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Another source for alternative power

Updated: Thursday, February 1, 2007 6:54 AM PST

Imagine California with an overabundant amount of water and electricity. Arnold wants to build a couple of dams, but at what cost?

A dam is only as good as the water behind it, and relies on rain and snow to meet the demands it was built for. In drought years, water will be at a premium. Most rivers in the state are at their limit —to build another dam is a bad idea.

Now comes the subject of electricity. Much has been said concerning wind, solar and whatever else might generate power to keep the lights on and the Tivo operating. Alternative sources of power are only an expensive band-aid that could never hope to meet the demand now, or for the foreseeable future, let alone five to 10 years from now, with up to date solar panels costing well over $15,000 — and that's after rebates — while at times watching the meter operate backwards. However, you will never see that house disconnected from that 240 volt line bringing power in from that gas-fired power plant.

On second thought, I can buy a lot of electricity for $15,000, and if anything breaks, Lodi Electric or PG&E will repair it, free of charge.

While anything and everything seems to cost in the billions of dollars these days, I would suggest a way to have enough power as to never have a brown-out or black-out again, and never have to skimp with water. Yes there is a way to meet the demands of both.

Desalination of water taken from the Pacific Ocean or S.F. Bay is endless, along with nuclear power. More than enough clean power that won't add to global warming, and sufficient water, therefore never having to be concerned about a drought again.

Saudi Arabia gets all of its water through desalination; there is never a lack of water in that country. Green power is fine if you're a jolly giant on the side of a can of corn or Kermit the Frog. Stopping to think about it, we're already 20 years too late.

Ed Walters
Lodi

Reader Feedback

Daniel wrote on Feb 6, 2007 2:15 PM:

" forgive me: I didn't see desalinization anywhere. Yes, it does require energy, because it is a distillation process. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 6, 2007 12:06 PM:

" Dan: I hope you are not insinuating that I do not live in Lodi. My feelings would be hurt if that were said, even though it is technically correct right now. Actually, you could practicaly throw a rock to my house. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 6, 2007 12:03 PM:

" Dan: "safely away from you" has no meaning if nuclear material escapes. Anything downwind is exposed, I would say as far as the Mississippi River. Therefore, Diablo Canyon (is it operating) is in our backyard. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 6, 2007 12:00 PM:

" Dan: More recently, when I understood nuclear power better, I lived on a gray, nuclear-powered ship in the US Navy. Daily, I walked through the adjacent nuclear shipyard. I walked past marines on watch, guarding nuclear material that was being loaded/onloaded. I was never afraid. "

Dan wrote on Feb 6, 2007 11:59 AM:

" Dan: I would be willing to live next door to a nuclear reactor. Actually, Lodi is next door to Rancho Seco. I have lived a portion of my life in Acampo, which was closer, without fear. "

forgive me wrote on Feb 4, 2007 10:24 PM:

" but doesnt desalination of water require an input of energy? how would this solve our energy needs? "

oh wrote on Feb 4, 2007 8:17 PM:

" You know what we need is a different suppler here in Lodi!They use are power department to fund other peoples pet projects!And those people DON"T EVEN LIVE IN THE CITY OF LODI.Do I need to give you names?Just go look at (HSS)what names do you see on it? "

oh wrote on Feb 4, 2007 8:09 PM:

" We need nuke!I can't take what the City is doing to my rear!!!!The bill has doubled and their not going to stop there!If I could bottle up the steam that they give me,I could power my own home with it. "

nylodian wrote on Feb 4, 2007 12:31 PM:

" Leonard: You and I have gone around on this topic before, so I won't waste my breath. But understand I am not "anti-enviromentalist kook" just because I favor nuclear energy over our dependence of oil. I make a point to buy enviromentally safe products and actively volunteer to maintain wildlife habitats, among other things. "

Boomer wrote on Feb 4, 2007 9:41 AM:

" Leonard - In order to meet the growing demand for electricity in the coming decades this country is going to have to build more large capacity (800-1500 MW/hr)steam driven turbine genertor plants. These plants will either be fossil (coal or oil)or nuclear. If you are concerned about global warming, then fossil may not be as appealing. 20% of the electricity generated in this country today comes from nuclear power. Nuclear plants need to be run safely, but who really wants to break a 2-4 BILLION dollar machine. "

Dan wrote on Feb 3, 2007 9:42 AM:

" Daniel, reread your posts of 2/2, made between 10 pm and 10:30, then tell me you want a nuclear reactor here, in Lodi. And if you don't want one here, why would the local residents want one where you would place one (safely away from you)? "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:29 PM:

" Dan and Leonard: Yes, 3-Mile Island did experience a partial melt-down, and release of a small amount of radiation. The governor only ordered evacuation of high risk women who were pregnant, and children under 5. We cannot say that all reactors are similar to 3-Mile Island, because the accident resulted in widespread improvements in the factors that lead to the accident. See NRC at: http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:25 PM:

" Dan and Leonard: Two physicists talking to each other at: http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-47795.html They discuss the inherent unstability of Chernobyl. Operators were confused by the xenon, which requires 12-hours to stabilize, so they turned-OFF the automatic safety features which were responding to the unstable condition. Xenon confused the Manhattan Project and turned off the first reactor. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:19 PM:

" Dan and leonard: I understand better now. It is easiest to refute the possibility of an accident of the type at Chernobyl from ever occurring in the US. The Chernobyl design had a positive void coefficient* because it used graphite moderator. *When coolant is removed, does the reactor increase or decrease in its reactivity? Chernobyl: increase (positive). US Light-water Reactors: decrease(negative void coefficient). "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:11 PM:

" Dan and Leonard: The issue of nuclear safety is one where very few members of the public can understand the nuclear engineering, while nuclear engineers and NRC are the only individuls who are qualified to understand. I have seen these people give presentations with only partial understanding of what they were talking about. (15-20 years ago) "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:06 PM:

" Leonard: Have you ever heard of somebody martyring their own life to separate two pieces of plutonium from each other, so that the they would not get together and produce massive amounts of radiation? "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:03 PM:

" Leonard: I never said there wasn't ever a death. I have heard rumors of stories in the US that were much more gruesome than Karen Silkwood's, which I just read. Yes, she was exposed; but, Silkwood died in an auto accident after having taken methaqualone, which induces drowsiness. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 9:50 PM:

" OK- I'll concede that somebody decided to shut it down. In this condition, it's safe. Nobody was exposed. Still, I wonder why they shut it down. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 9:45 PM:

" Leonard: How about using the design of Rancho Seco that is already built there? "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 6:36 PM:

" Leonard, Dan: Part of the problem with public relations with the nuclear power industry is that very few members of the public are qualified on nuclear engineering. For example, the US Navy has tough requirements for entry into nuclear engineering. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 6:31 PM:

" Leonard, Dan: I know people are skeptical about 3-mile island, but few people realize there was a containment building around the reactors. Its purpose was to capture radiation in the event of a minor release. It functioned properly. "

Karen who? wrote on Feb 2, 2007 6:30 PM:

" So I guess we can just build windmills everywhere? Oh wait, birds might fly into them and die! Can`t do that! OK then, we`ll just build giant solar collectors everywhere! I guess it`d be OK to have to look at those, Oh wait, that would be unsitely! Can`t do that either.. "

Karen who? wrote on Feb 2, 2007 6:26 PM:

" Who the heck is Karen Silkwood? Anybody who is not a moron knows that today`s nuclear reactors are FAR more advanced and far safer than the dinosaurs of yesteryear. It`s like comparing a Model T to a Hummer. "

sam wrote on Feb 2, 2007 6:00 PM:

" Dan, seriously, I looked into solar panels in my vineyards... pull out a few acres and plant panels. PG&E is not interested in buying such power. Sad but true. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 2, 2007 12:55 PM:

" Danny: Good idea!!! I bet we can save money if we use the same plans they used at Three Mile Island! "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 12:01 PM:

" Dan: The power generation output is related to the difference in height between the lake and the output of the dam, and the flowrate. The westside: zero. Northside: not much. The economics have to say that there is enough energy to pay for the facility, and the operators. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 11:57 AM:

" I would expect McNerney to understand the first law of thermodynamics, which places a limit on the amount of energy that can be produced by a solar array or a windmill. Since these are not perpetual motion machines, there is a minimum size requirement which is very very big, and expensive, but not as much as the NAFTA Superhighway. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 2, 2007 11:22 AM:

" Has enyone ever thought about having a nuclear power half-way between Galt, Elk Grove, and Ione? "

Dan wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:51 AM:

" Good thing nobody remembers Three Mile Island. And, while not IN the U.S., that little Chernobyl thingie made the news - but all that has thankfully been forgotten [rolling eyes]. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 2, 2007 10:06 AM:

" Simple: There has never been a death in the US attributed to nuclear power? Try telling that to Karen Silkwood, if you can speak to those beyond the grave. "

Dan wrote on Feb 2, 2007 5:46 AM:

" The fall is not great, but it exists and the potential power generating capacity is lost. How about the small dam that feeds the irrigation canals on the west side of the lake? Again the fall is not large, but if the power is free and it would power even a handfull of houses it is worth collecting, rather than wasting. "

Dan wrote on Feb 2, 2007 5:43 AM:

" Why don't grocery stores and shopping centers get credits to install solar panels that would shade their parking lots? The sunlight falling on a single parking lot the size of Raley's through one summer would be sufficient to power several city blocks. Panels at Safeway would power several blocks. Why are there no generators at the Woodbridge dam? "

Dan wrote on Feb 2, 2007 5:38 AM:

" Instead of seeing wind and solar as novelty "fill-in" power, why not employ them fully and use gas-fired generation plants as "fill-in"? Why are ALL the windmills not working on the Altamont on windy days? Is there a water turbine generating electricity at the base of the water Lodi tower? If not, why not? "

Dan wrote on Feb 2, 2007 5:34 AM:

" Smoke Eater is right. A single power source is not the best idea. Wind, solar and hydro are all available, but people's priorities must be modified. Homeowners gladly spend $40,000 on a granite-counter kitchen remodel but wouldn't think of spending $15,000 on a solar array that would make their electric meter run backwards all day. "

boofugg wrote on Feb 1, 2007 10:02 PM:

" We need a gigantic nation-wide hookah hook up. "

Plain & Simple wrote on Feb 1, 2007 6:07 PM:

" Either get used to breathing in more and more smog or embrace nuclear energy! There is simply NO WAY we are going to make India, China and the rest of civilization meet our self-imposed demands for "clean" energy. There`s NEVER been a death attributed to a nuclear accident in US history!! "

smokeater8 wrote on Feb 1, 2007 1:35 PM:

" What we need is to devise an overall stratedgy to address the enerny needs of this country and to eliminate greehouse gases. I disagree with the author that wind, solar, etc. are not viable sources of power. They are. They are one piece of a very complaex puzzle. Nuclear also has a place...not in the Bay Area...but in other areas. If everyone would look at multiple solutions instead of their favorite pet projects, we could fix this nations energy issues! "

Dan wrote on Feb 1, 2007 11:41 AM:

" Get them to stand on the Altamont Pass and speak to the windmills. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 1, 2007 10:09 AM:

" Its a shame we can't come up with someway to generate power from the verbal flatulence of these anti environment kooks. "

Leonard wrote on Feb 1, 2007 10:07 AM:

" Nuclear power plants in the Bay Area you say??? Brilliant! Which fault do you want to locate them on, the San Andreas or the Hayward? Heck, a lot of locations in the Bay Area are right between both faults. The great thing is that after the Big One hits, we won't even need electricity anymore. Everything will be lit by the gentle green glow of radiation. "

Daniel wrote on Feb 1, 2007 9:26 AM:

" What's wrong with nuclear power? "

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