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Jim Self and his wife, Korina, talk about their feelings on the contents in a school history book being used to teach their son's seventh-grade history class. (Jennifer M. Howell/News-Sentinel)

Too much time on teachings of Islam?

Parents say seventh-grade textbook at Houston Elementary inappropriate

By Amanda Dyer
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Updated: Wednesday, November 7, 2007 1:59 PM PST

The parents of children at Houston Elementary School plan to complain to the school board about concerns they have with a seventh-grade history textbook, which they feel pays an undue amount of attention to the teachings of Islam.

When Jim Self asked his son last week what he was learning in school, he was surprised to hear his 12-year-old boy say that he was learning about the Prophet Muhammad.

That night Jim Self and his wife, Korina, flipped through their son’s textbook, “History Alive!: The Medieval World and Beyond,” and found at least three chapters dedicated to the Islamic faith, including an entire chapter dedicated to the Prophet Muhammad.

Since then, the couple has started a campaign to remove the textbook from their child’s classroom. The book is used in classrooms throughout the district.

“I don’t think we would have an issue about it if (it wasn’t so) in-depth,” said Jim Self, who fought in Iraq as a Marine from 2003 to 2004.

Among the Selfs’ concerns about the textbook is its definition of the word “jihad,” which is described in the book as “the human struggle to overcome difficulties and do things that would be pleasing to God.”

Other concerns stem from a passage on page 86 of the textbook, which quotes the angel Gabriel’s words to the Prophet Muhammad.

The Selfs said the textbook mentioned Jesus only twice, and other major religions were only given a paragraph of explanation.

One of the Selfs’ biggest concerns, though, is that such detailed explanation of Islam is a violation of the separation of church and state.

“If he was in college and he was studying world religions, fine,” Jim Self said.

The Selfs, who are Christians, worry that their reaction to the textbook will cause people to label them as religious “wackos.”

“We’re just regular people,” Jim Self said.

The Selfs don’t have an issue with their son learning about other cultures, but said that each culture should be represented equally.

“They want to take the Ten Commandments off the steps of the Supreme Court, but you’re going to teach my 12-year-old son how to pray?” Jim Self asked.

In fact, the Selfs’ asked that their son not be named to avoid unwanted repercussions.

But that didn’t stop them from telling Houston Elementary’s administration that their son will not be participating in history class, a request with which the school has complied.

“I was very clear that my son will not be studying these next few chapters,” Korina Self said.

However, Anne Cecchetti, curriculum coordinator of instructional media services at Lodi Unified School District, had a different take on the textbook, which she said has been approved by the state board of education.

“We’re just explaining something. That’s education,” Cecchetti said. “When you start espousing a religion, that’s when you have a problem with the separation of church and state.”

Cecchetti was surprised that the Selfs had not been informed of Lodi Unified’s school board policy that allows any resident or employee to challenge a textbook if they feel the book is inappropriate. Forms for requests for formal reconsideration are on hand at each school site, according to board policy.

Korina and Jim Self have been encouraging other parents to look at the textbook and make their own conclusions. Korina Self said she would be collecting signatures of parents who disapproved of the textbook during the next few days.

She also said she would bring the matter to the attention of the school board during its next meeting on Nov. 6.

Parents in Arizona requested that the same textbook, which was being used on a trial basis, be pulled from classrooms in Scottsdale Unified School District because they felt the book contained Islamic propaganda, according to an article in the East Valley Tribune newspaper.

TCI, the book’s publisher, ended the trial period before the school district could act, saying that the book did not match with new state standards.

Natasha Martin, spokesperson for TCI, said the book does comply with California’s state standards and it was thoroughly reviewed by the state before being approved.

“It is common for parents in the state to raise concerns about the teaching of Islam because they do not know that it is required by the state standards, and they don’t understand that all major religions are taught as part of the sixthand seventhgrade world history courses,” Martin wrote in an e-mail.

Denice Shigematsu, principal at Houston Elementary, also said the book complies with a California state standard requiring students to learn about diverse religions.

Shigematsu said she has only received one complaint about the book this year. Shigematsu said she had received two separate complaints about textbooks in previous years, but the complaints were resolved once the parents met with the teacher and discussed how the curriculum was being taught.

However, that information isn’t comforting to parent Jordi Domenech, who said the text should cover all religions equally, or none at all.

That’s something, Domenech said, that should be taught at home.

Contact reporter Amanda Dyer at amandad@lodinews.com.

Reader Feedback

worshipper wrote on Nov 18, 2007 7:50 PM:

" Wow. I know this blog will die a slow death because there are so many that do not care. Perhaps an uprising of the silent majority will occur when the extremists are at our front door. Do not let history fade. The Jews denied God and turned their back on His law and paid for it heavily. We, a Judeo Christian nation have turned our backs on His law and we will pay for it heavily as well. My goodness, look at our me me me culture and ask yourself why the Islamists hate us. Think "

msaodms wrote on Nov 16, 2007 5:58 AM:

" not like there is nothing about cristianity or jews allah and muhaamad are fake its not like he is gooing to convirt "

Steve Baldwin wrote on Nov 12, 2007 4:29 PM:

" Just so everyone knows; Islamic propaganda is appearing in schools all over America and most people have no clue that the textbook publishers actually contract out Islamic "consultants" who hate America to write portions of our textbooks. I should know. I'm the former Chairman of the Education Committee in the Legislature and a former member of the Calif. Curriculum Commission, the agency responsible for creating a list of approved texts. The commission is full of people who hate Western Civilizations and the values we were founded upon. Welcome to the Jihad! "

missymac wrote on Nov 12, 2007 12:20 PM:

" Were you at the board meeting? I was. This mother questioned how teaching religion is not a conflict of separating church and state but reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is. She asked the District to tie in learning how Muslims pray with specific historical events. She encouraged parents to be involved. Is it propaganda? How will we know if we aren't paying attention? Education promotes diplomacy. We need to teach advanced citizenship, too. "

real facts wrote on Nov 11, 2007 10:45 AM:

" here's a challenge danny boy, prove just ONE TIME where i have ever lied. just once. you always trumpet that with no basis. it's the only thing you have to go to, because your position is that weak. anytime you have to lie about someones character, you have no position. you wanna make me go away? actually tell the truth and back up what you say (for the first time). i would probably die of a heart attack from the shock of witnessing it alone. pa-thetic "

r80ant wrote on Nov 11, 2007 8:58 AM:

" I think the Pastors of Lodi are too busy trying to figure out the Trinity then deal with some blind sheep who miss Church services only to be found protesting the context of a textbook at a School Board Meeting. "

real facts wrote on Nov 10, 2007 4:59 PM:

" to 12x and audi5000; i would like to refer you to an article written in the religion section at LNS entitled "Safe and non-threatening isn't Jesus' way" written by a pastor nolan. in it you will find both a reason as to why i do what i do, and more importantly, a resaon for the both of you to realize what God did for you, is worth the effort it takes to uphold that truth. as i stated, being "loving" is only the half of it. telling the truth is the other "

The Myth of Neutrality wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:47 PM:

" Because education is not neutral, it should never have been entrusted to the State--and until 1840 in America was not! This was the period of great leaders in America--of truly genius thinkers, not "group thinkers". Let this Islam issue cause us to reexamine the foundations of education of our children. A truly free people does not have the State educate its children. Adolf Hitler said, "Give me control of the textbooks, and I will control all Germany." And he did. Do we really want to risk this tyranny of the State here in America? "

The Myth of Neutrality wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:41 PM:

" The courageous Jim and Korina Self family is properly outraged over the emphasis and positive presentation given to Islam in the TCI textbook and is taking the school district to task over it. I hope that many concerned parents will contact them and help this effort. However, this issue brings to light the underlying problem: whose view of history will be taught? The State cannot solve this problem, but merely arbitrarily standardizes it, to the disgust of many. The fact is "history" is not neutral. Education is not neutral. "

Where are the pastors? wrote on Nov 10, 2007 2:28 PM:

" It has been nearly 2 weeks since this story about Islam indoctrination in the Lodi textbooks was written. And not a peep from the local pastors. 304 on-line comments posted, and not 1 pastor. They are A.W.O.L. Shame on them! "

real facts wrote on Nov 9, 2007 1:32 PM:

" matthew 23:33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell"? Jesus' own words. as you can tell from this and many other accountings of his dealings with his creation, he wasn't always "cuddly and nice". everytime, and in every instance, he told the truth commensurate with the circumstances. it is my push to do the same. every wonder why i never threated people with the hell angle? i very rarely have ever mentioned that. don't need to, despite it's reality. thats Gods job description "

real facts wrote on Nov 9, 2007 12:38 PM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 9 10:26 AM;sure looks that way, doesn't it? not true though. what i have is fortitude to make sure truth is told. it is not my job to bust people, but it is my job to make sure a righteous truth is upheld, when others are trashing it. whatever the results are, is up to HIM. "revenge" would play into it if i cared about what people think of me. i don't. maybe you aren't called to counter against attacks, i am. you do realize that God uses people to speak out against evil, don't you? "

Dan wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:40 AM:

" From RF's post: "...prepared to do it time and again. there is nothing i can't handle. no river i can't swim." Nor is there any lie you are unwilling to tell. If you could, RF, when would you start rounding up the non-Christians and begin their torture? Beatings must surely be your method to make people love you (and, to a lesser extent, Jesus). "

12x wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:35 AM:

" To Real Facts: Matthew 5:44 "

Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 9, 2007 10:26 AM:

" RF, you seem to have a desire to get even. You need to release yourself from the instinct of revenge because God will right all wrongs in His own perfect judgement. Be humble. "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:42 PM:

" (realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:03 PM: " Need any more? There's your watergun, realfacts. Looks more like Niagara Falls). it's ok, i've gone "over the falls" tons of times in my life. more than prepared to do it time and again. there is nothing i can't handle. no river i can't swim. afterall, i possess the ultimate life raft (or rather, HE possesses me) "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:36 PM:

" realfraud Nov 8 2:01 PM; you;( "Man, I thought Muslim women were oppressed. At least they can talk in their Mosques"). muslim women aren't even allowed IN the mosque. ever see a woman go in the lodi mosque? even around it? whats wrong with the biblical text you gave? there has to be some reason you think you somehow are giving me the what's what. so what's the beef? "

rael facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:23 PM:

" realfraud Nov 8 2:00 PM; richard macintyre (i mean realfraud), you didn't do what i told you, when you come to play. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. where's the problem in your above post? i made the statement that God killed his enemies when they threatened his people. do a little homework on the midianites before you try and make God some murderous bully. thats mohammed creating islam. i thought the koran was revamped? gonna cover that up too? "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:04 PM:

" Dan Nov 8 3:52 PM; the beauty of my life ..i don't have to lie. i make sure i tell the truth, and let the chips fall where they may. not surprised YOU would call me a liar, it's the ONLY weapon you have when dealing with me. since you NEVER intellectually debate or debunk it, thats your "go to" tactic. unfortunately (again) for you, it's another condemning historical fact. thats his title, not his name. like i said, lucky for you the message boards are gone. in it, it paints an accurate picture about who is the liar "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:56 PM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 8 1:03 PM; "smashmouth evangelism". ummm, never heard that before. know what your getting at though. not me. thought i read one of your posts somewhere that indicated YOU were a Christian? maybe i was wrong? given your last statement, we aren't playing for the same team (i guess). because if we where (even though you don't like my "boldness"), you wouldn't have said that. now that you did, maybe you can tell me where i went wrong (biblically). not your opinion, biblically. Jesus, paul and others told the truth. of what i said, what isn't true? "

Chuck wrote on Nov 8, 2007 5:44 PM:

" Then you will admit that your "god" and "allah" are the same entity? "

Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 3:52 PM:

" Still twisting, I see. Your slogan should be "Lying For Christ". If you ever tried to tell the truth I think your tongue would snap off. The tragedy is that you lie for your "god" and you actually think it's right and holy to do so, as long as it is in his name (whatever you are calling him today). "

Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 3:36 PM:

" Hey Dan, you go by several different names yourself: Dan, Danny, Daniel possibly? An occupation can gain us a title, a hobby can, nickname can, etc. So what, you're still one person aren't you? "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:08 PM:

" just to clarify the reading audience. dan the intellectual genious he likes to think he is, states that Jesus Christ never even lived, that it's all a myth. you heard me right, he thinks the life of Christ never happened. you have to be completely lost in hate to make that statement. no one can erase history. no one. can't even pretend that it will somehow disappear. it either was, or didn't. i love history. history soldifies the claims of Christ "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:04 PM:

" he IS the same, you just can't face it. it is the ONLY TIME in history, where a designation IS the "name". it literally means "God coming to earth to take upon himself the sins of mankind". it's his designation (title). it's not his name. i love how God differentiated himself from all mankind that way, by designating himself thousands of years before he became flesh. when you say the words Jesus Christ, you are calling him God. not by his "name". wanna try again? "

realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:03 PM:

" Need any more? There's your watergun, realfacts. Looks more like Niagara Falls. "

realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:01 PM:

" Here's some more wonderfully inspiring passages. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." Man, I thought Muslim women were oppressed. At least they can talk in their Mosques. "

realfraud wrote on Nov 8, 2007 2:00 PM:

" Imagine, all of your ranting and raving and the Quran remains unchanged since the time it was revealed. The same cannot be said about the forgery you extremists claim to be the inspired word of God, the Bible. Numbers 31:17-18, "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So awe inspiring indeed. "

John Brown wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:45 PM:

" Al-Zawahiri was the leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group which he merged with Osama bin-Laden's al-Queda group to create the World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders.Today he is Osama bin Laden's second-in-command, serves as al Queda's ideological leader, and is the most likely to take over when bin Laden dies. Some, in fact, argue that bin Laden never would have been quite the terrorist leader without al-Zawahiri.Thats all folks!!!! "

John Brown wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:42 PM:

" It looks as though you folks would rather get in a whizzing match over Islam and Christianity which is right and who is wrong.Mabey your to blind or deff to see who the real bad guys are!!Have you heard of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri? You may have, and if you want to know more about the state of Islamic terrorism today, it is important to be familiar with his name. "

Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:22 PM:

" What, exactly, do you imagine yourself to be protecting, Real Fakes? Either the myth stands or it doesn't. Your hysterical bleatings are not going to supply the missing truth. And, as I already knew, you will twist any statement - previously you said god and jesus were the same and his name was jesus. now you change it. Ho hum. "

Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 1:03 PM:

" RF: So what church do you attend? I'd like to know if your style of smash-mouth evangelism is a widely held belief. But I'm warning you, if you invite me I might show up but I'm not getting into "The Octagon". "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:45 AM:

" Dan Nov 8 11:02 AM; i was laughing last night, knowing you were gonna high five yourself thinking you "had me". read my nov 7th 9:17pm blog "think you have me now"? the words Jesus Christ is his designation (title), it's not his name. Jesus means "the Lord our salvation". God has literally become (come in the flesh) our salvation. Christ means "annointed one" or "messiah". ever notice, how you always think you have me dan? it would be better for you, if you didn't play anymore. you only help me make my point. i was correct, one name "

real facts wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:24 AM:

" Audi 5000 Nov 8 7:58 AM; i don't attack, i defend. by telling the truth. big difference. read back over my blogs, they are inline with my claim that i defend. i defend against attacks on Christ and Christianity. don't care what people think about me, but attack Christ, and i will defend that. what you aren't used to, is Christians that actually stand up for whats right. so audi, it's ok for people to say whatever they want, but not ok for a Christian to tell the truth? maybe then, you could show me where i said something "untruthful" "

Dan wrote on Nov 8, 2007 11:02 AM:

" So... I guess then his name isn't Jesus after all, Real Fakes? You made quite a pretense of that on the now-defunct forums. What happened? Did history change? Isn't Jesus god anymore? Or his IS god and his name wasn't Jesus? Or was it Isa? Or Issa? The truth is, RF, you don't have the slightest idea what you are such an expert on. "

I disagree wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:32 AM:

" to 96325: Islam is not a way of life...it is a way of death. You people kill anyone even other people of your faith in the name of your death religion. Disagree with you and I deserve to die...Islam is hate hate hate. "

i DISAGREE wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:29 AM:

" Has anyone every seen a Islamic protest against terrorist? NO...WHY? BECAUSE ISLAMIC PEOPLE HATE ANYONE WHO IS NOT ISLAMIC. THEY ARE ALL BAD MR. WAKE UP! ISLAM IS WRONG, INTOLERANT, RACES AND FULL OF HATE. "

I disagree wrote on Nov 8, 2007 8:24 AM:

" Wake up said not all Islam people are bad. "

Audi 5000 wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:58 AM:

" Real Facts: Does your church have a caged octagon in the sanctuary where you throw submission holds onto all those who don't subscribe to your personal slant of the Bible? You unlovingly attack people that don't agree with you, but do you pray for them? A hypocrite would do both! Or do you not pray for others? Not so Christian! It's one or the other, which one is it? "

Lodian wrote on Nov 8, 2007 7:47 AM:

" Is it not the job of the parents to teach their religion to their own children? "

Religion wrote on Nov 8, 2007 6:37 AM:

" Religion was invented by man to make him feel better about his mortality. Children believe because of their culture (like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny). As we mature we learn it's a scam to make money and exert control over us: Billionaire televangelists with $24,000 gold plated toilets, mansions and exotic cars and planes. As humans age we are closer to death start fearing it more, so we throw our money at the churches to "save us" but that only gives them more power over us. "

real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 10:01 PM:

" realfraud; you..."Richard's book restricts killing to idolworshippers". either you haven't read his book, or you are covering for it's violent historical content because you are a justifiable symphathizer (like richard). richards book commands the eventual killing of ALL infidels who refuse allah/islam. now that we have that straight, maybe you can explain (or justify) bombing innocent people in london? which ones in that crowd were "guilty" and deserved it? how did those bombs know that? smart bombs? "

Facts about Islam TODAY wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:51 PM:

" To protect the actions of Mohammed, The Islamic state of Pakistan lowered the age of consent for women to age NINE last year! Aisha was nine when she married Mohammed. If they only had the TV show "Perverted Justice back then". LOL I see lots of Islamic pervs. Yasser Arafat was gay, and Palestinians hate the jews of Israel? Okay I guess being pedophilic homosexual must be better than being Jewish? "

John Brown wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:45 PM:

" Ayman al-Zawahiri-1998 The ruling is to Kill the Americans and their allies, civilians and military.It is an individual duty for every Muslim in any country to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque [in Jerusalem] and the holy mosque in Makka[in Saudi Arabia] from their grip and for their Armys to move out of the land of all Islam defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. "

real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:17 PM:

" his name is yahweh. self designated, and self authenticated over the centuries via attributes only attributable to God. no other "god" in history has been able to self authenticate it's claim, whether "it" specifically named itself or not. none. plenty of people on sacramento street think their god. what? you were hoping that it was clay aiken? i can imagine your disappointment. it's a reocurring theme in your life. think you have me now? "

real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 9:04 PM:

" realfraud Nov 7 12:42 PM: when you come to play, come with a fully loaded gun, not a squirt gun. had you read the full context of duet 20 (which people like you never do), you would have read that God NEVER hunts people for sport (unlike islam). read it. it contains the explanation of justifiable war against an agressive enemy. "make peace FIRST" , then (and only then) when they seek to kill you, bury them. self defense is defensible. killing for sport isn't. read all of it next time before you come to play "

Chuck wrote on Nov 7, 2007 6:25 PM:

" Here are a few: YHWH Yahweh Jehovah Allah Xwedê god So, RF, please... no worries..looks like you are all on the same team!! "

annoymous wrote on Nov 7, 2007 6:09 PM:

" Islam is great religion and should be taught throught the country and it is not wrong for people to learn it. It's not wrong for childern to learn about it extends their knowledge.Muslims respect all religions and all religions need to do that too. "

real facts wrote on Nov 7, 2007 1:46 PM:

" your right, im intolerant. intolerant of people talking trash about Christ and Christianity, or when someone is symphathetic to extremeist views. then im all about it. you don't have to read this stuff you know? but when you take a swipe at me, im not one of those wimpy Christians that will sit there and take it. so if you don't want some, don't come looking for some. your only avoiding designating exactly who God is, because you realize if you do, you would become accountable to him. you are anyway, even when you don't think you are. one name "

Dan wrote on Nov 7, 2007 12:57 PM:

" Ok, RF, why don't you just tell us all what your god's name is. Since you insist he has only one - and you cal him "God", I presume you will say, "God". If not, then you lied. If you say his name is "Jesus" that will also be a lie. The dull part of your trolling is, you are so busy making up new "facts" to dazzle yourself, you don't even realise your own contradictions. "

realfraud wrote on Nov 7, 2007 12:42 PM:

" Deuteronomy 20:16 "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." Richard's book restricts killing to idolworshippers while your book commands killing everything that breathes. "

Chuck wrote on Nov 7, 2007 11:07 AM:

" Obviously, real facts, you have the hatred, you are closed minded, and without tolerance, your god has gone by many names through the ages, please educate yourself, and run along.. We do not need you telling us that your invisible friend is better than our invisible friend... you understand.. "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:36 PM:

" to Dan, well you can thank us then, because it's far more productive over the long haul, then to debate over whose a better singer ...clay aiken, or lance bass (if you catch my drift). as of now, that pretty much sums up the depth of your life "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:28 PM:

" richard, i know islam has taught you different, because they want to elevate mohammed to prophet status, but it isn't history. history trumps islam, in that history (the O.T.), it never even mentions mohammed, except how to spot a false prophet. Jesus' life on the other hand was foretold thousands of years before he came. that he would come as Lord and savior. you know, the same "history" muslims refer to when speaking of true prophets (abraham, etc). Jesus is coming back, because he isn't dead. because he raised HIMSELF from the dead. "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:20 PM:

" (Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:35 PM: "What's with your faint hope that the FBI is still lurking about? I thought you threw your red, white and blue towel in for a more civil and humane approach to life's problems"). bad thing for you richard, i am excellant at reading between your lines. it would be better if you moved to pakistan, where your beliefs are more in line with the majority there. you hate america, and for that i do hope the FBI is watching you. you can't even disguise it anymore "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:14 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 6 12:25 PM: i have no problem debunking Bart Ehrman, or anyone else that lies about history. i know what you mean about taking things out of context, and the one verse here or there lame attacks as "proof". so given that, maybe you will be able to rectify "why" it was "changed"? and more importantly, the verses that instill infidel extinction, despite the "change", or without contextual excuses. what then richard? plus you can't hide how mohammed "founded" islam. thats history "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:05 PM:

" (Chuck wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:24 AM: " Pay attention Facts freak.. they are all the same one, it does not matter what clothes you out on it, or name it goes by.... all the same...ALL THE SAME.) sure they are. i bet when you walk thru a crowded mall, and someone calls out john, steve, billy or willy, you turn around to see whose calling YOUR name. come on chuck, even you know God wouldn't allow men to call him by thousands of different names. lose your hatred bias. he only has ONE name "

96325 wrote on Nov 6, 2007 10:33 PM:

" why do people make Islam so misunderstanding? Islam is the fact to the world, not just a religion but a way of life "

Akmed Akbar al Hakeem wrote on Nov 6, 2007 10:07 PM:

" Try this !!http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=418_1176494781 "

John Brown wrote on Nov 6, 2007 3:59 PM:

" I think it's time to put this mess in the john an hit FLUSH...It's beyond Stupid!!!! it's miles off subject!!! "

Dan wrote on Nov 6, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Oh, brother. First Real Fakes and Richard argued "My god can beat up YOUR god!" Now Richard is arguing his god is DEADER than RF's fake god. Alas, religion really does cause real insanity. "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:35 PM:

" There goes your authenticy rating for your scripture. Mr. Ehrman has done you in. The fact Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon Him) died means he completed his honorable mission. The fact that Jesus (peace and blessings be upon Him) is coming back only means he left his honorable mission incomplete. You're praising Muhammad and disrespecting Jesus in that way. What's with your faint hope that the FBI is still lurking about? I thought you threw your red, white and blue towel in for a more civil and humane approach to life's problems. "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 6, 2007 12:25 PM:

" realfacts; I do enjoy the way you single out one verse from the unchanged revelation, the Quran, ignoring the verses before and after it and turning a blind eye to the context of the verse(s). Do you do that to the changed Bible? Bart Ehrman's book titled "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why" reveals all that your trying so desperately to conceal. How about an excerpt form Mr. Ehrman's book? Nah, we'd better not. "

real facts wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:41 AM:

" disclaimer; despite my getting downtown with the likes of richard, i DO NOT hate muslims. i don't care who a person is, or what their into, as long as they act human, im good. i have many friends and aquaintances in all walks of life, most of them are NOT Christians. there are alot of muslims in lodi that are peaceful, and i applaude that. what i do hate is evil, and i will always speak up about that. therein lies the difference. "

Chuck wrote on Nov 6, 2007 11:24 AM:

" Pay attention Facts freak.. they are all the same one, it does not matter what clothes you out on it, or name it goes by.... all the same...ALL THE SAME.. "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 11:03 PM:

" they all are the same? every individual road, path and opinion leads to God? there is only one elvis. the rest are imposters. get this, and you'll live in "graceland". you don't, and you will be residing at heartbreak hotel. (or some kind of goofy analogy) "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:58 PM:

" Chuck wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:46 PM: (" Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same... "). chuck, i can tell that having commensense on these matters might not be your strong suit, but even you have to admit in your heart despite what anyone else in here claims, that there can be only one God that you will stand in front of on that day. one name, not "several". pick wisely chuck. get the wrong one, eternity is a long time to be "all inclusive". "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:50 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 3:09 PM; since when did the jewish scriptures lose it's authenticity as Gods word, to be replaced by the koran? come on richard. islam was only founded after mohammed lusted for power, trying to give "face" to a pagan moon God without designation. there is no "allah". he is a false God, represented by a man whose history was anything but "righteous". Jesus on the other hand (historically) lived up to his "billing". including raising HIMSELF from the dead AFTER he claimed to be God. games not over yet, until Jesus returns. mohammeds dead "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:41 PM:

" Allah says Nov 5 3:07 PM; first you said richard was your brother in "faith". that would be true. you BOTH share the same ideals. like the one you truthfully displayed in your next post at 3:11pm, (" Swords are obsolete and Allah praises the day explosives were invented"). religion of peace huh? religion of lies more like it (according to you two). at least you are more honest than richard about true islam. now i can only hope the FBI is reading this, and knows your computer IP number. go crawl back under your rock "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:35 PM:

" richard; this is but one. got alot more. what say you in rectifying that islam is "peaceful" both in it's foundation, and it's gathering steam current world application by "some"?... ("Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush..." Surah 9:5.). "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:30 PM:

" richard nov5th 2:48pm con't---> and although you are attempting to sweep what your prophet did, to gain his own designation under the rug, you still can't rectify a "peaceful islam" with the many koranic verses that call for the destruction of infidels. that alone would be enough of an indictment against islam. muhammeds violent foundation, the multiple call for violence koranic verses tell the real story. your either lying about it, or your ignorant of it. which is it? shall i type the violent koranic "scriptures" for you? "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:24 PM:

" richard nov5th 2:48pm; now i know your lying about islam's history. it's what muslims do these days in order to slide their beliefs under the front door. purposefully omit (lie) about it's history, so as to make it appear "peaceful". i know you know different. history begs to differ on your account of islam. it's an historical fact that you have to rectify in here, that muhammed gained his prophet status after killing people. CONT---------> "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:10 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 2:31 PM: i would bet my entire life that accusation is true. know how i can? HISTORY. you and i can never escape history. one can only defend what actually happened in history, and you richard are on the losing end of that equation. you can't escape the historical fact that muhammed founded islam only after he used violence to do so. killed people that didn't accept islam. did he or did he not. remember, you can't circumvent history, you can only lie about it to cover it up. did it happen? "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:03 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 1:58 PM: to be honest, i am not well acquianted with what actually did happen in your history lesson, but let's say your accurate (for once). when ANY Christians killed ANYBODY in the name of Christ (except for self defense purposes), i completely condemn that. unlike muslims, no where has God directed his people to kill someone else because they didn't believe in him. it was either self defense, or a pre-emptive strike directed by God on those who displayed intent to destroy. islam is 180 degree's opposite "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:55 PM:

" Richard McIntyre Nov 5 1:55 PM: come on richard, i know you can debate an issue better than that. so islam was "peaceful" for a time here and there in history. what legitimacy is there in that? you COMPLETELY skipped over islam's foundational history at the hands of your murderous "prophet". that and the korans internal call for the eventual genocide of all infidels. answer that charge richard. there are some peaceful muslims in lodi, for now. and you never condemn muslim violence. try truth for once, instead of weak legitimacy spin "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:42 PM:

" 12x cont---> opposition to abortion and other issues in direct opposition to Gods standards come to mind. there are times when a believer has to take a stand, and not let sin go unabated, so that people will realize there actually ARE standards. thats my push. if you knew me in my personal life, you would know i am not a head hunter. not my thing. for some reason, the door is wide open for this at LNS. i am being "obedient". a believer should be willing to tell the whole truth. i do "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:37 PM:

" 12x Nov 5 8:19 AM: you are right (mostly). what you are forgetting is that it is the duty of the believer (at times) to defend against purposefull evil. leonards tripe falls within that category, because if allowed to dispense his bent version of Christianity unabated, others tend to believe that they can too. believers are allowing too much of this, without a counter voice. biblical history shows what happens when cultural sin is left unchecked. cont-------> "

Hamad Abib wrote on Nov 5, 2007 8:29 PM:

" District personnel are weasels and will grovel to islam while stabbing all other religions in the back. They are bought and paid for by islam radicals and CAIR....tho they dont know it. "

John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 6:35 PM:

" This little number will fit a few folks on this post. ye know who ye are... --Five frogs are sitting on a log. Four decide to jump off. How many are left? Answer: five. Why? Because there's a difference between deciding & doing. "

NoMorePCTripe wrote on Nov 5, 2007 5:46 PM:

" "Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same..." HA HA that's what they want you think. I encourage independent study and though on the matter. (Oh and if Allah is capitalized, so should the 'G' in God.) "

Chuck wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:46 PM:

" Allah & god, or Jesus as some may call him are all the same... "

John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 4:06 PM:

" Well top O the mornin to ya. all a long it was my bloody Irish kin that took out the twin towers,the Buses in England and the Trains in Spain and ran amok in Africa,South East Asia,and the Phillippines.Ya see what happens when we don't get our Irish Mist,A thousand pardons to the wee Muslims and have a pint on me "

John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:54 PM:

" Richard McIntyre and Allah says... ya-all must be blind and tone deff too. If and it's a big If Let the moderates of the Muslim world stand up and be counted,you know if you talk the talk the you have to walk the walk...I sure as hell wont hold my breath on this one.Allah says Lets hear some comment on the sleeper cells and the radical mosque in Dearborn mich... "

Allah says wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:10 PM:

" Richard is right - Allah would never condone spreading the word by force of the sword. Swords are obsolete and Allah praises the day explosives were invented. visit www.thereligionofpeace.com and repeat after me, Allah akbar! "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:09 PM:

" Game over. I believe it's about time for you to enter the Mosque and fall in prostration to the Lord of Jesus, Allah the Most Glorious. Matthew 26:39 describes your god (Jesus) as falling on his face and praying to his God (Allah). The worship of God alone was Jesus' simple message. Quran 43:64, [Jesus said]: "Verily, Allah! He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path." Your surrendering is to God, not the Muslims. "

Allah says wrote on Nov 5, 2007 3:07 PM:

" Yes, my brother in faith Richard is correct. Visit www.thereligionofpeace.com to witness for yourself the love and compassion practiced by Muslims today. Remember, it's www.thereligionofpeace.com and Alah promises you an eye-opening experience. See the love and tolerance for yourself. "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 2:48 PM:

" The legend that "Islam was spread by the sword" is an evil one, a myth that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims - the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks. During his reign, Manuel, while promising to reunite the Church, made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an attempt to drum up support. There is no doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian countries against the Turks and convince them to start a new crusade. "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 2:31 PM:

" realfacts; You're echoing allegations hurled at Muslims by a Byzantine Emperor named Manuel II Palaeologus at the end of the 14th century during a religious debate with a Persian Msulim scholar. "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Why would he say such things? And, are they true? "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:58 PM:

" In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the Gentile Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith - and they were the forefathers of most of today's Palestinians. "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:55 PM:

" realfacts; The treatment of other religions by Islam is judged by a simple test: How did Muslim rulers behave for over a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread Islam by the sword"? Well, they just didn't. For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Were the Greeks instructed to accept Islam or be put to death? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations were devout Christians who were never compelled to accept Islam while living under Ottoman rule. "

preston stroud pt. 2 wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:24 PM:

" ...especially to the person who posted a comment under the name brian- if a large muslim organization payed of the state board to pass aprove of this book, then should those who cant comprehend the practical value of this book, people like you, pay right back to have the book removed? think about it, free of prejudices, and you might for once think of something that makes sense "

preston stroud wrote on Nov 5, 2007 1:23 PM:

" just a comment from the perspective of a schoolage person, maybe the reason that there is more focus on islam at this time is that we are fighting a war in a region of the world that is largely populated by muslims... why would we study just as much about catholics as muslims? also, there are obviously a lot of mualims in our area, so a better understanding of their religion could prevent your seemingly overly impressionable children from being prejudice like a majority of the comments that i just read... "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 11:07 AM:

" and in actuality, muslim extremeists ARE representing islam. study islam's history, and like i said, it's foundation is mayhem. study the koran, and you will find that it's latent with references multiple times about doing away (by killing) of the infidels. the moderates eschew (but not fully reject) the violent aspects of islam. though there are peaceful aspects of islam, and peaceful muslims, islam calls for the eventual destruction of ALL infidels. that is historically accurate about islam. read it's history and the koran for yourself "

real facts wrote on Nov 5, 2007 10:52 AM:

" eek, actually your statement is incorrect. forget about Christianity's natural opposition to islam, the correct historical base of islam was founded by the sword. muhammed had a penchant for killing people that refused his self proclaimed "prophet" status. thats not religious bias. thats history. islam was founded via mayhem. radicals are going back to it's foundation. there are peaceful aspects of islam, and most muslims are peaceful. but the radical aspects of it's foundation are gathering steam. how many moderates do you ever hear denouncing extremeism? it's "history" is not peaceful "

Richard McIntyre wrote on Nov 5, 2007 9:53 AM:

" I'm still wondering how TCI, the book's publisher, managed to confine all of the available information about Islam into 3 chapters. Quite an accompishment on the part of TCI. Bravo! All Jim Selfish and his "lovely" wife are doing is exposing the double standards and hypocritical policies that exist in America. Bringing the matter up to the school board will only further expose the backwardness that exists in society and in their hearts. "

12x wrote on Nov 5, 2007 8:19 AM:

" RF: Do you feel you're accomplishing anything by "putting people in their place"? Alienating apologetics is not Godly apologetics. Christians must be ready to systematically defend their faith to others because of our true love and concern for their eternal destiny. The Holy Spirit works to open the eyes and hearts, as he wills. Allow him to do his work. "

John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 7:19 AM:

" So I have a very big problem with that. I also have a problem with the fact that there Sleeper Cells active in this country and they know how to work our system.Some time in the near future we could be like Israel,you never know if the restaurant,bar or movie theater is going to blow up while your in it.Think that wont happen,guess again!!Knowing about Islam wont help... "

John Brown wrote on Nov 5, 2007 6:58 AM:

" Major lack of Commonsense!!! why do you tend to jump on the Christian faith??? 75% Of Americans belive in GOD!Frankly I don't give a rats behind what you think of me,,,I am an American first and formost I see a faction who's aim is to destroy our way of life and if the moderates of their religon would step up and stop it I would not have a problem with them But they wont!!! "

eek wrote on Nov 4, 2007 11:02 AM:

" First, radicals who have "hi-jacked Isalm" is correct. Terrorists are trying to manipulate Islam to justify their hate. But their actions do not represent Islam. Second, people seem to have very strong opinions about this religion. All the more reason to learn more about it in order to continue to have knowledgeable debates. Understanding others increases wisdom and power. "

real facts wrote on Nov 4, 2007 10:34 AM:

" commonsense, i should have asked you, but nearly forgot. since it would appear that your an expert in knowing what constitutes "Christian faith", where have i gone awry? i am looking forward to you letting me know how the Christian faith really should work, and most of all, where YOU get your standards to be able to speak with such authority on the subject. you made the comment. now you can back that comment up. certainly there can be only ONE standard for this subject matter. not varied "opinions". "