 AM:

" I can't wait to hear the rantings of Lodi's finest fanatical bloggers on this one. It's going to be GOOD! "

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Stop propaganda wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:45 AM:

" "a passage on page 86 of the textbook, which quotes the angel Gabriel's words to the Prophet Muhammad." This does not look like objective information. Its clear that the multiculturalists are weaving their stories to fit their cloudy view of the world. What is an angel (Gabriel)? We could write a few books about that. "

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Burnt out teacher wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:19 AM:

" I have used that textbook for seven years in WA state and I can tell you it includes all world religions. It is a Humanities based curriculum including instruction via the art and literature of the times and places. History Alive also teaches the similarities of Islam, Judaism and Christianity and their part in history. This information is crucial in the environment of today's politics. Ignorance of other's beliefs is part of the world problem. Complaining parents need to know Christianity isn't the world's main religion. Wait until they find out "Jesus" is not used at all in sex education! "

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Brian wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:17 AM:

" Should we now be calling Houston School Houston Madrassa? What's next, a special footwashing room and a call to prayer? Taj Khan, You don't have to build your Islamic school. It's already built and ready for your students. "

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So what! wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:16 AM:

" I don't have school age children, however, I would fight this battle too. A mention of Islam is part of history, ok, we all know it exists, not 3 chapters of this crap...brain washing at it's best... Where does this stop? "

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Brian wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:13 AM:

" What happened to separation of church and state? There would be a tar and feathering if there were any textbooks with the teachings of Christianity in them. Like the aricle says, all religons should be mentioned in this book if we are to talk about religon in public schools. I suspect the state board of education has been payed off handsomely by some Islamic organiztion. I smell a rat. "

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fed up wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:11 AM:

" 3 chapters on Islam and only 1 paragraph on other religions is NOT espousing a religion? I beg to differ. "

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Jeff wrote on Oct 30, 2007 8:10 AM:

" oh no, we mustn't study people different from us! or people that have impacted world culture in ways different than christians! or people that we don't like! check the standards: http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/hstgrade7.asp "

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C wrote on Oct 30, 2007 7:36 AM:

" WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE TEACHING ISLAM HERE??????????? "

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CONCERNED CITIZEN wrote on Oct 30, 2007 7:09 AM:

" I SURE HOPE YOU STAND STRONG AB0UT THE TEACHING OF ISLAM FAITH. WE DON`T NEED THAT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. COME ON AMERICANS.... STAND UP AND TAKE A STAND... "

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